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針對低薪呢,院長這週要開會討論,我今天手邊就有一些資料,可以跟院長就教一下。 另外我要先補充啊,有41.9萬的人失業,8月的失業率已經提升到3.48。"},{"start":50.143,"end":70.438,"text":"11個月新高而且是連續3個月。 青年失業已經大於平均中高年的失業率是5倍。 這一點我要跟大家來討論一件事情。 今天我要提供一個資料來讓全國的青年來知道如何搶救低薪48000的工作只要辦這張。"},{"start":73.134,"end":73.274,"text":"是的。"},{"start":93.177,"end":120.173,"text":"請問一下這一個回覆是你要給全民的回覆嗎?衛福部給我的回函跟院長上週五給本席回答的根本是做的一套做的又不一套兩者啊我看到真的讓我覺得你們到底有沒有內部溝通啊你跟賴清德黨主席一樣是不是都是講一套做一套衛福部承認誠信祭司來自藥廠"},{"start":121.963,"end":137.353,"text":"更表示只要不處理二等輕的業務內容藥證就沒有關係你不覺得太扯嗎?已經證實他就是藥廠的孩子現在告訴我不處理二等輕就沒關係請問一下他來自藥廠"},{"start":138.51,"end":164.324,"text":"他的爸爸如果有藥廠的關係其他的朋友是藥廠有藥證的需求跟他爸爸請託他的孩子在藥廠藥證裡面就處理這樣的業務他會不會有協助?第二對於沒有這個藥廠的孩子在食藥署裡面的這些藥廠公平嗎?所以你給我的回函說只要這個孩子他不處理二等輕以內的業務就沒有關係是這樣嗎?"},{"start":165.956,"end":178.901,"text":"你的標準有這麼低?報告委員,我想我們有您的來訪的隨行的時候我們有完全去了解到你提的這幾項。部長回答我,這是不是你的回函?"},{"start":181.021,"end":205.529,"text":"你可以認同只要不處理二等親他藥廠的孩子就可以在裡面處理藥證嗎?因為你提的這一位其實在大概103年的以前就在工作我現在就抓出問題你認同嗎?當時他進來的時候不好意思時間有限我只問你認同嗎?不是在掌管這樣的業務啦院長你可以認同嗎?"},{"start":208.442,"end":235.75,"text":"回答不出來﹖不是﹖沒有掌管﹖來我再聽第2個案例﹖主管的業務﹖第2個案例你聽聽看﹖因為部長所說的﹖他在任用的時候﹖他並沒有這樣的身份﹖但是他現在是不是應該避嫌﹖對﹖對﹖民進黨現在在處理臨時案﹖都不用避嫌嗎﹖我認為部長要去了解一下﹖他現在聚在這個位置上面﹖對整個業務的推動﹖是不是會讓人家有不必要的想像﹖就是有不必要的想像﹖如果是這樣的話﹖他的爸爸是江蘇藥廠﹖"},{"start":237.31,"end":265.526,"text":"江蘇藥廠的主要負責人之一捏還是國內的廠商的之一捏來,第二個更扯林興副審查員他的學經歷完全不符合資格院長你知道這件事嗎?徵才資格裡面寫得清清楚楚要醫學、藥學相關的背景碩士學位你們任用給我的回函寫什麼?因為他有20年的國會經驗可以代替"},{"start":266.876,"end":285.477,"text":"這就是認證了我當時所說的你們任用的是所謂的綠色委員的助理來當副審查員。 到現在你還給我亂扯20年的國會經驗可以抵過所謂的碩士學位醫學背景。 我現在告訴你"},{"start":286.138,"end":304.719,"text":"只要有任何人只要他在醫院從事行政、數物甚至是20年以上的打掃經驗是不是就能夠跟醫學相關背景的這些年輕人來找同一份工作?你會不會覺得你的回答太扯這就是因為民進黨黨政給了他這個48000的工作嗎?"},{"start":308.611,"end":325.527,"text":"抱歉這個是黨政無關那你回答我為什麼20年的國會經驗可以在你的徵才資格沒有寫最後所謂的綠燈大開直接讓他任用好 報告委員這位是我有去問一下任用的"},{"start":327.708,"end":352.916,"text":"你講話真的很心虛啊部長你為了一個民進黨的助理講話越來越扯我覺得你有人事壓力既然已經調查完畢本席來看院長你有沒有跟本席手上掌握的資料是一致的第一個"},{"start":353.957,"end":367.336,"text":"請問一下,民進黨立委關說這個案子有沒有問過李明新主秘?有沒有問過?院長、部長有沒有問過?回答我有就沒有。不好意思,請問那個...有立委關說這個人事案有沒有問過?"},{"start":369.177,"end":389.076,"text":"我完全不知道,因為那個你說李明欣這個案的那個已經在103年,100之前的,是106年前。你姓傅審查員,是在今年6月24號所開出的人事任用徵才資格,是在你上任之後,你還在跟我扯103年!對對對,那你說的傅審查員那一位那個是,的確是"},{"start":389.916,"end":412.368,"text":"關切這個人事案的是不是劉姓跟陳姓立委我完全不知道有任何委員那個因為這個就是有署有署裡面就不敢承認啦來我再問第二個我第二個資料我保證我們都完全不知道林姓副審查員在面試的時候有一位非公職身份的人待在現場督導這一場面試那個人是誰你知不知道"},{"start":418.713,"end":443.895,"text":"因為他的資料越來越多,你再不承認。在他工作的那個署,那就有那一邊接,我這一邊沒有接。 也不知道。完全不知道。院長,第三個最後一個問題,回答我。七科組組長許昭凱,面試完以後,都資格不符。為什麼現在有人更改了這個許組長的批示?"},{"start":446.581,"end":454.89,"text":"回答我為什麼在面試官已經批示資格不符 現在去更改了這個批示"},{"start":458.995,"end":478.158,"text":"就是有這個現象我告訴你資格不符已經很明確你現在還給我回函說20年的國會經驗可以頂替一切你對得起全國人民你對得起全國青年嗎失業率越來越高青年求職不易我們要的是一個公平公正公開的一個有這麼難嗎院長部長回我回答我你要再鴉雀無聲了全國百姓都在看"},{"start":488.595,"end":488.755,"text":"合理嗎?"},{"start":518.936,"end":522.293,"text":"院長,你已經鴉雀無聲很久了,回答我好不好?"},{"start":523.484,"end":550.394,"text":"上次委員有垂詢到這樣的議題當時我是說請衛福部是不是在一個禮拜你要給你給你答覆他給你的答覆如果承認你手中所說的是這樣的內容那與事實是否有出入或是相符我要請部長再重新調查重新瞭解那這個調查不僅要答覆給後續相關的事務不僅要答覆給委員也要讓我清楚"},{"start":550.851,"end":577.145,"text":"另外,我要請問輸出役的問題。 上次我有提到三、五。 院長7月9號到現在已經100多天了。 有將近215萬袋的輸出役已經進入到各個醫療機構。 我想問你,生理食鹽水非屬必要藥品,所以就醫藥事法第55條,藥物樣品正品管理第二條第7款所稱的, 申請公共安全公共衛生重大災害使用者,"},{"start":577.645,"end":579.667,"text":"公共安全、公共衛生、重大災害"},{"start":599.861,"end":626.427,"text":"無從選擇啊都是相同的重要的事情啊都是相同重要我要跟院長說啊這個其實就是答不出來不好意思三者全無啊我們要看到到底為什麼三者全無公共安全重大災害都不對啊公共衛生是指申請預防整治如寄生蟲感染傳染性疾病等公共衛生需要請問這有傳染病嗎"},{"start":627.327,"end":652.997,"text":"公共安全、公共衛生怎麼可能是公共衛生呢?輸出疫在台灣有傳染性的疾病嗎?重大災害是什麼災害?委員給這三個選項設定前提當然會有輕重緩急之分如果沒有設定前提當然是重要的我給你最新的報告食藥署給我的答案這三個都不是是類推適用三者都不成立啊所以呢他們成立了一個新的說法"},{"start":653.757,"end":670.042,"text":"叫做類推適用,你們換了一個更扯的說法,原本依據藥事法第55條,現在類推適用是藥事法第27-2,必要藥品的短缺通報等登錄及專案核准製造輸入的一個辦法來做一個辦理。"},{"start":670.603,"end":683.718,"text":"來做一個依據 院長藥品只有分必要藥品跟非必要藥品但你們自創了一個法律用語臨床上具急迫必要性所以類推適用藥事法27條之二 院長什麼是類推適用"},{"start":684.733,"end":686.915,"text":"你們7月9日我質詢完,7月10日開記者會,要打我的臉"},{"start":706.394,"end":732.411,"text":"告訴大家是用前面三個公共安全、公共衛生或者是動大災害。好,現在私底下給我回函。食藥署並沒有官方的宣布並沒有發新聞稿跟社會大眾來報告,只有回復本席。全台灣只有食藥署跟我知道。是怕被大眾質疑你們現在改用了類推適用嗎?院長,類推適用只是適用於法律的漏洞。"},{"start":733.473,"end":734.174,"text":"你又在胡扯"},{"start":759.022,"end":787.246,"text":"你根本都在胡扯嘛!藥事法竟然將藥品分為必要藥品跟非必要藥品其中在衛福部明令公告的必要藥品當中清單裡面內的必要藥品就是在無法繼續製造輸入或不足供應的時候才可以現在其製造或輸入才可以排除第39條的一個限制適用藥事法規定27條之二第三項我們現在衛福部所訂定的一個辦法之一"},{"start":787.944,"end":803.47,"text":"而非必要藥品則不容許例外。 不容許例外!你們7月10號的記者會食藥署告訴大家生理食鹽水非必要之藥品不容許例外啊!"},{"start":804.807,"end":832.72,"text":"所以非屬必要的藥品的清單、生理食鹽水當然更不容許例外的產生我們的法就有明確有意的去做區分了各自來排除用來保障人民的安全當然非法律漏洞的時候自不得類推適用現在哪裡有漏洞所以我要送給院長三個扯無法源依據扯改類推適用扯不挺本土廠扯"},{"start":833.649,"end":855.924,"text":"你們那一天還跟我講更扯的是什麼沒有藥害基金的賠償使用生理食鹽水如果產生生命安全之疑慮要做什麼消保法來求償你以為今天用生理食鹽水是在逛百貨公司喔有沒有基點有沒有滿千送百消保法"},{"start":857.732,"end":858.393,"text":"講這什麼話?"},{"start":858.393,"end":874.751,"text":"院長你能夠同意用生理食鹽水產生問題嚴重影響到人民、國人安全的時候,用消防法嗎?是的,這個生理食鹽水是特定的需求的時候才會使用,它當然跟一般的消費是不一樣的。那基於健康的這個要求,我覺得"},{"start":875.885,"end":901.356,"text":"有一定程度的要求他的安全是絕對必要的。藥害基金確定不配,食藥署確定說要用消保法,太扯了。最後剩1分鐘我要告訴你,不挺本土場。我們去查過臺灣大總製藥、越南大總製藥、日本大總製藥,為什麼你們不給臺灣大總製藥來處理?第一,你們給予的健保支付的相對應根本不夠價格。"},{"start":902.981,"end":905.122,"text":"我記者會會繼續跟你追"},{"start":962.981,"end":970.087,"text":"法定人數不足"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:47:02.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:47:03.090000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長，有請卓院長。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T14:47:03.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:47:03.770000+08:00","text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:47:03.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:47:13.593000+08:00","text":"邱部長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T14:47:13.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:47:13.893000+08:00","text":"麻煩請衛福部長備詢。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:47:13.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:47:13.913000+08:00","text":"羅委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:47:13.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:47:14.153000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:47:30.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:47:35.911000+08:00","text":"院長，勞動部說月薪3.1萬屬於低薪，全國約有120萬名勞工。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:47:36.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:47:42.616000+08:00","text":"針對低薪院長這週要開會討論，我今天手邊就有些資料可以跟院長就教一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:47:43.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:47:53.704000+08:00","text":"另外，我要先補充，有41.9萬的人失業，8月的失業率已經提升到3.48，是11個月來的新高，而且是連續3個月。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:47:54.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:48:09.176000+08:00","text":"青年失業已經大於平均中高齡失業率的5倍，這一點我要跟大家來討論一件事情，今天我要提供一個資料讓全國的青年知道，如何搶救低薪？","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:48:09.176000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:48:21.676500+08:00","text":"4萬8的工作只要辦這張，找工作，辦「民進黨黨證」，辦這張，就有辦法找到4萬8的工作。","quality":0.258},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:48:21.676500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:48:34.177000+08:00","text":"院長，針對食藥署的人事案，你說倘若任用的資格不符標準，絕對是違法，以及如果跟首長有近親關係，絕對要避免，你有沒有說過？是的。","quality":0.037},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:48:34.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:48:38.120000+08:00","text":"請問一下，這一個回復是你要給全民的回復嗎？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:48:38.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:48:52.848000+08:00","text":"衛福部給我的回函，跟院長上週五回答本席的，根本是說的一套，做的又不同套，兩者，我看到真的讓我覺得你們到底有沒有內部溝通啊？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:48:53.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:48:57.571000+08:00","text":"你跟賴清德黨主席一樣，是不是都是講一套做一套？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:48:58.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:49:11.549000+08:00","text":"衛福部承認陳姓技師來自藥廠，更表示只要不處理二等親以內的業務內容、藥證，就沒有關係，你不覺得太扯嗎？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:49:11.549000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:49:12.549000+08:00","text":"請衛福部說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:49:11.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:49:31.297000+08:00","text":"已經證實他就是藥廠的孩子，現在告訴我不處理二等親以內的業務就沒關係，請問一下，他來自藥廠，他的爸爸如果有藥廠的關係，其他的朋友是藥廠的，有藥證的需求，跟他爸爸請託，他的孩子在裡面就在處理藥廠、藥證這樣的業務，他會不會協助？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:49:32.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:49:39.061000+08:00","text":"第二，對於沒有孩子在食藥署裡面的這些藥廠公平嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:49:39.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:49:45.324000+08:00","text":"你給我的回函說，只要這個孩子不處理二等親以內的業務就沒有關係，是這樣嗎？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:49:46.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:49:48.717000+08:00","text":"你的標準有這麼低？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:49:49.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:49:58+08:00","text":"報告委員，我想您垂詢的時候，我們有完全去了解到你提的……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:49:58.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:49:59.881000+08:00","text":"部長，回答我，這是不是你的回函？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:02.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:06.963000+08:00","text":"你可以認同只要不處理二等親，藥廠的孩子就可以在裡面處理藥證嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:06.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:12.604000+08:00","text":"因為你提的這一位其實在大概103年以前就……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:13.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:18.606000+08:00","text":"我不想聽前因後果，我現在就抓出問題，你認同嗎？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:18.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:19.507000+08:00","text":"因為當時他進來的時候……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:20.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:23.108000+08:00","text":"不好意思，時間有限，我只問你認同嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:23.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:25.368000+08:00","text":"不是在掌管這樣的業務。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:25.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:26.529000+08:00","text":"院長，你可以認同嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:29.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:30.402000+08:00","text":"回答不出來？不是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:30.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:33.783000+08:00","text":"沒有掌管……他主管的業務……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:33.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:34.864000+08:00","text":"第二個案例你聽聽……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:35.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:39.345000+08:00","text":"如部長所說的，他在任用的時候，他並沒有這樣的身分……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:40.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:42.466000+08:00","text":"但是他現在是不是應該避嫌？對、對……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:42.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:45.086000+08:00","text":"民進黨現在處理人事案都不用避嫌嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:45.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:53.309000+08:00","text":"我認為部長要去了解一下，他現在既然在這個位置上，面對整個業務的推動，是不是會讓人家有不必要的想像……","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:53.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:54.729000+08:00","text":"就是有不必要的想像嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:54.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:50:55.729000+08:00","text":"如果是這樣的話，那內部很多人……","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:50:55.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:51:03.973000+08:00","text":"他的爸爸是江蘇藥廠的主要負責人之一，還是國內的廠商之一耶！","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:51:03.973000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:51:06.455000+08:00","text":"很多的工作是需要很多人來做的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:51:06.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:51:14.059000+08:00","text":"來，第二個更扯，林姓副審查員他的學經歷完全不符合資格，院長，你知道這件事嗎？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:51:14.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:51:22.924000+08:00","text":"徵才資格裡面寫得清清楚楚，要醫學、藥學相關的背景、碩士學位，你們任用，給我的回函寫什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:51:22.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:51:26.506000+08:00","text":"因為他有20年的國會經驗可以代替。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:51:27.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:51:45.136000+08:00","text":"這就是認證了我當時所說的，你們任用的是所謂的綠色委員的助理來當副審查員，到現在你還給我亂扯20年的國會經驗，可以抵過所謂的碩士學位、醫學背景！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:51:45.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:52:00.954000+08:00","text":"我現在告訴你，只要有任何人在醫院從事行政庶務，甚至是20年以上的打掃經驗，是不是就能夠跟醫學相關背景的這些年輕人來找同一份工作？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:52:01.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:52:03.556000+08:00","text":"你會不會覺得你的回答太扯？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:52:04.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:52:05.719000+08:00","text":"這就是因為民進黨黨證給了他這個4萬8的工作嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:52:05.719000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:52:09.611000+08:00","text":"部長、院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:52:09.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:52:11.593000+08:00","text":"抱歉，這個跟黨證無關。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:52:11.593000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:52:12.593000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我回答一下……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:52:11.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:52:21.242000+08:00","text":"那你回答我，為什麼20年的國會經驗可以沒有寫在你的徵才資格，最後所謂的綠燈大開，直接讓他任用？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:52:21.242000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:52:28.708000+08:00","text":"好，報告委員，我有去問一下任用這一位的署，他們當時徵才的時候當然是要選擇最適當的，後來因為這一位滿有經驗，因為就是在國會的一個……","quality":0.241},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:52:28.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:52:41.632000+08:00","text":"不好意思，你講話真的很心虛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:52:43.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:52:47.094000+08:00","text":"部長，你為了一個民進黨的助理，講話越來越扯，我覺得你有人事壓力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:52:47.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:01.166000+08:00","text":"既然已經調查完畢，本席來看院長你有沒有跟本席手上掌握的資料是一致的，第一個，請問一下，民進黨立委關說這個案子有沒有問過李明鑫主秘，有沒有問過？","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:01.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:02.688000+08:00","text":"院長、部長，有沒有問過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:02.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:03.469000+08:00","text":"回答我有還是沒有？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:04.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:05.111000+08:00","text":"不好意思，請問……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:06.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:08.336000+08:00","text":"有立委關說這個人事案，有沒有問過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:10.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:10.658000+08:00","text":"我完全不知道……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:10.658000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:11.658000+08:00","text":"不清楚？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:10.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:15.923000+08:00","text":"因為你說李明鑫那案已經在103年之前……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:17.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:26.692000+08:00","text":"林姓副審查員是在今年6月24號所開出的人事任用徵才資格，是在你上任之後，你還在跟我扯103年！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:27.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:30.055000+08:00","text":"對、對、對，你說的副審查委員那一位的確是……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:30.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:33.938000+08:00","text":"關切這個人事案的是不是劉姓跟陳姓立委？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:34.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:40.721000+08:00","text":"我完全不知道有任何委員……因為這個就是由署裡面……","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:40.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:41.542000+08:00","text":"你不敢承認啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:42.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:43.103000+08:00","text":"來，我再問第二個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:44.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:45.264000+08:00","text":"我保證我們都完全不知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:45.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:52.248000+08:00","text":"林姓副審查員在面試的時候，有一位非公職身分的人待在現場督導這一場面試，那個人是誰？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:52.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:53.348000+08:00","text":"你知不知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:53:59.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:53:59.933000+08:00","text":"因為他……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:00.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:03.076000+08:00","text":"資料越來越多，你再不承認！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:03.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:08.381000+08:00","text":"在他工作的那個署，就由那邊……我這邊沒有……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:09.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:09.301000+08:00","text":"你不知道？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:09.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:10.462000+08:00","text":"完全不知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:11.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:24.875000+08:00","text":"院長，第三個，最後一個問題，回答我，企科組組長許朝凱面試完以後勾資格不符，為什麼現在有人更改了這個許組長的批示？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:27.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:27.921000+08:00","text":"回答我！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:27.921000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:30.844000+08:00","text":"這個我們去……如果……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:30.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:35.870000+08:00","text":"為什麼面試官已經批示資格不符，現在去更改了這個批示？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:35.870000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:39.995000+08:00","text":"如果有這個現象，我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:39.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:40.795000+08:00","text":"就是有這個現象！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:41.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:52.717000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，資格不符已經很明確，你現在還給我回函說20年的國會經驗可以頂替一切，你對得起全國人民、你對得起全國青年嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:52.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:58.458000+08:00","text":"失業率越來越高，青年求職不易，我們要的是一個公平、公正、公開有這麼難嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:58.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:58.578000+08:00","text":"院長、部長，回答我。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:58.578000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:59.578000+08:00","text":"我們絕對是公開徵選啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:58.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:54:59.138000+08:00","text":"不要再鴉雀無聲了，全國百姓都在看！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:54:59.138000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:55:39.936000+08:00","text":"本席要詢問的很簡單，社會的弱勢，沒有良好背景家庭的孩子，在求職上能夠有一個公平，不要輸在起跑點，你們告訴全國百姓青年，認真讀書也有機會出頭天，但是今天認真讀書符合相關徵才資格，就因為忘記辦理黨證，他輸在起跑點，變成這一場求職的「陪讀」，合理嗎？","quality":0.028},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:55:39.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:55:43.273000+08:00","text":"院長，你已經鴉雀無聲很久了，回答我好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:55:44.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:56:05.192000+08:00","text":"上次委員有垂詢到這樣的議題，當時我說請衛福部是不是在一個禮拜以內要給您答復，他給您的答復如果誠如你手中所說是這樣的內容，與事實是否有出入或是相符，我要請部長再重新調查、重新瞭解。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:56:06.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:56:08.013000+08:00","text":"至於這個調查，我們會儘量答復給……","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:56:08.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:56:09.453000+08:00","text":"我們會持續追蹤後續相關的事務。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:56:09.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:56:11.374000+08:00","text":"不僅要答復給委員，也要讓我清楚。是。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:56:11.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:56:25.658000+08:00","text":"另外，我要請問輸出液的問題，上次我有提到「三無」，院長，7月9號到現在已經一百多天了，有將近215萬袋的輸出液已經進入到各個醫療機構。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:56:25.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:56:35.083000+08:00","text":"我想問你，生理食鹽水非屬必要藥品，所以就依藥事法第五十五條及藥物樣品贈品管理辦法第二條第七款所稱的「申請供公共安全或公共衛生或重大災害之用者」之依據予以核准，這個法律論述還高掛在食藥署的官網。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:56:35.083000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:56:36.083000+08:00","text":"院長，我想請問一下，公共安全、公共衛生以及重大災害這三個，請院長三選一，請問是符合哪一項？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:56:35.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:57:03.842000+08:00","text":"公共安全、公共衛生、重大災害這無從選擇啊，都是相同重要的事情。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:57:04.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:57:11.883000+08:00","text":"都是相同重要，我要跟院長說，這個其實就是答不出來，不好意思，三者全無啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:57:12.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:57:15.044000+08:00","text":"我們要看到底為什麼三者全無？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:57:15.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:57:27.427000+08:00","text":"公共安全、重大災害都不對啊，公共衛生是指申請預防整治，如寄生蟲感染、傳染性疾病等公共衛生需要，請問這有傳染病嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:57:28.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:57:31.268000+08:00","text":"公共安全、公共衛生怎麼可能是公共衛生呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:57:31.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:57:35.190000+08:00","text":"輸出液在臺灣有傳染性的疾病嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:57:35.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:57:36.330000+08:00","text":"重大災害是什麼災害？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:57:36.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:57:42.592000+08:00","text":"委員給這三個選項有設定前提，那當然會有輕重緩急之分，如果沒有設定前提，當然是重要的。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:57:42.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:57:57.918000+08:00","text":"院長，我給你最新的報告，食藥署給我的答案這三個都不是，是「類推適用」，三者都不成立，所以他們成立了一個新的說法，叫做「類推適用」，你們換了一個更扯的說法。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:57:58.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:58:12.704000+08:00","text":"原本依據藥事法第五十五條，現在類推適用藥事法第二十七條之二必要藥品的短缺通報等登錄及專案核准製造輸入的一個辦法，用這個來辦理，來做一個依據。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:58:12.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:58:24.697000+08:00","text":"院長，藥品只有分必要藥品跟非必要藥品，但你們自創一個法律用語，臨床上具急迫必要性，所以類推適用藥事法第二十七條之二，院長，什麼是類推適用？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T14:58:24.697000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:58:25.697000+08:00","text":"部長答復一下，你們的答復是什麼內容？","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:58:25.697000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:58:26.697000+08:00","text":"首先跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:58:26.697000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:58:27.697000+08:00","text":"什麼是類推適用？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:58:27.697000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:58:28.697000+08:00","text":"類推適用適法性，其實在相關的法令裡面，我們也經過相關法律的諮詢，是沒有問題的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:58:26.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:58:53.678000+08:00","text":"7月9號我質詢完，你們7月10號開記者會要打我的臉，告訴大家是用前面三個公共安全、公共衛生或者是重大災害，但現在呢？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:58:54.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:59:10.269000+08:00","text":"私底下給我回函，食藥署並沒有官方的宣布，並沒有發新聞稿跟社會大眾來報告，只有回復本席，全臺灣只有食藥署跟我知道，這是怕被大眾質疑你們現在改用了類推適用嗎？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:59:10.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:59:13.391000+08:00","text":"院長，類推適用只適用於法律的漏洞存在的時候，我想問你，請問藥事法有漏洞嗎？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:59:13.391000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:59:14.391000+08:00","text":"是在哪一條？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:59:14.391000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:59:15.391000+08:00","text":"第五十五條、第二十七條之二還是第三十九條？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:59:15.391000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:59:16.391000+08:00","text":"部長，你可以救他。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T14:59:16.391000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T14:59:17.391000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們應該是用第六十二條，我看一下……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:59:14.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T14:59:41.383000+08:00","text":"你又在胡扯，你又在胡扯，你根本都在胡扯嘛！","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T14:59:42.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:00:05.924000+08:00","text":"藥事法既然將藥品分為必要藥品跟非必要藥品，其中在衛福部明令公告的必要藥品當中，清單內的必要藥品，就是在無法繼續製造輸入或不足供應的時候才可以排除第三十九條的限制，適用藥事法規定的第二十七條之二第三項。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:00:06.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:00:12.105000+08:00","text":"現在衛福部所訂定的辦法之一，非必要藥品則不容許例外。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:00:15.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:00:24.190000+08:00","text":"你們7月10號的記者會，食藥署告訴大家，生理食鹽水非必要之藥品，不容許例外。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:00:25.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:00:38.273000+08:00","text":"所以非屬必要藥品的清單──生理食鹽水當然更不容許例外的產生；我們的法就明確、有意的去做區分、各自排除，用來保障人民的安全。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:00:39.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:00:44.996000+08:00","text":"當然，非法律漏洞時，自不得類推適用，現在哪裡有漏洞？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:00:45.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:00:48.277000+08:00","text":"所以我要送給院長三個「扯」，無法源依據，扯！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:00:49.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:00:50.698000+08:00","text":"改類推適用，扯！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:00:51.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:00:53.700000+08:00","text":"不挺本土廠，扯！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:00:54.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:00:58.291000+08:00","text":"你們那天還跟我講了更扯的是什麼？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:00:58.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:01:06.757000+08:00","text":"沒有藥害基金的賠償，使用生理食鹽水如果產生生命安全之疑慮，要做什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:01:06.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:01:09.259000+08:00","text":"依消保法來求償。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:01:09.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:01:11.980000+08:00","text":"你以為今天用生理食鹽水是在逛百貨公司？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:01:12.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:01:14.002000+08:00","text":"有沒有積點？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:01:14.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:01:15.122000+08:00","text":"有沒有滿千送百？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:01:16.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:01:16.904000+08:00","text":"用消保法！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:01:18.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:01:19.393000+08:00","text":"講這什麼話！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:01:19.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:01:26.461000+08:00","text":"院長，你能夠同意使用生理食鹽水產生問題、嚴重影響到國人安全的時候用消保法嗎？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T15:01:26.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:01:40.126000+08:00","text":"是的，生理食鹽水是特定需求時才會使用，當然跟一般消費是不一樣的，基於健康的要求，我覺得一定程度要求它的安全是絕對必要的。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:01:40.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:01:46.049000+08:00","text":"藥害基金確定不賠，食藥署確定要用消保法，太扯了！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:01:46.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:01:57.194000+08:00","text":"最後剩1分鐘，我要告訴你，不挺本土廠，我們去查過臺灣大塚製藥、越南大塚製藥、日本大塚製藥，為什麼你們不給臺灣大塚製藥來處理？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:01:57.194000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:01:58.890750+08:00","text":"你們給予的相對應的健保支付根本不夠價格，賠錢的生意沒有人做，砍頭生意有人做，但是你們卻花大筆的錢到越南進口，為什麼？","quality":0.283},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:01:58.890750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:02:00.587500+08:00","text":"7家進口商裡面有一家叫做韋淳，這家韋淳進口商還擁有立法院的出入證，本席就曾經看過啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:02:00.587500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:02:02.284250+08:00","text":"這中間到底有什麼貓膩？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:02:02.284250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:02:03.981000+08:00","text":"說清楚、講明白！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:02:03.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:02:06.102000+08:00","text":"我記者會會再繼續跟你追。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T15:02:06.602000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:02:27.744857+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們在處理的過程絕對沒有任何……完全是考慮怎麼樣趕快來治療人民的健康，而且儘量尋求法律的立足點，請委員放心，如果委員有疑惑，我們很願意誠懇的跟委員說明。好。","quality":0.014},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T15:02:28.044857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:02:37.759143+08:00","text":"我會請衛福部公開向社會說明這件事情，不要引起誤會，如果有必要，要全力的澄清。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:02:38.059143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:02:43.202000+08:00","text":"我代表全國人民拜託，這件事情一定要慎查。","quality":0.056},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T15:02:43.502000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:02:44.644857+08:00","text":"一定要的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2024-10-22T15:02:44.944857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:02:49.516286+08:00","text":"不只是人事、不只是藥害基金的賠償。是。","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T15:02:49.816286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:02:57.244857+08:00","text":"好，謝謝羅廷瑋委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T15:02:57.544857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:03:08.687714+08:00","text":"跟院會報告，現在在我們二樓議場旁聽貴賓席的是美國國會助理訪問團，歡迎參觀我們立法院。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T15:03:08.987714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:03:13.559143+08:00","text":"Welcome everybody！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T15:03:13.859143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:03:15.859143+08:00","text":"Welcome！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T15:03:16.159143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:03:26.444857+08:00","text":"接下來登記第6號范雲委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員范雲書面質詢","start":"2024-10-22T15:03:26.744857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:03:59.602000+08:00","text":"本院委員范雲，就現行第一線接觸兒少之工作者管制不足，造成曾有侵害兒少權益相關事件之工作者或不熟稔兒童權利之工作者，仍能持續接觸兒少並造成其傷害之現況；要求衛生福利部評估研議於《兒童及少年福利與權益保障法》修法中納入「兒少工作證」相關規定與執行機制。","quality":0.017},{"speaker":"委員范雲書面質詢","start":"2024-10-22T15:03:59.902000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:04:02.473429+08:00","text":"特向行政院提出質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員范雲書面質詢","start":"2024-10-22T15:04:02.773429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:05:05.630571+08:00","text":"一、我國現有針對第一線接觸兒少之工作者相關管制，以各主管機關及相關法規之「不適任資料庫」為主軸，惟查資料庫雖包括「教育部不適任教育人員資料庫」、「涉性別事件之學校不適任人員資料庫」、「短期補習班不適任人員資料庫」、「兒童課後照顧服務不適任人員資料庫」、「全國教保服務機構不適任人員資料庫」、「兒少性剝削或性騷擾防治受行政處罰者之資料庫」等多種，然仍有未能建置資料庫或法規有所不及之範疇，如夏令營、家長合資自聘之運動教練、各單位主辦之兒少講座活動等，其中接觸兒少之工作者均未能有任何檢核或把關機制。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員范雲書面質詢","start":"2024-10-22T15:05:05.930571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:05:27.930571+08:00","text":"二、本席曾於今（113）年6月11日總質詢行政院，請卓榮泰院長發揮「創新行動內閣」的創新精神，參考澳洲行之有年的「兒童工作證」制度，要求從事兒少工作者主動提出證明，使主辦單位或家長得以知悉。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員范雲書面質詢","start":"2024-10-22T15:05:28.230571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:05:41.087714+08:00","text":"當時卓院長認同該議題重要性，後續由教育部於8月率先辦理「從事兒少工作人員認識兒少權利增能研習計畫」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員范雲書面質詢","start":"2024-10-22T15:05:41.387714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:05:57.673429+08:00","text":"三、惟相關研習增能僅係「兒少工作證」制度之其中一部分，關鍵點仍是評估研議發證規範、機制建置、與現有各不適任資料庫競合關係等面向。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員范雲書面質詢","start":"2024-10-22T15:05:57.973429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:06:16.544857+08:00","text":"考量實施該制度宜有明確法源依據較為妥適，並因涉及所有兒少權益，宜將相關條文制定於現正由衛生福利部研修之《兒童及少年福利與權益保障法》草案中。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員范雲書面質詢","start":"2024-10-22T15:06:16.844857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:06:37.702000+08:00","text":"四、爰請行政院會同衛生福利部相關單位，著手進行評估及研議工作；並請考量於《兒童及少年福利與權益保障法》修正草案尚未修正前，先以行政獎勵或補助等方式進行試辦計畫。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員范雲書面質詢","start":"2024-10-22T15:06:38.002000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:06:45.144857+08:00","text":"五、綜上，前開說明及相關事項，敬請於一個月內回覆書面報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T15:06:45.444857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:06:50.016286+08:00","text":"再接下來，請登記第7位李彥秀委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":68,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（14時47分）好，謝謝院長，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["羅委員廷瑋：邱部長，謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩請衛福部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：羅委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長好。院長，勞動部說月薪3.1萬屬於低薪，全國約有120萬名勞工。針對低薪院長這週要開會討論，我今天手邊就有些資料可以跟院長就教一下。另外，我要先補充，有41.9萬的人失業，8月的失業率已經提升到3.48，是11個月來的新高，而且是連續3個月。青年失業已經大於平均中高齡失業率的5倍，這一點我要跟大家來討論一件事情，今天我要提供一個資料讓全國的青年知道，如何搶救低薪？4萬8的工作只要辦這張，找工作，辦「民進黨黨證」，辦這張，就有辦法找到4萬8的工作。","院長，針對食藥署的人事案，你說倘若任用的資格不符標準，絕對是違法，以及如果跟首長有近親關係，絕對要避免，你有沒有說過？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：請問一下，這一個回復是你要給全民的回復嗎？衛福部給我的回函，跟院長上週五回答本席的，根本是說的一套，做的又不同套，兩者，我看到真的讓我覺得你們到底有沒有內部溝通啊？你跟賴清德黨主席一樣，是不是都是講一套做一套？衛福部承認陳姓技師來自藥廠，更表示只要不處理二等親以內的業務內容、藥證，就沒有關係，你不覺得太扯嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：請衛福部說明。"],["羅委員廷瑋：已經證實他就是藥廠的孩子，現在告訴我不處理二等親以內的業務就沒關係，請問一下，他來自藥廠，他的爸爸如果有藥廠的關係，其他的朋友是藥廠的，有藥證的需求，跟他爸爸請託，他的孩子在裡面就在處理藥廠、藥證這樣的業務，他會不會協助？第二，對於沒有孩子在食藥署裡面的這些藥廠公平嗎？你給我的回函說，只要這個孩子不處理二等親以內的業務就沒有關係，是這樣嗎？你的標準有這麼低？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我想您垂詢的時候，我們有完全去了解到你提的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，回答我，這是不是你的回函？你可以認同只要不處理二等親，藥廠的孩子就可以在裡面處理藥證嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：因為你提的這一位其實在大概103年以前就……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我不想聽前因後果，我現在就抓出問題，你認同嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：因為當時他進來的時候……"],["羅委員廷瑋：不好意思，時間有限，我只問你認同嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：不是在掌管這樣的業務。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，你可以認同嗎？回答不出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是……"],["邱部長泰源：沒有掌管……他主管的業務……"],["羅委員廷瑋：第二個案例你聽聽……"],["卓院長榮泰：如部長所說的，他在任用的時候，他並沒有這樣的身分……"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是他現在是不是應該避嫌？"],["卓院長榮泰：對、對……"],["羅委員廷瑋：民進黨現在處理人事案都不用避嫌嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為部長要去了解一下，他現在既然在這個位置上，面對整個業務的推動，是不是會讓人家有不必要的想像……"],["羅委員廷瑋：就是有不必要的想像嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：如果是這樣的話，那內部很多人……"],["羅委員廷瑋：他的爸爸是江蘇藥廠的主要負責人之一，還是國內的廠商之一耶！"],["卓院長榮泰：很多的工作是需要很多人來做的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：來，第二個更扯，林姓副審查員他的學經歷完全不符合資格，院長，你知道這件事嗎？徵才資格裡面寫得清清楚楚，要醫學、藥學相關的背景、碩士學位，你們任用，給我的回函寫什麼？因為他有20年的國會經驗可以代替。這就是認證了我當時所說的，你們任用的是所謂的綠色委員的助理來當副審查員，到現在你還給我亂扯20年的國會經驗，可以抵過所謂的碩士學位、醫學背景！我現在告訴你，只要有任何人在醫院從事行政庶務，甚至是20年以上的打掃經驗，是不是就能夠跟醫學相關背景的這些年輕人來找同一份工作？你會不會覺得你的回答太扯？這就是因為民進黨黨證給了他這個4萬8的工作嗎？部長、院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：抱歉，這個跟黨證無關。"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我回答一下……"],["羅委員廷瑋：那你回答我，為什麼20年的國會經驗可以沒有寫在你的徵才資格，最後所謂的綠燈大開，直接讓他任用？"],["邱部長泰源：好，報告委員，我有去問一下任用這一位的署，他們當時徵才的時候當然是要選擇最適當的，後來因為這一位滿有經驗，因為就是在國會的一個……"],["羅委員廷瑋：不好意思，你講話真的很心虛！部長，你為了一個民進黨的助理，講話越來越扯，我覺得你有人事壓力。既然已經調查完畢，本席來看院長你有沒有跟本席手上掌握的資料是一致的，第一個，請問一下，民進黨立委關說這個案子有沒有問過李明鑫主秘，有沒有問過？院長、部長，有沒有問過？回答我有還是沒有？"],["邱部長泰源：不好意思，請問……"],["羅委員廷瑋：有立委關說這個人事案，有沒有問過？"],["邱部長泰源：我完全不知道……"],["羅委員廷瑋：不清楚？"],["邱部長泰源：因為你說李明鑫那案已經在103年之前……"],["羅委員廷瑋：林姓副審查員是在今年6月24號所開出的人事任用徵才資格，是在你上任之後，你還在跟我扯103年！"],["邱部長泰源：對、對、對，你說的副審查委員那一位的確是……"],["羅委員廷瑋：關切這個人事案的是不是劉姓跟陳姓立委？"],["邱部長泰源：我完全不知道有任何委員……因為這個就是由署裡面……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你不敢承認啦！來，我再問第二個……"],["邱部長泰源：我保證我們都完全不知道。"],["羅委員廷瑋：林姓副審查員在面試的時候，有一位非公職身分的人待在現場督導這一場面試，那個人是誰？你知不知道？"],["邱部長泰源：因為他……"],["羅委員廷瑋：資料越來越多，你再不承認！"],["邱部長泰源：在他工作的那個署，就由那邊……我這邊沒有……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你不知道？"],["邱部長泰源：完全不知道。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，第三個，最後一個問題，回答我，企科組組長許朝凱面試完以後勾資格不符，為什麼現在有人更改了這個許組長的批示？回答我！"],["邱部長泰源：這個我們去……如果……"],["羅委員廷瑋：為什麼面試官已經批示資格不符，現在去更改了這個批示？"],["邱部長泰源：如果有這個現象，我們……"],["羅委員廷瑋：就是有這個現象！我告訴你，資格不符已經很明確，你現在還給我回函說20年的國會經驗可以頂替一切，你對得起全國人民、你對得起全國青年嗎？失業率越來越高，青年求職不易，我們要的是一個公平、公正、公開有這麼難嗎？院長、部長，回答我。"],["邱部長泰源：我們絕對是公開徵選啦！"],["羅委員廷瑋：不要再鴉雀無聲了，全國百姓都在看！本席要詢問的很簡單，社會的弱勢，沒有良好背景家庭的孩子，在求職上能夠有一個公平，不要輸在起跑點，你們告訴全國百姓青年，認真讀書也有機會出頭天，但是今天認真讀書符合相關徵才資格，就因為忘記辦理黨證，他輸在起跑點，變成這一場求職的「陪讀」，合理嗎？院長，你已經鴉雀無聲很久了，回答我好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：上次委員有垂詢到這樣的議題，當時我說請衛福部是不是在一個禮拜以內要給您答復，他給您的答復如果誠如你手中所說是這樣的內容，與事實是否有出入或是相符，我要請部長再重新調查、重新瞭解。至於這個調查，我們會儘量答復給……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們會持續追蹤後續相關的事務。"],["卓院長榮泰：不僅要答復給委員，也要讓我清楚。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：另外，我要請問輸出液的問題，上次我有提到「三無」，院長，7月9號到現在已經一百多天了，有將近215萬袋的輸出液已經進入到各個醫療機構。我想問你，生理食鹽水非屬必要藥品，所以就依藥事法第五十五條及藥物樣品贈品管理辦法第二條第七款所稱的「申請供公共安全或公共衛生或重大災害之用者」之依據予以核准，這個法律論述還高掛在食藥署的官網。院長，我想請問一下，公共安全、公共衛生以及重大災害這三個，請院長三選一，請問是符合哪一項？"],["卓院長榮泰：公共安全、公共衛生、重大災害這無從選擇啊，都是相同重要的事情。"],["羅委員廷瑋：都是相同重要，我要跟院長說，這個其實就是答不出來，不好意思，三者全無啊！我們要看到底為什麼三者全無？公共安全、重大災害都不對啊，公共衛生是指申請預防整治，如寄生蟲感染、傳染性疾病等公共衛生需要，請問這有傳染病嗎？公共安全、公共衛生怎麼可能是公共衛生呢？輸出液在臺灣有傳染性的疾病嗎？重大災害是什麼災害？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員給這三個選項有設定前提，那當然會有輕重緩急之分，如果沒有設定前提，當然是重要的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，我給你最新的報告，食藥署給我的答案這三個都不是，是「類推適用」，三者都不成立，所以他們成立了一個新的說法，叫做「類推適用」，你們換了一個更扯的說法。原本依據藥事法第五十五條，現在類推適用藥事法第二十七條之二必要藥品的短缺通報等登錄及專案核准製造輸入的一個辦法，用這個來辦理，來做一個依據。","院長，藥品只有分必要藥品跟非必要藥品，但你們自創一個法律用語，臨床上具急迫必要性，所以類推適用藥事法第二十七條之二，院長，什麼是類推適用？"],["卓院長榮泰：部長答復一下，你們的答復是什麼內容？"],["邱部長泰源：首先跟委員報告……"],["羅委員廷瑋：什麼是類推適用？"],["邱部長泰源：類推適用適法性，其實在相關的法令裡面，我們也經過相關法律的諮詢，是沒有問題的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：7月9號我質詢完，你們7月10號開記者會要打我的臉，告訴大家是用前面三個公共安全、公共衛生或者是重大災害，但現在呢？私底下給我回函，食藥署並沒有官方的宣布，並沒有發新聞稿跟社會大眾來報告，只有回復本席，全臺灣只有食藥署跟我知道，這是怕被大眾質疑你們現在改用了類推適用嗎？院長，類推適用只適用於法律的漏洞存在的時候，我想問你，請問藥事法有漏洞嗎？是在哪一條？第五十五條、第二十七條之二還是第三十九條？部長，你可以救他。"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我們應該是用第六十二條，我看一下……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你又在胡扯，你又在胡扯，你根本都在胡扯嘛！藥事法既然將藥品分為必要藥品跟非必要藥品，其中在衛福部明令公告的必要藥品當中，清單內的必要藥品，就是在無法繼續製造輸入或不足供應的時候才可以排除第三十九條的限制，適用藥事法規定的第二十七條之二第三項。現在衛福部所訂定的辦法之一，非必要藥品則不容許例外。你們7月10號的記者會，食藥署告訴大家，生理食鹽水非必要之藥品，不容許例外。所以非屬必要藥品的清單──生理食鹽水當然更不容許例外的產生；我們的法就明確、有意的去做區分、各自排除，用來保障人民的安全。","當然，非法律漏洞時，自不得類推適用，現在哪裡有漏洞？所以我要送給院長三個「扯」，無法源依據，扯！改類推適用，扯！不挺本土廠，扯！你們那天還跟我講了更扯的是什麼？沒有藥害基金的賠償，使用生理食鹽水如果產生生命安全之疑慮，要做什麼？依消保法來求償。你以為今天用生理食鹽水是在逛百貨公司？有沒有積點？有沒有滿千送百？用消保法！講這什麼話！院長，你能夠同意使用生理食鹽水產生問題、嚴重影響到國人安全的時候用消保法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，生理食鹽水是特定需求時才會使用，當然跟一般消費是不一樣的，基於健康的要求，我覺得一定程度要求它的安全是絕對必要的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：藥害基金確定不賠，食藥署確定要用消保法，太扯了！","最後剩1分鐘，我要告訴你，不挺本土廠，我們去查過臺灣大塚製藥、越南大塚製藥、日本大塚製藥，為什麼你們不給臺灣大塚製藥來處理？你們給予的相對應的健保支付根本不夠價格，賠錢的生意沒有人做，砍頭生意有人做，但是你們卻花大筆的錢到越南進口，為什麼？7家進口商裡面有一家叫做韋淳，這家韋淳進口商還擁有立法院的出入證，本席就曾經看過啊！這中間到底有什麼貓膩？說清楚、講明白！我記者會會再繼續跟你追。"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我們在處理的過程絕對沒有任何……完全是考慮怎麼樣趕快來治療人民的健康，而且儘量尋求法律的立足點，請委員放心，如果委員有疑惑，我們很願意誠懇的跟委員說明。"],["主席：好。"],["卓院長榮泰：我會請衛福部公開向社會說明這件事情，不要引起誤會，如果有必要，要全力的澄清。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我代表全國人民拜託，這件事情一定要慎查。"],["邱部長泰源：一定要的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：不只是人事、不只是藥害基金的賠償。"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅廷瑋委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","跟院會報告，現在在我們二樓議場旁聽貴賓席的是美國國會助理訪問團，歡迎參觀我們立法院。Welcome everybody！Welcome！","接下來登記第6號范雲委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員范雲書面質詢：","案由：本院委員范雲，就現行第一線接觸兒少之工作者管制不足，造成曾有侵害兒少權益相關事件之工作者或不熟稔兒童權利之工作者，仍能持續接觸兒少並造成其傷害之現況；要求衛生福利部評估研議於《兒童及少年福利與權益保障法》修法中納入「兒少工作證」相關規定與執行機制。特向行政院提出質詢。","說明：","一、我國現有針對第一線接觸兒少之工作者相關管制，以各主管機關及相關法規之「不適任資料庫」為主軸，惟查資料庫雖包括「教育部不適任教育人員資料庫」、「涉性別事件之學校不適任人員資料庫」、「短期補習班不適任人員資料庫」、「兒童課後照顧服務不適任人員資料庫」、「全國教保服務機構不適任人員資料庫」、「兒少性剝削或性騷擾防治受行政處罰者之資料庫」等多種，然仍有未能建置資料庫或法規有所不及之範疇，如夏令營、家長合資自聘之運動教練、各單位主辦之兒少講座活動等，其中接觸兒少之工作者均未能有任何檢核或把關機制。","二、本席曾於今（113）年6月11日總質詢行政院，請卓榮泰院長發揮「創新行動內閣」的創新精神，參考澳洲行之有年的「兒童工作證」制度，要求從事兒少工作者主動提出證明，使主辦單位或家長得以知悉。當時卓院長認同該議題重要性，後續由教育部於8月率先辦理「從事兒少工作人員認識兒少權利增能研習計畫」。","三、惟相關研習增能僅係「兒少工作證」制度之其中一部分，關鍵點仍是評估研議發證規範、機制建置、與現有各不適任資料庫競合關係等面向。考量實施該制度宜有明確法源依據較為妥適，並因涉及所有兒少權益，宜將相關條文制定於現正由衛生福利部研修之《兒童及少年福利與權益保障法》草案中。","四、爰請行政院會同衛生福利部相關單位，著手進行評估及研議工作；並請考量於《兒童及少年福利與權益保障法》修正草案尚未修正前，先以行政獎勵或補助等方式進行試辦計畫。","五、綜上，前開說明及相關事項，敬請於一個月內回覆書面報告。"],["主席：再接下來，請登記第7位李彥秀委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":195,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","陳俊宇","黃捷","李坤城","邱志偉","魯明哲","林沛祥","黃珊珊","陳昭姿","林憶君","羅廷瑋","范雲","李彥秀","王世堅","盧縣一","邱若華","葉元之","何欣純","徐欣瑩","羅美玲","劉建國"],"page_start":109,"meetingDate":["2024-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00004","1138101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138101_00009"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}