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今年龍年到今年前7個月,我們的全台出生人數是74,298人,比去年兔年同期還少了2,621人。"},{"start":107.614,"end":130.291,"text":"所以這個關鍵就在養小孩的成本太高了所以我們國人辛苦不敢生所以今天本席要替家長來請命在請命之前我們也發現到在陳水扁總統執政的那8年我們台灣的年出生的人口從30.5萬大跌到19.8萬"},{"start":136.089,"end":142.152,"text":"在馬英九總統執政的那8年,我們年出生的人口數從19.8萬回升到破20,20.8萬。"},{"start":149.116,"end":167.266,"text":"我們蔡英文總統執政的8年再從20.8萬大跌到13.5萬所以首先本席想請教這個卓院長賴清德總統的這4年有想要搶救出生率嗎有或沒有就好請檢答"},{"start":169.013,"end":182.39,"text":"有,但是相當的困難。有,很好。那本席在這邊獻策。首先想請問院長,您覺得養一個小孩子,從出生到他22歲大學畢業成年,"},{"start":185.543,"end":214.177,"text":"正常養我所謂的正常養就是你可以這個去做月子中心也可以送托嬰中心或保母托嬰給小孩子補習然後正常的公立學校不一定要念私立那一路念上來當然大學看他考得上私立或公立這樣子您就出生到22歲您覺得要準備的生養育基金平均大概要多少錢"},{"start":216.55,"end":230.121,"text":"我如果大膽的說一個數字,我覺得要一千萬。您的一千萬算是養得比較好。以平均來說,大概是624萬到800萬。800萬是納入通膨,一千萬以上的是養得比較好的。"},{"start":240.356,"end":249.851,"text":"那接著呢在這個yes123求職網的調查他發現我們平均預估就是一個家庭的總收入"},{"start":251.767,"end":272.8,"text":"總的月收入就一個月的收入呢,你如果要養一個小孩,我家庭的總收入大概要11.1萬,可是呢現在的每個月平均的經常性薪資一個人是4.6萬,所以如果父母雙薪家庭這樣子大概平均是9.2,"},{"start":275.831,"end":293.712,"text":"所以我們這樣看到就算是雙薪家庭他也有半數以上達不到11.1萬所以以上本席講了這麼多包含衛福部自己做的全國兒童生活狀況調查"},{"start":295.469,"end":323.441,"text":"就發現假設我家裡有一個0到6歲兒童的家庭我們的家庭大概有一半以上大概就一半50%可以達到收支平衡那有兩成以上是家庭入不敷出所以綜合以上所述我們如果想要鼓勵我們國人生育現在有很多年輕人他是"},{"start":324.622,"end":325.142,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":350.796,"end":378.096,"text":"在這個衛福部也在最近有一個調查就是家長到底希望政府幫助什麼就是要提高育兒津貼還有提高兒童的醫療補助因為小孩子容易生病就怕等於怕生病要花費很大再來就是增設公立或公設民營的托育機構或幼兒園也就是說0到6歲"},{"start":380.037,"end":380.858,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":409.056,"end":409.577,"text":"院長可以嗎?"},{"start":424.506,"end":444.151,"text":"報告委員 就委員剛剛所說的雙薪家庭或是在台北市他沒有辦法很輕易的撫養一個小孩所以我們現在用的是 欸不是只有台北市喔 我覺得任何縣市雙薪家庭 台北市狀況比較更嚴重啦沒有沒有其實我們這個各地都很嚴重 所以現在政府用的是比較多的社會投資家庭支持"},{"start":445.311,"end":464.38,"text":"來減輕他的負擔這是一個做法那剛剛委員所提到從0歲到2歲的專班2歲以上的育兒還有到6歲以上的義務教育到高中職到大學我們都一整串的一個政策那也許沒有辦法每一件都這麼樣精緻到位"},{"start":465.52,"end":491.461,"text":"本席所提的因為我們知道賴總統上任您擔任院長我們這個有再增加一些但是那些不足以鼓勵他們生育所以本席在這邊就是請命我們公立準公立還有這個非營利這個所有的公幼公托希望可以免費私立的補助一萬元以上"},{"start":492.242,"end":492.602,"text":"一年要支出一千多億"},{"start":509.212,"end":510.373,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":537.567,"end":564.796,"text":"這個特別的針對這個超高齡社會我相信院長跟部長都認同您會老我也會老大家都會老所以我們應該要超前部署所以我們現在長照3.0有很多要好好的來落實這個在後面剩下的時間本席會特別提但是在提之前本席還要特別提常見法我們過去是長照法"},{"start":565.436,"end":591.55,"text":"常見法就是長期健康的照顧法,而不是每個人人老了都要倒下來受人照顧,還有常受健康照顧法,就是所謂常見法的精神。請問院長,您如果年紀大了以後,您最希望的是什麼?您去想一個老人家年紀大了,他最希望什麼?能夠自己治理自己的生活,不要影響"},{"start":598.531,"end":610.545,"text":"對,所以他希望他身心健康,而且他活得有品質,可以自理,有尊嚴,不會說我失智失能要人家照顧,這個是可以預防剩餘治療的。"},{"start":611.186,"end":611.346,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":628.05,"end":651.796,"text":"臺灣大概您也知道我們2022年國人的不健康餘命是7.41年也就是說臥病在床到走要臥7年可是人家丹麥7天那我們就要想辦法怎麼樣讓他們活得健康那這一塊我們希望我們行政院可以超前部署來做那有關長照3.0的部分"},{"start":654.453,"end":672.987,"text":"長照3.0我們現在正在實施但是也碰到了諸多的問題首先第一個我們長照的發展基金我們看到114年的預算明年一年大概就會差短120.8億"},{"start":676.591,"end":695.452,"text":"我們現在長照基金大概剩下1406億所以我們可以預見10年之內長照基金大概就會破產了所以針對這一塊我們中央政府有沒有什麼對策 有沒有"},{"start":696.516,"end":703.831,"text":"我們現在要擴張到長照3.0,我們必須要找新的裁員,讓他更充裕。對,新的裁員是什麼?有考慮長照保險法嗎?"},{"start":707.74,"end":733.93,"text":"世界各國有很多國家有在用實行之後的成效不見得完全都是滿分的也有在調整的我剛剛有委員提到我們也曾經答覆過現在世界各國先進的做法我們都可以來參考學習但是要符合我們的國情跟國人的需要我們在長大3.0從家庭社區到機構到醫療到社福整套是做起來"},{"start":734.895,"end":737.316,"text":"長照保險法應該也可以考慮,只是看怎麼實施的比較好吧?"},{"start":755.763,"end":766.281,"text":"有在考慮這個草案嗎?行政院?我們有收集國外的經驗來做比較。那目前還在研擬階段。這個可能部長會更清楚現在的進度吧?"},{"start":767.569,"end":767.769,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":792.657,"end":802.449,"text":"人力的問題有一個就是世界各國先進國家做得非常好的叫做時間銀行這點我不知道院長有聽過嗎?"},{"start":804.363,"end":824.855,"text":"我可以把自己的時間先去做一個服務存起來。 存起來未來對所以這一塊我們中央政府現在有開始在部署著手進行嗎?因為這個由政府來做會更好。 不然的話現在就本席知道有些民間某個縣市做但是很有可能他這個"},{"start":827.924,"end":854.292,"text":"就是說他80歲以前他剛好都住在南部可是他80歲以後兒子媳婦叫他到台北跟他住他就來台北如果只有南部有在實施他這個時間銀行的他的存摺裡面有時間但是如果不是全國性都有在適用的話那他到了北部他可能就不能用所以這個中央政府能不能超前部署來進行"},{"start":855.663,"end":855.783,"text":"是的﹖"},{"start":877.144,"end":902.859,"text":"我們希望我們能夠看到政府早點來做,因為這個從規劃到執行也需要一些時間。那接著,有關長照3.0在地方有製造中心,有喘息服務,還有關懷據點。本席在這裡要特別為偏鄉地區來請命。很多偏鄉地區人力不足,那我們給的這個共餐費用遠遠不足。"},{"start":903.679,"end":918.59,"text":"譬如現在營養午餐平均一餐都有50塊可是如果我們這個偏鄉地區他老人有100人可是那個費用沒有彈性也不能專案補助他們的一個人的共餐費用降到18.6"},{"start":920.507,"end":931.111,"text":"這個真的是非常非常對不合理所以本席希望能夠有針對偏鄉來專案補助特別是我們也發現在我們衛福部的4916個關懷據點中"},{"start":950.95,"end":952.72,"text":"好,謝謝徐欣瑩"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:51:38+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:51:39+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，本席有請卓院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T15:51:39+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:51:40+08:00","text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢。","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T15:51:39.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:51:40.190000+08:00","text":"徐委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:52:08.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:52:08.334000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:52:10.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:52:19.584000+08:00","text":"本席今天想要為我們國家的主人翁──孩子們、家長還有老人家來請命。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:52:20.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:52:37.665000+08:00","text":"首先看到非常有趣的一個數據，我們臺灣曾經是全球生育率最高，但是不知道院長是否知道，去年降到歷史新低，我們是全球生育率最低。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:52:39.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:52:40.188000+08:00","text":"總生育率呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:52:40.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:52:46.013000+08:00","text":"去年降到0.865人，也就是一位婦女生0.865位。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:52:47.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:52:49.131000+08:00","text":"今年是龍年，照理說，我想院長應該知道，過去50年……沒錯。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:52:49.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:53:08.411000+08:00","text":"包含我跟我弟弟出生的年代，過去50年只要碰到龍年，龍子、龍女人口是暴增的。是的。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:53:08.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:53:32.539000+08:00","text":"今年龍年，到今年前7個月，全臺出生人數是7萬4,298人，比去年兔年同期還少了2,621人，所以這個關鍵就在養小孩的成本太高了，我們國人覺得辛苦，不敢生。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:53:33.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:53:35.582000+08:00","text":"所以今天本席要替家長來請命。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:53:36.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:54:15.400000+08:00","text":"在請命之前，我們也發現到，在陳水扁總統執政的那八年，臺灣的年出生人口從30.5萬大跌到19.8萬；在馬英九總統執政的那八年，我們的年出生人口數從19.8萬回升到破20，有20.8萬；在蔡英文總統執政的那八年，再從20.8萬大跌到13.5萬。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:54:15.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:54:24.245000+08:00","text":"所以首先本席想請教卓院長，賴清德總統的這四年有想要搶救出生率嗎？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:54:24.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:54:25.246000+08:00","text":"有或沒有就好，請簡答。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T15:54:27.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:54:29.096000+08:00","text":"有，但是相當的困難。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:54:29.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:54:29.536000+08:00","text":"有，很好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:54:30.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:54:31.579000+08:00","text":"本席在這邊獻策。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T15:54:31.579000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:54:33.661000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:54:33.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:55:12.177000+08:00","text":"首先想請問院長，您覺得養一個小孩子，從出生到他22歲大學畢業、成年，正常養的話，我所謂的正常養就是，你可以去坐月子中心，也可以送托嬰中心或保母托嬰、給小孩子補習，然後正常念公立學校，不一定要念私立，一路念上來，當然大學看他考得上私立或公立，這樣從出生到22歲，您覺得要準備的生養育基金平均大概要多少錢？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T15:55:14.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:55:19.594000+08:00","text":"我如果大膽的說一個數字，我覺得要1,000萬。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:55:19.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:55:26.039000+08:00","text":"好，您的1,000萬算是養得比較好，以平均來說，大概是624萬到800萬。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:55:26.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:55:28.101000+08:00","text":"800萬是納入通膨，1,000萬以上是養得比較好的。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:55:38.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:56:21.020000+08:00","text":"接著，據yes123求職網的調查，發現平均預估一個家庭的總收入，即總的月收入，就是一個月的收入，如果要養一個小孩，家庭的總收入大概要11.1萬，可是現在一個人每個月的平均經常性薪資是4.6萬，如果雙薪家庭平均是9.2萬，所以就算是雙薪家庭，也有半數以上達不到11.1萬。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:56:23.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:56:50.176000+08:00","text":"以上本席講了這麼多，包含從衛福部自己做的全國兒童生活狀況調查就發現，假設是有一個0到6歲兒童的家庭，大概就一半、50%可以達到收支平衡，有兩成以上的家庭則是入不敷出。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:56:51.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:57:01.161000+08:00","text":"綜合以上所述，如果想要鼓勵國人生育，現在有很多年輕人不敢生，因為他覺得生養育要花太多錢了，所以剛剛最後的數據講到，只要有一個0到6歲兒童的家庭，將近一半都覺得收支沒辦法平衡。","quality":0.321},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:57:01.161000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:57:31.318000+08:00","text":"這個是衛福部自己做的，一定、確定入不敷出的就有兩成。","quality":0.217},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:57:31.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:57:37.522000+08:00","text":"衛福部最近也有一個調查，就是家長到底希望政府幫助什麼？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:57:37.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:57:55.575000+08:00","text":"就是要提高育兒津貼，還有提高兒童的醫療補助，因為小孩子容易生病，等於怕生病花費很大，再來就是增設公立或公設民營的托育機構或幼兒園。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:57:55.575000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:58:19.220500+08:00","text":"也就是說，0到6歲的花費……一般小孩出生的時候，很多家長可能比較年輕、剛入社會，因為經驗等各方面因素，也還沒有加薪，那時候他最需要政府的補助，所以本席在這裡獻策，也為家長來請命，院長可不可以好好來考慮，對於所有的公托、準公托、公幼，還有非營利以及準公幼，都能夠讓他們一律免費？","quality":0.05},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:58:19.220500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:58:42.866000+08:00","text":"私立的，我們來補助他最少1萬元，院長可以嗎？","quality":0.278},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T15:58:42.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:58:49.908000+08:00","text":"就委員剛剛所說的雙薪家庭，或許在臺北市，沒有辦法很輕易地撫養一個小孩，所以我們現在用的是……","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:58:50.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:58:51.188000+08:00","text":"不是只有臺北市！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:58:52.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:58:54.089000+08:00","text":"我覺得任何縣市雙薪家庭……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T15:58:54.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:58:55.889000+08:00","text":"臺北市狀況更嚴重。沒有！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:58:56.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:58:57.790000+08:00","text":"其實各地都很嚴重。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T15:58:57.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:59:05.752000+08:00","text":"所以現在政府用比較多的社會投資、家庭支持來減輕他的負擔，這是一個作法。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T15:59:06.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:59:18.178000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員所提到的，從0歲到2歲的專班，2歲以上的育兒，還有6歲以上的義務教育到高中職、到大學，我們都有一整串的政策。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:59:18.178000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:59:19.178000+08:00","text":"對，我知道、我知道……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T15:59:18.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:59:24.801000+08:00","text":"也許沒有辦法每一件都這麼樣精緻到位，但是我們會持續提升。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:59:25.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T15:59:49.441000+08:00","text":"因為我們知道賴總統上任，您擔任院長，有再增加一些，但是那些不足以鼓勵他們生育，所以本席在這邊就是請命，公立、準公立，還有非營利，以及所有的公幼、公托，希望可以免費，私立的補助1萬元以上，我們希望院長好好思考。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T15:59:49.441000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T15:59:55.206750+08:00","text":"接著，我剩下一半的時間……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T15:59:55.206750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:00:00.972500+08:00","text":"我們在財政的衡量下，現在是用準公托的方式，補助從7,000到1萬3,000元不等都有，準公托的方式。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:00:00.972500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:00:06.738250+08:00","text":"就是希望他們完全免費嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:00:06.738250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:00:12.504000+08:00","text":"然後私立的補助他1萬。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:00:12.504000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:00:18.269750+08:00","text":"我們0到6歲一年要支出一千多億，國家的財政能力，我們會想辦法來讓國家更發展。","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:00:18.269750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:00:24.035500+08:00","text":"接著，我們就是出生率一直低嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:00:24.035500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:00:29.801250+08:00","text":"所以院長，您知道嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:00:29.801250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:00:35.567000+08:00","text":"明年我們臺灣就進入了超高齡的社會，所謂超高齡社會就是每5個人裡面就有一位是65歲以上老人。沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:00:35.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:01:16.483000+08:00","text":"也就是65歲以上的人口占了20%以上，所以本席在這裡特別針對超高齡社會，我相信院長跟部長都認同，您會老，我也會老，大家都會老，所以我們應該要超前部署，我們現在長照3.0有很多要好好的來落實，在後面剩下的時間，本席會特別提，但是在提之前，本席還要特別提長健法，我們過去是長照法，長健法就是長期健康的照顧法，而不是每個人人老了都要倒下來受人照顧，還有長壽健康照顧法，就是所謂長健法的精神。","quality":0.834},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:01:18.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:01:23.107000+08:00","text":"請問院長，您如果年紀大了以後，最希望的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:01:23.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:01:27.089000+08:00","text":"您去想，一個老人家年紀大了，他最希望什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:01:27.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:01:29.550000+08:00","text":"能夠自己自理自己的生活，不要影響晚輩，然後自己能夠在身心靈健全的狀況底下好好的享受晚年。","quality":0.341},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:01:36.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:01:48.525000+08:00","text":"對，所以他希望他身心健康，而且他活得有品質，可以自理、有尊嚴，不會失智、失能，要人家照顧，這個是可以預防勝於治療的。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:01:48.525000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:02:06.050000+08:00","text":"這個部分，我們希望我們的政府可以超前部署、優先來做，大家面臨超高齡社會來臨，我們可以先做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:02:06.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:02:23.974000+08:00","text":"而長健法的部分，過去的臺灣你大概也知道，2022年國人的不健康餘命是7.41年，也就是說，臥病在床到走要過7年，可是人家丹麥7天，我們就要想辦法看怎麼樣讓他們活得健康。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:02:25.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:02:28.575000+08:00","text":"這一塊，我們希望行政院可以超前部署來做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:02:29.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:02:37.417000+08:00","text":"有關長照3.0的部分，我們現在正在實施，但是也碰到了諸多的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:02:37.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:03:11.790000+08:00","text":"首先，有關長照發展基金，我們看到114年的預算，光是明年一年，大概就會差短120.8億，現在長照基金大概剩下1,406億，所以我們可以預見10年之內，長照基金大概就會破產，所以針對這一塊，我們中央政府有沒有什麼對策？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:03:14.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:03:20.167000+08:00","text":"我們現在要擴張到長照3.0，就必須要找新的財源，讓它更充裕。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:03:20.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:03:21.450000+08:00","text":"對，新的財源是什麼？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:03:21.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:03:21.831000+08:00","text":"有考慮長照保險法嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:03:21.831000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:03:25.740000+08:00","text":"有沒有考慮？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:03:25.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:03:27.521000+08:00","text":"世界各國是有這樣的例子……","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:03:27.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:03:28.781000+08:00","text":"有很多國家有在用。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:03:30.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:03:51.930000+08:00","text":"實行之後的成效不見得完全都是滿分的，也有在調整的，剛剛有委員提到，我們也曾答復過，現在世界各國先進的作法，我們都可以來參考學習，但是要符合我們的國情跟國人需要，現在的長照3.0，從家庭、社區、到機構、到醫療、到社福，整套做起來花費應該會相當的大。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:03:51.930000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:03:52.930000+08:00","text":"但是我是認為過去長照支出的結構，如果有辦法做適度調整的話，我們才能有辦法因應未來長照3.0的需求。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:03:52.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:03:55.296000+08:00","text":"好，那長照保險法應該也可以考慮，只是看怎麼實施比較好吧？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:04:13.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:04:15.406000+08:00","text":"行政院有在考慮這個草案嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:04:16.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:04:20.033000+08:00","text":"我們有蒐集國外的經驗來做比較，那目前……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:04:20.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:04:21.376000+08:00","text":"還在研擬階段？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:04:22.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:04:24.260000+08:00","text":"可能部長會更清楚現在的進度吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:04:24.260000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:04:37.458500+08:00","text":"沒關係，應該在階段了，因為我們都沒看到，所以本席在這裡建議可以參考長照保險法，讓我們的財源有稅收來源，我們也有一些是政府保險的財源。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:04:37.458500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:04:50.657000+08:00","text":"好，接著，有關長照3.0的實施，除了經費之外，有沒有發現人力也是短缺？當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:04:50.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:05:00.449000+08:00","text":"人力的問題，有一個世界各先進國家做得非常好的叫做時間銀行，這點，不知道院長有聽過嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:05:02.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:05:06.065000+08:00","text":"就是我可以把自己的時間先去做一個服務存起來，以後……","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:05:06.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:05:13.590000+08:00","text":"存起來，未來……對，所以這一塊我們中央政府現在有開始在部署、著手進行嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:05:13.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:05:52.272000+08:00","text":"因為這個由政府來做會更好，不然的話，就本席知道，有些民間或某個縣市在做，但很有可能這個人，譬如他在80歲以前剛好都住在南部，可是80歲以後，兒子、媳婦叫他到臺北跟他們住，他就來臺北，如果只有南部有實施，而不是全國性適用的話，雖然他的時間銀行存摺裡有時間，但到了北部可能就不能用，所以這部分中央政府能不能超前部署來進行？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:05:52.272000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:05:57.062600+08:00","text":"我們希望臺灣是一個志工的社會，如果大家都……","quality":0.211},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:05:57.062600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:06:01.853200+08:00","text":"所以這個時間銀行應該可以考慮？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:06:01.853200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:06:06.643800+08:00","text":"對，就是這樣的理念，志工的社會，大家先付出，等到需要的時候，就有更多人來關心，這個應該成為一個體制跟一個機制。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:06:06.643800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:06:11.434400+08:00","text":"這是很好的構想，部長會後能夠從長去規劃未來的發展方向。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T16:06:11.434400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:06:16.225000+08:00","text":"好，是的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:06:16.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:06:22.648000+08:00","text":"好，我們希望能夠看到政府早點著手，因為這個從規劃到執行也需要一些時間。好的。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:06:22.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:07:00.088000+08:00","text":"接著有關長照3.0，在地方有日照中心、喘息服務，還有關懷據點，本席在這裡要特別為偏鄉地區請命，很多偏鄉地區人力不足，而我們給的共餐費用遠遠不足，譬如現在營養午餐平均一餐都有50塊，可是偏鄉地區如果老人有100人，相關費用沒有彈性，也不能專案補助，所以他們一個人的共餐費用是降到18.6元，這個真的是非常非常……","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:07:00.088000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:07:01.088000+08:00","text":"不合理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:07:00.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:07:09.091000+08:00","text":"對，不合理，所以本席希望能夠有針對偏鄉的專案補助，特別是我們也發現在衛福部的4,916個關懷據點中，184個據點是在偏鄉，你們希望成立第二個，但能夠成立的不到10%，所以我們希望能夠有專案經費，可以嗎？","quality":0.482},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:07:09.591000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:07:14.448143+08:00","text":"好的，我們來加強對偏鄉這個政策的照顧。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-10-22T16:07:14.748143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:07:15.748143+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:07:16.048143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:07:17.191000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T16:07:17.491000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:07:24.633857+08:00","text":"好，謝謝徐欣瑩委員、謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","quality":0.24},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T16:07:24.933857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:07:27.791000+08:00","text":"報告院會，現在休息10分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T16:07:28.091000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:07:29.233857+08:00","text":"休息（16時7分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T16:07:29.533857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:07:31.248143+08:00","text":"繼續開會（16時18分）","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":404,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（15時51分）謝謝主席，本席有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長好。本席今天想要為我們國家的主人翁──孩子們、家長還有老人家來請命。首先看到非常有趣的一個數據，我們臺灣曾經是全球生育率最高，但是不知道院長是否知道，去年降到歷史新低，我們是全球生育率最低。總生育率呢？去年降到0.865人，也就是一位婦女生0.865位。今年是龍年，照理說，我想院長應該知道，過去50年……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["徐委員欣瑩：包含我跟我弟弟出生的年代，過去50年只要碰到龍年，龍子、龍女人口是暴增的。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：今年龍年，到今年前7個月，全臺出生人數是7萬4,298人，比去年兔年同期還少了2,621人，所以這個關鍵就在養小孩的成本太高了，我們國人覺得辛苦，不敢生。所以今天本席要替家長來請命。在請命之前，我們也發現到，在陳水扁總統執政的那八年，臺灣的年出生人口從30.5萬大跌到19.8萬；在馬英九總統執政的那八年，我們的年出生人口數從19.8萬回升到破20，有20.8萬；在蔡英文總統執政的那八年，再從20.8萬大跌到13.5萬。所以首先本席想請教卓院長，賴清德總統的這四年有想要搶救出生率嗎？有或沒有就好，請簡答。"],["卓院長榮泰：有，但是相當的困難。"],["徐委員欣瑩：有，很好！本席在這邊獻策。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。"],["徐委員欣瑩：首先想請問院長，您覺得養一個小孩子，從出生到他22歲大學畢業、成年，正常養的話，我所謂的正常養就是，你可以去坐月子中心，也可以送托嬰中心或保母托嬰、給小孩子補習，然後正常念公立學校，不一定要念私立，一路念上來，當然大學看他考得上私立或公立，這樣從出生到22歲，您覺得要準備的生養育基金平均大概要多少錢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我如果大膽的說一個數字，我覺得要1,000萬。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，您的1,000萬算是養得比較好，以平均來說，大概是624萬到800萬。800萬是納入通膨，1,000萬以上是養得比較好的。接著，據yes123求職網的調查，發現平均預估一個家庭的總收入，即總的月收入，就是一個月的收入，如果要養一個小孩，家庭的總收入大概要11.1萬，可是現在一個人每個月的平均經常性薪資是4.6萬，如果雙薪家庭平均是9.2萬，所以就算是雙薪家庭，也有半數以上達不到11.1萬。","以上本席講了這麼多，包含從衛福部自己做的全國兒童生活狀況調查就發現，假設是有一個0到6歲兒童的家庭，大概就一半、50%可以達到收支平衡，有兩成以上的家庭則是入不敷出。綜合以上所述，如果想要鼓勵國人生育，現在有很多年輕人不敢生，因為他覺得生養育要花太多錢了，所以剛剛最後的數據講到，只要有一個0到6歲兒童的家庭，將近一半都覺得收支沒辦法平衡。這個是衛福部自己做的，一定、確定入不敷出的就有兩成。衛福部最近也有一個調查，就是家長到底希望政府幫助什麼？就是要提高育兒津貼，還有提高兒童的醫療補助，因為小孩子容易生病，等於怕生病花費很大，再來就是增設公立或公設民營的托育機構或幼兒園。","也就是說，0到6歲的花費……一般小孩出生的時候，很多家長可能比較年輕、剛入社會，因為經驗等各方面因素，也還沒有加薪，那時候他最需要政府的補助，所以本席在這裡獻策，也為家長來請命，院長可不可以好好來考慮，對於所有的公托、準公托、公幼，還有非營利以及準公幼，都能夠讓他們一律免費？私立的，我們來補助他最少1萬元，院長可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：就委員剛剛所說的雙薪家庭，或許在臺北市，沒有辦法很輕易地撫養一個小孩，所以我們現在用的是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是只有臺北市！我覺得任何縣市雙薪家庭……"],["卓院長榮泰：臺北市狀況更嚴重。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有！其實各地都很嚴重。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以現在政府用比較多的社會投資、家庭支持來減輕他的負擔，這是一個作法。剛剛委員所提到的，從0歲到2歲的專班，2歲以上的育兒，還有6歲以上的義務教育到高中職、到大學，我們都有一整串的政策。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，我知道、我知道……"],["卓院長榮泰：也許沒有辦法每一件都這麼樣精緻到位，但是我們會持續提升。"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為我們知道賴總統上任，您擔任院長，有再增加一些，但是那些不足以鼓勵他們生育，所以本席在這邊就是請命，公立、準公立，還有非營利，以及所有的公幼、公托，希望可以免費，私立的補助1萬元以上，我們希望院長好好思考。","接著，我剩下一半的時間……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在財政的衡量下，現在是用準公托的方式，補助從7,000到1萬3,000元不等都有，準公托的方式。"],["徐委員欣瑩：就是希望他們完全免費嘛！然後私立的補助他1萬。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們0到6歲一年要支出一千多億，國家的財政能力，我們會想辦法來讓國家更發展。"],["徐委員欣瑩：接著，我們就是出生率一直低嘛！所以院長，您知道嗎？明年我們臺灣就進入了超高齡的社會，所謂超高齡社會就是每5個人裡面就有一位是65歲以上老人。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["徐委員欣瑩：也就是65歲以上的人口占了20%以上，所以本席在這裡特別針對超高齡社會，我相信院長跟部長都認同，您會老，我也會老，大家都會老，所以我們應該要超前部署，我們現在長照3.0有很多要好好的來落實，在後面剩下的時間，本席會特別提，但是在提之前，本席還要特別提長健法，我們過去是長照法，長健法就是長期健康的照顧法，而不是每個人人老了都要倒下來受人照顧，還有長壽健康照顧法，就是所謂長健法的精神。請問院長，您如果年紀大了以後，最希望的是什麼？您去想，一個老人家年紀大了，他最希望什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：能夠自己自理自己的生活，不要影響晚輩，然後自己能夠在身心靈健全的狀況底下好好的享受晚年。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，所以他希望他身心健康，而且他活得有品質，可以自理、有尊嚴，不會失智、失能，要人家照顧，這個是可以預防勝於治療的。這個部分，我們希望我們的政府可以超前部署、優先來做，大家面臨超高齡社會來臨，我們可以先做。而長健法的部分，過去的臺灣你大概也知道，2022年國人的不健康餘命是7.41年，也就是說，臥病在床到走要過7年，可是人家丹麥7天，我們就要想辦法看怎麼樣讓他們活得健康。這一塊，我們希望行政院可以超前部署來做。","有關長照3.0的部分，我們現在正在實施，但是也碰到了諸多的問題。首先，有關長照發展基金，我們看到114年的預算，光是明年一年，大概就會差短120.8億，現在長照基金大概剩下1,406億，所以我們可以預見10年之內，長照基金大概就會破產，所以針對這一塊，我們中央政府有沒有什麼對策？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在要擴張到長照3.0，就必須要找新的財源，讓它更充裕。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，新的財源是什麼？有考慮長照保險法嗎？有沒有考慮？"],["卓院長榮泰：世界各國是有這樣的例子……"],["徐委員欣瑩：有很多國家有在用。"],["卓院長榮泰：實行之後的成效不見得完全都是滿分的，也有在調整的，剛剛有委員提到，我們也曾答復過，現在世界各國先進的作法，我們都可以來參考學習，但是要符合我們的國情跟國人需要，現在的長照3.0，從家庭、社區、到機構、到醫療、到社福，整套做起來花費應該會相當的大。但是我是認為過去長照支出的結構，如果有辦法做適度調整的話，我們才能有辦法因應未來長照3.0的需求。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，那長照保險法應該也可以考慮，只是看怎麼實施比較好吧？行政院有在考慮這個草案嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有蒐集國外的經驗來做比較，那目前……"],["徐委員欣瑩：還在研擬階段？"],["卓院長榮泰：可能部長會更清楚現在的進度吧！"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒關係，應該在階段了，因為我們都沒看到，所以本席在這裡建議可以參考長照保險法，讓我們的財源有稅收來源，我們也有一些是政府保險的財源。好，接著，有關長照3.0的實施，除了經費之外，有沒有發現人力也是短缺？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然。"],["徐委員欣瑩：人力的問題，有一個世界各先進國家做得非常好的叫做時間銀行，這點，不知道院長有聽過嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：就是我可以把自己的時間先去做一個服務存起來，以後……"],["徐委員欣瑩：存起來，未來……對，所以這一塊我們中央政府現在有開始在部署、著手進行嗎？因為這個由政府來做會更好，不然的話，就本席知道，有些民間或某個縣市在做，但很有可能這個人，譬如他在80歲以前剛好都住在南部，可是80歲以後，兒子、媳婦叫他到臺北跟他們住，他就來臺北，如果只有南部有實施，而不是全國性適用的話，雖然他的時間銀行存摺裡有時間，但到了北部可能就不能用，所以這部分中央政府能不能超前部署來進行？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們希望臺灣是一個志工的社會，如果大家都……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以這個時間銀行應該可以考慮？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，就是這樣的理念，志工的社會，大家先付出，等到需要的時候，就有更多人來關心，這個應該成為一個體制跟一個機制。這是很好的構想，部長會後能夠從長去規劃未來的發展方向。"],["邱部長泰源：好，是的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我們希望能夠看到政府早點著手，因為這個從規劃到執行也需要一些時間。"],["邱部長泰源：好的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：接著有關長照3.0，在地方有日照中心、喘息服務，還有關懷據點，本席在這裡要特別為偏鄉地區請命，很多偏鄉地區人力不足，而我們給的共餐費用遠遠不足，譬如現在營養午餐平均一餐都有50塊，可是偏鄉地區如果老人有100人，相關費用沒有彈性，也不能專案補助，所以他們一個人的共餐費用是降到18.6元，這個真的是非常非常……"],["卓院長榮泰：不合理。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，不合理，所以本席希望能夠有針對偏鄉的專案補助，特別是我們也發現在衛福部的4,916個關懷據點中，184個據點是在偏鄉，你們希望成立第二個，但能夠成立的不到10%，所以我們希望能夠有專案經費，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，我們來加強對偏鄉這個政策的照顧。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝徐欣瑩委員、謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，現在休息10分鐘。","休息（16時7分）","繼續開會（16時18分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":195,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","陳俊宇","黃捷","李坤城","邱志偉","魯明哲","林沛祥","黃珊珊","陳昭姿","林憶君","羅廷瑋","范雲","李彥秀","王世堅","盧縣一","邱若華","葉元之","何欣純","徐欣瑩","羅美玲","劉建國"],"page_start":109,"meetingDate":["2024-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00004","1138101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138101_00009"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}