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院長好。 院長辛苦。 院長跟部長請看這一個報導。 長照杯葛、兵戶、士、士之戶改判12年。 那我想剛剛羅委員特別提到,臺灣已經要進到2025的超高齡這項社會。 那進到超高齡社會的最大的一個挑戰,我是從施政的這個角度去看齊。 所以像這個報導,會不會越來越加劇?"},{"start":57.181,"end":58.682,"text":"然後情況會不會越來越複雜?"},{"start":64.449,"end":80.113,"text":"為什麼?因為曾經邱部長跟我當同事的時候,我一直在強調,一個家庭一人失智,全家喪志。那個是很煎熬的,從要去到底是不是失智症,要確診之前,其實就有一段很難能再理解的過程。"},{"start":83.53,"end":111.032,"text":"到了他的花瓶的初期到中期到末期坦白講那個整個照顧階段是完全不一樣的一個樣態所以我才會特別從施政角度要來跟院長跟部長做討論那部長再看下面這個資料我們之前這個臺灣施政協會在2022年推估2026年65歲以上的施政人口會來到36萬那我們衛務部今年已經推估65歲的施政人口已經達到35萬了"},{"start":112.833,"end":127.755,"text":"然後同時臺灣施政協會在2022年推估施政總人口數2026年是37萬但今年的推估臺灣施政總人口數就已經來到37萬也就是說提早到兩年了"},{"start":129.062,"end":147.052,"text":"兩年就到來了,這代表臺灣施政的人口數急劇的在上升當中。然後這個部分我對照一個資料可能要給院長跟部長能夠理解說,這個事情如果我們不加以去做處理的話,可能要付出的社會成本跟代價會更多。"},{"start":148.239,"end":174.046,"text":"國際施政協會我是在10多年前就跟他們這個執行長那是一個法國人特別到立院來來拜會當時的未婉那時候我當召委然後他們這個相當有權威就在9月21號公布2024全球施政報告其中對臺灣部分參與調查臺灣照顧者對於社區中有足夠的施治者支持的服務認同比例"},{"start":174.693,"end":179.858,"text":"才4成8,不到一半,同時一般民眾認同率才有3成2。"},{"start":181.052,"end":210.69,"text":"很低啦這是坦白講是不及格的然後這些數據如果根據施政防治照護政策綱領暨行動方案的2.0也就是2018到2025的這個執行上又出現了非常嚴重問題尤其在去年112年在院長跟部長都還沒有到任之前我們是編了70億結果僅執行42億執行率6乘1那其實這七項裡面可以看到有一項編的特別多執行特別糟糕"},{"start":211.916,"end":235.875,"text":"請院長跟部長特別關注,因為我的時間有限,自己編的既然知情率糟糕到這種程度,是不是因為這個樣子才能讓這個國際的施政協會在整個調查報告中顯示這樣的數據出來?所以我是希望只要這個政府對這個施政的預防及照顧沒有做好,真的"},{"start":236.653,"end":260.012,"text":"真的會讓臺灣付出更大的這樣的一個成本,甚至以照顧的人力跟經費都會持續的一直在往上增加。 這個我們一定要因應啦。 所以我在這邊要具體的拜託,為什麼要特別跟院長拜託。 施政的3.0,這個行動方案3.0要提早,一定要提早。 我相信長照3.0我們總統就已經喊出來了。"},{"start":260.933,"end":290.486,"text":"那施政的照顧現在2.0執行率是這個狀態所以我們應該立即盤整2.0相關的缺失改正然後3.0要即刻上路所以這邊是不是可以具體建議部長可以折承要求因為他這個當時是跨部會的一個行動方案所以是不是請院長跟部長能不能在這一周內訂出這個要嚴厲的3.0的這個工作期程然後盡快的"},{"start":290.939,"end":317.351,"text":"用最快速讓3.0版本可以上路。各位報告我想剛剛您那個數字我也非常的震驚只有32個滿意那是不是我們還有機會因為這是今年的預算在執行趕快來看看今年預算在執行過程當中到底出了哪些問題不要在明年重複這樣的問題我想這個檢討必須要先做那至於新的3.0方案衛部是不是手上已經有在研立或是我們盡快來處理"},{"start":318.55,"end":341.093,"text":"現在總統都一直在講長照3.0嘛那其實上長照3.0是至今還沒有正式要上路喔未來未來一定要上路嘛對不對但是總統已經在很多公開場合講到長照3.0坦白講我覺得總統是在在擔心啦那甚至也要待快一點嘛所以有時候有時候一個階段一個階段但是我們的應變速度要更快嘛所以這個3.0是不是請院長"},{"start":341.772,"end":348.238,"text":"長照3.0我們是有積極在研究那現在手上的是不是最後的定案可能還要有一點時間但是如果這個草案的構想能夠先給委員參考也請委員指教這個是可以的"},{"start":361.33,"end":373.426,"text":"針對施政這個部分,施政行動方案的3.0,我們現在是2.0嘛,雖然還有一年的時間,但是我覺得可以提早來討論,來修正,來研議,讓3.0可以盡快上路,可以吧?"},{"start":374.937,"end":394.722,"text":"報告委員,我們在這個方案裡面,我們特別在持續加強,跟長照3.0一樣,在長照跟醫療的結合,發展失智精準的照顧,這個就已經有點進階了,我想可以顯示到您所說的3.0,希望能夠擴大跟精準。"},{"start":396.287,"end":399.168,"text":"臺灣的醫療品質、照護體系是全球有目共睹,但是在偏遠地區"},{"start":420.202,"end":430.464,"text":"的可敬性跟醫療量能,他還是遠不及都會區。 蔡前總統在任內推動優化偏鄉醫療經濟計畫,從2019年到2023年編列是9.5億,但最後僅執行3億,我不曉得這什麼原因。 然後第二期計畫是2024到2027再編列63.7億,要來提升整體的這個偏鄉的醫療品質,確保偏鄉民眾"},{"start":444.327,"end":471.355,"text":"叫一樣的保惠要得到一樣同等的照顧我相信這大家都是要積極努力打編這個目標但是我們根據這個全民健康保險的牙醫門診的總額若是鄉鎮的醫療服務提升獎勵計畫有209個鄉鎮市區提出申請那全國對比368個鄉鎮市區我們將近有一半以上缺牙醫一半以上缺牙醫這是這個情況是"},{"start":473.295,"end":495.217,"text":"這是非常恐怖啦,院長跟部長在看我圖表二,你可以看到我的母縣口吳鄉跟二輪鄉有將近兩萬五千的人口上下,通通沒有牙醫診所,通通沒有牙醫診所,很久的一段時間,一直到現在,我覺得這樣對偏鄉的百姓而言,真的是很不公平,對待啦齁。"},{"start":495.845,"end":497.485,"text":"那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那..."},{"start":525.384,"end":549.114,"text":"那我們這個期程的計畫在第二期2024是今年喔一直到2027喔我們又變了63.7億那院長可以跟部長再看那個細項從幾個單位裡面從幾個單位裡面衛福部的醫事師是在110年度就有執行退會有執行但110年度有相關的在衛福部轄下的各師"},{"start":550.373,"end":563.665,"text":"可能都沒有辦法去執行,而且114年度的預算是第二次多,到時候這樣的預算被擋的,沒辦法執行。我們要怎麼應應?要怎麼處理?"},{"start":563.665,"end":563.685,"text":"院長"},{"start":566.764,"end":590.077,"text":"請委員支持我們還是非常積極的在努力希望透過各種的溝通方式也提出不同的折衷的方法希望能夠在大院草野協商能夠獲得圓滿的進展這個也非常謝謝韓院長一直在主持這樣的協商會議我們希望能夠有獲得好的一個結果跟發展我覺得院長很努力這個我都很清楚但是現在面對到這個問題對不對都沒有"},{"start":593.035,"end":593.935,"text":"我認為不至於,我們還在努力。"},{"start":613.167,"end":637.609,"text":"院長你答應我不至於喔OK好那我們就看114年度他的第二期他的第二期是要如期來實施喔好謝謝院長那第三題是這樣這個少子化我相信院長也非常在意跟部長也非常在意嘛這是一個國安問題到了院長你今年要面對到一個難題今年是龍年"},{"start":638.92,"end":651.968,"text":"像台灣的在整個這樣的一個習慣裡面跟生孩子的狀態,農業是生的最多的時候。但院長你可以看,現在很糟糕,105年是15萬,111年是13.8萬,112年是13.5萬,那今年113年,又剛好院長來當院長,怎麼辦?他有可能沒有辦法破13萬。"},{"start":660.911,"end":685.487,"text":"為什麼這麼說?我們現在最樂觀的估計是13.2是13.2 最樂觀的估計到9月底是97733這數字很恐怖啊高拐啦 七唱唱啦我們剩下兩個月初而已喔我們要再有3200多個新生兒才有辦法13萬不是13.2萬喔陳董國統委 院長"},{"start":690.162,"end":690.863,"text":"這是我們國發會在人口政策報告當中一個比較樂觀的"},{"start":701.633,"end":721.487,"text":"其實現在到年底之前,我也不可能把這個數字再做什麼樣的努力,我們都沒有辦法。我們希望明年啊,我們能夠維持住這樣的數字,然後再慢慢的設法來提升。好,很多面向都要處理啦,不是從單一一個面向去做處理,就可以讓這個升級提高啦。我這邊有一個,因為時間的關係。"},{"start":723.428,"end":723.928,"text":"臺北桃園新竹苗栗開始有在補助這個動亂"},{"start":739.254,"end":766.606,"text":"國務部現在在研議醫療性的動亂服務我們要讓年輕的癌症病友在他整個治療過程不影響的情況之下萬一有這個機會可以有這個機會身體比較恢復健康他還保有生育的這個機會那我要這具體要求部長是不是擴大一點這樣的動亂的服務的門開大一點有些女性的好花的重大疾病應該都可以列入在這個參考範圍裡面"},{"start":768.407,"end":797.056,"text":"那動亂的服務是差不多10到15萬左右還不包含他未來的這個保存的這個經費那地方政府現在已經在實施的坦白講國安的少許什麼就國安問題嘛國安問題是中央要承擔起來那地方要把它列作地方知識事項當然我們樂觀其成不過因為補助沒有到位這幾個縣市我們去做調查相關的補助申請幾乎是零啦幾乎是零"},{"start":798.732,"end":814.577,"text":"10到15萬地方政府補助3萬,這麼大的一個距離落差,我要請院長是不是可以思考,因為國安的問題就是我們中央必須要承擔起來,那衛生部也有在研議,是不是可以更擴大的一個範圍,然後院長來支持。"},{"start":815.806,"end":839.243,"text":"從政策面的討論,無論是對少子化,他絕對是一個可以幫忙的,甚至對於婦女他本身希望能夠將來保有生兒育女機會的這樣的身體上的問題,我們能夠提早替他做解決,這個政策討論也絕對是正面的。我們看看會議部從經費上如何來因應,最短的時間上怎麼來開始執行,這個可以討論的。"},{"start":840.524,"end":852.165,"text":"就請一個月能不能把這個經會還有原意相關的辦法可以提出來。好的,沒問題。這個是很有意義的事情。好,謝謝。最後一題,剩下一分多充。"},{"start":855.366,"end":875.452,"text":"賴總統一直在強調,民進黨是以照顧弱勢的族群起來的一個政黨,所以越弱勢我們更應該越照顧,更應該越注意。可以院長跟部長看這個,根據衛福部112年度的低收跟中低收入戶的生活狀況調查報告,112年中低收入戶既有106609戶,較107年是減少了2448戶,但低收卻是"},{"start":884.136,"end":886.74,"text":"在144292戶較107人是增加281戶所以減少2448戶的中低收入戶是脫貧了還是變為低收入戶這個部長知道嗎"},{"start":902.349,"end":923.56,"text":"部長不清楚,這個要做交叉比對啦齁,我相信幕僚要提供給部長跟院長做參考,為什麼這邊會增加這麼多,這邊會減少這麼多,到底是什麼狀況。我這邊有相關的一些報告,這些低收跟中低收拖困的方法,以政府提高補助,他們覺得比較好的方法是還是政府提高補助,33.41啦齁。判執理長大就業是17.68,不知用何種方法是22.73。好,現在問題來了,"},{"start":931.721,"end":938.777,"text":"如果一再的用經費去做補助,我相信政府可能在處理上會有一些知識節節問題。"},{"start":994.721,"end":995.122,"text":"主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:34:37.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:34:40.304000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請院長，還有邱部長。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T16:34:40.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:34:40.924000+08:00","text":"麻煩請卓院長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:34:52.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:34:52.655000+08:00","text":"劉委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:34:53.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:34:54.095000+08:00","text":"院長好，院長辛苦。不會。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:34:54.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:35:01.498000+08:00","text":"院長跟部長請看這個報導：「長照悲歌，病婦弒失智父，改判12年。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:35:03.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:35:16.682000+08:00","text":"」剛剛羅委員特別提到，臺灣已經要進入到2025年超高齡社會，進到超高齡社會最大的一個挑戰，我是從失智症的這個角度來看，所以像這樣的報導會不會越來越加劇，然後情況會不會越來越複雜？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:35:22.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:35:22.869000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:35:22.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:35:49.636000+08:00","text":"因為曾經邱部長在跟我當同事的時候，我一直在強調，一個家庭一人失智，全家喪志，那是很煎熬的，從到底是不是失智症、要確診之前，其實就有一段很難讓人理解的過程，到了他的發病初期、到中期、到末期，坦白講，整個照顧階段是完全不一樣的樣態。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:35:49.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:36:32.825000+08:00","text":"所以我才會特別從失智症角度，要跟院長、跟部長做討論，部長再看下面這個資料，之前台灣失智症協會在2022年推估，2026年65歲以上的失智人口會來到36萬，而衛福部今年推估65歲的失智人口已經達到35萬；同時台灣失智症協會在2022年推估失智症總人口數，2026年是37萬，但今年的推估，臺灣失智症總人口數就已經來到37萬，也就是提早兩年，提早兩年到來了，代表臺灣的失智症人口數急遽地在上升當中。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:36:34.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:36:45.032000+08:00","text":"這個部分我對照一個資料，可能要讓院長跟部長理解，這個事情如果我們不加以去處理的話，可能要付出的社會成本跟代價會更多。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:36:46.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:37:21.754000+08:00","text":"國際失智症協會，我是在十多年前就跟他們的執行長，那是一個法國人，特別到立院來拜會當時的衛環委員會，那時候我當召委，他們相當有權威，就在9月21號公布2024全球失智症報告，其中對臺灣的部分，參與調查臺灣照顧者，對於社區中有足夠的失智者支持服務的認同比例才四成八，不到一半，同時一般民眾認同率才三成二，很低啦，坦白講這是不及格的。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:37:23.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:38:06.009000+08:00","text":"這些數據，如果根據失智症防治照護政策綱領暨行動方案2.0，就是在2018到2025的執行上又出現了非常嚴重的問題，尤其在去年112年、院長跟部長都還沒有到任之前，我們是編了70億，結果僅執行42億，執行率六成一，其實這七項裡面可以看到有一項編得特別多，執行特別糟糕，請院長跟部長特別關注，因為我的時間有限，自己編的，竟然執行率糟糕到這種程度，是不是因為這樣，才讓國際失智症協會在整個調查報告中顯示這樣的數據出來？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:38:06.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:38:25.642000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得只要政府對於失智症的預防及照顧沒有做好，真的會讓臺灣付出更大的成本，甚至照顧的人力跟經費都會持續地一直在往上增加，這個我們一定要因應。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:38:26.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:38:29.605000+08:00","text":"所以我在這邊要具體地拜託，為什麼要特別跟院長拜託？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:38:31.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:38:50.838000+08:00","text":"失智症行動方案3.0要提早，一定要提早，我相信長照3.0總統就已經喊出來了，失智症的照護政策2.0執行率是這個狀態，所以我們應該立即盤整2.0相關的缺失並改正，然後3.0要即刻上路。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:38:51.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:39:10.840000+08:00","text":"所以這邊具體建議部長可以責成、要求，因為這個當時是跨部會的一個行動方案，所以是不是請院長跟部長在一週內訂出要研議的3.0的工作期程，然後儘快用最快速度讓3.0版本可以上路？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:39:13.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:39:19.804000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我想剛剛您那個數字，我也非常地震驚，只有32%的滿意，是不是我們還有機會？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:39:19.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:39:30.028000+08:00","text":"因為這是今年的預算在執行，趕快來看看今年的預算在執行過程當中到底出了哪些問題，不要在明年重複這樣的問題，我想這個檢討必須要先做。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:39:30.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:39:35.331000+08:00","text":"至於新的3.0方案，衛福部是不是手上已經有在研議，或是我們儘快來處理。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:39:36.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:39:44.198000+08:00","text":"現在總統都一直在講長照3.0，其實長照3.0至今還沒有正式要上路……未來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:39:44.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:39:45.519000+08:00","text":"對，未來一定要上路，對不對？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:39:45.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:39:59.093000+08:00","text":"但是總統已經在很多公開場合講到長照3.0，坦白講，我覺得總統是在擔心，甚至也希望要快一點，所以有時候一個階段、一個階段，但是我們的應變速度要更快，所以這個3.0是不是請院長能夠責成在一個禮拜內把工作期程訂出來，然後儘快讓3.0可以上路，可以嗎？","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:39:59.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:40:06.218000+08:00","text":"長照3.0我們是有積極在研究，現在手上的是不是最後的定案，可能還要有一點時間，但是如果這個草案的構想能夠先給委員參考，也請委員指教，這個是可以的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:40:19.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:40:31.305000+08:00","text":"針對失智症行動方案的3.0，我們現在是2.0嘛，雖然還有一年的時間，但是我覺得可以提早來討論、來修正、來研議，讓3.0可以儘快上路，可以嗎？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T16:40:32.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:40:52.702000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們特別在這個方案裡面持續加強，跟長照3.0一樣，在長照跟醫療的結合、發展失智精準的照護，這個就已經有點進階了，我想可以銜接到您所說的3.0希望能夠擴大跟精準。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:40:52.702000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:40:53.702000+08:00","text":"對啦，我是具體要求是不是在一個星期內就可以研擬3.0的工作期程、趕快排出來了，可以吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:40:53.702000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:40:54.702000+08:00","text":"應該是可以吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:40:54.702000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:40:55.702000+08:00","text":"時程排出來呀。對啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:40:55.702000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:40:56.702000+08:00","text":"可以吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:40:56.702000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:40:57.702000+08:00","text":"請衛福部來作業。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:40:57.702000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:40:58.702000+08:00","text":"讓3.0可以儘早上路。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T16:40:58.702000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:40:59.702000+08:00","text":"好，是的。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:40:54.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:41:50.409000+08:00","text":"接下來請院長跟部長再看，臺灣的醫療品質、照護體系是全球有目共睹，但是在偏遠地區的可近性跟醫療量能還是遠不及都會區，蔡前總統在任內推動優化偏鄉醫療精進計畫，從2019年到2023年編列19.5億，但最後僅執行3億，我不曉得什麼原因；然後第二期計畫是2024年到2027年，再編列63.7億要來提升整體的偏鄉醫療品質，確保偏鄉民眾繳一樣的保費，要得到同等的照顧，我相信這是大家都要積極努力打拼的目標。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:41:50.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:42:12.256000+08:00","text":"但是我們根據全民健康保險牙醫門診總額弱勢鄉鎮醫療服務提升獎勵計畫，有209個鄉鎮市區提出申請，對比全國368個鄉鎮市區，我們將近有一半以上缺牙醫，這樣的情況實在是非常恐怖！","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:42:13.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:42:33.056000+08:00","text":"院長跟部長再看我的圖表二，你可以看到我的母縣口湖鄉跟二崙鄉有將近2萬5,000上下的人口，一直到現在，很久一段時間通通沒有牙醫診所，我覺得這樣對偏鄉的百姓而言真的是很不公平的對待！","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:42:33.056000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:42:34.056000+08:00","text":"一樣是賴總統要推的健康臺灣，他其實一直主張偏鄉地區的醫療一定要到位，而且應該把健康當成是一個人權來看待，這個如果一直沒有辦法到位，坦白講，我們政府是會被檢討的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:42:33.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:43:41.685000+08:00","text":"所以我在這個部分也要具體的跟卓院長做這樣的說明，114年度的總預算藍白又擋、又退回去，那關於我們這個計畫期程，第二期今（2024）年一直到2027年我們又編了63.7億；院長跟部長可以再看那個細項，在幾個單位裡面，衛福部的醫事司在今年度就有執行，退輔會也有執行，但114年度在衛福部轄下的相關各司可能都沒有辦法執行，而且114年度的預算是次多的，到時候這樣的預算被擋了、沒辦法執行，那院這邊要怎麼因應、要怎麼處理，院長？","quality":0.645},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:43:44.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:44:04.095000+08:00","text":"請委員支持，我們還是非常積極努力，希望透過各種的溝通方式，也提出不同的折衷方法，希望能夠在大院朝野協商中能夠獲得圓滿的進展，這個也非常謝謝韓院長一直在主持這樣的協商會議，我們希望能夠獲得好的結果跟發展。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:44:04.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:44:11.035000+08:00","text":"我知道院長很努力，這個我都很清楚，但是現在面對到這個問題──都沒有辦法去執行，之前是在醫發基金，你們明年度把它改為公務預算，如果被列被認定為新增項目，基本上如果預算沒有過就不能動了，不能動的時候這些偏鄉醫療要怎麼執行？","quality":0.267},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:44:11.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:44:11.915000+08:00","text":"我認為不至於啦，我們還在努力，我認為不至於。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:44:31.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:44:38.514000+08:00","text":"院長，你答應我不至於，OK，那我們就看114年度它的第二期要如期來實施喔！好的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:44:38.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:44:39.755000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝院長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:44:39.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:45:09.027000+08:00","text":"第三題，我相信院長跟部長也非常在意少子化，這是一個國安問題，院長今年要面對一個難題，今年是龍年，像臺灣在這樣一個習慣裡面，跟生孩子的狀態，龍年是生的最多的時候，但院長你可以看到現在很糟糕，110年是15萬，111年是13.8萬，112年是13.5萬，今年113年，又剛好院長來當院長，怎麼辦？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:45:09.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:45:19.772000+08:00","text":"它有可能沒有辦法破13萬，為什麼這麼說？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:45:19.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:45:23.454000+08:00","text":"我們現在最樂觀的估計是13.2。什麼？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:45:23.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:45:25.535000+08:00","text":"是13.2，最樂觀的估計。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:45:25.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:45:42.226000+08:00","text":"到9月底是97,733，這個數字很恐怖，「狡怪」、「悽慘慘」，我們剩下兩個月多而已，我們要再有三千兩百多個新生兒才有辦法13萬，不是13.2喔！","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:45:42.226000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:45:48.162000+08:00","text":"剩兩個多月，院長，我不曉得你怎麼這麼有信心，可以來到13.2萬。","quality":0.08},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:45:48.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:46:09.760000+08:00","text":"這是我們國發會在人口政策報告當中一個比較樂觀的分析跟預估，其實現在到年底之前，我也不可能把這個數字再做什麼樣的努力，我們都沒有辦法，我們計畫明年能夠維持住這樣的數字，然後再慢慢的設法來提升。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:46:10.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:46:11.621000+08:00","text":"很多面向都要處理啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:46:12.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:46:19.487000+08:00","text":"不是從單一面向去做處理就可以讓生育率提高，因為時間的關係，我這邊有一個建議給院長跟部長做參考，臺灣目前是晚婚晚生嘛！","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:46:21.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:46:41.136000+08:00","text":"現在有幾個地方政府，如臺北、桃園、新竹、苗栗開始有在補助凍卵了，衛福部現在也在研議醫療性凍卵服務嘛，對不對？","quality":0.532},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:46:41.136000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:46:42.136000+08:00","text":"是，醫療性凍卵。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:46:41.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:46:57.843000+08:00","text":"我們要讓年輕的癌症病友，在不影響他整個治療過程的情況之下，萬一有這個機會、可以有這個機會，身體比較回復健康，他還保有生育的機會，那我要具體要求部長是不是能夠擴大一點？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:46:57.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:47:52.557000+08:00","text":"這樣凍卵服務的門開大一點，有些好發在女性的重大疾病應該都可以列入這個參考的範圍裡面，凍卵服務差不多10到15萬左右，還不包含未來保存的經費，地方政府現在已經在實施了，坦白講，少子化是國安問題，國安問題是中央要承擔起來，地方要把它列作地方自治事項，當然我們也樂觀其成，不過因為補助沒有到位，我們去調查這幾個縣市，相關的補助申請幾乎是0，就是說10到15萬，地方政府補助3萬，所以這麼大的一個距離落差，我要請院長是不是可以去思考，因為國安問題是我們中央必須要承擔起來，衛福部也有在研議是不是可以更擴大其範圍，然後院長來支持？","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:47:53.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:48:17.223000+08:00","text":"從政策面的討論，無論是針對少子化，它絕對是一個可以幫忙的，甚至對於婦女她本身希望將來能夠保有生兒育女的機會，這樣身體上的問題，我們能夠提早替她做解決，這個政策討論也絕對是正面的，我們看看衛福部從經費上如何來因應，在最短的時間上怎麼開始來執行，這可以討論的。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:48:18.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:48:24.054000+08:00","text":"部長，就一個月，能不能把這個經費還有研議的相關辦法提出來？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-22T16:48:24.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:48:28.703000+08:00","text":"好的、沒問題，這是很有意義的事情。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:48:28.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:48:43.109000+08:00","text":"最後一題，剩下一分多鐘，賴總統一直在強調，民進黨是以照顧弱勢族群起來的一個政黨，所以越弱勢，我們更應該越照顧、更應該越注意。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:48:45.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:49:04.740000+08:00","text":"給院長跟部長看這個，根據衛福部112年度的低收跟中低收入戶的生活狀況調查報告，112年中低收入計有10萬6,609戶，較107年減少了2,448戶，但低收卻是14萬4,292戶，較107年增加2,851戶，所以減少2,448戶的中低收入戶是脫貧了還是變為低收入戶，這個部長知道嗎？","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:49:20.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:49:20.809000+08:00","text":"部長不清楚？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:49:21.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:49:30.014000+08:00","text":"這個要做交叉比對，幕僚要提供給部長跟院長做參考，為什麼這邊會增加這麼多，這邊會減少這麼多，到底是什麼狀況？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:49:30.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-22T16:49:56.777000+08:00","text":"我這邊有相關的一些報告，這些低收跟中低收入認為脫困的方法，以政府提高補助為多，他們覺得比較好的方法還是政府提高補助占33.41%，盼子女長大就業是17.68%，不知用何種方法是22.73%，現在問題來了，如果一再的用經費去做補助，我相信政府可能在處理上會有一些枝枝節節的問題發生，但是如果不用這種方法補助，還有什麼其他的方法去補助讓他們可以提早脫貧？","quality":0.664},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:49:57.277000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:50:05.562714+08:00","text":"我要請院長跟部長針對這個事情好好地去做一個思考，甚至於跨部會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:50:05.862714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:50:15.862714+08:00","text":"我們會從社會投資這方面來擴大舉行，讓更多的人能夠在生活上得到更滿足的照顧。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:50:16.162714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:50:46.448429+08:00","text":"因為時間的關係，這不是只有衛福部的問題，包含經濟部、包含勞動部都應該坐下來好好地針對這些低收入跟中低收入的脫貧，從他的就業面、從他的職訓、從他是不是有機會可以經營相關比較小規模的事業，我覺得這個是政府應該要來想的事情，好不好？是的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:50:46.748429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:50:47.891286+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-10-22T16:50:48.191286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:50:49.334143+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2024-10-22T16:50:49.634143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:50:50.777000+08:00","text":"部長謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T16:50:51.077000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:50:57.648429+08:00","text":"謝謝劉建國委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及部會首長的備詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T16:50:57.948429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:51:12.234143+08:00","text":"報告院會，本會期自9月20號起對行政院院長施政報告進行質詢，已於今天詢答完畢，謝謝卓院長及各部會列席首長列席答詢。","quality":0.02},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-22T16:51:12.534143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-22T16:51:20.534143+08:00","text":"在質詢結束前，我們再請卓院長對立法院同仁及國人同胞發表感言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":517,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（16時34分）謝謝主席，有請院長，還有邱部長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：劉委員好。"],["劉委員建國：院長好，院長辛苦。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["劉委員建國：院長跟部長請看這個報導：「長照悲歌，病婦弒失智父，改判12年。」剛剛羅委員特別提到，臺灣已經要進入到2025年超高齡社會，進到超高齡社會最大的一個挑戰，我是從失智症的這個角度來看，所以像這樣的報導會不會越來越加劇，然後情況會不會越來越複雜？為什麼？因為曾經邱部長在跟我當同事的時候，我一直在強調，一個家庭一人失智，全家喪志，那是很煎熬的，從到底是不是失智症、要確診之前，其實就有一段很難讓人理解的過程，到了他的發病初期、到中期、到末期，坦白講，整個照顧階段是完全不一樣的樣態。","所以我才會特別從失智症角度，要跟院長、跟部長做討論，部長再看下面這個資料，之前台灣失智症協會在2022年推估，2026年65歲以上的失智人口會來到36萬，而衛福部今年推估65歲的失智人口已經達到35萬；同時台灣失智症協會在2022年推估失智症總人口數，2026年是37萬，但今年的推估，臺灣失智症總人口數就已經來到37萬，也就是提早兩年，提早兩年到來了，代表臺灣的失智症人口數急遽地在上升當中。這個部分我對照一個資料，可能要讓院長跟部長理解，這個事情如果我們不加以去處理的話，可能要付出的社會成本跟代價會更多。國際失智症協會，我是在十多年前就跟他們的執行長，那是一個法國人，特別到立院來拜會當時的衛環委員會，那時候我當召委，他們相當有權威，就在9月21號公布2024全球失智症報告，其中對臺灣的部分，參與調查臺灣照顧者，對於社區中有足夠的失智者支持服務的認同比例才四成八，不到一半，同時一般民眾認同率才三成二，很低啦，坦白講這是不及格的。這些數據，如果根據失智症防治照護政策綱領暨行動方案2.0，就是在2018到2025的執行上又出現了非常嚴重的問題，尤其在去年112年、院長跟部長都還沒有到任之前，我們是編了70億，結果僅執行42億，執行率六成一，其實這七項裡面可以看到有一項編得特別多，執行特別糟糕，請院長跟部長特別關注，因為我的時間有限，自己編的，竟然執行率糟糕到這種程度，是不是因為這樣，才讓國際失智症協會在整個調查報告中顯示這樣的數據出來？","所以我覺得只要政府對於失智症的預防及照顧沒有做好，真的會讓臺灣付出更大的成本，甚至照顧的人力跟經費都會持續地一直在往上增加，這個我們一定要因應。所以我在這邊要具體地拜託，為什麼要特別跟院長拜託？失智症行動方案3.0要提早，一定要提早，我相信長照3.0總統就已經喊出來了，失智症的照護政策2.0執行率是這個狀態，所以我們應該立即盤整2.0相關的缺失並改正，然後3.0要即刻上路。所以這邊具體建議部長可以責成、要求，因為這個當時是跨部會的一個行動方案，所以是不是請院長跟部長在一週內訂出要研議的3.0的工作期程，然後儘快用最快速度讓3.0版本可以上路？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，我想剛剛您那個數字，我也非常地震驚，只有32%的滿意，是不是我們還有機會？因為這是今年的預算在執行，趕快來看看今年的預算在執行過程當中到底出了哪些問題，不要在明年重複這樣的問題，我想這個檢討必須要先做。至於新的3.0方案，衛福部是不是手上已經有在研議，或是我們儘快來處理。"],["劉委員建國：現在總統都一直在講長照3.0，其實長照3.0至今還沒有正式要上路……"],["卓院長榮泰：未來。"],["劉委員建國：對，未來一定要上路，對不對？但是總統已經在很多公開場合講到長照3.0，坦白講，我覺得總統是在擔心，甚至也希望要快一點，所以有時候一個階段、一個階段，但是我們的應變速度要更快，所以這個3.0是不是請院長能夠責成在一個禮拜內把工作期程訂出來，然後儘快讓3.0可以上路，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：長照3.0我們是有積極在研究，現在手上的是不是最後的定案，可能還要有一點時間，但是如果這個草案的構想能夠先給委員參考，也請委員指教，這個是可以的。"],["劉委員建國：針對失智症行動方案的3.0，我們現在是2.0嘛，雖然還有一年的時間，但是我覺得可以提早來討論、來修正、來研議，讓3.0可以儘快上路，可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我們特別在這個方案裡面持續加強，跟長照3.0一樣，在長照跟醫療的結合、發展失智精準的照護，這個就已經有點進階了，我想可以銜接到您所說的3.0希望能夠擴大跟精準。"],["劉委員建國：對啦，我是具體要求是不是在一個星期內就可以研擬3.0的工作期程、趕快排出來了，可以吧？應該是可以吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：時程排出來呀。"],["劉委員建國：對啊！可以吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：請衛福部來作業。"],["劉委員建國：讓3.0可以儘早上路。"],["邱部長泰源：好，是的。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝。接下來請院長跟部長再看，臺灣的醫療品質、照護體系是全球有目共睹，但是在偏遠地區的可近性跟醫療量能還是遠不及都會區，蔡前總統在任內推動優化偏鄉醫療精進計畫，從2019年到2023年編列19.5億，但最後僅執行3億，我不曉得什麼原因；然後第二期計畫是2024年到2027年，再編列63.7億要來提升整體的偏鄉醫療品質，確保偏鄉民眾繳一樣的保費，要得到同等的照顧，我相信這是大家都要積極努力打拼的目標。","但是我們根據全民健康保險牙醫門診總額弱勢鄉鎮醫療服務提升獎勵計畫，有209個鄉鎮市區提出申請，對比全國368個鄉鎮市區，我們將近有一半以上缺牙醫，這樣的情況實在是非常恐怖！院長跟部長再看我的圖表二，你可以看到我的母縣口湖鄉跟二崙鄉有將近2萬5,000上下的人口，一直到現在，很久一段時間通通沒有牙醫診所，我覺得這樣對偏鄉的百姓而言真的是很不公平的對待！一樣是賴總統要推的健康臺灣，他其實一直主張偏鄉地區的醫療一定要到位，而且應該把健康當成是一個人權來看待，這個如果一直沒有辦法到位，坦白講，我們政府是會被檢討的。","所以我在這個部分也要具體的跟卓院長做這樣的說明，114年度的總預算藍白又擋、又退回去，那關於我們這個計畫期程，第二期今（2024）年一直到2027年我們又編了63.7億；院長跟部長可以再看那個細項，在幾個單位裡面，衛福部的醫事司在今年度就有執行，退輔會也有執行，但114年度在衛福部轄下的相關各司可能都沒有辦法執行，而且114年度的預算是次多的，到時候這樣的預算被擋了、沒辦法執行，那院這邊要怎麼因應、要怎麼處理，院長？"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員支持，我們還是非常積極努力，希望透過各種的溝通方式，也提出不同的折衷方法，希望能夠在大院朝野協商中能夠獲得圓滿的進展，這個也非常謝謝韓院長一直在主持這樣的協商會議，我們希望能夠獲得好的結果跟發展。"],["劉委員建國：我知道院長很努力，這個我都很清楚，但是現在面對到這個問題──都沒有辦法去執行，之前是在醫發基金，你們明年度把它改為公務預算，如果被列被認定為新增項目，基本上如果預算沒有過就不能動了，不能動的時候這些偏鄉醫療要怎麼執行？"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為不至於啦，我們還在努力，我認為不至於。"],["劉委員建國：院長，你答應我不至於，OK，那我們就看114年度它的第二期要如期來實施喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["劉委員建國：好，謝謝院長。","第三題，我相信院長跟部長也非常在意少子化，這是一個國安問題，院長今年要面對一個難題，今年是龍年，像臺灣在這樣一個習慣裡面，跟生孩子的狀態，龍年是生的最多的時候，但院長你可以看到現在很糟糕，110年是15萬，111年是13.8萬，112年是13.5萬，今年113年，又剛好院長來當院長，怎麼辦？它有可能沒有辦法破13萬，為什麼這麼說？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在最樂觀的估計是13.2。"],["劉委員建國：什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：是13.2，最樂觀的估計。"],["劉委員建國：到9月底是97,733，這個數字很恐怖，「狡怪」、「悽慘慘」，我們剩下兩個月多而已，我們要再有三千兩百多個新生兒才有辦法13萬，不是13.2喔！剩兩個多月，院長，我不曉得你怎麼這麼有信心，可以來到13.2萬。"],["卓院長榮泰：這是我們國發會在人口政策報告當中一個比較樂觀的分析跟預估，其實現在到年底之前，我也不可能把這個數字再做什麼樣的努力，我們都沒有辦法，我們計畫明年能夠維持住這樣的數字，然後再慢慢的設法來提升。"],["劉委員建國：很多面向都要處理啦！不是從單一面向去做處理就可以讓生育率提高，因為時間的關係，我這邊有一個建議給院長跟部長做參考，臺灣目前是晚婚晚生嘛！現在有幾個地方政府，如臺北、桃園、新竹、苗栗開始有在補助凍卵了，衛福部現在也在研議醫療性凍卵服務嘛，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，醫療性凍卵。"],["劉委員建國：我們要讓年輕的癌症病友，在不影響他整個治療過程的情況之下，萬一有這個機會、可以有這個機會，身體比較回復健康，他還保有生育的機會，那我要具體要求部長是不是能夠擴大一點？這樣凍卵服務的門開大一點，有些好發在女性的重大疾病應該都可以列入這個參考的範圍裡面，凍卵服務差不多10到15萬左右，還不包含未來保存的經費，地方政府現在已經在實施了，坦白講，少子化是國安問題，國安問題是中央要承擔起來，地方要把它列作地方自治事項，當然我們也樂觀其成，不過因為補助沒有到位，我們去調查這幾個縣市，相關的補助申請幾乎是0，就是說10到15萬，地方政府補助3萬，所以這麼大的一個距離落差，我要請院長是不是可以去思考，因為國安問題是我們中央必須要承擔起來，衛福部也有在研議是不是可以更擴大其範圍，然後院長來支持？"],["卓院長榮泰：從政策面的討論，無論是針對少子化，它絕對是一個可以幫忙的，甚至對於婦女她本身希望將來能夠保有生兒育女的機會，這樣身體上的問題，我們能夠提早替她做解決，這個政策討論也絕對是正面的，我們看看衛福部從經費上如何來因應，在最短的時間上怎麼開始來執行，這可以討論的。"],["劉委員建國：部長，就一個月，能不能把這個經費還有研議的相關辦法提出來？"],["邱部長泰源：好的、沒問題，這是很有意義的事情。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝。最後一題，剩下一分多鐘，賴總統一直在強調，民進黨是以照顧弱勢族群起來的一個政黨，所以越弱勢，我們更應該越照顧、更應該越注意。給院長跟部長看這個，根據衛福部112年度的低收跟中低收入戶的生活狀況調查報告，112年中低收入計有10萬6,609戶，較107年減少了2,448戶，但低收卻是14萬4,292戶，較107年增加2,851戶，所以減少2,448戶的中低收入戶是脫貧了還是變為低收入戶，這個部長知道嗎？部長不清楚？這個要做交叉比對，幕僚要提供給部長跟院長做參考，為什麼這邊會增加這麼多，這邊會減少這麼多，到底是什麼狀況？","我這邊有相關的一些報告，這些低收跟中低收入認為脫困的方法，以政府提高補助為多，他們覺得比較好的方法還是政府提高補助占33.41%，盼子女長大就業是17.68%，不知用何種方法是22.73%，現在問題來了，如果一再的用經費去做補助，我相信政府可能在處理上會有一些枝枝節節的問題發生，但是如果不用這種方法補助，還有什麼其他的方法去補助讓他們可以提早脫貧？我要請院長跟部長針對這個事情好好地去做一個思考，甚至於跨部會……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會從社會投資這方面來擴大舉行，讓更多的人能夠在生活上得到更滿足的照顧。"],["劉委員建國：因為時間的關係，這不是只有衛福部的問題，包含經濟部、包含勞動部都應該坐下來好好地針對這些低收入跟中低收入的脫貧，從他的就業面、從他的職訓、從他是不是有機會可以經營相關比較小規模的事業，我覺得這個是政府應該要來想的事情，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["劉委員建國：部長謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝劉建國委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，本會期自9月20號起對行政院院長施政報告進行質詢，已於今天詢答完畢，謝謝卓院長及各部會列席首長列席答詢。在質詢結束前，我們再請卓院長對立法院同仁及國人同胞發表感言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":195,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","陳俊宇","黃捷","李坤城","邱志偉","魯明哲","林沛祥","黃珊珊","陳昭姿","林憶君","羅廷瑋","范雲","李彥秀","王世堅","盧縣一","邱若華","葉元之","何欣純","徐欣瑩","羅美玲","劉建國"],"page_start":109,"meetingDate":["2024-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00004","1138101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138101_00009"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}