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我們是不是有請部長"},{"start":14.554,"end":22.782,"text":"部長長,部長你知不知道你們現在整個煙品的裁罰率非常的低,如果以現在113年1到9月,你們稽查了23萬件,2612件,僅開罰了539件,等於是1萬件才裁罰23件。"},{"start":36.714,"end":48.866,"text":"為什麼整個裁罰率這麼低?你們到底是怎麼在執行的?這就是執行不力啊!那這樣子大家怎麼會擔心怎麼會害怕呢?你們那個嚴重的落差到底出現在哪裡?"},{"start":50.134,"end":56.943,"text":"我想我們查了三四萬件,那23萬件,23萬件,那那個...我要問的就是你裁罰率為什麼這麼低?那有一定的法規確認以後"},{"start":68.699,"end":69.34,"text":"各位請我們柏建署"},{"start":85.527,"end":109.187,"text":"跟委員報告在電子煙上面如果是廣告跟販賣是65件那如果是稀食呢稀食是電子煙加加熱煙是137這麼少你這個比例非常非常的低我要指出來的就是現在按照中華民國的法令稀食電子煙就是違法它跟稀食煙瓶是不一樣的"},{"start":110.208,"end":128.335,"text":"禁止吸食電子煙更何況是販賣製造輸入通通都是不允許的所以你對於這種吸食電子煙的開罰這個董事基金會就講了為什麼吸食不能立刻開罰公然在公共場所吸食電子煙為什麼不能開罰"},{"start":129.235,"end":148.856,"text":"你還要經過程序還要行為人陳述我們的交通法規你一違規照相一拍就立刻開法有陳述的嗎沒有這個就是強力執法那請問你對於電子煙你為什麼不採取這樣的動作他基本上是違法他跟一般你現在傳統的煙品是不一樣那為什麼還需要陳述"},{"start":149.877,"end":166.547,"text":"因為在整個煙害防治法的這整個論文裡面它就是有這個約詢而且要確定但是電子煙是你禁止的你把它跟合法傳統的煙品你那個整個裁法的模式一模一樣難怪你們效率這麼差我要求你們要立刻改善它是違法行為"},{"start":168.988,"end":192.724,"text":"一般稀釋的是有分場所有合法場所跟不合法它是可稀釋但是電子煙你們明文規定它就是禁止稀釋不是嗎是禁止的東西違法上就是應該立刻開罰我覺得這個部分就是你們現在一個很大的漏洞我要求你們要立刻修正立刻採取你的採訪模式第二個你們對於網路上面電子煙"},{"start":194.385,"end":218.225,"text":"這種非法的廣告這麼的猖狂你看我們截取下來的畫面它可以公告說它的銷售已經達到65萬件嚇死人啊這麼龐大的一個銷售量它可以公然列在網路上面就這樣子銷售而我們通過的《煙害防治法》裡面對於這種廣告行為你知道處多少嗎40萬以上"},{"start":220.848,"end":221.068,"text":"王育敏"},{"start":236.815,"end":256.904,"text":"是輸入才是一千萬以上?製造跟輸入都是一千萬嗎?那廣告採訪多少?有採訪嗎?有你們有在稽查嗎?你們現在稽查了幾件?跟委員報告在網路稽查的部分我們大概有三萬多件次的那目前 61件"},{"start":259.873,"end":279.211,"text":"又是這麼懸殊的比例為什麼因為這個網路稽查裁法也是有陳述行政的一些程序我真的要求你們要通盤的去檢討你今天特別針對電子煙的這個部分它是危害最大今天為什麼連法務部都來電子煙已經變成是我們毒品的一個載具了"},{"start":279.992,"end":305.266,"text":"所以他非同小可他跟你傳統煙品的管制你應該就要有另外一套嘛結果你們的裁法模式就是上次修法罰那麼重製造輸入都是1000到5000萬結果你們在執行下來的成果都很差罰的都很少你們整個執行下來現在total的金額才罰了7000多萬所有煙品那電子煙這個部分去修那麼重罰有什麼用你們根本"},{"start":305.766,"end":313.03,"text":"沒有落實嘛所以我要求網路平台這一塊它危害其實非常的巨大你們剛剛3萬件才罰了61件這個也是不符合比例這個為什麼還有陳述的問題呢這個就是依照法令你電子煙是違法你一看燈也是違法就是立刻開法為什麼還有陳述的問題我覺得這一方面這個請衛福部真的要徹底的檢討另外一個我要我請這個法務部也上來法務部檢察司郭司長"},{"start":336.162,"end":337.434,"text":"有關於現在的這個"},{"start":339.259,"end":365.785,"text":"電子煙的問題它已經衍生到就是它是毒品適用的載具所以在源頭的茶器特別是製造跟輸入這方面的打擊犯罪其實非常的重要但是你們現在是分開的對不對有涉及到毒品的才有法務部如果純粹電子煙的都是衛福部這樣子的分工是對的嗎當它已經新型態已經混合在一起了你們不是應該要一起共同打擊犯罪嗎"},{"start":366.938,"end":393.246,"text":"跟委員報告因為電子煙它是一個載體所以那個煙彈如果是毒品的話就會涉及到毒品防治條例的刑責如果沒有的話它其實是行政裁法行政裁法就不在我知道但是實務上現在蠻多其實就是混在一起你懂我意思嗎就是它現在電子煙其實很多都變成是毒品適用的載具了"},{"start":393.686,"end":414.748,"text":"所以如果你們兩個單位還要分得這麼的清楚我只能說以衛福部的力道他要去查緝這一種偷偷已經涉及犯罪的電子煙的廠商其實他們力有未待到目前為止你們看衛福部他的製造方面電子煙的部分製造你們掛的數據是零件你們查到的是零件"},{"start":416.209,"end":423.736,"text":"最新的是那個桃園他有查獲2000萬的這個電子煙市值超過2000萬電子煙你們在製造工廠你們自己的業績是掛零那這樣的一個查緝利盜你認為我們對於打擊這樣的一個非法的電子煙會有成效嗎已經實施一年多了我們抓不到製造但是在網路上面幾十萬幾十萬在賣也那麼多人在抽"},{"start":440.932,"end":465.593,"text":"這個在整體的打擊效應上面不是大打折扣嗎?你們就是兩個單位太會分了嗎?分太開了嗎?這個部分這個我請法務部回去研議喔對於這種新興的樣態你們在打擊犯罪你們應該要加進來要不然我覺得法都是定假的我們現在的煙這個去年修正通過的你如果電子煙的製造輸入"},{"start":467.335,"end":473.704,"text":"違反是一千到五千萬的罰款我就問兩個單位到目前為止有罰過任何一家嗎?你們當時新聞稿寫得很好聽哇我們修法就是重法最高就是五千萬講得好像雷利風行"},{"start":482.884,"end":504.795,"text":"法到目前為止你們總額也才到7千那麼多件也才到7千萬那我相信這個製造跟輸入的應該沒有一家被重罰過5千萬的金額是不是是不是到目前為止沒有一家目前新北跟台北都正在程序中在這個所謂的製造的這個裁罰中所以到目前也只有兩件嗎"},{"start":507.098,"end":530.155,"text":"還有台中三件目前才查到三件但是市面上這麼的氾濫這個法務部這個司長你說一句話法務部該表態了吧我說這件事情光靠衛生單位其實是沒有辦法的犯罪你們比較有辦法那這當中你不要說電子煙是電子煙這當中很多就是混合這個犯罪的手法就在裡面了"},{"start":530.855,"end":553.619,"text":"根委員報告這個本來就在我們這個查緝平台上面包括衛福部都有在這個平台上面那你們製造現在總共才找到三件真的是太少了啦這個我希望這個法務部你們回去就是要好好的研究最後我要講我們現在官方的宣導趕不上煙傷的洗腦"},{"start":556.92,"end":579.633,"text":"我們的速度真的都太慢了你可以看到無論是法務部或者是其他單位你們在網路上面青少年專區的資訊都到111年或112年那你看這一些煙商他怎麼在網路上面去廣告他怎麼洗腦他都說煙彈他是一種更安全更健康的替代吸煙方式"},{"start":580.453,"end":597.646,"text":"西煙就是有害人體健康有更安全跟更健康的嗎那像這一種你們如果你們自己的宣導不利真的是煙傷跑得比你們快了就是不就是花大量的廣告在平台你又不管制他所有的訊息都去洗腦我們的年輕人"},{"start":599.281,"end":622.255,"text":"那這個我們的防治其實效果就會非常的差所以這個部長在打擊電子煙的這一件事情還有就是防止毒品這件事情你真的要硬起來要跟法務部合力而且你們在裁法的部分現在裁法率過低的問題我要求你們一個月之後要交出檢討報告要怎麼改善好不好"},{"start":622.415,"end":622.796,"text":"王育敏議員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:25:31.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:25:33.214000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-23T09:25:33.214000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:25:40.554000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:25:40.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:25:41.335000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:25:41.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:04.836000+08:00","text":"部長你知不知道現在整個菸品的裁罰率非常低，如果以現在113年1到9月來看，你們稽查了23萬2,612件，僅開罰539件，等於1萬件才裁罰23件，為什麼裁罰率這麼低？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:05.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:07.178000+08:00","text":"你們到底是怎麼執行的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:07.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:08.500000+08:00","text":"這就是執行不力啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:09.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:12.063000+08:00","text":"這樣子大家怎麼會擔心、害怕呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:13.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:14.866000+08:00","text":"這個嚴重的落差到底出現在哪裡？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:16.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:17.256000+08:00","text":"我們查了23萬件……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:17.256000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:18.256000+08:00","text":"對，今年到目前為止。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:17.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:20.139000+08:00","text":"23萬件裡面，那個……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:20.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:22.042000+08:00","text":"我要問的是，裁罰率為什麼這麼低？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:22.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:22.823000+08:00","text":"要有一定的法規確認後才裁罰，這有一定的行政程序。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:22.823000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:23.823000+08:00","text":"你們現在的行政程序是有問題的，應該要檢討，特別是我要指出有關電子煙部分。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:23.823000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:24.823000+08:00","text":"在你們裁罰的這23萬件裡面，電子煙占幾件？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:24.823000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:25.823000+08:00","text":"裁罰幾件？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:25.823000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:26.823000+08:00","text":"有沒有統計？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱部長泰源","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:22.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:35.320000+08:00","text":"這可不可以請我們國健署回答？","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"賈副署長淑麗","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:51.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:57.072000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在電子煙方面，如果是廣告跟販賣是65件，那如果是……","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:57.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:26:57.712000+08:00","text":"吸食呢？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"賈副署長淑麗","start":"2024-10-23T09:26:59.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:27:01.596000+08:00","text":"吸食電子煙、加熱菸是137件。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:27:03.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:27:07.180000+08:00","text":"這麼少，你這個比例非常非常的低。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:27:07.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:27:22.030000+08:00","text":"我要指出來的就是，現在按照中華民國的法令，吸食電子煙就是違法，它跟吸食菸品是不一樣的，禁止吸食電子煙，更何況是販賣、製造、輸入，通通都是不允許的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:27:22.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:27:31.494000+08:00","text":"所以對於吸食電子煙的開罰，董氏基金會就講了，為什麼吸食不能立刻開罰？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:27:31.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:27:34.335000+08:00","text":"公然在公共場所吸食電子煙為什麼不能開罰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:27:35.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:27:44.445000+08:00","text":"還要經過程序，還要行為人陳述，我們的交通法規，你只要一違規，照相一拍就立刻開罰，有陳述的嗎？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:27:44.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:27:49.310000+08:00","text":"沒有，這個就是強力執法，那請問你，對於電子煙你為什麼不採取這樣的動作？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:27:49.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:27:54.836000+08:00","text":"它基本上是違法，它跟一般傳統的菸品不一樣，那為什麼還需要陳述？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"賈副署長淑麗","start":"2024-10-23T09:27:55.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:28:02.201000+08:00","text":"因為在整個菸害防制法的規定裡面，它就是有約詢，而且要確定……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:28:02.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:28:25.615000+08:00","text":"但是電子煙是你禁止的，你們對於它跟合法的傳統菸品的裁罰模式一模一樣，難怪你們的效率這麼差，我要求你們要立刻改善，它是違法行為，一般吸食的是有分場，有合法場所跟不合法場所，它是可吸食，但是電子煙，你們明文規定它就是禁止吸食，不是嗎？是。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:28:25.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:28:35.462000+08:00","text":"禁止的東西，違法就是應該要立刻開罰，我覺得這個部分就是你們現在一個很大的漏洞，我要求你們要立刻修正你們採取的裁罰模式。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:28:35.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:04.185000+08:00","text":"第二個，對於網路上面電子煙這種非法的廣告這麼的猖狂，你看我們擷取下來的畫面，它可以公告說它的銷售已經達到65萬件，嚇死人了，這麼龐大的銷售量，它可以公然列在網路上面，就這樣子銷售，而我們通過的菸害防制法裡面對於這種廣告行為你知道罰多少嗎？","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"賈副署長淑麗","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:04.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:04.205000+08:00","text":"40萬以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:04.205000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:13.830000+08:00","text":"不只吧！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:13.830000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:23.455000+08:00","text":"廣告行為的單位，你們列在同一個品項裡面是1,000萬到5,000萬。","quality":0.042},{"speaker":"賈副署長淑麗","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:23.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:24.656000+08:00","text":"我們的廣告是罰40萬以上，製造跟輸入才是1,000萬以上。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:26.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:29.998000+08:00","text":"製造跟輸入都是罰1,000萬，那廣告裁罰多少？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"賈副署長淑麗","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:29.998000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:31.239000+08:00","text":"40萬以上。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:31.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:32.299000+08:00","text":"有裁罰嗎？有。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:32.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:34.921000+08:00","text":"你們有在稽查嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:34.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:35.921000+08:00","text":"你們現在稽查了幾件？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賈副署長淑麗","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:37.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:42.804000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在網路稽查的部分我們大概有三萬多件次，目前……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:42.804000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:44.338500+08:00","text":"裁罰了多少？","quality":0},{"speaker":"賈副署長淑麗","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:44.338500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:45.873000+08:00","text":"61件網路裁罰。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:45.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:48.255000+08:00","text":"又是這麼懸殊的比例，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賈副署長淑麗","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:48.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:29:53.180000+08:00","text":"因為網路稽查裁罰也是有陳述行政的一些程序。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:29:53.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:30:02.148000+08:00","text":"我真的要求你們要通盤的去檢討，今天特別針對電子煙的這一個部分，它是危害最大的，今天為什麼連法務部都來？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:30:02.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:30:30.145000+08:00","text":"因為電子煙已經變成是毒品的一個載具了，所以它非同小可，它跟傳統菸品的管制相較，應該要有另外一套方式，上次修法罰那麼重，製造、輸入都是罰1,000萬到5,000萬，結果你們的裁罰模式執行下來的成果都很差，罰的都很少，你們對於所有菸品整個執行下來現在total的金額才罰了七千多萬，那電子煙這個部分去修那麼重罰有什麼用？","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:30:30.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:30:32.667000+08:00","text":"你們根本沒有落實嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:30:32.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:30:36.289000+08:00","text":"所以我要求網路平臺這一塊，它的危害其實非常的巨大，剛剛你說三萬件才罰了61件，這個也是不符合比例，這個為什麼還有陳述的問題呢？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:30:36.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:30:38.170000+08:00","text":"這個就是依照法令，電子煙是違法，刊登也是違法，就是立刻開罰，為什麼還有陳述的問題？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:30:38.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:30:38.490000+08:00","text":"我覺得這一方面請衛福部真的要徹底的檢討。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:30:38.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:31:20.042000+08:00","text":"另外，我請法務部也上來，法務部檢察司郭司長，有關於現在電子煙的問題，它已經衍生到它是毒品施用的載具，所以在源頭的查緝，特別是製造跟輸入這方面的打擊犯罪其實非常的重要，但是你們現在是分開的，對不對？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:31:20.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:31:27.064000+08:00","text":"有涉及到毒品的才有法務部，如果純粹電子煙的都是衛福部，這樣的分工是對的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:31:27.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:31:31.785000+08:00","text":"當它的新型態已經混合在一起了，你們不是應該要一起共同打擊犯罪嗎？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"郭司長永發","start":"2024-10-23T09:31:32.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:31:47.002000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為電子煙它是一個載體，所以那個煙彈如果是毒品的話，就會涉及到毒品危害防制條例的刑責；如果沒有的話，它其實是行政裁罰，行政裁罰就不在……","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:31:47.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:31:53.404000+08:00","text":"我知道，但是實務上現在蠻多其實就是混在一起，你懂我的意思嗎？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:31:53.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:32:11.478000+08:00","text":"就是現在電子煙很多都變成是毒品施用的載具了，所以如果你們兩個單位還要分得這麼的清楚，我只能說，以衛福部的力道，要去查緝這一種已經涉及犯罪的電子煙的廠商，其實他們力有未逮。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:32:12.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:32:27.254000+08:00","text":"到目前為止，在查緝電子煙製造的部分，衛福部掛的數據是零件，你們查到的是零件，最新的是桃園，它有查獲市值超過2,000萬的電子煙，但在製造工廠的部分，你們自己的業績是掛零。","quality":0.753},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:32:27.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:32:28.555000+08:00","text":"這樣的查緝力道，你認為對於打擊非法的電子煙會有成效嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:32:28.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:32:51.016000+08:00","text":"已經實施一年多了，我們抓不到製造，但是在網路上面幾十萬、幾十萬在賣，也那麼多人在抽，這個在整體的打擊效應上面不是大打折扣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:32:51.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:32:53.958000+08:00","text":"你們就是兩個單位太會分了，分太開了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:32:54.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:33:18.402000+08:00","text":"這個部分我請法務部回去研議，對於這一種新興的樣態，在打擊犯罪上你們應該要加進來，要不然我覺得法都是定假的，我們去年修正通過的法令，如果製造、輸入電子煙是處1,000萬到5,000萬的罰鍰，我就問兩個單位，到目前為止有罰過任何一家嗎？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:33:18.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:33:40.670000+08:00","text":"你們當時新聞稿寫得很好聽，我們修法就是重罰，最高就是5,000萬，講得好像雷厲風行，到目前為止，你們裁罰的總額，那麼多件也才到7,000萬，我相信製造跟輸入的業者應該沒有一家被重罰過5,000萬的金額，是不是？","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:33:41.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:33:42.711000+08:00","text":"是不是到目前為止沒有一家？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賈副署長淑麗","start":"2024-10-23T09:33:43.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:33:46.873000+08:00","text":"目前有關製造的裁罰部分，新北跟臺北都正在程序中。","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:33:49.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:33:50.775000+08:00","text":"所以到目前也只有2件，對不對？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賈副署長淑麗","start":"2024-10-23T09:33:53.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:33:53.838000+08:00","text":"還有臺中，3件。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:33:54.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:34:03.225000+08:00","text":"目前才查到3件，但是市面上這麼的氾濫，司長，你說句話，法務部該表態了吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:34:03.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:34:15.915000+08:00","text":"我說這件事情光靠衛生單位其實是沒有辦法的，對於犯罪你們比較有辦法，你不要說這是電子煙，這當中很多就是混合犯罪的手法在裡面，你們要不要加入這個共同打擊的行列？","quality":0.74},{"speaker":"郭司長永發","start":"2024-10-23T09:34:16.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:34:25.017000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個本來就在我們這個查緝平臺上面，包括衛福部都有在這個平臺上面。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:34:25.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:34:30.178000+08:00","text":"你們在製造的部分現在總共才找到3件，真的是太少了啦！","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:34:31.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:34:34.598000+08:00","text":"我希望法務部你們回去要好好的研究。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:34:35.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:35:01.030000+08:00","text":"最後，我要講，我們現在官方的宣導趕不上菸商的洗腦，我們的速度真的都太慢了，你可以看到，無論是法務部或者是其他單位，你們在網路上面青少年專區的資訊都到111年或112年，你看這一些菸商怎麼在網路上面廣告、它怎麼洗腦？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:35:01.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:35:05.613000+08:00","text":"它都說，煙彈是一種更安全、更健康的替代吸菸方式。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:35:06.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:35:10.416000+08:00","text":"吸菸就是有害人體健康，有更安全跟更健康的嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:35:11.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:35:28.783000+08:00","text":"如果你們自己宣導不力，真的是菸商跑得比你們快了，他們在平臺發大量的廣告，你又不管制，它所有的訊息都去洗腦我們的年輕人，如此我們的防制效果就會非常的差。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:35:29.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T09:35:48.235000+08:00","text":"所以部長，在打擊電子煙這件事情，還有防止毒品這件事情，你真的要硬起來，要跟法務部合力，而且你們在裁罰的部分現在裁罰率過低的問題，我要求你們一個月之後要交出檢討報告，說明要怎麼改善，好不好？可以。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-10-23T09:35:48.735000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:35:56.163571+08:00","text":"謝謝，我們共同來打擊這個有害的菸品，保護青少年的健康，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-23T09:35:56.463571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:36:00.463571+08:00","text":"謝謝王委員，謝謝部長、副署長、司長。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-23T09:36:00.763571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T09:36:04.192143+08:00","text":"接續我們請林月琴委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":452,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（9時25分）謝謝主席，我們有請部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員早。"],["王委員育敏：部長早。部長你知不知道現在整個菸品的裁罰率非常低，如果以現在113年1到9月來看，你們稽查了23萬2,612件，僅開罰539件，等於1萬件才裁罰23件，為什麼裁罰率這麼低？你們到底是怎麼執行的？這就是執行不力啊！這樣子大家怎麼會擔心、害怕呢？這個嚴重的落差到底出現在哪裡？"],["邱部長泰源：我們查了23萬件……"],["王委員育敏：對，今年到目前為止。"],["邱部長泰源：23萬件裡面，那個……"],["王委員育敏：我要問的是，裁罰率為什麼這麼低？"],["邱部長泰源：要有一定的法規確認後才裁罰，這有一定的行政程序。"],["王委員育敏：你們現在的行政程序是有問題的，應該要檢討，特別是我要指出有關電子煙部分。在你們裁罰的這23萬件裡面，電子煙占幾件？裁罰幾件？有沒有統計？"],["邱部長泰源：這可不可以請我們國健署回答？"],["賈副署長淑麗：跟委員報告，在電子煙方面，如果是廣告跟販賣是65件，那如果是……"],["王委員育敏：吸食呢？"],["賈副署長淑麗：吸食電子煙、加熱菸是137件。"],["王委員育敏：這麼少，你這個比例非常非常的低。我要指出來的就是，現在按照中華民國的法令，吸食電子煙就是違法，它跟吸食菸品是不一樣的，禁止吸食電子煙，更何況是販賣、製造、輸入，通通都是不允許的。所以對於吸食電子煙的開罰，董氏基金會就講了，為什麼吸食不能立刻開罰？公然在公共場所吸食電子煙為什麼不能開罰？還要經過程序，還要行為人陳述，我們的交通法規，你只要一違規，照相一拍就立刻開罰，有陳述的嗎？沒有，這個就是強力執法，那請問你，對於電子煙你為什麼不採取這樣的動作？它基本上是違法，它跟一般傳統的菸品不一樣，那為什麼還需要陳述？"],["賈副署長淑麗：因為在整個菸害防制法的規定裡面，它就是有約詢，而且要確定……"],["王委員育敏：但是電子煙是你禁止的，你們對於它跟合法的傳統菸品的裁罰模式一模一樣，難怪你們的效率這麼差，我要求你們要立刻改善，它是違法行為，一般吸食的是有分場，有合法場所跟不合法場所，它是可吸食，但是電子煙，你們明文規定它就是禁止吸食，不是嗎？"],["賈副署長淑麗：是。"],["王委員育敏：禁止的東西，違法就是應該要立刻開罰，我覺得這個部分就是你們現在一個很大的漏洞，我要求你們要立刻修正你們採取的裁罰模式。","第二個，對於網路上面電子煙這種非法的廣告這麼的猖狂，你看我們擷取下來的畫面，它可以公告說它的銷售已經達到65萬件，嚇死人了，這麼龐大的銷售量，它可以公然列在網路上面，就這樣子銷售，而我們通過的菸害防制法裡面對於這種廣告行為你知道罰多少嗎？"],["賈副署長淑麗：40萬以上。"],["王委員育敏：不只吧！廣告行為的單位，你們列在同一個品項裡面是1,000萬到5,000萬。"],["賈副署長淑麗：我們的廣告是罰40萬以上，製造跟輸入才是1,000萬以上。"],["王委員育敏：製造跟輸入都是罰1,000萬，那廣告裁罰多少？"],["賈副署長淑麗：40萬以上。"],["王委員育敏：有裁罰嗎？"],["賈副署長淑麗：有。"],["王委員育敏：你們有在稽查嗎？你們現在稽查了幾件？"],["賈副署長淑麗：跟委員報告，在網路稽查的部分我們大概有三萬多件次，目前……"],["王委員育敏：裁罰了多少？"],["賈副署長淑麗：61件網路裁罰。"],["王委員育敏：又是這麼懸殊的比例，為什麼？"],["賈副署長淑麗：因為網路稽查裁罰也是有陳述行政的一些程序。"],["王委員育敏：我真的要求你們要通盤的去檢討，今天特別針對電子煙的這一個部分，它是危害最大的，今天為什麼連法務部都來？因為電子煙已經變成是毒品的一個載具了，所以它非同小可，它跟傳統菸品的管制相較，應該要有另外一套方式，上次修法罰那麼重，製造、輸入都是罰1,000萬到5,000萬，結果你們的裁罰模式執行下來的成果都很差，罰的都很少，你們對於所有菸品整個執行下來現在total的金額才罰了七千多萬，那電子煙這個部分去修那麼重罰有什麼用？你們根本沒有落實嘛！所以我要求網路平臺這一塊，它的危害其實非常的巨大，剛剛你說三萬件才罰了61件，這個也是不符合比例，這個為什麼還有陳述的問題呢？這個就是依照法令，電子煙是違法，刊登也是違法，就是立刻開罰，為什麼還有陳述的問題？我覺得這一方面請衛福部真的要徹底的檢討。","另外，我請法務部也上來，法務部檢察司郭司長，有關於現在電子煙的問題，它已經衍生到它是毒品施用的載具，所以在源頭的查緝，特別是製造跟輸入這方面的打擊犯罪其實非常的重要，但是你們現在是分開的，對不對？有涉及到毒品的才有法務部，如果純粹電子煙的都是衛福部，這樣的分工是對的嗎？當它的新型態已經混合在一起了，你們不是應該要一起共同打擊犯罪嗎？"],["郭司長永發：跟委員報告，因為電子煙它是一個載體，所以那個煙彈如果是毒品的話，就會涉及到毒品危害防制條例的刑責；如果沒有的話，它其實是行政裁罰，行政裁罰就不在……"],["王委員育敏：我知道，但是實務上現在蠻多其實就是混在一起，你懂我的意思嗎？就是現在電子煙很多都變成是毒品施用的載具了，所以如果你們兩個單位還要分得這麼的清楚，我只能說，以衛福部的力道，要去查緝這一種已經涉及犯罪的電子煙的廠商，其實他們力有未逮。到目前為止，在查緝電子煙製造的部分，衛福部掛的數據是零件，你們查到的是零件，最新的是桃園，它有查獲市值超過2,000萬的電子煙，但在製造工廠的部分，你們自己的業績是掛零。這樣的查緝力道，你認為對於打擊非法的電子煙會有成效嗎？已經實施一年多了，我們抓不到製造，但是在網路上面幾十萬、幾十萬在賣，也那麼多人在抽，這個在整體的打擊效應上面不是大打折扣嗎？你們就是兩個單位太會分了，分太開了。","這個部分我請法務部回去研議，對於這一種新興的樣態，在打擊犯罪上你們應該要加進來，要不然我覺得法都是定假的，我們去年修正通過的法令，如果製造、輸入電子煙是處1,000萬到5,000萬的罰鍰，我就問兩個單位，到目前為止有罰過任何一家嗎？你們當時新聞稿寫得很好聽，我們修法就是重罰，最高就是5,000萬，講得好像雷厲風行，到目前為止，你們裁罰的總額，那麼多件也才到7,000萬，我相信製造跟輸入的業者應該沒有一家被重罰過5,000萬的金額，是不是？是不是到目前為止沒有一家？"],["賈副署長淑麗：目前有關製造的裁罰部分，新北跟臺北都正在程序中。"],["王委員育敏：所以到目前也只有2件，對不對？"],["賈副署長淑麗：還有臺中，3件。"],["王委員育敏：目前才查到3件，但是市面上這麼的氾濫，司長，你說句話，法務部該表態了吧？我說這件事情光靠衛生單位其實是沒有辦法的，對於犯罪你們比較有辦法，你不要說這是電子煙，這當中很多就是混合犯罪的手法在裡面，你們要不要加入這個共同打擊的行列？"],["郭司長永發：跟委員報告，這個本來就在我們這個查緝平臺上面，包括衛福部都有在這個平臺上面。"],["王委員育敏：你們在製造的部分現在總共才找到3件，真的是太少了啦！我希望法務部你們回去要好好的研究。","最後，我要講，我們現在官方的宣導趕不上菸商的洗腦，我們的速度真的都太慢了，你可以看到，無論是法務部或者是其他單位，你們在網路上面青少年專區的資訊都到111年或112年，你看這一些菸商怎麼在網路上面廣告、它怎麼洗腦？它都說，煙彈是一種更安全、更健康的替代吸菸方式。吸菸就是有害人體健康，有更安全跟更健康的嗎？如果你們自己宣導不力，真的是菸商跑得比你們快了，他們在平臺發大量的廣告，你又不管制，它所有的訊息都去洗腦我們的年輕人，如此我們的防制效果就會非常的差。所以部長，在打擊電子煙這件事情，還有防止毒品這件事情，你真的要硬起來，要跟法務部合力，而且你們在裁罰的部分現在裁罰率過低的問題，我要求你們一個月之後要交出檢討報告，說明要怎麼改善，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：可以。"],["王委員育敏：謝謝，我們共同來打擊這個有害的菸品，保護青少年的健康，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員，謝謝部長、副署長、司長。","接續我們請林月琴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-5","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","王育敏","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王正旭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","林淑芬","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","涂權吉","李坤城","洪孟楷","林國成","張雅琳","陳培瑜","郭昱晴","徐富癸","楊曜","葉元之","黃秀芳","陳瑩","盧縣一"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、法務部、內政部、財政部、教育部列席就「有關新興煙毒品防制及強化虐\n童防治作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}