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區的話應該是其每有幾個大的場會受到影響大部分的中小企業應該就不太會受到影響"},{"start":59.983,"end":66.412,"text":"目前目前我們是依照年排放量達2.5萬公噸61家我們依照的標準因為依這個標準是明年我們1月1號就要開始了嘛"},{"start":75.509,"end":94.185,"text":"對,我二就115年才課徵。114開始申報。當然當然,就是115年是依照114年整個碳排放量的一個統整數字,然後115年再去做課徵嘛。所以我們講還是要從114年1月開始。對,開始開始來處理。對不對。所以呢,在這樣的狀況之下,我們也會隨時去做調整嘛。"},{"start":101.656,"end":125.552,"text":"對不對,現在是2.5萬,有可能也會再往下,是不是?我們請,順便請次長。我們的那個施次長。是不是?委員好,我們的溫室氣體要申報盤查的對象,我們確實有規劃往下,但是要納到碳費收費可能不會那麼快,不會那麼快。"},{"start":127.153,"end":145.604,"text":"重點是說我們要怎麼協助他趕快去因應趕快去轉型我們現在先告訴大家先預知就是希望他未來不要進入到這所謂的一個門檻當中對不對我們當然不希望他們去課徵到這個碳費啊"},{"start":147.865,"end":171.637,"text":"這才是我們要達到2050這個完全減碳這樣一個重要的關鍵嘛但是如果是這樣子的前提之下我們要怎麼協助這些中小企業好以2.5萬這樣的一個標準就有臺南有61家好61家那有可能造成衝擊"},{"start":174.022,"end":203.146,"text":"那造成衝擊我們怎麼協助他?那個蓮市長。各位報告,我們其實針對目前已經是達到那個我們現在法定的那個收費的那個門檻二的,我們在14年會有一個專案計畫,整體針對製造會這500多家,500多家,270家500個場所,我們會全部來協助,第一個一定要協助他提到自主減量計畫,因為你有提自主減量計畫你才可以享受,因為這是一個最大的一個誘因。第二個,"},{"start":203.746,"end":204.929,"text":"我們會針對這500多家我們會來協助他"},{"start":208.899,"end":217.961,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之"},{"start":239.366,"end":259.161,"text":"我們是用產創平台那個計劃對,產創平台沒有編入我們正式預算嗎?因為我們產創平台是一個大鋪有二、三十億的淨位在那邊那我們是會把他說你有這樣的需求我們會來誘導他來申請這樣的一個計劃用產創平台的這樣的一個預算"},{"start":264.744,"end":289.884,"text":"這是基金還是專案預算?那個專案預算。對嘛,專案預算嘛。產創平台的專案預算。那明年編多少?明年我們多少錢?預計在這個區塊,還是沒有任何上限?有申請上限。對啊,那申請上限多少?我們醫後條例是,如果是減碳的話,一般是到最高是4千萬。"},{"start":290.984,"end":312.649,"text":"多少?來,那個直接署長講就好了,直接講,對。跟委員報告,我們在一後條例的時候,事實上已經先寫住一波了,從112年到124年,用一大代小的方式,那一大代小個案的上限是3000,對不起,一大代小的是整個案子,是3000,然後呢,個案的部分是500。"},{"start":314.449,"end":334.247,"text":"三千萬、五百萬,幾萬我都不知道,你協助什麼人?你協助了誰?我們把名單整理一下再給人參考。你協助了誰?然後成效多少?請把這個資料報給我們。那你現在要怎麼去協助臺南這61家?"},{"start":336.457,"end":348.385,"text":"因為第一階段他們就達到了就有可能就是如果沒有做自主減量的時候有可能他們就會達到這樣的一個碳排量那可能115年就會被課到"},{"start":349.44,"end":354.424,"text":"是的,我們明年開始要協助這61家都提出自主減量計畫。你怎麼協助我要這個報告?你怎麼協助這61家你要去盤點呢?我們會有一個範本,然後每一家廠商進去。這是重點,市長,我要講的就是這樣子。這61家請問,有誰能夠得到你的資訊?如果沒有這樣子要求你們,你們可能"},{"start":375.683,"end":387.776,"text":"沒有沒有沒有,我們那個清單都有,我們在環境部的清單都有,我們一定每一家都會進去。我知道,市長我知道清單你們有,我要的是你們可以直接跟他們對接,把你們的資料直接對接,61家直接對接。"},{"start":392.28,"end":419.273,"text":"會,我要這些資訊是不是有真正達到他們的手裡然後去做一些技術的協助然後成效如何,我要這些資料好,那個自主減量計畫我們每一家一定要催出來催出來之後我們還會請專家幫他看過看完之後才送到環境部市長不是催,是你應該跟他講我可以提供技術"},{"start":420.663,"end":435.438,"text":"我可以提供預算我記住在哪裡預算在哪裡辦法怎麼寫其實我們每次我們都很優質的中小企業可是一碰到要寫這些繁雜的計畫"},{"start":437.453,"end":438.474,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長．"},{"start":457.005,"end":457.225,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長．"},{"start":477.117,"end":501.402,"text":"那麼我們才有機會再進入到第二階?對對對對對因為這個部分很明顯嘛他就很清楚一定會對於這個這個碳費的徵收如果沒有去協助他們絕對會轉嫁在一些所謂衝擊中小企業廠商的一個身上然後呢如果在逐年降低的時候"},{"start":502.102,"end":526.036,"text":"因為環境部是有這樣的一個思考方向嘛他們要逐年降低嘛才能去達到2050的標準嘛那逐年降低那是不是代表我們第一屆兩萬五這個部分如果沒有處理好你下面要怎麼去繼續這個我們一定要協助廠商一定要處理好所以這個部分我要控管這樣的一個所謂的"},{"start":526.736,"end":528.357,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．"},{"start":547.088,"end":553.918,"text":"我講的就是臺南市有61家這六十一間你如果做得好我相信五百幾間你一定做得好所以臺南61家希望隨時把進度給我們你怎麼輔導怎麼讓他們能夠進入到所謂自主減量的部分"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":389,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（10時21分）謝謝召委。我們請次長。"],["主席：哪一位次長？"],["陳委員亭妃：連次長。"],["主席：請經濟部連次長。"],["連次長錦漳：委員早。"],["陳委員亭妃：連次長早。次長，我想請教一下，我們現在傳統產業在這個區塊要怎麼去因應整個未來碳費徵收所造成的營運成本增加？"],["連次長錦漳：現在應該是500個場所、兩百七十幾家，如果就臺南地區的話應該是奇美幾個大的廠會受到影響，大部分的中小企業應該就不太會受到影響。"],["陳委員亭妃：目前我們是依照年排放量達2.5萬公噸……"],["連次長錦漳：2.5萬噸的六十幾家。"],["陳委員亭妃：61家。"],["連次長錦漳：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們依這樣的標準，因為依這個標準是明年1月1號就要開始了嘛？"],["連次長錦漳：就是115年才課徵，114開始申報。"],["陳委員亭妃：當然，當然！就是115年是依照114年整個碳排放量的統整數字，然後115年再課徵，所以我們講還是要從114年1月開始。"],["連次長錦漳：對，開始處理。"],["陳委員亭妃：對不對？所以在這樣的狀況之下，我們也會隨時去做調整嘛！對不對？現在是2.5萬，有可能也會再往下，是不是？順便請施次長。"],["連次長錦漳：應該不會啊！"],["陳委員亭妃：是不是？"],["施次長文真：委員好。對於溫室氣體要申報盤查的對象，我們確實有規劃往下，但是要納到碳費收費可能不會那麼快。"],["陳委員亭妃：當然。"],["施次長文真：對，不會那麼快。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是重點是我們要怎麼協助它趕快去因應、趕快去轉型？我們現在先告訴大家、先諭知，就是希望它未來不要進入到所謂的門檻當中。"],["施次長文真：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：對不對？"],["施次長文真：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們當然不希望他們課徵到碳費啊！這才是我們要達到2050完全減碳這樣一個重要的關鍵嘛！但是如果是這樣子的前提之下，我們要怎麼協助這些中小企業？好，以2.5萬這樣的一個標準，臺南就有61家，有61家可能造成衝擊，造成衝擊，我們怎麼協助它？連次長。"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，針對目前已經達到法定收費門檻的2.5萬，我們在114年會有一個專案計畫，整體針對製造業這五百多家，即270家、500個場所，我們會全部協助，第一個，一定要協助他們提出自主減量計畫，因為有提自主減量計畫才可以享受優惠，這是一個最大的誘因。第二個，我們會針對這五百多家來協助他們做一些節能減碳，因為我們現在也在推……"],["陳委員亭妃：好，五百多家，我們今天要協助他們自主減碳、減量……"],["連次長錦漳：提自主減量計畫。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，要提自主減量計畫，對不對？好，我們有補助，是這樣嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：我們會協助，然後如果你要有一些……"],["陳委員亭妃：怎麼協助？"],["連次長錦漳：會有一些降碳的技術，我們會提供一些獎勵補助。"],["陳委員亭妃：獎勵補助？還是技術協助？"],["連次長錦漳：技術協助跟獎勵補助都有包含在內。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以都有預算，明年編多少？在這個區塊編多少？"],["連次長錦漳：我們是用產創平臺那個計畫。"],["陳委員亭妃：產創平臺，沒有列入正式的預算嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：因為產創平臺是一個大pool，有2、30億經費在那邊，如果有這樣的需求，我們會誘導他們來申請這樣的計畫。"],["陳委員亭妃：用產創平臺的預算？"],["連次長錦漳：嗯。"],["陳委員亭妃：是基金，還是專案預算？"],["連次長錦漳：是專案預算，科技預算。"],["陳委員亭妃：對嘛！是產創平臺的專案預算？"],["連次長錦漳：對，對。"],["陳委員亭妃：明年預計在這個區塊編多少？還是沒有任何上限？"],["連次長錦漳：欸，有申請上限。"],["陳委員亭妃：申請上限多少？"],["連次長錦漳：根據疫後條例，如果是減碳的話，一般最高是4,000萬。"],["陳委員亭妃：多少？來！請署長直接講。"],["楊署長志清：跟委員報告，我們在疫後條例事實上已經先協助一波了，從112年到114年，用以大帶小的方式，整個案子是3,000，然後個案部分是500……"],["陳委員亭妃：3,000萬、500萬？"],["楊署長志清：是，已經有協助過一波了，接下來……"],["陳委員亭妃：3,000萬、500萬，奇怪我們怎麼都不知道，你們是協助誰？協助了誰？"],["連次長錦漳：我們可以把臺南地區的名單……"],["楊署長志清：我們把名單整理一下再給委員參考。"],["陳委員亭妃：你協助了誰、成效多少，請把這個資料報給我們。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["楊署長志清：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，那你現在要怎麼協助臺南的這61家？因為第一階段他們已經達到了，就是如果沒有做自主減量，有可能他們就會達到這樣的碳排量，115年就會被課碳費，是不是？"],[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Kacaw","鄭正鈐","蔡易餘","賴瑞隆","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","廖偉翔","陳超明"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長就「我國碳費徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估，及政府協助企\n業因應之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就\n「我國碳邊境調整機制（CBAM）推動規劃」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138702_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}