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有請部長、廉政署、調查局、警政署廉政署、調查局、警政署"},{"start":36.636,"end":63.161,"text":"部長,請問您吼,你有看過貓玩老鼠嗎?你有在滑短影片嗎?不管是Youtuber啊,還是說Rio啊,還是說Trey啊,還是說Tiktok啊,你有在滑短影片嗎?如果你有滑短影片吼,你一定會看過貓玩老鼠的短影片,因為在"},{"start":63.908,"end":81.253,"text":"這些短影片上面是非常紅的那你知道貓是怎麼樣玩老鼠的嗎部長我不清楚貓抓到老鼠不把老鼠直接吃掉不斷地鬥牠然後一直用牠的手掌拍打牠"},{"start":82.383,"end":111.124,"text":"他不動也打他動也打就是完全是在一個食物鏈上的一個上端者的一個架勢生殺認他就是玩他慢慢的玩死他我再問一次部長你有沒有看過貓玩老鼠我沒有養貓所以我不清楚我告訴你部長你怎麼會沒有看過現在就是活生生血淋淋法務部在玩貓玩老鼠啊"},{"start":113.117,"end":139.192,"text":"你知道在玩誰嗎我們的檢調司法單位在玩誰你知道嗎就在玩柯文哲就在玩柯文哲我先跟部長說柯文哲如果貪污受賄今天違法犯紀我贊成今天我們司法查辦他把他關起來可是今天在柯文哲案件上"},{"start":140.612,"end":164.129,"text":"我跟部長說說實在話真的是太過分啦看不下去偵查不公開被凌辱到這種程度那是司法之恥啊是法務部跟檢調之恥啊我當然知道部長你跟我講了一百遍說不是檢察官放的沒關係我後面再跟你慢慢講我想請教一下"},{"start":165.629,"end":189.782,"text":"我在透過立法院新聞知識庫去查過去三個月有關柯文哲的新聞找到了4057則這個資料庫沒有包括大多數的網媒跟電子媒體裡面琳瑯滿目都是偵查大公開的新聞我整理幾個新聞就叫部長好不好我想請教就在今天的新聞"},{"start":191.404,"end":217.632,"text":"檢連：廉政署也進來了：偵辦金華城容積率弊案：懷疑前臺北市長、民眾黨主席柯文哲明知違背法律開綠燈：讓金華城取得超高容積率涉土利：亦懷疑柯文哲受賄：其中一種可能管道就是包含虛擬貨幣：檢連日前搜索時扣到柯文哲一個冷錢包："},{"start":218.752,"end":246.442,"text":"正在破解當中來想請教部長我幫你回答啦齁你一定說這不是檢察官放的嘛對不對這是不是檢察官放的我相信不是檢察官而且你相信啊我相信你上次也相信說今天你上次也相信說今天大法官實質廢死之後齁然後法官會同意你的申請羈押不把那37個死刑犯放出來啦但你相信有用嗎"},{"start":249.005,"end":256.976,"text":"部長,你會相信能夠去左右法院的判決嗎?你會相信真的能夠代表檢察官沒有洩密嗎?"},{"start":259.192,"end":285.323,"text":"我只問啊,你就是一句相信檢察官我告訴你啦,北檢最聰明啦,說無法證實啦北檢跟我講無法證實啦因為我沒辦法去干涉、指導、解無可藥那你要相信什麼?你一不干涉、二不指導、三不了解、四不查查你現在跟我講相信,相信有意義嗎?來沒關係,我跟你講因為你回答太多遍,我可以幫你倒背如流不是檢察官放的啦,結束啦"},{"start":286.323,"end":304.485,"text":"那我想請問齁如果檢聯真的扣了這個那個冷錢包 不關冷錢包啦反正任何證物啦扣了以後請問會經手哪些人偵查訊息會經手哪些人檢察官一定會有嘛 陳辦檢察官這個這個我不清楚反正會接觸到拜託"},{"start":306.243,"end":317.09,"text":"部長你是幹過檢察官的你要不要請主席來開示一下主席我會議詢問啦明天要打開時間暫停我中止我會議詢問因為這個問題要問專業嘛主席我請教我會議詢問一下法務部不肯回答請問你身為檢察官當過檢察官沒關係啦沒關係部長你先休息一下齁我問專業的你今天你當過檢察官你不懂問專業的嘛專業的來啊"},{"start":336.624,"end":349.339,"text":"主席會議詢問我想請教主席今天如果真的收到柯文哲冷錢包請問除了檢察官會所謂的經手這個訊息之外還有誰"},{"start":351.236,"end":352.257,"text":"部長 專業檢察官示範什麼叫做回答問題"},{"start":380.151,"end":399.396,"text":"他講的錯了嗎?我們主席說的錯了沒有?有沒有錯?我準備這是要跟委員報告就是反正第五條你一開始跟我講你不知道現在你終於要準備了謝謝主席幫你示範你開始準備我不談那個沒有關係來來來我告訴你我要到我要的答案了啦你會後再補充沒關係來 廉政署是你放的嗎?我們嚴守偵查部門欸欸欸 非常好啊你也不知道啊因為不是你不是承辦人啦對不對來 警政署"},{"start":409.872,"end":437.901,"text":"是警察放的嗎?這個案警察應該沒有接觸了欸欸 非常好齁來 我們請司法院來 司法院我們的副秘書長各位請上來一下法官會放嗎?不會嘛太完美了 通通都不放鐵定是柯文哲律師放出去整柯文哲阿柯文哲太英明了搞一個律師去整他一天到晚放消息整死柯文哲原來那隻貓"},{"start":439.867,"end":443.052,"text":"不是司法檢調是柯文哲律師誒來來部長部長你相信嗎柯文哲那麼蠢啊搞一個律師一天到晚洩他的消息弄他啊"},{"start":453.365,"end":474.597,"text":"所以我要跟你講 沒關係 我知道 因為我說我哪裡沒辦法啦你一直跟我講不是檢察官 對不對 證書也否認 廉政署也否認然後呢 司法院也否認啊 大家都否認啊 否認得非常開心啊 對不對我也沒辦法 因為我不是檢察官 我不是偵查主體啦我也沒有偵查工具啦 偵查主體是誰 犯罪偵查主體是誰"},{"start":482.824,"end":484.845,"text":"檢察官三個字你耗我十秒鐘再問你偵查主題是誰檢察官"},{"start":509.289,"end":534.716,"text":"所以我要跟部長說啊來我來問一下一個問題請問洩漏秘密啊洩漏偵查中的秘密是犯哪一條罪啊那個刑法132條第一項嘛公務員洩漏或交付關於中華民國國防以外一秘密之文書、圖畫、消息、物品除三年以下有期徒刑偵查不公開被打破不是行政範疇的問題"},{"start":536.554,"end":563.382,"text":"偵查不公開被打破是犯罪問題沒錯吧?如果有人洩密是犯罪問題吧?這個如果有的具體施政我們就會演講到終於我覺得部長經過我們會議主席再三的來去回答問題之後現在部長回答問題稍微比較順暢一點點我告訴你來那我就問啦我上次問了你一個案子你說你不認同"},{"start":565.096,"end":589.093,"text":"竊盜案的偵查主體是誰?犯罪?竊盜案任何犯罪的偵查主體都是檢察官當然都是檢察官嘛阿如果發生兩千件竊盜案今天我問部長說欸奇怪啦一件都沒抓到欸一件都沒起訴欸一件都沒判刑欸然後部長跟我講這不是檢察官偷的你能夠用這句話交代我嗎?"},{"start":592.629,"end":608.311,"text":"當然不能啊那我同樣問你啊這麼多 你的法務部都列幾千件啦我大概數字跟你講然後到現在為止你起訴幾件又處分到45件我起訴啦 犯罪耶我不講行政處分 我講起訴幾件啦"},{"start":610.444,"end":627.49,"text":"他是犯罪事實 如果有洩密就是犯罪事實啊這個 我想偵查不公開不是就一定就會成立一百三十二我告訴你當然你不抓就不成立嘛還不簡單我告訴你我今天如果說我們法務部說我跟你講竊盜我跟你講我只要證明不是檢察官弄的我不抓竊盜也不成立啊"},{"start":629.448,"end":642.791,"text":"你現在脫離人民感情多遠啊我今天講的還不只是柯文哲我講的是犯罪的偵查不公開已經琳瑯滿目到可以百貨公司陳列商品啦剛剛委員講的說7000多件那個是媒體的報導的那個不是是我要講是媒體有報導的新聞我告訴你你們自己都知道媒體報導的新聞是這樣還搞了7000多件不只7000多件今天上半年加2000件是9000多件你們成長速度非常快來我跟你講"},{"start":659.515,"end":674.165,"text":"我剛剛講忍錢包因為只有這一件來週刊報導柯文哲隨身諜內的金主名單黃崇仁董事長名列其中請問是不是檢察官放我幫你回答不是檢察官不用查了"},{"start":675.226,"end":699.971,"text":"週刊報導民眾黨主席涉及金華城弊案建聯發動搜索前要貼身帳房舉止徐子瑜出貨幣風頭如今更掌握柯下達重要指示給舉止要他保護好手上400萬還要到民眾黨拿錢請問有沒有洩密我幫你回答沒有因為不是檢察官放的所以沒有洩密罪柯文哲被找到嫌私簡訊柯文哲USB寄的審慶金1500柯文哲圈圈叉叉點點點"},{"start":704.392,"end":715.427,"text":"我告訴你過去這三個月你們現在司法檢調掌握偵查訊息一天到晚公開然後你跟我講不是檢察官放的不是廉政署放的結束了"},{"start":717.281,"end":733.613,"text":"那我才跟你講為什麼把偵查不公開廢掉嘛接觸那個第5條那個作為報的第5條裡面來我想請教我們就來問下一個問題阿我想問問問部長齁來看有沒有好好的去查案阿好不好你跟我講查不到這樣"},{"start":734.794,"end":763.033,"text":"偵查不公開事實放在眼前你不去查查了是犯罪啦 查到是犯罪啦查不到就無能啦 就這麼簡單那我馬上來跟您提供一個訊息請問部長 你們當然也不是沒去查啦 你們有去查三立記者啦 對不對有查三立記者如果今天你們已經發現有人公開指稱調查官跟特定媒體合作洩露偵查資訊 有人公開表示"},{"start":764.894,"end":779.661,"text":"特定檢察官跟特定媒體合作洩露偵查資訊請問我們今天局長我們部長會不會去查我們請局長回答好來來來調查局局長來局長副局長會不會去查有人公開直接講啦"},{"start":784.229,"end":806.307,"text":"如果公開有這樣的訊息的話我們一定會去瞭解一定會去查一定會 保證感謝你 馬上提供你約談一個人之前我要再問部長三立記者事件如果有人公開聲稱知道是哪間媒體跟哪個檢察官合作法務部要不要去確認一下約談一下至少 要不要"},{"start":808.795,"end":835.481,"text":"剛剛局長說要啊,你不要跟我講就不要啦那個刑訴書啊,228條,如果說有真的違反偵查法規有涉及到130條好啦好啦,那局長,局長你上來,局長你上來因為我真的是,我對部長我已經是尊敬到無以復加了啦每個問題都要給我繞一大圈來,請問局長你剛剛答應說要查嘛,對不對?沒錯吧?對啊,如果有人就說要知道哪些媒體跟哪個檢察官合作啊、洩密啊,要不要查?"},{"start":836.625,"end":856.441,"text":"喂你剛講是調查官如果是調查官的話齁我們一定會去調查又要推給法務部啦來沒關係請放影片哪個檢察官特地會跟哪個媒體配合這個大家都很清楚來來哪個檢察官他知道哪個檢察官喔會跟哪個媒體他知道哪個媒體喔欸都超級具體啦查不查啊"},{"start":866.095,"end":881.666,"text":"先約談一下柯建民吧他說公開講他知道啦那你要不要查一下也許他就是他跟你你查了以後他說冷銷我也可以接受啦但是你已經講過你要不要查對不對不要講個案今天所有的案件都類似這個狀況以上謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:47:06.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:47:10.862000+08:00","text":"主席，有請部長、廉政署、調查局、警政署。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-23T10:47:11.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:47:13.845000+08:00","text":"麻煩部長，還有廉政署、調查局、警政署。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:47:23.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:47:30.697000+08:00","text":"部長，請問您有看過貓玩老鼠嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:47:30.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:47:32.478000+08:00","text":"你有在滑短影片嗎？沒有。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:47:32.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:47:44.780000+08:00","text":"不管是YouTube還是說Reels、還是說Threads、還是說TikTok，你有在滑短影片嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:47:44.780000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:47:45.780000+08:00","text":"沒有，我因為太忙了，我沒有時間去看。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:47:44.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:47:59.210000+08:00","text":"如果你有滑短影片，你一定看過貓玩老鼠的短影片，因為這在短影片上面是非常紅的，你知道貓是怎麼樣玩老鼠的嗎？部長。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:47:59.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:47:59.870000+08:00","text":"我不清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:48:01.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:48:24.334000+08:00","text":"貓抓到老鼠，不把老鼠直接吃掉，不斷的逗牠，然後一直用牠的手掌拍打牠，牠不動也打，牠動也打，完全就是食物鏈上端者的一個架式，生殺任牠，就是玩牠，慢慢的玩死牠，我再問一次部長，你有沒有看過貓玩老鼠？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:48:26.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:48:27.596000+08:00","text":"我沒有養貓，所以我不清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:48:27.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:48:33.320000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，部長，你怎麼會沒有看過！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:48:33.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:48:41.938000+08:00","text":"現在就是活生生、血淋淋的法務部在玩貓玩老鼠，你知道在玩誰嗎？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:48:41.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:48:45.860000+08:00","text":"我們的檢調司法單位在玩誰，你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:48:45.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:48:46.521000+08:00","text":"就在玩柯文哲！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:48:49.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:48:50.043000+08:00","text":"就在玩柯文哲！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:48:50.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:49:30.189000+08:00","text":"我先跟部長說，柯文哲如果貪污受賄，違法犯紀，我贊成我們司法查辦他，把他關起來，可是今天在柯文哲案件上，我跟部長說，說實在話，真的是太過份了，看不下去了，偵查不公開被凌辱到這種程度，那是司法之恥，是法務部跟檢調之恥，我當然知道部長跟我講了一百遍，說那不是檢察官放的，沒關係，我後面再跟你慢慢講。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:49:30.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:49:54.540000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下，我透過立法院新聞知識庫查了過去3個月有關柯文哲的新聞，找到了4,057則，這個資料庫沒有包括大多數的網媒跟電子媒體，裡面琳瑯滿目都是偵查大公開的新聞，我整理幾個新聞就教部長，好不好？","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:49:55.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:50:26.712000+08:00","text":"我想請教，就是今天的新聞：檢廉偵辦京華城容積率弊案，懷疑前臺北市長、民眾黨主席柯文哲明知違背法律開綠燈，讓京華城取得超高容積率，涉圖利，亦懷疑柯文哲受惠，其中一種可能管道就是包含虛擬貨幣，檢廉日前搜索時扣到柯文哲一個冷錢包，正在破解當中。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:50:27.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:50:34.995000+08:00","text":"想請教部長，我幫你回答了，你一定說這不是檢察官放的，對不對？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:50:34.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:50:36.536000+08:00","text":"這是不是檢察官放的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:50:36.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:50:38.376000+08:00","text":"我相信不是檢察官，而且……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:50:38.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:50:39.177000+08:00","text":"你相信啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:50:39.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:50:39.797000+08:00","text":"我相信。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:50:39.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:50:53.442000+08:00","text":"你上次也相信說，今天大法官實質廢死之後，然後法官會同意你的聲請羈押，不把那37個死刑犯放出來，但你的相信有用嗎？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:50:56.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:01.092000+08:00","text":"部長，你的相信能夠去左右法院的判決嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:01.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:03.976000+08:00","text":"你的相信真的能夠代表檢察官沒有洩密嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:07.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:14.615000+08:00","text":"你就是一句相信檢察官，我告訴你，北檢最聰明，它說：無法證實，北檢跟我講無法證實。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:15.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:17.457000+08:00","text":"因為我沒辦法去干涉指導介入個案，所以……","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:18.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:19.878000+08:00","text":"那你要相信什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:19.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:26.280000+08:00","text":"你一不干涉，二不指導，三不了解，四不查察，你現在跟我講相信，相信有意義嗎？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:26.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:32.083000+08:00","text":"沒關係，我跟你講，因為你回答太多遍，我可以幫你倒背如流，不是檢察官放的，結束。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:33.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:44.356000+08:00","text":"我想請問，如果檢廉真的扣了那個冷錢包，先不管冷錢包，反正任何證物將其扣了以後，請問會經手哪些人？","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:45.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:46.619000+08:00","text":"偵查訊息會經手哪些人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:46.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:47.580000+08:00","text":"檢察官一定會有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:48.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:48.401000+08:00","text":"包括承辦檢察官。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:49.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:51.485000+08:00","text":"這個我不清楚，凡是會接觸到……拜託！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:53.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:56.565000+08:00","text":"部長，你是幹過檢察官的，你要不要請主席來開示一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:56.565000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:57.565000+08:00","text":"因為對個案會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:56.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:51:59.067000+08:00","text":"請主席來開示一下，主席，我會議詢問，時間暫停，我中止，我會議詢問，因為這個問題要問專業嘛！","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:51:59.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:52:01.489000+08:00","text":"主席，我會議詢問一下，法務部不肯回答，請問你身為檢察官，你當過檢察官……","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:52:01.489000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:52:02.489000+08:00","text":"因為我不是承辦檢察官，我沒有辦法回答這個問題。","quality":0.048},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:52:01.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:52:04.070000+08:00","text":"沒關係，部長，你先休息一下，我問專業的，你當過檢察官但你不懂，我就問專業的，讓專業的來呀！","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:52:23.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:52:36.339000+08:00","text":"主席，會議詢問，我想請教主席，今天如果真的收到柯文哲冷錢包，請問除了檢察官會經手這個訊息之外，還有誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-23T10:52:36.339000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:52:37.339000+08:00","text":"目前是這樣，可能會知道的是檢察官，或者是承辦的廉政署，聲請羈押的時候司法院的法官也有可能會拿到，接下來就是律師了，律師他可以閱卷，在聲請羈押的時候，律師是可以閱卷的，所以律師可能可以看到。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:52:37.339000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:52:38.339000+08:00","text":"非常謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:52:38.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:07.951000+08:00","text":"部長，專業檢察官示範什麼叫做回答問題，他講的錯了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:07.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:10.192000+08:00","text":"我們主席說的有沒有錯？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:10.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:13.653000+08:00","text":"我準備要跟委員報告，反正第五條……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:13.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:18.594000+08:00","text":"你剛才一開始跟我講你不知道，現在你說你要準備說，謝謝主席幫你示範，你就開始準備？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:18.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:20.435000+08:00","text":"我不談那個個案……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:20.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:21.375000+08:00","text":"沒有關係，來！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:21.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:23.596000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，我要到答案了啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:23.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:24.276000+08:00","text":"你會後再補充，沒關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:24.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:24.816000+08:00","text":"廉政署，是你放的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮署長成","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:24.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:24.956000+08:00","text":"我們嚴守偵查不公開。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:25.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:26.096000+08:00","text":"非常好，你也不知道，因為你不是承辦人。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮署長成","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:26.096000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:27.096000+08:00","text":"我們沒有做這個事。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:26.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:39.033000+08:00","text":"警政署，是警察放的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副署長永利","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:39.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:40.353000+08:00","text":"這個案警察應該沒有接觸。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:40.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:41.374000+08:00","text":"非常好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:42.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:47.236000+08:00","text":"我們請司法院，司法院副秘書長可不可以請上來一下？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:48.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:50.857000+08:00","text":"法官會放嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃副秘書長麟倫","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:50.857000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:51.857000+08:00","text":"不可能。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:50.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:51.237000+08:00","text":"不會嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:52.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:53:57.599000+08:00","text":"太完美了，通通都不放，鐵定是柯文哲律師放出去整柯文哲啦！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:53:58.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:07.909000+08:00","text":"柯文哲太英明了，搞一個律師去整他，一天到晚放消息整死柯文哲，原來那隻貓不是司法檢調，是柯文哲律師！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:07.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:09.131000+08:00","text":"部長，你相信嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:09.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:09.471000+08:00","text":"柯文哲那麼蠢啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:09.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:10.012000+08:00","text":"搞一個律師一天到晚洩他的消息、弄他嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:20.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:34.533000+08:00","text":"所以我要跟你講，沒關係，我拿你沒辦法啦，你一直跟我講不是檢察官，警政署也否認，廉政署也否認，然後司法院也否認，大家都否認，否認得非常開心，對不對？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:34.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:41.157000+08:00","text":"我也沒辦法，因為我不是檢察官，我不是偵查主體，我也沒有偵查工具，犯罪偵查主體是誰？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:41.157000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:42.395143+08:00","text":"這個訴訟法有規定……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:42.395143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:43.633286+08:00","text":"回答我嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:43.633286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:44.871429+08:00","text":"檢察官……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:44.871429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:46.109571+08:00","text":"不然我用會議詢問，不要逼我會議詢問，主席，會議詢問，時間暫停，請問主席，犯罪偵查主體是誰？","quality":0.053},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:46.109571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:47.347714+08:00","text":"他不告訴我，我不知道耶！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:47.347714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:48.585857+08:00","text":"目前我國是單一偵查主體，所以是由檢察官。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:48.585857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:49.824000+08:00","text":"非常謝謝，「檢察官」這三個字，你耗了我10秒鐘，再問你，偵查主體是誰？","quality":0.231},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:49.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:54:49.844000+08:00","text":"檢察官。對啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:54:51.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:55:17.749000+08:00","text":"就檢察官啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:55:18.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:55:25.231000+08:00","text":"我來問你下一個問題，請問洩漏偵查中的秘密是犯哪一條罪？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:55:26.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:55:30.033000+08:00","text":"刑法第一百三十二條第一項或第二項。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:55:31.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:55:37.675000+08:00","text":"第一項，公務員洩漏或交付關於中華民國國防以外應秘密之文書、圖畫、消息或物品者，處三年以下有期徒刑。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:55:39.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:55:47.175000+08:00","text":"偵查不公開被打破不是行政範疇的問題，偵查不公開被打破是犯罪問題，沒錯吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:55:48.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:55:49.976000+08:00","text":"如果有人洩密是犯罪問題吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:55:51.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:55:54.117000+08:00","text":"如果有具體事證，我們就會嚴加辦理。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-23T10:55:56.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:04.860000+08:00","text":"部長，經過我們會議主席再三的回答問題之後，現在部長回答問題稍微比較順暢一點點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:04.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:13.417000+08:00","text":"我上次問了你一個案子，你說你不認同，竊盜案的犯罪偵查主體是誰？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:15.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:18.341000+08:00","text":"任何犯罪的偵查主體都是檢察官。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:18.341000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:19.341000+08:00","text":"答對了嘛！對啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:18.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:26.726000+08:00","text":"當然都是檢察官，如果發生了2,000件竊盜案，今天我就問部長說，奇怪了，一件都沒抓到耶！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:27.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:28.568000+08:00","text":"一件都沒起訴耶！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:28.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:30.409000+08:00","text":"一件都沒判刑耶！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:31.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:36.093000+08:00","text":"然後部長跟我講，這不是檢察官偷的，你能夠用這句話交代我嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:39.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:40.190000+08:00","text":"當然不能啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:40.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:48.862000+08:00","text":"那我同樣問你，你們法務部這部分都列了幾千件了，我只是用大概的數字跟你講，然後到現在為止，請問起訴幾件？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:50.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:51.045000+08:00","text":"又處分了45件。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:51.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:52.146000+08:00","text":"起訴啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:52.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:53.228000+08:00","text":"犯罪耶！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:53.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:55.170000+08:00","text":"我不講行政處分，我講的是起訴幾件？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:56:57.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:56:59.645000+08:00","text":"它是犯罪事實，如果有洩密就是犯罪事實啊！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:00.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:03.066000+08:00","text":"我想偵查不公開，並不是第一百三十二條就一定會成立。","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:03.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:05.287000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，當然你不抓就不成立嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:06.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:07.027000+08:00","text":"這還不簡單！沒有！沒有！","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:07.027000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:08.027000+08:00","text":"那不一樣！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:07.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:14.470000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，如果我們法務部說竊盜案，我只要證明不是檢察官弄的，我不抓，竊盜案也不成立啊！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:16.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:18.388000+08:00","text":"你現在脫離人民感情多遠啦！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:18.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:25.410000+08:00","text":"我今天講的還不只是柯文哲，我講的是犯罪的偵查不公開，已經琳瑯滿目到可以在百貨公司陳列商品了！","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:25.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:27.050000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員講的說七千多件，那個是媒體有報導的新聞。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:27.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:28.891000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，你們自己都知道，媒體報導的新聞是這樣，都還搞了七千多件，而且不只七千多件，今年上半年加2,000件是九千多件……","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:28.891000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:29.891000+08:00","text":"媒體報導……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:28.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:29.551000+08:00","text":"你們成長的速度非常快……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:29.551000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:30.551000+08:00","text":"媒體報導的是查獲的績效……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:29.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:57:59.184000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，我剛剛講的冷錢包，週刊報導：柯文哲隨身碟內的金主名單，黃崇仁董事長名列其中，請問是不是檢察官放的？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:57:59.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:58:01.145000+08:00","text":"我幫你回答，不是檢察官，不用查了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:58:02.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:58:18.869000+08:00","text":"週刊報導：民眾黨主席涉及京華城弊案，檢廉發動搜索前，要貼身帳房橘子許芷瑜出國避風頭，如今更掌握柯下達重要指示給橘子，要他保護好手上400萬，還要到民眾黨部拿錢。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:58:18.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:58:19.370000+08:00","text":"請問有沒有洩密？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:58:19.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:58:22.770000+08:00","text":"我幫你回答，沒有，因為不是檢察官放的，所以沒有洩密罪。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:58:23.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:58:26.971000+08:00","text":"柯文哲被找到鹹濕簡訊、柯文哲USB記了沈慶京1500、柯文哲圈圈叉叉點點點。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:58:31.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:58:42.407000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，過去這3個月，你們現在司法檢調掌握的偵查訊息一天到晚在公開，然後你跟我講不是檢察官放的，不是廉政署放的，結束了！","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:58:44.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:58:46.643000+08:00","text":"所以我才跟你講為什麼把偵查不公開廢掉。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T10:58:48.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:58:49.805000+08:00","text":"那個作業辦法第五條裡面……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:58:51.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:59:10.800000+08:00","text":"我們就來問下一個問題，關於程序的部分，我想問問部長，看你有沒有好好的去查案，你跟我講查不到，我跟你講，偵查不公開，但事實放在眼前，你不去查，查到是犯罪，查不到就無能，就這麼簡單。","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:59:10.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:59:17.805000+08:00","text":"我馬上再來跟你提供一個訊息，當然你們也不是沒去查，你有去查三立記者，對不對？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:59:18.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:59:36.677000+08:00","text":"如果今天你們已經發現，有人公開指稱調查官跟特定媒體合作洩漏偵查資訊；有人公開表示就是特定檢察官跟特定媒體合作洩漏偵查資訊。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:59:36.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:59:39.638000+08:00","text":"請問我們局長、我們部長會不會去查？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:59:40.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:59:45.321000+08:00","text":"我們請局長回答好了，調查局副局長，會不會去查？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:59:45.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:59:46.641000+08:00","text":"因為有人公開直接講了。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"吳副局長以公","start":"2024-10-23T10:59:51.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:59:55.372000+08:00","text":"如果有公開，有這樣的訊息，我們一定會去了解。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:59:55.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:59:56.153000+08:00","text":"一定會去查！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳副局長以公","start":"2024-10-23T10:59:57.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:59:58.335000+08:00","text":"一定會去了解。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:59:58.335000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T10:59:59.335000+08:00","text":"一定會？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:59:58.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T10:59:59.556000+08:00","text":"保證喔！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T10:59:59.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:01.297000+08:00","text":"感謝你，馬上提供你約談一個人。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:02.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:12.166000+08:00","text":"之前我問鄭部長，三立記者事件如果有人公開聲稱知道是哪間媒體跟哪個檢察官合作，法務部要不要去確認一下，約談一下？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:15.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:17.315000+08:00","text":"剛剛副局長說要，你不要跟我講又不要了。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:19.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:22.276000+08:00","text":"刑訴法第二百二十八條，如果真的有違反偵查不公開，有涉及到第一百三十二條……","quality":0.485},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:22.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:30.378000+08:00","text":"好了好了，副局長你上來，因為我真的對部長已經尊敬到無以復加了，每個問題都要給我繞一大圈。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:31.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:34.519000+08:00","text":"請問副局長，你剛剛答應說要查嘛，對不對？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:34.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:34.799000+08:00","text":"沒錯吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳副局長以公","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:34.799000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:36.300000+08:00","text":"羅委員剛剛提到說，如果新聞……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:36.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:41.301000+08:00","text":"對啊，如果有人說他知道哪間媒體跟哪個檢察官合作啊！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:41.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:41.841000+08:00","text":"洩密啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:42.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:42.461000+08:00","text":"要不要查？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳副局長以公","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:43.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:46.427000+08:00","text":"報告委員，你剛剛講是調查官，如果是調查官的話，我們一定會去了解。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:47.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:48.509000+08:00","text":"又要推給法務部啦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:49.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:50.431000+08:00","text":"來，沒關係，我放影片。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:50.431000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T11:00:55.775000+08:00","text":"（播放影片）","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:00:55.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:01:02.340000+08:00","text":"「哪個檢察官」，他知道哪個檢察官；會跟「哪個媒體」，他知道哪個媒體，這超級具體！","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:01:02.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:01:03.261000+08:00","text":"查不查？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:01:13.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:01:14.776000+08:00","text":"先約談一下柯建銘吧！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:01:15.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:01:19.079000+08:00","text":"他都公開講他知道啊，你們要不要查一下？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:01:20.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:01:22.522000+08:00","text":"你查了以後，他說「練肖話」，我也可以接受。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:01:24.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:01:25.263000+08:00","text":"你已經講過，那你要不要查？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:01:25.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:01:28.546000+08:00","text":"不要講個案，今天所有的案件都類似這個狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-10-23T11:01:28.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-23T11:01:28.666000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-23T11:01:29.166000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-23T11:01:32.880286+08:00","text":"謝謝，下一位請賴士葆委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":733,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（10時47分）主席，有請部長、廉政署、調查局、警政署。"],["主席：麻煩部長，還有廉政署、調查局、警政署。"],["羅委員智強：部長，請問您有看過貓玩老鼠嗎？你有在滑短影片嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有。"],["羅委員智強：不管是YouTube還是說Reels、還是說Threads、還是說TikTok，你有在滑短影片嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有，我因為太忙了，我沒有時間去看。"],["羅委員智強：如果你有滑短影片，你一定看過貓玩老鼠的短影片，因為這在短影片上面是非常紅的，你知道貓是怎麼樣玩老鼠的嗎？部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不清楚。"],["羅委員智強：貓抓到老鼠，不把老鼠直接吃掉，不斷的逗牠，然後一直用牠的手掌拍打牠，牠不動也打，牠動也打，完全就是食物鏈上端者的一個架式，生殺任牠，就是玩牠，慢慢的玩死牠，我再問一次部長，你有沒有看過貓玩老鼠？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有養貓，所以我不清楚。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，部長，你怎麼會沒有看過！現在就是活生生、血淋淋的法務部在玩貓玩老鼠，你知道在玩誰嗎？我們的檢調司法單位在玩誰，你知道嗎？就在玩柯文哲！就在玩柯文哲！我先跟部長說，柯文哲如果貪污受賄，違法犯紀，我贊成我們司法查辦他，把他關起來，可是今天在柯文哲案件上，我跟部長說，說實在話，真的是太過份了，看不下去了，偵查不公開被凌辱到這種程度，那是司法之恥，是法務部跟檢調之恥，我當然知道部長跟我講了一百遍，說那不是檢察官放的，沒關係，我後面再跟你慢慢講。","我想請教一下，我透過立法院新聞知識庫查了過去3個月有關柯文哲的新聞，找到了4,057則，這個資料庫沒有包括大多數的網媒跟電子媒體，裡面琳瑯滿目都是偵查大公開的新聞，我整理幾個新聞就教部長，好不好？我想請教，就是今天的新聞：檢廉偵辦京華城容積率弊案，懷疑前臺北市長、民眾黨主席柯文哲明知違背法律開綠燈，讓京華城取得超高容積率，涉圖利，亦懷疑柯文哲受惠，其中一種可能管道就是包含虛擬貨幣，檢廉日前搜索時扣到柯文哲一個冷錢包，正在破解當中。想請教部長，我幫你回答了，你一定說這不是檢察官放的，對不對？這是不是檢察官放的？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我相信不是檢察官，而且……"],["羅委員智強：你相信啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我相信。"],["羅委員智強：你上次也相信說，今天大法官實質廢死之後，然後法官會同意你的聲請羈押，不把那37個死刑犯放出來，但你的相信有用嗎？部長，你的相信能夠去左右法院的判決嗎？你的相信真的能夠代表檢察官沒有洩密嗎？你就是一句相信檢察官，我告訴你，北檢最聰明，它說：無法證實，北檢跟我講無法證實。"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為我沒辦法去干涉指導介入個案，所以……"],["羅委員智強：那你要相信什麼？你一不干涉，二不指導，三不了解，四不查察，你現在跟我講相信，相信有意義嗎？沒關係，我跟你講，因為你回答太多遍，我可以幫你倒背如流，不是檢察官放的，結束。","我想請問，如果檢廉真的扣了那個冷錢包，先不管冷錢包，反正任何證物將其扣了以後，請問會經手哪些人？偵查訊息會經手哪些人？檢察官一定會有嘛！包括承辦檢察官。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我不清楚，凡是會接觸到……"],["羅委員智強：拜託！部長，你是幹過檢察官的，你要不要請主席來開示一下？"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為對個案會……"],["羅委員智強：請主席來開示一下，主席，我會議詢問，時間暫停，我中止，我會議詢問，因為這個問題要問專業嘛！主席，我會議詢問一下，法務部不肯回答，請問你身為檢察官，你當過檢察官……"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為我不是承辦檢察官，我沒有辦法回答這個問題。"],["羅委員智強：沒關係，部長，你先休息一下，我問專業的，你當過檢察官但你不懂，我就問專業的，讓專業的來呀！主席，會議詢問，我想請教主席，今天如果真的收到柯文哲冷錢包，請問除了檢察官會經手這個訊息之外，還有誰？"],["主席：目前是這樣，可能會知道的是檢察官，或者是承辦的廉政署，聲請羈押的時候司法院的法官也有可能會拿到，接下來就是律師了，律師他可以閱卷，在聲請羈押的時候，律師是可以閱卷的，所以律師可能可以看到。"],["羅委員智強：非常謝謝。部長，專業檢察官示範什麼叫做回答問題，他講的錯了嗎？我們主席說的有沒有錯？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我準備要跟委員報告，反正第五條……"],["羅委員智強：你剛才一開始跟我講你不知道，現在你說你要準備說，謝謝主席幫你示範，你就開始準備？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不談那個個案……"],["羅委員智強：沒有關係，來！我告訴你，我要到答案了啦！你會後再補充，沒關係。","廉政署，是你放的嗎？"],["馮署長成：我們嚴守偵查不公開。"],["羅委員智強：非常好，你也不知道，因為你不是承辦人。"],["馮署長成：我們沒有做這個事。"],["羅委員智強：警政署，是警察放的嗎？"],["陳副署長永利：這個案警察應該沒有接觸。"],["羅委員智強：非常好。我們請司法院，司法院副秘書長可不可以請上來一下？法官會放嗎？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：不可能。"],["羅委員智強：不會嘛！太完美了，通通都不放，鐵定是柯文哲律師放出去整柯文哲啦！柯文哲太英明了，搞一個律師去整他，一天到晚放消息整死柯文哲，原來那隻貓不是司法檢調，是柯文哲律師！部長，你相信嗎？柯文哲那麼蠢啊！搞一個律師一天到晚洩他的消息、弄他嗎？所以我要跟你講，沒關係，我拿你沒辦法啦，你一直跟我講不是檢察官，警政署也否認，廉政署也否認，然後司法院也否認，大家都否認，否認得非常開心，對不對？我也沒辦法，因為我不是檢察官，我不是偵查主體，我也沒有偵查工具，犯罪偵查主體是誰？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個訴訟法有規定……"],["羅委員智強：回答我嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：檢察官……"],["羅委員智強：不然我用會議詢問，不要逼我會議詢問，主席，會議詢問，時間暫停，請問主席，犯罪偵查主體是誰？他不告訴我，我不知道耶！"],["主席：目前我國是單一偵查主體，所以是由檢察官。"],["羅委員智強：非常謝謝，「檢察官」這三個字，你耗了我10秒鐘，再問你，偵查主體是誰？"],["鄭部長銘謙：檢察官。"],["羅委員智強：對啊！就檢察官啊！","我來問你下一個問題，請問洩漏偵查中的秘密是犯哪一條罪？"],["鄭部長銘謙：刑法第一百三十二條第一項或第二項。"],["羅委員智強：第一項，公務員洩漏或交付關於中華民國國防以外應秘密之文書、圖畫、消息或物品者，處三年以下有期徒刑。偵查不公開被打破不是行政範疇的問題，偵查不公開被打破是犯罪問題，沒錯吧？如果有人洩密是犯罪問題吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：如果有具體事證，我們就會嚴加辦理。"],["主席：部長，經過我們會議主席再三的回答問題之後，現在部長回答問題稍微比較順暢一點點。","我上次問了你一個案子，你說你不認同，竊盜案的犯罪偵查主體是誰？"],["鄭部長銘謙：任何犯罪的偵查主體都是檢察官。"],["羅委員智強：答對了嘛！對啊！當然都是檢察官，如果發生了2,000件竊盜案，今天我就問部長說，奇怪了，一件都沒抓到耶！一件都沒起訴耶！一件都沒判刑耶！然後部長跟我講，這不是檢察官偷的，你能夠用這句話交代我嗎？當然不能啊！那我同樣問你，你們法務部這部分都列了幾千件了，我只是用大概的數字跟你講，然後到現在為止，請問起訴幾件？"],["鄭部長銘謙：又處分了45件。"],["羅委員智強：起訴啦！犯罪耶！我不講行政處分，我講的是起訴幾件？它是犯罪事實，如果有洩密就是犯罪事實啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想偵查不公開，並不是第一百三十二條就一定會成立。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，當然你不抓就不成立嘛！這還不簡單！"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有！沒有！那不一樣！"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，如果我們法務部說竊盜案，我只要證明不是檢察官弄的，我不抓，竊盜案也不成立啊！你現在脫離人民感情多遠啦！我今天講的還不只是柯文哲，我講的是犯罪的偵查不公開，已經琳瑯滿目到可以在百貨公司陳列商品了！"],["鄭部長銘謙：剛剛委員講的說七千多件，那個是媒體有報導的新聞。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，你們自己都知道，媒體報導的新聞是這樣，都還搞了七千多件，而且不只七千多件，今年上半年加2,000件是九千多件……"],["鄭部長銘謙：媒體報導……"],["羅委員智強：你們成長的速度非常快……"],["鄭部長銘謙：媒體報導的是查獲的績效……"],["羅委員智強：我跟你講，我剛剛講的冷錢包，週刊報導：柯文哲隨身碟內的金主名單，黃崇仁董事長名列其中，請問是不是檢察官放的？我幫你回答，不是檢察官，不用查了。週刊報導：民眾黨主席涉及京華城弊案，檢廉發動搜索前，要貼身帳房橘子許芷瑜出國避風頭，如今更掌握柯下達重要指示給橘子，要他保護好手上400萬，還要到民眾黨部拿錢。請問有沒有洩密？我幫你回答，沒有，因為不是檢察官放的，所以沒有洩密罪。柯文哲被找到鹹濕簡訊、柯文哲USB記了沈慶京1500、柯文哲圈圈叉叉點點點。我告訴你，過去這3個月，你們現在司法檢調掌握的偵查訊息一天到晚在公開，然後你跟我講不是檢察官放的，不是廉政署放的，結束了！所以我才跟你講為什麼把偵查不公開廢掉。"],["鄭部長銘謙：那個作業辦法第五條裡面……"],["羅委員智強：我們就來問下一個問題，關於程序的部分，我想問問部長，看你有沒有好好的去查案，你跟我講查不到，我跟你講，偵查不公開，但事實放在眼前，你不去查，查到是犯罪，查不到就無能，就這麼簡單。","我馬上再來跟你提供一個訊息，當然你們也不是沒去查，你有去查三立記者，對不對？如果今天你們已經發現，有人公開指稱調查官跟特定媒體合作洩漏偵查資訊；有人公開表示就是特定檢察官跟特定媒體合作洩漏偵查資訊。請問我們局長、我們部長會不會去查？我們請局長回答好了，調查局副局長，會不會去查？因為有人公開直接講了。"],["吳副局長以公：如果有公開，有這樣的訊息，我們一定會去了解。"],["羅委員智強：一定會去查！"],["吳副局長以公：一定會去了解。"],["羅委員智強：一定會？保證喔！感謝你，馬上提供你約談一個人。之前我問鄭部長，三立記者事件如果有人公開聲稱知道是哪間媒體跟哪個檢察官合作，法務部要不要去確認一下，約談一下？剛剛副局長說要，你不要跟我講又不要了。"],["鄭部長銘謙：刑訴法第二百二十八條，如果真的有違反偵查不公開，有涉及到第一百三十二條……"],["羅委員智強：好了好了，副局長你上來，因為我真的對部長已經尊敬到無以復加了，每個問題都要給我繞一大圈。請問副局長，你剛剛答應說要查嘛，對不對？沒錯吧！"],["吳副局長以公：羅委員剛剛提到說，如果新聞……"],["羅委員智強：對啊，如果有人說他知道哪間媒體跟哪個檢察官合作啊！洩密啊！要不要查？"],["吳副局長以公：報告委員，你剛剛講是調查官，如果是調查官的話，我們一定會去了解。"],["羅委員智強：又要推給法務部啦？來，沒關係，我放影片。","（播放影片）"],["羅委員智強：「哪個檢察官」，他知道哪個檢察官；會跟「哪個媒體」，他知道哪個媒體，這超級具體！查不查？先約談一下柯建銘吧！他都公開講他知道啊，你們要不要查一下？你查了以後，他說「練肖話」，我也可以接受。你已經講過，那你要不要查？不要講個案，今天所有的案件都類似這個狀況。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，下一位請賴士葆委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":352,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-7","speakers":["吳宗憲","莊瑞雄","黃國昌","沈發惠","謝龍介","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","羅智強","賴士葆","吳思瑤","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","林國成","林宜瑾","張啓楷","林思銘","陳冠廷"],"page_start":273,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、法務部廉政署署長、法務部調查局局長、內政部警政署署長、\n國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員率所屬相關單位列席就「如何破除偵查大公開，以兼顧犯罪偵\n查及人權保障」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138801_00009"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}