{"error":false,"id":["156001"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":156001,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156001","日期":"2024-10-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-35-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-10-23T12:45:13+08:00","結束時間":"2024-10-23T12:51:41+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:28","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f30dcf391021d6345edcf4f1961edaefbc85fd0f5e73d7766e8eac7fc2cd0ec79e30822738802ac5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"12:45:13 - 12:51:41","會議時間":"2024-10-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長、國家安全局、法務部調查局、海洋委員會海巡署、內政部、經濟部、農業部、國家發展委員會、國家科學及技術委員會、交通部、數位發展部、衛生福利部報告「針對解放軍未來可能透過『灰色地帶戰術』和『蟒蛇戰略』對台灣封鎖之國安危機及如何確保關鍵物資自主、關鍵產業、基礎設施、能源自主、民生物資、糧食安全及醫療物資供應無虞之應處作為」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.22909375,"end":1.7353437500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.56221875,"end":3.3890937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.122218750000002,"end":11.117843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.847843750000003,"end":18.188468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.42471875,"end":20.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.58471875,"end":20.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.192218750000002,"end":22.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.67721875,"end":25.242218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.136593750000003,"end":28.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.37659375,"end":31.097843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.38471875,"end":36.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.290968750000005,"end":38.252843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.24846875,"end":42.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.65284375,"end":46.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.955968750000004,"end":48.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.031593750000006,"end":51.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.579718750000005,"end":56.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.98409375000001,"end":58.064093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.494093750000005,"end":61.455968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.244718750000004,"end":63.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.98721875000001,"end":64.84784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.05034375000001,"end":65.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.38346875,"end":67.36221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.43784375,"end":71.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.96909375,"end":73.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.28471875000001,"end":78.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.03971875,"end":83.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.44846875,"end":84.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.95034375,"end":89.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.47284375000001,"end":89.55284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.05909375,"end":96.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.08846875,"end":92.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.79221875,"end":123.92721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.92721875000001,"end":124.31534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.70346875000001,"end":127.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.30221875000001,"end":128.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.66909375,"end":130.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.40284375000002,"end":136.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.39346875,"end":138.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.06409375,"end":143.14784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.21534375000002,"end":144.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.25721875000002,"end":148.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.88534375,"end":152.51346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.07034375,"end":153.77909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.38659375,"end":157.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.11596875,"end":160.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.91284375,"end":164.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.74784375000002,"end":166.72221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.34659375,"end":209.71971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.01096875000002,"end":217.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.46534375000002,"end":220.70534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.24534375000002,"end":224.04659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.45159375,"end":226.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.99971875000003,"end":229.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.02034375000002,"end":231.64034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.29846875,"end":235.09971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.67346875,"end":238.40721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.38596875000002,"end":240.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.94659375,"end":243.62159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.77346875,"end":245.32596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.84909375,"end":246.47346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.19909375,"end":248.53221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.05534375000002,"end":249.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.11846875,"end":251.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.24471875,"end":253.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.06721875000002,"end":255.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.36659375000002,"end":258.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.77534375,"end":262.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.43721875,"end":263.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.82096875,"end":265.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.09471875,"end":267.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.10721875,"end":278.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.63721875000005,"end":281.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.46784375000004,"end":285.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.97784375000003,"end":286.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.34909375,"end":288.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.04909375,"end":290.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.61846875000003,"end":295.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.76971875000004,"end":304.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.12659375000004,"end":317.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.83784375000005,"end":329.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.52784375000005,"end":332.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.77221875000004,"end":333.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.90284375000005,"end":339.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.15534375000004,"end":345.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.87659375000004,"end":340.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.71534375000005,"end":347.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.85409375,"end":354.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.91659375,"end":358.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.84846875,"end":359.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.78909375,"end":360.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.05909375000005,"end":363.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.87721875,"end":372.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.19221875000005,"end":375.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.57159375000003,"end":378.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.87909375000004,"end":387.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.43159375000005,"end":379.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.44409375000004,"end":380.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.33784375000005,"end":386.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.45159375000003,"end":386.46846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":28.308,"text":"有請顧部長不管是灰色地帶戰術或者是蟒蛇戰略基本上它是在執行一個戰略清晰中的戰術模糊蟒蛇什麼時候動 不知道還有怎麼動 不知道那灰色當然就是一個模糊"},{"start":29.491,"end":57.822,"text":"所以我是覺得這個不管是蟒蛇戰略或者是灰色地帶戰術它執行都是一個長期的過程長期每天都會然後逐步升高壓力然後用多種不同的這個戰術去執行那我要先請教這是一個長期的心理戰也是一個長期的戰備這個準備的一個過程那變成一個常態化"},{"start":60.984,"end":73.198,"text":"蟒蛇最怕什麼?部長蟒蛇最怕最怕什麼?蟒蛇最怕什麼?你要思考他出了一個蟒蛇戰略你要知道蟒蛇不怕什麼?"},{"start":79.36,"end":90.669,"text":"你這個時候必須要讓我思考一下蟒蛇最怕什麼因為我對可能對國防的議題可以回答那你突然問我蟒蛇對於蟒蛇的這個戰略我們的應處當然就是說因為它"},{"start":97.434,"end":123.446,"text":"我認為不管國外或唐士林所發表的蟒蛇戰略就是說它藉由各種複合式的手段不斷地來進行這種軍事的動作或灰色地帶的洗澡然後呢這個針對性的這些軍演也好或者是這種常態性的戰備警訊或聯合戰備警訊也好規模也越來越大然後呢頻率越來越高這樣子"},{"start":124.838,"end":138.172,"text":"所以對我們日常的戰備這個部分高強度而且是長期性的對於前線或者是每天都要這個幾乎都要備戰的狀況之下我們的這些"},{"start":139.11,"end":166.552,"text":"海空兵力相關的狀況要能夠掌握這是一個高強度而且是長期性的一個戰略對我們前線的海空軍是一個非常大的壓力這部分它最主要達到的目的就是讓我軍讓國軍打到一個精疲力竭消耗你的日常準備戰力這個我們有沒有相關因應的方式"},{"start":168.066,"end":196.117,"text":"我之前好像應該也回答過了就是說我們對於這種消耗戰當然是一個他很明顯是他的策略之一那我們針對這種消耗戰的這個作為當然還是非常具有挑戰性但我們會多利用這個在空我們本來就每天都有在空機的訓練然後也有預定的這些戰鬥這個空中的巡邏然後任務艦也會出動所以我們那如果說"},{"start":197.137,"end":220.227,"text":"是威脅的狀況的話我們利用地面的這些防空的系統來進行追瞄這樣子盡量的來不要過度的消耗我們的這些除了作戰部隊的高強度壓力之外也要培養全民國防的戰鬥力讓全民防衛能夠深入每一個國民"},{"start":221.314,"end":245.93,"text":"瞭解說我們面臨到中國武力的所謂蟒蛇策略影響到我們國家安全我們必須要團結所以全面防衛這部分也要多一點相關的作為另外就是說講到我選區的部分這個空軍"},{"start":247.893,"end":264.826,"text":"這個工訓官校、鋼杉機場這個高頻率的這個所謂演練當然會對周遭的這些市民朋友、鄰近區域會造成這個噪音的這些影響對生活造成影響所以我也曾經"},{"start":268.248,"end":287.815,"text":"我已經去思考是怎麼樣去把這些對這些機場周遭的這些這個回饋金或者補償金能夠把這餅做大全國有那麼多機場那麼多的這個里每天的生活都受到這個飛機訓練起降的影響這部分是國防部哪一個單位來處理的"},{"start":291.206,"end":304.295,"text":"我們對於這個部分當然都有一些木鱗的一些經費啦對啦 我就說餅要做大 然後這個機制能夠更公平有一些禮啊 還要等20年才輪一次"},{"start":306.215,"end":331.981,"text":"所以我想部長你要去了解一下這個整個對空軍機長周遭的木鱗的這些我覺得好像沒記錯一年編六億這部分不夠啦我希望能夠對這些生活受到空軍訓練的這些市民朋友能夠有更多的木鱗經費的補助這部長你去了解一下好不好"},{"start":334.235,"end":344.987,"text":"吳牧林的軍配,詳細的數字我不清楚沒有這樣我知道6億多啦,但是我覺得這換寡也換不軍啦這邊我是提出這個議題,讓這個部長去了解一下"},{"start":348.928,"end":376.861,"text":"是,我們對於這些相關的應該要來跟地方政府來做跟地方政府無關啦,這個全部都是國防部編列預算對,預算是我們編列,但是要做怎麼樣的一個機制也是你們設定的,相關的牧林經費的發放也是你們制定我覺得這個換寡也換不均,這個請部長再去了解他有一些防治區的劃定,可能還是要協調一下這個制度還是出現問題的"},{"start":378.282,"end":385.491,"text":"那會後是不是再跟委員我請夜館的單位來跟委員多多請教好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1109,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（12時45分）謝謝主席，有請顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：邱委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：部長好。不管灰色地帶戰術或是蟒蛇戰略，基本上是在執行一個戰略清晰中的戰術模糊，蟒蛇什麼時候動不知道，牠要怎麼動也不知道。灰色當然就是一種模糊，所以我覺得不管是蟒蛇戰略或灰色地帶戰術，它的執行都是一個長期的過程，每天都會，逐步升高壓力，用多種不同的戰術去執行。先請教，這是一個長期的心理戰，也是一個長期的戰備準備的過程，變成常態化。部長，蟒蛇最怕什麼？你要思考，他出了一個蟒蛇戰略，你要知道蟒蛇怕什麼。"],["顧部長立雄：這個時候必須讓我思考一下蟒蛇最怕什麼。"],["邱委員志偉：你就用常識來判斷蟒蛇。"],["顧部長立雄：可能我對國防的議題可以回答，突然問我蟒蛇……"],["邱委員志偉：說的是戰略。"],["顧部長立雄：對於蟒蛇戰略，我認為不管國外或唐司令所發表的蟒蛇戰略就是說，它藉由各種複合式的手段，不斷的來進行軍事的恫嚇或灰色地帶的襲擾，針對性的軍演也好，或者常態性的戰備警巡或聯合戰備警巡也好，規模也越來越大，頻次越來越高。"],["邱委員志偉：對我們日常戰備是高強度而且是長期性的，對前線或每天幾乎都要備戰的狀態之下，我們的海空兵力的相關狀況要能夠掌握，這是一個高強度而且長期性的戰略，對我們前線的海空軍是一個非常大的壓力，這個部分最主要的目的就是讓國軍達到精疲力竭，消耗你日常準備戰力，我們有沒有相關的因應方式？"],["顧部長立雄：我之前應該也回答過了，我們對於這種消耗戰當然清楚這很明顯是它的策略之一，我們針對這種消耗戰的作為當然還是非常具有挑戰性，但我們會多利用載空，我們本來就每天都有載空機的訓練，也有律定的空中巡邏，任務艦也會出動，如果是威脅的狀況的話，我們利用地面的這些防空系統來進行追瞄，儘量的不要過度消耗我們的這些資源。"],["邱委員志偉：除了作戰部隊的高強度壓力之下，也要培養全民國防的戰鬥力，讓全民防衛能夠深入每一個國民，了解到我們面臨中國武力的蟒蛇策略，影響到我們國家安全，我們必須要團結，全民防衛這部分也要多一點相關的作為。另外，講到我選區的部分，空軍官校岡山機場高頻率的演練，會對周遭的市民朋友、鄰近區域造成噪音的影響，對生活造成影響，所以我也曾經思考要怎樣把機場周遭的這些回饋金或補償金的餅做大，全國有那麼多機場、那麼多的里，每天生活都受到飛機訓練起降的影響，這個部分是國防部哪個單位處理的？"],["顧部長立雄：我們對於這個部分當然都有一些睦鄰的經費。"],["邱委員志偉：我是說餅要做大，讓機制能夠更公平，有一些里要等20年才輪一次，部長要去了解一下整個對空軍機場周遭的睦鄰措施，我沒記錯的話，一年編6億元，這部分不夠，我希望能夠對這些生活受到空軍訓練影響的市民朋友有更多睦鄰經費的補助，請部長去了解一下。"],["顧部長立雄：睦鄰的經費、詳細的數字我不清楚。"],["邱委員志偉：六億多元，但我覺得這患寡也患不均，我提出這個議題讓部長去了解一下。"],["顧部長立雄：是，我們對於這些相關的應該要跟地方政府……"],["邱委員志偉：這跟地方政府無關啦！這個全部都是國防部編列預算。"],["顧部長立雄：對，預算是我們編列，但是要做怎樣的……"],["邱委員志偉：機制也是你們設定的，相關的睦鄰經費發放也是你們制訂，我覺得患寡也患不均，請部長再去了解一下。"],["顧部長立雄：它有一些防制區的劃定可能還是要協調一下。"],["邱委員志偉：這個制度還是出現問題。"],["顧部長立雄：會後我請業管的單位跟委員多多請教。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱志偉委員，部長請回。","接下來請洪孟楷委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":352,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-7","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","馬文君","黃仁","陳冠廷","林楚茵","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","黃國昌","張啓楷","王鴻薇","洪申翰","羅智強","邱志偉","洪孟楷","賴士葆","張嘉郡"],"page_start":271,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長、國家安全局、法務部調查局、海洋委員會海巡署、內政部、經濟部、農業部、\n國家發展委員會、國家科學及技術委員會、交通部、數位發展部、衛生福利部報告「針對解放軍\n未來可能透過『灰色地帶戰術』和『蟒蛇戰略』對台灣封鎖之國安危機及如何確保關鍵物資自\n主、關鍵產業、基礎設施、能源自主、民生物資、糧食安全及醫療物資供應無虞之應處作為」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138701_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}