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品來管制。"],["楊委員曜：當然必須經過審查委員會審查，不過開會時間是你們可以決定的？"],["郭司長永發：是。"],["楊委員曜：所以必須儘速因應社會現象的產生，提出解決方案，好不好？"],["郭司長永發：是，謝謝委員。"],["楊委員曜：謝謝司長，司長請回。"],["郭司長永發：謝謝委員。"],["楊委員曜：請國健署副署長。署長怎麼沒來？"],["邱部長泰源：跟委員報告一下，吳署長去韓國參與亞太公共衛生會議，並發表與臺灣有關的成果論文發表。"],["楊委員曜：部長請坐，我問副署長就好了，捨不得讓你站太久。"],["賈副署長淑麗：委員好。"],["楊委員曜：副署長，根據國健署在110年就青少年吸菸行為的調查發現，國高中生吸食紙菸的比例已經獲得控制？"],["賈副署長淑麗：是，沒錯。"],["楊委員曜：可是電子煙的使用率是在增加的，為什麼？"],["賈副署長淑麗：跟委員報告，確實有這樣的趨勢，國中生使用電子煙的比率目前最新資料是到3.9%。"],["楊委員曜：對。"],["賈副署長淑麗：高中職使用電子煙的比率相較108年也上升，現在已經到了8.8%，這已經是事實了。"],["楊委員曜：所以大概已經到八萬了？"],["賈副署長淑麗：七點九萬人。"],["楊委員曜：對，但我是問原因。"],["賈副署長淑麗：原因是紙菸的吸食率降低，又因為電子煙比較酷炫，對於年輕人來說具有一定的吸引力。"],["楊委員曜：用這點來推論的話就表示，當加熱式菸品出來以後，你們在防制面上必須要先有對策。"],["賈副署長淑麗：是的，謝謝委員。"],["楊委員曜：因為它是酷炫的，對不對？"],["賈副署長淑麗：對。目前我們在審查加熱菸的過程中，也對後市場管理有非常大的要求。"],["楊委員曜：沒錯嘛？"],["賈副署長淑麗：對。"],["楊委員曜：因為從現在的數據就可以看出以後會發生什麼事，所以現在就必須先做好準備。"],["賈副署長淑麗：是，防患於未然，謝謝委員提醒。"],["楊委員曜：還有，在查獲的件數上，就我這邊的資料來看，吸食電子煙查獲的案件數也太少了。"],["賈副署長淑麗：對，兩年累計下來，到目前為止，真正使用者被我們查獲且開罰的為404次。"],["楊委員曜：404？可能有一些雖查獲但沒有開罰？"],["賈副署長淑麗：正在行政程序中。"],["楊委員曜：查獲一定開罰，還是不一定？"],["賈副署長淑麗：查獲要約詢。"],["楊委員曜：要約詢？"],["賈副署長淑麗：然後會有一些行政程序，剛才部長也有特別指示要加速、加強相關的……"],["楊委員曜：因為真的太少了，對不對？"],["賈副署長淑麗：了解，謝謝委員。"],["楊委員曜：副署長請回，我臨時想到一個問題要請教部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["楊委員曜：部長好。剛剛徐富癸委員說到恆春醫院的醫師人力問題，就我的觀察，醫中支援計畫實施這麼久，但我一直搞不清楚：為什麼醫學中心無限量增加，而在醫中支援離島偏鄉計畫下，要一個醫生卻這麼困難？部長懂我的意思嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：了解。"],["楊委員曜：我不知道為什麼他們要升格那麼容易，僅今年一年就升格了三家，健保給付增加了，各項優渥條件也拿走了，但應該要負擔的責任為什麼部裡面在處理時會這麼困難？我不知道到底問題在哪裡！"],["邱部長泰源：這應該是醫事人員本身的選擇……"],["楊委員曜：不是，這是醫學中心必須要去解決的事！假如我沒有記錯，醫中支援離島偏鄉是評鑑項目之一，結果現在原本是醫學中心的沒有降級，不是醫學中心的也升級了，就表示你們在評鑑時，醫學中心在這個項目上並沒有遇到你們的挑戰！你們不挑戰它，到底是包庇它，還是它真的做得很好？如果它做得很好，徐富癸委員也不用為了要一個醫生……其實不只恆春，澎湖、金門、馬祖、離島偏鄉要一個醫學中心的人力支援都很困難，部長有沒有聽懂我的意思？"],["邱部長泰源：我想所有的醫學中心其實都有派員到偏鄉……"],["楊委員曜：不是，20家醫學中心的時候也遇到支援人力短缺的問題；23家也遇到，以你們目前增加的數量來看，搞不好明年30家了，也還是會遇到！"],["邱部長泰源：對，所以不管醫學中心有幾家，我們也給它任務，可是如果醫師很難派的話，的確……"],["楊委員曜：那麼評鑑時就不應該過啊！"],["邱部長泰源：不是不應該過，而是可能會失分。醫院評鑑時除非是必要條件一定要做到……"],["楊委員曜：部長，現在我當壞人給你壓力，讓你加一點壓力給醫學中心，不能拿走那麼多健保資源，卻不負擔應該要負起的責任！"],["邱部長泰源：是，這是一個方式。至於偏鄉加強，其實政府也有偏鄉加強計畫，兩方面來同時進行……"],["楊委員曜：不是！我現在不討論其他計畫，因為就算是兩個計畫也沒有辦法填補！我們現在就單從為什麼臺灣的醫療機關評鑑會造成一直有醫院升級，而應該要處理的問題一直沒有辦法處理？部長，你聽懂我的意思嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：有，這個我們有在檢討。"],["楊委員曜：其實醫學中心支援不甘不願，然後成效不好，這個也是本席一直反對醫學中心無限量增加的一個原因……"],["邱部長泰源：瞭解、瞭解。"],["楊委員曜：我再講一次，在這一些問題還沒有解決之前，你們不要再有醫學中心升級了。"],["邱部長泰源：是，瞭解。"],["楊委員曜：讓他們這樣升級，升級了這麼多間醫院，但升到澎湖也欠缺、金門也欠缺、屏東也欠缺……"],["邱部長泰源：如果增加醫學中心，結果對偏鄉的幫助並沒有增加，這個可能……"],["楊委員曜：不是，這個本來就規定了嘛，醫中支援人力的計畫實施大概10年了，納入評鑑也10年了嘛，一直沒有辦法解決，派不出來就降級啊，對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們來督促。"],["楊委員曜：好啦，謝謝部長。"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊委員，謝謝部長。","接續請葉元之委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-5","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","王育敏","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王正旭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","林淑芬","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","涂權吉","李坤城","洪孟楷","林國成","張雅琳","陳培瑜","郭昱晴","徐富癸","楊曜","葉元之","黃秀芳","陳瑩","盧縣一"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、法務部、內政部、財政部、教育部列席就「有關新興煙毒品防制及強化虐\n童防治作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}