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羈押多久沒關係啊你剛剛都混時間我倒是問主席快一點如果是10年以下的罪的話是依照刑事訴訟法108條是"},{"start":500.14,"end":501.341,"text":"所以壓了15個月壓到極限以後就得放人嘛是不是請問主席"},{"start":524.612,"end":553.311,"text":"當然啦因為在審理中你只能你是在問我嗎審理中是只有羈押我問他我剩一分鐘他問他都不回答啊我只好問會議主席啦因為審理中是只有羈押才能限制被告人身自由我還沒要註明法官會在一個羈押的時間裡面把他審判完畢的我先請會議詢問請主席開始一下就是審理中的話是只有羈押才能限制被告人身自由只有這個方式而已好那我現在請教"},{"start":555.153,"end":560.637,"text":"我們按照妥數審判法第五條請問在什麼情況之下人就得放出來部長"},{"start":561.926,"end":590.594,"text":"就是第五條的規定啊我講的妥數阿他寫的第五條規定阿我不懂問你嘛來你沒關係你答不出來來會議詢問第三次請主席回答主席妥數存在嗎在什麼情況之下人又會被放出來因為依照妥數審判法只要是十年以上的重罪他是可以延壓六次所以再加積壓三個月所以總共是十五個月他是他的最高的極限那裡面有規定嘛審判中積壓期限累計不得逾五年嘛對不對"},{"start":592.279,"end":618.861,"text":"裡面也有規定說今天審判中延期羈押最重是死刑無期徒刑有期徒刑十年以上一審二審六次違憲第三審一次違憲所以很簡單我要做個結論來聽聽我們的部長第一個你的保證申請羈押不等於法院會採納因為他不認為說你按照刑事訴訟法101條認為是符合要件第二個就算今天關了押了"},{"start":619.702,"end":643.726,"text":"他也有15個月的期限第三個又按照妥數審判法的一個規定最後一個更重要的事情等到法院今天我們總長非常上訴之後我跟你講發回從審開始所謂的撤銷死刑判決之後人就是很可能放出來啊不是嗎有沒有可能你要推給司法院來秘書長請副秘書長請委員好"},{"start":649.286,"end":656.474,"text":"是不是啊?申請羈押法院一定會准嗎?對啊所以你還是同樣的問題部長能夠保證他申請羈押法院法官就會准嗎?不能嘛當然啦阿如果法官沒准人就怎麼樣?"},{"start":670.747,"end":682.535,"text":"對法官有信心啊謝謝你啊法律要是寫這麼清楚如果按照這些所謂寫死的要件法官再有信心都沒辦法啦奇怪你剛剛又有問副秘書長你又插進來你滿熱心回答的我告訴你副秘書長上次我已經講過了你也不能代表法院"},{"start":692.981,"end":703.845,"text":"法官怎麼去裁定要不要羈押不是你能決定也不是法務部長能決定信心不能代表一切人就是有可能放出來那我再想請教我們部長回到您了我們我想請教您請問您知道嗎"},{"start":710.438,"end":739.751,"text":"我們現在一年大概平均這個有一百五十位殺人犯但一年平均有2.5位被三審判死刑這是過去我們很長一段時間的紀錄那我以2000年到2007年死刑定驗29位2008年到2015年死刑定驗23位但是你知道2016年蔡英文上台之後到她卸任總共多少位被三審判死"},{"start":741.63,"end":761.126,"text":"你知道嗎?這八年期間省裡的七百多位殺人犯然後呢就是有兩位被三審判死我要跟部長說的是我們民進黨上台其實已經接近實質廢死了現在大法官又把門檻調得這麼高"},{"start":763.386,"end":789.914,"text":"這才是人民憤怒啊你看到說今天司徒獎的女老師今天慘死跟市審判決改判免死最高法院直接告訴大家就是按照大法官憲判八號判決下來的意旨來做出所謂的免死確判然後人就確判了那接下來我們看到未來這37位死囚一樣會有這個問題啊"},{"start":792.15,"end":797.718,"text":"所以沒有關係部長我要告訴您您的保證有沒有辦法保證人不放出來"},{"start":798.703,"end":823.808,"text":"只是當然你也沒辦法改變這些東西因為大法官的憲法解釋就出來了反正大法官就是太上皇阿他今天高興怎麼做就怎麼做還不管八成民意反廢死阿那剛剛你們也委屈阿我先幫你多說一點話可是你們也沒辦法阻止今天將來所謂的發回更審所謂的撤銷死刑判決之後這些人會不會放出來根本不是你們能決定的以上謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":600,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（10時14分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：麻煩部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["羅委員智強：請問部長，昨天我針對偵查不公開的質詢，你覺得我是在干涉個案嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分委員沒有提到個案的問題。"],["羅委員智強：謝謝你，感謝部長公開打臉了吳思瑤，吳思瑤就是一個想護航卻常常幫倒忙的綠色豬隊友啦！我要謝謝部長端正視聽，我昨天沒有干涉個案，謝謝部長還我清白。不過我也要問問部長，吳思瑤昨天影射我質詢是干涉個案，他說這個干涉個案的質詢對部長會不會產生很大的壓力，部長，你回答什麼？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這種干涉個案的話，如果說有這些的話，我當然會有……"],["羅委員智強：你回答你承受了莫大的壓力，好大的壓力，來，我問部長，我到底給了你什麼壓力？請問部長，我有像柯建銘一樣關說你，叫你指揮底下的檢察官，不要上訴柯建銘，讓他無罪逃獄嗎？有沒有？我昨天有沒有？我有沒有？"],["鄭部長銘謙：柯總召不會給我做這樣的一個……"],["羅委員智強：我說我啦！我有沒有學柯總召啦？拜託，部長……"],["鄭部長銘謙：柯總召……這個事情……"],["羅委員智強：全民電通案，柯建銘之所以可以無罪逃獄是因為沒有關說司法罪，但全民電通案鐵錚錚的事實，他就去關說司法機關。再請教你下一個問題，我有像前法務部長邱太三一樣，針對醫院的逃漏稅案關說桃園地檢署的檢察長嗎？有沒有？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分……"],["羅委員智強：我有沒有啦！你不要管別人啦！我有沒有啦？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這我沒辦法去回答這個問題，因為……"],["羅委員智強：有沒有啦！拜託……"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員，因為您的這個問題不是我……"],["羅委員智強：沒關係，部長，你的風格我知道。再來我再問你，還是說我是賴清德的愛將，我要你大辦在野黨、小辦執政黨，你很掙扎，有嗎？有沒有？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不知道……"],["羅委員智強：當然沒有啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不知道有……"],["羅委員智強：我不太理解啦……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我也不理解……"],["羅委員智強：我一個在野黨立委到底能給你多麼莫大的壓力啦！當然我跟你講，我一個在野黨立委在立法院揭露今天許多偵查公開的訊息，勉勵你們捍衛刑事訴訟法的偵查不公開，是能給你什麼莫大的壓力？還干涉個案！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分……"],["羅委員智強：我要跟部長說……"],["鄭部長銘謙：偵查不公開，我一直在捍衛……"],["羅委員智強：沒關係，你捍衛，我尊重你啦，我只給部長一個勸告，吳思瑤就是立法院有名的造謠王，經常當豬隊友亂造謠，我舉個例子，今天部長你為人剛正、不偷不搶嘛！對不對？沒錯吧！"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員肯定。"],["羅委員智強：當然啊！結果今天有個吳造謠對羅智強說：我跟你講，鄭銘謙就是一個一天到晚偷人家東西的人。他跟我這樣講，然後我回答說：對、對、對，是、是、是，我看到他偷我壓力很大。我跟你講，這個例子當然不存在，可是我要跟你講什麼？當你附和一個造謠者就是一個造謠的共犯，什麼叫承受莫大的壓力？昨天我們主席還問你這個問題，你也不肯回答，謝謝你今天還我清白，因為抱歉，事關我名譽，我非得問不可，我還是感謝部長，只是誠懇地奉勸部長，不要再附和吳造謠啦！吳思瑤是造謠王啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想……"],["羅委員智強：我想請教檢察總長……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有附和任何人。"],["羅委員智強：總長，謝謝您，部長你也留著，因為待會有問題要問你。請問總長，113年憲判字第8號出爐已經一個月了，針對目前37位死刑犯，初步認定他們會提非常上訴還是不會提非常上訴的數量大概多少，或你已經有接到哪些提非常上訴了，有沒有開始提非常上訴了？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：委員好，這個問題很感謝委員關心，這個問題因為牽涉到很多人權，我們現在最高檢察署把這個卷調來之後，我們在研究，在10月24號，我們跟委員報告，這個案子現在都已經本署分案，我們現在依照憲判字8號的判決意旨，在逐案、逐項地研議中，跟委員報告。"],["羅委員智強：你給我講了15秒鐘，完全在浪費我的時間，這個答詢的風格我很欣賞。有多少人已經提了你不知道，就這麼簡單，提非常上訴總不是一個所謂的秘密事項吧？好啦！沒關係，我問你下一題，這一題都不肯回答，沒關係。想請教，如果今天總長你幫這37位死刑犯提出非常上訴，假設今天我們的法院按照大法官的審判意旨發回更審來撤銷原判，請問這些死刑犯會不會被放出來？我問部長好了，部長，法律你比他懂一點，來，部長，會不會放出來？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們會窮盡一切力量來阻止這些……"],["羅委員智強：鬼打牆，我就知道你會鬼打牆，沒關係，請問聲請羈押的要件是什麼，有哪幾個要件滿足才能夠羈押？你要聲請羈押嘛！對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：剛才委員問的問題，我們不是聲請羈押……"],["羅委員智強：一秒鐘、兩秒鐘、三秒鐘……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是要去……"],["羅委員智強：沒關係，會議詢問，他又不回答問題了！主席，會議詢問，時間暫停，請問主席，你也當過檢察官，聲請羈押的要件有哪幾種啊？"],["主席：聲請羈押，依照刑事訴訟法第一百零一條是逃亡或者是有串證、湮滅證據之虞；然後另外還有一個重罪羈押是五年以上重罪，然後有逃亡跟湮滅證據之虞；另外還有一個第一百零一條之一是預防性羈押，還有反覆實施犯罪之虞就會有這個問題。"],["羅委員智強：部長，學學我們會議主席啦！回答這麼清楚，我就問一個問題，法院在審酌這些所謂的羈押要件的時候，你去聲請羈押，法務部聲請羈押、檢察官聲請羈押，我想請問法官就會准嗎？滿足這些要件嗎？有滿足嗎？你又答不出來，沒關係我再問你……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有答不出來。"],["羅委員智強：我問你下一個問題，沒關係、沒關係，我告訴你，第一個，我們已經講過了，你沒辦法左右法院嘛！法院決定採不採你的羈押的理由……"],["鄭部長銘謙：那是不是委員這個問題可以問司法院嘛！"],["羅委員智強：沒關係嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不是承辦法官嘛！但是我想我們檢方，我已經講過很多次了，我們就是用……"],["羅委員智強：好啦、好啦、好啦，我跟你講，我不為難你啦！你跟我講你保證會聲請羈押嘛！你上次講的啊，你保證會要求法官羈押啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：現在問題是要問司法院，因為我不是承辦法官，我不是……"],["羅委員智強：你上次保證，現在又不是，沒關係，你要跟我混時間……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我保證我會窮盡一切的力量……"],["羅委員智強：來，我問下一個問題，沒關係啦！這題跳過、跳過、跳過、跳過、跳過、跳過、跳過、跳過、跳過、跳過，你不回答跳過嘛！我問你下一個問題嘛！好，我想請教您，請問羈押有沒有期限，最多可以押多久？"],["鄭部長銘謙：羈押這個……這個在……這個以前那個……這個羈押……"],["羅委員智強：這個那個、這個那個！會議詢問，停止時間！"],["鄭部長銘謙：15個月……"],["羅委員智強：會議時間！來，我們請問主席……"],["鄭部長銘謙：那我可以講嘛……"],["羅委員智強：羈押多久？沒關係，你剛剛跟我混時間，我乾脆問主席快一點。"],["主席：如果是10年以下的罪是依照刑事訴訟法第一百零八條，因為審判期間是羈押3個月，加3次延押6個月。"],["羅委員智強：對。"],["主席：如果是10年以上的重罪，依照妥訴審判法是羈押3個月，但是延押可以6次12個月；如果委員是在詢問殺人罪的話，那麼15個月是極限。"],["羅委員智強：所以押15個月押到極限以後就得放人嘛，是不是？請問主席。"],["主席：當然啦，因為在審理中你只能……你是在問我嘛？"],["羅委員智強：對對對，會議詢問、會議詢問。"],["主席：審理中是只有羈押……"],["羅委員智強：我問他，我剩1分鐘，問他都不回答，我只好問會議主席啦！"],["主席：因為審理中是只有羈押才能限制……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們要信任法官，法官在整個羈押期間把它審判完畢……"],["羅委員智強：沒關係，待會兒1分鐘讓你做結論，我們先會議詢問，請主席開示一下。"],["主席：就是審理中只有羈押才能限制被告的人身自由，只有這個方式而已。"],["羅委員智強：好。那我再請教，按照妥訴審判法第五條，請問在什麼情況之下人就得放出來？部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：就是第五條的規定啊！"],["羅委員智強：謝謝，第五條規定，我不懂問你嘛！好，沒關係，你答不出來……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不是答不出來、我不是答不出來，剛才都已經……"],["羅委員智強：會議詢問第3次，請主席回答。主席，妥訴審判法在什麼情況之下人又會被放出來？"],["主席：因為依照妥訴審判法只要是10年以上的重罪，他是可以延押6次，再加羈押3個月，所以總共是15個月，是他的最高的期限。"],["羅委員智強：那裡面有規定嘛，審判中羈押期限累計不得逾5年嘛，對不對？裡面也有規定審判中延期羈押所犯最重罪是死刑、無期徒刑、有期徒刑10年以上者，一審、二審以6次為限，第三審以1次為限。","所以很簡單，我要做個結論，來聽聽，我們的部長，第一個你的保證申請羈押不等於法院會採納，因為他不認為按照刑事訴訟法第一百零一條是符合要件；第二個就算今天關了押了，他也有15個月的期限；第三個又按照妥訴審判法的規定；最後一個更重要的事情，等到我們的總長非常上訴之後，我跟你講，發回重審開始所謂的撤銷死刑判決之後人就是很可能放出來啊，不是嗎？有沒有可能？你要推給司法院？來，副秘書長請。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：是不是啊？申請羈押法院一定會准嗎？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：申請羈押法院當然要審酌刑事訴訟法的羈押條件……"],["羅委員智強：對啊，所以還是同樣的問題，部長能夠保證他申請羈押法院法官就會准嗎？不能嘛！"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：獨立審判的這個部分……"],["羅委員智強：當然啊，如果法官沒准，人就怎麼樣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對法官要有信心。"],["羅委員智強：對法官要有信心啊？謝謝你啊！法律要是寫這麼清楚，如果按照這些所謂寫死的要件，法官再有信心都沒辦法啦！我就問……哎，奇怪了，你剛剛要我問副秘書長，你又插進來，你蠻熱心回答的嘛。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：法官一定會參酌，比如說檢察官申請羈押……"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，副秘書長，上次我已經講過了，你也不能代表法院，法官怎麼去裁定要不要羈押不是你能決定、不是法務部長能決定，信心不能代表一切，人就是有可能放出來。","我再想請教部長，回到您了，我想請教您，我們現在1年大概平均有150位殺人犯，1年平均有2.5位被三審判死刑，這是過去我們很長一段時間的紀錄，2000年到2007年死刑定讞29位、2008年到2015年死刑定讞23位，但是你知道2016年就是蔡英文上臺之後到她卸任總共有多少位被三審判死？你知道嗎？這八年期間審理的七百多位殺人犯，然後就是有2位被三審判死。我要跟部長說的是，民進黨上臺其實已經接近實質廢死了，現在大法官又把門檻調得這麼高，這才是令人民憤怒啊！你看到今天師鐸獎的女老師慘死，更四審判決改判免死，最高法院直接告訴大家就是按照大法官憲判字第8號判決下來的意旨做出所謂的免死確判，然後人就確判了。","那接下來我們看到未來這37位死囚一樣會有這個問題啊，所以沒有關係啦，部長我要告訴您，您的保證也沒辦法保證人不放出來，只是當然你也沒辦法改變這些東西，因為大法官的憲法解釋出來了，反正大法官就是太上皇啊，他今天高興怎麼做就怎麼做，他也不管有八成民意反廢死啊！那你們也委屈啦，我先幫你們多說一點話，可是你們也沒辦法阻止將來所謂的發回更審撤銷死刑判決之後這些人會被放出來，根本不是你們能決定的。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。羅委員，你這樣搞得我比備詢的官員還緊張。"],["羅委員智強：對呀、對呀，沒錯，因為你專業嘛！"],["主席：因為我國是成文法國家，所以羈押的要件只有那幾種，你要法官創設用成文法以外、用第一百零一條、第一百零一條之一以外的條文去押被告，我真的是覺得沒有法官敢，所以羅委員其實是要提這個，我也一直提出這個問題。","接下來我們請林思銘委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-8","speakers":["吳宗憲","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","黃國昌","沈發惠","羅智強","林思銘","吳思瑤","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","翁曉玲","陳俊宇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員鍾佳濱等19人\n擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百五十三條之十條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1139001_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}