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院裡面也高度重視所以陳政委員開了參辭會 剛才也報告過他主事來講已經由院長主持的社會福利推動委員會下設的一個專案小組由陳時中政委來負責"},{"start":224.091,"end":232.617,"text":"我們10月31號也會把在勞動部這一個方案推在執行方面我們認為用方案計畫來推就可以了"},{"start":254.251,"end":254.291,"text":"蘇清泉"},{"start":273.103,"end":280.225,"text":"每一年的儲蓄率又有20幾%所以我們每一年的那個錢可以用的是四五兆五兆多所以我們的金管會啊我們的那個都都都都不知道怎麼處理這都可以做很多事情"},{"start":301.874,"end":302.435,"text":"委員．蘇清泉"},{"start":317.14,"end":343.053,"text":"他老公很清楚啊他什麼病律用阿丁文寫用德文寫喔 藥師會我都沒有 可能他們高大時代都是大家所以現在的醫療院所醫生65歲也沒有退啊公家醫院現在也是66到70是一年一年聘啊然後到70歲以上就變成顧問醫師那像高一退下來的教授我們在東港請他們還身強體壯啊80歲"},{"start":347.253,"end":368.381,"text":"還會很公平還會怕踢足球所以Case by Case所以說65歲以上就沒有辦法工作那是笑話那護理的更糟糕護理的幾乎35歲以上的不可以上班啦過年啦一千個禮喔太可惜了啦每年進入職場的20歲到24歲的進入職場稀有情郎"},{"start":374.603,"end":398.393,"text":"結果30幾歲退出組長：也4、5千人所以林俊宇說什麼要到2030年要給幾萬人的副理組長我才看他怎麼做所以那個不簡單所以勞動部我覺得你來主責也不錯啦因為事實上這個跟你們最有關係啦那個行政院長蘇先生我感覺他這要繼續撒"},{"start":400.73,"end":403.254,"text":"繼續審然後如果民進黨這邊有提一個法案我們一起來審"},{"start":404.383,"end":428.839,"text":"那看看怎麼改當然這個裏面有一些還要再改那公聽會一次不夠我們辦兩次幾次都可以我認為這是一個思維的改變啊也不要一直排斥啦啊任務編組我還是不放心啦所以要把要把要把我們啊次長先問一下齁你的65歲以上的健保他要自己操你什麼叫他就一定要對他怕就要讓他怕到"},{"start":433.208,"end":433.488,"text":"蘇清泉議員吳春城"},{"start":457.903,"end":465.545,"text":"我自己自己有的財富還不錯的,有讓他自己繳嘛,這個不用到什麼一定要給兒女掛在兒女身上,年輕人一定很辛苦,這個也要改好不好,不改我主動會幫你改嘛。"},{"start":485.43,"end":487.074,"text":"蘇清泉委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":664,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（11時32分）謝謝主席。我請行政院蘇永富處長，還有何部長。我先請處長回應一下，今天提出這個有關壯世代的案子，請問行政院的態度是什麼？"],["蘇處長永富：謝謝委員。依照10月17日國發會在最新的人口推估的部分，我們明年就要進入超高齡的社會，2070年我們老人人口的比例是占到46.5%，在全世界裡面，我們僅次於南韓的47.5%，我們更比日本的38.7%還高，所以未來進入高齡社會，我們是很快速地在人口老化，所以吳委員提出了有關壯世代的法案，我們目前在高齡社會白皮書、因應超高齡社會對策方案之外，之後再提壯世代對策，院長指示陳時中政務委員，已經開了三次專案會議，那我們在10月31日，勞動部會彙整各部會的意見，提了一個壯世代的……"],["蘇委員清泉：我插一下話，你們現在提了一些老人福利法、中高齡相關政策上一大堆，各式各樣的一大堆，沒有統合，名稱也沒統合，就剛剛廖偉翔講的，老人被你叫老人，他們很不爽，所以壯世代這個名字，我覺得不錯。","第二，我們臺灣的出生率全世界最後一名，所以用你們現在提的這些招數，我跟你說，生小孩也是一樣越來越少，老人也是越來越老，所以改一個想法，改一個方向，或是統合一下，不然的話，吳春城提出來，怎麼會那麼多人給他連署？我也是共同提案人。所以民進黨、國民黨、民眾黨大家都關注，到今天只是拿出來審一下，當然這樣是比較倉促，但是大家說要公聽會、要辦協調會都可以，我一定是照辦，但是我們希望行政院用一個任務編組，院長交代，這樣就有很大的效率，陳時中來負責，陳時中也不做了，要怎麼辦？換何佩珊去做？"],["蘇處長永富：跟召委報告，有關於老人的定義，是在老人福利法，按照國際上的定義，我們是65歲是老人。那壯世代的部分，在國際上現在是沒有定義的，壯世代是國際上沒有定義的，那我們要考慮到我們的國情，我們現在如果以本法草案裡面定義的壯世代是55歲的國民的話，那我們現在還有超過13%的人是失能人口，失能人口那個部分被說是壯世代，我想這個名詞用法律去定義它的名詞定義，就要考慮。","第二個，我們現在針對壯世代這個議題，院裡面也高度重視，所以陳政務委員已經開了三次會，剛才也報告過，在組織上，已經有院長主持的社會福利推動委員會下設的一個專案小組，有陳時中政委來負責，我們10月31日也會把在勞動部這個方案推出，所以在執行方面，我們認為用方案計畫來推就可以了。"],["蘇委員清泉：專案計畫就是臨時編組、任務編組，因人設事，如果那個人沒有了，這個編組就沒有用了。處長，你聽一下，我要再問的第二個問題，部長，我們65歲以上的男人還在上班的才十幾%，然後女性更少，只有六點多%，比韓國和日本的二、三十%或三、四十%，這一塊真的要改善，這七、八百萬人沒有好好利用，實在很可惜。"],["何部長佩珊：是，我們現在正在努力。"],["蘇委員清泉：對啦！臺灣一年的GDP號稱有23兆臺幣，那每一年的儲蓄率又有二十幾%，所以我們每一年可以用的錢是四、五兆多，所以我們的金管會等單位都不知道錢那麼多要怎麼處理，這些都可以做很多事情，讓達到可以退休年紀的人以後還可以繼續工作，我們醫生根本就沒有退休年齡，我跟大家報告，我岳父90歲還在看婦產科門診，我跟他說：「還有人要給你看，我真的很佩服你。」他頭腦很清楚，他寫避孕藥用拉丁文寫，用德文寫，我說「夭壽」，我都不會。他們在古早時代都是讀原文。所以現在的醫療院所醫師65歲也沒有退，公家醫院現在也是，66歲到70歲的醫師是一年一年聘，然後到70歲以上就變成顧問醫師。像高醫退下來的教授，我們在東港請他們來看診，他們還身強體壯啊，80歲還會追公車，還會打網球。所以要case by case。所以說65歲以上就沒有辦法工作，那是笑話。"],["何部長佩珊：當然。"],["蘇委員清泉：護理的更糟糕，護理的幾乎35歲以上就不要上班了，說要帶小孩，有一千個理由，太可惜了啦。每年進入職場的，20歲到24歲的，進入職場的有四、五千人，結果三十幾歲退出職場的也有四、五千人，所以林靜儀說什麼到2030年要多幾萬名護理組長，我再看他怎麼做。所以那個不簡單，所以勞動部，我覺得你在主責也不錯啦，因為事實上這個跟你們最有關係啦。至於行政院這邊，蘇先生，我覺得他要繼續推、繼續推，然後如果民進黨這邊有提法案，我們一起來審，看看怎麼改，當然這個裡面有一些還要再改，公聽會一次不夠，我們辦兩次，幾次都可以，我覺得這是一個思維的改變，也不要一直排斥，任務編組我還是不放心。","次長，最後一點，65歲以上的健保，有人要自己繳，你們為什麼叫他一定要跟著他兒子，要讓他兒子繳？很多65歲以上的人說要自己繳，他們自己的經濟就不錯，你們叫他們讓兒子繳，這是造成年輕人更大的負擔而已啊，這個要改，馬上改，好不好？"],["呂次長建德：好，感謝。"],["蘇委員清泉：因為現在40年次、50年次那一代是最苦的時代，資源最匱乏，但是他們也是又勤儉，又小氣，現在大家都有存一些財富，也比年輕人經濟狀況好，當然有些是失能的或有其他狀況的，當然一定有，但是這些人他們自己有辦法養活自己，自己的財富還不錯的，你就讓他們自己繳嘛，這個不用一定要掛在兒女身上，年輕人已經很艱苦了，這個馬上來改，好不好？你不改，我主動會幫你改。","好，我當召委，不能浪費時間。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蘇清泉委員。"],["主席（蘇委員清泉）：好，接續我們請邱鎮軍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":160,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-26,19-1","speakers":["蘇清泉","黃秀芳","邱議瑩","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","吳春城","陳昭姿","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","劉建國","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","林倩綺","林國成","涂權吉","蔡易餘","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","盧縣一","張嘉郡","陳超明","林憶君","邱志偉","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查委員吳春城等42人擬具「壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案」案","agenda_id":"1139001_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}