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8,"end":478.117,"text":"你從蔡英文總統、蘇貞昌院長、賴清德時任院長到現在都已經貴為總統了他們都答應我說錢不是問題技術你找營商你看600萬的工程去得標但是回答的卻是找世西工程公司世西說沒有問題啊這個大橋在當然它是很艱鉅的"},{"start":479.502,"end":505.008,"text":"你看大陸從平潭到福州的公鐵大橋我親自到現場去看過它水深比馬祖的水域還深它的艱難度比馬祖的還更困難它已經完成了很多完成的例子在那邊所以所謂用技術性的問題在那邊推、拖、拉不是辦法我希望院長你能不能回答我,您的態度怎麼樣?"},{"start":506.447,"end":531.621,"text":"報告委員,當然這個計畫已經走了一長段的時間那過去賴總統也表達過他支持這個案子那現在交通部的部分應該已經也都送到行政院現在就在等國科會、國發會那邊正在審議那委員我知道您希望能夠趕快促成這件事情評議商的報告回來沒有?還沒為什麼?他標案到10月底啊"},{"start":533.683,"end":562.222,"text":"但是這個部分是國發會他們主辦,那委員您今天在這裡交代,我就來去問國發會問說可不可以加速一下,或者是去問一下英商英商的報告也是從世紀裡面抄來的,也是抄本,浪費了這600萬我在這邊老實的講,600萬只夠英商的人事費英國人的薪水是很高的,他待遇是非常高的他跑去問世紀幹什麼?問世紀的水文資料、水深資料,你去問這幹什麼?"},{"start":563.7,"end":578.623,"text":"你能夠有能力,六百萬有能力去鑽探嗎?不可能嘛所以一定是世襲提供的資料所以要查證如果是不可行的話,那就是你們告訴他弄個不可行的報告出來一定是這樣子的我堅信啊"},{"start":579.591,"end":604.933,"text":"我們的四溪市應該是全國最優秀的一個工程公司金門大橋都可以蓋了起來馬祖大橋只有3公里,金門6點多公里有什麼問題?所以公路總局在這一段也沉積了一段時間我也沒有去逼陳局長,我知道問題是在上頭所以部長你能不能跟卓院長碰到賴總統跟他報告一下"},{"start":605.954,"end":629.52,"text":"希望能夠圓我們馬祖人民的一個夢這個大橋是我們馬祖最重要的基礎建設因為兩個座大橋連結起來以後機場才有可能廢掉一座兩座大橋沒有連結起來我們的機場不可能廢掉一座而且現在的機場說真的顯像還生像昨天你看看側風降落是很危險的"},{"start":631.25,"end":643.084,"text":"Go around一次、兩次那一種降落是非常危險的不要說出了事情我們再來後悔都來不及部長您承諾我好不好好,我跟院長、行政院這邊來反映這件事"},{"start":646.049,"end":675.088,"text":"你能不能跟我講一下,不要像前幾任一直在那邊打太極拳、推拖拉、在那邊踢啤酒行就行,不行就不行嘛,什麼原因嘛交通部的程序已經也走完,那也表示說交通部是有方案我沒有怪你們,交通部非常的幫忙那委員在交代的國發會的進度我們來了解,並且希望他們能夠趕快但是這個案子不能一拖再拖、一拖再拖啊是不是?也有人告訴我說,你是交通委員會的召委"},{"start":676.749,"end":704.065,"text":"你就把交通部的預算給他砍掉嘛砍掉個300億、500億你看他給不給你我們總裁也跟我講我們拿到議會去表決嘛 對不對我們做人主決議嘛 我都沒有啊我有責備過你們嗎?我有責難過你們嗎?我從來沒有我從來沒有是不是我們院長也講了啊你預算的東西不要去增加嘛你循著他的程序來走嘛"},{"start":704.554,"end":728.517,"text":"那我已經按照規矩,我也沒跟你鬧啊,我按照規矩,規規矩矩的按照程序在走啦很像是壞了小孩子才有糖吃,乖了小孩子沒糖吃,很像是這樣子我現在的感想越來越像,是不是?我想部長你也不希望我在交通委員會裡面來審你們的預算、砍你們的預算,我來鬧"},{"start":729.554,"end":756.316,"text":"沒有意義嘛是不是你們總是要釋出一點善意你不能欺負好人啦是不是交通部給努力的部分交通部來努力我也幫你們交通部你看也努力了很久我想交通部的同仁也好對陳雪生委員應該都是給我大拇指的是不是當然我也謝謝你們給了我們馬祖很多的建設了但是那是不夠的因為我們真的我們一生出來就是個畸形兒"},{"start":757.817,"end":782.616,"text":"我們飽受戰火的摧殘,到現在為止你看金門的建設,我們要落後金門的建設起碼30年是不是?我拜託部長,在你任內你昨天已經展現魄力了,我希望你今天再一次展現你的魄力好不好?跟莊院長報告、跟賴總統報告,這個事情我看還是要賴總統來拍板莊院長當然他是行政院院長"},{"start":784.698,"end":790.624,"text":"賴總統答應了事,你重新再跟他報告一次好不好?好那謝謝部長,也謝謝局長你們的辛苦,謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":434,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（11時21分）謝謝召委。請交通部陳部長還有公路總局陳局長。"],["主席：請陳部長、陳文瑞局長。"],["陳委員雪生：部長早。"],["陳部長世凱：委員早。"],["陳委員雪生：謝謝您昨天果斷而且英明的決定，請何局長很努力地處理這件事。"],["陳部長世凱：是，他們會努力處理航班的問題。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，我今天要跟你談馬祖大橋，因為自你上任以來，我還沒跟你詳細地談。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：賴總統在行政院長任內核定了馬祖大橋的可行性評估，而且進入了綜合計畫，他也曾經前往現址會勘，而且講過只要可行的話，錢不是問題，較前幾任行政院長對馬祖大橋的作為可以說相對務實。前幾天我也碰到卓院長，還問他馬祖大橋什麼時候決定？他說：「你總預算不要卡關啊！你協助我們啊！我們就讓你過關。」卓院長當然……"],["陳部長世凱：總預算要過，才有辦法建設地方。"],["陳委員雪生：對於他跟我講的，我也很樂意協助，希望讓總預算趕快審查。","賴總統在113年雙十國慶以團結臺灣、共圓夢想為題發表演說，強調「更要加強離島地區的基礎建設，提升生活品質和觀光量能」，由此可見賴總統對離島的務實了解。就我們離島馬祖而言，四十餘年以來，大概只有槍砲聲，沒有基礎建設的機械聲，顯示出我們建設的落後。山上原來種了一些高粱、地瓜，現在沒有了；以前出海有很多黃魚、曾經是黃魚的故鄉啊！現在魚也找不到了。島際交通需乘風破浪，而且夜間不相往來，因為到了晚上沒辦法開船。空中交通的效率奇差無比，來去身不由己，需要碰運氣；來不易、回更難，且常被關島，像昨天側風很大，飛機無法降落，海委會主委到那邊去，還跑到北竿坐飛機回來。所以馬祖說真的需要大家的幫忙。","馬祖大概是由36個島嶼組成的，而且島與島之間有秀麗景色、美不勝收，美中不足的就是沒有橋梁連接，致使人民的生活品質大受影響。你看，現在金門有金門大橋，澎湖有澎湖大橋，我聽楊曜委員講，還要再做一座大橋啦！而馬祖更具有舉世無雙的媽祖肉身靈穴，擁有獨特的「聖地」觀光量能，但是因為缺乏南北竿島際交通基礎建設，縱然南北竿有兩座不合格的小機場，也致使載客量有限，沒有辦法發揮觀光量能。我在總質詢還曾經提到，目前國產署、軍備局占領了馬祖85%土地，那天部長也在場嘛！我跟卓院長報告說，如果你是連江縣的縣長，你對馬祖這樣的觀光勝地、那麼漂亮的島嶼，要怎麼發揮所長？怎麼樣能讓它變得更美？南竿島跟北竿島的連結是非常重要的，因為南竿那邊已經沒有腹地可以蓋了，只有北竿那邊還可以蓋一些觀光旅館。所以馬祖需要賴總統在雙十國慶演說中的務實主張，而且更要加強南北竿跨海大橋、也就是馬祖大橋的基礎建設，該大橋的綜合計畫已經完成，而且由交通部陳報到行政院核定。大家都知道，金門大橋是國民黨籍馬英九總統執政時核定的，也蓋好了，我們也希望馬祖大橋能夠在民進黨籍賴總統執政的時候核定興建，況且早已核定綜合計畫了嘛！所以我們亟盼賴總統和馬祖人民一同共圓馬祖大橋夢，實現提升生活品質和觀光量能的目標。","我現在簡單介紹大橋的時程，107年那時候賴總統同意辦理綜合計畫；110年4月23日，南北竿大橋綜合規劃的期中報告也完成了；110年8月以後，綜合計畫由交通部三次報院，過程中互踢皮球、各打太極拳；111年行政院秘書長要求再檢討本案的工法、經費及計畫效益並修正，再報行政院。113年，國發會委託英商奧雅納工程顧問有限公司台北分公司繼續辦理，也完成了結案報告，繼續探討；113年5月6日，綜合規劃路線長約3.1公里，經費大概288億元，施工期程大概8年。","部長，賴清德總統曾經講，攸關馬祖未來百年發展大計的橋是馬祖人民應該要得到的，大橋案在自己手中推動，一定要全力促成。我在這邊強調的是，我昨天也講過，臺灣蓋了那麼多高鐵、捷運，花了幾百億元、幾兆元啊！是不是？那我們金門、馬祖人民在砲火中成長、在戰雲中茁壯，我希望部長上來完成。為什麼呢？因為這件案子好像在上頭一直打轉、一直打轉，我本來以為107年賴院長批了以後，大概108年、109年綜合規劃出來以後，可以進入建設計畫。所以我前幾天拜託卓院長重視這樣的問題，因為不可能無止盡地打轉嘛！從蔡英文總統、蘇貞昌院長、賴清德時任院長、到現在都已經作為總統了，他們都答應我、說錢不是問題。技術上，你看找了英商得標600萬元工程，回答的卻是找世曦工程公司！世曦說沒有問題啊！當然，這座大橋是很艱鉅的。但你看看大陸從平潭到福州的公鐵大橋，我親自到現場看過，水深比馬祖水域還深，論艱難度，又比馬祖更困難，而它已經完成了。有很多完成的例子，所以用所謂的技術性問題推啊！拖啊！拉啊！不是辦法，部長，您能不能回答我，您的態度怎麼樣？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，當然這項計畫已經走了一長段時間，過去賴總統也表達過他支持這個案子，就交通部的部分也都送到行政院，現在就是在等國發會，國發會正在審議。委員，我知道您希望能夠趕快促成這件事情……"],["陳委員雪生：英商的報告回來沒有？"],["陳部長世凱：還沒回來。"],["陳委員雪生：為什麼？標案到10月底啊！"],["陳部長世凱：但這部分是由國發會主辦，既然委員今天在這裡交代，我就去問國發會可不可以加速一下，或者問一下英商為什麼到現在還沒回來。"],["陳委員雪生：英商的報告也是從世曦那邊抄來的、也是抄本，所以浪費了這600萬元，我在這邊要老實地講，600萬元只夠英商的人事費欸！英國人的薪水是很高的、待遇是非常高的，他們跑去問世曦幹什麼？問世曦水文資料、水深資料，但問這個幹什麼？600萬元有能力鑽探嗎？不可能嘛！所以一定是世曦提供的資料。所以你要查證，如果不可行的話，那就是你們就告訴它弄個不可行的報告出來，一定是這樣的！我堅信我們的世曦應該是全國最優秀的工程公司，金門大橋都蓋得起來，馬祖大橋只有3公里，相較於金門大橋有六點多公里，有什麼問題呢？","公路總局也沉寂了一段時間啦！我也沒有去逼陳局長，因為我知道問題在上頭。"],["陳部長世凱：對、是。"],["陳委員雪生：所以，部長能不能跟卓院長、碰到賴總統時也跟他報告一下，希望能圓我們馬祖人民的夢。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["陳委員雪生：這座大橋是我們馬祖最重要的基礎建設，因為兩座大橋連結以來以後，機場才有可能廢掉一座；要是兩座大橋沒有連結起來，我們的機場不可能廢掉一座。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：而且以現在的機場，說真的險象環生，像昨天那種側風，降落是很危險的，飛機go-around一次、兩次，那種降落是非常危險的，不要等出了事情再後悔，那就來不及了。部長，您承諾我好不好？您看看多久能夠給我回答？"],["陳部長世凱：好，我跟院長和行政院反映這件事。"],["陳委員雪生：你能不能跟我講一下？不要像前幾任一直打太極拳、推拖拉、踢皮球，行就行，不行就不行嘛！告訴我什麼原因嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：交通部的程序已經走完、也表示交通部支持這項方案……"],["陳委員雪生：我沒有怪你們，交通部非常幫忙！"],["陳部長世凱：對，委員交代的國發會進度，我們來了解，並且希望他們能夠趕快。"],["陳委員雪生：但是這個案子不能一拖再拖、一拖再拖啊！是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：也有人告訴我：「你是交通委員會召委，你就把交通部的預算砍掉嘛！砍個三百億元、五百億元，看他給不給你。」我們總召也跟我講，可以拿到院會表決嘛！對不對？做成主決議嘛！但是我都沒有啊！我有責備過你們嗎？我有責難過你們嗎？我從來沒有！我從來沒有，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：我們院長也講啦！預算不要增加嘛！循著程序走嘛！而我已經按照規矩、也沒跟你鬧啊！我按照規矩、規規矩矩地按照程序走啦！可是好像壞的小孩才有糖吃，乖的小孩沒糖吃欸！好像是這樣，我現在的感想愈來愈像了。我想，部長也不希望我在交通委員會審你們預算時砍你們的預算、來鬧吧！沒有意義，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：你們總是要釋出一點善意，不能欺負好人啊！是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：交通部可以努力的部分，交通部來努力。"],["陳委員雪生：我也幫你們交通部努力了很久，我想，交通部包含同仁也好，對於陳雪生委員應該是……"],["陳部長世凱：大家都知道委員很幫忙。"],["陳委員雪生：應該都是給我大拇指的，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：當然我也謝謝你們給了我們馬祖很多建設，但那是不夠的，因為我們真的一生出來就是個畸形兒，飽受戰火的摧殘。到現在，你看看金門的建設，我們落後金門建設起碼三十年了，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：拜託部長，你昨天已經展現魄力了，我希望你今天再一次展現你的魄力，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：我們來努力。"],["陳委員雪生：跟卓院長報告、跟賴總統報告。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["陳委員雪生：我看這件事還是要賴總統來拍板。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：卓院長當然是行政院院長，但也是賴總統答應的事，你再重新跟他報告一次，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["陳委員雪生：謝謝部長，也謝謝局長你們的辛苦。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。","接下來有請陳素月召委發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":366,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-7","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","林沛祥","林俊憲","許智傑","廖先翔","徐富癸","邱若華","陳雪生","陳素月","蔡其昌","林月琴","李坤城","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","賴惠員","黃健豪","羅廷瑋","羅智強","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","黃捷","游顥","陳冠廷"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、公平交易委員會主任委員李鎂、數位發展部次長、勞動部次長、衛\n生福利部、經濟部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及行政院消費者保護處就「外送平台之整併、收\n費指引、個資保護、產業發展、勞工權益及食品物流安全規範」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、\n邀請交通部公路局局長就「公路大型客貨運駕駛短缺之因應措施暨現行遊覽車評鑑制度之檢討與\n精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139001_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}