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謝謝壯世代成為現在職場非常熱門關鍵字過去呢我們中年轉職不易到半途沒有人要請所以呢企業普遍喜歡運用這個年輕人但是我們也看到少子化的問題國發會在10月17號做了一個公佈2020年到2070年"},{"start":51.229,"end":74.585,"text":"2070年我們會減少人口800多萬人換句話說2070年國發會所公布的我們臺灣只剩下1500人CIA的公布美國中情局公布我們是全世界少子化生育能力第一名"},{"start":75.646,"end":98.217,"text":"最後一名所以剛剛我也跟國防會的主委在討論要怎麼樣去解決這個問題那所以提出了壯世代之所以必須要有這個法也就是讓政府能夠去看到這個問題而且也有所依歸怎麼樣去做大家贊不贊同這樣的一個論點"},{"start":100.029,"end":128.925,"text":"三位都頻頻的點頭OK委員我非常感謝委員對這個問題的關心我也非常佩服委員的這個的vision那我想剛剛何部長剛剛也說了就是說作為一個反年齡歧視我想這是一個好的idea那可是現在有個問題現在就是說他現在目前這一個所謂的壯世代他有三個不明確第一個是整個學術概念上不明確第二個是整個法律概念不明確第三個是政策適用上不明確"},{"start":129.825,"end":147.467,"text":"您現在所回答的這三件我要感謝英明的召集人排定了這個議程因為我們已經看到臺灣面臨的困境問題在全世界生育率世界最後一名看到我們的人口"},{"start":149.257,"end":168.989,"text":"2070年我們只有1500萬人看到這樣子的一個憂心所以提出這樣的一個方針透過我們的法律案透過大家檢討所以我希望待會回答的各部會首長代表人你們應該要就針對既然你們剛剛三個都頻頻點頭就針對我們討論的議案"},{"start":175.333,"end":205.333,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":206.054,"end":221.508,"text":"給他擋起來,這樣子不好的所以呢你們也點頭我們就繼續來討論台灣的人口紅利剛剛我說的那個數字我們已經逐漸消失我又看到2023年勞動高齡的這個勞動的報告當中台灣65歲65歲的高齡者參與的只有9.9"},{"start":229.955,"end":245.66,"text":" 那我們要看到全世界現在國外經濟部我們全部都要跟世界接軌所以我們也看到其他各國他們的作為這才是一個有為的政府的部門應當要做的所以我們看到我們只有9.9勞動部長在這裡我們看到韓國38.3日本25.7美國19.2"},{"start":254.422,"end":262.291,"text":"那我們在少子化的情況又人口一直下降的情況我們要怎麼樣來加入我們的這個產業人口、勞動人口"},{"start":271.62,"end":289.506,"text":"世界各國有這樣的比例我們是10%都不到在這樣的情況之下我們要怎麼樣去因應請教勞動部長各位委員報告其實我們從109年中高齡專法設立以來每年平均增加10萬人到現在已經增加38萬人"},{"start":294.45,"end":306.441,"text":"您的方案您有努力我們看到但是我們一定要結果論你現在所做的還是全世界最低那我們有什麼精精方案可以滾動式的去檢討加速對"},{"start":308.403,"end":333.155,"text":"這也就是為什麼我們的預算要重溢該當部主因為立法院不可以給你加預算我們錢要花在刀口上我希望可以聽到您也就是你在努力當中現在你所做的都對但是我們的答案是僅有9.9我們跟世界各國比例差那麼多我們還有什麼因應方案因為"},{"start":334.275,"end":336.977,"text":"現在正在努力加速推出各樣的獎補助措施"},{"start":357.573,"end":368.578,"text":"對,來,對,包括55 Plus,壯世代就業促進措施,我們針對還有包括婦女在就業,還有,嘿,就是婦女在這個中高齡的族群。對,我們在這方面都有給僱主,也有給勞工,都有獎勵措施。"},{"start":384.645,"end":403.575,"text":"勞動部你把你進行方案就本席所提出我們65歲以上的高齡者勞動參與率只有9.9跟世界各國差距那麼大的時候你要怎麼樣進行方案你給本席好 謝謝我馬上就可以提供給您了馬上給我提供本席本席不答應你這樣子的回覆"},{"start":405.322,"end":424.816,"text":"你現在是全世界最低你還把現在有的剛剛本席在講的精進方案你把你現在做的還是一樣9.9啊本席要你的你已經做了我也給你贊許但是你要去精進方案啊在這裡回答不要隨隨便便"},{"start":425.997,"end":426.838,"text":"議員吳春城等42人擬具"},{"start":444.329,"end":465.639,"text":"不健康與命的部分因為我們要整體性橫向全部來連結我們看到65歲以上的高年人口我們是468萬人占總人口的20%而且一直在增長那我們看到內政部所公布2023年平均與命我也嚇一跳你們男生只有76.94要小心"},{"start":468.24,"end":490.431,"text":"女生 83.74平均是多少?平均是80.23雖然我們有叫前年度增加0.39那麼其中在這樣的一個年齡我們看到一個數字讓我會緊張我們國人平均不健康的餘命是高達8.5年"},{"start":492.893,"end":499.795,"text":"這個跟世界各國,我們的召集人是專家這個跟世界各國來比較,我們又是第一名"},{"start":500.919,"end":526.762,"text":"也是糟糕的第一名所以在這樣的一個情況之下我要請教我們衛福部市長部健康的餘命高達8.5年我們要怎麼樣去降低因為這個會牽扯到我們的勞動力怎麼降低我們要怎麼降低非常感謝委員垂詢我想大概我們現在目前賴總統他有一個健康台灣的一個方案對你十二旗艦"},{"start":527.563,"end":528.084,"text":"務必要加速!"},{"start":543.542,"end":562.993,"text":"因為你已經8.5 8.5年跟世界各國來比我們是拉太長了所以在這樣的情況之下怎麼樣你的2.0必須要速度加快到3.0世界訊息萬變我們如果依照原來的歸宿速度這是跟不上潮流的怎麼樣加強"},{"start":564.854,"end":564.874,"text":"市長﹖"},{"start":592.998,"end":609.527,"text":"你這個回答本席也沒有辦法接受因為你的兩萬五到三萬九這是循序漸進多久時間累計上來我們再加上近大概八年的時間對你越講大家越沒有辦法接受嘛所以我們看待的是"},{"start":610.347,"end":636.566,"text":"我們目前所面臨到的困境你要怎麼樣進進跟剛剛勞動部一樣我希望就針對我們不健康的平均餘命8.5年你們去進進方案好不好這個非常重要因為你政府有政策出來民眾會跟著走對不對我們已經看到答案不能就攤在那裡好不好你去進進那個方案給本席最後一個議題我覺得非常的重要長壽新經濟"},{"start":640.275,"end":640.456,"text":"議員吳春城"},{"start":664.378,"end":669.822,"text":"市長在這裡我們針對於長壽新經濟你政府要怎麼樣去協助這些的產業你怎麼樣去培植新創的這個產業鏈能夠達到我們消費者既然你知道會消費的人就是在壯世代55歲以上這一環那我們要怎麼樣去推動長壽經濟發展"},{"start":688.914,"end":689.034,"text":"請教次長。"},{"start":707.415,"end":727.824,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":727.824,"end":743.422,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":743.602,"end":750.647,"text":"市長你剛剛回答的是很美很美的一個境界但是這個計劃要能夠落實這個方案是怎麼樣你們大概多久時間可以把你這個長壽新經濟的商機的方案一個月"},{"start":765.376,"end":765.476,"text":"議員吳春城"},{"start":784.582,"end":811.817,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:56:25.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T11:56:25.308000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:56:26.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T11:56:32.078000+08:00","text":"楊瓊瓔發言，首先請勞動部、衛福部與經濟部，我們一起來討論這個案。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:56:46.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T11:57:23.478000+08:00","text":"壯世代成為現在職場非常熱門的關鍵字，過去我們中年轉職沒有人要僱用，因為企業普遍喜歡僱用年輕人，但是我們也看到少子化的問題，國發會在10月17日公布，2024年到2070年我們會減少八百多萬的人口，換句話說，依照國發會公布的數字，2070年我們臺灣只剩下1,500萬人。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:57:28.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T11:57:36.306000+08:00","text":"美國中情局CIA公布，我們是全世界少子化的第一名、生育率是最後一名。","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:57:38.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T11:57:58.217000+08:00","text":"剛剛我也與國發會主委討論如何解決這個問題，今天之所以提出壯世代這個法，其實是要讓政府看到這個問題，而且也能有所依歸，該怎麼樣去做，大家贊不贊同這樣的論點？","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:58:00.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T11:58:01.250000+08:00","text":"三位都頻頻地點頭！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-10-24T11:58:04.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T11:58:09.674000+08:00","text":"非常感謝委員對這個問題的關心，也非常佩服委員的vision！","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-10-24T11:58:10.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T11:58:28.925000+08:00","text":"剛剛何部長也表示訂定了反年齡歧視的規定，我想這是一個好的idea，但現在有一個問題，所謂的壯世代有3個不明確，第一個是整個學術概念上不明確，第二個是整個法律概念不明確，第三個是政策適用上不明確。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-10-24T11:58:28.925000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T11:58:29.986000+08:00","text":"我們做為一個法……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:58:29.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T11:59:02.325000+08:00","text":"你現在回答的這三件，我要感謝英明的召集人，排定了這個議程，因為我們已經看到臺灣面臨的困境問題，生育率是全世界的最後一名，看到我們在2070年的人口將只剩下1,500萬人，看到這樣令人憂心的狀況，所以提出這樣的方針，透過我們的法律案讓大家一起檢討。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:59:02.325000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T11:59:13.982750+08:00","text":"因此，我希望待會回答的各部會首長、代表人，既然剛才你們三個都頻頻點頭，那就針對我們討論的議案，它是一個新的東西，本來我們立法院提出的討論，也就是互相共同去討論，討論才能擦出這個火花，應對臺灣目前所面對的困境，而不是只有一句話說，這個法律位階不明確，它本來就沒有，當然不明確嘛！","quality":0.282},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:59:13.982750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T11:59:25.640500+08:00","text":"這個就是現在要討論的啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:59:25.640500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T11:59:37.298250+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:59:37.298250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T11:59:48.956000+08:00","text":"所以我希望我們的討論是有內容的，而不是只有一個擋牆將它擋起來，這樣是不好的。","quality":0.229},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:59:48.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T11:59:51.799000+08:00","text":"既然你們也點頭，我們就繼續來討論。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T11:59:51.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:00:23.219000+08:00","text":"臺灣的人口紅利，剛剛我說的那個數字已經逐漸消失，而我又看到2023年高齡的勞動報告中提到，臺灣65歲以上的高齡者參與率只有9.9%；我們再來看看全世界，因為無論是國發會或經濟部現在都應該要與世界接軌，所以我們也該看看其他各國的作為，這樣才是一個有為政府的部門應當要做的。","quality":0.782},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:00:25.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:00:42.271000+08:00","text":"今天勞動部長也在這裡，我們看到臺灣只有9.9%，但是韓國有38.3%、日本有25.7%、美國有19.2%，因此，我們在少子化的情況下、在人口一直下降的情況下，該如何增加我們的產業人口、勞動人口？","quality":0.658},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:00:51.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:01:01.103000+08:00","text":"看到世界各國有這樣的比例，而我們卻連10%都不到，在這樣的情況下，是否應該要有樣學樣，所以我們要怎麼樣去因應，請教勞動部長？","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-24T12:01:01.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:01:09.486000+08:00","text":"報告委員，其實我們從109年中高齡專法設立以來，每年平均增加10萬人，到現在已經增加38萬的中高齡就業人口。","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:01:14.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:01:17.133000+08:00","text":"好，我告訴部長，您的方案、你的努力，我們看到了。是。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:01:17.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:01:36.987000+08:00","text":"但是我們一定要結果論，你現在做的成果還是全世界最低，我們有什麼精進方案可以滾動式地加速檢討，這也是為什麼我們的預算要重議，該當不足的，立法院並不能幫你加預算，而且我們的錢要花在刀口上。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:01:42.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:01:52.614000+08:00","text":"現在你努力做的都對，但我們看到的結果是僅有9.9%，與世界各國的比例相差那麼多，所以我們還有什麼因應方案？","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:01:52.614000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:01:53.614000+08:00","text":"衛福部也在這裡，我們有全世界最好的健保，這個要怎麼辦？","quality":0.042},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:01:53.614000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:01:54.614000+08:00","text":"我們要如何運用這些有效的人才，請說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-24T12:01:54.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:01:56.957000+08:00","text":"委員，我們正在努力加速推出各樣的獎補助措施。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:01:56.957000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:02:07.265000+08:00","text":"努力加速？對。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:02:07.265000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:02:17.573000+08:00","text":"新的方案呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-24T12:02:17.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:02:27.177000+08:00","text":"包括55Plus壯世代就業促進措施、包括婦女再就業，也就是中高齡族群的婦女。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:02:27.177000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:02:28.177000+08:00","text":"這也是本席一直與你討論的，不要讓她因為生了一個孩子就回不了職場，對不對？對。","quality":0.029},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:02:28.177000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:02:29.177000+08:00","text":"你要如何讓她能夠對職場環境放心，這樣才能回得了啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-24T12:02:27.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:02:28.558000+08:00","text":"這方面無論是雇主或勞工都有獎勵措施。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:02:44.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:02:56.771000+08:00","text":"勞動部，針對本席提出的65歲以上高齡者勞動參與率只有9.9%，與世界各國差距那麼大的情況下，你要提出什麼樣的精進方案，提供給本席。","quality":0.732},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-24T12:02:57.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:02:57.832000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-24T12:02:57.832000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:02:58.832000+08:00","text":"委員，我會提供給你。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:02:58.832000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:02:59.832000+08:00","text":"多久的時間？","quality":0},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-24T12:02:58.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:00.113000+08:00","text":"馬上就可以提供給你了。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:00.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:01.494000+08:00","text":"馬上就可以提供給本席？是。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:01.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:15.810000+08:00","text":"本席不答應你這樣的回復，現在你已經是全世界最低了，還要把現有正在做的方案提出來，這樣還是只有9.9%啊！","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:17.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:21.574000+08:00","text":"對於你已經做的，本席也給你讚許，但是你要有精進方案啊！","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:22.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:24.796000+08:00","text":"在這裡回答不要隨隨便便！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:24.796000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:27.237625+08:00","text":"已經告訴你是9.9%，不生氣都不行！","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:27.237625+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:29.679250+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:29.679250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:32.120875+08:00","text":"你去想看看精進方案，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:32.120875+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:34.562500+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:34.562500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:37.004125+08:00","text":"多久時間告訴本席？","quality":0},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:37.004125+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:39.445750+08:00","text":"2個禮拜內。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:39.445750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:41.887375+08:00","text":"好，2個禮拜內告訴本席你的精進方案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:41.887375+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:44.329000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:44.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:03:58.876000+08:00","text":"接下來是衛福部，關於不健康餘命的部分，我們要整體橫向連結，然而我們看到65歲以上的高齡人口有468萬人，占總人口的20%，而且一直在增長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:03:59.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:04:05.619000+08:00","text":"看到內政部公布2023年的平均餘命，我也嚇一跳，你們男生只有76.94歲，要小心！","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:04:08.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:04:12.322000+08:00","text":"女生是83.74歲，平均是多少？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:04:12.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:04:15.864000+08:00","text":"平均是80.23歲。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:04:15.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:04:41.980000+08:00","text":"雖然我們比前年度增加了0.39歲，但是在其中又看到一個數字讓我感到緊張，我們國人的平均不健康餘命高達8.5年，這個與世界各國相比，我們的召集人是專家，我們又是第一名，也是糟糕的第一名。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:04:43.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:04:52.890000+08:00","text":"在這樣的情況之下，我要請教衛福部，次長，不健康餘命高達8.5年，我們要怎麼樣去降低？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:04:53.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:04:56.994000+08:00","text":"因為這個會牽扯到我們的勞動力，怎麼降低？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:04:57.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:04:58.275000+08:00","text":"我們要怎麼降低？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-10-24T12:04:58.275000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:05:07.563000+08:00","text":"非常感謝委員垂詢，目前賴總統有一個健康臺灣的方案，這裡面大概有三個主要的策略，第一個是健康的要讓他更健康，如果有兩種以上的慢性病就是亞健康，第三個就是長照的部分，我們分門別類，長照的部分目前已經做到2.0，準備要升級到3.0，另外……","quality":0.225},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:05:07.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:05:08.064000+08:00","text":"務必要加速。是。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:05:23.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:05:26.424000+08:00","text":"因為現在已經是8.5年了。沒錯。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:05:26.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:05:29.846000+08:00","text":"8.5年與世界各國相比，我們是拉太長了。是。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:05:30.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:05:36.589000+08:00","text":"在這樣的情況之下，你必須加快速度從2.0升級到3.0。沒錯。","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:05:36.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:05:42.893000+08:00","text":"世界瞬息萬變，如果我們還是依照原來龜速的速度，這樣是跟不上潮流的。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-10-24T12:05:42.893000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:05:43.893000+08:00","text":"是的，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:05:42.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:05:42.973000+08:00","text":"怎麼樣加快速度？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-10-24T12:05:42.973000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:05:57.985500+08:00","text":"報告委員，目前我們是將預算增加，另外也報告委員非常關心的一個部分，剛剛何部長也說了，我們的2.0，向委員報告一個數字，原先在2016年剛推出的時候是2萬5，到目前為止已經升到9萬5，這是第一個。","quality":0.013},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-10-24T12:05:57.985500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:06:12.998000+08:00","text":"第二個，薪資本來是22k，現在已經要達到3萬9，其實這裡面有很多是聘相關的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:06:12.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:06:21.963000+08:00","text":"次長，對於你的這個回答，本席也沒辦法接受，因為你說的2萬5升到3萬9是循序漸進多久的時間累積上來的？","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-10-24T12:06:22.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:06:25.124000+08:00","text":"將近8年的時間。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:06:25.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:06:27.185000+08:00","text":"對，你越講大家就越沒辦法接受。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:06:28.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:06:34.010000+08:00","text":"現在我們看待的是我們目前面臨到的困境，你要怎麼樣精進？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:06:34.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:06:42.496000+08:00","text":"像剛剛的勞動部一樣，我希望你針對我們的不健康平均餘命8.5年提出精進方案，好不好？好。","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:06:42.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:06:43.436000+08:00","text":"這是非常重要的。好。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:06:44.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:06:47.980000+08:00","text":"政府有政策出來之後，民眾就會跟著走，對不對？沒錯。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:06:47.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:06:51.302000+08:00","text":"我們已經看到答案，不能就攤在那裡，好不好？好的。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:06:51.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:06:53.103000+08:00","text":"你要提出精進方案給本席。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-10-24T12:06:53.103000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:06:54.103000+08:00","text":"OK，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:06:53.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:06:56.566000+08:00","text":"最後一個議題非常地重要，長壽新經濟。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:06:56.566000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:07:25.379000+08:00","text":"經濟部也在這裡，我們看到壯世代有三分之一的人口及三分之二的財富，顯示我們壯世代的消費力是最強的，你現在去看所有在走路、運動的，幾乎都是這個壯世代的人口，有的提早退休要找第二春的、要找工作環境的、要找工作生活的都在這裡。","quality":0.05},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:07:25.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:07:26.980000+08:00","text":"次長在這裡，針對長壽新經濟，政府要怎麼樣協助這些產業、怎麼樣培植新創的產業鏈？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:07:27.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:07:49.034000+08:00","text":"既然你知道能夠消費的人就是壯世代55歲以上的這一環，我們要怎麼樣推動長壽經濟發展，這也是我們一個很重要的經濟來源，尤其臺灣太美了，像我們臺中山海屯又有文化、又有海港、又有空港，都非常的方便，你要怎麼樣抓住壯世代長壽新經濟的商機，請教次長？","quality":0.355},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-10-24T12:07:49.034000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:08:16.398000+08:00","text":"這個健康產業是我們部長的一個重大政策，因此目前我們也極力從飲食、運動、智慧醫療三方面著手，讓這些人活得更健康、更有活力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-10-24T12:08:16.398000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:08:43.762000+08:00","text":"針對剛才委員講的那些不健康餘命等等比較不好的，我們要讓他怎麼在生活中活得更有尊嚴，甚至照顧的人可以更省力，這個輔具的發展也是我們後續在健康產業做的輔導。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:08:43.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:08:47.064000+08:00","text":"次長，你剛剛回答的是很美很美的一個境界。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-10-24T12:08:47.064000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:08:48.064000+08:00","text":"現在都有action plan在做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:08:47.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:08:47.725000+08:00","text":"但是這個plan要能夠落實。會。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:08:47.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:08:48.365000+08:00","text":"這個方案是怎麼樣，不知道！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:08:48.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:08:49.326000+08:00","text":"你們大概多久時間可以把長壽新經濟商機的方案……","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"連次長錦漳","start":"2024-10-24T12:08:49.326000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:08:50.326000+08:00","text":"1個月把方案給委員。1個月？對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:08:50.326000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:08:51.326000+08:00","text":"因為這整個連動效應非常大，而且我們要就地取材、取我們的優點，55歲以上有經濟能力消費的，我們來協助他，也協助整個產業的發展，像現在有很多老人飲食的餐廳，譬如東西會燉得比較爛或是它的坡道怎麼樣等等，如果政府能夠來協助、來推廣，可以讓我們全民的生活不斷提升，而且協助整個產業，所以你一個月內要把這些方案給本席。好。","quality":0.014},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-10-24T12:08:49.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-24T12:08:49.646000+08:00","text":"我們希望一起來推動長壽新經濟的商機，好嗎？好。謝謝。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-24T12:08:50.146000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:08:51.860286+08:00","text":"好，謝謝楊委員。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-24T12:08:52.160286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-24T12:08:54.160286+08:00","text":"接續請陳瑩委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":768,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時56分）謝謝主席。楊瓊瓔發言，首先請勞動部、衛福部與經濟部，我們一起來討論這個案。","壯世代成為現在職場非常熱門的關鍵字，過去我們中年轉職沒有人要僱用，因為企業普遍喜歡僱用年輕人，但是我們也看到少子化的問題，國發會在10月17日公布，2024年到2070年我們會減少八百多萬的人口，換句話說，依照國發會公布的數字，2070年我們臺灣只剩下1,500萬人。美國中情局CIA公布，我們是全世界少子化的第一名、生育率是最後一名。剛剛我也與國發會主委討論如何解決這個問題，今天之所以提出壯世代這個法，其實是要讓政府看到這個問題，而且也能有所依歸，該怎麼樣去做，大家贊不贊同這樣的論點？三位都頻頻地點頭！"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝委員對這個問題的關心，也非常佩服委員的vision！剛剛何部長也表示訂定了反年齡歧視的規定，我想這是一個好的idea，但現在有一個問題，所謂的壯世代有3個不明確，第一個是整個學術概念上不明確，第二個是整個法律概念不明確，第三個是政策適用上不明確。我們做為一個法……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你現在回答的這三件，我要感謝英明的召集人，排定了這個議程，因為我們已經看到臺灣面臨的困境問題，生育率是全世界的最後一名，看到我們在2070年的人口將只剩下1,500萬人，看到這樣令人憂心的狀況，所以提出這樣的方針，透過我們的法律案讓大家一起檢討。因此，我希望待會回答的各部會首長、代表人，既然剛才你們三個都頻頻點頭，那就針對我們討論的議案，它是一個新的東西，本來我們立法院提出的討論，也就是互相共同去討論，討論才能擦出這個火花，應對臺灣目前所面對的困境，而不是只有一句話說，這個法律位階不明確，它本來就沒有，當然不明確嘛！這個就是現在要討論的啊！對不對？所以我希望我們的討論是有內容的，而不是只有一個擋牆將它擋起來，這樣是不好的。","既然你們也點頭，我們就繼續來討論。臺灣的人口紅利，剛剛我說的那個數字已經逐漸消失，而我又看到2023年高齡的勞動報告中提到，臺灣65歲以上的高齡者參與率只有9.9%；我們再來看看全世界，因為無論是國發會或經濟部現在都應該要與世界接軌，所以我們也該看看其他各國的作為，這樣才是一個有為政府的部門應當要做的。今天勞動部長也在這裡，我們看到臺灣只有9.9%，但是韓國有38.3%、日本有25.7%、美國有19.2%，因此，我們在少子化的情況下、在人口一直下降的情況下，該如何增加我們的產業人口、勞動人口？看到世界各國有這樣的比例，而我們卻連10%都不到，在這樣的情況下，是否應該要有樣學樣，所以我們要怎麼樣去因應，請教勞動部長？"],["何部長佩珊：報告委員，其實我們從109年中高齡專法設立以來，每年平均增加10萬人，到現在已經增加38萬的中高齡就業人口。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我告訴部長，您的方案、你的努力，我們看到了。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是我們一定要結果論，你現在做的成果還是全世界最低，我們有什麼精進方案可以滾動式地加速檢討，這也是為什麼我們的預算要重議，該當不足的，立法院並不能幫你加預算，而且我們的錢要花在刀口上。現在你努力做的都對，但我們看到的結果是僅有9.9%，與世界各國的比例相差那麼多，所以我們還有什麼因應方案？衛福部也在這裡，我們有全世界最好的健保，這個要怎麼辦？我們要如何運用這些有效的人才，請說明。"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們正在努力加速推出各樣的獎補助措施。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：努力加速？"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：新的方案呢？"],["何部長佩珊：包括55Plus壯世代就業促進措施、包括婦女再就業，也就是中高齡族群的婦女。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這也是本席一直與你討論的，不要讓她因為生了一個孩子就回不了職場，對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要如何讓她能夠對職場環境放心，這樣才能回得了啊！"],["何部長佩珊：這方面無論是雇主或勞工都有獎勵措施。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：勞動部，針對本席提出的65歲以上高齡者勞動參與率只有9.9%，與世界各國差距那麼大的情況下，你要提出什麼樣的精進方案，提供給本席。"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝。委員，我會提供給你。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多久的時間？"],["何部長佩珊：馬上就可以提供給你了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：馬上就可以提供給本席？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席不答應你這樣的回復，現在你已經是全世界最低了，還要把現有正在做的方案提出來，這樣還是只有9.9%啊！對於你已經做的，本席也給你讚許，但是你要有精進方案啊！在這裡回答不要隨隨便便！已經告訴你是9.9%，不生氣都不行！對不對？你去想看看精進方案，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多久時間告訴本席？"],["何部長佩珊：2個禮拜內。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，2個禮拜內告訴本席你的精進方案。"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來是衛福部，關於不健康餘命的部分，我們要整體橫向連結，然而我們看到65歲以上的高齡人口有468萬人，占總人口的20%，而且一直在增長。看到內政部公布2023年的平均餘命，我也嚇一跳，你們男生只有76.94歲，要小心！女生是83.74歲，平均是多少？平均是80.23歲。雖然我們比前年度增加了0.39歲，但是在其中又看到一個數字讓我感到緊張，我們國人的平均不健康餘命高達8.5年，這個與世界各國相比，我們的召集人是專家，我們又是第一名，也是糟糕的第一名。在這樣的情況之下，我要請教衛福部，次長，不健康餘命高達8.5年，我們要怎麼樣去降低？因為這個會牽扯到我們的勞動力，怎麼降低？我們要怎麼降低？"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝委員垂詢，目前賴總統有一個健康臺灣的方案，這裡面大概有三個主要的策略，第一個是健康的要讓他更健康，如果有兩種以上的慢性病就是亞健康，第三個就是長照的部分，我們分門別類，長照的部分目前已經做到2.0，準備要升級到3.0，另外……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：務必要加速。"],["呂次長建德：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為現在已經是8.5年了。"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：8.5年與世界各國相比，我們是拉太長了。"],["呂次長建德：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：在這樣的情況之下，你必須加快速度從2.0升級到3.0。"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：世界瞬息萬變，如果我們還是依照原來龜速的速度，這樣是跟不上潮流的。"],["呂次長建德：是的，沒錯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：怎麼樣加快速度？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，目前我們是將預算增加，另外也報告委員非常關心的一個部分，剛剛何部長也說了，我們的2.0，向委員報告一個數字，原先在2016年剛推出的時候是2萬5，到目前為止已經升到9萬5，這是第一個。第二個，薪資本來是22k，現在已經要達到3萬9，其實這裡面有很多是聘相關的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：次長，對於你的這個回答，本席也沒辦法接受，因為你說的2萬5升到3萬9是循序漸進多久的時間累積上來的？"],["呂次長建德：將近8年的時間。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，你越講大家就越沒辦法接受。現在我們看待的是我們目前面臨到的困境，你要怎麼樣精進？像剛剛的勞動部一樣，我希望你針對我們的不健康平均餘命8.5年提出精進方案，好不好？"],["呂次長建德：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是非常重要的。"],["呂次長建德：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：政府有政策出來之後，民眾就會跟著走，對不對？"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們已經看到答案，不能就攤在那裡，好不好？"],["呂次長建德：好的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要提出精進方案給本席。"],["呂次長建德：OK，謝謝委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：最後一個議題非常地重要，長壽新經濟。經濟部也在這裡，我們看到壯世代有三分之一的人口及三分之二的財富，顯示我們壯世代的消費力是最強的，你現在去看所有在走路、運動的，幾乎都是這個壯世代的人口，有的提早退休要找第二春的、要找工作環境的、要找工作生活的都在這裡。次長在這裡，針對長壽新經濟，政府要怎麼樣協助這些產業、怎麼樣培植新創的產業鏈？既然你知道能夠消費的人就是壯世代55歲以上的這一環，我們要怎麼樣推動長壽經濟發展，這也是我們一個很重要的經濟來源，尤其臺灣太美了，像我們臺中山海屯又有文化、又有海港、又有空港，都非常的方便，你要怎麼樣抓住壯世代長壽新經濟的商機，請教次長？"],["連次長錦漳：這個健康產業是我們部長的一個重大政策，因此目前我們也極力從飲食、運動、智慧醫療三方面著手，讓這些人活得更健康、更有活力。針對剛才委員講的那些不健康餘命等等比較不好的，我們要讓他怎麼在生活中活得更有尊嚴，甚至照顧的人可以更省力，這個輔具的發展也是我們後續在健康產業做的輔導。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：次長，你剛剛回答的是很美很美的一個境界。"],["連次長錦漳：現在都有action plan在做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是這個plan要能夠落實。"],["連次長錦漳：會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個方案是怎麼樣，不知道！你們大概多久時間可以把長壽新經濟商機的方案……"],["連次長錦漳：1個月把方案給委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：1個月？"],["連次長錦漳：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為這整個連動效應非常大，而且我們要就地取材、取我們的優點，55歲以上有經濟能力消費的，我們來協助他，也協助整個產業的發展，像現在有很多老人飲食的餐廳，譬如東西會燉得比較爛或是它的坡道怎麼樣等等，如果政府能夠來協助、來推廣，可以讓我們全民的生活不斷提升，而且協助整個產業，所以你一個月內要把這些方案給本席。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們希望一起來推動長壽新經濟的商機，好嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝楊委員。","接續請陳瑩委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":160,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-26,19-1","speakers":["蘇清泉","黃秀芳","邱議瑩","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","吳春城","陳昭姿","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","劉建國","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","林倩綺","林國成","涂權吉","蔡易餘","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","盧縣一","張嘉郡","陳超明","林憶君","邱志偉","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查委員吳春城等42人擬具「壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案」案","agenda_id":"1139001_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}