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有請監管會主委請彭主委"},{"start":10.226,"end":37.901,"text":"主委好今天看到今晚會提出政府推動臺灣成為亞洲資產管理中心以及要協助金融科技新創產業的專題報告我拜讀完這份報告以後非常的有感觸我為什麼說我非常的有感觸我第一次聽到要把臺灣打造成亞洲資產管理中心亞洲第一個資產管理中心我第一次聽到這個口號是在2001年的時候"},{"start":39.862,"end":59.349,"text":"陳水扁政府2001年的時候陳水扁政府經過了23年經過了23年我們又重新的打出了這個口號能實踐不能實踐我一向不喜歡唱衰啦但我要提醒你我們上次打出這個口號是23年23年前"},{"start":62.63,"end":88.142,"text":"23年後的今天再度的打出這樣子的口號我覺得對於整個臺灣真的所謂不管是金融還是資產管理發展有所瞭解專業的人物專業的人士大家的感慨是很深的我們的政府非常會喊口號喊完口號了以後做得到做不到反正也不是我的事因為我任期早就結束了"},{"start":89.158,"end":115.202,"text":"第二個金融科技的發展我看了這個更感觸我第一次到立法院的時候2018年Fintech金融沙盒立專法就是我們那屆財委會過的結果發展到現在2024年臺灣的Fintech臺灣的Fintech發展最有名的一件事情是什麼部長你知道諸位你知道嗎"},{"start":118.124,"end":144.589,"text":"臺灣的Fintech發展從2018年有沙盒到現在2024年最有名的一件事情是什麼你知道嗎這個每個人想法不一樣沒有關係你就跟大家講你的想法如果說我從金管監理沙盒的角度我覺得這個沙盒條例確實需要做一個調整所以你覺得經過了6年以來得到最好的教訓就是這個條例要調整"},{"start":146.122,"end":172.347,"text":"來我跟主委分享Fintech發展到現在絕對讓臺灣人民最有感的一件事情就是IMB這個詐騙集團在金融科技展上面展覽的事情我再講一次這6年來讓大家最有感的一件事情就是IMB這個詐騙集團竟然在我們的金融創新科技展裡面去招攬客戶繼續詐騙的事情"},{"start":174.602,"end":203.413,"text":"也正是因為這個樣子我要延續著我上一次問的啊金管會針對P2P上一屆的主委說要推指導原則我問他問了半天指導原則是什麼法律性質指導原則有法律效果嗎沒有啊從頭到尾沒有法律效果啊違反了也不能作為處罰的依據甚至不可以作為什麼不可以作為參與人的請求權基礎這個指導原則啊看起來真的不曉得要幹嘛"},{"start":204.428,"end":224.97,"text":"所以之前您第一次的時候我說我一定會給你時間說讓你回去思考你是不是還是要這樣子做那上一次我們見面的時候你說應該要分階段啦還是先讓業者自律啦那自律完了以後我們在下一階段看要怎麼辦嘛我們上次詢答的過程應該到這裡吧是的"},{"start":227.179,"end":256.079,"text":"那請問現在業者自律要拖動業者自律嘛我們從2023年的時候就開始喊說要指導他們成立工會嘛是的現在2024年10月底快結束了啦工會成立起來了嗎跟委員報告一下我們在6月的時候呢因為現在P2P呢他沒有了沒關係你先給大家一個答案再來講理由現在工會成立起來了嗎現在還沒有現在還沒有理由是什麼主要是在於說他們在"},{"start":257.29,"end":265.998,"text":"這些業者分成兩派他兩派想各自成立一個工會但是依據內政部的法律他們不可以成立兩個工會所以內政部出來協調6月協調一次失敗8月再開一次會"},{"start":268.311,"end":269.811,"text":"我老實跟主委講我一點都不在意"},{"start":292.498,"end":301.555,"text":"我在意的事情是說你們說要推自律嘛自律前面有個前提要成立工會嘛所以要成立工會從去年搞到現在搞了一年多"},{"start":302.345,"end":322.571,"text":"這個我有跟內政部跟法務部他們做好協調他們現在政委會請政委趕快出來協調這件事情沒有我現在有點搞不太懂臺灣不是法治國家嗎因為法該怎麼辦就怎麼辦啊怎麼會搞到是由政委出來喬兩派的業者這個不是很怪的事嗎"},{"start":324.032,"end":338.827,"text":"確實這個部分我們正在努力因為這個是內政部主政的內容所以我們現在想趕快其實我們另外一個想法就是說公會是一個問題那另外的話假設我們未來怎麼樣去納管這個在P2P上做融資的活動"},{"start":339.548,"end":365.179,"text":"我們接下來會想說需要多久剛剛你終於講到一句話引起我的注意你說將來要納管P2P嗎什麼時候要開始做因為你好不容易從自律聽要邁向納管因為現在自律主委我跟你交換一下我的觀察自律講了半天以後全部都是空包蛋"},{"start":366.021,"end":382.671,"text":"搞了一年了以後我這樣講好了啦如果今天所謂這兩派的業者連要怎麼成立工會都沒有辦法形成共識的話如果你認為放亂這些業者自律會達到自律的效果嗎"},{"start":384.005,"end":386.348,"text":"確實在這方面我們真的還要請我們各個部會趕快努力但是我覺得"},{"start":401.528,"end":402.309,"text":"我最後講一件事"},{"start":423.274,"end":446.211,"text":"我得到的消息是今年8月的時候開會對你們這種用喬的方式法務部有意見我再說一次你們既然用喬的方式法務部有意見所以法務部根本拒絕派代表去與會法務部拒絕派代表去與會就沒有辦法選出來這個是我了解到的資訊"},{"start":447.711,"end":476.77,"text":"那我就覺得真的是非常可笑的事情啊要仰賴業者自律業者沒辦法自律結果搞到半天什麼搞到半天要出來喬喬看要怎麼處理結果對於喬的這種方式法務部根本不想背書嘛人家連代表都不派去嘛讓你會開不成嘛我看會議記錄是說會後要如實呈報行政院嘛所以是應該呈報了以後行政院現在找一個政委出來喬就對了"},{"start":477.671,"end":477.766,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":478.3,"end":506.079,"text":"我最後因為主席站起來我最後只講一句話啦按照這樣發展的狀況主委你應該深深的可以感受到要求這些業者自律緣木求魚搞了一年多了啦要求業者自律緣木求魚搞了一年多了啦金管會如果還繼續放任這樣下去的話我希望不要再有下一個悲劇我希望不要再有下一個悲劇"},{"start":508.48,"end":508.721,"text":"其實我們請鍾嘉斌委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1095,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時38分）謝謝主席。麻煩請金管會主委。"],["主席：請彭主委。"],["黃委員國昌：主委好。今天看到金管會提出政府推動臺灣成為亞洲資產管理中心，以及要協助金融科技新創產業的專題報告。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["黃委員國昌：本席拜讀完這份報告以後，非常有感觸，為什麼說非常的有感觸？因為我第一次聽到要把臺灣打造成亞洲資產管理中心這個口號，是在2001年陳水扁政府的時候，經過了23年，我們又重新打出這個口號。能實踐，不能實踐？我一向不喜歡唱衰，但我要提醒你，我們上次打出這個口號是23年前，23年後的今天，再度打出這樣子的口號，我覺得對於整個臺灣，不管是金融還是資產管理發展有所了解的專業人士，大家的感慨都很深。我們的政府非常會喊口號，喊完口號，以後做得到做不到，反正也不是我的事，因為我任期早就結束了。","第二個金融科技的發展，我看了這個是更有感觸，2018年我第一次到立法院的時候，FinTech金融沙盒立專法，就是我們那一屆財委會通過的，從2018年有沙盒，到現在2024年，臺灣的FinTech發展最有名的一件事情是什麼？主委知道嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個每個人想法不一樣。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係，你就跟大家講你的想法。"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果從金管監理沙盒的角度，我覺得這個沙盒條例確實需要做一個調整。"],["黃委員國昌：所以，你覺得經過這六年，得到最好的教訓，就是這個條例需要調整？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實不只……"],["黃委員國昌：我跟主委分享FinTech發展到現在，絕對讓臺灣人民最有感的一件事情，就是im.B這個詐騙集團，竟然在我們的金融科技展展覽裡面招攬客戶，繼續詐騙的事情！正因為如此，我要延續上一次問金管會有關P2P的問題，上一屆的主委說要推指導原則，我問了他半天，指導原則是什麼法律性質？指導原則有法律效果嗎？沒有啊！從頭到尾沒有法律效果，違反的也不能作為處罰的依據，甚至不可以作為參與人的請求權基礎，真不曉得這個指導原則要幹嘛。之前第一次問你的時候，我說一定會給你時間回去思考，是不是還是要這樣子做？上一次你說應該要分階段，先讓業者自律，自律了以後，下一階段再看要怎麼辦。我們上次詢答的過程應該到這裡吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["黃委員國昌：為了推動業者自律，我們從2023年就開始喊著要指導他們成立公會，現在2024年10月都快結束了，公會成立了嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告，我們在6月的時候，因為現在P2P，他們……"],["黃委員國昌：沒關係，你先給大家一個答案，再來講理由，現在公會成立起來了嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在還沒有。"],["黃委員國昌：現在還沒有，理由是什麼？"],["彭主任委員金隆：主要是因為這些業者分成兩派，都想各自成立一個公會，但是依據內政部的法律，他們不可以成立兩個公會，所以內政部出來協調，6月協調一次失敗，8月再開一次會也失敗，現在要請政委出面來做協調。金管會一再的push這件事情，希望能夠……"],["黃委員國昌：我們這樣講好了，現在這兩派業者兩邊都是好人；還是一邊比較好，一邊比較不好；狗咬狗一嘴毛，還是兩邊都不好？老實跟主委講，我一點都不在意，我在意的是你們說要推自律，自律的前提就是要成立公會，成立公會這件事情，從去年搞到現在，搞了一年多。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個部分，我跟內政部、法務部他們做了協調，他們會請政委趕快出來協調這件事情。"],["黃委員國昌：我現在有點搞不太懂，臺灣不是法治國家嗎？依法該怎麼辦就怎麼辦，怎麼會搞到由政委出來喬兩派的業者，這不是很怪的事嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，這個部分我們確實也在努力，我們也想趕快。成立公會是一個問題，我們另外一個想法是，未來要怎麼樣去納管這個在P2P上做融資的活動，我們接下來要去想……"],["黃委員國昌：需要多久？你剛剛終於講到一句話引起我的注意，你說將來要納管？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["黃委員國昌：P2P嘛！什麼時候要開始做？"],["彭主任委員金隆：剛剛委員有提到……"],["黃委員國昌：因為好不容易聽到從自律邁向納管，針對自律這個部分，我跟主委交換一下我的觀察，自律講了半天，搞了一年，全部都是空包彈！我這樣講好了，如果今天這兩派業者，連要怎麼成立公會，都沒有辦法形成共識，主委認為放任這些業者自律，會達到自律的效果嗎？連要怎麼成立公會，都可以搞到今天這個樣子，讓公會都沒辦法成立，這種狀況讓他們自律，會有自律的效果嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：確實在這方面，我們還要請各部會趕快努力；如果已經影響到金融消費的安定的話，我們已經開始……"],["黃委員國昌：不是早就影響到金融消費的安定了嗎？所以你納管需要多久？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們會朝向金融消費者保護法第三條的規定來處理這件事情。"],["黃委員國昌：我最後講一件事，我得到的消息是，今年8月開會的時候，法務部對你們這種用「喬」的方式有意見，所以法務部拒絕派代表與會。法務部拒絕派代表與會，就沒有辦法選出來，這是我了解到的資訊，我覺得這真的是非常可笑的事情！要仰賴業者自律，業者沒辦法自律，結果搞了半天，竟然要用喬的方式，喬喬看要怎麼處理，結果法務部對於喬的這個方式根本不想背書，人家連代表都不派去，讓你會開不成。我看會議紀錄上寫著會後要如實呈報行政院，所以應該是呈報了以後，行政院現在找一個政委出來喬就對了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：希望透過跨部會來協調，不是……"],["黃委員國昌：因為主席站起來了，我最後只講一句話，按照這樣的發展狀況，主委應該可以深深的感受到，要求這些業者自律是緣木求魚啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：這是其中方法之一。"],["黃委員國昌：要求業者自律是緣木求魚！都搞了一年多了。金管會如果還繼續放任這樣下去的話，我們希望不要再有下一個悲劇。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們當然也希望不要有任何悲劇……"],["黃委員國昌：要不然等到要檢討責任的時候，大家又開始進行國家足球隊的踢皮球大賽。謝謝。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員，謝謝主委。接著請鍾佳濱委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-4","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","李坤城","賴士葆","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王鴻薇","王世堅","廖先翔","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","葉元之","沈發惠","葛如鈞","賴瑞隆","羅明才","邱志偉","林楚茵"],"page_start":225,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、財政部莊部長翠雲、中央銀行、國家發展委員會、經\n濟部、交通部就「政府推動臺灣成為亞洲資產管理中心之具體作為暨如何協助金融科技及新創產\n業籌資現況與未來發展」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}