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問東問西 問東問西"},{"start":71.55,"end":98.37,"text":"那個報告應該是銀行銀行基於他自己的那種跟央行應該央行不會直接跟客戶或者是那銀行說是央行要問的啊我想如果個案的問題我想那個請委員提供我們資料我們來處理這個案子我覺得你要變成是一個國際的進進出出的一個中心你要自由化所以主委比如說像50萬、100萬"},{"start":101.434,"end":127.185,"text":"究竟你們查的標準是在哪裡?你覺得兩萬要不要查?那要看情況,我想剛剛那個副總裁已經回答過他們有他們對外匯的一些的指導對,所以你們現在情況標準不明的情況之下很多人乾脆錢就不要匯回來啦你本來就放在新加坡的或是香港或是瑞士的"},{"start":128.736,"end":131.539,"text":"才50萬你問了三次嚇死人了那到底要問什麼呢那你們這幾年來你們都說是怕說有一些洗錢的問題那請問主委還有央行也可以回答去年好了你們查國際的洗錢你們查了幾件金額是多少有查到嗎"},{"start":156.041,"end":176.735,"text":"我們金融機構在對洗錢房子是日常的常態性的業務至於說有什麼具體查獲這個步伐我們在過去似乎沒有什麼重大的案件所以當然很奇怪講得正天嘎響結果查了誰沒有啊一個都沒有啊所以你過度的監管變成"},{"start":183.513,"end":205.513,"text":"金融市場不夠自由化那就造成你要打造成一個亞洲的資產管理中心那就越走越遠了比如說現在全世界都還在推動虛擬貨幣還有很多的衍生性的金融商品那我請問一下主委那你們對這個虛擬貨幣"},{"start":209.484,"end":224.179,"text":"這第一檔在臺灣上市有計畫是什麼時候嗎?美國都有上市了啊我們對於虛擬資產的管理啊現階段還是走在洗房登記洗房管理這個區塊那我們大概"},{"start":227.398,"end":229.338,"text":"現在這個虛擬貨幣的使用是不是未來的一個潮流"},{"start":258.101,"end":269.887,"text":"這個有不同樣的說法那你就講川普的說法好了川普當然是支持的他支持那我看他旁邊有很多的很多人都支持他"},{"start":270.765,"end":287.583,"text":"特別很多年輕人都是支持的所以10月5號就建政章了假設川普當選的話你對於虛擬貨幣或是這些虛擬資產的交易所你會不會大幅度的開放甚至多多鼓勵他們"},{"start":288.357,"end":313.447,"text":"其實我們對一個制度一個所謂新市場的開放不會因為單一事件而做一個大幅我們是看整個長遠的趨勢所以我們在規劃的時候當然會納入各種的考量包括未來VASP未來要監理的構面我們現在都已經慢慢都我們已經開始在做因為我們這個草案在很快今年年底明年年初就要拿出來跟對外的溝通、公聽未來估計喔"},{"start":314.227,"end":318.188,"text":"暫時還沒有把這個虛擬資產這一塊納入到我們的整個的總體規劃但並不代表我們未來不會去鼓勵這個事情只是說我覺得我們現在先從傳統金融開始"},{"start":344.213,"end":362.569,"text":"請問就是虛擬貨幣管理的這一塊金管會裡面幾個人在管理這個確實委員講到重點金管會裡面是我們一個組在兼著做確實我們在人員上是非常吃緊現在是可能不到一個科的同仁在處理這件事情一個科的一個科有幾個人不到一個科那個科也不是專門處理這件事"},{"start":363.601,"end":383.761,"text":"那一個科不是專門處理那一個科有多少人一個科應該5到10個人有5個人喔 哇 那麼多一個科5到10 現在是7個人現在是7個人現在的人的配置齁都是大家覺得不可思議的任務啊比如說保險局好了"},{"start":384.653,"end":403.437,"text":"保險局管的是幾兆是50兆吧是不是36兆36兆的資產那請問保險局裡面的編制幾個人現在我們是100多個那現在還有大概應該20幾位的缺對啊所以這個就你要說要打造一個很大的一個中心結果"},{"start":404.434,"end":433.037,"text":"要將軍沒將軍要兵沒兵那怎麼打你總不能全部事情都主委你來幹嘛當然不會我們就以有限的資源盡量做但是我們也沒有我們要爭取更多的資源你剛剛說36兆的規模那你才100多個人那平均一個人要管多少錢好幾千億對當然當然今晚會說的人管的超過100多兆的市場你們要馬兒好又要馬兒不吃草這個是讓大家想差太多了"},{"start":434.876,"end":450.556,"text":"希望人該補的要補齊那另外就是再請一下央行的態度就是對於這個虛擬貨幣這個推動就是未來亞洲的資產管理中心你們是真的是支持還是要假的支持"},{"start":451.701,"end":453.242,"text":"我們希望說這一次不要讓彭教授不要讓彭主委失望兩個金融聯手打造亞洲的資產管理中心"},{"start":479.221,"end":505.275,"text":"是可以期待的好不好大家努力做一下事情不要A做事其他扯後腿剛剛那個幾個委員講阿是黃委員阿21年前都講過阿到現在也是還在講阿我們覺得蠻可惜的啦另外再講一個就是因為時間的關係阿那個主委你有沒有買到周杰倫的票"},{"start":507.441,"end":532.838,"text":"我覺得我應該買不到買不到很多人都打來問說可不可以要一點票我覺得就是到底是什麼地方出了問題有人說是因為財政部財政部麻煩一下財政部看個藝文唱歌表演居然還課娛樂稅所以間接的讓這些黃牛票飆漲"},{"start":536.045,"end":551.271,"text":"市長你慢慢吃我先跟主委再聊一下結果聽說一張票我就不可思議啊報紙是寫說一張票多少30萬這真的還假的啊"},{"start":553.967,"end":570.255,"text":"真的不可思議主委我這樣是想要再把它拉回來如果說這些周杰倫或是幾個大家都很喜歡吳岳天等等他們都表現得那麼好那請問政府要不要鼓勵他們他們可不可以上市"},{"start":571.348,"end":590.926,"text":"就是單一的這個明星當然有人提過像比如說以前也提過我們很多歌星每年發一張片就可以賺幾千萬有沒有辦法把未來現金流折現做個證券化這很多人在國外曾經有聽過這樣的案例不過臺灣我們有一些法律金融資產證券化這可不可以變成是個金融資產這可以再研究不過"},{"start":592.368,"end":617.026,"text":"主委努力一下吧因為每個市場有不同的區隔說不定你以後把周杰倫變成一家證券證券化了以後會鼓勵更多的年輕人這些追星族他想要當明星的各行各業他有不同的一個發展是不是可以研究一下當然我們也期待有這麼一個多元化的那再繞回來就是"},{"start":618.311,"end":638.877,"text":"全臺灣大概說80萬人要搶15萬張的票搶不到另外一個就是像證券方面你管得到新宇航空啊他的證券IPOL事故就大家搶也搶不到啊是不是在這個成銷制度上面有什麼需要改善的空間"},{"start":640.792,"end":668.852,"text":"對 如果說如果說剛剛委員提到這案例我會請那個交易所跟那個我們政局來針對這個個案來看看有沒有任何制度需要做調整的地方那你說比如說SPO的部分跟這個買票一樣有沒有黃牛出現這我不敢那個那個保證因為這我確實沒有研究但是我覺得任何有利可圖的地方都有可能我們希望說你"},{"start":669.69,"end":692.479,"text":"股票的SPO就是股票在市股公開市股的這個方面啊你要讓所有開戶者現在開戶有多少一千多萬人嗎有吧有一千多萬平均讓這些人可以優先來受益而不是少數的人搶到那個票搶到那個股票"},{"start":693.541,"end":708.895,"text":"是不是可以請主委再研究一下我請齊局來針對委員的建議做分析最後次長也來了李次長是不是因為娛樂稅沒有廢除啊間接造成黃牛票的飆漲"},{"start":710.058,"end":724.57,"text":"委員我覺得應該不是因為我們像那些藝文事業的話像以周杰倫這個演唱會的話其實應該可以使用那個促進文化藝術發展促進文化藝術獎助條例裡面他應該有一個可以減半課徵的優惠"},{"start":725.871,"end":733.836,"text":"所以他在大巨蛋辦這一場演出所有去參觀的消費者是不用繳交娛樂稅的"},{"start":756.151,"end":774.811,"text":"黃牛票猖獗 造成大家買不到票本席在這裡 像我們電影票就沒有黃牛啊就是因為 其實是因為我覺得要阻擋黃牛這件事情文創法裡面已經有相關規範了他都已經有明確規範了我跟你打個賭啊 賭一碗牛肉麵"},{"start":776.892,"end":798.056,"text":"你如果背除娛樂稅的話保證他也買不到票周杰倫票大家應該就有比較有機會可以買到他也還是買不到票真的因為你這樣課他都不敢推只有5場而已啊你如果沒有這個制約的話他也許他可以辦10場辦20場啊你知道為什麼嗎你知道為什麼嗎因為你要課稅的話"},{"start":804.307,"end":821.59,"text":"主辦單位都怕你會查你資珠幣計每張票你都查查到最後他也不敢賺賣太多票因為你會倒算去課他的稅那一場你們可以課多少稅主辦單位也會害怕我辦了一場就賺了好幾億我們明天怎麼申報"},{"start":829.738,"end":856.206,"text":"可是委員其實我們每一場的表演民眾會去搶票都是因為演員很好啊表演很精彩啊如果是不好看的就沒有人要搶了娛樂稅也沒有用我希望你們也想一下因為沒有買到票了現在很歐啊沒有我們是希望我們創法的那個阻擋那個黃牛的這個機制能夠充分發揮他的機制這樣子應該就可以遏止黃牛的娛樂稅還是要廢除了謝謝"},{"start":860.094,"end":861.055,"text":"謝謝羅明財委員謝謝次長我們拭目以待請邱志偉委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1371,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（13時23分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員。主席，可不可以請彭主委……"],["主席：彭主委。"],["羅委員明才：央行嚴副總裁……"],["主席：嚴副總裁。"],["羅委員明才：還有國發會。"],["主席：國發會詹副主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：各位首長好。怎麼樣把臺灣推動成為亞洲資產管理中心，其實我對主委大概是寄予厚望，你認真做，但是重點是其他的單位不要扯後腿。"],["彭主任委員金隆：不會，他們……"],["羅委員明才：比如央行，我請問一下嚴副總裁，央行會不會扯後腿？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我們一開始就完全支持這個案子的推動。"],["羅委員明才：現在的問題是這樣，有一些臺商回來，包括才匯50萬而已，你就把人家叫去問3次，現在這個情況還有出現嗎？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我不曉得委員講的是哪一個特殊的案例。"],["羅委員明才：就是一個臺商的小朋友去英國念書，他匯錢出去，央行就叫了3次，他說孩子去念書就匯錢，你們問他孩子叫什麼、問東問西、問東問西，可不可以拜託啊！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，那個應該是銀行基於他自己的那種……央行不會直接跟客戶或者是……"],["羅委員明才：銀行說是央行要問的啊。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我想如果是個案的問題，請委員提供我們資料，我們來處理這個案子。"],["羅委員明才：好。我是覺得要變成是一個國際進進出出的中心，你要自由化，所以主委，比如像50萬、100萬，究竟你們查的標準是在哪裡？你覺得2萬要不要查？"],["彭主任委員金隆：那要看情況，我想剛剛副總裁已經回答過，他們有他們對外匯的職掌。"],["羅委員明才：對，所以你們現在標準不明的情況之下，很多人乾脆錢就不要匯回來了。本來把錢放在新加坡、香港或者瑞士的，才匯50萬，你問了3次，嚇死人了。到底要問什麼呢？這幾年來你們都說是怕有一些洗錢的問題，請問主委，還有央行也可以回答，去年好了，你們查國際的洗錢查了幾件？金額是多少？有查到嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們金融機構在對洗錢防制是日常的常態性業務，至於有什麼具體查獲不法，我們在過去似乎沒有什麼重大的案件。"],["羅委員明才：對啊，所以大家很奇怪，講得震天價響，結果查了誰？沒有啊，一個都沒有啊。所以你過度的監管，變成金融市場不夠自由化，那就造成原本要打造成一個亞洲的資產管理中心，結果卻越走越遠。比如現在全世界都還在推動虛擬貨幣，還有很多衍生性的金融商品，我請問一下主委，你們對虛擬貨幣的第一檔在臺灣上市，有計劃是什麼時候嗎？美國都有上市了啊。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們對於虛擬資產的管理，現階段還是走在洗防登記、洗防管理這個區塊，接下來如果明年6月然後通過專法，明年如果專法順利地通過的話，對於虛擬資產這個行業，我們就會有一個正式對這個產業監管的法律政策出來，我們會正式對這個東西做一個系統性、而且類似像各位看到對金融機構的管理。"],["羅委員明才：現在虛擬貨幣的使用是不是未來的潮流？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個有不同樣的說法，但是確實……"],["羅委員明才：好，那你就講川普的說法好了。"],["彭主任委員金隆：川普當然是支持的。"],["羅委員明才：他支持，我看他旁邊有很多人都支持他，特別很多年輕人都是支持的，所以11月5日就見真章了。假設川普當選的話，你對於虛擬貨幣或是虛擬資產的交易所會不會大幅度地開放，甚至多多鼓勵他們？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實我們對一個制度、所謂新市場的開放，不會因為單一事件而做一個大幅……我們是看整個長遠的趨勢，所以我們在規劃的時候，當然會納入各種的考量，包括VASP未來要監理的部分，我們現在都已經慢慢開始在做，我們的草案很快在今年年底、明年年初就要拿出來，進行對外的溝通、公聽。"],["羅委員明才：未來估計虛擬資產的交易市場規模會有多大？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個就看怎麼定義，就是我們現在虛擬資產裡面的……"],["羅委員明才：就是你用亞洲資產管理中心未來發展的願景來定義。"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，我們現在16項計畫裡面暫時還沒有把虛擬資產這一塊納入到整個的總體規劃，但並不代表我們未來不會去鼓勵這個事情，只是我覺得我們現在先從傳統金融開始。"],["羅委員明才：好，請問虛擬貨幣管理這一塊，金管會裡面有幾個人在管理？"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員講到重點，金管會裡面是我們一個組在兼著做，確實我們在人員上是非常吃緊，現在可能不到一個科的同仁在處理這件事情。"],["羅委員明才：一個科，一個科有幾個人？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不到一個科，那個科也不是專門處理這件事。"],["羅委員明才：一個科不是專門處理，一個科有多少人？"],["彭主任委員金隆：一個科應該5到10個人。"],["羅委員明才：有5個人，那麼多！"],["彭主任委員金隆：一個科5到10人，現在是7個人。"],["羅委員明才：主委，你們現在的人員配置都讓大家覺得是不可思議的任務，譬如，保險局好了，保險局管的是幾兆？是50兆，是不是？"],["彭主任委員金隆：36兆。"],["羅委員明才：36兆的資產，請問保險局裡面的編制幾個人？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在是一百多個，還有大概二十幾位的缺額。"],["羅委員明才：所以你說要打造一個很大的中心，結果要將軍沒將軍、要兵沒兵，要怎麼打？總不能全部的事情都主委你來做吧！"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然不會，我們就以有限的資源儘量做，但是我們要爭取更多的資源。"],["羅委員明才：你剛剛說36兆的規模，才一百多個人，平均一個人要管多少錢？好幾千億耶！"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然金管會所有人管的超過一百多兆的資產。"],["羅委員明才：你們要馬兒好，又要馬兒不吃草，這個讓大家覺得差太多了，希望該補的人要補齊。另外，再請教央行的態度，對於虛擬貨幣的推動、未來的亞洲資產管理中心，你們是真的支持，還是假的支持？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：不管是楊總裁或者是我們的報告都已經很明確講，過去在推動財富管理的時候，我們也配合金管會做了很大的調整，未來發展亞洲財富金融中心的時候，我想我們也會持同樣的態度。"],["羅委員明才：我們希望這一次不要讓彭教授、彭主委失望，兩個金融聯手打造亞洲資產管理中心是可以期待的，好不好？大家努力做一下事情，不要A在做事的時候，其他扯後腿，剛剛幾個委員也講，黃委員21年前就講過，到現在也是還在講，我們覺得滿可惜的。另外，因為時間的關係，主委，你有沒有買到周杰倫的票？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我覺得我應該買不到。"],["羅委員明才：很多人都打來問可不可以要一點票，到底是什麼地方出了問題？有人說是因為財政部。財政部麻煩一下。"],["主席：請財政部次長。"],["羅委員明才：有人說看藝文唱歌表演居然還要課娛樂稅，所以就間接地讓這些黃牛票飆漲，我覺得不可思議，報紙上寫一張票要30萬，這是真的還假的？"],["彭主任委員金隆：真的不可思議。"],["羅委員明才：主委，我現在想要再把它拉回來、繞回來，如果周杰倫或者大家都很喜歡的五月天等等，他們都表現得那麼好，請問政府要不要鼓勵他們，他們可不可以上市？就是單一的明星……"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然有人提過，比如，以前也提過我們很多歌星每年發一張片就可以賺幾千萬，有沒有辦法把未來的現金流折現作為證券化，很多人在國外曾經有聽過這樣的案例，不過依據臺灣的法律，如金融資產證券化，這可不可以變成是一個金融資產要再研究。不過理論上來說……"],["羅委員明才：主委，努力一下吧！因為每個市場有不同的區隔，說不定你以後把周杰倫變成一家證券，證券化以後會鼓勵更多的年輕人，這些追星族或想要當明星的各行各業有不同的發展，是不是可以研究一下？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然我們也期待有這麼一個多元化的方向。"],["羅委員明才：我們再繞回來，全臺灣大概80萬人要搶15萬張票搶不到，另外，證券方面你管得到，星宇航空的證券IPO要釋股，結果大家搶也搶不到，在承銷制度上面是不是有什麼需要改善的空間？"],["彭主任委員金隆：剛剛委員提到的這個案例，我會請交易所和證期局針對這個個案來看看有沒有任何制度需要做調整的地方。"],["羅委員明才：比如，SPO的部分跟買票一樣有沒有黃牛出現？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個我不敢保證，因為我確實沒有研究，但是我覺得任何有利可圖的地方都有可能有這樣的現象。"],["羅委員明才：我們希望股票SPO，就是股票在公開釋股方面，你要讓所有的開戶者，現在開戶的有多少？一千多萬人嗎？平均讓這些人可以優先受益，而不是少數的人搶到那個股票，是不是可以請主委再研究一下？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我請證期局針對委員的建議做詳細分析。"],["羅委員明才：謝謝。最後，李次長，是不是因為娛樂稅沒有廢除，間接造成黃牛票的飆漲？"],["李次長慶華：委員，我覺得應該不是。"],["羅委員明才：真的嗎？"],["李次長慶華：因為那些藝文事業，像周杰倫演唱會，其實應該可以適用文化藝術獎助及促進條例裡面有一個可以減半課徵的優惠，所以應該不是娛樂稅的問題。"],["羅委員明才：所以他在大巨蛋辦這一場演出，所有去參觀的消費者是不用繳交娛樂稅的嗎？"],["李次長慶華：他是減半課稅，臺北市政府會依照那個條例讓他減半課稅。"],["羅委員明才：減半還是要課稅啊！"],["李次長慶華：但是那個金額真的很微小，剛才委員講的黃牛問題，其實在文化創意產業發展法裡面已經有相關的規範，對於這些演唱會都可以懲罰的。"],["羅委員明才：現在有人說是因為你們一直要課娛樂稅，造成黃牛票猖獗，造成大家買不到票。"],["李次長慶華：委員這樣講不公平啦！"],["羅委員明才：本席在這裡跟你……"],["李次長慶華：像電影票就沒有黃牛。"],["羅委員明才：因為現在看電影的少。"],["李次長慶華：我覺得要阻擋黃牛這件事情，文創法裡面已經有相關規範了，都已經有明確規範了。"],["羅委員明才：次長，我跟你打個賭，賭一碗牛肉麵，你如果廢除娛樂稅的話，保證……"],["李次長慶華：他也買不到票。"],["羅委員明才：保證周杰倫的票大家應該就比較有機會可以買到。"],["李次長慶華：他也還是買不到票。"],["羅委員明才：真的，因為你這樣課，他都不敢推，只有5場而已，如果沒有這個制約的話，也許他可以辦10場、辦20場，你知道為什麼嗎？因為你要課稅的話，主辦單位都怕你會查，錙銖必較，每一張票你都查。"],["李次長慶華：不會！因為他們都是自動報繳的。"],["羅委員明才：他也不敢賣太多票，因為你會倒算去課他的稅，一場你們可以課多少稅？"],["李次長慶華：這個我不太清楚，因為是臺北市在課徵的。"],["羅委員明才：主辦單位也會害怕，我辦了一場就賺了好幾億，明天怎麼申報啊！"],["李次長慶華：可是委員，其實每一場表演民眾會去搶票都是因為演員很好、表演很精彩，如果是不好看的就沒有人要搶，課娛樂稅也沒有用，也是一樣。"],["羅委員明才：我希望你們也想一下，因為沒有買到票的現在很嘔。"],["李次長慶華：我們希望文創法阻擋黃牛的機制能夠充分發揮作用，這樣子應該就可以遏止黃牛。"],["羅委員明才：娛樂稅還是要廢除，謝謝。"],["李次長慶華：謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：謝謝羅明才委員、謝謝次長，我們拭目以待。","請邱志偉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-4","speakers":["陳玉珍","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","李坤城","賴士葆","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王鴻薇","王世堅","廖先翔","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","葉元之","沈發惠","葛如鈞","賴瑞隆","羅明才","邱志偉","林楚茵"],"page_start":225,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、財政部莊部長翠雲、中央銀行、國家發展委員會、經\n濟部、交通部就「政府推動臺灣成為亞洲資產管理中心之具體作為暨如何協助金融科技及新創產\n業籌資現況與未來發展」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}