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蘇清泉 蘇清泉"},{"start":216.439,"end":233.792,"text":"委員您講的像這個營建業的部分我跟您報告去年開了一萬兩千人嘛到現在實際進來的只有七八千人實際進來喔那後來我們有去跟營建署檢討是為什麼"},{"start":234.915,"end":253.669,"text":"那原來就是說因為當時在訂那一個招聘許可的時候有一個一年的期限那營建署也把那個一年的期限比同製造業這樣來訂所以那就會導致他的空缺就懸在那裡一直不用所以其實"},{"start":254.77,"end":271.183,"text":"在營建院的移工還有七八千人可以補進來都還沒補這個就是您講的剛才就是營建工地的問題其實這部分也是一個大問題所以我們現在請營建署要趕快把那個等待期縮短趕快禁用讓他們進來這樣子所以勞動彈性化"},{"start":275.667,"end":293.561,"text":"職業技能深化跟轉弦這個是很重要那你們有在在輔導嗎?譬如說你們的執訊所有在加空調給他們給他們科技及證照這樣他們也能修就比較多有有有這有在做吧?"},{"start":294.301,"end":319.576,"text":"有就是委員像冷凍空調確實很缺昨天服務業的這個工會也在講那麼可是就是說我們像中高齡跟婦女也有在關於他的部分工時我們都還有獎勵的還有植物再設計也都有獎勵其實中高齡跟婦女在這部分的那一個績效是不錯的就是我們的獎勵措施落實的績效可是比較不好的大概就是青年這一塊對是"},{"start":321.417,"end":340.958,"text":"那第二個就是像護理人力他現在一年進入職場差不多4到5千人但是這個都是20到24歲啦專武專畢業跟大學畢業然後考上進入職場一年差不多4千到5千很高興啦但對不起30到35歲"},{"start":343.343,"end":371.605,"text":"每年離職的有4000到5000所以剛才剛才just make剛才康康啦那衛福部發一個豪語說我們到2030年要補7萬人8萬人的護理我看那是我不說的啦胡說八道啊也沒有什麼配套然後啦配套又很低那人家搞不清現在的護理人員為什麼不進入職場"},{"start":374.171,"end":386.965,"text":"蘇清泉的副理事在病房都很高了捏那待ICU的要不要更高啦像我們的ICU的副理事一年可以拿到90萬到100萬以上啦"},{"start":390.246,"end":400.333,"text":"不過那是醫院委員的經營理念是算待員工所以這個護理的職很薄你沒在插?不是沒在插我那個醫院副主已經開放讓喬外森可以做就是喬外森可以來當副主他們也可以接受訓練當照護員"},{"start":416.983,"end":431.801,"text":"趙福遠還不行也可以也可以我們一般要請到那個副總我們都希望他有趙福遠有有有可以有邵俊還有柯奇現在考試是比試還有技能考都考現在也蠻嚴格的"},{"start":433.263,"end":460.521,"text":"所以我其實建議可以跟計職或護理學校這個應該就是建議業者就是我們醫院的經營者啦是不是可以跟護理學校這些計職學校大家把這個就綁起來包括我們本土的或是橋外生中大型醫院都到學校去找人從比如說專科就從專二專三就開始綁了是是是是一個補他一萬塊的生活津貼對對對然後一年12萬然後"},{"start":462.962,"end":488.903,"text":"防三年將來要服務三年服務三年是心碎交給喔還是跟他拔起的沙泥阿捏所以有點像公會生那種感覺半公會生所以醫療院所可以做的他們都很努力在做是我們也希望跟教育部來擴大這方面的那你勞動部這邊好像也沒什麼誘因阿你應該砸錢阿你錢那麼多你基金那麼多"},{"start":491.212,"end":508.298,"text":"醫療院所補一份,你給他補一份嘛,要不要?你是指那一個比如說像這個橋外生,比如說他們來本地生的,或者是橋外生的。有點像棄作,種田的棄作,這個叫棄業嘛。我們醫療院所借一萬,你也一萬給他。"},{"start":511.127,"end":538.279,"text":"其實我們有一個雙軌計畫本來就是這個可以考慮啦這個真的可以考慮我們來研究好不好你綁不住啊然後30到35歲的你要離職的你也要用心啊這為什麼會離職我是不是要結婚之後要顧孩子啦衝生啦一直不來我跟你講現在的醫療是日新夜異我們在醫院上班的護理人員如果請個一年假請個半年請個一年甚至是要兩年兩年之後他要回來他會怕捏"},{"start":540.137,"end":546.924,"text":"會怕捏 因為他已經改了又改 改了幾個版本了 健保署什麼都沒辦法做 每天就在那裏不當不曬 現在來電腦看不到了 跟不上了 他要恐慌所以他要回來病房照顧病人在ICU 那更不用講了 他嚇壞了 所以這個一定要搞到這樣嗎 我就講健保署"},{"start":564.777,"end":583.54,"text":"幾乎每一季都在有新的新的怪招又來了所以醫療院所疲於奔命那這些護理人員最好是罐頭給他點一點罐頭的資訊讓他點是最好不然說你要叫他寫要叫他照顧病人要就是家屬的柔韌沒人打得掉"},{"start":584.525,"end":604.334,"text":"所以這個你要跟衛生部這邊好好來考量二度就業的婦女我們最care二度就業為什麼進不來為什麼不敢來是不是有歧視或者是你的職場對他不友善這個都很重要的事情所以你來看深入的"},{"start":605.054,"end":605.074,"text":"謝謝委員 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":487,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（10時8分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，你們9月份在屏東里港辦了一個徵才活動，廠商提供了280個工作機會，部長還有署長，到最後媒合的成功率是多少？"],["何部長佩珊：我請署長回答，好不好？"],["蔡署長孟良：不好意思，委員，這個我可能要再進一步了解。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，因為我看有大田、科隆、喬本生醫等等企業，他們提出來兩百多個職缺，但是我看薪水都很低，差不多都是三萬上下，像大江生醫也有提，我想了解結果到底有沒有成功。"],["何部長佩珊：是，我們趕快來確認這一個媒合數字，提供給委員。"],["蘇委員清泉：因為這個很重要，不然你說職缺那麼多，然後還有人找不到工作，是自己的心態的問題、本位的問題還是真的工作不適合他。"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我覺得其實就像您看到的，多半薪資都偏低，這個就是大問題啦，我們國人就是希望有合理薪資。"],["蘇委員清泉：那現在合理薪資到底是多少？"],["何部長佩珊：對，這就是雙方之間的落差，這部分我覺得落差一直挺大的，這個也是當今缺工的主要原因。"],["蘇委員清泉：我們原住民的朋友在山上，每天都是由一個工頭開著廂型車，把他的好朋友都載到都會區，有的是做模板的，有的是綁鋼筋的，他們一天都可以拿到兩千六，比較生疏的是兩千二，如果技術成熟的三千塊都有。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：我們要請模板工一天兩千八都找不到人，他們都跑去台積電，在高鐵旁邊的台積電，台積電一天是四千五。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：但是他們很嚴格，都是要戴安全帶，因為它不容許出什麼意外。"],["何部長佩珊：是，職安意外。"],["蘇委員清泉：變成它在挑工啦，民間如果要找模板工、鋼筋工，就要等他們放假。所以我是覺得，缺人缺到泥水工也缺，模板工、綁鋼筋的也缺，水電工更缺。水電的一個月的話，像我們法人這邊請的，那種有證照的薪水都很高、很高啊！所以缺工缺成這個樣子，你們到底要怎麼解決？我看你都沒解決啊！兩手一攤。"],["何部長佩珊：您講的像營建業部分，我跟您報告，去年開出了一萬兩千人，到現在實際進來的只有七、八千人，實際進來的喔！後來我們有跟營建署檢討是為什麼，就是因為當時在訂那個招聘許可的時候，有一個1年的期限，營建署也把那1年的期限比同製造業這樣來訂定，就會導致空缺懸在那裡一直不用。其實在營建業的移工還有七、八千人可以補進來，都還沒補。您剛才講的就是營建工地的問題，其實這部分也是一個大問題，所以我們現在請營建署要趕快把等待期縮短、趕快進用，讓他們進來。"],["蘇委員清泉：勞動彈性化、職業技能深化及轉型，這個很重要，你們有在輔導嗎？譬如職訓所有在……"],["何部長佩珊：有。"],["蘇委員清泉：教空調，讓他們考乙級證照，這樣他們也能夠有比較多的收入。"],["何部長佩珊：有。"],["蘇委員清泉：這有在做吧？"],["何部長佩珊：有。"],["蘇委員清泉：有喔？"],["何部長佩珊：像冷凍空調確實很缺，昨天服務業的公會也在講。可是像中高齡和婦女，關於他們的部分工時我們都還有獎勵，還有職務再設計也都有獎勵。其實對於中高齡和婦女的績效是不錯的，就是我們的獎勵措施落實的績效，可是比較不好的大概就是青年這一塊。"],["蘇委員清泉：第二個，像護理人力，現在一年進入職場的差不多四到五千人，但都是20到24歲。五專畢業和大學畢業，考上後進入職場，一年差不多是四千到五千。很高興！但對不起，30到35歲每年離職的有四千到五千，所以剛好都空了。衛福部發一句豪語說，我們到2030年要補7萬人、8萬的護理人力，依我看那是胡亂說的、胡說八道！也沒有什麼配套。然後配套的誘因又很低，讓人家搞不清，現在的護理人員為什麼不進入職場？不進入職場是有他的原因的！"],["何部長佩珊：是……"],["蘇委員清泉：不是說你給他的待遇高就好，護理師在病房的都很高，待ICU的更高，像我們ICU的護理師一年可以拿到90萬到100萬以上。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：是很高的。"],["何部長佩珊：不過那是因為委員的……"],["蘇委員清泉：沒有，這是……"],["何部長佩珊：經營理念是善待員工。"],["蘇委員清泉：這是行情。所以護理的這部分，你們沒在管？"],["何部長佩珊：不是沒在管……"],["蘇委員清泉：你們沒法管？"],["何部長佩珊：醫院護佐已經開放讓僑外生可以做。"],["蘇委員清泉：就是僑外生可以來當護佐？"],["何部長佩珊：中階，對。"],["蘇委員清泉：那他們也可以接受訓練當照服員？"],["何部長佩珊：照服員……"],["蘇委員清泉：還不行？"],["何部長佩珊：也可以。"],["蘇委員清泉：可以嘛！一般要請到護佐，我們都希望他有照服員的證照。"],["何部長佩珊：可以。"],["蘇委員清泉：有受訓，有考試，現在考試是筆試、技能考都要。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：現在也滿嚴格的，所以……"],["何部長佩珊：其實建議可以跟技職或護理學校，建議業者，就是我們醫院的經營者，是不是可以跟護理學校這些技職學校，大家把這一個就綁起來，包括我們本土的或是僑外生。"],["蘇委員清泉：現在中大型醫院都到學校去……"],["何部長佩珊：找人。"],["蘇委員清泉：比如專科從專二、專三就開始綁了。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：一個月補他1萬塊的生活津貼。"],["何部長佩珊：對，是。"],["蘇委員清泉：差不多一年12萬。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：然後綁3年，將來要服務3年。服務3年薪水很低，而且只綁3年。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：有點像公費生那種感覺。"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：半公費生。所以醫療院所可以做的，他們都很努力在做……"],["何部長佩珊：是，我們也希望跟教育部來擴大這方面的進用。"],["蘇委員清泉：勞動部這邊好像也沒什麼誘因，你應該砸錢啊！你錢那麼多，你基金那麼多……"],["何部長佩珊：其實衛福部在這方面的……"],["蘇委員清泉：你們也給他補1萬嘛！要不要？"],["何部長佩珊：您是指比如僑外……比如他們來……"],["蘇委員清泉：本地生。本地生或者是僑外生的，有點像契作、種田的契作，那個叫契約。我們醫療院所這裡1萬，你們也給他1萬。"],["何部長佩珊：其實我們有一個雙軌計畫本來就……"],["蘇委員清泉：這個可以考慮。"],["何部長佩珊：好……"],["蘇委員清泉：這個真的可以考慮，不然的話……"],["何部長佩珊：我們來研究，好不好？"],["蘇委員清泉：你綁不住啊！這樣……"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：30到35歲要離職的，你也要用心。為什麼會離職？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：是不是結婚之後要顧小孩還是做什麼，他就不要……"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：我跟你講，現在的醫療日新月異，我們在醫院上班的護理人員如果育嬰假請個半年、1年，甚至請到2年，2年之後要回來他會怕，會怕耶！因為已經改了又改，改了幾個版本哪！健保署什麼都沒在做，每天都在那邊搞東搞西、搞那些，現在他回來後電腦的東西看不懂、跟不上了，他會恐慌。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以他要回來病房照顧病人……那更不用講，他嚇壞了。這個一定要搞到這樣嗎？我就講健保署，幾乎每一季都有新的怪招，所以醫療院所疲於奔命。這些護理人員，最好是罐頭資訊讓他點一點最好……"],["何部長佩珊：是……"],["蘇委員清泉：不然的話，你既要叫他學，又要叫他照顧病人，不然就是家屬的蹂躪，沒人待得住！所以你要跟衛福部好好地考量。"],["何部長佩珊：好，對。我們來……"],["蘇委員清泉：二度就業婦女，我們最care。二度就業的為什麼進不來、為什麼不敢來？是不是有歧視，或者是職場對他不友善？"],["何部長佩珊：是……"],["蘇委員清泉：這個都是很重要的事情。"],["何部長佩珊：是，好。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以你們要更深入一點，不要只做皮毛，做皮毛沒用！"],["何部長佩珊：是，當然。"],["蘇委員清泉：像我剛才說的，找幾個工作在那邊媒合，那個是很low、幼稚園的事情。你們要深入到的是，我們現在已經到這種程度、國家已經發展到程度，要看看每一個職場他們真的碰到細微的問題是什麼。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：不然的話你解決不了事情。"],["何部長佩珊：是，好。"],["蘇委員清泉：這個都很重要，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝委員。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蘇清泉委員。等一下在鄭正鈐委員發言完畢之後，休息10分鐘。","我們請王正旭委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-6","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","王育敏","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","王正旭","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林楚茵","陳亭妃","吳宗憲","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","廖偉翔","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林淑芬","羅廷瑋","李柏毅","劉建國","楊曜","陳瑩","吳春城","涂權吉"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2024-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1139201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"請勞動部部長就「我國全時職位缺工概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139201_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}