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留下來的條件這個就是最主要的問題了"},{"start":285.818,"end":307.269,"text":"對那麼所以我開了也要看我們雇主這邊的配合啦對這樣才有辦法有效的去吸引這一個海橋外生進來這樣是您提到重點我在比較限縮來講因為不管是客運駕駛或者是說相關的大貨車的一個駕駛都應該要有相關的這個"},{"start":308.99,"end":325.071,"text":"的一個提升嗎?包括說的當然會覺得是說客運司機應該要取得駕照員能力業者提供薪資應該高於五萬塊以上然後甚至倉儲隨車助理要求要取得起重機駕照的執照等等嘛對不對那這一些的要求勒?"},{"start":326.305,"end":326.325,"text":"好﹗"},{"start":354.312,"end":382.9,"text":"本期這邊還是會再一次來要求啦就說相關勞動部我還是一樣回過頭來就說其實你今天講說缺工數計6.6萬是這說實在話這真的是跟我們現在行業大家的普遍的感覺這是有落差如果說你講是說我們台灣現在700萬的勞動人口結果只有缺工6.6萬那平均不到1%欸你等於是我們現在缺工不到1%但是你真的問各行各業真的是這樣子嗎"},{"start":383.96,"end":402.989,"text":"我說實在話大家每一個委員都已經聽得到每一個行業真的都是找不到工作那所以如果說沒有真的面對問題來解決問題的話我覺得用這種美化的數字確實感覺勞動部還是跟我們一般的民眾生活是不同的一個平清時空"},{"start":405.238,"end":414.267,"text":"6.6萬其實基本上是也是一個研究的數字你已經解釋過了你是用6個月但實際上現在的就業環境就不是這麼回事嘛好不好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":652,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（10時47分）主席謝謝，麻煩請何部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。部長，今天討論全時職位缺工的狀況，臺灣這兩年缺工的狀況各行各業確實都有感受到，但是我看到勞動部今天的報告提到缺工數只有6萬6,000。"],["何部長佩珊：這是我們自己部內的調查。"],["洪委員孟楷：會不會太美化數字了？因為感覺各行各業大家都哀鴻遍野找不到人，但是你卻講只有6萬6,000。目前全臺灣勞動人口有多少？"],["何部長佩珊：一千多萬。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有那麼多吧！勞動人口耶？"],["何部長佩珊：八百多萬。"],["洪委員孟楷：就你的缺工原因分析，到2070年我國工作年齡人口只剩696萬，平均少了18萬人，換言之，這樣子的意思就是現在的勞動人口差不多七百多萬，是不是？"],["何部長佩珊：七百多、八百。"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊！我現在要講的是，既然召委會安排這個專案討論，我們的缺工到底實質的狀況是多少？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我跟你報告，主要是我們詢問的定義是過去六個月這個職位一直空著、真的找不到人，主要是定義不一樣，所以它得出來的數字也會不一樣。至於委員詢問的問題……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以勞動部現在掌握的臺灣缺工人數是30萬吧！是不是？"],["何部長佩珊：這是我自己的調查，到7月底精確的數字，六個月找不到人是6.6萬。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們需要的人數到底有多少？因為一定是先有缺口，先瞭解原因，我們才能想方設法解決。"],["何部長佩珊：我們部內的調查就是6.6萬的缺口。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以會不會太美化數字？"],["何部長佩珊：這不是美化數字，6.6萬也不少了，也是滿大的，也是滿龐大的。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是部長，如果連一開始我們都沒有辦法推進的話，我很難跟你實質討論。實際上召委會排這個案件我覺得很好，我們都關心，我們現在只是想要找出什麼樣問題來解決。你今天給我們的部分除了媒合之前都在做以外，我覺得看到比較創新的地方是可能引進外籍移工的部分會更加鬆綁、更加快速。但是更加鬆綁、更加快速，到底到最後要引進多少移工，以及這些移工是不是真的能夠解決我們國內現在的缺工問題，這才是關鍵。所以你預計現在除了服務業以外，主管機關送案可能都會放寬行業別使用移工，甚至包括我之前在交通委員會有詢問過，連公車駕駛、大貨車駕駛可能都會開放，是不是？"],["何部長佩珊：我們現在是先開放僑外生中階人力的部分給公車司機。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們預計可能會開放多少僑外生？"],["何部長佩珊：僑外生其實沒有人數的限制，只要他願意來，我們都會歡迎，他是人才的概念了。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以預計這樣子開放之後會補足多少的缺工人力？"],["何部長佩珊：你是指公車嗎？"],["洪委員孟楷：公車或是你們現在來做一個分配。之前我們也講過，來到臺灣的僑外生有多少能夠鬆綁，現在公車業者的人力不足、駕駛人力的不足，其實某種程度上還不是真的缺工的問題，因為臺灣有大貨車跟大客車駕照的人數比現在實際服務的人數多，很多人有這個駕照，但他不願意投入這個行業。"],["何部長佩珊：因為勞動條件辛苦。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以今天即便是開放僑外生，可能開放了多少人，也不一定能夠投入這樣的行業。"],["何部長佩珊：是，沒錯，可是……"],["洪委員孟楷：接下來對於其他業別，你們還要做所謂的移工開放，我們想要問：到底這是不是真的能夠解決我們現在國內缺工的問題？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我先跟您報告關於您剛才詢問的僑外生的部分會有多少空間，現在留在臺灣讀書的僑外生一年有1萬3,000人，大概普遍留下來去年是7,000，那麼我們現在把配額全部打開，希望1萬3,000人都能留下來，可是這個就是我們的業者要去創造條件，創造一個吸引他們留下來的條件，這個就是最主要的問題了。所以我開了，也要看雇主這邊的配合啦！這樣才有辦法有效地去吸引僑外生進來。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，您提到重點，我再比較限縮來講，因為不管是客運駕駛或者是相關大貨車駕駛，都應該要有相關待遇的提升，包括當然客運司機應該要取得駕照、語言能力，業者提供薪資應該高於5萬塊以上，然後甚至倉儲、隨車助理要求要取得起重機駕照等執照等等嘛！對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：那這一些的要求咧？"],["何部長佩珊：有，都有，為什麼我們要開僑外生就是這個原因，因為這些都是要證照的，大概僑外生有語文能力，而且對臺灣已經有一定程度的熟悉，包括認路，所以這些都是需要一些專業技術能力的。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以預計什麼時候會開放僑外生人力？"],["何部長佩珊：年底前就會開。"],["洪委員孟楷：年底前已經確定了？"],["何部長佩珊：是，已經確定了，這政策是確定的，只是法規作業要到年底完成，年底就會開了。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，本席這邊還是會再一次要求啦！回過頭來，就是其實你今天講缺工數計6.6萬，說實在話，這真的是跟我們現在行業大家普遍的感覺有落差，如果你講的是我們臺灣現在700萬的勞動人口，結果只有缺工6.6萬，那平均不到1%耶！等於是我們現在缺工不到1%，但是你問各行各業真的是這樣子嗎？我說實在話，每一個委員都已經聽得到每一個行業真的都是找不到工作，所以如果沒有真的面對問題來解決問題的話，我覺得用這種美化的數字確實感覺勞動部還是跟一般民眾生活在不同的平行時空，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，6.6萬其實基本上也是一個嚴峻的數字。"],["洪委員孟楷：你已經解釋過了，你是用6個月，但實際上現在的就業環境就不是這麼回事嘛！好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。","接下來請林楚茵委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-6","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","王育敏","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","王正旭","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林楚茵","陳亭妃","吳宗憲","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","廖偉翔","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林淑芬","羅廷瑋","李柏毅","劉建國","楊曜","陳瑩","吳春城","涂權吉"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2024-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1139201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"請勞動部部長就「我國全時職位缺工概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139201_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}