{"error":false,"id":["156290"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":156290,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156290","日期":"2024-10-30","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-26-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-10-30T11:01:28+08:00","結束時間":"2024-10-30T11:10:23+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:55","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/da0d5cdf8d126ade390ee73cc75e8f4a3b480ede9050f16a94934db31926c30066fd7484734a17d75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"11:01:28 - 11:10:23","會議時間":"2024-10-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長就「我國全時職位缺工概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月30日及31日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.73909375,"end":8.384093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.14721875,"end":12.231593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.585968750000003,"end":19.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.51721875,"end":21.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.64784375,"end":22.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.18346875,"end":27.250343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.92534375,"end":27.942218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.942218750000002,"end":31.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.97596875,"end":28.245968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.24534375,"end":36.869093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.69596875,"end":40.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.492843750000006,"end":44.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.76221875,"end":46.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.66909375,"end":48.900968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.05284375,"end":57.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.719093750000006,"end":53.963468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.009718750000005,"end":60.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.064093750000005,"end":58.587218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.93284375,"end":72.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.135343750000004,"end":61.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.79346875,"end":64.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.28659375000001,"end":66.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.01534375,"end":75.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.37784375000001,"end":82.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.48221875,"end":82.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.63409375,"end":82.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.12346875,"end":84.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.32159375,"end":84.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.35096875,"end":87.44346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.93284375,"end":93.07971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.82221875,"end":102.15846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.91784375,"end":104.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.21284375,"end":108.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.06034375,"end":111.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.82784375000001,"end":114.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.80221875000001,"end":114.02159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.44346875000001,"end":114.84846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.21971875000001,"end":121.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.39159375000001,"end":125.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.15471875000001,"end":128.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.71971875,"end":130.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.68971875,"end":132.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.27596875,"end":135.21659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.19534375,"end":147.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.27784375000002,"end":150.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.70784375000002,"end":150.75846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.75846875000002,"end":153.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.20534375,"end":160.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.13659375,"end":166.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.45221875000001,"end":168.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.61221875,"end":168.86534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.86534375000002,"end":168.88221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.01721875,"end":170.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.48534375,"end":175.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.96971875,"end":179.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.05346875,"end":182.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.20909375000002,"end":184.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.50409375,"end":193.40159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.73909375000002,"end":194.58284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.66284375,"end":196.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.91159375,"end":199.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.08409375000002,"end":209.31471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.92221875,"end":211.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.43659375000001,"end":228.73784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.59034375000002,"end":248.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.39596875,"end":229.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.41659375,"end":232.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.47034375,"end":240.53346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.71909375,"end":241.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.95409375000003,"end":253.18971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.51034375,"end":254.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.97846875000002,"end":258.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.14221875000004,"end":264.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.81659375000004,"end":265.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.23846875000004,"end":273.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.08096875,"end":277.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.86096875000004,"end":281.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.01221875000005,"end":289.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.93534375,"end":288.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.01534375,"end":290.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.60159375,"end":291.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.98534375,"end":295.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.27159375,"end":300.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.97534375000004,"end":303.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.16909375,"end":306.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.37534375,"end":308.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.61971875,"end":311.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.06659375000004,"end":318.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.35659375,"end":331.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.18159375000005,"end":337.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.42971875,"end":348.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.67409375,"end":340.16346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.07784375,"end":349.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.79909375,"end":352.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.76096875,"end":352.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.38096875,"end":352.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.66784375000003,"end":352.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.68471875,"end":358.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.62971875,"end":354.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.82721875000004,"end":362.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.96221875000003,"end":360.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.57346875,"end":365.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.71221875000003,"end":370.96034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.24284375,"end":379.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.74784375,"end":381.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.58721875000003,"end":388.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.80971875,"end":390.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.19346875,"end":391.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.21034375000005,"end":391.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.22721875,"end":395.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.94846875,"end":395.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.45846875,"end":398.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.06971875000005,"end":402.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.32659375000003,"end":403.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.46159375,"end":405.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.65534375000004,"end":407.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.98409375,"end":411.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.10159375,"end":416.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.79284375000003,"end":417.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.54346875000005,"end":419.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.62346875000003,"end":427.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.96409375,"end":428.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.97659375,"end":432.52034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.94221875000005,"end":437.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.07221875000005,"end":451.11659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.15659375,"end":438.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.78346875000005,"end":451.50471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.58909375,"end":456.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.26346875,"end":463.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.17784375,"end":465.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.03409375,"end":466.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.41784375000003,"end":477.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.88034375,"end":486.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.60159375,"end":480.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.97596875000005,"end":487.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.38096875,"end":497.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.72534375000004,"end":498.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.94471875000005,"end":500.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.37034375,"end":506.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.09096875000006,"end":513.6553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.41471875,"end":517.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.8784687500001,"end":518.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.36346875,"end":524.2865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.2865937500001,"end":524.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.5734687500001,"end":528.9440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.92346875,"end":526.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.60659375,"end":528.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.9440937500001,"end":529.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.01159375,"end":529.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.06221875,"end":529.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.14659375,"end":533.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.5134687500001,"end":534.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.6140937499999,"end":535.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.93034375,"end":535.9640937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.596,"end":22.234,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請部長 請何部長部長好 我想我們現在遇到最大的問題就是說一方面有人沒有投入"},{"start":23.223,"end":46.709,"text":"然後一方面是有老闆請不到工那這當中到底為什麼會有這樣的一個差別這個所謂的一個學用落差的問題還是因為這個勞動力沒有人願意進入到底是什麼樣的一個狀況我們有沒有去分析過是有"},{"start":47.699,"end":72.249,"text":"那到底是什麼原因?這是您講的都是原因。學用落差就是一個很嚴重的問題。學用落差,然後還有勞動力,我們年輕一輩的不願意進入。然後如果有技術面的問題,我們現在都缺技術面,是這樣嗎?好,那重點是我們即將又有378萬的人要退休了。"},{"start":73.052,"end":93.051,"text":"那這些如果退了之後其實很多技術人員說真的他們現在都被重聘回來為什麼要重聘回來沒有技術人員可以去指導啊然後所有的公司或是工廠的一個延續性延續不下去嘛"},{"start":93.892,"end":120.381,"text":"那重點是好我們現在目前一些剛退休的我們還可以拼回來可是如果在10年後呢在10年後呢所以這個問題現在的缺工從工業面工業面缺工3600人這都是我們勞動部的資料喔工業就缺了3600人好你說我們的勞動力"},{"start":122.438,"end":135.221,"text":"比較辛苦的勞動力不願意進入到我們的工業那好我們看到服務業也缺了三萬五千六百人連服務業喔也缺了三萬五千六百人"},{"start":136.28,"end":157.338,"text":"所以這個問題已經到了你沒有去把它變成是一個上位各部會去討論的說真的很難解決已經很難解決了我們所看到的說現在目前失業率可能依照比例當中雖然我們現在總計是3.43%"},{"start":161.181,"end":184,"text":"可是我們看到一個區塊很大區塊就是15到24歲就是我們剛畢業的這個區塊那奇怪了剛畢業的這個區塊我們再看往前光服務業不要說工業啦工業你說因為有一些勞動然後有一些年輕人可能技術面沒有辦法可是光服務業"},{"start":185.598,"end":185.839,"text":"好,部長。"},{"start":195.834,"end":220.075,"text":"這怎麼辦是這就是委員在15到24歲11趴的這樣的失業率這代表一個學用落差真的很嚴重就是另外一個是新型態的平台經濟的勞動型態也吸引了很多年輕人所以讓他們也不願意去投入這種傳統的勞動領域甚至包括服務業都是"},{"start":220.575,"end":247.062,"text":"所以這那包括可是呢我們服務業的部門呢他又普遍低薪這也是一個大問題對那部長這怎麼辦這個我們都知道整個新型態服務的一些改變讓年輕人寧可進入到新型態的一個服務勞動然後不願意進入到這比較實質面實體面的一些服務勞動"},{"start":249.062,"end":258.414,"text":"我們就認為在這個區塊那怎麼辦因為平台總是有一些空間而已嘛並不是全部都可以進入到這裡"},{"start":260.182,"end":281.861,"text":"當他飽和的時候還是要回歸到一個現實面那這怎麼辦我們現在就是要強化青年在這個包括他的執訓還有包括他的中階技術人力的培育因為長期以來說解決學用落差就是我們現在要也是要跟教育部經濟部一起來合作來處理的"},{"start":283.542,"end":308.609,"text":"就是這個學訓用的整合要真的要趕快再強化對那我們部長這個這個問題齁大概從56年前我們發現從一直講一直講講到現在學用落差當時候最夯的就是博士去賣雞排那個當時候哇大家一片的震驚但是現在稀鬆平常"},{"start":309.916,"end":336.163,"text":"現在是稀鬆平常所以我們反而一直在講不但沒有解決問題反而問題更大那表示到底是我們的勞動部教育部我們相關的單單位沒有整合起來或是並沒有真正針對問題去做解決還是甚至我們這樣的一個平台我們不是固定都有開相關會議嗎有"},{"start":338.064,"end":357.902,"text":"我們有三部會的平台會議可是平安心講這真的要檢討就是這相關的學訓用整合計畫目前落實都不好對啊那為什麼落實不好部長你都會感覺落實不好了那為什麼會落實不好"},{"start":359.803,"end":378.81,"text":"這個問題明明就部長我相信在五六年前那個新聞大家非常震驚說哇你看博士去賣雞排現在大家是覺得正常哇這是變成大家心態改變了不是政府改變了是大家內心深處的心態改變了這是有問題所以你看我們這個所謂跨部會的平台會議我們已經幾年了"},{"start":389.838,"end":394.521,"text":"我國全時職位缺工概況：陳亭妃我國全時職位缺工概況：陳亭妃我國全時職位缺工概況：陳亭妃"},{"start":419.585,"end":437.312,"text":"部長怎麼辦在你們依照你們在第一線的這個勞動力的一個評估跟看法對委員跟委員報告其實就是產業的需求似乎在我們學訓用整合的這一個銜接上一直都有落差"},{"start":438.152,"end":464.858,"text":"就是你找了學生來可是呢企業在哪裡就是企業也未必願意來先把這些學生先可是部長你如果問教育部教育部就跟你講說有啊我們都有在做盤整啊然後我們也都有符合我們資訊我們技職學校都有在開課啊"},{"start":466.398,"end":486.573,"text":"問題就來了就是技職學校所開的課並不是現在產業所需要的那現在產業需要什麼?你們是不是要彙整你們勞動部跟經濟部?是啊你們要去彙整啊你們勞動部跟經濟部你們的需求是什麼?你們的要求是什麼?"},{"start":487.873,"end":513.311,"text":"這樣才能真正在教育部的體系當中在職系或是在技職的一個系所裡面有他發揮的空間嘛對不對那這個到底什麼時候部長你可以給我們時間我每次如果沒有壓時間好像今天講完之後就不見了是不是這個檢討是不是可以一個月給我們知道說到底經濟部跟勞動部現在盤整出來"},{"start":514.432,"end":514.492,"text":"謝謝陳亭妃"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":720,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（11時1分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長好。我想我們現在遇到最大的問題就是，一方面有人沒有工作，一方面是有老闆請不到工，這當中到底為什麼會有這樣的差別？是所謂學用落差的問題，還是因為這個勞動力沒有人願意進入？到底是什麼樣的一個狀況，我們有沒有去分析過？"],["何部長佩珊：是，有。"],["陳委員亭妃：到底是什麼原因？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，其實您講的都是原因。"],["陳委員亭妃：都是原因？"],["何部長佩珊：對，學用落差就是一個很嚴重的問題。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，學用落差，然後還有勞動力，我們年輕一輩的不願意進入……"],["何部長佩珊：是，薪資沒有誘因。"],["陳委員亭妃：如果有技術面的問題，我們現在都缺技術面，是這樣嘛？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，重點是我們即將又有378萬人要退休了，這些人如果退了之後，其實很多技術人員，說真的，他們現在都被重聘回來，為什麼要重聘回來？因為找不到技術員啊！"],["何部長佩珊：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：沒有技術員可以去指導啊，然後所有的公司或工廠的延續性延續不下去嘛！重點是現在對於一些剛退休的人我們還可以聘回來，可是如果再10年後呢？所以這個問題是現在缺工，從工業面來說，缺工3萬600人，這都是我們勞動部的資料喔！"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：工業方面就缺了3萬600人，好，你說比較辛苦的勞動力不願意進入到我們的工業，但我們看到服務業也缺了3萬5,600人，連服務業也缺了3萬5,600人，所以這個問題已經到了如果沒有把它變成是上位並請各部會一起去討論的問題，說真的很難解決。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：已經很難解決了！我們所看到的是，以目前的失業率來說，雖然總計是3.43%，可是我們看到一個很大區塊的就是15到24歲，也就是剛畢業的這個區塊，奇怪了，剛畢業的這個區塊，我們再看，光是服務業，不要說工業啦，工業因為有一些勞動，然後有一些年輕人可能技術面沒有辦法，可是光服務業也是缺工這麼多，然後15到24歲的失業率是11.88%，部長，這怎麼辦？"],["何部長佩珊：是，委員，在15到24歲有11%的失業率，這代表學用落差真的很嚴重，另外一個是新型態的平臺經濟的勞動型態也吸引了很多年輕人，讓他們也不願意去投入這種傳統的勞動領域，甚至包括服務業都是，而且我們服務業的部門又普遍低薪，這也是一個大問題，所以……"],["陳委員亭妃：對，部長，這怎麼辦？這些我們都知道，整個新型態服務的一些改變，讓年輕人寧可進入到新型態的服務勞動……"],["何部長佩珊：平臺經濟。"],["陳委員亭妃：然後不願意進入到比較實質面、實體面的一些服務勞動，我們就想請問這個區塊怎麼辦？因為平臺總是有一些空間而已嘛，並不是全部都可以進入到這裡，當它飽和的時候，還是要回歸到一個現實面，這怎麼辦？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們現在就是要強化包括青年的職訓，包括中階技術人力的培育，因為長期以來，我們要解決學用落差，我們現在也是要跟教育部、經濟部一起來合作及處理的，就是學、訓、用的整合真的要趕快再強化，我們……"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，這個問題大概從五、六年前我們發現後就一直講、一直講的講到現在，學用落差當時最夯的就是博士去賣雞排，當時大家一片的震驚，但是現在稀鬆平常，現在是稀鬆平常！所以我們一直在講，不但沒有解決問題，反而問題更大，到底是我們的勞動部、教育部及相關單位沒有整合起來，還是並沒有真正針對問題去做解決，還是甚至我們這樣的一個平臺，我們不是固定都有開相關會議嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：有，我們有三部會的平臺會議。"],["陳委員亭妃：對啊！"],["何部長佩珊：可是憑良心講，這真的要檢討，就是相關的學訓用整合計畫目前的落實都不好。"],["陳委員亭妃：對啊，那為什麼落實不好？部長，你都會感覺落實不好了，那為什麼會落實不好？這個問題明明就……"],["何部長佩珊：沒有match……"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我相信五、六年前的那個新聞讓大家非常震驚說：哇，你看博士去賣雞排，現在大家是覺得正常，這是大家心態改變了，不是政府改變，是大家內心深處的心態改變，這是有問題的，你看我們這個所謂跨部會的平臺會議已經幾年了？"],["何部長佩珊：四、五年。"],["陳委員亭妃：幾年了？"],["何部長佩珊：差不多有四、五年了。"],["陳委員亭妃：對啊，四、五年了。這個平臺就是在當時這個新聞出來後大家覺得太嚴重，不是浪費我們整個教育資源而已，是一個博士生，一個博士耶，所以我們認為這四、五年來不但沒有改變，更加嚴重，部長，怎麼辦？以你們在第一線勞動力的評估跟看法來說。"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員報告，其實就是產業的需求似乎在我們學訓用整合的銜接上一直都有落差，就是……"],["陳委員亭妃：是啊！"],["何部長佩珊：就是你找了學生來，可是企業在哪裡？就是企業也未必願意先把這些學生……"],["陳委員亭妃：可是部長，你如果去問教育部，教育部就會跟你說：有啊，我們都有在做盤整啊，然後也都有符合職訓，技職學校都有在開課啊！問題就來了，就是技職學校所開的課並不是現在產業所需要的，現在產業需要什麼？你們是不是要彙整你們勞動部跟經濟部？"],["何部長佩珊：是，這是我們現在要去處理的重點……"],["陳委員亭妃：是啊，你們要去彙整啊，你們勞動部跟經濟部的需求是什麼，你們的要求是什麼，這樣才能真正在教育部的體系當中，在職系或是在技職的系所裡面有發揮的空間嘛，對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：這個部分到底什麼時候，部長，你可不可以給我們時間，我們每次如果沒有押時間，好像今天講完之後就不見了，這個檢討是不是可以在一個月內提出，讓我們知道到底經濟部跟勞動部現在盤整出來我們產業的需要是什麼？"],["何部長佩珊：是，當然、當然。"],["陳委員亭妃：然後我們要怎麼回饋到教育部，在我們新的學年如何去統整新的系所，甚至跟產業合作，是不是有這樣的機會？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：好不好？一個月。"],["何部長佩珊：好，沒問題。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，謝謝喔！"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳亭妃委員。","接下來請吳宗憲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-6","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","王育敏","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","王正旭","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林楚茵","陳亭妃","吳宗憲","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","廖偉翔","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林淑芬","羅廷瑋","李柏毅","劉建國","楊曜","陳瑩","吳春城","涂權吉"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2024-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1139201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"請勞動部部長就「我國全時職位缺工概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139201_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}