{"error":false,"id":["156297"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":156297,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156297","日期":"2024-10-30","影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-10-30T11:17:00+08:00","結束時間":"2024-10-30T11:30:26+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:26","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/da0d5cdf8d126adea1f2d3e931e071fb67ff13663af3209e94934db31926c300e3ae72de851352f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"11:17:00 - 11:30:26","會議時間":"2024-10-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢。二、繼續審查「證券交易稅條例」5案：(一)\t行政院函請審議「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。(二)\t本院委員羅明才等20人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。(三)\t本院委員賴士葆等25人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。(四)\t本院委員伍麗華等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。(五)\t本院委員邱志偉等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」案。三、審查「證券交易稅條例」5案：(一)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「證券交易稅條例部分條文修正草案」。【本案如經院會復議，則不予審查】(二)\t本院委員林楚茵等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。(三)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」。【本案如經院會復議，則不予審查】(四)\t本院委員賴惠員等37人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。(五)\t本院委員蔡易餘等16人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」。【本案如經院會復議，則不予審查】四、審查金融監督管理委員會函送「延長調降當日沖銷交易稅之稅式支出評估報告」及「研商延長調降當沖交易證券交易稅實施期間」公聽會之會議紀錄案。五、討論中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案（含附屬單位預算及綜計表－營業及非營業部分）審查日程暨審查分配表草案。【10/30及10/31，兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.047843750000000004,"end":3.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.949718750000001,"end":7.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.000343750000001,"end":7.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.14784375,"end":79.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.36034375,"end":83.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.96721875,"end":84.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.60846875,"end":94.96971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.96971875000001,"end":108.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.04971875000001,"end":96.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.48221875,"end":116.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.01284375,"end":120.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.40096875,"end":116.77221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.03346875000001,"end":119.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.06721875000001,"end":119.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.02471875,"end":125.96909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.66534375,"end":127.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.35284375,"end":130.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.57596875000002,"end":133.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.64284375,"end":139.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.57471875000002,"end":147.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.61971875,"end":152.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.87221875,"end":152.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.22659375,"end":152.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.37846875,"end":152.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.76659375,"end":153.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.08721875,"end":154.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.82096875000002,"end":161.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.35159375,"end":163.44846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.97159375,"end":171.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.89471875,"end":172.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.34159375000002,"end":173.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.57784375,"end":175.69971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.91096875000002,"end":174.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.37034375000002,"end":182.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.17534375000002,"end":186.53346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.53346875000003,"end":194.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.44346875000002,"end":195.84846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.23659375000003,"end":196.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.21534375000002,"end":199.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.15596875,"end":200.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.72096875000003,"end":203.94846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.14659375000002,"end":217.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.21659375000002,"end":217.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.41471875000002,"end":243.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.19096875000002,"end":218.68034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.25346875000002,"end":223.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.35659375,"end":238.81221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.34721875000002,"end":252.43034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.02096875,"end":255.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.72096875000003,"end":257.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.31971875,"end":259.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.05784375,"end":264.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.73659375,"end":319.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.99221875,"end":275.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.23409375,"end":341.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.32784375,"end":421.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.06159375000004,"end":371.34846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.33846875,"end":382.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.04096875000005,"end":477.23909375000005},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論是紐約時報或者是CNN的報導從目前看起來風光的民調大概都47比47所以在國際上很多建制派的國際社會都開始做"},{"start":35.273,"end":49.785,"text":"不同的準備看起來川普當選的機率是越來越高那這個衝擊變數也都會有我相信我們在整個金融市場上也應該要做一些預估跟準備才對那美國大選的不平靜"},{"start":51.106,"end":78.731,"text":"當然在反映在我們的金融市場上有幾個問題點我倒要請教一下主委就是我們現在在美國的公債的直升利率再一次的創新高今年度2024年第二季是達到9兆8千億那在美國佔海外市場的這個曝險的比率佔達35.1%這兩個數字都是再一次的創新高那我想請教主委"},{"start":79.631,"end":107.999,"text":"對於現在的狀況你有沒有什麼具體的建議剛剛委員的問題有兩大部分一個就是說有關美國大選的結果對臺灣資本市場或金融市場的衝擊我們的因應措施剛剛有非常多的委員這個當然是一個非常比較大的課題但是因為我看到這個保險的這個比值其實是再一次的創新高那我先請教主委我們第三季因為還沒公佈我們第三季的數字是比這個還高嗎"},{"start":109.777,"end":133.396,"text":"因為他這部分會因為這個利率的變化他那個部位會影響到對那第三季照理說應該馬上就要公佈了吧那第三季的數字是怎麼樣應該我覺得這部分還是處於比較高的這樣一個數字所以會更高會破十兆嗎應該我覺得應該是差不多這樣一個比現在還高嗎因為下個禮拜就要公佈了比現在還高嗎"},{"start":134.67,"end":154.46,"text":"待會我請那個銀行局看他有沒有掌握到一些數據再跟委員報告主委你應該知道才對對於川普有可能回來然後整個建制派國際社會大家都在做準備難道這個我們沒有做準備嗎這個我們對我們的投資部協議一直都有在監控有在做監控那比數可能會更高"},{"start":155.851,"end":181.699,"text":"比重可能會更高現在9兆8千億35.1%美國占35.1%比數可能更高其實這很大一部分比如說像我們的那個受險業在這邊就占了很大的一個比重我清楚所以就更需要小心嘛對所以更需要小心嘛那第三季的數字你看過了嗎第三季的話剛才我們看到數字是比較低的數字是多少"},{"start":184.925,"end":200.12,"text":"27.83兆台幣怎麼會是27.83兆怎麼會差這麼多現在第二季底就是9兆8千億怎麼會是27.83兆沒有是總共的海外的曝險那美國佔整理海外曝險27.83兆你剛剛說更高這數字到底精不精確"},{"start":205.165,"end":233.126,"text":"美國我們現在的統計數據到113年9月份的話所以我現在問你的第4、第3季對36.757所以更高嘛更高嘛知識有可能接近10兆好這主委我覺得具體建議就是說我覺得這件事情還是對於金工業未來面對於整個國際環境的景氣到底有哪些風險會不會有黑天鵝或者是灰犀牛"},{"start":233.826,"end":257.23,"text":"我希望我們所有的金融部會都要做最好的準備這是第一個第一個我不知道你們因應的策略你可不可以簡單的回應我一下當然就是說面向是多面向比如我們對資本市場的部分我們剛剛也有委員關切過我們有一套的運作機制我們會針對不同的結果可能對什麼樣產業影響對我們整個"},{"start":260.231,"end":275.013,"text":"資本市場的波動有多大那我們該採取什麼樣的動作我們在前一波大陸的房市大跌之後我覺得我們那一波控制的還蠻好的但是面對於現在美國大選之後的一個結果結構整個國際的經濟結構我覺得要有一些因應的策略"},{"start":275.393,"end":290.09,"text":"好第二點其實我今天好幾個主題喔主委您上任之後做了很多的努力包括iPhone17包括法規的調適平台包括國人投資帳戶TESA這兩天我都有看到報紙有在寫包括金控的整併包括金融科技創新"},{"start":292.692,"end":318.418,"text":"點點點都很多外界都給你很多的還不錯的評價但是業界也有另外一種聲音就是在處理這些事情的時候包括像在處理新興合併的議題上我們看到主委的態度是非常堅定的而且非常強硬但是碰到跨部會的議題的時候看到主委又變成是好好先生yes man變成是尊重財政部的意見"},{"start":320.287,"end":340.315,"text":"主委你先不用急著否認我舉幾個例子你就知道我可能要舉什麼第一點就是在TESA的部分TESA的部分我們都知道它是一個個人長期的投資帳戶怎麼樣鼓勵國人願意把錢投資進去目前我看到的其實應該有更多的不同的財稅工具才對"},{"start":341.465,"end":363.174,"text":"你現在看到的是說還有減免手續費國人的一個長期投資帳戶他可能是一個長期放子他不會是進進出出像晚短期當沖降稅一樣進進出出所以這個個人的投資帳戶我不知道財政部給你一個是什麼樣的意見你剛剛我從媒體上看到說你是尊重財政部的意見但是我覺得如果是這樣的話這個TISA這個帳戶"},{"start":365.475,"end":389.437,"text":"因為很多人他不會是常常進進出出他會是一個長期性的投資我舉泰國來說泰國他是55歲以上才可以提或者是你投資滿5年以上才可以提出來就是說他有很多的政策工具他希望是一個長期穩定的投資所以如果是這樣只有一個減免手續費那到底他會不會成功我是有疑問的那第二點"},{"start":390.037,"end":417.931,"text":"主委就是說我舉另外一個例子包括我們當中降稅你本來希望是5年啊最後財政部才給你3年那另外一個你長期在強調說我們希望臺灣你上任收的證件希望亞洲可以變成亞洲資產管理中心可以放寬外匯的管制後來財政部也沒有支持你然後另外一個就是我上個星期問財政部的他說金融營業稅之前你說我們希望可以跨部會的協調爭取你本來希望說降為2%"},{"start":419.252,"end":435.467,"text":"後來他還是堅持5%我要請問主委這些是我覺得我覺得你該站在金融業該立即爭取的地方但最後你都用尊重你在很多外界的觀感當中你是一個好好先生你是一個可以溝通協調的人但是"},{"start":435.967,"end":456.213,"text":"碰到跨部會的時候有時候我覺得對你過去長期的政見想要落實你剛開始第一次來到我辦公室你說你希望做一個溫水跟冰塊理論你希望用你的溫水來去融化公部門的僵硬我不知道你還記不記得這件事情所以你的政見政策要落實的時候你就要學會做一個討厭"},{"start":457.873,"end":476.785,"text":"被討厭的人有一篇文章說被討厭的人我不知道報紙有寫你這一篇我不知道你有沒有看到就是說很多在專業性上我覺得該立即爭取的地方你不應該是用尊重去配合財政部的意見這是我的看法你等一下你可以說我想先請問部長主委你是不是知道金融營業稅去年是多少億去年因為我們是大概總共全年對"},{"start":487.6,"end":498.905,"text":"這個詳細數字我記不起來不好意思主委那我就要告訴你我覺得去年是800億就是說協調這些事情當中你有沒有導過政委或中泰院長來幫你跟部會協調這個我們當然有有跨部會有嗎你有找長官來協調嗎我們政委政委來幫你協調有嗎我們有院級的協調這個當然不會是院級的協調對那你被說服了"},{"start":517.796,"end":542.484,"text":"這個其實 縣委員我可以整體做個說明了嗎可以喔 那就是說剛剛提到委員就說其實我們政府是一體的我們的溝通折衝我們不會對 你不用跟我講溝通折衝你的想法專業過去如果是賴總統找你來他支持你的做法我覺得碰到對的事情你就應該是堅持到底"},{"start":543.064,"end":558.397,"text":"我剛剛講那三項算是你很大的政策你也在這邊你也是希望達到那個目標但最後只變成尊重財政部金融業的特性其實它就是沒有淨扣的稅額可以抵扣所以其實2001年的時候那時候金融營業稅是降為零現在財政部是打你臉財政部是說這個金融業它有兩個說法中稅有兩個說法"},{"start":568.806,"end":588.954,"text":"他說金融業我們臺灣在國際上我們金融整體的稅率並沒有比國際高但事實上我們都很清楚知道其實我們的金融業它因為它沒有那個扣除額在競相的扣除額所以事實上在國際上我們事實上比例是比較高的我們的整體的稅率是比較高的這一點我沒有講錯吧"},{"start":597.379,"end":617.504,"text":"這個就是說其實上剛剛跟委員報告我們金管會是站在金融這個管理的主管機關我們的態度一直沒有變我們是支持剛才那個金融業稅下降但是我們整個國家有他的政策那我還是有 我知道啊但是蕭克雲這個說法就是一個錯誤的說法嘛不是"},{"start":617.924,"end":644.702,"text":"就是他有不一樣的租稅的考量畢竟我剛才講為什麼要尊重財政部不同租稅的考量但是整體金融業的整體稅率事實上是比國際還要高的這句話你同意嗎我沒有講錯吧沒有應該講說他不是一個全面取樣不一樣比如說剛才稅率的部分有各種的稅法我們不是只看營業稅這一項各個國家也不是單一比較這個稅率我想各有各的這些的主張因為世界很多國家稅制是不同的"},{"start":645.262,"end":667.227,"text":"那我們當然會有看到比我們高也有比我們低的不可能是絕對高絕對低我只是說這是財政部他是主導我們的政策我們的態度還是很明確的你如果這樣回應我的話我覺得你長期在講說要爭取臺灣做亞太金融的這個整個市場也好你的努力我都覺得說要讓我們的金融業有更多的競爭力"},{"start":668.607,"end":694.298,"text":"其實我們爭取一些稅務的其實跟我們報告就是我們在爭取這個部分我們從來沒有停止過我們但是不會因為沒有爭取到我們現在目的我們就停下來不做你會持續的爭取因為莊瑞雲的第二個說法來主委你看我第二個說法莊瑞雲說我們現在金融業是飢餓的好學生所以沒有調整稅率的必要所以莊瑞雲的說法是你是教授出身所以好學生就應該被處罰嗎"},{"start":696.179,"end":707.613,"text":"這是財政部的立場那我剛才講過我跟委員報告我們在過去不管在財委會在什麼地方我們都是支持要調降的這個態度我們所以你會持續的爭取你會持續的溝通當然我們溝通會持續你對這個結果滿不滿意這個畢竟是一個財政部的執掌範圍"},{"start":716.559,"end":734.439,"text":"但是跟你有關耶你是金融業的大家長也不是大家長我是站在我們的專業立場你就應該反映金融業現在的挑戰跟困境還有你要把它轉型成我們要做亞洲杯的頭這都是你要努力的方向你現在的牙齒工具都被拿掉了"},{"start":735.341,"end":750.06,"text":"現在沒有並不代表以後不會有但是我們一定要持續的努力不會因為等待這個東西我們什麼都不做所以我們剛剛講的就是說我們還是會持續的努力站在我們的基礎會議上怎麼會努力你具體的作為什麼時候會出來讓我看到中村雲都已經都已經直接打你臉啦"},{"start":751.842,"end":767.623,"text":"這兩項說明就是莊主任直接打你臉啦也不是打臉啦報告委員這個就是說我們各自有各自的職長但是呢我們還是態度很堅定講說我們站在金融監督管理委員會立場我們是支持能夠調整這營業稅的但是你會持續的爭取你會有其他的工具出來嗎"},{"start":770.085,"end":783.233,"text":"包括像提撒的部分我上次委員報告過我們現階段是這樣但是未來我們沒有放棄爭取其他的租稅優惠鼓勵的可能性要達到你當時目標找長官來協調一下找院長來幫忙協調一下我現在在幫你落實你當時來我辦公室還有賴總統的政見不然的話你東西都會拔掉金融業怎麼會有彈性呢"},{"start":793.319,"end":794.24,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}