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會長CPTPP我是這個立法院處理經濟委員會的會長那我長期希望這個CPTPP我們該做的可操作在即的都已經完成了包括相關的法律的修改 完全符合CPTPP的標準那我們希望說 這個能夠在去年加拿大 明年是澳洲"},{"start":83.601,"end":107.004,"text":"相對不是這個中國可以控制的國家所以我們最怕就是中國因素嘛那現在有許多新的國家在加入是共識局啦我想請問一下那個江組長有沒有信心在明年澳洲當輪值主席的時候能夠有機會加入CPTPP您的評估呢"},{"start":108.787,"end":113.592,"text":"報告委員,謝謝委員關心,我們會盡各種努力來對於加入CPP"},{"start":116.277,"end":142.892,"text":"因為報告委員您也很清楚我們要加入CPTPP的話必須要符合這個奧克蘭原則也就是那個原則我也很清楚我只是說你作為一個主管機關你當然還要結合談判辦公室對不對還要結合各外交的管束社會管束因為會議過程很多你要共識覺得何其容易何其困難非常不容易的事情但是我知道你們很努力我想請你說"},{"start":143.892,"end":164.483,"text":"你評估明年加入的可能性高不高委員我們會盡最大的努力因為這個相關的這個入會工作小組的工作那你不能告訴我每年都要盡最大努力盡最大努力是基本的態度嘛但是我覺得你應該讓國會知道目前哪些國家的困難度比較高"},{"start":166.321,"end":193.28,"text":"哪些國家還有哪些問題需要克服的我們一起結合外交部、結合這個經貿談判公司一起來會商來解決嘛是你要跟部長報告目前的進度在哪裡是所以一起努力繼續加油謝謝好謝謝江組長來游署長昨天還沒問江組長請回座那個游署長這個部分啊利樂啊"},{"start":195.131,"end":221.609,"text":"地流跟小水利發電都是再生能源對不對是但是你推動都會發生問題有一些的困難或者法令協調所以以至於我們有很好的這個地流發展的環境對不對但是卻沒有辦法去像其他國家土耳其啦或者印尼他能夠發電這個他的發電規模比雖然比我們晚開始但是他們建設的發電規模比我們快"},{"start":222.642,"end":251.19,"text":"就是國家在主導你出席的投入成本挖掘成本很高對不對所以這部分昨天有跟這個部長提過第6、8令有相關的限制包括土地問題、人民資產問題、懷民問題、經費的問題另外主導性的問題如果由政府主導它難度就降低對不對是這部分我希望說部長是不是折成一個推動小組啊部裡面要有推動小組設定目標你現在目標設定實在太保守"},{"start":252.578,"end":268.799,"text":"所以地熱發電是為未來再生能源重要的支柱之一現在是太陽能還有離岸風電為地熱是很大的潛力但是我們沒有充分發揮我希望有揮動小組定期設定相關的HPI定期去追蹤"},{"start":270.519,"end":281.902,"text":"這個部長可以嗎?可以,我會向我們的這個綠能辦公室啊來要求他要有專人來專責來這個組織然後來督導這個...台電總經理台電王總這個第6發電跟台電有沒有關係?我覺得王總經理非常稱職他也非常專業我請教專業的問題我還要請教他因為已經我們熊總一樣第6部分"},{"start":300.066,"end":305.429,"text":"您覺得未來臺灣有沒有更大的發展空間?另外小水利發力也是很重要,部長"},{"start":325.213,"end":325.593,"text":"另外,環境部省次長．"},{"start":356.789,"end":377.886,"text":"新城市長部長委員好那個SRF目前啊這個當然SRF目前這個補助好像取消了嘛是補助取消了嘛你未來這些管制措施啊那你要怎麼去兼顧這個這個相關的這個去化的要求"},{"start":378.84,"end":386.748,"text":"所以這個部分你這個SRF的政策補助政策有調整那64萬噸可燃的廢棄物這個處理的問題你們有沒有方案"},{"start":390.526,"end":416.31,"text":"跟委員報告現在可燃的部分大部分都進到我們的二次製作的大型的焚化爐那我們就是希望把高熱值的引流出來用SRF做成燃料那燃料必須要符合燃料的標準然後在使用端必須要符合排放標準那這樣的話就可以讓它適所適用那目前以去年來講大概有30萬噸的SRF是被製造跟使用的"},{"start":416.77,"end":433.041,"text":"對那未來有更多的這個投資會進來做製造跟使用這個產業反映一些亂象這些亂象我想就提供給你看製造端的違規現象應用端的惡性循環策略執行跟現實的落差這些反映給你你看怎麼去解決"},{"start":434.162,"end":457.379,"text":"有把這些三大亂象提出一個具體解決方案若時間限制,是不是可以一個順便資料給我?可以,各位簡單報告一下我們在今年的6月到9月之前進行了前面的總體檢那麼也提出了一些改進的措施那在年底之前會訂定一些辦法以及這個排放標準的加嚴那另外替代燃料排碳的減量方法這個目前還沒有公告嗎?對不對?我們是以這一個"},{"start":462.042,"end":462.542,"text":"市長,您覺得國發會的這個意見,您覺得怎麼樣?"},{"start":492.97,"end":496.816,"text":"我們現在主要就是因為要因應這個整個出口的這個市場"},{"start":498.72,"end":522.728,"text":"所以他要成立這個控股公司幫助我們整個產業鏈也就是說現在比較沒有競爭力的這個產業鏈可以透過這個供應鏈的關係就產業嘛對對用水五金啊是不是水五金我家隊的這個意思對我知道水五金、車用電子包括資訊服務另外工具機嘛是先來工具機開始是"},{"start":523.388,"end":532.479,"text":"那國發會要輔導這些公司成立控股公司就是打國家隊那經濟部站在什麼角度去協助呢?我們站在就是幫他這個"},{"start":534.241,"end":538.343,"text":"我先到我先到我言促必行國會議員如果不能遵守發言時間基本的素養不夠"},{"start":564.656,"end":566.842,"text":"那有相關的資料我再跟您請教"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":739,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時22分）謝謝主席。作為召委都很辛苦，要主持會議，對我個人而言，遵守發言的時間是我作為一個國會議員基本的素質，如果連這個時間都沒有辦法掌握好，恐怕對選民的承諾很難能夠具體實現，所以，我一定遵守6加2。"],["主席：好。"],["邱委員志偉：先有請郭部長、江署長，然後游振偉游署長。"],["主席：請郭部長、江署長、游署長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：接續昨天還沒有問完的，部長，我是立法院CPTPP促進會的會長，我長期希望，CPTPP我們該做的、可操之在己的都已經完成了，包括相關的法律修改，完全符合CPTPP的標準，我們希望能夠在主席國，今年是加拿大，明年是澳洲，相對不是中國可以控制的國家，我們最怕的就是中國因素嘛，現在有許多新的國家在申請加入，CPTPP是共識決，我想請問一下江署長，有沒有信心在明年澳洲當輪值主席的時候，能夠有機會加入CPTPP，您的評估呢？"],["江署長文若：報告委員，謝謝委員關心，我們會盡各種努力來對於加入CPTPP……"],["邱委員志偉：這跟去年的回答一樣。"],["江署長文若：因為報告委員，您也很清楚，我們要加入CPTPP的話，必須要符合奧克蘭原則，也就是要……"],["邱委員志偉：那個原則我也很清楚，我只是說，你作為一個主管機關，你當然還要結合談判辦公室，對不對？還要結合各外交館處（涉外館處），因為會員國很多，要達到共識決何其困難。"],["江署長文若：是。"],["邱委員志偉：非常不容易的事情，但是我知道你們很努力，我想請你說，你評估明年加入的可能性高不高？"],["江署長文若：委員，我們會盡最大的努力，因為相關入會工作小組的工作，我們也在……"],["邱委員志偉：那你也不能每年都告訴我要盡最大努力，盡最大努力是基本的態度嘛，但是我覺得你應該讓國會知道，目前哪些國家的困難度比較高，哪些國家還有哪些問題需要克服的，我們一起結合外交部，結合經貿談判辦公室，一起來會商解決嘛。"],["江署長文若：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你也要跟部長報告，目前的進度在哪裡。"],["江署長文若：是。"],["邱委員志偉：所以一起努力，繼續加油。"],["江署長文若：謝謝。"],["邱委員志偉：謝謝江署長，江署長請回座。游署長，昨天還沒問完，地熱跟小水力發電都是再生能源，對不對？"],["游署長振偉：是。"],["邱委員志偉：但是你推動都會發生問題，有一些困難或者法令協調，所以，以致於我們有很好的地熱發展環境，對不對？"],["游署長振偉：是。"],["邱委員志偉：但是卻沒有辦法像其他的國家，土耳其或者印尼，雖然比我們晚開始，但是他們建置的發電規模比我們快，就是國家在主導，因為前期的投入成本，挖掘成本很高，對不對？所以這部分，我昨天有跟部長提過，地熱發電有相關的限制，包括土地的問題、原民諮商的問題、環評的問題、經費的問題；另外，主導性的問題，如果由政府主導，它的難度就會降低，對不對？"],["游署長振偉：是。"],["邱委員志偉：這部分我希望，部長，是不是責成一個推動小組，部裡面要有推動小組設定目標，你現在的目標設定實在太保守，所以地熱發電是我們未來再生能源的重要支柱之一，現在是太陽能，還有離岸風電，我認為地熱有很大的潛力，但是我們沒有充公發揮，我希望有個推動小組，定期設定相關的KPI，定期去追蹤。部長，可以嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：可以。我會向我們的綠能辦公室來要求，要有專人、專責來組織、督導這個部分。"],["邱委員志偉：請教台電王總經理，地熱發電跟台電有沒有關係？我覺得王總經理非常稱職，他也非常專業，專業的問題我要請教他，因為這部分你最專業。地熱部分，您覺得未來臺灣有沒有更大的發展空間？"],["王總經理耀庭：地熱的部分分為兩個區塊，一個是鑽探的部分，我們是不是能夠鑽到足夠的熱源；第二個是我的電能不能送得出來……"],["邱委員志偉：對。"],["王總經理耀庭：在電送得出來送不出來這部分，台電會全力支持，至於地熱挖掘這部分，我們台電也有幾口井正在準備要挖當中。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，小水力發電也是很重要，部長，這個部分可以協調能源署跟台電來協助，小水力發電也碰到類似的困境，有各部會的問題，你們設定的目標也太過保守，我希望也一樣成立推動小組……"],["郭部長智輝：是，我會回去改革我們的綠能辦公室，要求把裡面的structure全部都改掉。"],["邱委員志偉：好，那地熱跟小水力發電，未來都要成立專責的辦公室去推動。","另外，請環境部沈次長，還有部長請留步。"],["主席：請沈次長。"],["沈次長志修：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：沈次長，關於SRF，當然SRF目前的補助好像取消了嘛？"],["沈次長志修：是。"],["邱委員志偉：補助取消了嘛。未來你這些管制措施要怎麼去兼顧相關的去化的要求，所以這個部分，SRF的補助政策有調整，那64萬噸可燃廢棄物的處理問題，你們有沒有方案？"],["沈次長志修：跟委員報告，現在可燃的部分大部分都進到我們24座的大型焚化爐，我們就是希望把高熱值的引流出來，用SRF做成燃料，那燃料必須要符合燃料的標準，然後在使用端必須要符合排放的標準，這樣的話，就可以讓它適所適用。目前以去年來講，大概有30萬噸的SRF是被製造跟使用的，未來有更多的投資會進來做製造跟使用。"],["邱委員志偉：這個產業反映出一些亂象，這些亂象我就提供給你看，包括製造端的違規現象，應用端的惡性循環，策略執行跟現實的落差，這些我反映給你……"],["沈次長志修：是，謝謝。"],["邱委員志偉：看要怎麼去解決，就這三大亂象提出一個具體的解決方案。如果時間限制，是不是可以給我一個書面資料？"],["沈次長志修：可以。我跟委員簡單報告一下，我們在今年的6月到9月之間進行了全面的總體檢，也提出了一些改進的措施，在年底之前也會訂定一些辦法，以及排放標準的加嚴。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，替代燃料排碳的減量方法，目前還沒有公告，對不對？"],["沈次長志修：我們是以SRF裡面可能會使用到木材，可能會使用……"],["邱委員志偉：什麼時候可以公告？"],["沈次長志修：是，我們有一個版本，我們會把它公告出來。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你在管制SRF的同時，你的替代燃煤的政策目標不應該偏廢。"],["沈次長志修：是。"],["邱委員志偉：這個部分環境部跟經濟部要一起努力。"],["沈次長志修：是，減少煤炭的使用，減少排碳。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝次長。"],["沈次長志修：謝謝委員。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，國發會要輔導成立一個控股公司，部長，國發會這個意見，您覺得怎麼樣？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在主要就是因為要因應整個出口的市場，所以它要成立這個控股公司，幫助我們整個產業鏈，也就是說，現在比較沒有競爭力的產業鏈可以透過這個供應鏈的關係……"],["邱委員志偉：就是傳統產業嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：對，這種產業……"],["邱委員志偉：是不是水五金？"],["郭部長智輝：國家隊的這個意思。"],["邱委員志偉：對，我知道，水五金、車用電子，包括資訊服務，另外就是工具機嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員志偉：先從工具機開始。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員志偉：國發會要輔導這些公司成立控股公司，就是組國家隊，那經濟部站在什麼角度去協助呢？"],["郭部長智輝：我們就是幫它、拉抬它、讓它可以高值化，我們儘量在這個產業鏈上面來幫它，第一個是提升它的技術；第二個，我們有經濟組可以透過外貿協會來……"],["邱委員志偉：我的時間到了，我言出必行啦！國會議員如果不能遵守發言時間，就是基本的素養不夠。那有相關的資料，我再跟你請教。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["主席：請鄭天財委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-9","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","黃健豪","邱志偉","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","蘇巧慧","黃國昌","羅智強","蔡易餘","王育敏","徐欣瑩","高金素梅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈伯洋","羅廷瑋","陳冠廷","涂權吉","黃珊珊","張嘉郡","陳超明"],"page_start":233,"meetingDate":["2024-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1139102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139102_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部部長、環境部首長就「我國\n對設置 SRF 發電廠之規劃評估，及設置 SRF 發電廠對我國環境之影響」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139102_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}