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到或者不好用很難用比如說今年你們勞動部推出的這個彈性育嬰的留職停薪的事辦計畫是"},{"start":297.481,"end":304.781,"text":"是不是成效是不是這個背後的概念很好是背後概念但是實際辦理成效是不是很差"},{"start":306.891,"end":334.684,"text":"對,那是事辦。七成六的事辦單位掛鈴嘛,對不對?部長。原因是什麼?我想請教一下。其實,這個台灣的企業的特性,它在這一種,就是說,因為它是以日跟小時為單位啦。它就是替代,尤其在現在缺工嘛。它的替代人力難找啦。那如果是像快狀的育嬰留庭,這六個月的,那個倒是成效很好。而且那個男性的申請也是達到新高。"},{"start":334.824,"end":345.626,"text":"所以我剛剛說這個計劃本身蠻糟糕的對不對就是說成效啊是不是很差就是你們自己統計嘛報紙都沒有嘛對不對好啦簡單來講沒關係簡單來講這個狀況就是說基本上會去用這個事辦計劃的員工就是沒有請這個比較長的育嬰假的對不對那他又已經回到職場了嘛對不對所以"},{"start":356.889,"end":385.412,"text":"他們會需要用那種短期育嬰流子停薪的員工其實就是比較少數啦那再來是小孩剛上幼兒園或是到托兒所之後其實因為他環境的差異啦或是其實有時候都會有臨時的突發狀況他可能會需要比較有請假的需求所以我在想的是是不是應該要把這種短期的談心的育嬰假適用對象因為本來是0到3嘛我們應該要把它擴大到6歲是不是比較符合家長的需求部長"},{"start":386.152,"end":392.578,"text":"因為既然0到6歲國家一起養那是否也應該在彈性育嬰假的上面擴大到0到6歲我原是指彈性育嬰假擴大0到6歲可是彈性育嬰假"},{"start":401.337,"end":420.95,"text":"性平法對對不對這要涉及修法這就是我後面要講的所以它涉及到修法我只是想說因為你畢竟你的政策目的你就是希望可以打造我剛剛說的這四大方向嘛這四大方向嘛所以這個修法我倒覺得是不是應該要可以去討論也就是去修性別平等工作法的第16條從3歲放寬到6歲"},{"start":424.535,"end":446.061,"text":"本席有跟其他委員有這樣的修法提案我是想要請教部長這部分是不是可以請開始評估說性平法16條的放寬年齡的事宜因為其實這樣子是站在家長的角度這樣是比較適用的吧委員我們的評估好不好對啊我就是我的要求是說是不是可以請你們評估那請問你們大概要多久的時間評估兩個月給您"},{"start":449.015,"end":461.06,"text":"兩個月評估可以說可不可以這樣做對不對好兩個兩個月我是覺得兩個月有點久欸一個月可以嗎這應該是蠻快的事情啊因為我們是希望幫這個我們的這些家長來推動啊"},{"start":464.873,"end":477.222,"text":"我們這個社會共識真的也是要凝聚一下因為彈性育嬰留庭那個意見就很多了那家中育有小孩的也是希望說家庭照顧假可以延長或是放寬這個彈性工時但這個比較複雜但是我還是想要請教部長有沒有可能家庭照顧假也從7天放寬到14天"},{"start":489.793,"end":517.662,"text":"因為其實這個沒有這跟我們喊那些就是其他國家不同這是有需求的喔你可以你可以有這樣的放寬可是委員指的這個家庭照顧價是顧是簡單來講我做一個小結啦好不好我剛講的部分就是請你們去業生一併評估一併評估好不好就是說無論是育嬰價或是談心就是談心育嬰價其實最重要的還有這個家庭照顧價就是剛講的吧我前面就講這些數據跟你講這些東西其實部長你也都知道"},{"start":518.479,"end":547.847,"text":"你也都知道嘛但是你就是有沒有再去更細的去做或是去站在他們角度去思考嘛所以你們站在家長的角度去思考這個政策所以性別平等法的第16條的育嬰留職停薪從3歲放緩到6歲第20條的家庭照顧假如果從7天放緩到14天其實我覺得整體來講他是符合現行國家的這個0到6歲國家一起養的政策更可以減輕這個父母職的照顧責任所以這一開始我在講這個女性的部分"},{"start":548.527,"end":561.694,"text":"那同時也是可以讓女性的勞動力釋放的好方法所以你前面不是也說嗎你們就是希望各年齡層或者各性別的這種勞產率可以提高啊這就是我們我在提的這個概念就是這樣這是有脈絡的所以"},{"start":564.855,"end":579.498,"text":"我覺得這部分是不是可以請勞動部進促評估這個可行性而且也希望說是不是可以提報這個行政院的版本可以以示我們行政部門的決心就是評估之後因為我覺得這個東西我們就是站在這個女性參與剛剛前面都講得很清楚"},{"start":580.279,"end":606.381,"text":"好然後再來最後一個產假的部分也是啊因為我們都圍繞著這個主題在講嘛我們也知道現在剛剛前面我有說你今天的報告有講少子化是缺工一個很大的原因嘛那基本上少子化這長期以來也都是國安的問題啊所以我想要問一下如果你認為這個部長如果產假啦運營假啦家庭照顧假增加他是不是可以比較一條龍的照顧可以更好呢"},{"start":608.889,"end":634.011,"text":"這個部分是不是也可以並評估一條龍您是就是說剛剛產價運價家庭照顧價這個是不是一起進去去思考我會並評估給您好嗎對啊因為我覺得這是這不是我們國家的有先例其實其他國家在應對小子化都有這個部分所以爭取這個產價並不是隨口說說之前有好幾次專報也都說我們是我們是還有之前也有一份報告也將近六成女性覺得說那個價這個運價不夠對不對"},{"start":636.773,"end":658.842,"text":"所以其實我也要說以往都覺得要對標歐美國家我現在也給你看一個新聞嘛其實這個連我們旁邊的臨近中國大陸都有感於這個人口漸漸邁入老化他們在推所謂三胎那我想要講的是這連他們都在講說他們的全境產價是98天起跳那北上廣山大都市是98加60是158天"},{"start":661.283,"end":685.094,"text":"那廣東省全金更是98加80是178啊所以我要提的就是說我剛剛講的這些訴求我不是隨便亂喊啊其實很多人在做這件事情啊所以我就想說如果你們這麼消極會讓我們覺得說你是不是真的沒有這麼想要改善我們的生育率啊我想請問部長怎麼看啊我是希望這個是不是可以好好的評估其實我們我們一起來評估好嗎"},{"start":686.391,"end":694.306,"text":"好 那就一併都是兩個月把這三件事情放在一起評估給本席好嗎然後去調查是是是好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:35:05.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:35:05.930000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席！","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:35:06.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:35:07.892000+08:00","text":"有請我們何部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-30T11:35:07.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:35:08.232000+08:00","text":"請何部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:35:09.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:35:09.133000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:35:13.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:35:14.334000+08:00","text":"部長辛苦了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:35:16.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:35:28.419000+08:00","text":"其實你們今天的報告也有寫到缺工的幾個主要原因，當然一個是少子化，後面還有包含福利、待遇不符合等，我就簡單從一個小的地方切入。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:35:29.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:35:51.437000+08:00","text":"我想要問一下部長，依照職工福利金條例的規定，職工福利金的保管動用，應由依法組織的工會跟各工廠、或是礦場、或其他企業組織共同設置職工福利委員會負責辦理，我想請教部長的是職工福利金的動支內容有無限制？有。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:35:52.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:35:53.300000+08:00","text":"有嘛，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:35:53.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:35:56.925000+08:00","text":"那請教部長，你認為健康檢查費用應該由誰負擔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:36:01.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:36:04.424000+08:00","text":"雇主負擔。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:36:05.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:36:14.087000+08:00","text":"依照職業安全衛生法第二十條以及勞工健康保護規則第十七條，反正就是雇主要負擔啦！","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:36:14.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:36:28.831000+08:00","text":"但是實務上常常面臨一種情況，其實我們在坊間也有聽到，就是雇主會要求或協議由職工福利金負擔員工的健檢費用，請教部長，這是否已經違法？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:36:31.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:36:31.232000+08:00","text":"是，是違法。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:36:31.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:36:32.573000+08:00","text":"是違法喔！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:36:35.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:36:59.267000+08:00","text":"有鑑於實務上還是有部分公司可能是對法令不熟悉，他就去拗職工福利金去負擔員工的健檢費用，所以我在想這個部分是不是可以請勞動部再發函公告，就是再發函提醒，提醒雇主不要觸法，然後你們後續在檢查部分應該也要再加強。好。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:37:01.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:37:13.870000+08:00","text":"再來就是大缺工潮已經來臨了，並且從人口結構來看，未來問題只會愈來愈嚴重，其實這些在報告中都有寫，我就不再重複。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:37:14.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:37:40.770000+08:00","text":"我想現階段你們應該也是有共識，就是提高各年齡層的勞參率，這會是一個相對比較主要的方式，但是根據主計處的人力運用調查，未就業原因中有五個項目是女性高於男性，我想請教部長，你認為是什麼因素導致女性的勞參率偏低？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:37:41.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:37:44.553000+08:00","text":"因為女性要照顧，不論是育兒或顧老。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:37:45.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:38:27.381000+08:00","text":"對，謝謝部長，你分析得很好，就是基本上要照顧子女、照顧年長的家屬、照顧失能家屬、做家事跟身心障礙等等，也就是照顧以及家庭分工、家務分工會成為損害女性的工作權跟經濟獨立的重要原因，當然這個部分就會衍生出我們女性的時間貧窮、財務貧窮甚至公共參與率低等等的問題，所以基本上，我覺得問題就是女性不是不願意就業，而是這些牽絆跟責任導致她無法就業，結果就是經濟無法獨立，她經濟沒辦法獨立就可能會落入不好的循環。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:38:27.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:38:37.609000+08:00","text":"男性退休之後可能有勞保、勞退，但女性如果沒有工作就不行，所以簡單來講，這是女性的困境。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:38:38.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:39:20.191000+08:00","text":"部長，我們面對這樣的照顧責任跟家務分工，涉及家內的分工部分，並非是用公權力或制度設計可以解決的，但是政府可以在幾個方面上去努力，分別是：一、政府整體服務供給之承諾；二、國家對育有兒童之家庭的承諾；三、公共化兒童照顧服務的普及程度；四、對老年人提供的照顧服務，這是政府可以做的四大方向，雖然這幾年政府也是大力在發展長照或者是0到6歲國家一起養的政策，但我看還是有限啦！","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:39:20.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:39:21.412000+08:00","text":"部長知道原因嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:39:23.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:39:31.876000+08:00","text":"當然，這個可能是提供的服務、他的可進用性也許也是有不友善。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:39:33.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:39:56.761000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯，雖然說是有政策方向，但實際執行上面還是有很多問題，會讓很多政策變成看得到、吃不到或者不好用、很難用，譬如今年你們勞動部推出的彈性育嬰留職停薪試辦計畫，背後的概念很好，但是實際辦理成效是不是很差？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:39:58.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:39:59.832000+08:00","text":"對，那是試辦，確實……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:39:59.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:02.973000+08:00","text":"七成六的試辦單位掛零，對不對？部長。對。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:02.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:03.714000+08:00","text":"原因是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:03.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:04.394000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:04.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:16.039000+08:00","text":"其實臺灣企業的特性，因為是以日跟小時為單位，尤其現在缺工嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:16.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:26.664000+08:00","text":"它的替代人力難找，如果是像塊狀的育嬰留停是6個月的，那個倒是成效很好，而且男性的申請也是達到新高。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:26.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:31.205000+08:00","text":"所以我剛剛說這個計畫本身滿糟糕的，就是說成效是不是很差？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:31.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:32.265000+08:00","text":"這是你們自己統計嘛！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:32.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:32.685000+08:00","text":"報紙都沒有，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:32.685000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:33.685000+08:00","text":"委員，我跟您解釋，塊狀的育嬰留停成效很好……好啦！","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:32.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:32.745000+08:00","text":"簡單來講……","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:32.745000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:33.745000+08:00","text":"可是彈性的部分真的是不好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:32.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:36.706000+08:00","text":"沒關係，簡單來講，這個狀況就是說基本上會去用這個試辦計畫的員工，就是沒有請比較長的育嬰假的，對不對？對。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:36.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:37.526000+08:00","text":"那他又已經回到職場了，對不對？對。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:37.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:40:52.812000+08:00","text":"所以需要用那種短期育嬰留職停薪的員工，其實就是比較少數啦！對。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:40:53.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:41:12.408000+08:00","text":"再來就是小孩剛上幼兒園或是到托兒所之後，因為環境的差異，其實有時候會有臨時的突發狀況，他可能比較有請假的需求，所以我在想的是，是不是應該要把這種短期的彈性育嬰假適用對象，因為本來是0到3歲！","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:41:13.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:41:17.231000+08:00","text":"我們應該要把它擴大到6歲，是不是比較符合家長的需求？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:41:17.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:41:23.817000+08:00","text":"部長，因為既然0到6歲國家一起養，是否也應該在彈性育嬰假上面擴大為0到6歲？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:41:23.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:41:24.558000+08:00","text":"委員是指彈性育嬰假擴大為0到6歲，可是彈性育嬰假……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:41:24.558000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:41:33.337000+08:00","text":"我知道，這個部分就要涉及修法啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:41:33.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:41:33.797000+08:00","text":"性平法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:41:34.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:41:35.398000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:41:35.398000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:41:36.398000+08:00","text":"那個要修，對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:41:35.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:41:36.879000+08:00","text":"這個要涉及修法，這就是我後面要講的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:41:36.879000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:41:37.879000+08:00","text":"可是委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:41:37.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:41:47.226000+08:00","text":"所以它涉及到修法，我只是想說畢竟你的政策目的就是希望可以打造我剛剛說的這四大方向嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:41:47.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:41:52.950000+08:00","text":"所以這個修法我倒覺得是不是應該要去討論，也就是去修性別平等工作法第十六條，從3歲放寬到6歲？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:41:56.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:04.737000+08:00","text":"本席跟其他委員也有這樣的修法提案，我是想要請教部長，是不是可以開始評估性平法第十六條放寬年齡的事宜？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:05.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:08.579000+08:00","text":"因為站在家長的角度，這樣是比較適用的吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:10.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:12.840000+08:00","text":"委員，我們來評估好不好？對啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:13.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:16.301000+08:00","text":"我的要求就是說是不是可以請你們評估？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:16.301000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:17.301000+08:00","text":"我們來評估研究。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:16.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:17.741000+08:00","text":"請問你們大概要多久的時間評估？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:17.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:18.041000+08:00","text":"2個月給您，可以嗎？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:21.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:22.916000+08:00","text":"2個月評估可不可以這樣做，是不是？是。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:23.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:24.697000+08:00","text":"好，2個月。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:25.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:26.297000+08:00","text":"我是覺得2個月有點久耶！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:26.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:28.298000+08:00","text":"1個月可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:28.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:33.040000+08:00","text":"這應該是滿快的事情，因為我們是希望幫這些家長來推動。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:37.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:40.455000+08:00","text":"委員，這個社會共識真的也是要凝聚一下。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:40.455000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:41.496000+08:00","text":"好，那就2個月。","quality":0},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:41.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:44.539000+08:00","text":"因為光彈性育嬰留停，那個意見就很多了。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:44.539000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:45.539000+08:00","text":"好，那就2個月，好不好？2個月。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:42:44.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:42:49.202000+08:00","text":"那家中育有小孩的也是希望家庭照顧假可以延長或是放寬彈性工時，這個是比較複雜，但是我還是想要請教部長，有沒有可能家庭照顧假也從7天放寬到14天？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:01.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:43:05.794000+08:00","text":"因為這跟我們喊的其他國定假日不同，這是有需求的哦！","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:06.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:43:07.735000+08:00","text":"你可以有這樣的放寬，可是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:07.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:43:11.856000+08:00","text":"委員指的家庭照顧假是顧……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:14.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:43:15.117000+08:00","text":"簡單來講，我做一個小結啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:15.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:43:18.998000+08:00","text":"我剛剛講的部分請你們一併去評估。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:18.998000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:43:19.998000+08:00","text":"那個前段是一樣的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:19.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:43:19.819000+08:00","text":"一併評估，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:19.819000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:43:20.819000+08:00","text":"好，我們一起。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:20.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:43:25.761000+08:00","text":"無論是彈性育嬰假，其實最重要的還有家庭照顧假，就是剛剛講的嘛！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:26.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:43:31.119000+08:00","text":"我前面講的這些數據跟你講的這些東西，其實部長你也都知道，你也都知道嘛！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:31.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:43:35.900000+08:00","text":"但是你有沒有更細地去做或是站在他們的角度去思考？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:35.900000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:43:36.900000+08:00","text":"好，我們一起評估好嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:43:36.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:44:05.870000+08:00","text":"所以你們站在家長的角度去思考這個政策，性別平等法第十六條的育嬰留職停薪從3歲放寬到6歲，第二十條的家庭照顧假如果從7天放寬到14天，我覺得整體來講，它是符合現行0到6歲國家一起養的政策，更可以減輕父母職的照顧責任，所以這是一開始我在講女性的部分，同時也是可以讓女性的勞動力釋放的好方法，你前面不是也說嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:44:05.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:44:19.900000+08:00","text":"你們希望各年齡層或者是各性別的勞參率可以提高，我提的這個概念就是這樣，這是有脈絡的，所以我覺得這部分是不是可以請勞動部儘速評估可行性？好。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:44:20.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:44:25.809000+08:00","text":"而且也希望是不是可以提報行政院的版本，以示我們行政部門的決心？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:44:26.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:44:31.478000+08:00","text":"就是評估之後，因為我覺得這個東西就是站在女性的勞動參與，剛剛前面都講得很清楚。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:44:33.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:44:37.403000+08:00","text":"最後一個，產假的部分也是，因為我們都圍繞著這個主題在講嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:44:39.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:44:58.361000+08:00","text":"前面我也有說了，你今天的報告有講，少子化是缺工一個很大的原因，基本上少子化長期以來也都是國安的問題，所以我想要問一下部長，如果產假、育嬰假、家庭照顧假要增加，可以比較有一條龍的照顧，是不是更好呢？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:45:00.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:45:02.130000+08:00","text":"這個部分是不是也可以一併評估？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:45:02.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:45:03.772000+08:00","text":"一條龍，您是說產假、育嬰假、照顧……","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:45:04.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:45:10.017000+08:00","text":"就是說產假、育嬰假、家庭照顧假，這個是不是一起進去思考呢？","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:45:10.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:45:11.899000+08:00","text":"我們合併評估給您，好嗎？對啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:45:12.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:45:20.406000+08:00","text":"因為我覺得這個不是我們國家有先例，其實其他國家在應對少子化都有這個部分，所以爭取產假並不是隨口說說。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:45:20.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:45:25.991000+08:00","text":"之前有好幾次專報都提到，還有之前你也有一份報告，將近6成女性覺得育嬰假不夠嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:45:25.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:45:26.011000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:45:29.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:45:41.518000+08:00","text":"其實我也要說，以往都覺得要對標歐美國家，我現在給您看一個新聞，連鄰近的中國大陸都有感於人口漸漸邁入老化，他們在推所謂3胎啊！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:45:42.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:45:56.785000+08:00","text":"我想要講的是這個，他們的全境產假是98天起跳，北上廣三大都市是98加60，是158天，廣東省全境更是98加80，是178天啊！","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:45:57.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:46:10.291000+08:00","text":"所以我剛剛講的這些訴求不是隨便亂喊，其實很多人在做這件事情，如果你們這麼消極，會讓我們覺得你是不是真的沒有這麼想要改善生育率？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:46:10.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:46:12.252000+08:00","text":"我想要請問部長怎麼看？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:46:12.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:46:15.013000+08:00","text":"我是希望這個是不是可以好好地評估？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"何部長佩珊","start":"2024-10-30T11:46:16.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:46:17.094000+08:00","text":"我們一起來評估好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:46:18.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:46:24.302000+08:00","text":"好，那就一併都是2個月，把這三件事情放在一起評估給本席，好嗎？好。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:46:24.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:46:25.404000+08:00","text":"還要去調查。是。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2024-10-30T11:46:26.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-10-30T11:46:26.306000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-30T11:46:26.806000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:46:29.091714+08:00","text":"好，謝謝廖偉翔委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-10-30T11:46:29.391714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-10-30T11:46:32.534571+08:00","text":"接下來請張雅琳委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":894,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（11時35分）謝謝主席！有請我們何部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長辛苦了。其實你們今天的報告也有寫到缺工的幾個主要原因，當然一個是少子化，後面還有包含福利、待遇不符合等，我就簡單從一個小的地方切入。我想要問一下部長，依照職工福利金條例的規定，職工福利金的保管動用，應由依法組織的工會跟各工廠、或是礦場、或其他企業組織共同設置職工福利委員會負責辦理，我想請教部長的是職工福利金的動支內容有無限制？"],["何部長佩珊：有。"],["廖委員偉翔：有嘛，對不對？那請教部長，你認為健康檢查費用應該由誰負擔？"],["何部長佩珊：雇主負擔。"],["廖委員偉翔：依照職業安全衛生法第二十條以及勞工健康保護規則第十七條，反正就是雇主要負擔啦！但是實務上常常面臨一種情況，其實我們在坊間也有聽到，就是雇主會要求或協議由職工福利金負擔員工的健檢費用，請教部長，這是否已經違法？"],["何部長佩珊：是，是違法。"],["廖委員偉翔：是違法喔！有鑑於實務上還是有部分公司可能是對法令不熟悉，他就去拗職工福利金去負擔員工的健檢費用，所以我在想這個部分是不是可以請勞動部再發函公告，就是再發函提醒，提醒雇主不要觸法，然後你們後續在檢查部分應該也要再加強。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["廖委員偉翔：再來就是大缺工潮已經來臨了，並且從人口結構來看，未來問題只會愈來愈嚴重，其實這些在報告中都有寫，我就不再重複。我想現階段你們應該也是有共識，就是提高各年齡層的勞參率，這會是一個相對比較主要的方式，但是根據主計處的人力運用調查，未就業原因中有五個項目是女性高於男性，我想請教部長，你認為是什麼因素導致女性的勞參率偏低？"],["何部長佩珊：因為女性要照顧，不論是育兒或顧老。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，謝謝部長，你分析得很好，就是基本上要照顧子女、照顧年長的家屬、照顧失能家屬、做家事跟身心障礙等等，也就是照顧以及家庭分工、家務分工會成為損害女性的工作權跟經濟獨立的重要原因，當然這個部分就會衍生出我們女性的時間貧窮、財務貧窮甚至公共參與率低等等的問題，所以基本上，我覺得問題就是女性不是不願意就業，而是這些牽絆跟責任導致她無法就業，結果就是經濟無法獨立，她經濟沒辦法獨立就可能會落入不好的循環。男性退休之後可能有勞保、勞退，但女性如果沒有工作就不行，所以簡單來講，這是女性的困境。部長，我們面對這樣的照顧責任跟家務分工，涉及家內的分工部分，並非是用公權力或制度設計可以解決的，但是政府可以在幾個方面上去努力，分別是：一、政府整體服務供給之承諾；二、國家對育有兒童之家庭的承諾；三、公共化兒童照顧服務的普及程度；四、對老年人提供的照顧服務，這是政府可以做的四大方向，雖然這幾年政府也是大力在發展長照或者是0到6歲國家一起養的政策，但我看還是有限啦！部長知道原因嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：當然，這個可能是提供的服務、他的可進用性也許也是有不友善。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，沒錯，雖然說是有政策方向，但實際執行上面還是有很多問題，會讓很多政策變成看得到、吃不到或者不好用、很難用，譬如今年你們勞動部推出的彈性育嬰留職停薪試辦計畫，背後的概念很好，但是實際辦理成效是不是很差？"],["何部長佩珊：對，那是試辦，確實……"],["廖委員偉翔：七成六的試辦單位掛零，對不對？部長。"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：原因是什麼？我想請教一下。"],["何部長佩珊：其實臺灣企業的特性，因為是以日跟小時為單位，尤其現在缺工嘛！它的替代人力難找，如果是像塊狀的育嬰留停是6個月的，那個倒是成效很好，而且男性的申請也是達到新高。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以我剛剛說這個計畫本身滿糟糕的，就是說成效是不是很差？這是你們自己統計嘛！報紙都沒有，對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我跟您解釋，塊狀的育嬰留停成效很好……"],["廖委員偉翔：好啦！簡單來講……"],["何部長佩珊：可是彈性的部分真的是不好。"],["廖委員偉翔：沒關係，簡單來講，這個狀況就是說基本上會去用這個試辦計畫的員工，就是沒有請比較長的育嬰假的，對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：那他又已經回到職場了，對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以需要用那種短期育嬰留職停薪的員工，其實就是比較少數啦！"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：再來就是小孩剛上幼兒園或是到托兒所之後，因為環境的差異，其實有時候會有臨時的突發狀況，他可能比較有請假的需求，所以我在想的是，是不是應該要把這種短期的彈性育嬰假適用對象，因為本來是0到3歲！我們應該要把它擴大到6歲，是不是比較符合家長的需求？部長，因為既然0到6歲國家一起養，是否也應該在彈性育嬰假上面擴大為0到6歲？"],["何部長佩珊：委員是指彈性育嬰假擴大為0到6歲，可是彈性育嬰假……"],["廖委員偉翔：我知道，這個部分就要涉及修法啦！"],["何部長佩珊：性平法。"],["廖委員偉翔：對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：那個要修，對。"],["廖委員偉翔：這個要涉及修法，這就是我後面要講的。"],["何部長佩珊：可是委員……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以它涉及到修法，我只是想說畢竟你的政策目的就是希望可以打造我剛剛說的這四大方向嘛！所以這個修法我倒覺得是不是應該要去討論，也就是去修性別平等工作法第十六條，從3歲放寬到6歲？本席跟其他委員也有這樣的修法提案，我是想要請教部長，是不是可以開始評估性平法第十六條放寬年齡的事宜？因為站在家長的角度，這樣是比較適用的吧！"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們來評估好不好？"],["廖委員偉翔：對啊！我的要求就是說是不是可以請你們評估？"],["何部長佩珊：我們來評估研究。"],["廖委員偉翔：請問你們大概要多久的時間評估？"],["何部長佩珊：2個月給您，可以嗎？"],["廖委員偉翔：2個月評估可不可以這樣做，是不是？"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，2個月。我是覺得2個月有點久耶！1個月可以嗎？這應該是滿快的事情，因為我們是希望幫這些家長來推動。"],["何部長佩珊：委員，這個社會共識真的也是要凝聚一下。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，那就2個月。"],["何部長佩珊：因為光彈性育嬰留停，那個意見就很多了。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，那就2個月，好不好？2個月。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝。"],["廖委員偉翔：那家中育有小孩的也是希望家庭照顧假可以延長或是放寬彈性工時，這個是比較複雜，但是我還是想要請教部長，有沒有可能家庭照顧假也從7天放寬到14天？因為這跟我們喊的其他國定假日不同，這是有需求的哦！你可以有這樣的放寬，可是……"],["何部長佩珊：委員指的家庭照顧假是顧……"],["廖委員偉翔：簡單來講，我做一個小結啦！我剛剛講的部分請你們一併去評估。"],["何部長佩珊：那個前段是一樣的。"],["廖委員偉翔：一併評估，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：好，我們一起。"],["廖委員偉翔：無論是彈性育嬰假，其實最重要的還有家庭照顧假，就是剛剛講的嘛！我前面講的這些數據跟你講的這些東西，其實部長你也都知道，你也都知道嘛！但是你有沒有更細地去做或是站在他們的角度去思考？"],["何部長佩珊：好，我們一起評估好嗎？"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你們站在家長的角度去思考這個政策，性別平等法第十六條的育嬰留職停薪從3歲放寬到6歲，第二十條的家庭照顧假如果從7天放寬到14天，我覺得整體來講，它是符合現行0到6歲國家一起養的政策，更可以減輕父母職的照顧責任，所以這是一開始我在講女性的部分，同時也是可以讓女性的勞動力釋放的好方法，你前面不是也說嗎？你們希望各年齡層或者是各性別的勞參率可以提高，我提的這個概念就是這樣，這是有脈絡的，所以我覺得這部分是不是可以請勞動部儘速評估可行性？"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["廖委員偉翔：而且也希望是不是可以提報行政院的版本，以示我們行政部門的決心？就是評估之後，因為我覺得這個東西就是站在女性的勞動參與，剛剛前面都講得很清楚。","最後一個，產假的部分也是，因為我們都圍繞著這個主題在講嘛！前面我也有說了，你今天的報告有講，少子化是缺工一個很大的原因，基本上少子化長期以來也都是國安的問題，所以我想要問一下部長，如果產假、育嬰假、家庭照顧假要增加，可以比較有一條龍的照顧，是不是更好呢？這個部分是不是也可以一併評估？"],["何部長佩珊：一條龍，您是說產假、育嬰假、照顧……"],["廖委員偉翔：就是說產假、育嬰假、家庭照顧假，這個是不是一起進去思考呢？"],["何部長佩珊：我們合併評估給您，好嗎？"],["廖委員偉翔：對啊！因為我覺得這個不是我們國家有先例，其實其他國家在應對少子化都有這個部分，所以爭取產假並不是隨口說說。之前有好幾次專報都提到，還有之前你也有一份報告，將近6成女性覺得育嬰假不夠嘛！對不對？其實我也要說，以往都覺得要對標歐美國家，我現在給您看一個新聞，連鄰近的中國大陸都有感於人口漸漸邁入老化，他們在推所謂3胎啊！我想要講的是這個，他們的全境產假是98天起跳，北上廣三大都市是98加60，是158天，廣東省全境更是98加80，是178天啊！所以我剛剛講的這些訴求不是隨便亂喊，其實很多人在做這件事情，如果你們這麼消極，會讓我們覺得你是不是真的沒有這麼想要改善生育率？我想要請問部長怎麼看？我是希望這個是不是可以好好地評估？"],["何部長佩珊：我們一起來評估好嗎？"],["廖委員偉翔：好，那就一併都是2個月，把這三件事情放在一起評估給本席，好嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["廖委員偉翔：還要去調查。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝廖偉翔委員。","接下來請張雅琳委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-6","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","王育敏","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","王正旭","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林楚茵","陳亭妃","吳宗憲","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","廖偉翔","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林淑芬","羅廷瑋","李柏毅","劉建國","楊曜","陳瑩","吳春城","涂權吉"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2024-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1139201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"請勞動部部長就「我國全時職位缺工概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139201_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}