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很多SRF的燃料它這個在應用上"},{"start":104.895,"end":126.551,"text":"有很多還是產生戴奧欣你知道有這種情況嗎?有那所以我們台灣要但我本席知道這個在第10屆的這個就2020年開始第10屆的立法院就開始在推那推到目前您應該有接到很多的反應、抗議跟爭議吧?"},{"start":128.524,"end":129.586,"text":"那本席告訴你為什麼?"},{"start":139.212,"end":167.681,"text":"本席的選區啊這個就聽到地方上有人說啊有一個地方是不是偷偷蓋焚化爐怎麼那麼臭然後呢這個那個味道常常有塑膠味燃燒金屬的毒氣味然後令人感到噁心想吐頭痛那您當然知道這個東西一定是地方民意代表他找環保局他們在那邊弄弄了很久"},{"start":168.661,"end":187.277,"text":"大家還是搞不清楚只知道那一個廠會發出這些臭味後來也有人想說跟我們反映我們就去了解以後他就是用SRF的這個燃料的一個職場那這個情況呢讓我們發現我們台灣已經在用廢發電了現在要我們用廢來減碳嗎"},{"start":194.602,"end":195.623,"text":"所以SRF這種燃料棒"},{"start":218.126,"end":235.773,"text":"他在燃燒的時候不會產生惡臭．不會產生有毒物質．包含像戴奧辛．他不會產生對人體健康．生命的危害嗎．這一點部長您回答我如果規範上面．大家都follow這個規範．他是不會的那不是啊 那他"},{"start":240.39,"end":241.611,"text":"所以現在才聽到有民意代表跟你反映?"},{"start":264.851,"end":276.101,"text":"我今年5月才來啊,所以...那現在已經11月了對,所以我跟您報告,這個問題...所以這半年您都不知道SRF有產生這麼大的問題那個不是我主管的"},{"start":281.581,"end":294.767,"text":"委員您關心那個部分我也知道您講的是哪一家職場我們今年6月到9月我們有就全國所有的製造廠48家、使用廠18家全面的總體檢那我們有提供一些體檢的一些建議給他們"},{"start":296.408,"end":302.23,"text":"回過頭來我們自己也會加強這個品質的規範以及排氣標準的那這樣不行啊你們不能發生問題再重新來提解跟委員報告他其實他在產出之前你就要確認當然有啊當然有剛剛委員所關心的代耗性的部分我們的標準就是0.1耐克那這個部分也是歐盟的標準我們希望都不會產生代耗性啊你還有你還有你只要給他一個空間那這個這個標準是國際的標準"},{"start":326.657,"end":340.896,"text":"我可以選擇不要這樣傷害人體的這個物質嗎?是,那我們也希望說生產生活的過程都不要產生廢棄物但是沒有辦法,垃圾一定會產生我們源頭要減量但一旦產生了我們用好的方法去處理它"},{"start":342.419,"end":346.882,"text":"本席接獲民眾的陳情就是他怎麼存放在那裡東北季風一吹味道就那麼重"},{"start":368.159,"end":389.959,"text":"你們有沒有到過現場?跟委員報告當然有啊就是說他有一些是原料的部分燃料的部分他必須要去做覆蓋所以SRF燃料只要產生出來放在那就會有錯位啊?是跟委員報告這個我們台灣真的能用嗎?我們也跟地方政府保局一起到現場去監督過了有問題我們會請他改善"},{"start":395.486,"end":419.419,"text":"委員如果你對這個部分有願意進一步了解,我們也可以安排委員來看。好,我真的希望你們,這個不是只有這一家,可是你SRF你為了要在台灣大量運用,真的不要減了碳,結果我們全民的健康賠進去。當然不會,它一定是在我們的健康之下,有的話環保局就會告發,那它就要改善。"},{"start":421.886,"end":429.772,"text":"現在已經發生了 真的不要在冷氣房來做任何的決策跟判斷你實際到哪裡看過?"},{"start":433.513,"end":454.526,"text":"你講那家廠我就看過然後呢你覺得OK?我們有看過那目前它的連線SIMS連線就是剛剛講戴耀星的全區物質是立即要連線跟地方環保局不是你不要一直講理論現在那我請部長和次長哪一天來站在那邊我們一起在那邊站一個小時不要戴口罩試試看好不好好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1266,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（12時51分）謝謝主席，本席有請郭部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：部長好。部長，今天要談SRF發電廠，你本身對SRF瞭解嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：跟委員報告，我不是那麼瞭解。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是那麼瞭解？那我們可以用嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：現在大家有很多的問題，我本人不是這個方面的專家，但是我們團隊可以回答你的問題……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒關係！我們現在用的很多東西，包括生活上用的，我都不是專家，但是要用之前要確認吧？"],["郭部長智輝：所以委員你要問的問題，我的同事裡面應該都有專家可以回答。"],["徐委員欣瑩：請教部長，你覺得這種所謂的固體再生燃料（SRF）OK嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：這個現在是國際的趨勢，而且它是減碳的，相對於其他的，它是減碳的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，所以為了減碳，我們可以犧牲其他的嗎？你要減碳，其他也要兼顧嘛！所以部長，你知道燃燒什麼東西會產生戴奧辛嗎？不知道？沒關係，不要浪費時間，含氯，經過高溫催化會產生戴奧辛……"],["郭部長智輝：就是不完全燃燒，不完全燃燒就會產生戴奧辛。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你知道現在有很多SRF燃料在應用上還是會產生戴奧辛，你知道有這種情況嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席知道這個在第10屆2020年立法院就開始在推，推到目前你應該有接到很多的反映、抗議跟爭議吧？"],["郭部長智輝：好像沒有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：真的啊？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：桃園的廠，他們不是也在抗議嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：到目前為止，好像就桃園在抗議而已。"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席告訴你為什麼，在本席的選區就聽到地方上有人說有一個地方是不是偷偷蓋焚化爐，怎麼那麼臭，常常有塑膠味、燃燒金屬的毒氣味，令人感到噁心、想吐、頭痛。我們當然知道這個東西一定是地方民意代表找環保局，他們在那邊弄了很久，結果大家還是搞不清楚，只知道那一個廠會發出這些臭味，後來也有人跟我們反映，我們去瞭解以後，才知道它就是用SRF燃料的紙廠，這個情況讓我們發現臺灣已經在用肺發電了，現在要我們用肺來減碳嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：當然不是啦！如果委員看到有這樣的現象，歡迎跟我們聯絡，我想政府不會視而不見，現在有這樣一個嚴重現象，怎麼可能讓它持續發生，我想你我都不願意，他們也是我們的鄉親，所以我們一定要愛護他。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以SRF這種燃料棒在燃燒的時候不會產生惡臭，不會產生有毒物質包含像戴奧辛，不會產生對人體健康、生命的危害嗎？這點請部長回答我。"],["郭部長智輝：如果在規範上面大家都follow這個規範，它是不會的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是啊！它覺得它follow規範出來的產品，你們整個嚴謹度及控管度夠不夠？"],["郭部長智輝：我們就是要monitoring這個狀況，我們要監控……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你過去以來有沒有確實在monitoring？"],["郭部長智輝：過去我沒有參與，不過今後我會深入地瞭解這件事情。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在才聽到有民意代表跟你反映嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有，我今年5月才來，所以……"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在已經11月了。"],["郭部長智輝：所以我跟你報告，這個問題……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以這半年你都不知道SRF有產生這麼大的問題嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：那個不是我主管的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是環境部嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：不是我主管的，我是不是請環境部跟你報告一下？"],["徐委員欣瑩：可以。"],["沈次長志修：委員，你關心的那個部分，我也知道你講的是哪一家紙廠，我們今年6月到9月有就全國所有的製造廠48家、使用廠18家進行全面總體檢，我們有提供一些體檢的建議給他們，回過頭來，我們自己也會加強品質的規範以及排氣標準的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：這樣不行啊！你們不能發生問題再重新來體檢，其實它在產出之前，你就要確認了。"],["沈次長志修：當然有，剛剛委員所關心的戴奧辛部分，我們的標準就是用0.1奈克，這個部分也是歐盟的標準。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們希望都不會產生戴奧辛，你只要給它一個空間，這是危害人體……"],["沈次長志修：這個標準是國際的標準，它也不能超標。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我可以選擇不要這樣傷害人體的物質。"],["沈次長志修：我們也希望生產、生活的過程都不要產生廢棄物，但是沒有辦法，垃圾一定會產生，我們要從源頭減量，如果一旦產生了，我們用好的方法去處理。"],["徐委員欣瑩：次長，我們希望整個SRF的產生、設廠要嚴謹嚴格監督，包含原料來源、生產過程、產品品質以及存放。本席接獲民眾陳情，就是它怎麼存放在那裡，東北季風一吹，味道會那麼重？"],["沈次長志修：這個就是我們要……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們有沒有到過現場？"],["沈次長志修：跟委員報告，當然有，有一些是原料的部分、燃料的部分，它必須要去做覆蓋……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以SRF燃料只要產生出來，放在那裡就會有臭味嗎？"],["沈次長志修：跟委員報告……"],["徐委員欣瑩：這個我們臺灣真的能用嗎？我在第10屆來不及監督……"],["沈次長志修：我們也跟地方政府環保局一起到現場去監督過，有問題我們會請它改善。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我真的覺得你們的品管有問題。"],["沈次長志修：委員，如果你對這個部分有願意進一步瞭解，我們也可以安排委員來看。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是只有這一家……"],["沈次長志修：我知道。"],["徐委員欣瑩：可是你為了要在臺灣大量運用SRF，真的不要減了碳，結果我們全民的健康賠進去。"],["沈次長志修：當然不會，它一定是在我們的監控之下。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在就發生了！"],["沈次長志修：有的話，環保局就會告發，它就要改善，民眾的陳情我們有注意到。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在已經發生了，真的不要在冷氣房做任何的決策跟判斷。"],["沈次長志修：不會、不會，我們實地去看過了，謝謝。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你實地到哪裡看過？"],["沈次長志修：你講的那家廠我就看過。"],["徐委員欣瑩：然後呢？你覺得OK？"],["沈次長志修：我們有看過，目前它的連線，就是剛剛講戴奧辛的前驅物質是立即要連線跟地方環保局……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你不要一直講理論！"],["沈次長志修：實務上就是這樣監控。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，我請部長和次長哪一天來站在那邊，我們一起在那邊站1小時，不要戴口罩試試看，好不好？謝謝。"],["沈次長志修：謝謝。"],["主席：部長、次長，它的原料就是垃圾，垃圾就會有惡臭，你們要注意這個問題。","現在請高金素梅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-9","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","黃健豪","邱志偉","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","蘇巧慧","黃國昌","羅智強","蔡易餘","王育敏","徐欣瑩","高金素梅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈伯洋","羅廷瑋","陳冠廷","涂權吉","黃珊珊","張嘉郡","陳超明"],"page_start":233,"meetingDate":["2024-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1139102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139102_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部部長、環境部首長就「我國\n對設置 SRF 發電廠之規劃評估，及設置 SRF 發電廠對我國環境之影響」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139102_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}