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主席請到何部長請何部長"},{"start":17.526,"end":46.438,"text":"委員好部長好部長我們今天討論全時職缺缺工的問題所以有一個問題我想要先先釐清一下就是我看我們最低工資呢長期以來就是時薪高於月薪是那有沒有辦法把月薪提高到到到時薪的的總和怎麼算呢就是就是時薪乘以8再乘以"},{"start":47.839,"end":65.277,"text":"22天來當作最低工資因為我覺得這個問題不解決全職的職缺缺工不會改善因為我用part-time領的錢"},{"start":68.015,"end":95.002,"text":"一樣的工時是比最低工資高的 這個可能很多人會不願意投入全職的職缺 這個部長有什麼看法?是 非常同意委員的提醒 這也是我們最低工資審議委員我們今年有很熱烈的討論這個問題 那沒有成功的原因是什麼?你們假如很熱烈討論"},{"start":97.924,"end":123.036,"text":"因為明年都已經公佈了嗎?還是有一定的差距嗎?倒是我們現在再慢慢把它拉齊啦。你這樣明年可能要差到4千7百多。是。就是因為我們今年的幅度我們就把它拉到跟那個甚至稍低一點。比那個月薪的條幅稍低一點。我們再來慢慢的會拉齊這兩邊。不是。"},{"start":127.947,"end":139.238,"text":"剛剛劉建國委員也提到就是求職者不願意倒職的因素裡面有超過60%是對待遇有意見"},{"start":144.358,"end":170.399,"text":"為什麼是把時薪的條幅拉低而不是把月薪的條幅拉高部長剛剛講的是你們討論的時候想要讓他趨近接近嘛那有兩個方法你們為什麼會選擇拉低時薪的條幅而不是拉高月薪的條幅"},{"start":174.054,"end":183.523,"text":"這個就是光是部長這樣子回答就表示臺灣的要脫離地心的環境非常非常的困難"},{"start":185.23,"end":212.498,"text":"不是委員這可能我要再解釋更清楚一點這個是我們整體會去調高最低工資會逐漸的往上走的一定都是往上調可是呢月薪的部分他能不能一次就去拉超過這麼高這是一個最低工資審議委員會必須討論的問題也不是我能決定的這個要整個大家有共識才行啦"},{"start":212.938,"end":239.38,"text":"而他條：如果是那個幅度一下子太高喔整個社會能不能承受也是問題對企業主可能沒有辦法承受這個我可以接受我現在是說為什麼審議委員會有意識到全職的最低工資跟時薪是有差距的那在審議的時候"},{"start":241.221,"end":261.338,"text":"是把時薪的條幅降低而不是把全薪的條幅拉高懂我意思嗎?因為這個是部長剛剛回答的喔是是是委員我剛剛要再跟您補充你聊口誤你就說口誤沒有關係我是可以接受的"},{"start":262.158,"end":272.083,"text":"當然啦我實習那個部分的條幅其實是去掉尾數啦他倒並不是說我刻意去把它降低啦因為台灣的薪資確實是"},{"start":278.366,"end":294.14,"text":"是偏低啦。也因為偏低所以才我們今天才討論這個問題啦。是是是。按照勞動部最新的調查就是到今年7月底全國缺工長達半年找不到職缺的有6.6萬。是。"},{"start":298.732,"end":320.26,"text":"按照行業別,長達半年找不到的依序有製造業、批發業、批發零售業、營建、旅宿業、社會工作服務業。請問部長,上述業別增才半年沒有辦法補足的主要原因是什麼?"},{"start":322.028,"end":341.871,"text":"嗯對其實當然他這也是超過半年啦齁超過半年都一直沒有辦法待遇跟勞動條件都是原因啦一定都是主要原因好那對所以您去看齁那我就直接問那你你們到底有沒有解決的方案"},{"start":343.921,"end":364.143,"text":"我看部長在回答原因的時候速度很快那你們有沒有因應的方案?懂我意思嗎?因為你們肩負著全國勞工的工作環境工作條件等等的照顧這是勞動部成立最大的宗旨"},{"start":365.044,"end":377.271,"text":"包括職業訓練讓他在職場上可以一直精進讓他取得更好的薪資這個都是你們的工作那原因你知道你有沒有因應的方案"},{"start":380.401,"end":397.825,"text":"對我因應的方案當然委員就是我現在最大的困難我想是我們會發生在產業端這邊對所以我們必須要有效的跨部會整合然後看能不能把這個我們比如我們現在主動在做學校部長我的理解我這樣子講就是說產業界那邊應該要比較顧慮的是經濟部"},{"start":406.219,"end":427.035,"text":"是經濟部那我現在是說你站在勞動部的立場你怎麼因應長期缺工然後低薪的現象因為跨部會整合就是這樣子嘛勞動部有勞動部維護勞工權益的政策方向"},{"start":428.137,"end":433.424,"text":"那經濟部有經濟部扶植並且確保產業持續發展的"},{"start":439.827,"end":464.366,"text":"的責任那兩個部會再去做溝通整合出來一個讓企業可以永續發展讓勞工的薪資可以提高讓勞工的就業市場就業環境工作環境就業市場可以更好的政策我現在是問你你們有沒有這一方面的政策"},{"start":465.47,"end":473.575,"text":"是我們就是當然我們比如我們訓練人我們執訓人你們執訓人你們部長你知道參加政府辦理的執訓的參與人數也逐年在下降你知道嗎"},{"start":483.22,"end":496.153,"text":"是沒錯。那個疫情期間下降蠻多的。疫情過了這一兩年跟疫情前有回升嗎?有回升到疫情前嗎?有嗎?"},{"start":500.629,"end":516.426,"text":"好跟委員報告我們現在因為疫情我這個就已經跳過好多題了是是是跟委員報告我們現在職業訓練現在就是說對於這個重點產業跟部位跟地方我們在合作現在訓練其實每年逐年在增加一直在增加"},{"start":517.166,"end":534.493,"text":"第2個就是剛剛委員提到就是說我們對於那個很多這個長期缺工這一個部分我們其實現在在應對這樣的一個議題上其實我們就是為他們也現在有做一些量身的訂做就是一些專案的一些沒有的機制那針對他的一個條件上我們也提供相關的 署長時間的關係我問一個問題這個訓練增加"},{"start":540.211,"end":566.719,"text":"來接受質詢的人增加到底對於投入就業市場之間有沒有成正比?懂我意思嗎?你們會去做後續的追蹤嗎?跟委員報告,我們追蹤有三個指標,第一個就訊漏就業率第二個是關聯性,第三個是他的薪資條件有沒有提升,這三個我們大概都會有相關的評估"},{"start":567.915,"end":595.696,"text":"那我現在是問有沒有效果啊你這三個指標倒是下的不錯啦只是說到底來訓練跟他的就業之間有沒有正面的提升啊委員報告這個我們其實在訓後就業率其實每年都有在提升有在成長那這部分其實我們也可以提供給委員參考訓後就業率有在成長那署長"},{"start":597.197,"end":604.082,"text":"應該也要去關心看看就是就業了以後有沒有因為參加勞動部的質詢薪資獲得滿足啦好不好好謝謝部長謝謝主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1282,"blocks":[["楊委員曜：（13時14分）謝謝主席，請何部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["楊委員曜：部長好。部長，我們今天討論全時職位缺工的問題，所以我想要先釐清一個問題，長期以來我們的最低工資就是時薪高於月薪，有沒有辦法把月薪提高到時薪的總和？怎麼算呢？就是把時薪乘以8再乘以22天作為最低工資。我覺得這個問題不解決的話，全職職位缺工的問題不會改善，因為一樣工時擔任part 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