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莫分身勿希望 夾夾審查 夾夾通過您聽得懂我的客家話嗎?"},{"start":368.847,"end":395.884,"text":"一百分謝謝谷主委這是我們四線腔的客語客語這一次如果我們的預算沒有通過客庄地方創生13.5億就受影響了這是客家青年的期盼下一頁我要用原住民族的語言而且非常少見的鄒族語來表達原民朋友的心聲"},{"start":398.78,"end":400.583,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．吳思瑤"},{"start":421.825,"end":429.93,"text":"這也是原民的青年,我們看到原民的青年最近在串聯。他們不希望部分在野的委員拿原住民族進法補償的預算來作為"},{"start":433.797,"end":452.67,"text":"政治的犧牲品原民的年輕朋友也在反省也在抵抗同樣的原鄉產業發展如果預算沒有通過一樣十多億沒有辦法支應來再來我要用新著名語我辦公室的同仁來自於越南"},{"start":469.529,"end":482.017,"text":"新住民的朋友如果總預算沒有通過新住民族的教育預算不管是子女或者是新住民都會受到影響所以我要再次強調"},{"start":483.746,"end":505.891,"text":"不分族群都應當受惠於政府總預算讓他們的生活進步都能夠來予以實踐下一頁今天是思瑤就任立委這一屆274天我也替您算過了是您就任這個內閣院長165天您還記得您的誓詞嗎宣誓的誓詞"},{"start":513.69,"end":534.266,"text":"下一頁我們同樣的不管是立委或是行政院長於是以制成客尊憲法於是以制成客尊國家法令所以無論行政、立法都要客尊憲法我們不期待所有的"},{"start":535.95,"end":564.071,"text":"政治工作者宣誓的時候說一套而實際的作為又是另一套如為誓言願受最嚴厲之制裁民意會制裁剛剛院長說得非常好這一頁呢是我上一次在質詢審計部審計部部長我就以這一張這是國家完整的預算制度No one is outsider沒人例外"},{"start":565.252,"end":586.432,"text":"預算編轉是行政權,審議預算是立法權,而預算執行是行政權,後端的監督預算的執行是審計權。相關的適用法規,預算法、會計法、決算法、審計法、公庫法、財政紀律法、公債法乃至於憲法。"},{"start":587.253,"end":603.328,"text":"所以這就是我們的忠誠義務不是嗎?下一頁但我非常遺憾喔在野黨的委員那一天9月20在這裡是先提案退回總預算案當時是沒有載明理由的"},{"start":604.09,"end":605.01,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．吳思瑤"},{"start":625.205,"end":638.334,"text":"先退回表決然後才提出相關退回預算的理由而且每一個理由我不想在這裡贅述因為剛剛您都在您清楚的預算報告裡頭回應了這些"},{"start":641.115,"end":663.673,"text":"黨預算的理由完全不正當或者是說您也看到了在野黨的委員對於預算編列的一些建議您也提出了解方就在您剛剛報告的文件裡但是藍白的委員不願意來傾聽而這幾點退回預算的理由真的是我懷疑就是國民黨黨團的助理幕僚寫的"},{"start":665.285,"end":669.269,"text":"無論如何,我們今天可以報告,我在這裡請求韓國瑜院長,"},{"start":686.705,"end":705.679,"text":"總預算只推進了二分之一步,這是很罕見的。過去協商獲得共識來排定總預算審查的期程,它必然是尋答完畢,交付委員會審查,各黨同意,不得異議。"},{"start":707.452,"end":721.702,"text":"也就是不提復議我那天在第三次的朝野協商含院長您主持的我把這樣子的過去的慣例向您請求向您呼籲向您提出但是被院長無視"},{"start":723.697,"end":742.697,"text":"但我們尊重朝野協商的結論但是我請求就如同我剛剛用客家語用鄒族語用越南語來表達這片土地上不分族群的國人期待總預算不能只進二分之一步我們要進入審查的階段專業來對決"},{"start":745.2,"end":773.746,"text":"如果在野黨的委員針對各項預算有疑義回到各該委員會去好好行使審查權我再次懇求韓院長下週二也在這裡卓院長報告完畢之後能不能夠順利復為我希望韓院長能夠一事中立莫忘世間苦人多這是您的名言我想我們持續努力好嗎卓院長"},{"start":774.526,"end":788.869,"text":"當然我們必須要更加的努力讓大院的委員能夠了解總預算編列的精神跟他未來執行的結果以及不執行的效果。好,不執行會有什麼效果嗎?會有什麼負面的惡果呢?"},{"start":789.989,"end":790.79,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":804.909,"end":822.391,"text":"一新增計畫有2528億就包括軍公教的3%調薪包括癌症新藥的支付包括我們護理的三班制的加擠包括我們潛艦國造國防預算如果國防預算沒有辦法通過誰最高興中國最高興"},{"start":823.393,"end":844.827,"text":"就是新增計畫,延續性項目新增的項目也有2067億為丁為黨就包括治水預算159億包括0到6歲國家一起養新增41億包括要強化我們的AI產業中小企業還有五大信賴產業加起來有146億當然包括前瞻5期703億換言之下一頁"},{"start":852.932,"end":871.708,"text":"26億的進法補償來擋3兆的總預算用5萬元民的利益來擋下2350萬的全民的福祉他顯不合理尤其這一頁您已經說到大家都會背了憲法70條預算法91條財政紀律法第5條第7條還有財政收支劃分法38支1條來下一頁下一頁"},{"start":881.192,"end":890.418,"text":"不論誰執政都要克遵憲法這個是國民黨執政國民黨國會多數國民黨的大法官"},{"start":892.526,"end":916.048,"text":"任命之下做出來的兩個憲法的裁判是自264號跟是自391號都告訴我們立法委員不能為增加預算之支出因為他會破壞財政紀律會破壞憲法的權利分立原則這就是您說的只此一例否則二例一開後患無窮"},{"start":917.267,"end":943.611,"text":"我們後續在針對總預算的審查期間,針對幾個在野黨委員所提出來的方案,我相信我們做好準備,總能夠...謝謝吳思瑤委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第二號,傅坤祺委員質詢。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":885,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時43分）謝謝主席，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：吳委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：院長、大師兄、所有的內閣同仁，大家辛苦了。我今天的破題非常清楚「憲法、預算皆無顏色」，不論是藍、是白或是綠，都要恪遵憲法；也不論是行政或是立法部門都同樣要善盡憲法的忠誠義務。我非常遺憾，風風雨雨的總預算今天卓院長終於可以進入立法院的議事殿堂進行報告，但是擋預算的藍白委員們小貓兩三隻，民眾黨的委員更是8席都沒有出現。我認為如果真的關心總預算就應當到場參與跟聆聽，我首先要表達我的遺憾。","我常常有個說法，現在臺灣的政治環境非常險惡，戰場就在立法院，中國的統戰制高要點在在地點出，要用臺灣的民主破壞臺灣的民主，所以我形容它是形同一場隱形的民主政變！院長，你同意我的觀點嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣是一個民主深化的國家，民主可以經由人民的力量來改變，如果用其他非法的行為，我想國人是無法接受的。"],["吳委員思瑤：是，我們擁有無限強大的隱形席次，就是我們的民氣可用啊！","我所謂的民主政變，就像五把利刃，刀刀見骨，刺向臺灣的心臟。第一、擴權，上個會期的國會擴權法案已經被證明立法院不應當站在憲法的對立面，大法官的釋憲已經做出了終極的裁判；擴權之後，又要搶錢，就是這個會期我們面臨的，譬如財劃法的修正案，譬如上個會期傅崐萁委員已經提出的三大錢坑法案，乃至於原住民的委員或是離島選區的委員分別提出了法案要新設基金，這都可能破壞國家的財政紀律，摧毀國家的預算制度，這是搶錢；第三把利刃就是要沒收民權，惡修選罷法，增加罷免的難度，向人民珍貴的憲法賦權開刀；再來是摧毀憲法，在野黨搶修憲法訴訟法，我非常遺憾的說，似乎在野黨的委員是違憲上癮，再一次提出要以修法來取代修憲，這樣的憲訴法將可能癱瘓我們憲法法庭的運作。","從擴權、搶錢、沒收民權，乃至於摧毀憲法，還有您站在這裡的此時此刻，我們共同要解決的是另外一把大的利刃，也就是中國習近平已經想方設法來下達命令，要摧毀賴清德政府可能擁有的執政成績，他的方法就是來杯葛總預算，就是我們今天站在這裡，針對預算，能不能夠持續挺進，所以針對這個刀刀見骨，就是我所謂的民主政變，你有什麼妙方可以來因應？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的提醒。憲法是國家的根本大法，法律更是國人唯一遵守的依據，如果都能在這樣的理念之下，政府的運作就會順暢，兩院的關係就會在憲法的架構下互相的平衡，也互相的尊重，我想人民樂見的應該是這樣子，對外可以伸展國家的主權，對內可以透過很多福國利民的法案來增進人民的福利……"],["吳委員思瑤：一起來合作。"],["卓院長榮泰：這才是未來國家該走的路。"],["吳委員思瑤：是，所以朝野可以合作，雖然政黨之間有所競爭，但是對外團結，對於內政上民生的人民福祉、國家建設，我們都希望朝野合作……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["吳委員思瑤：不管卓院長或是吳思瑤，我們都是同樣的心情。","跟您分享，我的辦公室是個聯合國，每年都有很多從國際讀書回來的學生要在我辦公室實習，我辦公室更是跨族群，譬如我辦公室有客家的年輕幕僚，有原住民的年輕幕僚，還有新住民的年輕幕僚，這些年輕世代針對總預算，不分族群，都希望不分顏色的總預算快快審查、速速通過，所以我跟幾位我的辦公室幕僚討論，我今天要用三種語言來表達不同族群對於總預算通過的心聲，你可以考我的發音。","「政府總預算案無分色目，希望遽遽審查、遽遽通過！」您聽得懂我的客家話嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：請古主委來翻譯一下。"],["吳委員思瑤：沒問題，100分，謝謝古主委。這是我們四縣腔的客語。這一次如果我們的預算沒有通過，客庄地方創生的13.5億就受影響了，這是客家青年的期盼。","再來，我要用原住民族的語言，而且是非常少見的鄒族語，來表達原民朋友的心聲：","（譯：政府總預算，沒有政黨的問題，希望早點通過！）","這是鄒族語，我努力了。"],["卓院長榮泰：誠意一百分。"],["吳委員思瑤：謝謝，這是原民青年的心聲，我們看到原民的青年最近在串聯，他們不希望部分在野的委員拿原住民族禁伐補償的預算來作為政治的犧牲品，原民的年輕朋友也在反省，也在抵抗。同樣的，原鄉產業發展，如果預算沒有通過，一樣十多億沒有辦法支應。","再來，我要用新住民語，我辦公室的同仁來自於越南。","（譯：總預算無黨派之爭，希望總預算盡快審查、同意。）","這是越南話。新住民的朋友，如果總預算沒有通過，新住民族的教育預算，不管是子女或者是新住民都會受到影響。所以我要再次強調，不分族群都應當受惠於政府總預算，讓他們的生活進步都能夠予以實踐。","今天是思瑤這一屆就任立委274天，我也替您算過了，是您就任內閣院長165天，您還記得您宣誓的誓詞嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：記得，背不起來。"],["吳委員思瑤：我們同樣的，不管是立委或是行政院長，「余誓以至誠，恪遵憲法」、「余誓以至誠，恪遵國家法令」，所以無論行政、立法都要恪遵憲法，我們不期待所有的政治工作者宣誓的時候說一套，而實際的作為又是另一套。「如違誓言，願受最嚴厲之制裁」，民意會制裁，剛剛院長說得非常好。","我上一次在質詢審計部審計長時就是以這一張投影片說明，這是國家完整的預算制度，no one is outsider，沒人例外，預算編撰是行政權，審議預算是立法權，而預算執行是行政權，後端的監督預算執行是審計權，相關的適用法規有預算法、會計法、決算法、審計法、公庫法、財政紀律法、公債法，乃至於憲法，所以這就是我們的忠誠義務，不是嗎？","但我非常遺憾，在野黨的委員9月20號那一天在這裡是先提案退回總預算案，當時是沒有載明理由的，歷史上手指頭指的出來幾次的退回總預算案，都需要巨細靡遺的提出對於總預算編撰的意見，如果你要退回的話，可是這一次藍白的委員退回是沒有載明理由，他們先退回、表決，然後才提出相關退回預算的理由，而且每一個理由我不想在這裡贅述，因為剛剛您都在您清楚的預算報告裡頭回應了，這些擋預算的理由完全不正當，或者是說您也看到了在野黨的委員對於預算編列的一些建議，你也提出了解方，就在您剛剛報告的文件裡，但是藍、白的委員不願意來傾聽，而這幾點退回預算的理由，我懷疑真的就是國民黨黨團的助理、幕僚寫的，毫不專業、粗糙不堪，我們希望所有對於預算的項目就回到各該委員會去專業審查，這是立法院的憲政忠誠義務，您跟我的看法一樣嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["吳委員思瑤：無論如何，我們今天可以報告，我在這裡請求韓國瑜院長，總預算只推進了二分之一步，這是很罕見的，過去協商獲得共識來排定總預算審查的期程，它必然是詢答完畢，交付委員會審查，各黨同意不得異議，也就是不提復議。那天在第三次的朝野協商，韓院長您主持的，我把這樣子過去的慣例向您請求、向您呼籲、向您提出，但是被院長無視，我們尊重朝野協商的結論，但是我請求，就如同我剛剛用客家語、用鄒族語、用越南語來表達這片土地上不分族群的國人期待總預算不能只進二分之一步，我們要進入審查的階段，用專業來對決！如果在野黨的委員針對各項預算有疑義，那就回到各該委員會去好好行使審查權。我再次懇求韓院長，下周二也在這裡，卓院長報告完畢之後，能不能夠順利付委？我希望韓院長能夠議事中立，「莫忘世間苦人多」，這是您的名言。卓院長，我們持續努力好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，我們必須要更加的努力，讓大院的委員能夠了解總預算編列的精神，跟它未來執行的結果，以及不執行的效果。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，不執行會有什麼效果嗎？會有什麼負面的惡果呢？如果總預算不審查、不通過，包括新興計畫、延續性項目新增以及前瞻5期，總共影響了5,299億。針對新興新增計畫有2,528億，包括軍公教的3%調薪，包括癌症新藥的支付，包括護理三班制的加給，包括潛艦國造國防預算，如果國防預算沒有辦法通過，誰最高興？中國最高興，這是新增計畫的部分。延續性項目、新增的項目也有2,067億無法動彈，包括治水預算159億，包括0到6歲國家一起養新增41億，包括要強化我們的AI產業、中小企業振興以及五大信賴產業，加起來有146億，當然還包括前瞻5期703億。換言之，用26億的禁伐補償來擋3兆的總預算，用5萬原民的利益來擋2,350萬全民的福祉，顯不合理，尤其這一頁您已經說到大家都會背了，憲法第七十條、預算法第九十一條、財政紀律法第五條、第七條，還有財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一。","不論誰執政，都要恪遵憲法。這個是國民黨執政、國民黨國會多數、國民黨的大法官的任命之下做出來的兩個憲法裁判，釋字第264號和釋字第391號都告訴我們立法委員不能為增加預算之支出，因為會破壞財政紀律、會破壞憲法的權利分立原則，這就是您說的，只此一例，否則惡例一開，後患無窮。我們後續在總預算的審查期間，針對幾個在野黨委員所提出來的方案，我相信我們做好準備，總能夠努力來排除萬難，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員提出這麼精闢而且非常負責任的講法，非常感謝，謝謝！"],["吳委員思瑤：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳思瑤委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第2號傅崐萁委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":22,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-01"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1138801_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}