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t":"像今天跟下禮拜二我來這裡報告這是基於憲法的義務跟行政院的責任但是明天我們會到最需要的地方去我希望我到最需要地方去看看災情的時候不只是去發現問題我們需要更有能力更有預算來解決當地的問題我們抱著這種心情到各地去協助所有的國人"},{"start":637.867,"end":663.086,"text":"其實風災過後應該是會應該是要到這個災區去看一看我明天就會去看那現在很多軍工教育朋友說那明年加薪3%怎麼辦很多里長遇到我們那現在就說這個1.5個月年終未經該怎麼辦我們一起努力啦還是可以在必要的時間之前完成這個所有相關的程序我們一起努力雖然這個院長是樂觀主義者沒有辦法"},{"start":664.349,"end":686.811,"text":"但是如果你要想到這個最壞的結果,如果下禮拜二這個總預算諮詢結束之後,在野黨仍然杯葛總預算,不讓總預算復違的話,那行政院要怎麼因應呢?我們就只能就剛剛委員前一題所提到的,在法律的規定底下,就一些必要的支出,法律的支出來做執行。"},{"start":687.518,"end":713.448,"text":"其他所有的就暫時要等到大院審議完成之後那日期我們現在無法在這裡做預測但我還是希望能夠儘快在法定期間我是希望能夠通過那我也希望在野黨不要在中央在立法院擋預算然後回到地方之後就說我今天在這個立法院在哪個部會爭取了什麼預算回去這是矛盾的嘛"},{"start":714.413,"end":719.677,"text":"報告委員,我們現在比較擔心的是我們針對大家爭議的幾項事情我們一直針對問題提出方法但是"},{"start":736.316,"end":755.115,"text":"有部分的委員所看到的就只是問題而沒有詳細看我們的方法所以一直認為是有問題而無方法這個是造成錯誤的解讀非常的不好因為我看到早上國民黨的這個總召對你拍桌子我在想說這樣子拍桌子拍了6下拍下去這禮拜二還有機會再復委嗎有啦"},{"start":759.318,"end":779.485,"text":"還是有信心?還是抱著希望?只能抱著樂觀的信心這是為大家要做更多的事情,把必要的事情做好其實齁,台灣的今年經濟成長是真的很不錯齁我看今天報紙還寫GDP的成長今年有可能破四然後呢,我也看到了這一個財政部的資料齁"},{"start":780.407,"end":797.359,"text":"今年一到九月中央政府的負稅的這個徵收的情況呢,其實大部分都達標甚至還超過,綜合所得稅、遺產稅、這個證券交易稅、期貨交易稅,這些前九個月我們的稅率已經超過全年的預算數了。"},{"start":798.32,"end":822.588,"text":"所以沒有意外的話,前9月的這個超收的比例來推估,今年大概這個稅收啦,這個負稅的收入大概可以超過預算的2500億,那請問一下院長,這個要怎麼去做運用?這個預估的事情啦,我們當然期待...因為到9月啦,其實部長在這邊,這個大概我推估的應該不會太離譜吧?"},{"start":824.64,"end":834.991,"text":"是,跟委員說明今年的113年的稅務時增實際收入數已經達成全年預算數的90%那在稅客收入的部分"},{"start":835.35,"end":835.79,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．李坤城"},{"start":856.428,"end":856.828,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間"},{"start":882.837,"end":892.583,"text":"稅客收入也增加了大概20%增加了大概4600億左右那財政部為什麼從過去的保守會變成現在比較熱觀的底氣在哪裡"},{"start":893.704,"end":921.618,"text":"跟委員報告對於稅收的估測我們從112年開我們就開始設立了一個估測專案小組也就是說對阿沒有我是說你增加了稅客增加了20%喔對那這個部分有幾個增加的比較多第一個就是營所稅因為就營利事業在113年的那個好的一個獲利成績會在114年呈現所以113年他們的獲利比112年來的好所以營所稅有增加中所稅的部分是因為有調薪"},{"start":941.519,"end":946.066,"text":"好,謝謝李委員好,謝謝卓院長下一位"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":93,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（14時48分）謝謝主席，我們請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：李委員好。"],["李委員坤城：院長好。院長辛苦了！原本這個風災過後，院長跟相關的部會首長應該去災區看一看，但是因為我們的總預算還沒辦法過，總預算今天是第一次讓你來這邊報告，所以變成這禮拜五跟下禮拜二你都必須要在立法院來做總預算的報告，不過至少是有進步了，過去國民黨、民眾黨擋了6次總預算付委，所以今天院長總算是可以到立法院來做總預算的報告跟說明。","本席認為這陣子關於總預算還有人事案的部分，我認為在野黨是在擋預算、擋人事，也擋臺灣的進步。我今天看了一下司法院的網站，點進去看，今天司法院的網站大法官只剩下8位，因為我們有7位是在10月31號就到任了，許宗力院長等7名大法官任期是在10月31號就任滿了，所以點進去看，網站只剩下8個人。然後我們的總統在8月30號就提名接任的人選請立法院來同意，立法院到現在也還沒有排審，所以包含有很多的律師來連署，希望立法院要立即排審大法官人事案，還有拒絕通過憲法訴訟法修正案，到10月28號已經有超過五萬九千多人參與連署，這是有關司法院的部分。它會產生一個憲政危機，如果這7位大法官人事案持續遭到擱置或是否決，然後國民黨翁曉玲他們所提出來的憲法訴訟法的修正案獲得三讀通過，就會造成一種憲政危機，因為它要總額的三分之二，我們就是只有8個大法官，永遠沒有辦法來開會、永遠沒辦法評議、永遠沒辦法作憲法上面的判決，會造成一個憲政危機，這是有關司法院的部分。","另外在考試院的部分，院長，我們現在已經有兩個月沒有考試院正副院長跟考試委員了，考試院的正副院長跟考試委員任期是到8月31號屆滿，5月31號總統就已經提名咨請立法院來做同意了，到現在為止也還沒有審。所以你會看到很荒謬的一個情況，就是我們現在考試院的考試及格證書上面，院長是寫是什麼？出缺，上面寫的是出缺，然後就蓋一個考試院而已，所以對於考生來講，他所拿到的及格證書上面沒有考試院長的名字，這是在兩院的部分。","然後在獨立機關部分的話，外送平臺，公平會的委員有4位到明年1月31號任滿，然後行政院已經在10月30號提名4位，這會遇到一個什麼樣的情況？現在有兩個外送平臺要合併，他們的案子送到了公平會，但是如果送到公平會90天以後沒有做出yes或no的審查，因為最後到1月31號我們只剩下3個委員，沒辦法審理，最後有可能因為超過時間、審理期到了，就可以讓這兩家外送平臺逕行結合。所以國民黨、民眾黨杯葛這個人事，也讓外送平臺有可能會產生一個怪獸，因為時間到了，公平會委員也不夠了，結果他們就自動結合了。","還有一個是NCC的人事同意權，這個卡最久，4月30號行政院就提名了，然後從8月1號開始到現在只剩下3個委員，行政院不得已引用舊法，指定副主委延任到新的委員產生，並兼任主委。","剛剛講了司法院跟考試院，還有兩個行政院下面的獨立機關，其實人事案遲遲不排審，憲法法庭有判決出來，就是最近的憲判字號第9號，它說如果立法院不行使人事同意權，是違反了憲法的忠誠義務，為憲法所不允許啦！那我就要請教一下院長，目前如果因為立法院不排審人事同意權，我看起來考試院跟司法院已經名存實亡了，兩個獨立機關看起來也很難去運作了，院長怎麼去處理這個憲政的僵局？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然誠如委員所說的，每個憲政機關或是獨立機關的人事同意權如果沒有辦法順利地執行，讓人員能夠補充起來，那麼每個憲政機關或獨立機關的法定職權就受到傷害，讓它荒廢掉，人民的各項基本權利也就沒有辦法得到合理的保障，這一點我相信大院的委員還是會把它放在心上，趕快把這個人事同意權列為重要的議案，讓它儘速通過，我還是誠懇地拜託。"],["李委員坤城：我們當然希望啊！像大法官現在只剩下8個，再不審的話，名存實亡。其實很多釋憲案不是立法院或是行政機關提出來的，95%以上都是人民的釋憲案，這也影響到人民的權益啊！我剛才提到的公平會委員也是一樣，如果明年1月31號新的公平會委員沒有加進去，只剩下3個，那怎麼去審查兩大外送平臺要合併的案子？"],["卓院長榮泰：就沒有辦法作成任何的決定。"],["李委員坤城：有可能因為時間到了，就讓他們自行的結合了，因為已經超過時間了啊！有可能過了審理期間之後，他們就逕行結合了，這是我們一般老百姓願意看到的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：消極面來看，它有很多事情不能做；但更多的積極面，很多法定的職權它應該做的不能做，這個更嚴重。"],["李委員坤城：剛才是講到人事的部分，現在回到預算的部分。院長在會計年度改制之後，您應該也創下了一個紀錄，最晚在11月才進行總預算報告。我自己來自新北市，我看到新北市的議員也召開了一個記者會，就講因為中央的總預算被卡住了，然後在地方、在新北市政府，有一些是屬於中央要撥給地方政府的預算也卡住了。明年度我們新北市政府獲得中央的補助有達到1,013億，但是如果卡住的話，包含治水「水安全」、新莊棒球場、板橋第一運動田徑場、淡海輕軌、八里輕軌、連接林口八里的公路、汐東線基隆捷運的補助，這些都卡住了。這不是只有新北市，我相信現在全國地方的縣市政府都在審查總預算，但是中央政府的總預算卡在這邊，他們很多明年預算也處於不確定的狀態。","如果總預算沒辦法過，目前有兩個權宜的措施，如果是舊的案子、舊的計畫，它可以做，但是有兩個風險在：第一個，新興資本支出還有新增計畫沒辦法動支，目前看來有大概超過了2,500億；另外一個是延續的計畫如果超過上年度的執行數的話，也無法動支，目前看來也大概有超過2,000億，兩個部分加起來接近5,300億。所以我要請教一下院長，光是這一個新興的資本、新增的計畫，我剛剛其實有聽到一些委員在講，要求政府明年編的預算哪裡不夠、哪裡不夠，但現在總預算都不過的話，講那些其實都是空話。包含內政部打詐專法相關的計畫現在也卡住；經濟部這裡舉我的一個例子，三蘆水管改善的工程1億4,000萬也卡住了；然後交通部公路運輸、還有交通平權的計畫等等；甚至現在軍公教的加薪3%，還有很多里長也問我，不是說明年的過年前有1.5個月的年終慰問金，現在卡住了該怎麼辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員清楚的，新增計畫跟新興的事項我們都沒有辦法執行。國家現在正面臨重大的轉捩點，我們各項的發展非常地快速，有所延誤的話，對未來的發展都會產生巨大而不可知的影響。我們認為之前那一段雖然有所延誤，現在開始趕快迎頭趕上，還是來得及，像今天跟下禮拜二，我來這裡報告，這是基於憲法的義務跟行政院的責任，但是明天我們會到最需要的地方去。我希望我到最需要的地方去看看災情的時候，不只是去發現問題，我們需要更有能力、更有預算來解決當地的問題，我們抱著這種心情，到各地去協助所有的國人。"],["李委員坤城：其實風災過後，應該是要到災區去看一看……"],["卓院長榮泰：我明天就會去看。"],["李委員坤城：好。現在很多軍公教的朋友說明年加薪3%怎麼辦？很多里長遇到我們說這1.5個月年終慰問金該怎麼辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一起努力啦，還是可以在必要的時間之前完成所有相關的程序，我們一起努力。"],["李委員坤城：雖然院長是樂觀主義者……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有辦法。"],["李委員坤城：但是你要想到最壞的結果，如果下個禮拜二總預算質詢結束之後，在野黨仍然杯葛總預算，不讓總預算付委的話，行政院要怎麼因應呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們只能就剛剛委員前一題所提到的，在法律的規定底下，就一些必要的支出、法定的支出來執行，其他所有的就暫時要等到大院審議完成之後，而日期我們現在無法在這裡做預測，但我還是希望能夠儘快在法定期間。"],["李委員坤城：我是希望能夠通過，也希望在野黨不要在中央、在立法院擋預算，然後回到地方之後就說自己今天在立法院、在哪個部會爭取了什麼預算回去，這是矛盾的嘛。當然，院長很樂觀，也希望在下禮拜二之後預算能夠順利地付委，但還是要想到最壞的情況。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們現在比較擔心的是，針對大家爭議的幾項事情，我們一直針對問題提出方法，但是有部分的委員看到的就只是問題，而沒有詳細看我們的方法，所以一直認為是有問題而無方法，造成錯誤的解讀，這非常地不好。"],["李委員坤城：我看到早上國民黨的總召對你拍桌子，我想這樣拍桌子拍了6下，下禮拜二還有機會再付委嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：有啦。"],["李委員坤城：還是有信心，還是抱持著希望？"],["卓院長榮泰：只能抱著樂觀的信心，這是為大家做更多的事情，把必要的事情做好。"],["李委員坤城：其實臺灣今年的經濟成長真的很不錯，我看今天報紙還寫今年GDP成長有可能破4%。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["李委員坤城：我也看到了財政部的資料，今年1到9月，中央政府賦稅徵收情況大部分都達標，甚至還超過，綜合所得稅、遺產稅、證券交易稅、期貨交易稅在前9個月的歲入已經超過全年的預算數了，沒有意外的話，以前9個月的超收比例來推估，今年的稅收、賦稅的收入大概可以超過預算的2,500億，請問一下院長，這個要怎麼去做運用？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個預估的事情，我們當然期待……"],["李委員坤城：因為到9月……部長在這邊，我推估的應該不會太離譜吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，跟委員說明，今年113年的稅入實徵實際收入數已經達成全年預算數的90%，在稅課收入部分達成全年預算數的92%，我們認為今年的稅課收入會達成預算數是沒有問題的，但是會超過預算數多少，我們認為要到11月中才會比較精確，因為10月還有一個營利事業的暫繳稅款會進來，會在10月份陸續進來，11月中會比較確定今年度的稅收情形。"],["李委員坤城：所以超過2,000億以上應該沒什麼問題吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們希望是可以這樣，這部分要等到11月中會更確定。"],["李委員坤城：這也是審慎樂觀啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["李委員坤城：對啊，所以我說我們經濟的成長率是好的，我們稅收其實收到的比預估的還要多，我也看到財政部在明年度的預算裡面，稅課收入也增加了20%，增加了大概4,600億左右，財政部為什麼從過去的保守會變成現在比較樂觀？你們的底氣在哪裡？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，對於稅收的估測，我們從112年就開始設立了一個估測專案小組，也就是說……"],["李委員坤城：我是說你們稅課增加了20%……"],["莊部長翠雲：對，這部分有幾個增加的比較多，第一個就是營所稅，因為營利事業在113年好的獲利成績會在114年呈現，113年他們的獲利比112年來得好，所以營所稅有增加；綜所稅是因為有調薪，還有利率調升，利息所得跟薪資所得增加，綜所稅的收入也會增加；還有就是營業稅，因為消費穩定且溫和的成長，所以會增加。"],["李委員坤城：其實我們是對臺灣的經濟有信心，但不希望因為總預算被卡，整個被綁手綁腳，阻礙了臺灣的進步。"],["主席：好，謝謝李委員。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝院長、部長及主席。"],["卓院長榮泰：珍惜所有的資源，謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝卓院長。","下一位請林思銘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":124,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","陳昭姿","李坤城","林思銘","林國成","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","張雅琳","張嘉郡","陳培瑜","林德福","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw"],"page_start":22,"meetingDate":["2024-11-01"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00002","1138801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n進行質詢 ─","agenda_id":"1138801_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}