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政策，足以滿足消防員需要的心理諮商服務嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：這個當然就是……"],["鍾委員佳濱：要看內政部？"],["邱部長泰源：不是，專家來做評論。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，因為你是專家。"],["邱部長泰源：可能要精神或者心理師方面的專家來討論，看看幾次是比較適合這個方案。"],["鍾委員佳濱：因為你在我們內閣當中能掌握醫療的專業資源，你可以清楚地告訴內政部長、告訴消防署署長，為了避免消防員罹患PTSD，我們應該怎麼去安排這些心理諮商的服務，對不對？你同不同意？內閣要看你，你可以給他們一個建議嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我願意承擔這個專業的蒐集。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，既然這樣，我也問內政部長知道為什麼消防員不願意使用現有的資源嗎？第一個，他們排班時間沒辦法配合；第二個，他們怕同儕長官的異樣眼光。你覺得他會承認昨天去打火，看到焦黑的屍體抬出來，自己受不了，需要休息3天嗎？很難講出來，英雄有淚不輕彈，讓他去面對一個陌生的諮商師，他可能也不太想講。如果要協助行政院、內政部、消防署，你覺得要怎麼提升消防員對心理資源輔導的接受度和使用率？"],["邱部長泰源：這部分是不是我請司長，因為他有很多的經驗可以跟委員報告一下？"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，司長，簡單地答復，因為時間的關係。"],["鄭代理司長淑心：謝謝委員關切消防員的心理健康。的確不管是警察、消防或是我們醫護人員，在執行業務的過程裡面一定會面臨到類似的狀況，最近其實消防署沒有找我們談，但是警政署有找我們……"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果他找你們談，你們願意提供諮詢嗎？"],["鄭代理司長淑心：非常地願意！"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，很好！"],["鄭代理司長淑心：我剛剛要講的就是，其實我們衛福部可以提供專業的諮詢、給予專業的意見。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，謝謝，有擔當的司長，現在希望有擔當的部長。我的結論是，我們所有的執法人員、所有的公務員，包括醫護人員、警察、消防員，必須是一個健全的人，才會是一個有溫度的執法者。我為什麼今天問這個議題呢？我當然是長期關心我們社區精神衛生健康，但是我曾經遇到心理諮商師他輔導過消防員，他說救護車一開出去，那個年輕的消防員就開始有些心理障礙，為什麼？他在一次出勤當中，沒想到救來的是他的阿嬤，而且OHCA，從此之後他就覺得……心理諮商師問他：你會不會覺得難過？需要我幫你怎麼樣？他說：沒有，我沒有感覺了。一個第一線的工作者，當他對人沒有感覺的時候，不只對他是傷害，對他的工作、對他的對象也是一個很嚴重的傷害。我們希望我們所有的醫護人員、執法人員、包括消防員是一個健全的人，他才會是一個有溫度地對待他服務對象的人，你同意嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：同意，而且一定要往這樣方面來繼續做。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以最後的結論，我希望你要協助消防署跟民間諮商來特約合作，提供消防員長期的心輔資源，讓消防員能夠跟我們的心輔師建立信任關係，來協助他、穩定他的情緒。所以結論是，希望你們來協助內政部消防署，定期調查消防員罹患PTSD的情況，而且與內政部來合作，建立跨部會消防員的關懷機制，主動提供長期而不是被動的心理輔導資源，可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：可以，這是應該要做的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝部長。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝鍾委員，謝謝部長。接續我們請林國成委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-7","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","鍾佳濱","林國成","楊瓊瓔","林淑芬","賴士葆","黃秀芳","陳雪生","王育敏","劉建國","牛煦庭","楊曜","陳瑩","黃國昌","盧縣一"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2024-11-04"],"gazette_id":"1139301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結報告案1案；二、邀\n請衛生福利部部長針對「社區精神病患照護優化」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139301_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}