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疑人不用最怕是且用且疑或是半贏半拒"},{"start":98.413,"end":125.896,"text":"我認為這個所有用人程序在那個部分絕對沒有問題不管他跟他操守能力各部分一定有他嚴謹的程序跟標準那我想請教這個為什麼最近會有那麼多人事的紛擾我相信你是一個仁義之人而且你是用人為財是財是所對國家的未來你們思考最好的人選"},{"start":127.483,"end":127.743,"text":"委員提到這一點"},{"start":142.637,"end":145.899,"text":"我完全相信人事學是屬於行政權力部分"},{"start":168.342,"end":196.149,"text":"政務人員上臺下臺就是離職本屬稀鬆平常之事。任何從政者就必須保持一個平常心。他為什麼下臺還有人發出不平之名。我覺得用人程序嚴謹這絕對是沒有錯。這個標準我相信卓內閣已經做得到。我們一定非常謹慎。那我覺得那一定是有特殊的原因或者是溝通不良。如果溝通能夠好一點"},{"start":198.142,"end":224.669,"text":"讓離職者、讓下台者能夠有更多理解我想就不會有這些誤會是的,所以我們這個過程還是需要回過頭來看看我們都要充分尊重這個行政權裡面的用人權是財是所,用人為財我也相信是卓內閣這個用人的唯一的標準我相信,但是我覺得要跟社會做更多的溝通跟說明是的"},{"start":225.882,"end":253.484,"text":"當然國家面對這個主要講嚴重一點是內憂外患內憂我們有內部政黨的嚴重的對立甚至社會的分裂外患中國的武力的威脅每天持續我個人認為我的觀察內憂部分藍白之亂"},{"start":255.35,"end":280.696,"text":"是屬於界限之極,會亂,很煩。界限之極啊,每天都會覺得很亂,每天都會覺得很煩,那邊也癢,那邊也癢。中國的威脅才是台灣的心腹大患。所以要治療界限之極藍白之亂,"},{"start":281.994,"end":308.3,"text":"人民的理性力量很重要我們如何讓人民的理性力量發揮在下一次選舉給予藍白色人的制裁我相信人民的理性力量但是中國的武力威脅是台灣生存的心腹大患不能只有他們有毛我們只能用盾不能他們只有劍我們只有盾"},{"start":310.836,"end":338.9,"text":"建、頓、合一、有攻有守如何落實在外交政策跟國防政策上面如何反映在預算上面非常重要我們不能一直歪打,我們不是要採取防衛式所以我希望說針對中國武力威脅的這個心腹大患在外交政策上面在這個國防政策上面應該更有全盤的思維"},{"start":339.991,"end":346.933,"text":"過去我們在民主運動發展的過程我們從外徵主權內徵民主的過程到現在我們在"},{"start":364.209,"end":391.89,"text":"地緣政治的戰略地位在國際產業鏈的供應者的地位我們現在要維持的是讓台灣能夠和平穩定繁榮發展這個是我們更大一個目標在這個目標底下當然我會願意看到全國大家用這樣的共同方向當作團結的力量那也讓國際社會看到我們有自我保護自己的能力也願意負起國際的責任這個才是今天卓家最重要的發展之道"},{"start":394.874,"end":421.503,"text":"對界限之急有沒有耐心這可能長時間會對我們造成困擾我說內憂的部分外患的部分我們要有很明確的主張、策略、戰略來對付台灣的心腹大患所以應該有一個全盤的策略怎麼樣讓國人安心、國人放心台灣絕對可以保衛民主自由、主權獨立"},{"start":422.677,"end":443.676,"text":"身旁兩位部長都是國防外交最重要的掌握者那他們對於國家的主權跟國家的安全都會列為最重要的國家目標一定要讓國人安心、放心而且要保衛國家的決心我談到一個個案就是立陶宛最近國會大選國會大選內閣改組"},{"start":448.78,"end":474.773,"text":"當然總統在我們代表處的名稱過去跟前總理是不一致的那現任剛當選的總理他跟總統他對台灣是相對在我們代表處的名稱是相對比較保守好,如果內閣改組國會改選產生的新的內閣總理跟總統的對台灣代表處的名稱是一致的"},{"start":476.122,"end":479.466,"text":"會不會面臨臺灣代表處被更名、被迫更名的這個問題?"},{"start":482.531,"end":507.372,"text":"跟委員來說明這個我們設處的名稱是經過兩國政府這個同意之後這個才設定的所以我想一定是秉於這樣的原則所以現在雖然選舉過程當中或現在在籌儲政府有一些不同的意見那我相信台灣跟立陶宛的關係還是一個民主價值的一個"},{"start":508.032,"end":511.875,"text":"所以你們全盤沙盤推演?目前就是其實這也涉及到立陶宛他雖然有提到"},{"start":535.816,"end":540.358,"text":"我對您有信心,我也對卓院長有信心,我們一定可以把這名稱保留,但是要做很多的努力。"},{"start":563.969,"end":567.773,"text":"地方財政收支已經改善得非常顯著,中央補助地方的金額屢創新高,"},{"start":580.834,"end":599.913,"text":"你看這個從蔡總統到賴總統改善了地方的財務結構讓地方政府的長短期的債都逐年下降對地方政府補助逐年增加明年會創新高到1兆151億"},{"start":602.998,"end":619.3,"text":"好,在這種現況之下,地方補助昨天增加,財務狀況也明顯的改善。院長跟部長,您對當前國民黨主導的財化法的修正,你們認為有它的急迫性跟必要性嗎?"},{"start":621.092,"end":638.479,"text":"是 呃 跟委員報告首先就急迫性來講也就是說就如同這張表格所呈現的地方的財政已經大幅改善從原來的短處到去年已經有剩餘648億換言之地方的財政在中央大幅度的"},{"start":639.199,"end":667.239,"text":"的挹注之下以及各自的努力已經有大幅的改善換言之他的財政狀況是不錯的這是這一點那第二個就是說目前來說沒有必要性沒有那個急迫性也沒有必要性現狀是非常好的趨勢也不錯你看債務也持續下降然後也剩餘去年整體有640萬元的剩餘他為什麼好的趨勢好的現象他要改變呢"},{"start":668.019,"end":670.16,"text":"所以中央財源會更加窘迫過去任何的計畫性補助"},{"start":685.808,"end":687.509,"text":"為什麼一個反對黨會製造國家的危機呢?"},{"start":716.223,"end":716.903,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．邱志偉"},{"start":740.582,"end":763.2,"text":"議員長,投資台灣三大方案必須要有轉型的規劃。要怎麼轉型?我想包括產業的轉型,還有過去是在台投資的外商是不是可以是目前只有在台投資?那未來對全球的外商是不是也可以來台灣投資?有相關的政策的補貼,像美國、日本,"},{"start":764.298,"end":767.921,"text":"報告委員我們這個投資台灣辦公室有在進行對全球的企業我們都有在招商"},{"start":794.878,"end":797.819,"text":"那半導體的部分全球外商都有我們現在就是針對這個半導體AI五大信貸產業都對他們發出這個"},{"start":809.864,"end":810.324,"text":"麻煩請交通部長備選"},{"start":831.94,"end":833.541,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．邱志偉"},{"start":852.341,"end":877.56,"text":"前瞻只到2.0沒有繼續推出3.0或是類前瞻計畫相關的後續的軌道建設都會受到嚴重影響以這個高雄市高雄市捷運紅線為什麼做了成就是因為有前瞻建設的軌道建設經費那我們現在捷運紫縣也送到教研部可行性研究我想部長跟院長都支持但它經費高達將近2000億"},{"start":880.287,"end":895.334,"text":"如果沒有前瞻只靠市政府預算沒有辦法興建捷運直線這個未來是不是可以院長再思考一下為了國家長期的發展為了南北均衡的軌道建設沒有前瞻之後"},{"start":896.79,"end":925.601,"text":"這個交通建設他可能就必須要回歸到公務預算那每個地方政府在提出計畫之後他之前他必須提出完整的財務規劃那對地方政府來看都是一個很沉重的壓力每一個地方政府都沉重的壓力有壓力當然會有動力但是你動力端看他的財源是不足以成為足夠的動力一定需要類似前瞻3.0的計畫來致應所以我希望是不是從財源來思考"},{"start":926.201,"end":926.842,"text":"主席主席主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1028,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（14時31分）謝謝院長，有請行政院卓院長、外交部林部長、國防部顧部長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長及外交部、國防部部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：邱委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：院長辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["邱委員志偉：我們每天都要思考國政，思考怎麼樣讓國家更好，讓人民更幸福。我認為面對所有的挑戰，所有的千秋霸業基本上都是從山窮水盡中開始，執政者要做最好的準備，但是做最壞的打算，所以每天都要戰戰兢兢，戮力從公，莫忘初心，方得始終；初心易得，始終難守。這是為政者該有的基本心態。我相信內閣用人一定有它嚴謹的程序，用人不疑，疑人不用，最怕的是且用且疑或者是半迎半拒，我認為所有用人程序在內閣部分絕對沒有問題，不管是操守、能力各部分，一定有它嚴謹的程序跟標準。我想請教，為什麼最近會有那麼多人事的紛擾？我相信您是一個仁義之人，而且你是用人唯才、適才適所，對國家的未來，你們思考最好的人選來為國家服務、為人民造福。但為什麼最近會有一些人事之間的新聞等等，這到底是什麼問題呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，委員提到這一點，我想無論提的結果是如何，針對每一個事件，我們都必須深刻地自我反省、檢討當中是否有一些思慮不周的地方。事實上我們從520開始總統籌組內閣團隊，那個時候我們找到的都是在各界……"],["邱委員志偉：我完全相信，因為人事權是屬於行政權的一部分，政務人員上臺、下臺、就職、離職本屬稀鬆平常之事。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["邱委員志偉：任何從政者都必須保持一個平常心，但為什麼下臺後還有人發出不平之鳴？我覺得用人程序嚴謹，這絕對是沒有錯，這個標準我相信卓內閣一定做得到。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一定非常謹慎。"],["邱委員志偉：我覺得那一定是有特殊的原因或者是溝通不良，如果溝通能夠好一點，讓離職者、讓下台者能夠有更多理解，我想就不會有這些誤會。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，所以這個過程還是需要回過頭來看看……"],["邱委員志偉：所以我充分尊重，我們都要充分尊重行政權裡面的用人權，我也相信適才適所、用人唯才是卓內閣用人的唯一標準，我相信！但是我覺得要跟社會做更多的溝通跟說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：如果講嚴重一點是內憂外患，內憂，我們有內部政黨嚴重的對立，甚至社會的分裂；外患，中國的武力威脅每天持續，我個人認為、就我的觀察，內憂部分──藍白之亂是屬於疥癬之疾，會亂、很煩！疥癬之疾就是每天都會覺得很亂、每天覺得很煩，這邊癢、那邊也癢，但中國的威脅才是臺灣的心腹大患。要治療疥癬之疾、藍白之亂，人民的理性力量很重要，我們如何讓人民的理性力量發揮，在下一次選舉給予藍白之亂制裁？我相信人民的理性力量。但中國的武力威脅是臺灣生存的心腹大患，不能只有他們有矛，我們只能用盾；不能只有他們有劍，我們只有盾，劍盾合一、有攻有守，如何落實在外交政策跟國防政策上面、如何反映在預算上面，非常重要！我們不能一路挨打，我們不能採取防衛式，所以我希望針對中國武力威脅這個心腹大患，在外交政策上面、在國防政策上面，應該更有全盤的思維，不能被動的防禦，甚至挨打，我們必須要主動的、有更積極的作為。我想請教院長，您的看法是？"],["卓院長榮泰：過去我們在民主運動發展的過程，從外爭主權、內爭民主的過程到現在，我們在地緣政治的戰略地位、在國際產業鏈供應者的地位，現在要維持讓臺灣能夠和平、穩定、繁榮、發展，這是我們更大的目標。在這個目標底下，當然我會願意看到全國、大家用這樣的共同方向當作團結的力量，讓國際社會看到我們有自我保護的能力，也願意負起國際的責任，這個才是今天國家最重要的發展之道。"],["邱委員志偉：對疥癬之疾，我們要有耐心，這可能長時間會對我們造成困擾，我是說內憂的部分。外患的部分，我們要有很明確的主張、策略、戰略來對付臺灣的心腹大患，所以應該有一個全盤的策略，怎麼樣讓國人安心、放心，臺灣絕對可以保衛民主自由、主權獨立。"],["卓院長榮泰：我身旁兩位部長都是國防、外交最重要的掌握者，對於國家的主權跟國家的安全，他們都會列為最重要的國家目標。"],["邱委員志偉：一定要讓國人安心、放心，而且也要有保衛國家的決心。","我談一個個案，就是立陶宛最近國會大選，國會大選、內閣改組，當然，過去的總統對我們代表處名稱的立場跟前總理是不一致的，現任剛當選的總理跟總統對臺灣代表處的名稱相對比較保守。如果內閣改組、國會改選產生新的內閣總理，跟總統對臺灣代表處名稱的立場是一致的，會不會面臨臺灣代表處被迫更名的問題？"],["卓院長榮泰：請林部長說明。"],["林部長佳龍：我們設處的名稱是經過兩國政府同意之後才設定的，所以我想一定是秉於這樣的原則。雖然選舉過程當中或現在在籌組政府，有一些不同的意見，我相信臺灣跟立陶宛的關係還是有民主價值作為基礎。"],["邱委員志偉：政府會更迭，政策也會改變。我說的是政府已經更迭了，我們會不會被迫更名？我們有沒有相關的因應之道？"],["林部長佳龍：當然，針對各種可能，透過政府跟政府之間的管道，我們都會保持很好的溝通。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你們有全盤的沙盤推演？"],["林部長佳龍：其實這也涉及立陶宛，他雖然有提到設處名稱中文、英文的問題，不過他也是一個有自己主權的國家，不會在中國的脅迫之下，就做出什麼決定。我們當然要盡一切的努力去溝通，希望能夠維持當時兩國同意的名稱。"],["邱委員志偉：我對你有信心，我對你有信心，我也對卓院長有信心，我們一定可以把這個名稱保留，但是要做很多的努力。"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["邱委員志偉：兩位部長先請回。有關於財政收支劃分法，請莊部長。"],["主席：麻煩請財政部部長備詢。"],["邱委員志偉：地方財政收支已經改善得非常顯著，中央補助地方的金額屢創新高，你看，這個從蔡總統到我們賴總統，改善了地方的財務結構，讓地方政府長、短期的債都逐年下降，對地方政府的補助逐年增加，明年會創新高到1兆151億。在這種現況之下，地方補助逐年增加，財務狀況也明顯的改善，院長跟部長，您對當前國民黨主導財劃法的修正，你們認為有它的急迫性跟必要性嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，跟委員報告，首先就急迫性來講，也就是說，如同這張表格所呈現的，地方的財政已經大幅改善，從原來的短絀，到去年已經有賸餘648億。換言之，地方的財政在中央大幅度的挹注以及各自的努力之下，已經有大幅的改善。換言之，它的財政狀況是不錯的，這是第一點。第二個，以目前來說，國民黨版……"],["邱委員志偉：我打斷你，沒有必要性……"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有那個急迫性……"],["邱委員志偉：也沒有必要性？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，然後再加上……"],["邱委員志偉：現狀是非常好的，趨勢也不錯？"],["莊部長翠雲：現狀以地方財政來說，事實上，你看，債務也持續下降，然後也有賸餘，去年整體達648億……"],["邱委員志偉：那為什麼好的趨勢、好的現象，他要改變呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前來看，國民黨版要求中央大幅釋出6,612億，這個對中央來說，會造成中央施政上很大的一個困難，因為……"],["邱委員志偉：所以中央財源會更加窘迫。"],["莊部長翠雲：會更加窘迫。"],["邱委員志偉：過去任何的計畫型補助都會沒有了。"],["莊部長翠雲：你看，計畫型補助以114年來說就有2,911億元，如果說中央要再增加釋出一年6,612億，幾乎就是沒有一個彈性可以來做調整了。"],["邱委員志偉：所以很多中央的重大施政都會受到延宕或者影響？"],["莊部長翠雲：都會受到影響。"],["邱委員志偉：這是國家的危機，是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，因為就我們中央來說，法定義務支出就達到1兆8,000億……"],["邱委員志偉：為什麼一個反對黨會製造國家的危機呢？我百思不得其解，我徹夜輾轉難眠，這個問題請部長回去再跟在野黨好好溝通，我擔心他明後天強渡關山。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝部長。另外，我請國發會主委跟經濟部郭部長。","院長，投資臺灣三大方案必須要有轉型的規劃。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱委員志偉：要怎麼轉型？我想包括產業的轉型，還有過去是在臺投資的外商。目前只有針對在臺投資，未來對全球的外商，是不是來臺灣投資也可以有相關的政策補貼？像美國、日本對於半導體業者，它是強烈的補貼、高額的補貼，除了政策補貼跟行政協助之外，我們有沒有可能再用租稅優惠？"],["卓院長榮泰：如何把臺灣的產業帶向國際或是如何歡迎國際的產業投資到臺灣，經濟部一直有一個不錯的想法，這個要經過思考之後再落實，我們請部長來說明一下。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們的投資臺灣辦公室有在進行對全球的企業，我們都有在招商，那半導體的部分……"],["邱委員志偉：不僅是現在在臺投資的外商，全球外商都有？"],["郭部長智輝：全球外商都有，我們現在就是針對半導體、AI等五大信賴產業，都對他們發出訊息，歡迎他們到臺灣來投資。"],["邱委員志偉：所以過去的投資臺灣三大方案，第一個，它會延期，對不對？它會延期、延長時效，另外也增加更多的產業。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員志偉：也歡迎全世界所有外商都來臺灣投資。"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝。好，最後一個問題，請教交通部陳部長。"],["主席：麻煩請交通部長備詢。"],["邱委員志偉：前瞻特別預算負擔過去八年的軌道建設，大概支應了38%、接近四成經費，我希望在未來能夠推出前瞻3.0或者類似前瞻的相關經費，因為在未來有很多軌道建設，如果前瞻只到2.0，沒有繼續推出3.0或者類前瞻計畫，相關的、後續的軌道建設都會受到嚴重影響。以高雄市為例，高雄市捷運紅線為什麼做得成？就是因為有前瞻建設的軌道建設經費。現在我們的捷運紫線也送到交通部進行可行性研究，我想部長跟院長都支持，但它的經費高達近2,000億，如果沒有前瞻，只靠市政府預算，是沒有辦法興建捷運紫線的，這個部分院長是不是可以再思考一下？為了國家長期發展，也為了南北均衡的軌道建設。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有前瞻之後，相關交通建設可能就必須回歸到公務預算，而每個地方政府在提出計畫之前必須要有完整的財務規劃，這對地方政府而言，都是一個很沉重的壓力。"],["邱委員志偉：對每一個地方政府都是沉重壓力，有壓力當然會有動力，但端靠他的財源不足以成為足夠動力，一定需要類似前瞻3.0的計畫來支應，所以我希望是不是從財源來思考，既然可行性研究已經在做，但巧婦難為無米之炊，希望行政院能夠延續過去的思維，編列前瞻3.0來支應未來的軌道建設。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們來想辦法看跨縣市的建設如何能夠銜接起來，如果強弱不均的話，是很難執行的。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝院長。"],["主席：謝謝邱志偉委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在議場2樓旁聽再增加臺北市百齡高中國中部的老師跟同學，歡迎大家，歡迎。","接下來請登記第26號徐欣瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}