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我們的國家做好準備沒有"},{"start":216.567,"end":220.931,"text":"我問你,我問你,現在如果是1以後我們的國防預算要增加成我們GDP的10%目前我們的國防預算是多少?"},{"start":220.931,"end":221.331,"text":"卓院長"},{"start":238.666,"end":242.009,"text":"目前我們的國防預算是多少?我們在明年度編的國防預算包括所有的這個"},{"start":264.104,"end":264.164,"text":"應該是2.34之間吧"},{"start":281.372,"end":309.558,"text":"對啦!你這個還回答得很正確啊!我給你丟地了!這個很重要的事情!對!阿!不過我要請教你的是如果按照川普他的要求候選人、總統候選人他現在的要求未來他如果當選的話他希望台灣可以增加國防預算到我們GDP的10%現在GDP明年預估是多少?"},{"start":310.598,"end":315.02,"text":"26兆4千億那10%是多少?2.6兆那我會請教你我們只會在這個地方從事我們自己應該有的採購作業我要問你的是今年我們國家的政府總預算是多少錢?稅入多少?"},{"start":340.236,"end":340.537,"text":"稅率是3兆1521對不對,3兆1500"},{"start":345.455,"end":345.815,"text":"所以你保證"},{"start":373.868,"end":397.788,"text":"你保證我們的國防預算絕對不會增加委員我想我們都是會依照我們的作戰時需來進行我們必要的國防預算的編列那國防預算的穩定的成長是我們一貫的政策那我們一定會按照我們整個國土防衛構想所需要的這個能力建構來進行我們必要的"},{"start":398.308,"end":424.148,"text":"會不會讓國防預算排擠到我們其他的我們的長照預算我們的社福預算我們的教育預算所有的法定支出呢會不會我們過去幾年不會未來也絕對不會在國家經濟會發展的結果過去沒有可是明天如果在國際上發生了重大的變數的時候會不會"},{"start":425.624,"end":452.478,"text":"怎麼保證?要怎麼做到?第一個是假設誰當選的問題。第二個是當選之後,美國的...你要怎麼樣保證我們政府的,不管是社福、長照,還有我們的醫療預算以及教育預算,不會被國防預算排擠?要怎麼保證?你要怎麼保證?明年的預算已經在這裡了。只要大院通過,我們就照這個通過的預算執行。"},{"start":453.1,"end":480.411,"text":"我想要知道的是,你要如何維持?明年?後年呢?後年我們在上半年邊概算的時候,我們就會衡量後年的需求。但是不可能有一個非常巨幅的改變,改變到整個我們這個所有預算依照正式別的比例分配。但是我認為我們要調整的是其他支出的一些調整,可以調整,但是不會像委員所顧慮、擔憂的那個現象。"},{"start":481.943,"end":501.252,"text":"我不是在顧慮也不是在擔憂但是明天如果是這樣子的情境發生的時候我們的行政院到底做好了像什麼樣子的準備那還有他在競選的時候說他認為我們的台積電是偷他們的美國的晶片生意"},{"start":501.872,"end":525.201,"text":"那有人在說,會不會在他當選之後,要求台積電要從台灣下市,從美國,在美國上市,會不會發生這樣子的問題?會不會?我不知道,我要問你啊。因為這都是,這都是不可知的變數。"},{"start":527.217,"end":554.912,"text":"他能回答嗎?還是有其他人?有關委員關心因為美國是民主的國家選舉或政黨輪替這都是常態我們也都做好準備各種選舉的結果我們都有相應的做法基本上我們對台美關係是有信心至於台積電我想基本上它是外資的占多數的公司"},{"start":555.672,"end":556.993,"text":"二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．謝衣鳯二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．謝衣鳯"},{"start":581.181,"end":585.082,"text":"所以對於台積電對於台灣最重要保護我們區域安全的這樣的一間公司不會受到相關的影響是不是"},{"start":604.588,"end":621.124,"text":"基本上這個供應鏈來講還有整個上中下游的分工那當然在製程上面我們是有它的優勢可是整個半導體的供應鏈還有上游還有中游還有下游所以還是以美國佔最大的一個比例"},{"start":621.784,"end":642.734,"text":"所以這個是一個互補的關係那晶片法案它也是一個立法通過的我想這個都會在這個法律的基礎下來持續的執行所以在這一點上面倒是不用太擔心另外就是其實在美國方面的不管媒體還有這個半導體的專家也都持續的有發言"},{"start":643.514,"end":646.655,"text":"我最後還是要請問院長其實我們知道即便是今天"},{"start":668.786,"end":689.648,"text":"我們的總預算沒有通過過去我看到了在95、96年的時候即便那時候是陳水扁擔任總統的時候在96年的年中才通過了政府的預算但是因為根據我們預算法只要是"},{"start":690.549,"end":706.986,"text":"法定支出的只要是經常性支出是沒有問題的為什麼最近很大的爭議都是在在野黨黨預算所以讓我們的政府部門沒有經費我認為這是我們行政院需要澄清的部分"},{"start":708.2,"end":736.122,"text":"報告委員我們國家正處於一個高度的創新研發的時代各項的產業要新興向榮新的產業一直在增加外國的廠商也一直會進來所以對很多的新興項目對很多的新增的項目你終於講真話了吧對於新增的項目才有影響對於接續性的沒有影響是不是但是新增跟新興項目如果沒有辦法從1月份開始執行的話"},{"start":736.903,"end":740.007,"text":"即便是公務員的加薪從明年開始,我們未來在預算通過後,我們也可以再來支付是不是?"},{"start":752.344,"end":770.883,"text":"我早上講過了對軍公教人員或許我們還可以對他們訴諸以理但是對很多人民急迫的需求健康福利的照顧一日都不能耽誤很多國際的合作合作之下我們這個共同的信任關係也不能夠破壞所以我還是誠懇的希望"},{"start":771.544,"end":772.404,"text":"問題是我們在這個中間溝通的過程當中"},{"start":791.415,"end":812.682,"text":"執政黨並沒有充分的告訴民眾啊我們現在充斥著在外面的這個新聞的資訊裡面你沒有告訴民眾啊我們即便是預算沒有過也不會有這些問題而是新興的計畫沒有辦法來產生你們在民間告訴民眾的就是"},{"start":815.243,"end":818.567,"text":"預算連過都沒有過我們的預備金也沒有啊"},{"start":832.128,"end":852.89,"text":"我是說你們還是可以這個是根據預算法你是可以動用的啊是不是委員你說我們沒有提出我們的方法我們的方法一直寫在這裡可是委員一直強調的是你的問題後來不去看我的方法那我如果方法提出來大家來看我是說我現在是說你就是一直在用這樣那如果你一直在"},{"start":854.19,"end":880.42,"text":"誣衊在野黨的時候沒有一個良性的溝通未來大家沒有辦法再繼續討論下去啊我們在立法院的政治協商也沒有辦法繼續進行啊是不是沒有誣衊在野黨甚至我們在這裡是很誠懇的希望大家能夠在互相尊重情況底下就憲法跟法律的精神跟規定建立一個可以完全互動的模式這是唯一的原則如果建立起來今年我們來解決"},{"start":881.62,"end":908.142,"text":"預算能夠讓他如期的上路這對大家都好我們希望說在立法院所有立法委員職責當然是監督預算我相信不只是我們在野黨的你們執政黨的也想要監督政府的預算執行啊是不是那是不是應該給予執政黨就應該給予立法院有充分的空間可以監督預算嗎"},{"start":908.843,"end":909.023,"text":"謝謝謝衣鳯委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1351,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（15時52分）謝謝韓院長，我想要請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["謝委員衣鳯：卓院長好。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我有很多很多預算的問題要跟你說，因為彰化縣有很多問題，像0到6歲國家養，針對0到2歲的小朋友，現在我們有10個鄉鎮都沒有托嬰中心，同時也需要二點多億經費；然後今年因為憲法法庭的判決，導致了代理教師他們職前的年資需要增加，所有的經費大概是多少？光彰化縣就需要8,000萬到1億；還有非常多的問題，像過去在前瞻裡面，我們要改善交通，包括停車的部分，未來會不會繼續編？像和美就很需要，因為它是人口密集、人口成長的區域，未來可能需要相關的交通建設。","不過，我想了想，還有一個很大很大的問題需要解決，這比我們今天的總預算還重要的問題，你知道美國現在要發生什麼事情嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：美國很高興地在選總統。"],["謝委員衣鳯：他們在選總統，是不是？前幾天外交部吳志中說他very worry，請問他在擔憂的是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：「worry」這個字，如果回看他的原文、他的話，應該是這個字有被放大了，他說我們在選舉過程當中聽到的一些政策……"],["謝委員衣鳯：他在擔憂什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：但是他有說，未來的事情應該是變化不大的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是在擔憂明天美國總統選舉結果是川普總統當選還是賀錦麗總統當選嗎？他在擔憂什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是我們心裡要有準備，我看他的全文是這樣說。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還是擔憂我們行政院都沒有準備？我今天不是要談押寶誰，而是我們的政府對於未來美國總統是誰當選，我們有沒有做好所有相關的規劃？包括scenario 1、scenario 2……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員你在這裡應該要有信心。"],["謝委員衣鳯：任何企業現在都要做好準備。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當然有準備……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我要問你，如果明天當選美國總統的是川普，行政院做了什麼準備？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是假設性問題，現在我們不能隨便在這裡說一定是誰，或不一定……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我問的是scenario 1，我說的是scenario 1！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們等美國民主選舉之後……"],["謝委員衣鳯：這是假設情境一，如果明天是川普當選總統，這樣請問我們國家做好準備沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員諒解……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我問你……"],["卓院長榮泰：外交事務不能用這種假設狀況……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我問你，明天如果是他當選，他說過我們的國防預算要增加到GDP的10%……"],["卓院長榮泰：我只能向委員保證……"],["謝委員衣鳯：目前我們的國防預算是多少，卓院長？"],["卓院長榮泰：我只能肯定告訴委員一件事……"],["謝委員衣鳯：目前我們的國防預算是多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：不管明天選出來的美國總統是誰，我們一定誠心誠意恭喜他。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我知道不管選出來的是誰都要恭喜他，不過我要請教你的是，我們的國防預算現在是多少錢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在明年度編的國防預算，包括所有的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：特別預算加上……"],["卓院長榮泰：對……"],["謝委員衣鳯：是6,470億，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：占目前整體GDP的多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：應該是2.3%、2.4%之間吧！"],["謝委員衣鳯：你這個還回答得很正確，我恭喜你。"],["卓院長榮泰：這是很重要的事。"],["謝委員衣鳯：不過我要請教你的是，按照川普的要求，他現在是總統候選人的要求，未來他如果當選的話，希望臺灣可以增加國防預算到GDP的10%。現在預估明年GDP是多少？26兆4,000億，那10%是多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員也知道我們不可能在一夕之間把國防預算擴大……"],["謝委員衣鳯：2.6兆！我請教你……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會衡量保衛國家安全所需要的各項政策及武器需求，我們只會在這個地方從事我們自己應該有的採購作業。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我要問你的是，今年我們國家的政府總預算是多少錢？歲入多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：歲入是3兆1,524億。"],["謝委員衣鳯：3兆1,500億，對不對？歲出呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：3兆1,325億。"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果按照他的要求把我們的國防預算增加為GDP的10%時，那麼所有預算都會被國防預算排擠，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員保證，不會有那樣一夕之間的變化，而且我們自己要衡量我們自己的需求，這是一個主權國家最起碼有的為國家的態度！"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你保證？你保證我們的國防預算絕對不會增加？"],["顧部長立雄：委員，我們會依照我們的作戰實需來進行必要的國防預算編列。國防預算的穩定成長是我們一貫政策，我們一定會按照整個國土防衛構想所需要的人力建構來進行必要的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：會不會讓國防預算排擠到其他的預算，如長照預算、社福預算和我們的教育預算及所有的法定支出？會不會？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們過去幾年不會，未來也絕對不會！在國家經濟發展的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：目前沒有，可是明天如果國際上發生重大變數時，會不會？怎麼保證？要怎麼做到？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個是假設誰當選的問題，第二個是當選之後，美國的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你要怎麼保證政府的，不管是社福、長照，還有我們的醫療預算、教育預算不會被國防預算排擠？"],["卓院長榮泰：明年的預算已經在這裡了！"],["謝委員衣鳯：你要怎麼保證？"],["卓院長榮泰：明年的預算已經在這裡了，只要大院通過，我們就照這個通過的預算執行。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想要知道的是你要如何維持？後年呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：後年我們在明年上半年編概算的時候，就會衡量後年的需求，但不可能有非常巨幅的改變，改變到所有預算依照政事別所做的比例分配。但是，我認為我們要調整的是其他支出的一些調整，可以調整，但是不會像委員所顧慮、擔憂的那個現象。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我不是在顧慮，也不是在擔憂，但是明天如果有這樣子的情境發生的時候，我們的行政院到底做好了什麼樣的準備？還有，他在競選的時候說，他認為我們的台積電是偷他們美國的晶片生意，有人在說，會不會在他當選之後要求台積電要從臺灣下市，在美國上市，會不會發生這樣的問題？會不會？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員你認為可能嗎？"],["謝委員衣鳯：我不知道，我要問你啊！因為這都是……"],["卓院長榮泰：這個都是假議題……"],["謝委員衣鳯：這都是不可知的變數！"],["卓院長榮泰：我請部長答復一下。"],["謝委員衣鳯：他能回答嗎？還是有其他人？"],["卓院長榮泰：部長清楚的。"],["林部長佳龍：是，有關委員的關心，因為美國是民主國家，選舉或政黨輪替都是常態，我們也都做好準備，各種選舉的結果，我們都有相應的做法，基本上，我們對於台美關係是有信心的。至於台積電，基本上它是外資占多數的公司啦，當然我們臺灣是掌握了製造的技術，而且它在美國的股市上面也一樣都是有上市的，我想這一點是全球的，不是只有臺灣的，而且我們台積電每賺1塊，美國相對來講可能賺3塊以上……"],["卓院長榮泰：它也有相當的……"],["林部長佳龍：所以是互補的、是雙贏的，所以不會有傷害自己的事情發生，我想對美國來說是如此。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以對於台積電，對於臺灣最重要，保護我們區域安全的這樣一間公司不會受到相關影響，是不是？"],["林部長佳龍：基本上，以供應鏈來講，還有整個上、中、下游的分工，當然，在製程上我們是具有優勢，但是整個半導體的供應鏈還有上游、中游、下游，所以還是以美國占最大的比例，所以這是一個互補的關係。晶片法案也是立法通過的，我想這都會在法律的基礎下持續的執行，所以在這一點上面倒是不用太擔心。","另外，其實在美國方面，不管媒體或半導體專家也都持續的有發言去澄清，有一些可能因為是政治人物講話的風格，但基本上如果就事論事，我們有信心可以來溝通、來說明，取得更好的互信跟合作。"],["謝委員衣鳯：最後還是要請問院長，其實我們知道，即便是今天我們的總預算沒有通過，過去我看到在95、96年的時候，那是陳水扁擔任總統的時候，即便在96年年中才通過政府的預算，但是根據我們的預算法，只要是法定支出，只要是經常性支出，是沒有問題的，為什麼最近很大的爭議都是說在野黨擋預算，所以讓我們政府部門沒有經費，我認為這是我們行政院需要澄清的部分。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們國家正處於一個高度創新研發的時代，各項產業要欣欣向榮，新的產業一直在增加，外國的廠商也一直會進來，所以對很多的新興項目，對很多的新增項目，如果……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你終於講真話了吧！對於新增的、新興的項目才有影響……"],["卓院長榮泰：如果我們現在沒有辦法從1月開始執行的話……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對於接續性的沒有影響，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：但是新增跟新興項目如果沒有辦法從1月份開始執行的話，拖多久我們就會延多久，國家的進步就會慢多久。"],["謝委員衣鳯：即便是公務員的加薪從明年開始，未來在預算通過後，我們也可以再來支付，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我早上講過了，對軍公教人員，或許我們還可以對他們訴諸以理，但是對很多人民急迫的需求、健康福利的照顧，一日都不能耽誤，很多的國際合作，在合作之下，我們的共同信任關係也不能夠破壞，所以我還是誠懇的希望、理性的拜託，今天的預算報告之後能夠付委，讓它順利通過，如實如期的在新的年度開始執行，所有的新興計畫一併上路，國家發展的角度跟速度一定會比現在快。"],["謝委員衣鳯：問題是我們在中間的溝通過程當中，執政黨並沒有充分的告訴民眾啊！我們現在充斥著，在外面的新聞資訊裡面，你沒有告訴民眾啊，我們即便是預算沒有過，也不會有這些問題，而是新興計畫沒有辦法來產生，你們……"],["卓院長榮泰：這就是大問題啊，委員，這就是大問題啊！"],["謝委員衣鳯：你們在民間告訴民眾的就是，風災來了，如果預算沒有通過，你就沒有辦法補助，問題是你們還是可以動用你們的預備金啊，是不是？有災害預備金啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：如果預算連過都沒有過，我們的預備金也沒有啊！"],["謝委員衣鳯：我是說你們還是可以，根據預算法你是可以動用的，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你說我們沒有提出我們的方法，我們的方法一直寫在這裡，可是委員一直強調的是你的問題，從來不去看我們的方法，我們的方法提出來了，大家來看……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我現在是說你就是一直用這樣，如果你一直污衊在野黨的話，沒有一個良性的溝通，未來大家沒辦法再繼續討論下去啊，我們在立法院的政治協商也沒有辦法繼續進行啊，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有污衊在野黨，甚至我們在這裡是很誠懇的希望大家能夠在互相尊重的情況下，就憲法跟法律的精神跟規定，建立一個可以完全互動的模式，這就是唯一的原則，如果建立起來，今年我們來解決，預算讓它能夠如期上路，這對大家都好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們希望在立法院，所有立法委員的職責當然是監督預算，我相信不只是我們在野黨的，你們執政黨的也想要監督政府的預算執行啊，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯、沒錯，所以我們尊重立法院的……"],["謝委員衣鳯：那執政黨是不是就應該給予立法院有充分的空間可以監督預算嘛……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們非常……"],["謝委員衣鳯：而不是這樣子不讓立法院來正常運作，我認為……"],["卓院長榮泰：依照憲法，行政院絕對尊重立法院的審查權，行政院對於自己預算權的原則，我們也要極力的爭取跟保障。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，可是我認為執政黨應該要讓我們所有的立法委員可以充分的討論。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我期待今天有非常好的……"],["主席：謝謝謝衣鳯委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在休息10分鐘。","休息（16時7分）","繼續開會（16時18分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","麥玉珍","鍾佳濱","羅智強","王定宇","牛煦庭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","郭國文","邱鎮軍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","謝衣鳯","郭昱晴","高金素梅","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","王美惠"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-11-05"],"gazette_id":"1138801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年\n度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─\n詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138801_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}