{"error":false,"id":["156519"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":156519,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156519","日期":"2024-11-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-19-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-11-06T09:23:27+08:00","結束時間":"2024-11-06T09:32:35+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:08","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b367300d5b4eae7d654fa50054efaf5dec98f8113ce54f74c60b9d8b43f1d7f7b919a22b82dabb035ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"09:23:27 - 09:32:35","會議時間":"2024-11-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院主計總處首長、勞動部首長、教育部首長、財政部首長就「我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策，暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工薪資水準」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員就「我國傳統產業及中小企業發展困境探討、因應對策及相關振興方案」進行報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.87471875,"end":2.3934687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.03346875,"end":14.172218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.269718750000003,"end":11.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.42534375,"end":15.302843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.437843750000003,"end":17.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.33534375,"end":28.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.617218750000003,"end":32.430968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.549093750000004,"end":34.455968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.759718750000005,"end":38.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.52284375,"end":39.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.602843750000005,"end":41.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.66159375,"end":44.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.59784375,"end":45.525968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.846593750000004,"end":46.690343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.977218750000006,"end":51.432218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.60096875,"end":52.275968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.71471875,"end":53.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.92534375,"end":55.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.02221875,"end":56.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.338468750000004,"end":60.46034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.439093750000005,"end":63.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.35846875,"end":66.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.82221875,"end":67.36221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.39596875000001,"end":70.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.49659375,"end":72.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.74534375,"end":75.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.56346875,"end":76.84596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.50409375000001,"end":78.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.38971875,"end":82.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.53284375000001,"end":87.66284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.13534375,"end":89.92409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.78471875000001,"end":91.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.74659375,"end":94.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.08784375,"end":97.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.14659375000001,"end":100.87596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.70284375,"end":104.09909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.41971875,"end":109.54971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.25846875,"end":110.62971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.27096875000001,"end":113.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.54909375000001,"end":118.64534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.55659375,"end":121.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.58159375000001,"end":124.14659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.73721875000001,"end":125.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.83409375000001,"end":128.85471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.47909375,"end":131.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.88784375,"end":136.38096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.85346875000002,"end":141.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.89909375000002,"end":142.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.46846875,"end":152.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.76659375,"end":154.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.90971875,"end":157.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.43659375000001,"end":159.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.34346875,"end":161.35596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.60909375,"end":165.06846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.91221875000002,"end":168.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.02971875,"end":176.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.64471875,"end":180.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.03221875,"end":182.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.56346875,"end":186.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.44471875000002,"end":196.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.92846875,"end":198.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.13909375,"end":202.54784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.15534375000001,"end":203.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.58971875,"end":211.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.04409375,"end":216.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.62159375000002,"end":218.14034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.88284375,"end":220.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.89971875,"end":219.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SP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我的這個在企業上面所聽到的"},{"start":213.083,"end":213.263,"text":"邀請經濟部部長．"},{"start":235.79,"end":261.547,"text":"在現在雖然美國大選還沒有正式結果出來我會問這個議題因為在現在這個時間點我們所看到的確實川普的一個領先幅度比較高所以我覺得我們還是要讓我們台灣的企業有些穩定軍心就是說不論是誰當選基本上它就是一個政治的議題選舉的議題"},{"start":264.051,"end":287.817,"text":"對於在整個晶片產業鏈當中影響不會很大甚至所謂收保護費這個知識體大不是一個總統說我要收保護費就可以收保護費那請問保護費的意義是什麼意涵是什麼就像剛剛部長所說的當你企業有這個需求的時候你要收什麼保護費"},{"start":289.721,"end":308.837,"text":"對不對?企業是有需求的阿美國企業有這個需求大家都在排單都在等著我們給單我們還用這樣的所謂晶片護國神山要去打國家隊世界盃所以我覺得這個本來對於我們來講我為什麼要用這個議題來詢問重點我們要穩住軍情"},{"start":312.66,"end":338.551,"text":"我現在問國發會主委因為主委也是從企業界轉到我們這個所謂的行政團隊那麼在你的看法呢我先跟委員說明一下如果他收保護費受到傷害的是Apple、NVIDIA、AMD、Intel這些國際大廠所以川普是生意人他不至於去收保護費造成他"},{"start":339.171,"end":354.016,"text":"與美國產品受到更高的成本,漲價出來,影響到民意。第二個部分,台積電當年有配合它進到了亞利桑那去生產,所以有三個廠對美國的安定已經存在了。所以我認為這是一個選舉語言,"},{"start":355.797,"end":384.244,"text":"因為他要實質實施會比較困難反倒是他會對中國企業開徵60%的稅然後逐年會減少對中國的進口這個反而對台商是一個好的機會第二個部分是他會擴大像類似對華為等等這種公司的禁令這個禁令對台商也是一個比較好的機會所以我比較正向去看這件事然後我們也會鼓勵台商勇於抓住機會去發展更好的未來"},{"start":385.264,"end":405.136,"text":"謝謝主委,其實這個就是我們今天的重點了因為我們通常在媒體上都看到所謂的要收保護費可是我們沒有去看到川普在另外一個區塊對於中國企業所做的限制甚至他在一個稅的部分要提高60%"},{"start":406.957,"end":430.316,"text":"那麼如果相較之下在於收保護費在我們的評斷這根本就是不可行因為這是一個市場趨勢也就像我們主委所說的不是只有台積電啊要說保護費你可以說我只要說台積電的保護費嗎不可能啊它所涉及的是一些世界大廠"},{"start":431.377,"end":457.678,"text":"那麼所影響的層面絕對美國會先受傷所以這知識體大可是對於中國他的標的非常的清楚對於中國的企業他已經說了他要去做一些限制甚至要提高關稅這個部分他講得非常的明確所以我們都認為在今天這個主題當中我們希望"},{"start":458.803,"end":470.457,"text":"如何讓我們的產業界更安心尤其今天大家開始關注的都是美國大選到底是誰當選當選之後會不會影響到台灣的一個經濟和中國的經濟"},{"start":475.723,"end":496.66,"text":"所以在川普目前大幅領先的狀態我才會用這個議題來詢問我們的部長跟主委因為我們的部長跟主委剛剛好都是從企業界非常非常資深而且在領域當中都非常有成就的轉戰到我們的行政"},{"start":497.685,"end":525.879,"text":"所以在這樣的前提之下我們希望藉著你們在企業的經驗跟行政來做結合我們不希望像我們剛剛所提的報告所謂的中小企業他未來的整個青年低薪還有如何做傳產的振興這些如果只有像我們書面他做不了真的是做不了我們必須結合你們兩位在第一線"},{"start":527.02,"end":546.859,"text":"在第一線曾經有的經驗結合進來不能再用制式的一些行政理念如果可以的話我們不用每一次都在談論這個議題好 謝謝好 所以再麻煩我們的部長跟主委麻煩你們了 謝謝好 非常謝謝陳廷輝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":262,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時23分）謝謝召委，請部長還有主委。"],["主席：請郭部長跟劉主委。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，今天大家都在關注美國大選，到底是賀錦麗當選還是川普？我想這兩位當選，現在可能對於臺灣比較大的影響，大家會比較關注的是川普在選前的那一番發言，所謂的台積電奪走了美國百分之一百的晶片事業，所以他認為要向臺灣、台積電來收保護費這樣的議題。你認為這個議題是真的議題還是假的議題，還是它就是一個選舉過程的一段話而已？因為你們兩個都是產業界過來的，由你們的角度來回答。我想先請部長回答。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。這個命題是在選舉之間所提出來的，在這個期間、還沒有確定之前，我們只能討論，就是比較不公開的來討論，以因應這個命題。如果你要問我，我是不是可以用個人的想法？好像不太行用個人想法來回復你的問題。不過以我們在企業界的觀點來看，臺灣的經濟跟美國的經濟其實是互補的，就川普在選前提出的這個命題，其實它是互補的，臺灣在晶片供應鏈上非常的強，但是對供應鏈設計的部分，美國大概占全球供應鏈的7、80%。所以，如果有這樣的現象發生的時候，我相信對美國的業者並不見得是一件好事，這是第一點。","第二點，我們看到台積電在Arizona設廠，那個廠到現在已經完全試產成功了，所以下個月他們將會有一個很好的ceremony要發出。我們在看，不管美國的新總統是誰，應該都會開出對台積電最有利的條件，畢竟台積電在先進製程上，所謂的先進製程，大家都知道是7奈米以下的製程，幾乎是它一人的武林，所以你再怎麼限制，都沒有辦法限制它的發展，因為市場有強烈的需求。所以不管誰當選，我在企業上所聽到的跟我所發現的，對臺灣應該……特別是對台積電應該影響不大。"],["陳委員亭妃：影響不大？包括他所謂的可能會撤銷晶片法案，其實很多人都認為這根本就是假議題，因為也不是一黨說了算、一個人說了算。"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：為什麼現在美國大選還沒有正式結果出來，我會問這個議題？因為在現在這個時間點，我們看到確實川普的領先幅度比較高，所以我覺得我們還是要讓臺灣企業穩定軍心。也就是不論是誰當選，基本上就是一個政治的議題、選舉的議題，對於整個晶片產業鏈，影響不會很大，甚至所謂的收保護費，這是茲事體大，不是一個總統說我要收保護費就可以收保護費，請問保護費的意義是什麼、意涵是什麼？就像剛剛部長所說的，當企業有這個需求的時候，你要收什麼保護費？對不對？企業是有需求的啊！美國企業有這個需求，大家都在排單，都在等著我們給單，我們還用這樣的晶片護國神山要去打國家隊世界杯，我為什麼要用這個議題來詢問？重點是我們要穩住軍心。","我現在問國發會主委，因為主委也是從企業界轉到行政團隊，那麼你的看法呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：先跟委員說明一下。如果他收保護費，受到傷害的是Apple、NVIDIA、AMD、Intel這些國際大廠，川普是生意人，他不至於去收保護費，造成美國產品受到更高的成本而漲價，影響到民意。第二個部分，台積電當年有配合他進到亞利桑那去生產，有三個廠，對美國的安定已經存在了。所以我認為這是一個選舉語言，因為他要實質實施會比較困難；反倒是他會對中國企業開徵60%的稅，然後會逐年減少對中國的進口，這反而對臺商是一個好的機會。第三個部分是他會擴大類似像對華為等等這種公司的禁令，這個禁令對臺商也是一個比較好的機會，所以我比較正向去看這件事，我們也會鼓勵臺商勇於抓住機會，去發展更好的未來。"],["陳委員亭妃：謝謝主委，其實這就是我們今天的重點，因為我們在媒體上都看到所謂的要收保護費，可是我們沒有看到川普在另外一個區塊對於中國企業所做的限制，甚至在稅的部分他要提高至60%。相較之下，收保護費這件事在我們的評斷，這根本就是不可行，因為這是一個市場趨勢，就像主委所說的，不是只有台積電，要收保護費，你可以說我只要收台積電的保護費嗎？不可能啊！它所涉及的是一些世界大廠，所影響的層面，美國絕對會先受傷，所以這是茲事體大。可是對於中國，他的標的非常清楚，對於中國的企業，他已經說了，他要去做一些限制，甚至要提高關稅，這個部分他講得非常地明確。","所以在今天這個主題當中，我們都希望讓我們的產業界更安心，尤其今天大家關注的都是美國大選到底是誰當選？當選之後會不會影響到臺灣的經濟和中國的經濟？在川普目前大幅領先的狀態，我才會用這個議題來詢問部長跟主委，因為部長跟主委剛好都是在企業界非常、非常資深，而且在領域當中都非常有成就，轉戰到行政團隊。在這樣的前提之下，我們希望藉由你們在企業的經驗跟行政來結合，我們不希望像剛剛所提的報告，中小企業的未來、整個青年低薪問題，還有如何做傳產的振興，這些如果只有像書面所提到的，他做不了，真的是做不了，必須結合你們兩位在第一線曾經有的經驗，不能再用制式的行政理念。如果可以的話，我們不用每一次都在談論這個議題，所以再麻煩部長跟主委，麻煩你們了，謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝陳亭妃委員，部長跟主委請先回座。林委員稍微等一下，我們確定一下議事錄。","我們先確定議事錄。請問在場委員，針對上次會議議事錄，有無錯誤？（無）沒有錯誤，議事錄確定。","下一位請林岱樺委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-10","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","林岱樺","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","葉元之","許宇甄","賴士葆","陳冠廷","牛煦庭","羅智強","王鴻薇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-06"],"gazette_id":"1139401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院主計總處首長、勞動部首長、教育部首\n長、財政部首長就「我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策，暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工薪\n資水準」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員就「我國傳統產\n業及中小企業發展困境探討、因應對策及相關振興方案」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}