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House所有的生產都是在台灣那麼台灣的影響力是非常大美國的Design House佔全球你是說台灣對美國晶片的影響力很大還是我們出口到美國的產值對台灣的經濟影響非常重大這兩回事"},{"start":162.929,"end":184.17,"text":"這個報告委員我想這個是很清楚的因為你也是經濟學博士所以你非常清楚這樣的一個結果我們基於這個觀察我認為在半導體這一個部分影響應該不大因為它既存的事實台積電在先進製程是一個人的武林"},{"start":185.117,"end":210.408,"text":"那麼20奈米以上的這些傳統製程基本上臺灣還是非常具有經驗跟這個市場的競爭能力所以美國的廠商美國的設計廠商佔了70%所以這個是很難去改變的一個事實所以我們雖然有這樣的一個製造的技術"},{"start":211.348,"end":215.931,"text":"但是美國的商務部對於台灣就是對於美國的晶片法案台灣等大型晶片廠商他們就是還沒付款是不是"},{"start":241.618,"end":266.076,"text":"要等到年底嗎?是不是?我金星主委知道那個跟委員報告台積電現在最新的消息就是他在美國那個廠是運作的非常的順暢所以下個月12月份他們會有一個Ceremony這個Ceremony的時候我的預計他們可能會再公告他下一個廠建置的時間所以會不會撥款?"},{"start":268.124,"end":293.805,"text":"會不會撥款?美國的晶片法案會不會撥款?對,他會跟這個美國請款因為現在美國那個晶片法案的補助阿阿如果川普大選會不會撥款?那個什麼英特爾的老闆都出來講說我到現在投了300億美金但是他的補助都還沒拿到所以我們有可能也沒有辦法拿到是不是?但是那個錢對台積電來講其實太小"},{"start":295.938,"end":317.232,"text":"台積電投資一個廠,投資一個廠300多年你沒有看到那個誰?劉主委是不是?他在你旁邊臉色都變了委員是這樣喔,因為當時補助是有一定的Milestone那台積電即將會達到Milestone然後量產之後Milestone到達他就會去清換"},{"start":319.262,"end":332.54,"text":"因為這個晶片法是法令除非將來在中參議院會重新修訂或是廢掉它的時候才有可能否則它不會改變它是一個法定它必須依法來進行"},{"start":334.141,"end":335.241,"text":"我完全贊同劉祖偉的這個看法"},{"start":362.608,"end":388.603,"text":"你贊同他是不是?我給你看我們的數字我們出口的數字是什麼?中國對中國大陸的哎呀他弄錯了啦他做powerpoint做錯我們對中國大陸還有香港怎麼樣?整個比例雖然已經逐年降低還有35%對於美國呢有17%今年提高到20%"},{"start":389.844,"end":399.527,"text":"如果兩邊都增加的情況下那對於臺灣的經濟影響是什麼過去主計總處有說如果大陸的經濟下滑1%的時候對臺灣的經濟影響是0.2%那這樣子的情況下如果美國對大陸可以重稅的時候我們會不會對臺灣的經濟造成影響"},{"start":419.113,"end":419.573,"text":"怎樣?"},{"start":419.573,"end":420.714,"text":"郭部長你說?"},{"start":420.714,"end":428.417,"text":"你怎麼樣?報告委員 我的看法還是一樣就是對臺灣的影響是正向的正向的?"},{"start":428.417,"end":435.36,"text":"是怎麼樣?不會有影響我還有下一張喔不會有影響嗎?"},{"start":435.36,"end":448.305,"text":"為什麼?你說啊 你要有論述啊因為美國會對中國加大的稅金那這個中國的而第二個就是說科技的產品它幾乎啊"},{"start":449.105,"end":449.145,"text":"主席"},{"start":470.091,"end":483.891,"text":"我們現在因為跟美國經濟非常的很大啦所以現在美國都要求我們不能夠這個民主聯盟的國家不能夠把這個產品賣到蘇俄賣到這個中國"},{"start":486.755,"end":487.356,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":504.389,"end":532.531,"text":"跟委員報告其實原來我們在中國跟香港我們最高的時候會將近到48%左右的出口值現在逐年下滑那你可能不知道最近的內卷中國的內卷其實傷到台灣的企業非常的重包括甚至最近低潤也出現這個現象但是隨著美國對這個禁令的加壓反而有助於形成兩個不同的世界對我們是有幫助的可以堵住中國的內卷造成對我們的傷害"},{"start":534.032,"end":534.652,"text":"好的,非常感謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:51:42.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:51:42.369000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:51:42.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:51:46.893000+08:00","text":"我想要請郭部長跟劉主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T09:51:48.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:51:48.534000+08:00","text":"請經濟部郭部長、國發會劉主委。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:52:09.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:52:09.774000+08:00","text":"委員早。早。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:52:11.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:52:22.080000+08:00","text":"這是昨天我為什麼在院會質詢的，我想要了解的是，今天美國大選什麼時候會出爐？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:52:22.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:52:22.801000+08:00","text":"你們有沒有掌握？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:52:24.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:52:26.263000+08:00","text":"掌握我們經濟命脈的兩位首長都沒掌握？","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:52:27.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:52:31.245000+08:00","text":"美國大選結果什麼時候會出爐？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T09:52:31.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:52:33.106000+08:00","text":"我們估計還要至少四、五天。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:52:33.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:52:34.427000+08:00","text":"還要四、五天是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T09:52:34.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:52:38.289000+08:00","text":"對，因為這次通信投票的比例將近一半。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:52:38.289000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:52:40.684000+08:00","text":"所以還沒有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T09:52:40.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:52:48.191000+08:00","text":"時間會跟上次一樣拉得很久，因為這次很膠著，也會跟上次一樣，可能要等到最後一個州出來。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:52:48.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:00.723000+08:00","text":"這是高盛證券對於美國大選四個scenario，我想要了解行政院對於美國大選的scenario是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:00.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:00.883000+08:00","text":"兩位誰可以回答？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:05.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:06.847000+08:00","text":"郭部長，你來講。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:06.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:07.387000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我想……","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:07.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:08.768000+08:00","text":"你勇敢的講。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:08.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:15.012000+08:00","text":"我都會對我們自己負責的範圍做出scenario。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:15.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:16.753000+08:00","text":"對，那你對你的經濟呢？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:18.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:18.935000+08:00","text":"對川普呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:19.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:25.139000+08:00","text":"如果川普當選，昨天劉主委說了，差異會比較大，是不是？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:25.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:33.970000+08:00","text":"我們看到川普說：臺灣偷走我們的晶片！","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:34.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:34.891000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:35.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:36.092000+08:00","text":"為什麼這個是他？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:36.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:37.394000+08:00","text":"你回答啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:37.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:39.356000+08:00","text":"你回答啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:39.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:43.940000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我想這個命題是他的選舉語言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:45.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:46.202000+08:00","text":"你覺得是選舉語言？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:46.202000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:48.084000+08:00","text":"對，所以我會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:48.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:50.687000+08:00","text":"他會不會對臺灣的晶片課以重稅？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:50.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:50.807000+08:00","text":"會不會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:50.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:52.228000+08:00","text":"他說的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:52.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:53:53.590000+08:00","text":"他在Podcast說的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:53:55.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:54:04.992000+08:00","text":"臺灣對美國來講，美國這麼多Design House，所有的生產都是在臺灣，臺灣的影響力非常大。對。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:54:06.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:54:07.934000+08:00","text":"美國的Design House占全球……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:54:08.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:54:19.881000+08:00","text":"你是說臺灣對美國晶片的影響力很大，還是我們出口到美國的產值對臺灣的經濟影響非常重大？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:54:20.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:54:20.581000+08:00","text":"這兩個是兩回事！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:54:24.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:54:31.696000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我想這個是很清楚的，因為你也是經濟學博士，所以你非常清楚這樣的一個結果。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:54:32.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:54:58.362000+08:00","text":"我們基於觀察，我認為在半導體這個部分，影響應該不大，因為它既存的事實，台積電在先進製程是一個人的武林，且20奈米以上的傳統製程，基本上臺灣還是非常具有經驗跟市場的競爭能力。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:55:02.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:55:12.408000+08:00","text":"美國的設計廠商占了百分之七十，這個是很難去改變的事實，我們有這樣一個製造的技術，它一定要來找我們，能夠影響的就是譬如說剩下的可能去找中國，中國可能占了十幾個percent。","quality":0.388},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:55:12.408000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:55:13.408000+08:00","text":"他對中國要課以更重的稅，是不是？對啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:55:13.408000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:55:14.408000+08:00","text":"反正以前在中國下單的通通會跑來臺灣啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:55:13.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:55:17.911000+08:00","text":"但是美國的商務部對於美國的晶片法案，臺灣等大型晶片廠商，他們就是還沒付款，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:55:43.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:55:44.339000+08:00","text":"要等到年底嘛！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:55:44.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:55:45.179000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:55:47.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:55:47.541000+08:00","text":"劉鏡清主委知道？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:55:48.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:07.336000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，台積電現在最新的消息，它在美國那個廠運作得非常順暢，所以下個(12)月他們會有一個ceremony，這個ceremony，我的預計，他們可能會再公告下一個廠建置的時間。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:07.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:08.056000+08:00","text":"所以會不會撥款？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:10.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:10.304000+08:00","text":"會不會撥款？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:11.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:13.287000+08:00","text":"美國的晶片法案會不會撥款？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:15.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:19.071000+08:00","text":"它會向美國請款，因為現在美國晶片法案的補助……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:19.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:21.533000+08:00","text":"如果川普當選，會不會撥款？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:24.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:27.498000+08:00","text":"Intel的老闆都出來說：我到現在投了300億美金。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:27.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:29+08:00","text":"但是他的補助都還沒拿到！","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:30.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:31.862000+08:00","text":"所以呢？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:31.862000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:32.862000+08:00","text":"所以兩邊都沒拿到啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:31.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:34.064000+08:00","text":"所以我們有可能也沒有辦法拿到，是不是？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:34.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:35.785000+08:00","text":"那個錢對台積電來講其實太小。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:35.785000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:39.199000+08:00","text":"不重要是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:39.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:40.520000+08:00","text":"台積電投資一個廠300億美金……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:42.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:47.324000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，你沒有看到劉主委，他在你旁邊臉都變了。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:47.324000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:48.325000+08:00","text":"來，讓他講。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:48.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:56:59.091000+08:00","text":"委員，是這樣，因為當時補助有一定的milestone，台積電即將達到milestone，量產之後milestone達到就會去請款。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:56:59.091000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:57:01.262000+08:00","text":"所以下個月？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T09:57:01.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:57:14.520000+08:00","text":"因為晶片法是法令，除非將來在眾參議院重新修訂或廢掉，才有可能，否則它不會改變，它是一個法令，必須依法來進行。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:57:14.520000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:57:15.520000+08:00","text":"我早上沒注意到您有來，我以為只有郭部長來，所以我特別引用了昨天劉主委的話，他認為美國對中國大陸會增60%的稅，臺灣頂多增10%的稅，但是這個東西對臺灣是利大於弊嗎？","quality":0.014},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:57:15.520000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:57:16.520000+08:00","text":"我想要問郭部長您的看法是怎麼樣？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:57:16.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:57:17.221000+08:00","text":"我完全贊同劉主委的看法。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:57:44.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:57:45.489000+08:00","text":"您贊同他，是不是？是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:57:46.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:57:47.350000+08:00","text":"我給你看我們的數字。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:57:47.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:57:50.051000+08:00","text":"我們出口的數字是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:57:57.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:06.941000+08:00","text":"我們對中國大陸還有香港，整個比例雖然已經逐年降低還有35%；對於美國呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:07.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:17.366000+08:00","text":"有17%，今年提高到20%，如果兩邊都增加的情況下，對於臺灣的經濟影響是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:17.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:21.527000+08:00","text":"過去主計總處有說，如果大陸的經濟下滑1%的時候，對臺灣的經濟影響是2%，這樣的情況下，如果美國對大陸課以重稅的時候，會不會對臺灣的經濟造成影響？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:41.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:44.434000+08:00","text":"郭部長，您覺得怎麼樣？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:44.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:48.436000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我的看法還是一樣，對臺灣的影響是正向的。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:49.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:49.676000+08:00","text":"正向的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:49.676000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:50.676000+08:00","text":"對，因為那個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:50.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:51.677000+08:00","text":"是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:51.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:53.378000+08:00","text":"不會有影響？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:53.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:54.178000+08:00","text":"我還有下一張喔。對。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:55.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:57.360000+08:00","text":"不會有影響嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:57.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:57.920000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:58.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:58:59.320000+08:00","text":"您要有論述啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:58:59.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:59:09.124000+08:00","text":"因為美國會對中國加大稅金，第二個，科技的產品包含紅色供應鏈，美國都強烈的要求，這些過去可能從中國進口的東西……","quality":0.408},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:59:09.124000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:59:14.865750+08:00","text":"那是半導體，我們還有傳產啊！","quality":0.083},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:59:14.865750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:59:20.607500+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:59:20.607500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:59:26.349250+08:00","text":"我們傳產不在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:59:26.349250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:59:32.091000+08:00","text":"傳產受影響的就業人口數、中小企業，是95%所有的勞工。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:59:32.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T09:59:45.891000+08:00","text":"我們現在因為跟美國的經濟融合很大，所以現在美國都要求民主聯盟國家，不能夠將產品賣到蘇俄、賣到中國，它是非常強烈的要求，包括伊朗，包括北韓。好。","quality":0.651},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T09:59:45.891000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:59:52.723667+08:00","text":"所以這些訂單過去是這樣，未來通通會到臺灣企業的身上。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:59:52.723667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T09:59:59.556333+08:00","text":"好，我想要問一下劉主委，所以您還是主張利大於弊嗎？","quality":0.045},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T09:59:59.556333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:00:06.389000+08:00","text":"您那句話沒有錯嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T10:00:06.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T10:00:15.997000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實原來我們在中國跟香港，最高的時候會到48%左右的出口值，現在逐年下滑。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T10:00:17.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T10:00:34.511000+08:00","text":"您可能不知道最近中國的內捲，其實傷到臺灣企業非常的重，包括甚至DRAM也出現這樣的現象，但是隨著美國對這禁令的加壓，反而有助於形成兩個不同的世界，對我們是有幫助的，也可以堵住中國內捲對我們造成的傷害。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T10:00:35.011000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:00:50.439571+08:00","text":"我們必須看到，未來如果整個都加稅的情況下，在臺灣對中國大陸的進口也非常多的情況下，會不會對臺灣的經濟造成重大的影響？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-11-06T10:00:50.739571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:05.025286+08:00","text":"我認為和經濟有關最主要的兩個，部長應該要對臺灣的經濟非常非常的重視，您們應該要有各種情境的推演，好不好？好。好。","quality":0.02},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:05.325286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:11.039571+08:00","text":"好，非常感謝謝衣鳯委員，部長跟主委請回座，謝謝。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:11.339571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:14.482429+08:00","text":"下一位請邱議瑩委員質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:14.782429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:18.211000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們請一下郭部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:18.511000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:19.511000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:19.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:20.811000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:21.111000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:35.968143+08:00","text":"部長，我想今天有幾個問題請教您，最近國營事業換人的幅度還蠻大的，部長，您在國營事業換人的過程裡面，有跟哪些人討論過？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:36.268143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:38.553857+08:00","text":"討論的時間是多久？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:38.853857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:42.853857+08:00","text":"您剛剛講的是國營事業的高層吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:43.153857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:50.011000+08:00","text":"對，國營事業的董事長、總經理，現在換人的幅度是很大的吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:50.311000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:51.311000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:51.611000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:55.611000+08:00","text":"是，我想這個部分牽涉到整個國家……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:55.911000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:58.482429+08:00","text":"有沒有跟誰討論過了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:01:58.782429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:01:59.782429+08:00","text":"當然有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:00.082429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:02.368143+08:00","text":"討論的時間是多久？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:02.668143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:08.096714+08:00","text":"這個部分在我上任以後，大概從6月份開始討論……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:08.396714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:12.396714+08:00","text":"所以從6月份開始討論，是這樣嗎？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:12.696714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:18.696714+08:00","text":"好，這個是昨天你們的中油董事長跟總經理交接。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:18.996714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:21.282429+08:00","text":"部長，您沒有去嘛？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:21.582429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:28.153857+08:00","text":"您們內部的同仁說因為您在開會，所以您沒有去參加。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:28.453857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:31.311000+08:00","text":"由經濟部政次去監交。對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:31.611000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:37.896714+08:00","text":"我要請教的是，中油董事是什麼時候知道自己要被換？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:38.196714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:40.196714+08:00","text":"大概兩個月前吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:40.496714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:43.353857+08:00","text":"兩個月前就知道了嗎？嗯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:43.653857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:46.511000+08:00","text":"那什麼時候通知他？3天前？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:46.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:48.525286+08:00","text":"這個我不清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:48.825286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:51.682429+08:00","text":"3天前通知他，您不清楚。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:51.982429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:02:55.982429+08:00","text":"這是您們的公文，您們的公文喔！是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:02:56.282429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:03:03.996714+08:00","text":"10月30日發文給他，11月4日生效，兩個工昨天就叫人家滾蛋、走路，這是中油。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:03:04.296714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:03:06.868143+08:00","text":"報告委員，我想在之前……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:03:07.168143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:03:10.882429+08:00","text":"您之前告訴他，什麼時間告訴他？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:03:11.182429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:03:18.039571+08:00","text":"這我不管，但您有沒有明確的跟他說，大概什麼時候要換人？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:03:18.339571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:03:19.339571+08:00","text":"要準備？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:03:19.639571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:03:24.496714+08:00","text":"即使是要換人，您也要給人家時間交接嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:03:24.796714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:03:32.796714+08:00","text":"來，這個是台糖，台糖28日簽公文，30日叫人家滾蛋、走路，10月4日交接，這是台糖。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:03:33.096714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:03:34.096714+08:00","text":"台船呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:03:34.396714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:03:52.682429+08:00","text":"也是一樣，台船董事長一紙公文，告訴鄭文隆下台就換人，台船總經理更可憐，在台船工作了52年，只剩下10天就要退休了，您禮拜五一紙公文，禮拜一就要換人、走人。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:03:52.982429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:04:08.125286+08:00","text":"部長，您經營過一間公司啊，您看到一個52年的老員工，一紙公文叫他立刻滾蛋，他還對著台船鞠躬的時候，您內心不會感到很難過嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:04:08.425286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:04:16.711000+08:00","text":"您知道我看到這張照片，我眼淚都掉下來了，我不知道我們政府怎麼了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:04:17.011000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:04:29.868143+08:00","text":"我今天身為一個執政黨的立法委員，我很久沒有在這裡怒罵執政黨的官員，這個政府什麼時間變得這麼慘忍？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:04:30.168143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:04:34.453857+08:00","text":"這個政府什麼時間變得這麼不人道？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:04:34.753857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:04:39.896714+08:00","text":"這個政府什麼時間變得不懂得什麼是尊重？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:04:40.196714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:04:42.482429+08:00","text":"尊重兩個字很難嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:04:42.782429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:04:53.353857+08:00","text":"一個做了這麼久的官員，您要換誰我都沒有意見，但是我覺得對人起碼的尊重應該要有吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:04:53.653857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:04:55.653857+08:00","text":"應該要有吧？委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:04:55.953857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:04:59.382429+08:00","text":"郭董事長，您同意我的看法嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:04:59.682429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:05:05.111000+08:00","text":"您過去經營一個公司，你的公司會這樣換人嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:05:05.411000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:05:15.125286+08:00","text":"或許會，因為你是民間公司，你說換就換，你不想要用這個人，說fire就fire。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:05:15.425286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:05:20.568143+08:00","text":"可是一個國家的機器，國家可以這樣換人嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:05:20.868143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:05:26.296714+08:00","text":"報告委員，我想，我們換人都會尊重法律的規定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:05:26.596714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:05:31.739571+08:00","text":"您尊重法律的規定，但是您沒有尊重個人嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:05:32.039571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:05:38.039571+08:00","text":"我沒有說您不可以換掉他，我講的是「尊重」兩個字。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:05:38.339571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:05:44.911000+08:00","text":"28日給他一個公文，他剩下10天要退休了，您多等他10天很難嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:05:45.211000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:05:48.353857+08:00","text":"讓他有尊嚴的退休很難嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:05:48.653857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:05:56.368143+08:00","text":"30日給他一個公文，11月4日交接，只有兩個工作天，他連打包都來不及啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:05:56.668143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:05:58.953857+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員的指教。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:05:59.253857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:06:02.396714+08:00","text":"這些人一輩子奉獻在國家……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:06:02.696714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:06:28.411000+08:00","text":"我想，剛剛委員所指導的「尊重」兩個字，我們回去部內會深刻的檢討，為什麼在程序上面會造成這樣的現象，造成當事人不舒服，這一點我感同身受，所以我們回去會就過去這幾個個案深刻的檢討，希望能夠改善這樣的現象。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:06:28.711000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:06:57.568143+08:00","text":"部長，其實這不是只有您們的問題，對盧天麟也是這樣，一紙公文叫人家走人，對蔡煌瑯也是這樣，一紙公文叫人家走人，不是只有國營司，司長，您擔任國營司司長這麼久，我不相信過去您們處理人事是這樣處理的，你們過去處理人事，是這樣處理的嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:06:57.868143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:07:00.439571+08:00","text":"我可以請國營司司長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡司長文中","start":"2024-11-06T10:07:00.739571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:07:15.596714+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，事實上現在處理大概都是我們收到行政院公文以後，我們會給公司有一段時間安排董事會，所以絕對不會是當天。","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡司長文中","start":"2024-11-06T10:07:15.896714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:07:33.325286+08:00","text":"我們會等到公司已經把董事會的時間確定出來，跟董事長報告怎麼安排以後，我們再發公文，這樣才可以確保公司不會沒有董事長而用代理的方式。","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡司長文中","start":"2024-11-06T10:07:33.625286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:08:00.482429+08:00","text":"所以看起來，雖然公文可能是前兩天拿到的，但是原來的董事會跟董事長都已經提前知道，否則我們不會安排這個時間，因為如果不把董事會安排好，可能會有7、8天的時間，這個公司是沒有董事長的，我們現在的處理方式大概是這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:08:00.782429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:08:03.925286+08:00","text":"確定你們是這樣處理的嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"胡司長文中","start":"2024-11-06T10:08:04.225286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:08:06.796714+08:00","text":"對，我們都有先跟公司……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:08:07.096714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:08:16.811000+08:00","text":"司長，我如果再問下去，你們真的會很難堪，我再問下去，真的是打執政黨一個大巴掌。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:08:17.111000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:08:28.825286+08:00","text":"我講了，很多國營事業，我對你用什麼人，我沒有意見；但我對於你不懂得尊重這件事情，我非常有意見！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:08:29.125286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:08:45.125286+08:00","text":"今天主席安排的議程要討論加薪、要討論這些東西，但如果政府部門自己連基本的尊重都做不到，你不要跟我談你的施政會多有效果啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:08:45.425286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:08:47.139571+08:00","text":"民心都不在啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:08:47.439571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:08:54.296714+08:00","text":"郭董事長，您在當董事長的時候，應該不會這樣治理公司吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:08:54.596714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:09:04.025286+08:00","text":"您說你要把治理公司那一套拿來治理經濟部，您治理公司的時候不會這樣子吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:09:04.325286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:09:08.039571+08:00","text":"這個是讓我覺得最痛心的地方！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:09:08.339571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:09:19.768143+08:00","text":"接二連三，這一個多月來，國營事業的人事汰換，我必須再一次講，我覺得你們連基本的尊重都沒有！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:09:20.068143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:09:27.496714+08:00","text":"我看到台船總經理這張照片，我內心真的非常非常非常地難過！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:09:27.796714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:09:34.653857+08:00","text":"在台船工作了52年，竟然被你們一紙公文，就這樣子掃地出門？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:09:34.953857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:09:40.953857+08:00","text":"你叫台船公司的員工如何對這個公司盡心盡力呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:09:41.253857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:09:47.253857+08:00","text":"你叫中油公司的員工如何對這個公司盡心盡力呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:09:47.553857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:09:51.839571+08:00","text":"只要一紙公文就可以讓人家滾蛋啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:09:52.139571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:09:55.853857+08:00","text":"你叫這些人如何為公司賣命呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:09:56.153857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:10:05.011000+08:00","text":"如果你的崇越集團也是這樣子對待員工的話，這些人如何為你的公司賣命？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:10:05.311000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:10:07.882429+08:00","text":"就這麼簡單的道理嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:10:08.182429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:10:17.039571+08:00","text":"你今天要講加薪，如果帶人不能帶心的話，這個國家的治理是會很有問題的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:10:17.339571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:10:31.625286+08:00","text":"我不知道一個治理企業的部長來到經濟部之後，反而是這樣子對待國營事業的董監事、董事長，如此處理國營事業的人事。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:10:31.925286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:10:36.211000+08:00","text":"我後面的東西，我也不想問了，我只是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:10:36.511000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:10:41.082429+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，這個部分我們會深刻地檢討。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2024-11-06T10:10:41.382429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:10:50.525286+08:00","text":"部長，我真的要表達我非常非常地憤怒，我覺得你們對「尊重」這兩個字完全不懂。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T10:10:50.825286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:10:53.111000+08:00","text":"是，我們會回去檢討。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T10:10:53.411000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:10:57.696714+08:00","text":"謝謝邱議瑩委員，部長跟次長請回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T10:10:57.996714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:11:03.139571+08:00","text":"待會張嘉郡委員質詢完之後，我們休息7分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T10:11:03.439571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T10:11:06.582429+08:00","text":"下一位質詢請賴瑞隆委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":370,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（9時52分）謝謝主席。我想要請郭部長跟劉主委。"],["主席：請經濟部郭部長、國發會劉主委。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["謝委員衣鳯：早。這是昨天我為什麼在院會質詢的，我想要了解的是，今天美國大選什麼時候會出爐？你們有沒有掌握？掌握我們經濟命脈的兩位首長都沒掌握？美國大選結果什麼時候會出爐？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們估計還要至少四、五天。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還要四、五天是不是？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，因為這次通信投票的比例將近一半。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以還沒有……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：時間會跟上次一樣拉得很久，因為這次很膠著，也會跟上次一樣，可能要等到最後一個州出來。"],["謝委員衣鳯：這是高盛證券對於美國大選四個scenario，我想要了解行政院對於美國大選的scenario是什麼？兩位誰可以回答？郭部長，你來講。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你勇敢的講。"],["郭部長智輝：我都會對我們自己負責的範圍做出scenario。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，那你對你的經濟呢？對川普呢？如果川普當選，昨天劉主委說了，差異會比較大，是不是？我們看到川普說：臺灣偷走我們的晶片！是不是？為什麼這個是他？你回答啊！你回答啊！"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想這個命題是他的選舉語言。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你覺得是選舉語言？"],["郭部長智輝：對，所以我會……"],["謝委員衣鳯：他會不會對臺灣的晶片課以重稅？會不會？他說的啊！他在Podcast說的。"],["郭部長智輝：臺灣對美國來講，美國這麼多Design House，所有的生產都是在臺灣，臺灣的影響力非常大。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對。"],["郭部長智輝：美國的Design House占全球……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你是說臺灣對美國晶片的影響力很大，還是我們出口到美國的產值對臺灣的經濟影響非常重大？這兩個是兩回事！"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想這個是很清楚的，因為你也是經濟學博士，所以你非常清楚這樣的一個結果。我們基於觀察，我認為在半導體這個部分，影響應該不大，因為它既存的事實，台積電在先進製程是一個人的武林，且20奈米以上的傳統製程，基本上臺灣還是非常具有經驗跟市場的競爭能力。美國的設計廠商占了百分之七十，這個是很難去改變的事實，我們有這樣一個製造的技術，它一定要來找我們，能夠影響的就是譬如說剩下的可能去找中國，中國可能占了十幾個percent。"],["謝委員衣鳯：他對中國要課以更重的稅，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：對啊！反正以前在中國下單的通通會跑來臺灣啊！"],["謝委員衣鳯：但是美國的商務部對於美國的晶片法案，臺灣等大型晶片廠商，他們就是還沒付款，是不是？要等到年底嘛！是不是？劉鏡清主委知道？"],["郭部長智輝：跟委員報告，台積電現在最新的消息，它在美國那個廠運作得非常順暢，所以下個(12)月他們會有一個ceremony，這個ceremony，我的預計，他們可能會再公告下一個廠建置的時間。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以會不會撥款？會不會撥款？美國的晶片法案會不會撥款？"],["郭部長智輝：它會向美國請款，因為現在美國晶片法案的補助……"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果川普當選，會不會撥款？"],["郭部長智輝：Intel的老闆都出來說：我到現在投了300億美金。但是他的補助都還沒拿到！"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以呢？"],["郭部長智輝：所以兩邊都沒拿到啊！"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以我們有可能也沒有辦法拿到，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：那個錢對台積電來講其實太小。"],["謝委員衣鳯：不重要是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：台積電投資一個廠300億美金……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我跟你講，你沒有看到劉主委，他在你旁邊臉都變了。"],["郭部長智輝：來，讓他講。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員，是這樣，因為當時補助有一定的milestone，台積電即將達到milestone，量產之後milestone達到就會去請款。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以下個月？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：因為晶片法是法令，除非將來在眾參議院重新修訂或廢掉，才有可能，否則它不會改變，它是一個法令，必須依法來進行。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我早上沒注意到您有來，我以為只有郭部長來，所以我特別引用了昨天劉主委的話，他認為美國對中國大陸會增60%的稅，臺灣頂多增10%的稅，但是這個東西對臺灣是利大於弊嗎？我想要問郭部長您的看法是怎麼樣？"],["郭部長智輝：我完全贊同劉主委的看法。"],["謝委員衣鳯：您贊同他，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我給你看我們的數字。我們出口的數字是什麼？我們對中國大陸還有香港，整個比例雖然已經逐年降低還有35%；對於美國呢？有17%，今年提高到20%，如果兩邊都增加的情況下，對於臺灣的經濟影響是什麼？","過去主計總處有說，如果大陸的經濟下滑1%的時候，對臺灣的經濟影響是2%，這樣的情況下，如果美國對大陸課以重稅的時候，會不會對臺灣的經濟造成影響？郭部長，您覺得怎麼樣？"],["郭部長智輝：跟委員報告，我的看法還是一樣，對臺灣的影響是正向的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：正向的。"],["郭部長智輝：對，因為那個……"],["謝委員衣鳯：是怎麼樣？不會有影響？我還有下一張喔。"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：不會有影響嗎？為什麼？您要有論述啊！"],["郭部長智輝：因為美國會對中國加大稅金，第二個，科技的產品包含紅色供應鏈，美國都強烈的要求，這些過去可能從中國進口的東西……"],["謝委員衣鳯：那是半導體，我們還有傳產啊！是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：我們傳產不在……"],["謝委員衣鳯：傳產受影響的就業人口數、中小企業，是95%所有的勞工。"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在因為跟美國的經濟融合很大，所以現在美國都要求民主聯盟國家，不能夠將產品賣到蘇俄、賣到中國，它是非常強烈的要求，包括伊朗，包括北韓。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。"],["郭部長智輝：所以這些訂單過去是這樣，未來通通會到臺灣企業的身上。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，我想要問一下劉主委，所以您還是主張利大於弊嗎？您那句話沒有錯嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告，其實原來我們在中國跟香港，最高的時候會到48%左右的出口值，現在逐年下滑。您可能不知道最近中國的內捲，其實傷到臺灣企業非常的重，包括甚至DRAM也出現這樣的現象，但是隨著美國對這禁令的加壓，反而有助於形成兩個不同的世界，對我們是有幫助的，也可以堵住中國內捲對我們造成的傷害。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們必須看到，未來如果整個都加稅的情況下，在臺灣對中國大陸的進口也非常多的情況下，會不會對臺灣的經濟造成重大的影響？我認為和經濟有關最主要的兩個，部長應該要對臺灣的經濟非常非常的重視，您們應該要有各種情境的推演，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好。"],["主席：好，非常感謝謝衣鳯委員，部長跟主委請回座，謝謝。","下一位請邱議瑩委員質詢。"],["邱委員議瑩：謝謝主席，我們請一下郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長早。部長，我想今天有幾個問題請教您，最近國營事業換人的幅度還蠻大的，部長，您在國營事業換人的過程裡面，有跟哪些人討論過？討論的時間是多久？"],["郭部長智輝：您剛剛講的是國營事業的高層吧？"],["邱委員議瑩：對，國營事業的董事長、總經理，現在換人的幅度是很大的吧？對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是，我想這個部分牽涉到整個國家……"],["邱委員議瑩：有沒有跟誰討論過了？"],["郭部長智輝：當然有。"],["邱委員議瑩：討論的時間是多久？"],["郭部長智輝：這個部分在我上任以後，大概從6月份開始討論……"],["邱委員議瑩：所以從6月份開始討論，是這樣嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，這個是昨天你們的中油董事長跟總經理交接。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長，您沒有去嘛？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：您們內部的同仁說因為您在開會，所以您沒有去參加。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：由經濟部政次去監交。"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：我要請教的是，中油董事是什麼時候知道自己要被換？"],["郭部長智輝：大概兩個月前吧？"],["邱委員議瑩：兩個月前就知道了嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：嗯。"],["邱委員議瑩：那什麼時候通知他？3天前？"],["郭部長智輝：這個我不清楚。"],["邱委員議瑩：3天前通知他，您不清楚。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：這是您們的公文，您們的公文喔！"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：10月30日發文給他，11月4日生效，兩個工昨天就叫人家滾蛋、走路，這是中油。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想在之前……"],["邱委員議瑩：您之前告訴他，什麼時間告訴他？這我不管，但您有沒有明確的跟他說，大概什麼時候要換人？要準備？即使是要換人，您也要給人家時間交接嘛！","來，這個是台糖，台糖28日簽公文，30日叫人家滾蛋、走路，10月4日交接，這是台糖。台船呢？也是一樣，台船董事長一紙公文，告訴鄭文隆下台就換人，台船總經理更可憐，在台船工作了52年，只剩下10天就要退休了，您禮拜五一紙公文，禮拜一就要換人、走人。","部長，您經營過一間公司啊，您看到一個52年的老員工，一紙公文叫他立刻滾蛋，他還對著台船鞠躬的時候，您內心不會感到很難過嗎？您知道我看到這張照片，我眼淚都掉下來了，我不知道我們政府怎麼了？我今天身為一個執政黨的立法委員，我很久沒有在這裡怒罵執政黨的官員，這個政府什麼時間變得這麼慘忍？這個政府什麼時間變得這麼不人道？這個政府什麼時間變得不懂得什麼是尊重？尊重兩個字很難嗎？一個做了這麼久的官員，您要換誰我都沒有意見，但是我覺得對人起碼的尊重應該要有吧？應該要有吧？"],["郭部長智輝：委員……"],["邱委員議瑩：郭董事長，您同意我的看法嗎？您過去經營一個公司，你的公司會這樣換人嗎？或許會，因為你是民間公司，你說換就換，你不想要用這個人，說fire就fire。可是一個國家的機器，國家可以這樣換人嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想，我們換人都會尊重法律的規定。"],["邱委員議瑩：您尊重法律的規定，但是您沒有尊重個人嘛！我沒有說您不可以換掉他，我講的是「尊重」兩個字。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：28日給他一個公文，他剩下10天要退休了，您多等他10天很難嗎？讓他有尊嚴的退休很難嗎？30日給他一個公文，11月4日交接，只有兩個工作天，他連打包都來不及啊！"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員的指教。"],["邱委員議瑩：這些人一輩子奉獻在國家……"],["郭部長智輝：我想，剛剛委員所指導的「尊重」兩個字，我們回去部內會深刻的檢討，為什麼在程序上面會造成這樣的現象，造成當事人不舒服，這一點我感同身受，所以我們回去會就過去這幾個個案深刻的檢討，希望能夠改善這樣的現象。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長，其實這不是只有您們的問題，對盧天麟也是這樣，一紙公文叫人家走人，對蔡煌瑯也是這樣，一紙公文叫人家走人，不是只有國營司，司長，您擔任國營司司長這麼久，我不相信過去您們處理人事是這樣處理的，你們過去處理人事，是這樣處理的嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我可以請國營司司長。"],["胡司長文中：跟委員報告，事實上現在處理大概都是我們收到行政院公文以後，我們會給公司有一段時間安排董事會，所以絕對不會是當天。我們會等到公司已經把董事會的時間確定出來，跟董事長報告怎麼安排以後，我們再發公文，這樣才可以確保公司不會沒有董事長而用代理的方式。所以看起來，雖然公文可能是前兩天拿到的，但是原來的董事會跟董事長都已經提前知道，否則我們不會安排這個時間，因為如果不把董事會安排好，可能會有7、8天的時間，這個公司是沒有董事長的，我們現在的處理方式大概是這樣。"],["邱委員議瑩：確定你們是這樣處理的嗎？"],["胡司長文中：對，我們都有先跟公司……"],["邱委員議瑩：司長，我如果再問下去，你們真的會很難堪，我再問下去，真的是打執政黨一個大巴掌。我講了，很多國營事業，我對你用什麼人，我沒有意見；但我對於你不懂得尊重這件事情，我非常有意見！今天主席安排的議程要討論加薪、要討論這些東西，但如果政府部門自己連基本的尊重都做不到，你不要跟我談你的施政會多有效果啦！民心都不在啦！郭董事長，您在當董事長的時候，應該不會這樣治理公司吧？您說你要把治理公司那一套拿來治理經濟部，您治理公司的時候不會這樣子吧？這個是讓我覺得最痛心的地方！接二連三，這一個多月來，國營事業的人事汰換，我必須再一次講，我覺得你們連基本的尊重都沒有！我看到台船總經理這張照片，我內心真的非常非常非常地難過！在台船工作了52年，竟然被你們一紙公文，就這樣子掃地出門？你叫台船公司的員工如何對這個公司盡心盡力呢？你叫中油公司的員工如何對這個公司盡心盡力呢？只要一紙公文就可以讓人家滾蛋啦！你叫這些人如何為公司賣命呢？如果你的崇越集團也是這樣子對待員工的話，這些人如何為你的公司賣命？就這麼簡單的道理嘛！你今天要講加薪，如果帶人不能帶心的話，這個國家的治理是會很有問題的。我不知道一個治理企業的部長來到經濟部之後，反而是這樣子對待國營事業的董監事、董事長，如此處理國營事業的人事。我後面的東西，我也不想問了，我只是……"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員，這個部分我們會深刻地檢討。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長，我真的要表達我非常非常地憤怒，我覺得你們對「尊重」這兩個字完全不懂。"],["郭部長智輝：是，我們會回去檢討。"],["主席：謝謝邱議瑩委員，部長跟次長請回座。待會張嘉郡委員質詢完之後，我們休息7分鐘。","下一位質詢請賴瑞隆委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-10","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","林岱樺","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","葉元之","許宇甄","賴士葆","陳冠廷","牛煦庭","羅智強","王鴻薇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-06"],"gazette_id":"1139401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院主計總處首長、勞動部首長、教育部首\n長、財政部首長就「我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策，暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工薪\n資水準」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員就「我國傳統產\n業及中小企業發展困境探討、因應對策及相關振興方案」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}