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這個齁我是根據我的這個專業第二個我認為啦齁這個是看這件事情要專家才有辦法來判斷那怎麼說呢所以我比較好奇的是你是不是被騙了還是被逼的沒有 我不被騙也不被逼這個都是我個人的這個這個理論基礎跟我個人的經驗"},{"start":463.454,"end":485.711,"text":"來做出來的這樣的建議部長本席曾聽您說過說可以不要做官所以本席在這裡呼籲你既然有這種guards說可以不要做官但千萬不能被框去背黑鍋我們有選擇要做對的事情對國家社會有意義的事情這一句話我留在這裡希望你要深思啊"},{"start":486.391,"end":503.542,"text":"那另外呢您又提起說要把我國的這個低階封裝高耗能的石化這個鋼鐵業移到菲律賓請問一下這個參與呂宋走廊這件事情你有跟其他部會溝通過嗎 有跟石化產業溝通過嗎"},{"start":505.538,"end":517.59,"text":"我們現在在進行可行性評估,可行性可以進行了,我們就開始進行產業的...所以你們可行性評估沒有過,你們就決定核定投資1062億喔?"},{"start":520.748,"end":534.032,"text":"你們在蔡英文總統卸任的最後一週通過中油新四清投資案為什麼這麼急?連你都不知道原因吧?合訂了1062億那個是在高雄喔我的資料上面寫說是要去投資呂宋島麻煩你們送詳細的資料給我 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":562,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（10時19分）主席，我想請經濟部長。"],["主席：請經濟部郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["張委員嘉郡：早安。部長，最近新聞沸沸揚揚，有關於中油董事長被無預警拔官，請問你事先知道這件事情嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：不是拔官啦！"],["張委員嘉郡：他說他拒絕參加交接，因為他沒有被事前通知他要被拔官。"],["郭部長智輝：可能是……有啦……"],["張委員嘉郡：這個人事是您同意的嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：人事是我同意的，要往上報啊！"],["張委員嘉郡：中油4日舉行董事長交接典禮，部長沒有出席是什麼原因呢？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，所有的國營事業董事長或總經理交接，過去都是由次長出席。"],["張委員嘉郡：目前中油工會的理事長就公開批評您是重電輕油，請問部長真的有重電輕油嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：對我來講，四大國營事業手心手背都是肉，我們在之前就已經有說明……"],["張委員嘉郡：您是中油的大老闆、大股東，為什麼他們交接沒有配合你的時間呢？"],["郭部長智輝：不是，過去都是由次長出席！"],["張委員嘉郡：那就是你不在意，你也不是很在意！"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想……"],["張委員嘉郡：我想要知道的是為什麼你不想去？是這個董事長的人選你不滿意嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：不是，我對中油的這一些幹部我都……"],["張委員嘉郡：我問你，滿不滿意？"],["郭部長智輝：包括你看看……"],["張委員嘉郡：你是不想出席為他背書嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：有關中油的事情，上上禮拜到員山挖地熱井，我也是親自出席啊！"],["張委員嘉郡：是啊，所以我就問你，為什麼中油董事長交接這麼重要，你不出席呢？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，慣例都是由次長出席啦！"],["張委員嘉郡：好，部長您說台電、中油手心手背都是肉，不是只是說說而已，本席今天就一題問你電、一題問你油。本席在10月16日就曾經問你說有關於菲律賓綠電輸送回臺的計畫，您說這個是草率發言，表示歉意。"],["郭部長智輝：我沒有草率發言。"],["張委員嘉郡：那一天……這個是有紀錄的，那一天你跟我說我草率了。"],["郭部長智輝：我不會用草率兩個字。"],["張委員嘉郡：有、有、有，你用了，我下次播影片給你看，你說表示歉意。但我最近發現您對菲律賓真的是情有獨鍾，甚至又多了一個參與呂宋經濟走廊的計畫，請問您最近又提到，是代表購買綠電的計畫已經成熟了嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們現在在進行可行性評估，這是一個世界的潮流，也就是說綠電的需求是世界的需求，那麼每一個國家……"],["張委員嘉郡：本席特別去查了一下，發現您在產業界的時候就想去菲律賓發展漁業了；現在您當經濟部長，心心念念的也是菲律賓，本席還滿想了解是什麼原因讓你對菲律賓這麼感興趣？因為你現在彷彿就是臺菲聯合經濟部長耶！"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我做國際貿易做很久，在國家之間，每一個地區的資源不會是一樣的，所以才會形成國際貿易，這些都是有經濟理論的。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，當然，我同意啊！我只是好奇說，我們周邊的國家還滿多的，特別喜歡菲律賓是為什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：它是我們的一個鄰國，然後它的資源……我在講要素資源理論，這個是非常重要的，因為它的人比較多；然後第二個，地方比較大；第三個，能源的資源比較多，所以我們在考慮的時候就可以從那個地方來處理。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，本席接下來再問你，既然您最近又討論到菲律賓買綠電，是不是已經有具體的數據分析？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在一直在進行中，看起來是非常樂觀。"],["張委員嘉郡：那您說向菲律賓購買綠電超過4元就不買，這個是您說的嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我說的。"],["張委員嘉郡：這個是專家計算的，是什麼專家？可不可以請部長跟大家分享？是什麼專家？"],["郭部長智輝：我今天沒有帶資料來。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你也不知道是什麼專家？"],["郭部長智輝：我當然知道是專……專家的名字是不能夠公告的。"],["張委員嘉郡：不會是雲豹專家吧？"],["郭部長智輝：雲豹？我在這裡鄭重地跟委員以及所有在這邊的貴賓報告：經濟部跟雲豹只有一個關係，它是向經濟部登記的公司，但是它也不是經濟部所屬的公司，也不是經濟部支持的公司！雲豹為了炒股票而講了很多不應該講的話。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以本席再問你，請問這個4塊是包含哪些成本？土地成本有包括嗎？資金成本有包括嗎？建置成本有包括嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我跟委員報告，如果這個地方夠大，平均的建置成本我們都可以看到1塊半以下。"],["張委員嘉郡：1塊半？"],["郭部長智輝：對，然後再加上您剛才所指導的土地成本、金融的成本還有運輸的成本……"],["張委員嘉郡：這樣算起來你每度電大概2塊5就有了耶！你這樣子計算方式是2.5元就有了耶！"],["郭部長智輝：那個是建置成本！"],["張委員嘉郡：建置成本？"],["郭部長智輝：對，然後它還要有利潤啊！"],["張委員嘉郡：所以本席在這裡提醒一下部長，您說的這些構想其實是非常可能造成國安危機的！更重要的是，您有可能被掮客騙了，您知道嗎？我們昨天才處理國發基金的不當投資調查委員會，因為國發會投資如興的時候慘賠了10億，前國發會主委龔明鑫說，他直接了當說他是被騙了，所以你們不是不會被騙！"],["郭部長智輝：不可能被騙。"],["張委員嘉郡：你千萬不要一股腦地去執行，最後被騙了。"],["郭部長智輝：不可能被騙……"],["張委員嘉郡：留下壞名聲的是你，債留全民耶！"],["郭部長智輝：被騙一定不是專家，我是這方面的專家，我不可能被騙。"],["張委員嘉郡：還是其實你不是被騙，我印象深刻，您說您是行政院的經濟部部長，也就是說是不是您是受到高層指示辦事，這件事是不是有高層指示你一定要去推動菲律賓的綠電？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我是根據我的專業；第二個，我認為這件事情要專家才有辦法來判斷，怎麼說呢？"],["張委員嘉郡：所以我比較好奇的是，你是不是被騙了？還是被逼的？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有，我不被騙也不被逼，這個都是我個人的理論基礎跟我個人的經驗做出來的建議。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長，本席曾聽您說過：可以不要做官。所以本席在這裡呼籲你，既然有這種guts說可以不要做官，但千萬不能被人誆去背黑鍋，要選擇做對的事情，對國家社會有意義的事情，這句話我留在這裡，希望你要深思。","另外，您又提起要把我國的低階封裝、高耗能的石化、鋼鐵業移到菲律賓，請問一下，參與呂宋走廊這件事情，你有跟其他部會溝通過嗎？有跟石化產業溝通過嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在在進行可行性評估，可行性可以進行了，我們就開始進行產業的……"],["張委員嘉郡：可行性評估還沒有過，你們就決定核定投資1,062億喔？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有這個吧？沒有這個1,062億……"],["張委員嘉郡：蔡英文總統卸任的最後一週通過中油新四輕投資案，為什麼這麼急？連你都不知道原因吧。"],["郭部長智輝：我不知道。"],["張委員嘉郡：核定了1,062億。"],["郭部長智輝：委員，那個是在高雄喔。"],["張委員嘉郡：它現在……"],["郭部長智輝：那個是在高雄喔。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["張委員嘉郡：我的資料上面寫說是要去投資呂宋島。"],["郭部長智輝：你的資料來源可能要再稍微correct一下。"],["張委員嘉郡：麻煩你們送詳細的資料給我，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：好的。"],["主席：謝謝張嘉郡委員，部長跟次長請回座。","現在我們要休息，休息時間由7分鐘修正成休息10分鐘。","休息（10時28分）","繼續開會（10時38分）"],["主席：請列席官員回座，現在我們繼續開會。","下一位質詢請張啓楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-10","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","林岱樺","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","鄭天財Sra 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