{"error":false,"id":["156539"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":156539,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156539","日期":"2024-11-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-19-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-11-06T10:38:54+08:00","結束時間":"2024-11-06T10:50:05+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:11","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b367300d5b4eae7df2a516292a495846ec98f8113ce54f74a2450328f9194eb431947d3c5364f5145ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"10:38:54 - 10:50:05","會議時間":"2024-11-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院主計總處首長、勞動部首長、教育部首長、財政部首長就「我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策，暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工薪資水準」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員就「我國傳統產業及中小企業發展困境探討、因應對策及相關振興方案」進行報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.769718750000003,"end":26.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.44034375,"end":27.722843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.93721875,"end":34.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.65409375,"end":39.923468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.39596875,"end":42.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.48846875,"end":50.166593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.33534375,"end":52.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.697843750000004,"end":53.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.31784375,"end":60.477218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.578468750000006,"end":65.69159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.19784375,"end":67.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.20596875000001,"end":69.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.48409375,"end":74.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.10784375,"end":86.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.61659375,"end":103.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.40909375000001,"end":91.84784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.18034375,"end":97.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.77846875,"end":106.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.37721875000001,"end":109.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.00534375000001,"end":111.40596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.82346875,"end":114.64596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.69659375,"end":116.50221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.21096875,"end":118.22346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.94909375,"end":122.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.86409375000001,"end":124.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.05784375,"end":126.45846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.93096875,"end":129.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.03596875,"end":133.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.91721875000002,"end":134.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.60471875000002,"end":136.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.57909375,"end":138.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.90784375,"end":140.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.12284375000002,"end":145.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.43846875,"end":147.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.40846875,"end":151.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.26034375,"end":153.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.71159375000002,"end":155.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.46221875,"end":158.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.94284375,"end":160.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.56284375,"end":164.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.93346875,"end":165.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.30034375000002,"end":167.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.30846875,"end":169.69221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.31659375,"end":171.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.40909375,"end":174.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.44659375,"end":177.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.29846875,"end":181.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.45409375,"end":184.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.03596875000002,"end":184.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.43659375000001,"end":193.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.78971875000002,"end":201.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.80534375000002,"end":204.26909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.60659375,"end":208.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.96034375000002,"end":212.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.35221875000002,"end":214.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.42784375000002,"end":215.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.03096875,"end":217.43159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.70159375,"end":217.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.85346875000002,"end":219.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.55784375000002,"end":228.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.42971875,"end":235.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.04471875000002,"end":239.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.06096875000003,"end":240.92159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.59659375,"end":245.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.90846875000003,"end":244.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.96721875000003,"end":255.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.70096875000002,"end":249.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.13534375,"end":251.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.12159375,"end":261.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.26846875,"end":264.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.84596875,"end":269.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.62159375000005,"end":272.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.05159375,"end":273.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.45221875000004,"end":278.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.62034375,"end":285.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.91034375000004,"end":289.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.97721875,"end":291.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.30596875000003,"end":297.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.45284375,"end":299.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.32159375000003,"end":303.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.05096875000004,"end":306.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.95346875,"end":307.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.18534375,"end":310.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.35784375000003,"end":316.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.01096875,"end":319.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.03159375,"end":321.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.09034375000005,"end":325.24596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.80284375,"end":328.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.17784375,"end":332.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.68784375,"end":334.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.47659375,"end":336.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.94034375,"end":338.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.25221875,"end":340.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.95659375,"end":343.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.79159375,"end":348.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.02284375000005,"end":352.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.85346875000005,"end":354.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.01346875,"end":355.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.99221875,"end":357.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.15221875000003,"end":361.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.49784375,"end":369.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.54284375000003,"end":370.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.48784375,"end":370.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.74096875000004,"end":370.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.79159375,"end":370.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.80846875000003,"end":373.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.21346875,"end":372.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.09471875,"end":375.98909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.19159375000004,"end":380.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.68034375,"end":384.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.69659375000003,"end":385.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.51909375,"end":391.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.37471875,"end":393.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.57284375,"end":395.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.78346875,"end":396.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.28534375000004,"end":400.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.30159375000005,"end":404.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.95909375,"end":411.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.81471875000005,"end":413.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.10971875,"end":416.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.99534375,"end":418.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.18909375000004,"end":422.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.54721875,"end":424.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.19221875000005,"end":427.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.68971875000005,"end":430.79909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.91721875,"end":432.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.00971875000005,"end":434.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.91659375,"end":437.65034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.03846875000005,"end":440.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.87346875000003,"end":440.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.66659375,"end":441.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.68346875000003,"end":444.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.94034375,"end":450.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.77909375,"end":453.54659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.88409375000003,"end":458.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.77784375000005,"end":477.20534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.08284375000005,"end":479.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.87159375000005,"end":483.92159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.05659375000005,"end":484.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.07346875,"end":493.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.84909375,"end":489.86159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.81034375,"end":494.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.60346875000005,"end":494.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.63721875000005,"end":494.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.83971875000003,"end":499.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.33721875000003,"end":497.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.64096875,"end":497.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.48034375000003,"end":504.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.27284375000005,"end":519.7978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.01721875,"end":521.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.97471875,"end":522.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.1728437500001,"end":528.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.64034375,"end":532.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.51721875,"end":534.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.96846875,"end":535.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.74471875,"end":535.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.76159375,"end":537.9890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.4953437500001,"end":544.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.95034375,"end":543.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.48596875,"end":545.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.7178437499999,"end":550.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.24034375,"end":552.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.3328437499999,"end":552.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.61971875,"end":554.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.0834687500001,"end":555.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.3659687500001,"end":556.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.70346875,"end":558.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.0490937500001,"end":572.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.45721875,"end":566.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.9965937500001,"end":571.7390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.9709687500001,"end":577.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.07221875,"end":573.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.13096875,"end":577.6453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.67909375,"end":577.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.69596875,"end":578.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.97846875,"end":579.3328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.3328437499999,"end":579.7547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.7547187499999,"end":582.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.0790937500001,"end":589.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.8928437500001,"end":590.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.3059687500001,"end":589.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.33971875,"end":606.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.2803437499999,"end":595.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.14471875,"end":597.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.67596875,"end":597.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.2665937500001,"end":599.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.73471875,"end":600.8484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.1015937500001,"end":604.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.61971875,"end":620.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.9740937500001,"end":609.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.7709687500001,"end":611.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.28971875,"end":614.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.2934687500001,"end":615.6984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.7397187500001,"end":629.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.85221875,"end":642.6984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.34096875,"end":636.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.7240937500001,"end":642.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.79971875,"end":645.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.3603437500001,"end":649.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.6809687500001,"end":647.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.97159375,"end":654.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.88659375,"end":654.4265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.46034375,"end":654.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.74721875,"end":656.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.02971875,"end":656.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.3672187500001,"end":665.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.3840937500001,"end":658.0209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.95284375,"end":663.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.98596875,"end":670.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.15471875,"end":666.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.57659375,"end":669.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.1203437500001,"end":670.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.1328437500001,"end":672.04409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.91,"text":"請張琦開委員請經濟部部部長"},{"start":35.727,"end":51.884,"text":"回答回台灣社長是全民的期待嘛我知道你也很努力啦也很努力 像這個事情媒體報導說他要一百億度這個綠電我經過兩次的質詢我們的重點是在這邊的我看有某些立委或者某些媒體好像故意在扭曲化作重點了"},{"start":52.785,"end":69.122,"text":"只有兩個重點嘛前名希望他回來包括民進黨立委在這邊都拜託你啊要促成去他們的縣市設廠啊對不對是對那我們就盡量去幫他這是政府的責任而且是全民的期待第二個裡面牽扯到力電夠不夠嘛所以只有兩件事情"},{"start":70.54,"end":84.151,"text":"我那天就說你去聯絡他,他到底需要多少綠電,進度到哪裡嘛,對不對?我們把它做清楚,把它問清楚,做得好,目前都做了嘛,對不對?是,謝謝委員指導這個是雙贏,很好,那現在就繼續要幫忙他,他現在是要回來設廠,對不對?他綠電該買的也買了"},{"start":86.913,"end":110.778,"text":"至於剛剛講到什麼銀豹去炒股票我看你用很嚴厲的言辭譴責嘛我相信有人在炒股票全民都是譴責的好不好可是請不要有人話錯重點最重要的如果有媒體報導那本來我們就爭取他要回來的他到底有什麼困難有需要綠電本來就要把他查清楚我覺得經濟部到目前做得很好我們繼續努力接下來我要談一個最近非常熱門的"},{"start":112.858,"end":138.249,"text":"台研力電的掏空案也是一個很嚴重的一個弊案我要提醒部長的雖然現在國營事業都在換你看剛剛大家問你中友董事長的問題台研力能掏空案這個問題國營事業不要變成掏空連連特別是不要像台研力能變成詐騙集團這個非常要不得部長我先問你一個台研力能啊"},{"start":139.94,"end":157.89,"text":"他光是由他兒子去成立這個土地開發然後找了一堆綠油油他自己的廠商去成立了開發公司鴻輝國際跟兆陽開發勾結之後光是這兩家集中的土地開發說起了八億的暴利"},{"start":158.991,"end":182.827,"text":"另外,用這個指定廠商的方式,左手換右手,把我們國營事業的錢掏到利優惹的手上去,又是3億台元喔,國營事業喔,損失就11億人民的納稅錢損失11億,我要問你一條這件事情第一個,你們沒做行政處分第二個更重要的,怎麼避免國營事業的錢被掏空你有這上面注意,這是檢討的"},{"start":186.132,"end":213.941,"text":"這個回答這個委員的這個問題這個我們有沒有做行政處分我們是我們做調查的也送減掉了這個所以這個這個比行政處分更嚴厲所以跟委員報告這第一題第二題我們如果防止這個光電這個這樣的弊病再度產生的話這個行政院院長有交代我們經濟部、法務部、農業部"},{"start":216.072,"end":234.068,"text":"要成立一個平台公開、公正的來跟所有的廠商或者是所有的地主來做一些公開的協商所以任何的人都可以檢舉如果有再發生這個問題"},{"start":236.845,"end":263.562,"text":"行政院院長的指示就是絕不放寬、寬容這件事情不允許這個事情再度發生所以不允許再發生,第一個一定要防備嘛因為發生了就要檢討,包括剪掉產品那現在很重要的我這段時間接到很多的陳情我們的農漁民受到很大的傷害還有跟我們國營事業、台研的下包廠商、合作廠商喔"},{"start":266.902,"end":290.533,"text":"有些人都幾乎是破產了,那個是幾千萬的錢進去了我跟部長講一下他們陳情的內容第一個,臺原力能去跟我們農漁民還有這一些土地、這個地主一共簽了很多千年,都已經是7年前,很多是7年前或者最近7年以來簽的這個約結果因為臺原力能後來都沒有去開發,很多都沒有開發,或者開發到一半現在出現了兩個很大的問題"},{"start":292.352,"end":318.884,"text":"那些地主該拿到的錢也沒有拿到。第二個最可憐的,其實這兩件事最可憐的,就是臺南跟嘉義這些暗場,本來它是農漁民在那邊有養殖業嘛,現在也沒辦法,沒辦法,連生計都出問題了。所以這兩個,現在第一個,就是這個工程現在看起來好像變成爛尾樓,變成爛尾樓,所以有兩個部分現在要趕快去幫忙了,我請部長、經濟部要趕快去處理,就是這個工程一直延宕在那邊,"},{"start":320.063,"end":339.725,"text":"然後講他剩下的就是詐騙集團他自己跟人家開發完之後開發的一半就留在那邊了那龍一鳴自己本來以這個為生對不對大家看一下這上個圖來我們跳回去上個圖給部長看一下這就是我家的基地你看這本來是市區的地方喔結果現在你看蓋了一半就丟在那裡了電也沒有發電"},{"start":341.004,"end":354.083,"text":"第二、農業生技受影響地主也來埋怨你當初跟我這個租區的時候國營事業你要來租我的土地我們高興啊結果要兩工程才可以開發嘛沒有開發完他也在那邊了那那個工程的做了一半"},{"start":355.043,"end":357.344,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":384.744,"end":398.176,"text":"中鋼也是你管的?是對不對中鋼最近有一個很重要的案子這個是媒體最近在討論的你看起來現在啊離岸風電這個開發離岸風電開發現在不只台積電不願意買電喔因為太貴嘛對不對然後現在一度電是6塊錢所以現在政府想到一個辦法"},{"start":406.001,"end":431.611,"text":"我們自己要成立一個買電這個平臺現在政府找了中鋼、中華電信就是我們的國營事業這些換工股要去成立一個售電公司你要負責變成買電喔你明明外面一度賣6電就想整個地方買買政府你現在去那只有兩種結果嘛你買過來之後你自己用買6塊就是太貴了這是一個問題對不對第二種你要去賣電嘛"},{"start":433.252,"end":458.103,"text":"這個跟現在台電的狀況不是一樣你去外面買電買太貴回來以後你又有便利賣出去虧損就越來越大你怎麼解決這兩個問題報告委員這個部分我們是考慮到當初他們在綠電買賣一千要二十年二十年而且再買到一定的價格那對一些這個小的用綠電店戶也比較不公平"},{"start":458.863,"end":459.363,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":480.209,"end":489.873,"text":"我們就是比較低的價格來轉售這樣所以我們先下第一個我們結論第一個不能買太貴的你說一度六塊要去買然後講五塊都已經過高了台積電三塊多台積電就不買啊我們用台積電的標準你如果到時候買不能夠買比台積電去買的貴好不好這是第一個第一點台積電因為他是買"},{"start":505.858,"end":507.099,"text":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":523.223,"end":542.856,"text":"所以你畫一條線,你很清楚跟民眾講,你要去買電,你稅貴要再多少,不能夠比這個高我們當然是會讓這個,因為其實報告委員,他如果選舉他就不會買啊就不會買,現在就是因為人沒要買啊,現在政府要買,好第一個,所以我們下一個定論啦,不能買太貴,部長對不對"},{"start":544.557,"end":564.734,"text":"不能買太貴第一個你現在去考慮一下這會不會因為這樣子中鋼的錢中鋼要花比較多的錢這就是一種掏空喔賺到的錢是那些廠商對不對所以我們下兩個結論第一個不能買太貴第二個你現在回去檢討據我的了解是中鋼到目前他們都在抗拒嘛他們不願意嗎?中鋼要買嗎?"},{"start":566.156,"end":566.596,"text":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":583.258,"end":584.92,"text":"董事會通過同意的"},{"start":606.561,"end":612.344,"text":"臺電的基層員工在反映一個很重要的事情臺電的員工我們是肯定他們很辛苦很努力的可是他們講了兩個事情有沒有超時工作的問題第二個更重要的你知道嗎"},{"start":631.425,"end":642.351,"text":"當縣市長已經宣布說颱風了可是當地的處長喔臺電當地的處長如果沒有宣布他是加班的話他去搶休是沒有颱風天的這個假期你知道他們去爬颱風天去搶休的時候爬電線桿一個小時加多少錢"},{"start":650.374,"end":671.899,"text":"謝謝 明天還有議程 明天還可以問才105塊 這個真的太少了 又危險 錢又少所以第一個就是以後不要等處長宣布以後 以後早就採訪新市長宣布這是一個第二個 他們危險加急好不好 不要只有105塊要去幫他們好不好好 部長謝謝好 部長請回座"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":647,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（10時39分）請郭智輝部長。"],["主席：請經濟部郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，輝達回臺灣設廠是全民的期待，我知道你也很努力，像這個事情，媒體報導說他要100億度綠電，經過我兩次的質詢，我們的重點是在這邊，我看有某些立委或者某些媒體好像故意扭曲、劃錯重點了，只有兩個重點嘛，全民希望他回來，包括民進黨立委在這邊都拜託你促成去他們的縣市設廠，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員啓楷：對，那就儘量幫忙他們，這是政府的責任，而且是全民的期待；第二個，牽扯到綠電夠不夠嘛，所以只有兩件事情。我那天就說，你去聯絡他，他到底需要多少綠電，進度到哪裡，我們把他問清楚，做得好，目前都做了嘛，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員的指導。"],["張委員啓楷：對，這個是雙贏，很好。那現在就要繼續幫忙他，他現在要回來設廠，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員啓楷：綠電該買的也買了，至於剛剛講到雲豹去炒股票，我看你用很嚴厲的言詞譴責。"],["郭部長智輝：當然。"],["張委員啓楷：有人在炒股票，我相信全民都是譴責的，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好。"],["張委員啓楷：可是請不要劃錯重點。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["張委員啓楷：最重要的，如果有媒體報導，本來我們就爭取讓他回來，看他到底有什麼困難，需要綠電就把它查清楚，我覺得經濟部到目前做得很好。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["張委員啓楷：好，繼續努力。接下來我要談一個最近非常熱門的臺鹽綠電掏空案，也是一個很嚴重的弊案。我要提醒部長，雖然國營事業都在換，你看剛剛大家都在問你中油董事長的問題。關於臺鹽綠能掏空案，國營事業不要變成掏空連連，特別是不要像臺鹽綠能變成詐騙集團，這個非常要不得。","部長，我先問你一下，臺鹽綠能光是由他兒子去成立土地開發，然後找了一堆綠友友，他自己的廠商去成立了開發公司，鴻暉國際跟晁陽開發勾結之後，光是這兩家居中以土地開發收取了8億的暴利！另外還用指定廠商的方式，左手換右手，把國營事業逾3億的錢掏到綠友友的手上，臺鹽國營事業損失就11億，人民的納稅錢損失了11億。我要問你兩件事情，第一個，你們有沒有做行政處分？第二個更重要的，怎麼避免國營事業的錢被掏空？你有做什麼檢討？"],["郭部長智輝：我來回答委員這個問題，關於我們有沒有做行政處分，我們做了調查，也送檢調了，這個比行政處分更嚴厲，跟委員報告，這是第一題。第二題，我們如何防止光電這樣的弊病再度產生？行政院院長有交代經濟部、法務部、農業部要成立一個平臺，公開公正的跟所有廠商或者是所有地主公開協商，所以任何人都可以檢舉，如果再發生這個問題，依行政院院長指示絕不寬容，不允許這個事情再度發生。"],["張委員啓楷：不允許再度發生，第一個一定要防弊。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員啓楷：已經發生了就要檢討，包括送檢調查明。"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員。"],["張委員啓楷：現在還有一個很重要的，我這段時間接到很多陳情，農漁民受到很大的傷害，還有國營產業──臺鹽的下包廠商、合作廠商苦不堪言，有些人幾乎是破產了，那個是幾千萬的錢進去了。我跟部長講一下他們陳情的內容，第一個，臺鹽綠能跟農漁民還有一些土地的地主簽了很多契約，很多都已經是7年前簽的，或者是最近7年以來簽的。結果後來臺鹽綠能很多都沒有去開發，或者開發到一半，現在出現兩個很大的問題：那些地主該拿到的錢也沒有拿到；第二個，其實這件事情最可憐的就是臺南跟嘉義這些案場，本來他是農漁民，在那邊可能有養殖漁業，現在也沒辦法做，連生計都出問題了。所以現在這個工程看起來好像變成爛尾樓，現在這兩個部分需要趕快去幫忙的，我請部長、經濟部要趕快去處理。工程一直延宕，老實講，他們算是詐騙集團，他們跟人家開發了之後，開發一半就留在那邊，農漁民本來以這個為生，大家看一下，我跳回到上一個圖給部長看一下，這是我們嘉義義竹，那本來是養魚的地方，結果現在蓋了一半就丟在那裡，電也沒有發電，農漁民的生計就受了影響，地主也埋怨：當初國營事業要來租我的土地，我很高興啊！結果要兩公頃才可以開發，沒有開發完，它也在那邊了，工程做了一半都卡在那邊。有些人三、四千萬就丟在那裡，變成爛尾樓了，請經濟部趕快去幫他們好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員，這個部分我們會趕快了解一下，看如何協助他們不遭受到更大的傷害。"],["張委員啓楷：不要讓那些工程變成爛尾樓，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員。"],["張委員啓楷：要去照顧他們。我再提下一個，現在的掏空不是只有臺鹽綠能被掏空喔，最近有一個很重要的事情，會不會變成拿國營事業的錢去補助賴友友？我們來看一下，中鋼也是你在管的，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員啓楷：中鋼最近有一個很重要的案子，這個是媒體最近在討論的，對於離岸風電的開發，現在不只台積電不願意買電，因為太貴嘛，對不對？現在1度電6塊錢，所以政府想到一個辦法，政府自己成立一個買電的平臺。部長，你看一下，現在政府找了中鋼、中華電信，也就是國營事業這些泛官股要成立一個售電公司，你變成要負責買電喔，明明外面1度電賣6塊錢就太貴了，沒人要買了，政府現在去就只有兩種結果，你買過來之後你自己用，但買6塊太貴了，這是一個問題，對不對？第二種，你要去賣電嘛！這個跟台電現在的狀況不是一樣嗎？你去外面買電買太貴，回來以後你又便宜賣出去，虧損就越來越大，你怎麼解決這兩個問題？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，這個部分我們是考慮到當初他們在綠電買賣時，一簽就要20年，而且買到的是一定的價格，這對一些小的綠電用戶就比較不公平，它沒辦法一次就決定要買20年，所以我們成立這樣一個公司的目的，是在服務那個小的綠電用戶，讓它不會被人家綁住20年。","再來，我們成立的這個公司，是你欠多少、要多少，我就賣你多少；第二個，價格不可能高，我們就是用比較低的價格來轉售。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，它現在賣不出去，就是因為一度賣6塊，你說你要去買比較便宜的，你有把握買到的一定是便宜的？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員啓楷：好，所以我們先下第一個結論，就是不能買太貴的，你說1度用6塊去買，老實講5塊都已經過高了，就算是3塊多，像台積電就不買啊！我們就用台積電的標準，到時候你去買的不能夠比台積電買的貴，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：台積電因為是買20年，所以是買了一個價格，那個是過去；現在我們能夠買的是114年以後的電，114年以後的電比110年的電大概貴了至少差不多五成。"],["張委員啓楷：所以你劃出一條線，很清楚的跟民眾講，你要去買電，最貴要在多少以下，不能夠比這個高。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，如果太貴了它就不會買了。"],["張委員啓楷：現在就是人家不想買，你說政府要去買，所以我們下一個定論，不能買太貴！然後你現在去考慮一下，會不會因為這樣子，中鋼要花比較多的錢？這就是一種掏空！賺到錢的是那些廠商，對不對？所以我們下兩個結論，第一個，不能買太貴；第二個，你現在回去檢討，就我的了解，中鋼到目前他們都在抗拒，他們願意嗎？中鋼要買嗎？第一個，不要買太貴；第二個，不要變成中鋼買到太貴，把我們人民的錢搬出去，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：絕對沒有這個現象，我可以在這個地方跟委員報告，它不可能買太貴……"],["主席：好，謝謝……"],["張委員啓楷：第二個，而且中鋼是上市公司，要注意一個點，你要經過董事會同意，對於那些所有去買他們股票的人……"],["郭部長智輝：他們董事會通過同意的。"],["張委員啓楷：抱歉，我再問另外一個問題……"],["主席：謝謝……"],["張委員啓楷：因為這個是牽扯到台電，我問一個重要的事情……"],["主席：張委員……"],["張委員啓楷：抱歉！抱歉！馬上好！馬上好！因為是一個低薪的問題，我只有談一個事情……"],["主席：一視同仁……"],["張委員啓楷：主席，我問一個問題，馬上好！因為颱風天……"],["主席：我要公正……"],["張委員啓楷：我知道，馬上好！我們在颱風、救災的時候……"],["主席：我要對其他同仁公正，一視同仁。"],["張委員啓楷：好啦！很多人都有超過一點點啊！我講很快！"],["主席：你超過最多！30秒！"],["張委員啓楷：我馬上問。台電基層員工在反映一個很重要的事情，前幾天颱風天，台電的員工，我們肯定他們是很辛苦、很努力的，可是他們講了兩個事情：第一個，有沒有超時工作的問題？第二個，更重要的，你知道嗎？當縣市長已經宣布放颱風假了，可是台電當地的處長如果沒有宣布他是可以加班的話，若他去搶修是沒有颱風天的加給……"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，我問最簡單的，你知道他們颱風天去搶修的時候，爬電線桿一個小時會加多少錢？"],["主席：謝謝，明天還有議程，明天還可以問。"],["張委員啓楷：才105塊，部長，我跟你說，這個真的太少了，又危險，錢又少，所以第一個，以後不要等處長宣布，以後縣市長宣布就算數；第二個，他們的危險加給不要只有105塊……"],["主席：張委員，發言時間到。"],["張委員啓楷：好不好？謝謝部長。"],["主席：部長請回座，其他官員請回座。下一位質詢請鄭正鈐委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-10","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","林岱樺","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","葉元之","許宇甄","賴士葆","陳冠廷","牛煦庭","羅智強","王鴻薇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-06"],"gazette_id":"1139401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院主計總處首長、勞動部首長、教育部首\n長、財政部首長就「我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策，暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工薪\n資水準」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員就「我國傳統產\n業及中小企業發展困境探討、因應對策及相關振興方案」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}