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好，所以我覺得有些觀念真的要改變。","其實青年低薪就是我們政策的錯誤，我們政策的錯誤在哪裡？那是選舉所導致的結果。我們早前為了名聲，都說萬般皆下品，唯有讀書高，結果大學就拚命設立起來，大家都是大學生畢業。以前大學生少，後面讀大學的孩子多，他就覺得我兒子是大學畢業，要有這樣的待遇，所以把技職教育廢掉是一種非常不良的教育制度。","以前從職業學校、工專出來的人才很多，現在變成大學生太多，大學生出來不肯受苦，包括我們那個時代就是要打帶拚，再來為了選票就製造小確幸，巴結年輕人才有選票。但臺灣是個沒有資源的國家，需要打拚和奮鬥才行，臺灣的企業家是遊牧民族，哪裡有錢賺就往哪裡跑，這幾年來，我們辛辛苦苦建立的產業，今天的小確幸帶來很多政策上的錯誤。","第三點，你是從企業界來的，我們部長也知道，臺灣人非常會砍價錢，一比市場臺灣太小，一來這邊比價的時候，價格就一直被殺來殺去，本來有優秀的東西，非常優質的東西，卻一直被殺價，所以這裡面摻雜了非常多的因素。我今天在這裡，你們現在是執政者，你是政治家，你們應該從頭澈底跟所有的臺灣人講，包括總統，不要為了選票。其實這個世界是很無情的，我相信你是從企業來的，贏者王，敗者寇，我們一定要改變這樣的觀念，你才有辦法把這個低薪的制度弄好。","現在有很多人在找工作，什麼是有希望的產業，什麼是未來的產業，什麼是傳統產業裡面……要怎樣來做？現在水電工很缺，要水電的來做工一開價都要十幾萬。現在就連電焊工，如果是技術好的就要二、三十萬，但現在也找不到，因為我們讓以前技職教育訓練的一批人才全部不見了，大家要做輕鬆的工作，所以我們自己的環境，你們當執政者的一定要再強調，臺灣教育未來所要面臨的環境、發展跟我們的挑戰，不然你說的這些，我聽起來……你說基本薪資有提高，但物價已經上漲了，大家沒感覺，現在大家都面臨到房價高；第二個，怕小孩子受苦，但受苦是成長必要的條件；第三個，其實選擇行業很重要，譬如經濟部，你們國發會發覺哪幾個產業臺灣有缺，要臺灣幫忙訓練，可以，這個基本的要熟，我們可以請外來的移工來做，他去當領班，薪水就提高起來了。","你們沒有討論，今天有幾十億，大家都在講那些有的沒有的，我真的很難過，不曉得主委有什麼想法？部長在笑，你從企業界來的，你知道，你們以前是怎麼打拚的？我是在討論，這個結構沒有根本改造是沒有辦法改變的，你要未雨綢繆，你們要有眼光，未來幾個企業裡面我們的什麼可能是最缺的？你就從這樣子下去嘛！訓練這些人，雖然用的是外來的移工，但臺灣人可以作為外來移工的領頭者，帶著去做，整個世界都能走遍，這是我的看法。好像只有我一個人在講，你們也說說你們的感想嘛！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：其實我的看法跟你一樣，我們整理了一個八大策略，其中一個跟你講的很像，現在的狀況是，你剛剛講到焊接工要二、三十萬，的確我們也看到外面現在資深技術勞工可以到18萬、19萬一個月還請不到人。但問題是就有一些人在他的能力上並不匹配，就像你說的，學歷讀得太高，父母不願意小孩子去碰觸……"],["陳委員超明：這個你一定要跟他們講啊！不能只有表面好，我相信你們都是拿皮包出來的，當初是怎麼打拚的？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個我有看到。"],["陳委員超明：哪裡有生意就去哪裡拚嘛！我們的條件不一樣，我們要講出自己所面臨的環境，我們要接受挑戰。你們說AI，黃仁勳不是說現在不是用走的而是用跑的嗎？時代不一樣了，你們應該要好好地真正地提出幾個……現在有幾個行業還缺人，缺工不用怕，把他變成一個領工，他要先懂、要先做，再來帶一批人啦！我的看法是這樣，不然你再怎麼說，提高些什麼，現在房子大家都買不起了。我真的講，難怪他們心灰意冷，你要創造希望、給他們創造未來啊！你是諮詢顧問，大家要向你請教，我真的講，要澈底改造，真的愛臺灣是這樣愛的，不是用政治口號愛的。你們企業家來，我相信你們要講實話，真正地跟總統報告，要做大事的人要這樣做的。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們的看法是一樣的，我找個時間帶著我說的那八項，我們好好地討論一下。"],["陳委員超明：好，改天再來研究，我先來聽聽部長怎麼說。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們一起把它再延伸一些。"],["陳委員超明：你們兩個現在是最熱門人物，提出的idea、點子最多，希望能很踏實，企業界的人不踏實是做不出成績的，像我們董事長同業，以前是從小公司這樣做出來的，也很不簡單，這是一步一腳印，這是經過煎熬跟折磨出來的耶！部長，你談談你的看法。","我真的講啦！這些都不要講啦！不管怎麼去提升，如果不賺錢，人家就不會去做，有賺錢的話臺灣的老闆都願意給員工，現在的觀念都不一樣了。"],["郭部長智輝：我的作法和委員所指導的完全一樣。"],["陳委員超明：是因為立委講的，所以就完全一樣？"],["郭部長智輝：我們會去做。"],["陳委員超明：是真的一樣，還是假的一樣，我現在很怕你們說官話耶！"],["郭部長智輝：不會，我和劉主委還為官不久啦！"],["陳委員超明：主席再坐一下，馬上好。"],["郭部長智輝：一定會按照這樣子……"],["陳委員超明：我真的講，這個要改變，不要講那些五四三、不切實際的，只是在騙騙這些孩子，天下沒有不勞而獲的事情，天下沒有白吃的午餐，一定要這樣教他們。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["陳委員超明：好不好？謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["主席：謝謝陳超明委員語重心長地質詢，憂國憂民的精神令人感佩，請部長跟主委先回座，著實令人感動跟感佩。","現在休息3分鐘。","休息（11時19分）","繼續開會（11時23分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","下一位質詢請鄭天財委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-10","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","林岱樺","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","葉元之","許宇甄","賴士葆","陳冠廷","牛煦庭","羅智強","王鴻薇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-06"],"gazette_id":"1139401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院主計總處首長、勞動部首長、教育部首\n長、財政部首長就「我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策，暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工薪\n資水準」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員就「我國傳統產\n業及中小企業發展困境探討、因應對策及相關振興方案」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}