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家發展委員"},{"start":520.47,"end":522.752,"text":"我國青年低薪成因檢討及基層員工薪資水準"},{"start":532.551,"end":533.051,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":562.199,"end":562.22,"text":"好,謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:10:02.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:10:05.154000+08:00","text":"主席，首先有請國發會劉主委。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T11:10:05.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:10:05.955000+08:00","text":"請國發會劉主委。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:10:16.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:10:16.778000+08:00","text":"劉主委好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:10:17.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:10:39.837000+08:00","text":"今天主要是討論青年低薪的問題，這個問題很令人頭痛，也是個很複雜的問題，尤其你在以前經營的顧問公司裡面都當最大的，都是人家請教你，你從民間到政府機關，你有沒有發覺這個問題很嚴重？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T11:10:46.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:10:46.953000+08:00","text":"我有感受到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:10:47.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:03.554000+08:00","text":"你以前是高高在上，都是上市公司來請教你，大概都沒有跟你談到基層員工管理等各方面的問題，今天面對青年低薪，為什麼會造成這樣的一個環境？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:03.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:05.695000+08:00","text":"你有沒有仔細研究一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:06.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:06.535000+08:00","text":"這個有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:07.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:10.576000+08:00","text":"那你跟我講原因在哪裡。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:10.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:19.819000+08:00","text":"其實我們有去研究，它有幾個部分，一個是企業有能力卻不願意加薪……","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:19.819000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:21.380000+08:00","text":"我覺得你這個是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:21.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:25.401000+08:00","text":"另外一種是沒有能力，它有意願也沒用……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:25.401000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:29.842000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，你只講了一半……","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:29.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:34.384000+08:00","text":"這裡面再分出來，也跟他所待的產業跟公司賺不賺錢有關，公司不賺錢也是沒辦法。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:34.384000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:35.384000+08:00","text":"那些當然有關係嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:35.384000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:36.384000+08:00","text":"有賺錢我就多分一點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:34.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:35.024000+08:00","text":"區域也是一個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:35.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:37.025000+08:00","text":"現在我碰到很多傳統產業那些老一輩的怎麼講？","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:37.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:11:37.905000+08:00","text":"我說你不賺錢怎麼辦？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:11:38.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:12:07.396000+08:00","text":"他說打平就好，那些老員工跟幾十年了，只要讓他安穩到退休，就要把工廠關掉，所以大家的思想……你們常常在講企業家，但臺灣人最有感情了，企業家只要有賺錢，對員工就會愈來愈好，所以我覺得有些觀念真的要改變。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:12:07.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:12:14.839000+08:00","text":"其實青年低薪就是我們政策的錯誤，我們政策的錯誤在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:12:14.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:12:15.700000+08:00","text":"那是選舉所導致的結果。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:12:17.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:12:27.572000+08:00","text":"我們早前為了名聲，都說萬般皆下品，唯有讀書高，結果大學就拚命設立起來，大家都是大學生畢業。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:12:27.572000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:12:49.288333+08:00","text":"以前大學生少，後面讀大學的孩子多，他就覺得我兒子是大學畢業，要有這樣的待遇，所以把技職教育廢掉是一種非常不良的教育制度。","quality":0.036},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:12:49.288333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:13:11.004667+08:00","text":"以前從職業學校、工專出來的人才很多，現在變成大學生太多，大學生出來不肯受苦，包括我們那個時代就是要打帶拚，再來為了選票就製造小確幸，巴結年輕人才有選票。","quality":0.029},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:13:11.004667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:13:32.721000+08:00","text":"但臺灣是個沒有資源的國家，需要打拚和奮鬥才行，臺灣的企業家是遊牧民族，哪裡有錢賺就往哪裡跑，這幾年來，我們辛辛苦苦建立的產業，今天的小確幸帶來很多政策上的錯誤。","quality":0.247},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:13:32.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:13:54.088000+08:00","text":"第三點，你是從企業界來的，我們部長也知道，臺灣人非常會砍價錢，一比市場臺灣太小，一來這邊比價的時候，價格就一直被殺來殺去，本來有優秀的東西，非常優質的東西，卻一直被殺價，所以這裡面摻雜了非常多的因素。","quality":0.753},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:13:55.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:14:07.638000+08:00","text":"我今天在這裡，你們現在是執政者，你是政治家，你們應該從頭澈底跟所有的臺灣人講，包括總統，不要為了選票。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:14:08.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:14:21.208000+08:00","text":"其實這個世界是很無情的，我相信你是從企業來的，贏者王，敗者寇，我們一定要改變這樣的觀念，你才有辦法把這個低薪的制度弄好。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:14:23.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:14:31.992000+08:00","text":"現在有很多人在找工作，什麼是有希望的產業，什麼是未來的產業，什麼是傳統產業裡面……要怎樣來做？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:14:31.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:14:38.816000+08:00","text":"現在水電工很缺，要水電的來做工一開價都要十幾萬。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:14:38.816000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:15:39.840000+08:00","text":"現在就連電焊工，如果是技術好的就要二、三十萬，但現在也找不到，因為我們讓以前技職教育訓練的一批人才全部不見了，大家要做輕鬆的工作，所以我們自己的環境，你們當執政者的一定要再強調，臺灣教育未來所要面臨的環境、發展跟我們的挑戰，不然你說的這些，我聽起來……你說基本薪資有提高，但物價已經上漲了，大家沒感覺，現在大家都面臨到房價高；第二個，怕小孩子受苦，但受苦是成長必要的條件；第三個，其實選擇行業很重要，譬如經濟部，你們國發會發覺哪幾個產業臺灣有缺，要臺灣幫忙訓練，可以，這個基本的要熟，我們可以請外來的移工來做，他去當領班，薪水就提高起來了。","quality":0.275},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:15:39.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:15:48.844000+08:00","text":"你們沒有討論，今天有幾十億，大家都在講那些有的沒有的，我真的很難過，不曉得主委有什麼想法？","quality":0.675},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:15:49.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:15:53.325000+08:00","text":"部長在笑，你從企業界來的，你知道，你們以前是怎麼打拚的？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:15:53.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:16:04.589000+08:00","text":"我是在討論，這個結構沒有根本改造是沒有辦法改變的，你要未雨綢繆，你們要有眼光，未來幾個企業裡面我們的什麼可能是最缺的？","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:16:05.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:16:07.069000+08:00","text":"你就從這樣子下去嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:16:08.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:16:18.535000+08:00","text":"訓練這些人，雖然用的是外來的移工，但臺灣人可以作為外來移工的領頭者，帶著去做，整個世界都能走遍，這是我的看法。","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:16:19.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:16:20.496000+08:00","text":"好像只有我一個人在講，你們也說說你們的感想嘛！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T11:16:22.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:16:38.909000+08:00","text":"其實我的看法跟你一樣，我們整理了一個八大策略，其中一個跟你講的很像，現在的狀況是，你剛剛講到焊接工要二、三十萬，的確我們也看到外面現在資深技術勞工可以到18萬、19萬一個月還請不到人。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T11:16:39.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:16:48.394000+08:00","text":"但問題是就有一些人在他的能力上並不匹配，就像你說的，學歷讀得太高，父母不願意小孩子去碰觸……","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:16:48.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:16:50.395000+08:00","text":"這個你一定要跟他們講啊！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:16:51.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:16:54.918000+08:00","text":"不能只有表面好，我相信你們都是拿皮包出來的，當初是怎麼打拚的？","quality":0.536},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T11:16:54.918000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:17:00.670800+08:00","text":"這個我有看到。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:17:00.670800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:17:06.423600+08:00","text":"哪裡有生意就去哪裡拚嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:17:06.423600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:17:12.176400+08:00","text":"我們的條件不一樣，我們要講出自己所面臨的環境，我們要接受挑戰。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:17:12.176400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:17:17.929200+08:00","text":"你們說AI，黃仁勳不是說現在不是用走的而是用跑的嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:17:17.929200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:17:23.682000+08:00","text":"時代不一樣了，你們應該要好好地真正地提出幾個……現在有幾個行業還缺人，缺工不用怕，把他變成一個領工，他要先懂、要先做，再來帶一批人啦！","quality":0.017},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:17:23.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:17:28.465000+08:00","text":"我的看法是這樣，不然你再怎麼說，提高些什麼，現在房子大家都買不起了。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:17:30.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:17:35.408000+08:00","text":"我真的講，難怪他們心灰意冷，你要創造希望、給他們創造未來啊！","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:17:37.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:17:47.175000+08:00","text":"你是諮詢顧問，大家要向你請教，我真的講，要澈底改造，真的愛臺灣是這樣愛的，不是用政治口號愛的。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:17:48.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:17:55.467000+08:00","text":"你們企業家來，我相信你們要講實話，真正地跟總統報告，要做大事的人要這樣做的。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T11:17:56.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:01.133000+08:00","text":"我們的看法是一樣的，我找個時間帶著我說的那八項，我們好好地討論一下。","quality":0.645},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:01.133000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:02.133000+08:00","text":"好，改天再來研究，我先來聽聽部長怎麼說。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:01.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:04.237000+08:00","text":"我們一起把它再延伸一些。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:04.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:12.285000+08:00","text":"你們兩個現在是最熱門人物，提出的idea、點子最多，希望能很踏實，企業界的人不踏實是做不出成績的，像我們董事長同業，以前是從小公司這樣做出來的，也很不簡單，這是一步一腳印，這是經過煎熬跟折磨出來的耶！","quality":0.344},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:12.285000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:17.361167+08:00","text":"部長，你談談你的看法。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:17.361167+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:22.437333+08:00","text":"我真的講啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:22.437333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:27.513500+08:00","text":"這些都不要講啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:27.513500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:32.589667+08:00","text":"不管怎麼去提升，如果不賺錢，人家就不會去做，有賺錢的話臺灣的老闆都願意給員工，現在的觀念都不一樣了。","quality":0.022},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:32.589667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:37.665833+08:00","text":"我的作法和委員所指導的完全一樣。","quality":0.133},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:37.665833+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:42.742000+08:00","text":"是因為立委講的，所以就完全一樣？","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:42.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:47.818167+08:00","text":"我們會去做。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:47.818167+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:52.894333+08:00","text":"是真的一樣，還是假的一樣，我現在很怕你們說官話耶！","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:52.894333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:18:57.970500+08:00","text":"不會，我和劉主委還為官不久啦！","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:18:57.970500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:19:03.046667+08:00","text":"主席再坐一下，馬上好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-06T11:19:03.046667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:19:08.122833+08:00","text":"一定會按照這樣子……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:19:08.122833+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:19:13.199000+08:00","text":"我真的講，這個要改變，不要講那些五四三、不切實際的，只是在騙騙這些孩子，天下沒有不勞而獲的事情，天下沒有白吃的午餐，一定要這樣教他們。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員超明","start":"2024-11-06T11:19:13.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-06T11:19:13.220000+08:00","text":"好不好？謝謝。是。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T11:19:13.720000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:19:26.005714+08:00","text":"謝謝陳超明委員語重心長地質詢，憂國憂民的精神令人感佩，請部長跟主委先回座，著實令人感動跟感佩。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T11:19:26.305714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:19:28.020000+08:00","text":"現在休息3分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T11:19:28.320000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:19:29.462857+08:00","text":"休息（11時19分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T11:19:29.762857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:19:31.477143+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時23分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T11:19:31.777143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:19:33.491429+08:00","text":"我們繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-06T11:19:33.791429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-06T11:19:36.934286+08:00","text":"下一位質詢請鄭天財委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":838,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時10分）主席，首先有請國發會劉主委。"],["主席：請國發會劉主委。"],["陳委員超明：劉主委好。今天主要是討論青年低薪的問題，這個問題很令人頭痛，也是個很複雜的問題，尤其你在以前經營的顧問公司裡面都當最大的，都是人家請教你，你從民間到政府機關，你有沒有發覺這個問題很嚴重？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我有感受到。"],["陳委員超明：你以前是高高在上，都是上市公司來請教你，大概都沒有跟你談到基層員工管理等各方面的問題，今天面對青年低薪，為什麼會造成這樣的一個環境？你有沒有仔細研究一下？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個有。"],["陳委員超明：那你跟我講原因在哪裡。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：其實我們有去研究，它有幾個部分，一個是企業有能力卻不願意加薪……"],["陳委員超明：我覺得你這個是……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：另外一種是沒有能力，它有意願也沒用……"],["陳委員超明：我跟你講，你只講了一半……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這裡面再分出來，也跟他所待的產業跟公司賺不賺錢有關，公司不賺錢也是沒辦法。"],["陳委員超明：那些當然有關係嘛！有賺錢我就多分一點。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：區域也是一個問題。"],["陳委員超明：現在我碰到很多傳統產業那些老一輩的怎麼講？我說你不賺錢怎麼辦？他說打平就好，那些老員工跟幾十年了，只要讓他安穩到退休，就要把工廠關掉，所以大家的思想……你們常常在講企業家，但臺灣人最有感情了，企業家只要有賺錢，對員工就會愈來愈好，所以我覺得有些觀念真的要改變。","其實青年低薪就是我們政策的錯誤，我們政策的錯誤在哪裡？那是選舉所導致的結果。我們早前為了名聲，都說萬般皆下品，唯有讀書高，結果大學就拚命設立起來，大家都是大學生畢業。以前大學生少，後面讀大學的孩子多，他就覺得我兒子是大學畢業，要有這樣的待遇，所以把技職教育廢掉是一種非常不良的教育制度。","以前從職業學校、工專出來的人才很多，現在變成大學生太多，大學生出來不肯受苦，包括我們那個時代就是要打帶拚，再來為了選票就製造小確幸，巴結年輕人才有選票。但臺灣是個沒有資源的國家，需要打拚和奮鬥才行，臺灣的企業家是遊牧民族，哪裡有錢賺就往哪裡跑，這幾年來，我們辛辛苦苦建立的產業，今天的小確幸帶來很多政策上的錯誤。","第三點，你是從企業界來的，我們部長也知道，臺灣人非常會砍價錢，一比市場臺灣太小，一來這邊比價的時候，價格就一直被殺來殺去，本來有優秀的東西，非常優質的東西，卻一直被殺價，所以這裡面摻雜了非常多的因素。我今天在這裡，你們現在是執政者，你是政治家，你們應該從頭澈底跟所有的臺灣人講，包括總統，不要為了選票。其實這個世界是很無情的，我相信你是從企業來的，贏者王，敗者寇，我們一定要改變這樣的觀念，你才有辦法把這個低薪的制度弄好。","現在有很多人在找工作，什麼是有希望的產業，什麼是未來的產業，什麼是傳統產業裡面……要怎樣來做？現在水電工很缺，要水電的來做工一開價都要十幾萬。現在就連電焊工，如果是技術好的就要二、三十萬，但現在也找不到，因為我們讓以前技職教育訓練的一批人才全部不見了，大家要做輕鬆的工作，所以我們自己的環境，你們當執政者的一定要再強調，臺灣教育未來所要面臨的環境、發展跟我們的挑戰，不然你說的這些，我聽起來……你說基本薪資有提高，但物價已經上漲了，大家沒感覺，現在大家都面臨到房價高；第二個，怕小孩子受苦，但受苦是成長必要的條件；第三個，其實選擇行業很重要，譬如經濟部，你們國發會發覺哪幾個產業臺灣有缺，要臺灣幫忙訓練，可以，這個基本的要熟，我們可以請外來的移工來做，他去當領班，薪水就提高起來了。","你們沒有討論，今天有幾十億，大家都在講那些有的沒有的，我真的很難過，不曉得主委有什麼想法？部長在笑，你從企業界來的，你知道，你們以前是怎麼打拚的？我是在討論，這個結構沒有根本改造是沒有辦法改變的，你要未雨綢繆，你們要有眼光，未來幾個企業裡面我們的什麼可能是最缺的？你就從這樣子下去嘛！訓練這些人，雖然用的是外來的移工，但臺灣人可以作為外來移工的領頭者，帶著去做，整個世界都能走遍，這是我的看法。好像只有我一個人在講，你們也說說你們的感想嘛！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：其實我的看法跟你一樣，我們整理了一個八大策略，其中一個跟你講的很像，現在的狀況是，你剛剛講到焊接工要二、三十萬，的確我們也看到外面現在資深技術勞工可以到18萬、19萬一個月還請不到人。但問題是就有一些人在他的能力上並不匹配，就像你說的，學歷讀得太高，父母不願意小孩子去碰觸……"],["陳委員超明：這個你一定要跟他們講啊！不能只有表面好，我相信你們都是拿皮包出來的，當初是怎麼打拚的？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個我有看到。"],["陳委員超明：哪裡有生意就去哪裡拚嘛！我們的條件不一樣，我們要講出自己所面臨的環境，我們要接受挑戰。你們說AI，黃仁勳不是說現在不是用走的而是用跑的嗎？時代不一樣了，你們應該要好好地真正地提出幾個……現在有幾個行業還缺人，缺工不用怕，把他變成一個領工，他要先懂、要先做，再來帶一批人啦！我的看法是這樣，不然你再怎麼說，提高些什麼，現在房子大家都買不起了。我真的講，難怪他們心灰意冷，你要創造希望、給他們創造未來啊！你是諮詢顧問，大家要向你請教，我真的講，要澈底改造，真的愛臺灣是這樣愛的，不是用政治口號愛的。你們企業家來，我相信你們要講實話，真正地跟總統報告，要做大事的人要這樣做的。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們的看法是一樣的，我找個時間帶著我說的那八項，我們好好地討論一下。"],["陳委員超明：好，改天再來研究，我先來聽聽部長怎麼說。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們一起把它再延伸一些。"],["陳委員超明：你們兩個現在是最熱門人物，提出的idea、點子最多，希望能很踏實，企業界的人不踏實是做不出成績的，像我們董事長同業，以前是從小公司這樣做出來的，也很不簡單，這是一步一腳印，這是經過煎熬跟折磨出來的耶！部長，你談談你的看法。","我真的講啦！這些都不要講啦！不管怎麼去提升，如果不賺錢，人家就不會去做，有賺錢的話臺灣的老闆都願意給員工，現在的觀念都不一樣了。"],["郭部長智輝：我的作法和委員所指導的完全一樣。"],["陳委員超明：是因為立委講的，所以就完全一樣？"],["郭部長智輝：我們會去做。"],["陳委員超明：是真的一樣，還是假的一樣，我現在很怕你們說官話耶！"],["郭部長智輝：不會，我和劉主委還為官不久啦！"],["陳委員超明：主席再坐一下，馬上好。"],["郭部長智輝：一定會按照這樣子……"],["陳委員超明：我真的講，這個要改變，不要講那些五四三、不切實際的，只是在騙騙這些孩子，天下沒有不勞而獲的事情，天下沒有白吃的午餐，一定要這樣教他們。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["陳委員超明：好不好？謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["主席：謝謝陳超明委員語重心長地質詢，憂國憂民的精神令人感佩，請部長跟主委先回座，著實令人感動跟感佩。","現在休息3分鐘。","休息（11時19分）","繼續開會（11時23分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","下一位質詢請鄭天財委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-10","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","林岱樺","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","葉元之","許宇甄","賴士葆","陳冠廷","牛煦庭","羅智強","王鴻薇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-06"],"gazette_id":"1139401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院主計總處首長、勞動部首長、教育部首\n長、財政部首長就「我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策，暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工薪\n資水準」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員就「我國傳統產\n業及中小企業發展困境探討、因應對策及相關振興方案」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}