{"error":false,"id":["156552"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":156552,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156552","日期":"2024-11-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-19-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-11-06T11:32:49+08:00","結束時間":"2024-11-06T11:41:01+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:12","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b367300d5b4eae7d6a5a163c98980915ec98f8113ce54f742e72fbbb48a4d1ee989ff97b2754fa435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"11:32:49 - 11:41:01","會議時間":"2024-11-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院主計總處首長、勞動部首長、教育部首長、財政部首長就「我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策，暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工薪資水準」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員就「我國傳統產業及中小企業發展困境探討、因應對策及相關振興方案」進行報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.08909375,"end":6.443468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.814718750000001,"end":10.797218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.067218750000002,"end":11.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.070968750000002,"end":17.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.74909375,"end":21.765968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.765968750000003,"end":22.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.26784375,"end":26.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.351593750000003,"end":28.364093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.65096875,"end":29.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.10534375,"end":37.594718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.40471875,"end":38.775968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.299093750000004,"end":40.125968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.22721875,"end":41.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.42534375,"end":42.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.775343750000005,"end":48.985343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.44096875,"end":51.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.97221875,"end":55.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.22471875,"end":59.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.392843750000004,"end":62.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.17721875,"end":67.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.96971875,"end":73.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.23034375,"end":79.42784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.78221875,"end":80.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.03534375000001,"end":85.13159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.56221875,"end":88.67534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.50284375000001,"end":85.72221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.67534375000001,"end":89.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.75971875,"end":88.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":90.22784375,"end":98.39534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.18096875,"end":94.58159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.72034375000001,"end":99.81284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.81284375000001,"end":99.82971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.82971875000001,"end":100.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":100.15034375,"end":100.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.53846875,"end":104.92596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.55034375000001,"end":119.08409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.52284375,"end":126.62721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.59034375,"end":119.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.10846875000001,"end":125.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.22221875000001,"end":126.61034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.62721875000001,"end":128.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.78721875,"end":128.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.97284375,"end":139.84034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.31284375,"end":141.12284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.44346875000002,"end":143.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.62846875,"end":152.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.66534375,"end":156.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.12034375000002,"end":163.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.91659375,"end":188.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.43596875,"end":194.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.27471875,"end":197.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.83534375000002,"end":199.30784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.30784375000002,"end":199.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.32471875000002,"end":199.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.34159375000002,"end":199.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.93221875,"end":200.10096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.10096875000002,"end":201.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":200.11784375000002,"end":200.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.94034375,"end":207.27284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.57659375,"end":208.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.46659375000002,"end":224.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":209.50034375,"end":212.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":212.87534375,"end":213.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.19846875000002,"end":224.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.40096875,"end":228.36659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.85596875000002,"end":233.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.69909375,"end":261.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","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謝謝是不是有請我們經濟部部長"},{"start":37.13,"end":59.626,"text":"委員好。部長,這個今年颱風比較多,那颱風天最重要的也最辛苦的就是台電的維修人員,以防台天,我們大家都要怎麼避險,可是他們要去修復電力,所以他們是往危險的地方走。"},{"start":60.627,"end":79.173,"text":"那所以可以想像的就是說你在颱風天這些維修人員第一個他們工作辛苦那我想要請教因為我台電也有在旁邊齁如果部長有不清楚你就可以直接回答就是說這些台電的維修人員他們在颱風天出勤他們的薪水有沒有增加"},{"start":80.853,"end":104.682,"text":"呃,有加班費,但是實際的狀況我來請這個臺電的部長來跟各位報告因為我,我知道更實際的狀況比你臺電還要清楚是,我們臺風天出勤有另外有危險增貼有危險增貼嘛,對不對是,我們危險增貼是10月1號,我們國營市才剛調,調了那個是指臺電的內部維修人員但是現在臺電,臺電內部維修人員越來越少了,你們現在是不是都外包"},{"start":105.972,"end":125.043,"text":"有一半是外包的幾乎啦,依我在嘉義看,超過一半是外包好,你們外包的時候,你們請求外包單位在颱風天出去工作的時候有沒有額外給他們加給我們是加給,你給外包公司另外的幾副計算的方式完全不一樣,颱風是按時間給價"},{"start":129.065,"end":143.374,"text":"好,計算方式不一樣。我跟你說,大概一些維修人員的心聲,外包公司的維修人員幾乎都不想在颱風天出來工作。第一,費用。第二,外包公司也沒有額外給他錢啊。"},{"start":145.68,"end":162.728,"text":"沒有啊,你們給外包公司颱風天另外記下,他也沒有另外給那些維修人員啊所以對於他們那些維修人員來說,颱風天出來多危險啊所以你知道現在颱風天在於這個地方維修的效率越來越差"},{"start":164.96,"end":188.634,"text":"比你們因為最近才開始大放外包以前大概都是台電自己內部的維修嘛現在開始把它轉成一半是外包那你一半外包的時候你們對於外包公司他們對於員工的一些照顧以及在危險危險應該要額外給津貼的時候你們有算給他OK這個是應該要算的但是你們卻沒有進一步的去督促"},{"start":189.474,"end":207.866,"text":"他外包公司有沒有把應該要額外算給他的,如實全部給他的員工,出來維修的員工?這個我們來要求。第一個要求。第二個,如果要要求的話,你們應該要要求這一些出來工作的員工,要有編號。"},{"start":210.501,"end":232.559,"text":"我們有名單,一定有名單那你們台電要做的工作很簡單啊,你就叫人出來選選看這裡的人做什麼,就知道這裡的編號有出來,這裡的編號有出來,就這裡的人要記給他們這樣第一個避免備用人頭,因為外包公司品質我們怎樣不知道,可是我們要把制度設計好"},{"start":234.54,"end":250.168,"text":"這裏真的有來做的,就應該他們有做,就要給人們。是,應該,應該。對吧?所以你們這個制度要用好,不然我在颱風天我就拜託那些維修人員,因為我們這層頭也要修理,那層頭也要修理,我們也都去那裡說,你們這裡修理好嗎?我就是怕說,我們這樣一天說下去,我就說這樣中途來,我們快寬把包還是什麼。當然我們也是希望他們的卡丘那麼快。"},{"start":261.713,"end":277.193,"text":"但是我們不能互相催促啊!但是齁,我要跟他們互動的過程,我很聽到他們的心聲,讓我覺得很難過。是,感謝委員。這這,我們,鳳台鐵的待遇和包廂是很好的待遇啦。我知道,您讓包廂這麼好啊,所以包廂我們說鳳台鐵出來OK啊,但是他的人他調不出來啊。"},{"start":280.582,"end":282.003,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":309.577,"end":312.103,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":321.63,"end":343.543,"text":"好部長那我再接下去問所以我們現在有很多產業園區事實上我們產業園區我們第一個需要勞動力但是這些勞動力他們現在對於尤其在偏鄉像我們嘉義的產業園區不管是南進或是中埔的這樣的產業園區基本上相對於北部來說對年輕人來說比較偏鄉比較偏鄉基本上生活機能是比較不好的"},{"start":350.387,"end":363.724,"text":"所以我跟部長我具體建議啦因為時間也沒有剩很多我具體建議說我們產業園區署是不是都有一塊地要整起來變成這個產業園區的這個辦公室每個地方都有嘛"},{"start":365.117,"end":389.328,"text":"我們都有服務中心阿服務中心對都有服務中心我的具體建議啦我們因為現在國家在蓋社會住宅事實上在找公有地很困難你們為什麼這樣的一個服務中心跟社會住宅不能整併在一起然後讓這一些在產業園區上面的員工他可以就近有便宜的房子可以租那這樣的話對於他們來來這個產業園區上班第一個我們希望產業園區的"},{"start":395.191,"end":404.559,"text":"的企業可以照顧他的員工,薪水要高,如果他又可以就近,有地方可以住,然後他也可以省下他很大的交通費。"},{"start":412.845,"end":413.306,"text":"進行報告：一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及基層員工薪資水準"},{"start":430.165,"end":443.46,"text":"謝謝委員,我想你這個意見非常的好那我們會帶回去跟國土署跟國土署可以商量一下跟內政部,我想我們充分的來討論快速的討論解決現在目前的問題"},{"start":444.481,"end":473.215,"text":"我覺得這一點因為現在有些產業園區還在興建中像我們嘉義的南境、中埔的公館水上南境這個產業園區還在興建所以這個服務中心還沒有蓋好也還沒有開始所以現在去規劃阿剛好讓那裡都有社會住宅這樣起來我覺得就是一個很適當的一個方式好不好好那這部分就期待部長朝這方向來努力還有剛剛台電那一件事情我覺得我們要督促好"},{"start":473.915,"end":485.683,"text":"讓下一次訪台聽的時候再來外包公司的工人一樣感受到替國家賣命替國家來努力是有他的報酬的好不好好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":915,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時33分）有請經濟部部長。"],["主席：請經濟部郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，今年颱風比較多，颱風天最重要也最辛苦的就是台電的維修人員，在颱風天我們大家都在想要怎麼避險，可是他們卻要去修復電力，所以他們是往危險的地方走，可以想像在颱風天這些維修人員工作的辛苦。我想要請教，台電也有在旁邊，如果部長有不清楚的地方，你可以直接回答，這些台電的維修人員在颱風天出勤，他們的薪水有沒有增加？"],["郭部長智輝：有加班費，但是實際的狀況，我請台電副總跟各位報告。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，實際狀況請台電說明，因為我知道更實際的狀況，比台電還要清楚。"],["陳副總經理銘樹：我們颱風天出勤另外有危險津貼。"],["蔡委員易餘：有危險津貼，對不對？"],["陳副總經理銘樹：我們的危險津貼10月1日國營司才剛調，調了……"],["蔡委員易餘：那個是指台電的內部維修人員，但是現在台電內部維修人員越來越少了，你們現在是不是都外包？"],["陳副總經理銘樹：有一半是外包的。"],["蔡委員易餘：幾乎啦！以我在嘉義看，有超過一半是外包。你們請求外包單位在颱風天出去工作的時候有沒有額外給他們另外的給付？"],["陳副總經理銘樹：有，計算方式完全不一樣，颱風是按時間給假。"],["蔡委員易餘：計算方式不一樣。我跟你說那些維修人員的心聲，外包公司的維修人員幾乎都不想在颱風天出來工作，第一個，危險。第二個，外包公司也沒有額外給他錢，沒有啊！你們給外包公司在颱風天另外計價，它也沒有另外給那些維修人員，所以對那些維修人員來說，颱風天出來危險多了。你知道現在颱風天在地方維修的效率越來越差，因為你們最近才開始大放外包，以前大概都是台電自己內部維修，現在開始把它轉成一半是外包，一半外包的時候，外包公司對於員工的照顧以及應該要額外給危險津貼的時候，你們有算給它，OK！這個是應該要算的，但是你們卻沒有進一步去督促外包公司有沒有把應該要額外算給他的，如實全部給出來維修的員工。"],["陳副總經理銘樹：這個我們來要求。"],["蔡委員易餘：第一個，你們要要求。第二個，如果要要求的話，你們應該要求這些出來工作的員工要有編號。"],["陳副總經理銘樹：我們有電腦名單。"],["蔡委員易餘：編號要清楚，台電要做的工作很簡單，你們就叫人出來巡，看看這些人有沒有在工作，就知道這些編號有沒有出來，這些編號的人有出來工作就要多給他們錢，第一個，避免被人頭利用，因為我們不知道外包公司品質怎樣，可是我們要把制度設計好，這些真的有來做的人，他們有做就應該要多給人家，對吧？"],["陳副總經理銘樹：是，應該的。"],["蔡委員易餘：你們這個制度要設計好，我在颱風天有陪那些維修人員，因為我們這個村子也要修理，那個村子也要修理，我也有去那裡問他們，你們這裡修理好了沒有，我也會怕這樣講會給人家壓力，所以我們中午也趕快準備肉包，還是做什麼，當然我們也是希望他們的動作快一點，不過我們不能催人家。我跟他們互動的過程就有聽到他們的心聲，我覺得很難過。"],["陳副總經理銘樹：感謝委員，我們颱風天給包商是很好的待遇，我們會來要求。"],["蔡委員易餘：我知道你們給包商很好，所以包商也認為在颱風天出來OK，不過它的人調不出來，下面的員工不跟它出來。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，這個我們會回去檢討，以後能夠讓實際出來冒險在工作的人得到他實際應該得到的報酬。"],["蔡委員易餘：沒有錯，他在颱風天冒著這樣的生命危險，替我們在恢復電力。"],["郭部長智輝：也不會讓他超時工作。"],["蔡委員易餘：他應該就是要得到報酬。"],["郭部長智輝：我想各方面的安全、危險都要綜合考量，並做好防範。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，台電可以請回。今天產業園區署有來嗎？"],["主席：請產發署楊署長。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，我再接下去問，我們現在有很多產業園區，事實上，第一個，產業園區需要勞動力，但是這些勞動力對於尤其在偏鄉，像嘉義的產業園區，不管是南靖或中埔的產業園區，基本上相對於北部來說，對年輕人來說比較偏鄉，比較偏鄉基本上生活機能是比較不好的，所以我跟部長具體建議，產業園區署是不是都有一塊地要整起來變成這個產業園區的辦公室，每個地方都有嘛？"],["郭部長智輝：我們都有服務中心。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，都有服務中心，我的具體建議是，因為現在國家在蓋社會住宅，事實上在找公有地很困難，為什麼這樣的服務中心和社會住宅不能整併在一起，讓這些在產業園區上班的員工可以就近有便宜的房子可以租？這樣的話，對於他們來產業園區上班，第一個，我們希望產業園區的企業可以照顧他的員工，薪水要高，如果他又可以就近有地方住，也可以省下很大的交通費，你們既然在那裡有公有地，而且你們的服務中心都差不多蓋1樓、2樓、3樓，你們可以蓋到9樓、10樓以上，上面做社會住宅使用，又解決了我們現在在尋求社會住宅，社會住宅也要放在適當的地方，有的放在比較偏僻的地方，不好，我覺得最好的就是放在產業園區裡面。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員，你這個意見非常好，我們會帶回去跟國土署……"],["蔡委員易餘：可以跟國土署商量一下。"],["郭部長智輝：跟內政部我們充分的來討論、快速的討論，解決目前的問題。"],["蔡委員易餘：因為現在有一些產業園區還在興建中，像我們嘉義中埔公館、水上南靖產業園區還在興建中，所以服務中心還沒有蓋好，也還沒有開始，所以現在去規劃，剛好讓那裡有社會住宅，這樣規劃起來我覺得就是一個很適當的方式，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好。"],["蔡委員易餘：這部分就期待部長朝這個方向來努力，還有剛剛台電那一件事情，我覺得我們要督促好，讓下一次颱風天的時候，外包公司的工人一樣感受到替國家賣命、替國家努力是有其報酬的，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蔡易餘委員，時間掌握非常精準，令主席敬佩。"],["主席（蔡委員易餘代）：下一位請邱志偉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-10","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","林岱樺","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","葉元之","許宇甄","賴士葆","陳冠廷","牛煦庭","羅智強","王鴻薇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-06"],"gazette_id":"1139401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院主計總處首長、勞動部首長、教育部首\n長、財政部首長就「我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策，暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工薪\n資水準」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員就「我國傳統產\n業及中小企業發展困境探討、因應對策及相關振興方案」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}