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.913,"text":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及基層員工薪資水準"},{"start":46.909,"end":75.197,"text":"那這種情況這個我們中油為了要使民生跟住宅用電能夠不受調漲然後他提出請行政院撥補一千億來彌補這個1.18元的缺口所以讓民生跟住宅用電可以維持、可以動長但當然同樣國營事業中油跟台電都是跟民生相關台電可以由政府來撥補兩千億"},{"start":77.048,"end":98.312,"text":"那當然油氣要漲他才能反映成本新的董事長他也提出希望能夠適度合理的調整油氣的價格另外也提出四年3500億的不管是增資或者是由政府來撥補這個部分啊經濟部的立場是如何怎麼是有沒有"},{"start":99.036,"end":123.514,"text":"報告委員我想價格的部分必須由價格審議委員會來做決定那董事長我們建議不要輕易的這個來談這個樣的價格的事情不過他是在就職的時候說出這個而且他提增資或是撥補不是現在才提的提了很久我想各種財務上面的這個考量剛才這個委員就教的非常好我想改善財務的方法當然有很多"},{"start":124.4,"end":151.342,"text":"那中油的虧損其實是並不大,它是負債,借款很多,借款大概七、八千億。所以它的利息就一百億吧?對,是。所以它的虧損並不那麼大。但是它的財務的確發生困難,不管你用什麼方式解決撥補或者增資,我想行政院或者經濟部要有一定的立場。不能拖啦,不能拖。對,我們跟主計處,"},{"start":153.404,"end":178.061,"text":"國營私來共同討論這個事情如何來解決他的財務問題另外美國總統大選到目前為止的情況好像有一點點明朗但是還沒確定在未來我們當時產生財務第10條之二的部分我們針對台灣版所謂的晶片法案提供很多優惠"},{"start":179.471,"end":199.962,"text":"如果按照這個如果新的共和黨的眾議院議長加上如果未來如果是川普當選的話對晶片會課稅的話增加我們先進製程的這個成本那這種情況我們當時修了10條12的優惠大概只能適用4家"},{"start":201.212,"end":225.51,"text":"未來經濟部有沒有考慮要維持先進製程的競爭力降低它的成本有沒有可能在未來再考慮再把門檻再調整我想我們會因時因地而質疑啦我想經濟部一向就是滾動式的這個調整來因應整個環境的這個改變所以委員在提議的這個部分我們會深刻的在來考慮這樣"},{"start":226.571,"end":232.313,"text":"我擔心說我們的最大優勢是先進製程,先進製程不見得有優勢,先進製程的優勢一定要確保另外請國安會主委"},{"start":244.195,"end":271.153,"text":"主委,所謂低薪,如果按照OECD的標準,OECD定義低薪總薪資中位數的三分之二,叫低薪嘛,對不對?對那臺灣呢,臺灣的這個月薪4.6萬的三分之二,3.1萬,就是低薪所以我國的GDP成長是很快的,但是呢,我國的這個我們的最低公司是偏低的"},{"start":272.556,"end":297.55,"text":"這種情況是一個趨勢,會越來越嚴重,國花位有沒有什麼辦法?負稅署,財政負稅署。跟委員報告,用GDP來看比較,根據國外目前累積14年的分析出來的結果,GDP的成長對薪資的最高位數跟最低位數會有比較大的影響。"},{"start":299.687,"end":326.65,"text":"那它為什麼會有很大的影響以最高位數主要是資本利得在GDP成長不高的時候會影響到那低薪的部分分成兩部分一種是以退休的人員來看它會有受到很大的影響因為財務貨幣政策造成的影響的確這是一個事實這是一個數據那我們IOECD國家我們的這個人均GDP的最低工資的比例是最低的"},{"start":327.31,"end":356.437,"text":"所以這部分代表說你顯現出的確是有低薪問題而且是青年低薪而且是集中在中小型企業或者服務業的低薪對不對這部分國安會應該整合各部會來協調比如說為什麼請賦稅署來或者怎麼樣用提供這個租稅優惠讓企業提供誘因給企業提供誘因來對員工加薪如果你對企業提供加薪我就對你這個稅賦有相關的這個誘因要想一些方法"},{"start":357.037,"end":373.742,"text":"這是很好的方法可是我目前沒有看到具體的做法有足夠的誘因讓這些企業願意加薪來換取他租稅的減免這是很好的方法也許我們看看負稅署會不會支持負稅署報告我們的中小企業發展條約今年剛完成修法那有提供中小企業加薪減稅的措施"},{"start":387.792,"end":393.838,"text":"這個太籠統了你看一下中小企業借貸的管道中小企業應該是政府要高度扶持"},{"start":394.628,"end":420.915,"text":"因為他相對的他的這個資本他的這個相關籌資管道不夠所以你看他政府提供給中小企業貸款條件限制多條件嚴苛、名額有限、使用時間長這部分也是要國會去協調財政部門去做對,這個部分也在我們這次新公告的方案之一就是如果企業願意去調薪的話我們也會在貸款上面給予支持"},{"start":421.454,"end":450.105,"text":"所以這個很多政策阿你們應該要更積極要開放而且力道要強一點下的要某一點而且你要設定一個KPI一個目標值你到民國幾年你要達到這個平均薪資要多少錢服務業平均薪資然後中小型企業製造業平均薪資要達到多少錢這個你一定要設定很嚴謹的目標然後按照這個目標你隨時每年度甚至每個月去管控"},{"start":451.095,"end":479.457,"text":"所以為什麼產發署要那麼重要?為什麼中小企業發展署那麼重要?因為經濟部下面所屬的跟中小企業相關的就是產發署、中小企業署跟這個商發署相對產業弱勢但是是我們所有市民、百姓、國人、同胞在從事的行業都是中小企業為主對不對?都是服務業為主但是飽受地心之苦所以這個很多的問題我想"},{"start":480.674,"end":482.075,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":959,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時41分）謝謝主席，我先自我宣告：我的發言時間是6加2分鐘，請經濟部部長、產發署署長、中小企業署李署長、商業發展署蘇署長。中油董總剛交接，但是中油今年累計虧損大概637億，這種狀況每年的利息負擔大概100億，它又因為政策的關係承受政策的負擔，所以它吸收了這些成本，累計虧損大概已經好幾千億，接近4,000億。中油為了要使民生和住宅用電能夠不受調漲，它提出請行政院撥補1,000億來彌補1.18億元的缺口，所以讓民生和住宅用電可以維持、可以凍漲。當然，同樣是國營事業，中油和台電都是跟民生相關，台電可以由政府撥補2,000億，油氣要漲才能反映成本，新的董事長也提出希望能夠適度合理的調整油氣價格。另外也提出四年3,500億的，不管是增資或者是由政府來撥補，這個部分經濟部的立場是怎麼樣？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想價格的部分必須由價格審議委員會來決定，我們建議董事長不要輕易的來談價格的事情。"],["邱委員志偉：不過他是在就職的時候說出這個，而且他提增資或者撥補不是現在才提的，提了很久。"],["郭部長智輝：關於各種財務上面的考量，剛才委員就教得非常好，我想改善財務的方法當然有很多，中油的虧損其實並不大……"],["邱委員志偉：四千多億不大？"],["郭部長智輝：它的負債，它借款很多，借款大約7、8,000……"],["邱委員志偉：所以利息就100億嘛？"],["郭部長智輝：是，但是它的虧損並沒有那麼大……"],["邱委員志偉：但是它的財務的確發生困難。"],["郭部長智輝：對！"],["邱委員志偉：不管你用什麼方式解決，撥補或者增資，我想行政院或者經濟部要有一定的立場。"],["郭部長智輝：是，這個我們會跟主計處……"],["邱委員志偉：不能拖啦！不能拖！"],["郭部長智輝：對，我們跟主計處還有國營司共同討論這個事情，看如何來解決它的財務問題。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝部長。另外，美國總統大選到目前為止的情況好像有一點點明朗，但是還沒確定啦！在未來，我們當時產創條例第十條之二的部分，我們針對臺灣版所謂的晶片法案提供很多的優惠，如果新的眾議院院長，加上未來如果是川普當選，對晶片課稅的話，會增加我們先進製程的成本，在這種情況下，我們當時修了第十條之二的優惠大概只能適用4家，未來經濟部有沒有考慮要維持先進製程的競爭力，降低它的成本？未來有沒有可能考慮再調整門檻？"],["郭部長智輝：我想我們會因時因地制宜啦！經濟部一向是滾動式調整，來因應整個環境的改變，所以委員所提議的這個部分，我們會深刻的來考慮。"],["邱委員志偉：我擔心我們最大優勢的先進製程……成熟製程不見得有優勢，先進製程的優勢一定要確保。","另外請國發會主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：主委，所謂的低薪，如果按照OECD的標準，OECD對於低薪的定義是總薪資中位數的三分之二就是低薪嘛，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["邱委員志偉：那臺灣呢？臺灣月薪4.6萬的三分之二，即3.1萬就是低薪，所以我國的GDP成長是快的，但是我國的最低工資是偏低的，這種情況是一個趨勢，會越來越嚴重，國發會有沒有什麼辦法？那財政部賦稅署呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告，用GDP來看比較，根據國外目前累積14年分析出來的結果，GDP成長對薪資的最高位數跟最低位數會有比較大的影響，那它為什麼會有很大的影響？最高位數主要是資本利得，在GDP成長不高的時候會影響到，GDP低薪的部分分成兩部分，一種是以退休人員來看，他會受到很大的影響，因為貨幣政策造成的影響……"],["邱委員志偉：不是，的確這是一個事實、這是一個數據。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["邱委員志偉：OECD國家，我們的人均GDP、最低工資的比例是最低的，所以這部分顯現出的確是有低薪問題，而且是青年低薪，並集中在中小型企業或者服務業的低薪，對不對？針對這部分，國發會應該整合各部會來協調……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：有。"],["邱委員志偉：為什麼請賦稅署？怎麼樣提供租稅優惠，提供企業誘因來對員工加薪？如果企業加薪，針對它的稅賦就提供相關的誘因，要想一些方法，這是行政部門要做的……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這是很好的方法。"],["邱委員志偉：可是我目前沒有看到具體的作法，有足夠的誘因讓這些企業願意加薪，來換取它租稅的減免。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這是很好的方法，也許我們看看賦稅署願不願意支持。"],["邱委員志偉：賦稅署目前有沒有具體的作法？"],["倪副署長麗心：賦稅署報告，中小企業發展條例今年剛完成修法，有提供中小企業加薪減稅的措施。"],["邱委員志偉：這個太籠統了，你看一下中小企業借貸的管道，中小企業應該是政府要高度扶持的，因為它的資本、它的相關籌資管道相對不夠。你看政府提供給中小企業的貸款方案限制多、條件嚴苛、名額有限、審核時間長，這部分也是國發會要去協調財政部門做的。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，這個部分也在我們這次新公告的方案之一，如果企業願意調薪的話，我們也會在貸款上面給予支持。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你們應該要更積極開放很多政策，而且力道要強一點，下得藥要猛一點，而且你要設定一個KPI、一個目標值，如民國幾年的平均薪資要達到多少錢，服務業平均薪資、然後中小型企業、製造業的平均薪資要達到多少錢，這個你一定要設定很嚴謹的目標，然後按照這個目標，隨時、每年度甚至每個月去管控，所以為什麼產發署那麼重要，為什麼中小及新創企業署那麼重要？因為經濟部下面所屬，跟中小企業相關的就是產發署、中小及新創企業署跟商發署嘛？當然相對來講產業弱勢，但是所有市民百姓、國民、國人同胞從事的行業都是以中小企業為主，對不對？都是以服務業為主，但是飽受低薪之苦啊！","很多的問題我想一時半刻這8分鐘也沒有辦法有太多的說明，國家面臨到那麼多的問題，我希望政府一定要更團結，然後更積極的去想一些有效果、有效率的作法，讓人民有感，讓中小企業跟服務業的薪資能夠有實質的提升，謝謝！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好，是的，委員。"],["主席：哇！召委以身作則，分秒不差，太厲害了！"],["主席（邱委員志偉）：下一位請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-10","speakers":["邱志偉","陳亭妃","林岱樺","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","鄭天財Sra 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