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好?三日內部長可不可以允諾啊?"},{"start":208.369,"end":223.462,"text":"謝謝委員關心我想這是沒有問題因為我們從系統、從地方大家合作再進一步的確認你提到系統兩個字我覺得未來這樣的事件我覺得這次要稍微檢討一下就是說未來有沒有一個更快速的清查機制這個我們未來再來討論接下來我們討論今天電子煙的這個議題"},{"start":227.546,"end":249.248,"text":"部長我想這個校園電子煙犯案的議題很多一線教師家長都非常擔心煙害防治法明令禁止電子煙已經一年多了但是呢電子煙顯然沒有絕跡甚至還有昨天媒體報導一名未前年高中生在IG上面貼了一張圖片然後說你要什麼牌子口味的文字呢就被認定有販售意圖被開罰20萬"},{"start":251.73,"end":277.812,"text":"那當然如果他確定有這樣的意圖他甚至有這樣的行為當然是不應該要開罰但是也許會不會有一些年輕人搞不清楚這個玩笑的界線等等我想確認一下這個教育部有沒有這個掌握20歲以下因為這些不理解還是亂搞誤觸了這個法網有沒有相關的人員數額金額被罰款多少有沒有這樣的一個掌握啊"},{"start":278.693,"end":305.481,"text":"這未成年啊他這個搞不清楚狀況啊我同意委員剛才所提的確實有一些青少年他自己同才就是開玩笑對有那有沒有掌握20歲以下處罰人數這個部分我們確實目前是我沒有沒有這個資料掌握一下一週內提出好不好因為我覺得學生在成長當中啦教育部的責任就是要協助他們成長那所以我們應該要掌握他們的這個狀況可以嗎一週內提出20歲以下好"},{"start":306.781,"end":311.584,"text":"教育部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長"},{"start":330.602,"end":344.27,"text":"說自己有吸食電子煙,你知道這個比例嗎?我們都知道人數啦,8萬人10萬人,你知道是多少嗎?比例是多少嗎?大概,跟委員報告,校園內裡邊確實我們學生是比較少的110年就是8.8%了,今年很可能就已經破10%了,照這樣計算起來,10個人可能有1個人"},{"start":351.434,"end":367.252,"text":"如果我數字有錯可以更正好不好因為後面有人搖了歪了一下頭但是大家要掌握這件事不要看這八萬十萬你可能不理解這件事情的嚴重性那為什麼會發生這個你說這個外面有八八十八八萬十萬只有38件"},{"start":368.993,"end":397.837,"text":"這個當然我還是要非常感謝第一線教育人員有警覺心而不是零件嘛他們還是找到一些但是這很顯然是通報機制的問題我想請教一下部長今天可不可以允諾啦因為其實呢使用電子煙並不是明定的校安通報項目這個通報稽查的這個整個過程也非常模糊不清楚我想請問一下部長今天可不可以當場允諾對高中以下的校園吸煙的案件包含使用電子煙的案件"},{"start":398.277,"end":418.767,"text":"無論是透過現有的校安機制或其他方式可不可以明定一個明確的處理機制通報流程SOP畢竟教育現場的通報是不是能夠啟動後續轉弦機制通報是最重要的關鍵這個可不可以允諾啊不然我們弦線的人員家長搞不清楚啊"},{"start":419.327,"end":438.627,"text":"跟委員報告我們確實在許多校園的一些陰害或者相關的一些暴力的一個是有SOP的那這個有沒有我們現在是電子煙專報電子煙這個部分我想我們都是在陰害防制裡面的一個系統有沒有通報稽查的流程那是不是校安通報的項目"},{"start":439.648,"end":466.063,"text":"就是校園當然也都是屬於煙害防制裡面的一個項目第10我在這裡問喔雖然我們國會改革法案這個遇到一些挑戰喔我們還是不我們是不認為官員可以說謊的使用電子煙到底是不是明定的校安通報項目我講這句話的時候你們後面的同仁是搖頭說不是你剛剛跟我說是到底是還是不是差了兩千一百兩千一百倍的數字"},{"start":467.725,"end":472.167,"text":"跟委員報告 目前通報的部分是針對學生的人身安全的部分對嘛 所以沒有電子煙部長 所以這塊可不可以允諾"},{"start":492.523,"end":492.743,"text":"那結果勒?現在?"},{"start":522.233,"end":549.691,"text":"在搜尋引擎上面你隨便打電子煙販售的網站一搜一大把啦齁各種品牌各種口味各種廣告的標語不曉得副署長您自己有沒有上網搜尋看看這就是你們所謂源頭主角的成效嗎到底這些商家有沒有把國家的法規放在眼裡這是怎麼回事你們有沒有通報機制你們到底怎麼跟這些業者平台來配合"},{"start":550.75,"end":571.499,"text":"報告委員,針對這個有關我們跟Google他們協助的部分其實我們是協助這個就是衛福部這邊然後我們有綠色通道的部分就是說各部會它其實基本上它只要有法源的部分我們這邊都會幫忙那如果沒有法源的部分我們其實就是幫忙協助電子煙有法源嗎?"},{"start":572.847,"end":594.788,"text":"有嘛,後面,對嘛,我們今天整個活動都是在講有法源他要被禁止,結果禁止得不好嘛。呃,境外的部分目前沒有法源。我現在講的,喔,您說他把網站,欸我們今天找到一個問題喔,所以您現在,那您要,您都有確定這些主機都在國外嗎?我待會回去就稽查喔,那在國內的你們要不要處理?"},{"start":595.589,"end":620.658,"text":"主機在國內要不要處理?要不要配合?而且你剛剛的意思是說你們跟衛福部配合嘛你們只是幫忙衛福部聯繫MetaGoogle,是這樣嗎?這就是你們能做的嗎?報告委員,我們還有另外做一件事,就是有關點TW域名的部分我們也做了處理那經過衛福部查,查總會有一百...所以是用域名來算境外,還是用主機?基本上...副署長,這個您是專家,您要了解喔,搞清楚喔"},{"start":622.532,"end":641.19,"text":"難道育民是TW主機就在台灣嗎?不見得 但是因為點TW育民可以在台灣可以由TW來處理我這 副市長您能不能針對現在這個狀況一週之內提出一個現在的你們的這個現在查緝的方式跟衛福部配合的方式啊?報告委員 副市長"},{"start":642.745,"end":657.271,"text":"不好意思,我是副署長,這是我們部裡的司長,抱歉,因為就是域名的部分是我們部裡面在處理,那我們就是署裡面的部分,我們協助的部分是針對就是說跟Google他們就是打聲招呼"},{"start":663.334,"end":676.071,"text":"其實有時候打招呼也是不容易的還有我們有幫忙的部分是那個C2C的那些業者然後我們也是會督促他們副組長我理解我相信你用心良苦但是我提醒您"},{"start":677.517,"end":684.924,"text":"所以你們各個部會不要再用聯絡這些廠商打招呼都很困難這種方式來回應但我了解你很用心這個回去處理一下"},{"start":697.717,"end":720.654,"text":"因為這還不是唯一一個年輕人遇到的問題我都不放這些廣告放這些廣告是違法這也不是廣告這就是年輕人會遇到在網路上看到的東西再來還有更離譜的是當然教育部有這個AI的準則我們年輕人也很會用AI但是結果啦現在在這些AI的平台上面你竟然只要問一個問題AI幫你整理出所有的電子煙的網站"},{"start":722.695,"end":731.001,"text":"這樣子的一個狀況請教一下教育部、衛福部、數發部跟法務部的官員到底哪一個部會來主責啊AI幫他推薦電子煙哪一個部會主責我本來要說主席謝謝時間暫停但已經停了對不起再給我一點時間所以教育部長站出來了"},{"start":749.448,"end":754.829,"text":"教育部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部長"},{"start":774.773,"end":788.06,"text":"各部會的代表是不是可以承諾協同教育部去建立一個緊密的校園淹害防治的機制包含介治後續的通路剛剛其實有 委員有提到這個現在是誰主責就淹害跟委員報告淹害防治當然目前是衛福部但我想包含剛才委員所關心的"},{"start":801.3,"end":802.221,"text":"各位再30秒好不好"},{"start":827.093,"end":849.729,"text":"好 我們現在看到一個很嚴重的問題啦速發部通茶網有個案外案出現了就是我們這一次發現速發部的這個通茶網不小心變成詐騙集團的廣告平台變成關鍵字的累積但是我們現在發現各級大專院校包含私立跟國立都變成了詐騙集團連結的跳板"},{"start":851.75,"end":864.856,"text":"你隨便一搜一大堆的學校我不想唸出來待會你們自己回去搜尋我們連結都會附上這些東西點下去呢直接跳過去就會變成什麼變成詐騙集團的我不想唸出來啦超差部署社團啦"},{"start":872.159,"end":895.669,"text":"直接都是從校園裡面連過去全部的東西都是配息高配息連高雄市教育局都進去了國立大學到今天連台灣大學都進去了這是速發部的這個通查網的一個案外案部長我們現在這種寄生上流2.0詐騙集團的連結寄生到不只是我們的速發部的連結連大專院校"},{"start":898.811,"end":922.827,"text":"臺灣大學都中招直接變成詐騙集團的詐騙王子古海明燈教育部長是不是跟速發部要一起聯手來處理一下這個問題兩週內處理成果可不可以提供出來這個部分我們請會後教育部、速發部跟葛委員再詳細的報告跟說明謝謝主席緊急事態大家一起來幫忙"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:03:12.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:03:12.358000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:03:12.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:03:13.759000+08:00","text":"有請教育部鄭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-07T10:03:13.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:03:13.799000+08:00","text":"有請鄭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:03:13.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:03:13.839000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:03:14.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:03:14.319000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:03:15.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:03:17.180000+08:00","text":"今天真的很感謝我們的召委安排這樣的議題，我想所有官員也應該都是把我們的學員、學童都當成我們自己的孩子在關照，但是近期真的有很多事件需要我們關心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:03:17.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:11.090000+08:00","text":"首先，本席昨天接獲家長陳情，有一名涉犯未成年兒少性猥褻案的前科人士違法入境來臺，移民署接獲AIT通知緊急發函，據網傳的公文，當然密件公文是不能外傳的，但是網路就開始傳出去了，10月24號的時候教育部好像有發函要請各級學校、補習班清查，是不是曾經聘任或運用該名人士？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:11.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:13.571000+08:00","text":"這個字還用得很特別──「聘任」或「運用」。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:14.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:19.232000+08:00","text":"請教一下部長，目前全國各級學校、補習班是不是已經清查完畢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:19.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:22.412000+08:00","text":"有沒有縣市教育局清查的結果？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:22.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:24.093000+08:00","text":"還有學校、補習班的回報？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:25.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:30.560000+08:00","text":"有沒有這個性猥褻前科的外籍人士被聘用的紀錄？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:30.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:36.568000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們確實有發這個通知，要提醒我們所有學校跟補習班。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:36.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:38.571000+08:00","text":"提醒很棒，我說有沒有完成清查？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"梁司長學政","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:41.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:51.282000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為外籍人士要聘用進來的話，必須要提供類似良民證這樣的申請。對啊！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:51.282000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:52.282000+08:00","text":"我們知道啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"梁司長學政","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:52.282000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:53.282000+08:00","text":"所以系統在申請的時候就……","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:51.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:52.783000+08:00","text":"為什麼需要發這個東西呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:52.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:54.063000+08:00","text":"你們應該知道沒有啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:54.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:55.023000+08:00","text":"你為什麼還要發？","quality":1},{"speaker":"梁司長學政","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:55.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:58.384000+08:00","text":"是，但是我們還是會去提醒，所以說是「通知」，提醒各位……","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:04:58.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:04:59.985000+08:00","text":"所以就不用清查嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:00.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:02.486000+08:00","text":"現在通知完了，清查結果回來了沒？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:03.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:05.447000+08:00","text":"因為你們也覺得可能有漏洞、有黑數嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"梁司長學政","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:07.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:15.410000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為是通知，而在系統上、在申請的時候就會擋掉，有些是因為部分縣市政府他們比較擔心，自己會進行清查。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:16.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:19.212000+08:00","text":"所以到底我們能不能確保他沒有被運用、沒有被聘任？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:19.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:20.672000+08:00","text":"教育部能不能在此確保？","quality":1},{"speaker":"梁司長學政","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:20.672000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:22.173000+08:00","text":"如果從我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:22.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:22.953000+08:00","text":"不行嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"梁司長學政","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:23.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:26.915000+08:00","text":"從機制上應該是會擋掉，因為不應該違法聘任。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:26.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:29.275000+08:00","text":"那能不能確保嘛？對嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:29.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:29.796000+08:00","text":"你不能嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:30.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:32.157000+08:00","text":"什麼時候會完成清查？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:32.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:33.277000+08:00","text":"有沒有訂一個deadline？","quality":1},{"speaker":"梁司長學政","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:35.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:43.390000+08:00","text":"如果委員覺得我們需要，我們也可以請各縣市政府來清查，但只是說會不會每一次有一位進來，我們就每次都要啟動各縣市清查。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:44.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:51.697000+08:00","text":"不是，現在這一位因為有密件的問題，家長非常憂心，是不是三日內可以協助？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:52.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:58.522000+08:00","text":"我覺得不是把這個責任就丟到地方，教育部是不是已經清查過內部沒有這個聘用紀錄了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:05:58.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:05:59.963000+08:00","text":"你們自己內部清查過了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:06:01.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:06:02.291000+08:00","text":"清查完了嗎？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"梁司長學政","start":"2024-11-07T10:06:02.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:06:03.872000+08:00","text":"我們系統上面是沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:06:04.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:06:05.994000+08:00","text":"沒有這個人？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:06:05.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:06:07.776000+08:00","text":"所以你們自己已經完成自己的清查？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:06:08.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:06:08.777000+08:00","text":"是各縣市政府？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"梁司長學政","start":"2024-11-07T10:06:09.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:06:13.821000+08:00","text":"聘任因為是在縣市政府聘任，所以如果有需要，必須要請縣市政府來協助。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:06:15.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:06:26.052000+08:00","text":"好，還是希望你們三日內要確認他是不是有受僱於任何學校或補習班，我覺得從你們內部的資料去確認，當然外部的有交出資料的，你們就進行統整好不好？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:06:26.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:06:27.534000+08:00","text":"三日內，部長可不可以允諾？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:06:29.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:06:36.536000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關心，我想這是沒有問題，因為我們從系統、從地方大家合作，再進一步的確認。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:06:36.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:06:43.462000+08:00","text":"好，你提到系統兩個字，我覺得這次要稍微檢討一下，就是說未來這樣的事件有沒有一個更快速的清查機制？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:06:43.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:06:43.962000+08:00","text":"這個我們未來再來討論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:06:43.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:07:17.734000+08:00","text":"接下來我們討論今天電子煙的這個議題，部長，我想校園電子煙氾濫的議題，很多一線教師、家長都非常擔心，菸害防制法明令禁止電子煙已經一年多了，但是電子煙顯然沒有絕跡，甚至昨天還有媒體報導，一名未成年高中生在IG上面貼了一張圖片，然後說你要什麼牌子、口味的文字，就被認定有販售意圖，被開罰20萬，當然如果他確定有這樣的意圖、他甚至有這樣的行為，當然不應該，要開罰！","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:07:17.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:07:34.108000+08:00","text":"但是也許會不會有一些年輕人搞不清楚這個玩笑的界限等等，我想確認一下教育部有沒有掌握20歲以下因為不理解還是亂搞而誤觸了法網？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:07:34.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:07:37.311000+08:00","text":"有沒有相關的人員、數額、金額被罰款多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:07:37.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:07:38.632000+08:00","text":"有沒有這樣的一個掌握？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:07:39.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:07:41.254000+08:00","text":"他未成年，搞不清楚狀況。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:07:41.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:07:48.316000+08:00","text":"我同意委員剛才所提的，確實有一些青少年與同儕開玩笑……對嘛！有。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:07:48.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:07:51.557000+08:00","text":"那有沒有掌握20歲以下觸法人數？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:07:51.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:07:55.218000+08:00","text":"這個部分，目前我們確實是沒有這個資料。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:07:55.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:07:56.798000+08:00","text":"掌握一下，一週內提出好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:07:57.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:08:04.640000+08:00","text":"因為我覺得學生在成長當中，教育部的責任就是要協助他們成長，所以我們應該要掌握他們的狀況，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:08:04.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:08:06.461000+08:00","text":"一週內提出，20歲以下，好不好？好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:08:06.461000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:08:07.461000+08:00","text":"有需要跨部會配合的再配合一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:08:07.461000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:08:08.461000+08:00","text":"另外我想剛剛非常多委員都提到了，這個件數真的是遠低於我們所了解的電子煙的現況，不然我們就不用有今天的專報，但是教育部長，你真的了解現在這個情況的嚴重程度嗎？","quality":0.055},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:08:08.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:08:32.803000+08:00","text":"高中職以下學生，你知道多少人裡面就有一個人說自己有吸食電子煙？","quality":0.345},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:08:32.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:08:34.104000+08:00","text":"你知道這個比例嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:08:34.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:08:37.766000+08:00","text":"我們都知道人數，什麼8萬人、10萬人，但你知道比例是多少嗎？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:08:39.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:08:43.669000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，校園內確實我們學生是比較少的，但是……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:08:43.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:08:54.677000+08:00","text":"110年就是8.8%了，今年很可能就已經破10%了，照這樣計算起來，10個人很可能就有1個人，如果我數字有錯，可以更正好不好？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:08:54.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:08:56.939000+08:00","text":"因為後面有人歪了一下頭。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:08:56.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:09:05.008000+08:00","text":"但是大家要掌握這件事，不要看8萬、10萬，你可能不理解這件事情的嚴重性，為什麼會發生這個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:09:05.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:09:18.500000+08:00","text":"你說外面有8%、10%，8萬、10萬，只有38件，這個當然我還是要非常感謝第一線教育人員有警覺心，而不是零件，他們還是找到了一些，但是這很顯然是通報機制的問題。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:09:18.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:09:48.281000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下部長，今天可不可以允諾，其實使用電子煙並不是明定的校安通報項目，這個通報稽查的整個過程也非常模糊不清楚，我想請問一下部長，今天可不可以當場允諾──對高中以下校園吸菸的案件，包含使用電子煙的案件，無論是透過現有的校安機制或其他方式，可不可以明定一個明確的處理機制、通報流程SOP？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:09:48.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:09:56.545000+08:00","text":"畢竟教育現場的通報是不是能夠啟動後續轉銜機制，通報是最重要的關鍵，這個可不可以允諾？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:09:57.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:09:59.747000+08:00","text":"不然我們前線的人員、家長搞不清楚啊！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:00.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:08.456000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在許多校園的一些菸害或者相關的一些暴力，我們確實是有一個SOP的……","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:08.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:09.497000+08:00","text":"那這個有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:09.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:11.299000+08:00","text":"我們現在是電子煙專報。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:11.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:14.502000+08:00","text":"電子煙這個部分，我想我們都是在菸害防制裡面的一個……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:14.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:17.805000+08:00","text":"有沒有通報、稽查的流程？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:17.805000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:18.805000+08:00","text":"我們本來就有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:18.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:19.607000+08:00","text":"那是不是校安通報的項目？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:20.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:24.010000+08:00","text":"就是校安，因為都是屬於菸害防制裡面的一個項目……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:24.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:35.156000+08:00","text":"我在這裡問，雖然我們國會改革法案遇到一些挑戰，我們還是不認為官員可以說謊，使用電子煙到底是不是明定的校安通報項目？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:36.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:42.360000+08:00","text":"我講這句話的時候，你們後面的同仁搖頭說不是，但你剛剛跟我說是，到底是還是不是？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:44.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:47.043000+08:00","text":"差了2,100倍的數字，到底是還是不是？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:47.043000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:48.043000+08:00","text":"顯然就是通報有問題嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:48.043000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:49.043000+08:00","text":"十分之一的人，一班10個人裡面有1個人有電子煙，還不算黑數，你只有38件，是不是通報出了問題？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:49.043000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:50.043000+08:00","text":"是不是沒有包入校安通報的機制？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:50.043000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:51.043000+08:00","text":"是還是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳司長林輝","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:48.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:50.806000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，目前通報的部分是針對學生人身安全的部分。對嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:50.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:53.167000+08:00","text":"所以沒有電子煙，部長這塊可不可以允諾？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:53.167000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:56.583000+08:00","text":"要有完整的通報機制，可以嗎？回去……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:56.583000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:10:59.999000+08:00","text":"好的，我想它既然是法令上禁止的……對嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:10:59.999000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:11:03.415000+08:00","text":"要有嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:11:03.415000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:11:06.831000+08:00","text":"謝謝啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:11:06.831000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:11:10.247000+08:00","text":"我們要關注學員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:11:10.247000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:11:13.663000+08:00","text":"再來麻煩數發部。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:11:13.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:11:48.056000+08:00","text":"剛剛你們的報告還有今天專報內容都有提到，您剛剛也很榮幸的、也很用心的說你們會跟Meta、Google大型平臺去建立這些相關的準則規範，結果現在在搜尋引擎上面，你隨便打電子煙販售的網站，一搜一大把啦！","quality":0.315},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:11:49.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:00.444000+08:00","text":"各種品牌、各種口味、各種廣告標語，不曉得副署長自己有沒有上網搜尋看看，這就是你們所謂源頭阻絕的成效嗎？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:00.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:05.888000+08:00","text":"到底這些商家有沒有把國家的法規放在眼裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:05.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:06.328000+08:00","text":"這是怎麼回事？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:06.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:07.329000+08:00","text":"你們有沒有通報機制？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:07.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:10.671000+08:00","text":"你們到底怎麼跟這些業者平臺配合？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副署長慧敏","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:11.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:31.518000+08:00","text":"報告委員，有關我們跟Google協作的部分，其實我們是協助衛福部這邊，然後我們有綠色通道的部分，就是各部會基本上只要有法源的部分，我們這邊都會幫忙，如果沒有法源的部分，我們其實就是幫忙協助……","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:31.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:35.148000+08:00","text":"電子煙有法源嗎？有嘛！後面……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副署長慧敏","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:35.148000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:36.148000+08:00","text":"境外的部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:35.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:40.273000+08:00","text":"我們今天整個活動都是在講有法源，它要被禁止，結果禁止的不好嘛！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳副署長慧敏","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:41.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:43.396000+08:00","text":"境外的部分目前沒有法源。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:43.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:47.540000+08:00","text":"我現在講的……你是說他把網站……我們今天找到一個問題囉！","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:48.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:52.725000+08:00","text":"所以您都有確定這些主機都在國外嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:52.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:55.768000+08:00","text":"我待會回去就稽查喔，那在國內的你們要不要處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:56.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:57.729000+08:00","text":"主機在國內的要不要處理？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:58.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:12:58.750000+08:00","text":"要不要配合？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:12:59.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:13:05.972000+08:00","text":"而且你剛剛的意思是說你們跟衛福部配合嘛，你們只是幫忙衛福部聯繫Meta、Google，是這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:13:05.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:13:07.313000+08:00","text":"這就是你們能做的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛司長信仁","start":"2024-11-07T10:13:07.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:13:14.435000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們還有另外做一件事，就是有關於「.tw」域名的部分，我們也做了處理，經過衛福部查察，總共有一百……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:13:14.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:13:17.476000+08:00","text":"所以是用域名來算境外，還是用主機？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:13:18.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:13:26.455000+08:00","text":"副署長，這個您是專家，您要了解喔，搞清楚喔，難道域名是tw，主機就在臺灣嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"牛司長信仁","start":"2024-11-07T10:13:26.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:13:30.519000+08:00","text":"不見得，但是因為「.tw」域名在臺灣可以由TWNIC來處理。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:13:32.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:13:40.068000+08:00","text":"副署長，你能不能針對現在這個狀況，一週之內提出一個你們現在查緝的方式、跟衛福部配合的方式？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"牛司長信仁","start":"2024-11-07T10:13:41.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:13:42.009000+08:00","text":"報告委員……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副署長慧敏","start":"2024-11-07T10:13:43.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:13:48.747000+08:00","text":"不好意思，我是副署長，這是我們部裡的司長……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:13:48.747000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:13:49.747000+08:00","text":"對不起，我臉盲，抱歉。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳副署長慧敏","start":"2024-11-07T10:13:49.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:13:57.971000+08:00","text":"因為域名的部分是由我們部裡面在處理，而署裡面、我們協助的部分是針對跟Google他們打……","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:13:58.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:13:58.251000+08:00","text":"打聲招呼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副署長慧敏","start":"2024-11-07T10:14:04.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:14:13.587000+08:00","text":"其實有時候打招呼也是不容易的，我們還有幫忙的部分是C2C的那些業者，我們也是會督促他們。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:14:13.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:14:17.051000+08:00","text":"副署長，我理解、也相信你用心良苦，但是我提醒您，Google公司的董事、總經理目前是賴清德總統府轄下的委員會的其中一位委員喔！","quality":0.316},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:14:18.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:14:47.343000+08:00","text":"所以你們各個部會不要再用聯絡這些廠商，打招呼都很困難這種方式來回應，但我了解你很用心，這個回去處理一下，因為這還不是唯一一個年輕人遇到的問題，我都不放這些廣告，放這些廣告是違法，這也不是廣告，這就是年輕人會遇到、在網路上會看到的東西。","quality":0.991},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:14:47.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:15:09.479000+08:00","text":"再來，還有更離譜的事，當然教育部有AI的準則，我們年輕人也很會用AI，但是現在在這些AI平臺上，你只要問一個問題，AI幫你整理出所有電子煙的網站，這樣子的一個狀況，請教一下教育部、衛福部、數發部跟法務部的官員，到底哪一個部會來主責？","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:15:09.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:15:10.340000+08:00","text":"AI幫他推薦電子煙，是哪一個部會主責？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:15:10.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:15:11.981000+08:00","text":"我本來要說謝謝主席，時間暫停，但已經停了，對不起，再給我一點時間，教育部長站出來了。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:15:11.981000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:15:30.448000+08:00","text":"我們來統籌。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:15:30.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:16:01.416000+08:00","text":"謝謝教育部長，這個真的很重要，一定要讓學生了解到在AI上面有可能會得到一些違法的資料，不是AI給他導引的途徑就是合法的，這個一定要好好的來處理，希望可以統籌做一個處理，所以今天教育部長已經站出來了，教育部、衛福部、法務部、數發部、警政署都在，各部會代表是不是可以承諾，協同教育部去建立一個緊密的校園菸害防制機制？","quality":0.303},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:16:01.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:16:08+08:00","text":"包含戒治及後續的通路，剛剛萬委員其實有提到，這個現在是誰主責？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:16:08.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:16:09.040000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，菸害防制目前當然是衛福部，但我想包含剛才委員所關心的電子煙，因為有毒品一定要通報，所以我們會把這個納入那個SOP的通報……","quality":0.426},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:16:09.040000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:16:15.890000+08:00","text":"後續的研議情形及跨部會的機制，希望一個月內可以書面回復我們，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:16:15.890000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:16:22.740000+08:00","text":"我還有一個緊急事態要提醒教育部長還有數發部長，其他單位同仁可以回去。","quality":0.031},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-07T10:16:22.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:16:23.201000+08:00","text":"葛委員，再30秒，好不好？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:16:48.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:17:25.156000+08:00","text":"好，我們現在看到一個很嚴重的問題，數發部通查網有個案外案出現了，我們這次發現數發部通查網不小心變成詐騙集團的廣告平臺，變成關鍵字的累積，我們現在發現各級大專院校，包含私立跟國立，都變成了詐騙集團連結的跳板，你隨便一搜，有一大堆的學校，我不想念出來，待會兒你們自己回去搜尋，我們連結都會附上，這些東西點下去，直接跳過去，會變成什麼？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:17:25.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:17:36.781000+08:00","text":"變成詐騙集團的……我不想念出來，鈔X部署社團，直接都是從校園裡面連過去，全部的東西都是！","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:17:37.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:18:02.012000+08:00","text":"配息、高配息，連高雄市教育局都進去了，包括國立大學，到今天連臺灣大學都進去了，這是數發部通查網的案外案，部長，我們現在這種寄生上流2.0、詐騙集團的連結寄生到……不只是數發部的連結，連大專院校、臺灣大學都中招，直接變成什麼？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:18:03.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:18:14.661000+08:00","text":"直接變成詐騙集團的詐騙網址，股海明燈，教育部長跟數發部是不是要一起聯手來處理一下這個問題，兩週內處理成果可不可以提供出來？","quality":0.807},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2024-11-07T10:18:14.661000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:18:15.661000+08:00","text":"會後我會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-07T10:18:14.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:18:21.465000+08:00","text":"這個部分請教育部、數發部會後跟葛委員再詳細的報告跟說明，好不好？","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2024-11-07T10:18:21.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:18:23.807000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，緊急事態，大家一起來幫忙，謝謝！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-07T10:18:24.307000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:18:26.307000+08:00","text":"謝謝葛如鈞委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-07T10:18:26.607000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:18:31.749857+08:00","text":"等一下陳培瑜委員質詢完畢以後，休息5分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-07T10:18:32.049857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:18:34.907000+08:00","text":"現在請張雅琳委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":352,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（10時3分）謝謝主席。有請教育部鄭部長。"],["主席：有請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["葛委員如鈞：部長好。今天真的很感謝我們的召委安排這樣的議題，我想所有官員也應該都是把我們的學員、學童都當成我們自己的孩子在關照，但是近期真的有很多事件需要我們關心。首先，本席昨天接獲家長陳情，有一名涉犯未成年兒少性猥褻案的前科人士違法入境來臺，移民署接獲AIT通知緊急發函，據網傳的公文，當然密件公文是不能外傳的，但是網路就開始傳出去了，10月24號的時候教育部好像有發函要請各級學校、補習班清查，是不是曾經聘任或運用該名人士？這個字還用得很特別──「聘任」或「運用」。請教一下部長，目前全國各級學校、補習班是不是已經清查完畢？有沒有縣市教育局清查的結果？還有學校、補習班的回報？有沒有這個性猥褻前科的外籍人士被聘用的紀錄？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們確實有發這個通知，要提醒我們所有學校跟補習班。"],["葛委員如鈞：提醒很棒，我說有沒有完成清查？"],["梁司長學政：報告委員，因為外籍人士要聘用進來的話，必須要提供類似良民證這樣的申請。"],["葛委員如鈞：對啊！我們知道啊！"],["梁司長學政：所以系統在申請的時候就……"],["葛委員如鈞：為什麼需要發這個東西呢？你們應該知道沒有啊！你為什麼還要發？"],["梁司長學政：是，但是我們還是會去提醒，所以說是「通知」，提醒各位……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以就不用清查嗎？現在通知完了，清查結果回來了沒？因為你們也覺得可能有漏洞、有黑數嘛！"],["梁司長學政：報告委員，因為是通知，而在系統上、在申請的時候就會擋掉，有些是因為部分縣市政府他們比較擔心，自己會進行清查。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以到底我們能不能確保他沒有被運用、沒有被聘任？教育部能不能在此確保？"],["梁司長學政：如果從我們……"],["葛委員如鈞：不行嘛！"],["梁司長學政：從機制上應該是會擋掉，因為不應該違法聘任。"],["葛委員如鈞：那能不能確保嘛？對嘛！你不能嘛！什麼時候會完成清查？有沒有訂一個deadline？"],["梁司長學政：如果委員覺得我們需要，我們也可以請各縣市政府來清查，但只是說會不會每一次有一位進來，我們就每次都要啟動各縣市清查。"],["葛委員如鈞：不是，現在這一位因為有密件的問題，家長非常憂心，是不是三日內可以協助？我覺得不是把這個責任就丟到地方，教育部是不是已經清查過內部沒有這個聘用紀錄了？你們自己內部清查過了嗎？清查完了嗎？"],["梁司長學政：我們系統上面是沒有。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒有這個人？"],["梁司長學政：對。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以你們自己已經完成自己的清查？是各縣市政府？"],["梁司長學政：聘任因為是在縣市政府聘任，所以如果有需要，必須要請縣市政府來協助。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，還是希望你們三日內要確認他是不是有受僱於任何學校或補習班，我覺得從你們內部的資料去確認，當然外部的有交出資料的，你們就進行統整好不好？三日內，部長可不可以允諾？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員關心，我想這是沒有問題，因為我們從系統、從地方大家合作，再進一步的確認。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，你提到系統兩個字，我覺得這次要稍微檢討一下，就是說未來這樣的事件有沒有一個更快速的清查機制？這個我們未來再來討論。","接下來我們討論今天電子煙的這個議題，部長，我想校園電子煙氾濫的議題，很多一線教師、家長都非常擔心，菸害防制法明令禁止電子煙已經一年多了，但是電子煙顯然沒有絕跡，甚至昨天還有媒體報導，一名未成年高中生在IG上面貼了一張圖片，然後說你要什麼牌子、口味的文字，就被認定有販售意圖，被開罰20萬，當然如果他確定有這樣的意圖、他甚至有這樣的行為，當然不應該，要開罰！但是也許會不會有一些年輕人搞不清楚這個玩笑的界限等等，我想確認一下教育部有沒有掌握20歲以下因為不理解還是亂搞而誤觸了法網？有沒有相關的人員、數額、金額被罰款多少？有沒有這樣的一個掌握？他未成年，搞不清楚狀況。"],["鄭部長英耀：我同意委員剛才所提的，確實有一些青少年與同儕開玩笑……"],["葛委員如鈞：對嘛！有。那有沒有掌握20歲以下觸法人數？"],["鄭部長英耀：這個部分，目前我們確實是沒有這個資料。"],["葛委員如鈞：掌握一下，一週內提出好不好？因為我覺得學生在成長當中，教育部的責任就是要協助他們成長，所以我們應該要掌握他們的狀況，可以嗎？一週內提出，20歲以下，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：好。"],["葛委員如鈞：有需要跨部會配合的再配合一下。另外我想剛剛非常多委員都提到了，這個件數真的是遠低於我們所了解的電子煙的現況，不然我們就不用有今天的專報，但是教育部長，你真的了解現在這個情況的嚴重程度嗎？高中職以下學生，你知道多少人裡面就有一個人說自己有吸食電子煙？你知道這個比例嗎？我們都知道人數，什麼8萬人、10萬人，但你知道比例是多少嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，校園內確實我們學生是比較少的，但是……"],["葛委員如鈞：110年就是8.8%了，今年很可能就已經破10%了，照這樣計算起來，10個人很可能就有1個人，如果我數字有錯，可以更正好不好？因為後面有人歪了一下頭。但是大家要掌握這件事，不要看8萬、10萬，你可能不理解這件事情的嚴重性，為什麼會發生這個？你說外面有8%、10%，8萬、10萬，只有38件，這個當然我還是要非常感謝第一線教育人員有警覺心，而不是零件，他們還是找到了一些，但是這很顯然是通報機制的問題。我想請教一下部長，今天可不可以允諾，其實使用電子煙並不是明定的校安通報項目，這個通報稽查的整個過程也非常模糊不清楚，我想請問一下部長，今天可不可以當場允諾──對高中以下校園吸菸的案件，包含使用電子煙的案件，無論是透過現有的校安機制或其他方式，可不可以明定一個明確的處理機制、通報流程SOP？畢竟教育現場的通報是不是能夠啟動後續轉銜機制，通報是最重要的關鍵，這個可不可以允諾？不然我們前線的人員、家長搞不清楚啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，在許多校園的一些菸害或者相關的一些暴力，我們確實是有一個SOP的……"],["葛委員如鈞：那這個有沒有？我們現在是電子煙專報。"],["鄭部長英耀：電子煙這個部分，我想我們都是在菸害防制裡面的一個……"],["葛委員如鈞：有沒有通報、稽查的流程？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們本來就有……"],["葛委員如鈞：那是不是校安通報的項目？"],["鄭部長英耀：就是校安，因為都是屬於菸害防制裡面的一個項目……"],["葛委員如鈞：我在這裡問，雖然我們國會改革法案遇到一些挑戰，我們還是不認為官員可以說謊，使用電子煙到底是不是明定的校安通報項目？我講這句話的時候，你們後面的同仁搖頭說不是，但你剛剛跟我說是，到底是還是不是？差了2,100倍的數字，到底是還是不是？顯然就是通報有問題嘛！十分之一的人，一班10個人裡面有1個人有電子煙，還不算黑數，你只有38件，是不是通報出了問題？是不是沒有包入校安通報的機制？是還是不是？"],["吳司長林輝：跟委員報告，目前通報的部分是針對學生人身安全的部分。"],["葛委員如鈞：對嘛！所以沒有電子煙，部長這塊可不可以允諾？要有完整的通報機制，可以嗎？回去……"],["鄭部長英耀：好的，我想它既然是法令上禁止的……"],["葛委員如鈞：對嘛！要有嘛！謝謝啦！我們要關注學員。","再來麻煩數發部。剛剛你們的報告還有今天專報內容都有提到，您剛剛也很榮幸的、也很用心的說你們會跟Meta、Google大型平臺去建立這些相關的準則規範，結果現在在搜尋引擎上面，你隨便打電子煙販售的網站，一搜一大把啦！各種品牌、各種口味、各種廣告標語，不曉得副署長自己有沒有上網搜尋看看，這就是你們所謂源頭阻絕的成效嗎？到底這些商家有沒有把國家的法規放在眼裡？這是怎麼回事？你們有沒有通報機制？你們到底怎麼跟這些業者平臺配合？"],["陳副署長慧敏：報告委員，有關我們跟Google協作的部分，其實我們是協助衛福部這邊，然後我們有綠色通道的部分，就是各部會基本上只要有法源的部分，我們這邊都會幫忙，如果沒有法源的部分，我們其實就是幫忙協助……"],["葛委員如鈞：電子煙有法源嗎？有嘛！後面……"],["陳副署長慧敏：境外的部分……"],["葛委員如鈞：我們今天整個活動都是在講有法源，它要被禁止，結果禁止的不好嘛！"],["陳副署長慧敏：境外的部分目前沒有法源。"],["葛委員如鈞：我現在講的……你是說他把網站……我們今天找到一個問題囉！所以您都有確定這些主機都在國外嗎？我待會回去就稽查喔，那在國內的你們要不要處理？主機在國內的要不要處理？要不要配合？而且你剛剛的意思是說你們跟衛福部配合嘛，你們只是幫忙衛福部聯繫Meta、Google，是這樣嗎？這就是你們能做的嗎？"],["牛司長信仁：報告委員，我們還有另外做一件事，就是有關於「.tw」域名的部分，我們也做了處理，經過衛福部查察，總共有一百……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以是用域名來算境外，還是用主機？副署長，這個您是專家，您要了解喔，搞清楚喔，難道域名是tw，主機就在臺灣嗎？"],["牛司長信仁：不見得，但是因為「.tw」域名在臺灣可以由TWNIC來處理。"],["葛委員如鈞：副署長，你能不能針對現在這個狀況，一週之內提出一個你們現在查緝的方式、跟衛福部配合的方式？"],["牛司長信仁：報告委員……"],["陳副署長慧敏：不好意思，我是副署長，這是我們部裡的司長……"],["葛委員如鈞：對不起，我臉盲，抱歉。"],["陳副署長慧敏：因為域名的部分是由我們部裡面在處理，而署裡面、我們協助的部分是針對跟Google他們打……"],["葛委員如鈞：打聲招呼？"],["陳副署長慧敏：其實有時候打招呼也是不容易的，我們還有幫忙的部分是C2C的那些業者，我們也是會督促他們。"],["葛委員如鈞：副署長，我理解、也相信你用心良苦，但是我提醒您，Google公司的董事、總經理目前是賴清德總統府轄下的委員會的其中一位委員喔！所以你們各個部會不要再用聯絡這些廠商，打招呼都很困難這種方式來回應，但我了解你很用心，這個回去處理一下，因為這還不是唯一一個年輕人遇到的問題，我都不放這些廣告，放這些廣告是違法，這也不是廣告，這就是年輕人會遇到、在網路上會看到的東西。","再來，還有更離譜的事，當然教育部有AI的準則，我們年輕人也很會用AI，但是現在在這些AI平臺上，你只要問一個問題，AI幫你整理出所有電子煙的網站，這樣子的一個狀況，請教一下教育部、衛福部、數發部跟法務部的官員，到底哪一個部會來主責？AI幫他推薦電子煙，是哪一個部會主責？","我本來要說謝謝主席，時間暫停，但已經停了，對不起，再給我一點時間，教育部長站出來了。"],["鄭部長英耀：我們來統籌。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝教育部長，這個真的很重要，一定要讓學生了解到在AI上面有可能會得到一些違法的資料，不是AI給他導引的途徑就是合法的，這個一定要好好的來處理，希望可以統籌做一個處理，所以今天教育部長已經站出來了，教育部、衛福部、法務部、數發部、警政署都在，各部會代表是不是可以承諾，協同教育部去建立一個緊密的校園菸害防制機制？包含戒治及後續的通路，剛剛萬委員其實有提到，這個現在是誰主責？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，菸害防制目前當然是衛福部，但我想包含剛才委員所關心的電子煙，因為有毒品一定要通報，所以我們會把這個納入那個SOP的通報……"],["葛委員如鈞：後續的研議情形及跨部會的機制，希望一個月內可以書面回復我們，好不好？我還有一個緊急事態要提醒教育部長還有數發部長，其他單位同仁可以回去。"],["主席：葛委員，再30秒，好不好？"],["葛委員如鈞：好，我們現在看到一個很嚴重的問題，數發部通查網有個案外案出現了，我們這次發現數發部通查網不小心變成詐騙集團的廣告平臺，變成關鍵字的累積，我們現在發現各級大專院校，包含私立跟國立，都變成了詐騙集團連結的跳板，你隨便一搜，有一大堆的學校，我不想念出來，待會兒你們自己回去搜尋，我們連結都會附上，這些東西點下去，直接跳過去，會變成什麼？變成詐騙集團的……我不想念出來，鈔X部署社團，直接都是從校園裡面連過去，全部的東西都是！配息、高配息，連高雄市教育局都進去了，包括國立大學，到今天連臺灣大學都進去了，這是數發部通查網的案外案，部長，我們現在這種寄生上流2.0、詐騙集團的連結寄生到……不只是數發部的連結，連大專院校、臺灣大學都中招，直接變成什麼？直接變成詐騙集團的詐騙網址，股海明燈，教育部長跟數發部是不是要一起聯手來處理一下這個問題，兩週內處理成果可不可以提供出來？"],["鄭部長英耀：會後我會……"],["主席：這個部分請教育部、數發部會後跟葛委員再詳細的報告跟說明，好不好？"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝主席，緊急事態，大家一起來幫忙，謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝葛如鈞委員。等一下陳培瑜委員質詢完畢以後，休息5分鐘。","現在請張雅琳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":74,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-7","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","張雅琳","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","吳沛憶","林倩綺","郭昱晴","羅智強","李坤城","沈伯洋","黃健豪","楊瓊瓔","麥玉珍","羅廷瑋","林月琴","范雲","翁曉玲","鍾佳濱","葉元之","莊瑞雄","林宜瑾","林倩綺","吳春城"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1139601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部、法務部、數位發展部、內政部警政署、財政部關務署列席\n就「電子煙入侵校園危害青少年防制檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139601_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}