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那個委員你可以再回到The Hill那個報紙你可以看到他已經把那個拿掉了他已經把它拿掉了下架了是吧你說把他拿掉了是吧不是我 我沒有辦法拿掉是他把那個拿掉就是說"},{"start":126.769,"end":140.694,"text":"他代表他承認他聽錯了我在講那是一個禮拜就是在11月2號前一個在10月底的時候我們外交部國傳司通常會請各國記者大概有20個然後我們說我們來閒聊一下"},{"start":142.065,"end":169.857,"text":"那個接受訪問跟閒聊是兩個不一樣的事情接受訪問我用字當然會很精準所以不是接受訪問是聊天有十幾個國家的記者在嗎記者對閒聊而且有那個就是有錄音記錄我們在撥給阿丁他自己承認他聽錯了所以你可以看到那些不存在那至於委員講的發案格率他是根據一個錯誤的報導做出一個這樣的回應所以我就不曉得怎麼去說因為這一句話是不存在的嘛"},{"start":170.805,"end":180.051,"text":"市長所以你有沒有講你對這個美國這個選舉是非常非常擔心這個事業有沒有講有吧是有講不是正式嗎不是我是對就是說"},{"start":181.027,"end":203.275,"text":"我是對於那個uncertainty very very worried那這個而且我講的是怎麼樣我剛才講提到說我是講歐洲人是因為我回答我當然知道他要問我是台灣的概念對不對那我就跟他講你可以把原文再找回來我說我剛從歐洲回來所以我可以跟那個記者說明說其實歐洲國家是比我們更加擔心的所以我們有擔心"},{"start":203.795,"end":231.442,"text":"歐洲比我們更擔心那我相信如果說那個意思在我想每一個國家尤其是美國是我們最重要的盟邦我們當然會對於他們的一個選舉的發展我們會關心應該是關心不是憂心我是基於我的國家利益我大概要回答出我們非常關心這樣的一個選舉結果所以是關心不是憂心第二個更重要要問你那句話你有講說"},{"start":232.383,"end":235.434,"text":"要是川普放棄台灣嗎?應該他不至於放棄台灣吧?"},{"start":236.547,"end":263.665,"text":"那時候應該是在聊天談到某些狀況對不對放棄台灣是記者提的然後我把他句子再repeat一次對 因為我基本上認為我剛才其實前面我有被接受剛才是回答諮詢齁我基本上認為一個民主自由擁有高科技台灣是被認為世界上第七大高科技國這樣的國家中華民國穩定存在是符合美國的利益所以我他的提問我不認為會成立的"},{"start":264.949,"end":266.551,"text":"川普動算對台灣的經濟影響至少有這幾個層面"},{"start":282.416,"end":310.436,"text":"這個剛剛有在談了他說進口的商品關稅要提高18%以上大部分是10%到20%是他還要施壓貿易夥伴貨幣要升值美元是要貶值的另外施壓貿易夥伴要提高環保跟勞工的待遇我們的臺美21世紀貿易倡議就是三大面向農業、環保跟勞工待遇這個影響也會很大事實上那影響最大的會是什麼這是我現在要跟你談的"},{"start":312.519,"end":333.292,"text":"調查對美貿易順差擴大的國家我另外講一個重要的事情我們去年對美國出口762億美元美國現在是我們最大的前三季今年的前三季美國也是我們單一最大的出口國了我們賺人家的錢去年就賺了美國355億美元然後他現在"},{"start":338.786,"end":365.957,"text":"他的證件裡面很重要就是要去追查這個嘛然後追查以後他的連帶就是要調高關稅嘛那你怎麼因應我們對委員報告在之前我們想我們過去到美國去輸出到美國去大概是高科技產品比較多啦那這個另一個就是因為台積電到美國去投資所以那個相對的會變成金額會比較高"},{"start":367.096,"end":372.622,"text":"那麼在未來我想臺積電會持續在美國再擴大他的投資這個也是一個趨勢"},{"start":374.554,"end":396.667,"text":"那我們要讓美國的這一些能夠了解這個是過去我們出超到美國是幫助美國建立他的這個產業基礎所以並不是說我賺他很多錢而是去幫助美國建立他的產業基礎所以我想這個要多溝通啦現在最明顯的影響是這樣"},{"start":399.38,"end":408.546,"text":"他對大陸要、中國大陸要60%嘛對不對對我們應該是10到20嘛對不對然後事實上大家沒有注意到更嚴重的更重要的是什麼美國他就沒有關稅問題他是0嘛"},{"start":409.986,"end":434.501,"text":"所以剛講我們的台商如果是在大陸的他一定從60%那邊他可能就往美國跑或者是回來這是一個點嘛 對不對那第二個對我們來講對我們台灣的台商來講一方面是在中國大陸的一方面如果在台灣的關稅要提高那這個我們要趕快注意好不好所以你剛有答應你一個月一個月內你把哪些產業會受到影響更重要的更重要的要怎麼幫他們一個月內要提出來好不好因為現在民眾最關心的老講是台積電"},{"start":436.94,"end":453.234,"text":"台積...因為他已經講說你搶了他的...我們搶了他的台積...那個晶片的生意嘛你也應該很清楚嘛這...這...不是我們搶他的...我們是替他...替美國人心善的啦這會賺錢啦對啦對啦 但是他...事實上川普的美國優先裡面可能是...他就是希望美國有製造業"},{"start":454.975,"end":471.445,"text":"他們能夠工廠 有工廠能夠重新再開工 讓他們的人民有工作嘛所以這個老實講我們是要小心啦他所謂的提高關稅的最終目的應該是車啦美國人有工作機會所以我們第一個人才會不會流過去應該是車啦 車的問題會比較大 電動車啦因為這部分中國可以輸出的嘛所以美國應該是都汽車的王國啊"},{"start":478.689,"end":479.771,"text":"我昨天問你臺電的這個員工非常辛苦"},{"start":496.343,"end":524.936,"text":"他們大抬風天然後去搶修為了我們人民去搶修這個停電那昨天我特別要求特別要求說有兩個事情你們後來做的回覆我們今天把它定下來好不好第一個昨天有提到危險津貼的事情我今天很明確跟葛珀丁說你知道嗎他們冒著生命危險冒著生命危險他們的危險津貼一個小時只有105塊好不好你回去研究把它提高好不好這是第一個第二個有超時工作的問題"},{"start":526.058,"end":543.297,"text":"有超時工作的問題有員工跟我講有些超時工作不是只有兩天從7-11早上7點到晚上11點有些人連續工作四天這太危險了好不好所以這部分超時工作問題也同時來處理好不好好主席已經站起來了我不要再講話了謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":338,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（10時12分）請郭部長及外交部吳次長。"],["主席：請經濟部郭部長、外交部吳次長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["張委員啓楷：早。部長，你先休息一下，我先請教吳次長。"],["吳次長志中：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：川普當選，當然我們都要先恭喜，希望臺美關係也是越來越好。你講話一向也是很精準，不過最近有引起一個風暴，我們今天把它講清楚，好不好？我們今天來講清楚。你後來有解釋，好像不是接受媒體訪問，可是當初媒體這樣講，就是你接受美國國會山報訪問的時候提到，老實講，引起爭議是兩個，你說對美國選舉，一方面在觀察，一方面非常的擔心（very,very worried），對不對？這個引起討論，這是一個點。我今天要跟你進一步討論更重要的，這個報導裡面講到，吳志中說要是川普放棄臺灣，那你很納悶。你看一下，上面有字幕。那你很納悶，他還能怎樣讓美國再次偉大。這就是川普常常在說的話。因為他將在亞太失去友邦對美國的支持跟威信。我們一個一個來。這次對你提出質疑的是共和黨前亞太主席、國際政治觀察家方恩格，方恩格你應該熟，對不對？他很有代表性。"],["吳次長志中：我不認識他。"],["張委員啓楷：不熟？"],["吳次長志中：對。"],["張委員啓楷：他很有代表性，他說你這個談話非常失禮、不恰當，你怎麼解釋？"],["吳次長志中：委員可以再回到The Hill那個報紙，你可以看到他已經把那個拿掉了……"],["張委員啓楷：有下架了，是不是？你說把它拿掉了，是不是？"],["吳次長志中：不是我，我沒有辦法拿掉，是他把那個拿掉，就代表他承認他聽錯了。我再講一次，那是一個禮拜前，就是在11月2號。前一次在10月底，外交部國傳司通常會請各國記者大概有20個，然後我們說來閒聊一下，接受訪問跟閒聊是兩件不一樣的事情。接受訪問，我的用字當然會很精準……"],["張委員啓楷：所以不是接受訪問，是聊天？有十幾個國家的記者在嘛！"],["吳次長志中：對，閒聊而且有錄音紀錄，我們再播給他聽，他自己承認他聽錯了，這是第一件事，所以你可以看到那些不存在了。至於委員講的方恩格律師，他是根據一個錯誤的報導，做出這樣的回應，所以我就不曉得要怎麼去說。因為這一句話是不存在的。"],["張委員啓楷：次長，所以你有沒有講，你對美國選舉是「非常、非常擔心」這個字眼？有沒有講？有吧？是有講，但不是正式嘛！"],["吳次長志中：不是。我是對於uncertainty very very worrried，而且我講的是怎麼樣？我當然知道他要問的我是臺灣的概念，我就跟他講。我們可以把原文再找出來。我說我剛從歐洲回來，所以我可以跟那個記者說明，其實歐洲國家是比我們更加擔心的。"],["張委員啓楷：所以我們有擔心，歐洲比我們更擔心，是不是這樣？"],["吳次長志中：我想每一個國家，尤其美國是我們最重要的盟邦，我們當然對於他們選舉的發展，總會關心，對不對？"],["張委員啓楷：我們會關心，應該是關心，不是憂心。"],["吳次長志中：我是基於國家利益，我當然要回答我們非常關心這樣的選舉結果。"],["張委員啓楷：所以是關心，不是憂心，對不對？"],["吳次長志中：是，謝謝委員。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個更重要，要問你那句話，你有說要是川普放棄臺灣，他應該不至於放棄臺灣吧？那時候應該是在聊天，談到某些狀況，對不對？他問你……"],["吳次長志中：放棄臺灣是記者提的，我把他的句子再repeat一次。我剛才也有回答質詢，基本上，我認為一個民主自由、擁有高科技的國家，臺灣被認為是世界上第七大高科技國，這樣的國家──中華民國穩定存在符合美國的利益，所以我不認為他的提問會成立。"],["張委員啓楷：所以第一個是關心，不是憂心。"],["吳次長志中：是，謝謝委員。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個，你不認為川普會放棄臺灣，我們下兩個定論，好不好？"],["吳次長志中：對。"],["張委員啓楷：請部長來。"],["吳次長志中：謝謝委員。"],["張委員啓楷：我們來談產業的發展，川普當選對臺灣經濟的影響，至少有這幾個層面，這個剛剛有在談了。他說進口的商品關稅要提高10%以上，大部分是10%到20%，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員啓楷：他還要施壓貿易夥伴貨幣升值，美元是要貶值的。另外，施壓貿易夥伴要提高環保跟勞工的待遇，臺美21世紀貿易倡議就是三大面向，農業、環保跟勞工待遇，這個影響也會很大。事實上，影響最大的會是什麼？這是我現在要跟你談的，調查對美貿易順差擴大的國家。部長，我跟你說一件重要的事情，我們去年對美國出口762億美元，今年的前3季，美國已經是我們最大單一出口國了。我們賺人家的錢，去年就賺了美國355億美元，現在他的政見裡面很重要的就是要去追查這個，追查以後連帶就是要調高關稅，你怎麼因應？"],["郭部長智輝：我們過去輸出到美國的大概是高科技產品比較多，另一個就是因為台積電到美國去投資，所以相對的變成金額會比較高，那麼在未來台積電會持續在美國再擴大他的投資，這也是一個趨勢。我們要讓美國能夠了解這一些，過去我們出超到美國是幫助美國建立產業基礎，並不是我賺他很多錢，而是去幫助美國建立產業基礎，所以我想這個要多溝通。"],["張委員啓楷：多溝通。"],["郭部長智輝：多溝通。"],["張委員啓楷：現在最明顯的影響是，他對中國大陸要60%，對不對？對我們應該是10%到20%，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員啓楷：事實上，大家沒有注意到更嚴重的，更重要的是什麼？美國沒有關稅問題，他是零，所以剛剛講臺商如果是在大陸的，他一定從60%那邊，可能就往美國跑或者回來，這是一個點，對不對?"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個，對我們來講、對臺灣的臺商來講，一方面是在中國大陸的，另一方面如果在臺灣的，關稅要提高，這個我們要趕快注意，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員啓楷：所以你剛剛有答應一個月內整理出哪些產業會受到影響，更重要的是要怎麼幫他們。一個月內要提出來，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員啓楷：因為現在民眾最關心的，老實講是台積電，他已經說我們台積電搶了他的晶片生意嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：你也應該很清楚，這不是我們搶他的，我們是替美國人生產的。"],["張委員啓楷：一起賺錢。"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["張委員啓楷：事實上，在川普的美國優先裡面……"],["郭部長智輝：我們要去……"],["張委員啓楷：他就希望美國有製造業，他們的工廠能夠重新再開工，讓他們的人民有工作嘛，所以老實講我們是要小心啦，他所有提高關稅的最終目的是什麼……"],["郭部長智輝：最重要的應該是車啦！"],["張委員啓楷：美國人有工作機會，所以第一個，我們的人才會不會流過去？"],["郭部長智輝：應該是車啦，車的問題會比較大，電動車啦，那都是中國在輸出的嘛！美國以前是汽車王國啊，現在他們想要拉回來，所以他們的稅金會加很多。"],["張委員啓楷：所以你說大陸那邊的影響比較大啦，我們雖然影響比較少但也還是要注意啦。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員啓楷：OK，特別是人才，半導體的人才不要被搶走，這個要注意。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：我昨天問你，台電的員工非常辛苦，颱風天剛過嘛，他們在大颱風天要去搶修，為了我們人民去搶修停電，昨天我特別要求兩個事情，你們後來做了回復，我們今天把它定下來，好不好？第一個，昨天有提到危險津貼的事情，我今天很明確跟部長說，你知道嗎，他們冒著生命危險，但他們的危險津貼一個小時只有105塊，請你回去研究把它提高，好不好？這是第一個。"],["郭部長智輝：好。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個，台電有超時工作的問題，有員工跟我講，有些超時工作不是只有2天喔，就像7-11，從早上7點到晚上11點，有些人是連續工作4天，這太危險了，好不好？所以這部分的超時工作問題也同時來處理，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：好。"],["張委員啓楷：主席已經站起來，我不要再講話了。謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員，部長請回座。","待會鄭正鈐委員質詢之後，我們會休息。下一位質詢請鄭正鈐委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":424,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-11","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","陳超明","賴瑞隆","林楚茵","陳培瑜","黃仁","馬文君","賴士葆","麥玉珍","張嘉郡","林德福","陳冠廷","蔡易餘","賴惠員","林倩綺","黃建賓"],"page_start":365,"meetingDate":["2024-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1139501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、農業部部長、行政院經貿談判辦公室首長、外交部\n首長、大陸委員會首長就「我國當前經貿情勢分析及如何有效拓展國際經貿空間戰略規劃之相關\n政策作為，暨申請加入 CPTPP 進度說明、成員國立場分析與跨部會推動機制」進行報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1139501_00019"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}