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謝謝委員的推訊"},{"start":90.008,"end":112.365,"text":"就印太經濟架構我們確實有看到川普總統在競選的時候有提到印太經濟架構可能不是他當初所設想的一個政策方向那所以如果要依據過去川普總統在第一任的這個經驗他上任之後因為他就對於TPP他確實他就退出了TPP的這樣子的一個"},{"start":113.272,"end":136.672,"text":"做法的話當然可能對於印太經濟架構我們不排除或許他會再評估那這個是我們所看到的但是我也要補充的就是實際上印太框架就是Quad這個活動是在川普第一任當總統的時候把它提升到總統層級所以也代表川普總統他是一樣對於印太的這個合作"},{"start":137.032,"end":146.882,"text":"是相當重視的所以我相信他對於印太區域的推動不論透過哪一個方面的面向的強化所以他你認為他不會廢除這個嗎他當初說要廢除對就是說印太經濟架構本身的內容或許他會再做進一步的檢討那WTO呢他會不會廢除"},{"start":157.586,"end":167.935,"text":"就WTO的部分我必須要講的實際上川普總統在第一任的時候也是批評WTO非常多但是WTO他實際上涉及到的現在的會員已經有166個會員所以對美國來說如果他要去"},{"start":172.959,"end":191.826,"text":"所謂的對川普總統的意思他要廢除應該他只是在指的是美國是不是要評估退出WTO但是說實在的如果美國退出WTO的話反而是讓其他剩下的其他國家對美國本身是不用遵守WTO承諾未必對美國是最好的一個方向"},{"start":192.606,"end":207.252,"text":"所以如果川普他不支持WTO那對於藉由WTO所形成的這個ITA的相關的這樣子的協定會不會有影響?經濟部長這就是你的議題了對不對?ITA對啊會不會有影響?我們請我想是這樣子就是說其實這個全球自由貿易啊"},{"start":221.28,"end":237.69,"text":"以此這個是張忠謀董事長在前幾天所講的之前也已經倡議這樣事實上我們看到當這個川普上來以後因為他的政策就是讓美國更偉大所以過去的一些思維應該確實是會改變但是國際的狀況我想未來會趨於區域經濟化"},{"start":246.489,"end":266.67,"text":"所以區域經濟化我們可以看到像過去幾個地方我們可以明顯的看到歐盟可以看到東南亞國協這些都是屬於區域經濟的部分我個人認為就我所學的我認為未來會走向區域經濟更能夠代替這個所謂的全球自由貿易化"},{"start":267.13,"end":293.667,"text":"那目前我們出口到美國的現在佔的比重是22%那有很多的部分是在高科技的部分那這個部分未來在川普總統上任之後會不會對於相關的關稅會有所改變這個關稅應該是都會改變但是我們的對策就我剛才有報告過就是說我們的對策其實是利用"},{"start":294.727,"end":303.494,"text":"境外、關內這樣子的一個措施我把臺灣的一部分的供應鏈帶到美國去落地生產"},{"start":304.468,"end":330.524,"text":"那因為供應鏈集中落地生產它有個優勢就是說它在這個logistics上面的cost完全降低那彼此供應鏈之間的這個資源可以快速所以對我們在美國的這個廠商有非常重大的這個優勢所以是不是未來台灣的半導體的供應鏈必須變成你整條都要帶到美國去生產"},{"start":331.084,"end":338.839,"text":"是不是?也不是說只有必須到美國因為市場在哪裡我們的供應鏈就應該到哪裡去美國、去歐洲"},{"start":341.395,"end":365.184,"text":"因為這個全球已經沒有辦法因為這個已經打破那個因為這個區域的經濟共盟這個一定會形成的那因為這個地緣政治的關係嘛那包括這個極端氣候的影響所以這個市場已經完全改變所以張忠謀董事長非常的厲害他有先見之明他可以推論到說這個自由貿易已經死了"},{"start":366.024,"end":394.542,"text":"所以我個人是遵從這樣的所以臺積電必須要出走這個是市場在哪裡我們就是接近市場所以這樣的一個做法我個人認為是正確的所以如果臺積電出走那剛才也有委員問到的就是兩奈米的會不會移到美國去我們有國內有一些科技的管制兩奈米要去的時候最起碼我們1.4奈米要在國內已經是落地生產"},{"start":395.799,"end":422.828,"text":"那我們現在1.4奈米有沒有辦法現在還在那個所以沒辦法2奈米我們都還沒生產啊所以2奈米是沒有辦法去不是現在不是現在那Eventually一定會去嘛當然啦那要等到1.4奈米出來的時候才會去這個是我們國家的規定不會去那未來會我要再問一下那個副總代表"},{"start":428.083,"end":445.19,"text":"我想要請問喔如果就是說川普上來了他重視的是就是雙邊的這個貿易的這個談判嘛是不是那有沒有可能臺美的FTA有沒有辦法啟動我們會看到確實川普政府比較喜歡走雙邊的路線那目前我們臺灣跟美國之間已經有啟動很多的雙邊的其實這幾年來都已經建立"},{"start":457.27,"end":476.165,"text":"所以包括我們的臺美的21世紀倡議EPPD到TTIC都是我們運作良好的雙邊管道那我們會在這個既有的基礎之下希望尋求可以跟川普新政府有更多的往來互動的空間當然我們也不排除有機會如果"},{"start":477.352,"end":493.975,"text":"如果我們要重啓FTA的時候他會不會要求台積電的2奈米必須要到美國去生產他可以藉由這個框架是不是在FTA的這個談判的時候會不會有這樣的可能性"},{"start":495.209,"end":518.826,"text":"通常如果談FTA的話只會談到關稅、投資保護類這樣的一個概念那所以對於這些產業要如何去移動然後或者要分散他們的布局這個不一定會是在既有的FTA架構之下去談論的意義所以也不會要求台灣改變我們既原有的法令是不是"},{"start":520.117,"end":545.434,"text":"改變法令這個當然是雙邊如果有共識的標準之下那會去改變法令但是不必然一定會去改變我們在科技方面的這個法令的要求所以它不一定會但是有可能會去改變是不是就如果是我們雙方講好的特別是按照國際標準所應該要遵循的國內法規的話這個部分當然就會討論是會有檢討的空間好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":481,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（10時48分）謝謝主席，我想請經貿辦公室的顏慧欣。"],["主席：請顏副總談判代表。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，還有郭部長。"],["主席：請經濟部郭部長。"],["謝委員衣鳯：郭部長，你認不認識你旁邊這個美女？我今天看到我們經委會來了一個新的美女──顏副總代表。"],["郭部長智輝：我不太認識。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你不太認識？"],["郭部長智輝：第一次……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我相信大家都不認識，所以特別請他來。","副總代表，我想請問一下，現在川普總統已經當選了，所以這已經不是scenario，這是一個事實，而川普總統所說的，就是他反對在拜登總統時候所建立的印太經濟架構。印太經濟架構未來會不會廢除，你覺得有沒有這樣的可能性？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：謝謝委員的垂詢，就印太經濟架構，我們確實看到川普總統在競選的時候有提到，印太經濟架構可能不是他當初所設想的一個政策方向。所以如果依據過去川普總統在第一任的經驗，他上任之後，因為對於TPP，確實他就退出了TPP這樣子的一個作法的話，當然可能對於印太經濟架構，我們不排除或許他會再評估，這個是我們所看到的。但我也要補充的就是，實際上印太框架，就是Quad這個活動，是在川普第一任當總統的時候把它提升到總統層級，也代表川普總統實際上對於印太的這個合作是相當重視的。所以我相信他對於印太區域的推動，不論透過哪一個面向的強化，他會持續推動。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你認為他不會廢除這個嗎？他當初說要廢除。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：對，就是印太經濟架構本身的內容，或許他會再做進一步檢討。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那WTO呢？他會不會廢除？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：就WTO的部分，我必須要講，實際上川普總統在第一任的時候也是批評WTO非常多，但是WTO實際上涉及到的，現在已經有166個會員，所以對美國來說，所謂川普總統的意思，他要廢除，應該他只是在指美國是不是要評估退出WTO？但是說實在的，如果美國退出WTO的話，反而是讓剩下的其他國家對美國本身是不用遵守WTO承諾，未必對美國是最好的一個方向。"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果川普不支持WTO，對於藉由WTO所形成ITA相關的協定會不會有影響？經濟部長，這就是你的議題了，對不對？ITA，會不會有影響？"],["郭部長智輝：我想是這樣子，全球自由貿易已死，這個是張忠謀董事長在前幾天所講的，其實之前就已經這樣倡議。事實上我們看到，當川普上來以後，因為他的政策就是「讓美國更偉大」，所以過去的一些思維應該確實是會改變。但是國際的狀況，我想未來會趨於區域經濟化，所以區域經濟化我們可以看得到，像過去幾個地方，我們可以明顯地看到歐盟，可以看到東南亞國協，這些都是屬於區域經濟的部分。我個人認為，就我所學的，我認為未來會走向區域經濟，更能夠代替所謂的全球自由貿易化。"],["謝委員衣鳯：目前我們出口到美國的，現在占的比重是22%，有很多是在高科技的部分。這個部分未來在川普總統上任之後，會不會對於相關的關稅會有所改變，你的評估呢？"],["郭部長智輝：這個關稅應該是都會改變，我剛才也報告過，我們的對策其實是利用「境外關內」這樣子的措施，我把臺灣一部分的供應鏈帶到美國去落地生產。因為供應鏈集中落地生產，它有個優勢就是，它在logistic上面的cost完全降低，彼此供應鏈之間的資源可以快速，所以對我們在美國的廠商有非常重大的優勢，應該可以減少……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以是不是未來臺灣半導體的供應鏈必須變成整條都要帶到美國去生產，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：也不是說只有必須到美國，因為市場在哪裡，我們的供應鏈就應該到那裡。"],["謝委員衣鳯：去美國、去歐洲，就要走出去，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：因為全球已經沒有辦法，已經打破那個，區域的經濟共盟，這個一定會形成。因為地緣政治的關係，包括極端氣候的影響，所以這個市場已經完全改變。張忠謀董事長非常厲害，他有先見之明，他可以推論到自由貿易已經死了，所以我個人是遵從這樣的看法。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以台積電必須要出走了？"],["郭部長智輝：市場在哪裡，我們現在是接近市場嘛！所以這樣的一個作法，我個人認為是正確的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：如果台積電出走，剛才也有委員問到，2奈米的會不會移到美國去？"],["郭部長智輝：我們國內有一些科技的管制，2奈米要去的時候，最起碼我們1.4奈米要在國內已經是落地生產。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那我們現在1.4奈米有沒有辦法？"],["郭部長智輝：現在還在那個……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以沒辦法？"],["郭部長智輝：2奈米我們都還沒生產。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以2奈米是沒有辦法去？"],["郭部長智輝：不是現在。"],["謝委員衣鳯：不是現在？"],["郭部長智輝：eventually一定會去。"],["謝委員衣鳯：當然，那要等到1.4奈米出來的時候才會去嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：這個是我們國家的規定。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以現在2奈米的不會去，那未來……"],["郭部長智輝：會。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我要再問一下副總代表。我想要請問，川普上來了的話，他重視的就是雙邊的貿易談判，是不是？那有沒有可能，臺美的FTA有沒有辦法啟動？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我們會看到確實川普政府比較喜歡走雙邊的路線，目前臺灣跟美國之間已經有啟動很多的雙邊機制，這幾年來都已經建立，包括臺美21世紀貿易倡議、EPPD到TTIC，都是我們運作良好的雙邊管道。我們會在這個既有的基礎之下，希望尋求可以跟川普新政府有更多往來互動的空間。當然我們也不排除有機會……"],["謝委員衣鳯：「如果」我們要重啟FTA的時候，他會不會要求台積電的2奈米必須要到美國去生產？他可以藉由這個框架，是不是？在FTA談判的時候，會不會有這樣的可能性？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：通常如果談FTA的話，只會談到關稅、投資保護這樣的一個概念，所以對於這些產業要如何移動，或者要分散他們的布局，這個不一定會是在既有的FTA架構之下去談論的議題。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以也不會要求臺灣改變我們原有的法令，是不是？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：改變法令，這個當然是雙邊如果有共識的標準之下，那會去改變法令，但是不必然一定會去改變我們在科技方面的這個法令的要求。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以他不一定會，但是有可能會去改變，是不是？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：如果是我們雙方講好的，特別是按照國際標準所應該要遵循的國內法規的話，這個部分當然就會討論，是會有檢討的空間。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝謝衣鳯委員。下一位質詢請呂玉玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":424,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-11","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","陳超明","賴瑞隆","林楚茵","陳培瑜","黃仁","馬文君","賴士葆","麥玉珍","張嘉郡","林德福","陳冠廷","蔡易餘","賴惠員","林倩綺","黃建賓"],"page_start":365,"meetingDate":["2024-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1139501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、農業部部長、行政院經貿談判辦公室首長、外交部\n首長、大陸委員會首長就「我國當前經貿情勢分析及如何有效拓展國際經貿空間戰略規劃之相關\n政策作為，暨申請加入 CPTPP 進度說明、成員國立場分析與跨部會推動機制」進行報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1139501_00019"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}