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部長"},{"start":68.08,"end":77.367,"text":"應該是三年三年了還沒有正式的進入也沒辦法做一個工作小組那這個原因你知道嗎"},{"start":78.584,"end":106.148,"text":"因為他們之前都在審議這個因素審議了3年部長12個會員國我們是屬於共識決的嘛對不對他要不要共識12個會員國都要同意那現在的話我們看到3年過去了我們還是沒有那但是我們是出國導向的經濟模式那現在我們碰到的瓶頸就是未來我們要如何去解決我們這個經濟全球經濟的這個模式呢"},{"start":107.711,"end":112.562,"text":"我們能積極地,我想再努力的談判辦公室主導這一個"},{"start":115.186,"end":140.454,"text":"這件任務那其他的包括我們經濟部包括其他相關部門外交部等等都很努力在跟這個所謂的會員國因為是共識決所以我們都跟會員國在利用各種國際的這個場域那大家彼此在能夠是部長你講的我們都做了我們經貿代表在那邊我們都做了做了三年了"},{"start":141.257,"end":155.674,"text":"哪裏不足?哪個國家反對?沒有!早要聽你講話大家都非常歡迎我們進入在非常歡迎、沒有阻礙、沒有困難的情況之下三年又過去了你有看到我們的前途光景嗎?"},{"start":156.855,"end":181.574,"text":"未來大概什麼時候會被審核正式進入呢?至少讓我們可以工作小組有的話工作小組就會組成啊還是沒有那尤其日本你看我們開放了那個福島核災的食品進來了我們也都都已經妥協了讓國人的健康的疑慮我們也都做到了這些我們都吃了"},{"start":182.831,"end":210.526,"text":"國人不該吃的也就吃了這種情況之下難道美國沒有幫我們背書一下嗎?像日本也可以幫我們背書一下嗎?都沒有嗎?雖然說我們當時的這個TPP是美國它現在不是CPTPP的會員國但是有美國的背書也就不一樣啦所以你看來自於進口啦我們還要怎麼做才能夠順利進入報告委員這個可能跟美國沒有關係因為美國已經退出了"},{"start":211.365,"end":220.009,"text":"推出拜登的時候他也沒有加入現在又是川普上來我想美國會進入CPTPP應該是"},{"start":224.226,"end":247.165,"text":"不會了啦,因為他是退出的他是我們全球的大國他有跟很多國家有一些貿易的協議嘛所以他如果跟我們背書對我們是有幫助的對不對那好,那部長沒關係,我就請我們原副總他因為他退出的國家幫我們背書這個在邏輯上面可能會有一點比較勉強啦多多幫我們疏通啦,把我們的障礙給移除掉他都退出了,他要幫我們疏通也給我們幫忙啊"},{"start":250.288,"end":252.871,"text":"我們是不是我們12國叫我們都尋求幫忙阿那我請教一下那日本為什麼還沒有跟我們這個非正式的幫我們簽訂這個談這個貿易協定的協商呢"},{"start":263.7,"end":280.835,"text":"日本我們都有在努力啦那為什麼還沒有日本是一個比較韓他跟我們關係不是很好嗎為什麼還沒有因為我們通過就像剛才委員你所垂詢的這個福島的這個海產我們也是最近才開放的"},{"start":282.017,"end":302.253,"text":"開放很久了沒有今年喔今年開放 今年已經11月了但是我們三年過程都沒有過所以我們也跟他日本跟我們非常友好嘛所以我們是不是要準備跟他來做這個貿易的協商我們跟日本的貿易也是非常穩健的在進行有進行有談嗎我們的副總代表"},{"start":310.357,"end":329.969,"text":"謝謝委員我們實際上跟所有的這個CPTPP的國家都有透過多邊、雙邊包括iPad我請問日本有沒有進行非正式的貿易協商我們要講的所謂的非正式貿易協商對日本有沒有我們當然有有那現在為什麼還沒進行"},{"start":333.735,"end":359.411,"text":"我們有進行跟他們做在其他的管道上面的一個...為什麼其他管道?不能正式嗎?非正式嗎?的貿易協商?所有的現代的接觸都是非正式的所以跟日本有談?談好了嗎?我們跟所有的CPTPP國家...日本有沒有?你不要...我在問你日本日本是CPTPP國家其中一位,對所以有非正式的貿易協商了?談好了?有接觸過那談了怎麼樣?"},{"start":362.009,"end":383.911,"text":"基本上這個就是在增進他們對我們的瞭解然後確保我們確實有我跟日本人這麼友好這麼熟了這個他們的福島核災食品我們也吃了那還有什麼沒有做到的還要怎麼樣還有什麼困難你談的結果有什麼困難在這一點有什麼困難還要我們做什麼還要我們妥協什麼"},{"start":386.071,"end":411.318,"text":"跟委員報告就是這些議題基本上日本他完全認為我們是符合高標準也是有良好記錄的都符合對都符合了現在有什麼困難我想我們的唯一的挑戰只是共識決這個部分他請我們要去努力跟各個會員國溝通所以我的意思說要先進行非正式貿易協商嘛對不對所以好部長"},{"start":412.54,"end":438.185,"text":"我們現在看到的就是我們都做了一些努力那但是大家都想目前我們跟大陸的關係不太好那所有當然會員國對大陸有所忌憚所以這個雙邊關係之下就沒有辦法來支持我們台灣但是只要一個會員國反對我們就沒辦法進入那我們跟大陸一起申請這個CPTPP是差不多的時間"},{"start":441.335,"end":446.759,"text":"如果說大陸這邊還一直有打壓的情況之下我們就會很困難是不是應該是這樣的吧"},{"start":450.473,"end":474.009,"text":"應該就如同委員所垂詢的這個狀況是 如果是這種狀況的話我們為了要讓經濟的體制跟我們這個整個市場開放的這個挑戰我們自己要有開創我們的新的經濟貿易的這條路嘛那所以說這個雙邊的FTA我們就必須要積極的來談了是的那這方面我們有努力哪些國家我們都一直在努力哪些國家已經在做的"},{"start":474.81,"end":486.649,"text":"我們現在這個在進行的部分那個委員這個部分我在這裡不太好發表了我們是不是簽一個這個MDA然後再來跟你報告"},{"start":487.746,"end":508.257,"text":"對 可以到辦公室報告是嗎我可以到辦公室跟你報告好 那還是要我們抬機密報告但我們也會抬一個機密報告是不是如果牽扯到國安的部分就是要機密報告好 那我們部長有慢慢進入狀況了可是我們看到現在連那個加拿大我們的全鄰的這個牛肉我們都進口了"},{"start":508.817,"end":532.804,"text":"所以加拿大也是我們都可以去談所以本席在這邊希望我們很多的顧忌跟我們的困難點我們必須要想辦法去突破尤其是FTA我們要去努力讓我們在大陸的打壓情況下又沒辦法進入CPTPP的情況之下我們在區域經濟當中的整合部分我們就要找出一個突破點"},{"start":533.604,"end":538.18,"text":"不要讓我們成為經濟的一個孤立好不好謝謝 謝謝委員垂詢我們會努力"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:57:28.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:57:31.533000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請郭部長和經貿談判代表的顏副總。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-07T10:57:31.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:57:32.653000+08:00","text":"請經濟部郭部長、顏副總談判代表。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T10:57:33.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:57:33.553000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:57:43.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:58:15.252000+08:00","text":"部長，臺灣是出口導向貿易的經濟模式，尤其我們的GDP有六成都來自於出口貿易，所以我們現在要談的CPTPP就非常重要，我們妥協了很多他們的要求，像是對美國我們開放了萊豬進口，也解禁了日本福島食品，就是希望我們的CPTPP能夠更進一步。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:58:15.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:58:21.634000+08:00","text":"但是現在我們看到，我們提出了申請，現在已經幾年了，部長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T10:58:25.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:58:25.660000+08:00","text":"應該是3年。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:58:26.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:58:34.367000+08:00","text":"3年了，還沒有正式進入，也沒辦法做一個工作小組，這個原因你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T10:58:35.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:58:36.645000+08:00","text":"因為他們之前都在審議英國。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:58:38.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:58:38.507000+08:00","text":"審議了3年？對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:58:41.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:58:44.812000+08:00","text":"12個會員國，我們是屬於共識決的，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T10:58:44.812000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:58:45.812000+08:00","text":"共識決。","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:58:44.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:58:47.014000+08:00","text":"他們要有共識，12個會員國……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T10:58:47.014000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T10:58:48.014000+08:00","text":"共識決是其中……","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:58:47.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:58:47.935000+08:00","text":"都要同意。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:58:50.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:59:03.128000+08:00","text":"3年過去了還是沒有，但我們是出口導向的經濟模式，現在我們碰到的瓶頸就是，未來要如何解決我們這個全球經濟的模式呢？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T10:59:04.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:59:29.972000+08:00","text":"我想在努力的，談判辦公室主導這這一件任務，其他的包括經濟部，包括其他相關部門、外交部等等，都很努力在跟所謂的會員國，因為是共識決，所以我們都跟會員國之間利用各種國際場域，大家彼此能夠交流……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:59:29.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:59:38.678000+08:00","text":"是，部長講的我們都做了，經貿代表也在那邊，我們都做了，做了3年，哪裡不足？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:59:39.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:59:40.660000+08:00","text":"哪個國家反對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:59:40.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:59:44.624000+08:00","text":"沒有，只要聽你講話，大家都非常歡迎我們進入。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:59:45.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:59:52.674000+08:00","text":"在非常歡迎、沒有阻礙、沒有困難的情況之下，3年又過去了，你有看到我們的前途光景嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:59:53.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T10:59:57.278000+08:00","text":"未來大概什麼時候會被審核正式進入呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T10:59:58.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:00:02.682000+08:00","text":"至少讓我們可以有工作小組，有的話，工作小組就會組成，還是沒有！","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:00:03.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:00:25.634000+08:00","text":"尤其日本，我們開放福島核災的食品進來了，我們都已經妥協了，對國人健康的疑慮，我們也都處理了，這些我們都吃了，國人不該吃的也都吃了，這種情況之下，難道美國沒有幫我們背書一下嗎？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:00:26.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:00:29.556000+08:00","text":"日本也可以幫我們背書一下，都沒有嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:00:29.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:00:42.623000+08:00","text":"雖然美國當時是TPP，他現在不是CPTPP的會員國，但是有美國的背書也就不一樣，所以萊豬也進口了，我們還要怎麼做，才能夠順利進入？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:00:43.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:02.067000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個可能跟美國沒有關係，因為美國已經退出了，拜登在任的時候，美國也沒有加入，現在又是川普上來，我想美國應該是不會進入CPTPP了，因為他退出了……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:02.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:05.109000+08:00","text":"他是全球的大國……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:05.109000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:06.109000+08:00","text":"對，但是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:05.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:12.015000+08:00","text":"他跟很多國家有一些貿易的協議，所以他如果給我們背書對我們是有幫助的，對不對？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:12.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:14.357000+08:00","text":"好，部長，沒關係，我就請顏副總……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:14.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:20.522000+08:00","text":"不是，他是退出的國家，幫我們背書，在邏輯上面可能會有一點比較勉強啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:20.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:23.005000+08:00","text":"多多幫我們疏通，把我們的障礙一併除掉……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:23.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:23.785000+08:00","text":"他都退出了，他怎麼幫我們疏通？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:23.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:28.209000+08:00","text":"他可以幫忙我們，我們是不是12個國家都要尋求幫忙？","quality":0.619},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:28.209000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:29.209000+08:00","text":"報告委員，他會講他都退出了，要怎麼幫忙我們？","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:28.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:29.851000+08:00","text":"好，那我請教一下，日本為什麼還沒有跟我們談這個貿易協定的非正式協商呢？日本？對啊！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:40.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:42.902000+08:00","text":"日本我們都有在努力……","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:43.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:44.183000+08:00","text":"那為什麼還沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:44.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:45.484000+08:00","text":"日本是一個比較……","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:45.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:47.546000+08:00","text":"他跟我們的關係不是很好嗎……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:47.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:48.546000+08:00","text":"他是一個很……","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:47.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:48.207000+08:00","text":"為什麼還沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:48.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:57.815000+08:00","text":"因為就像剛才委員所垂詢的福島海產，我們也是最近才開放的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:59.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:01:59.478000+08:00","text":"開放很久了，部長。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:01:59.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:00.959000+08:00","text":"沒有，今年。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:01.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:03.200000+08:00","text":"今年開放，現在已經11月了……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:03.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:07.964000+08:00","text":"但是我們這三年的過程都沒有過，所以我們也很難……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:08.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:14.049000+08:00","text":"日本跟我們非常友好，所以我們是不是要準備跟他做這個貿易的協商？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:15.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:17.491000+08:00","text":"我們跟日本的貿易也是非常穩……","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:17.491000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:18.491000+08:00","text":"有做了嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:18.491000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:19.491000+08:00","text":"有去談嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:17.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:18.152000+08:00","text":"非常穩健的在進行……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:18.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:18.552000+08:00","text":"有進行，有談嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:18.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:19.233000+08:00","text":"副總代表。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:27.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:34.061000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我們實際上跟所有CPTPP的國家都有透過多邊、雙邊，包括APEC、WTO，在進行……","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:35.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:38.084000+08:00","text":"請問我們跟日本有沒有進行非正式的貿易協商？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:39.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:42.046000+08:00","text":"我們要講的，所謂的非……","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:42.046000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:43.046000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:42.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:42.807000+08:00","text":"非正式貿易協商在成立工作小組……","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:43.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:44.528000+08:00","text":"我們跟日本有沒有？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:45.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:46.089000+08:00","text":"我們當然有，我們在雙邊的……","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:46.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:46.949000+08:00","text":"有，那現在為什麼還沒進行？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:50.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:54.357000+08:00","text":"我們有進行跟他們在其他管道上面的協商……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:55.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:02:58.720000+08:00","text":"為什麼要其他管道，不能非正式的貿易協商嗎？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:02:59.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:01.362000+08:00","text":"現在所有的接觸都是非正式的。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:01.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:04.724000+08:00","text":"所以跟日本有談，談好了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:04.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:06.305000+08:00","text":"我們跟所有CPTPP的國家都有接觸……","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:06.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:07.105000+08:00","text":"日本有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:07.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:07.846000+08:00","text":"你不要……","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:07.846000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:08.846000+08:00","text":"日本當然是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:08.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:09.206000+08:00","text":"我在問你日本。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:09.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:11.408000+08:00","text":"日本是CPTPP的國家其中一位，我們有接觸……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:11.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:14.630000+08:00","text":"所以有非正式的貿易協商了，談好了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:15.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:16.251000+08:00","text":"有接觸過……","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:16.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:16.411000+08:00","text":"那談得怎麼樣？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:19.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:23.313000+08:00","text":"基本上，這個就是在增進他們對我們的瞭解，然後確保我們確實有……","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:23.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:31.581000+08:00","text":"我們跟日本這麼友好、這麼熟了，他們的福島核災食品我們也吃了，還有什麼沒有做到的？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:32.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:34.084000+08:00","text":"還要怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:34.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:35.065000+08:00","text":"還有什麼困難？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:35.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:37.507000+08:00","text":"你去談的結果有什麼困難？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:37.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:39.089000+08:00","text":"在這點有什麼困難？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:39.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:40.210000+08:00","text":"還要我們做什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:40.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:40.911000+08:00","text":"還要我們妥協什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:43.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:50.653000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這一些議題，基本上，日本完全認為我們是符合高標準，也是有良好紀錄的……","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:51.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:03:54.434000+08:00","text":"對，都符合了，現在有什麼困難？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏副總談判代表慧欣","start":"2024-11-07T11:03:54.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:04:00.656000+08:00","text":"我想我們唯一的挑戰只是共識決這個部分，他請我們要去努力跟各個會員國溝通。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:04:01.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:04:07.918000+08:00","text":"所以我的意思是要先進行非正式的貿易協商，對不對？好。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:04:08.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:04:43.198000+08:00","text":"部長，我們現在看到的就是我們都已經做了一些努力，但是大家都想，目前我們跟大陸的關係不太好，當然會員國會對大陸有所忌憚，這個雙邊關係之下，就沒有辦法來支持我們臺灣，只要有一個會員國反對，我們就沒辦法進入，我們跟大陸一起申請進入CPTPP是差不多的時間，如果大陸還一直有打壓的情況之下，我們就會很困難，是不是？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:04:43.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:04:43.739000+08:00","text":"應該是這樣子吧！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:04:47.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:04:50.155000+08:00","text":"應該就如同委員所垂詢的這個狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:04:50.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:05:05.425000+08:00","text":"如果是這種狀況的話，為了要讓我們的經濟體制因應整個市場開放的挑戰，我們自己要開創新的經濟貿易這條路，所以雙邊的FTA我們就必須要積極來談了。是的。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:05:06.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:05:08.367000+08:00","text":"那這方面我們有努力哪些國家嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:05:08.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:05:09.328000+08:00","text":"我們都一直在努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:05:09.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:05:10.989000+08:00","text":"哪些國家已經在做的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:05:11.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:05:23.629000+08:00","text":"我們現在在進行的部分，委員，我在這裡不太好發表，我們是不是簽一個NDA，再來跟你報告？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:05:24.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:05:26.587000+08:00","text":"可以到辦公室報告，是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:05:26.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:05:27.608000+08:00","text":"我可以到辦公室跟你報告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:05:27.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:05:32.650000+08:00","text":"好，還是要我們排機密報告，在我們委員會排一個機密報告，是不是？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:05:32.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:05:35.192000+08:00","text":"如果牽扯到國安的部分，就是要機密報告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:05:35.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:05:37.933000+08:00","text":"好，部長有慢慢進入狀況了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:05:39.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:05:49.238000+08:00","text":"另外，我們看到現在連加拿大全齡的牛肉我們都進口了，所以加拿大也是，我們都可以去談。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2024-11-07T11:05:49.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:06:13.273000+08:00","text":"本席在這邊希望我們很多的顧忌及困難點必須要想辦法去突破，尤其是FTA，我們要去努力，讓我們在大陸的打壓又沒辦法進入CPTPP的情況之下，在區域經濟整合的部分，找出一個突破點，不要讓我們經濟孤立，好不好？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-11-07T11:06:13.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-07T11:06:15.160000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝，謝謝委員垂詢，我們會努力。好。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-07T11:06:15.660000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T11:06:19.088571+08:00","text":"謝謝呂玉玲委員，部長請回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-07T11:06:19.388571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-07T11:06:22.531429+08:00","text":"下一位質詢請陳超明委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":530,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時57分）謝謝主席，請郭部長和經貿談判代表的顏副總。"],["主席：請經濟部郭部長、顏副總談判代表。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，臺灣是出口導向貿易的經濟模式，尤其我們的GDP有六成都來自於出口貿易，所以我們現在要談的CPTPP就非常重要，我們妥協了很多他們的要求，像是對美國我們開放了萊豬進口，也解禁了日本福島食品，就是希望我們的CPTPP能夠更進一步。但是現在我們看到，我們提出了申請，現在已經幾年了，部長？"],["郭部長智輝：應該是3年。"],["呂委員玉玲：3年了，還沒有正式進入，也沒辦法做一個工作小組，這個原因你知道嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：因為他們之前都在審議英國。"],["呂委員玉玲：審議了3年？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：12個會員國，我們是屬於共識決的，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：共識決。"],["呂委員玉玲：他們要有共識，12個會員國……"],["郭部長智輝：共識決是其中……"],["呂委員玉玲：都要同意。3年過去了還是沒有，但我們是出口導向的經濟模式，現在我們碰到的瓶頸就是，未來要如何解決我們這個全球經濟的模式呢？"],["郭部長智輝：我想在努力的，談判辦公室主導這這一件任務，其他的包括經濟部，包括其他相關部門、外交部等等，都很努力在跟所謂的會員國，因為是共識決，所以我們都跟會員國之間利用各種國際場域，大家彼此能夠交流……"],["呂委員玉玲：是，部長講的我們都做了，經貿代表也在那邊，我們都做了，做了3年，哪裡不足？哪個國家反對？沒有，只要聽你講話，大家都非常歡迎我們進入。在非常歡迎、沒有阻礙、沒有困難的情況之下，3年又過去了，你有看到我們的前途光景嗎？未來大概什麼時候會被審核正式進入呢？至少讓我們可以有工作小組，有的話，工作小組就會組成，還是沒有！尤其日本，我們開放福島核災的食品進來了，我們都已經妥協了，對國人健康的疑慮，我們也都處理了，這些我們都吃了，國人不該吃的也都吃了，這種情況之下，難道美國沒有幫我們背書一下嗎？日本也可以幫我們背書一下，都沒有嗎？雖然美國當時是TPP，他現在不是CPTPP的會員國，但是有美國的背書也就不一樣，所以萊豬也進口了，我們還要怎麼做，才能夠順利進入？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，這個可能跟美國沒有關係，因為美國已經退出了，拜登在任的時候，美國也沒有加入，現在又是川普上來，我想美國應該是不會進入CPTPP了，因為他退出了……"],["呂委員玉玲：他是全球的大國……"],["郭部長智輝：對，但是……"],["呂委員玉玲：他跟很多國家有一些貿易的協議，所以他如果給我們背書對我們是有幫助的，對不對？好，部長，沒關係，我就請顏副總……"],["郭部長智輝：不是，他是退出的國家，幫我們背書，在邏輯上面可能會有一點比較勉強啦！"],["呂委員玉玲：多多幫我們疏通，把我們的障礙一併除掉……"],["郭部長智輝：他都退出了，他怎麼幫我們疏通？"],["呂委員玉玲：他可以幫忙我們，我們是不是12個國家都要尋求幫忙？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，他會講他都退出了，要怎麼幫忙我們？"],["呂委員玉玲：好，那我請教一下，日本為什麼還沒有跟我們談這個貿易協定的非正式協商呢？"],["郭部長智輝：日本？"],["呂委員玉玲：對啊！"],["郭部長智輝：日本我們都有在努力……"],["呂委員玉玲：那為什麼還沒有？"],["郭部長智輝：日本是一個比較……"],["呂委員玉玲：他跟我們的關係不是很好嗎……"],["郭部長智輝：他是一個很……"],["呂委員玉玲：為什麼還沒有？"],["郭部長智輝：因為就像剛才委員所垂詢的福島海產，我們也是最近才開放的……"],["呂委員玉玲：開放很久了，部長。"],["郭部長智輝：沒有，今年。"],["呂委員玉玲：今年開放，現在已經11月了……"],["郭部長智輝：但是我們這三年的過程都沒有過，所以我們也很難……"],["呂委員玉玲：日本跟我們非常友好，所以我們是不是要準備跟他做這個貿易的協商？"],["郭部長智輝：我們跟日本的貿易也是非常穩……"],["呂委員玉玲：有做了嗎？有去談嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：非常穩健的在進行……"],["呂委員玉玲：有進行，有談嗎？副總代表。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：謝謝委員，我們實際上跟所有CPTPP的國家都有透過多邊、雙邊，包括APEC、WTO，在進行……"],["呂委員玉玲：請問我們跟日本有沒有進行非正式的貿易協商？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我們要講的，所謂的非……"],["呂委員玉玲：有沒有？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：非正式貿易協商在成立工作小組……"],["呂委員玉玲：我們跟日本有沒有？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我們當然有，我們在雙邊的……"],["呂委員玉玲：有，那現在為什麼還沒進行？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我們有進行跟他們在其他管道上面的協商……"],["呂委員玉玲：為什麼要其他管道，不能非正式的貿易協商嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：現在所有的接觸都是非正式的。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以跟日本有談，談好了嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我們跟所有CPTPP的國家都有接觸……"],["呂委員玉玲：日本有沒有？你不要……"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：日本當然是……"],["呂委員玉玲：我在問你日本。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：日本是CPTPP的國家其中一位，我們有接觸……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以有非正式的貿易協商了，談好了？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：有接觸過……"],["呂委員玉玲：那談得怎麼樣？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：基本上，這個就是在增進他們對我們的瞭解，然後確保我們確實有……"],["呂委員玉玲：我們跟日本這麼友好、這麼熟了，他們的福島核災食品我們也吃了，還有什麼沒有做到的？還要怎麼樣？還有什麼困難？你去談的結果有什麼困難？在這點有什麼困難？還要我們做什麼？還要我們妥協什麼？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：跟委員報告，這一些議題，基本上，日本完全認為我們是符合高標準，也是有良好紀錄的……"],["呂委員玉玲：對，都符合了，現在有什麼困難？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我想我們唯一的挑戰只是共識決這個部分，他請我們要去努力跟各個會員國溝通。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我的意思是要先進行非正式的貿易協商，對不對？好。","部長，我們現在看到的就是我們都已經做了一些努力，但是大家都想，目前我們跟大陸的關係不太好，當然會員國會對大陸有所忌憚，這個雙邊關係之下，就沒有辦法來支持我們臺灣，只要有一個會員國反對，我們就沒辦法進入，我們跟大陸一起申請進入CPTPP是差不多的時間，如果大陸還一直有打壓的情況之下，我們就會很困難，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：應該是這樣子吧！應該就如同委員所垂詢的這個狀況。"],["呂委員玉玲：如果是這種狀況的話，為了要讓我們的經濟體制因應整個市場開放的挑戰，我們自己要開創新的經濟貿易這條路，所以雙邊的FTA我們就必須要積極來談了。"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["呂委員玉玲：那這方面我們有努力哪些國家嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們都一直在努力。"],["呂委員玉玲：哪些國家已經在做的？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在在進行的部分，委員，我在這裡不太好發表，我們是不是簽一個NDA，再來跟你報告？"],["呂委員玉玲：可以到辦公室報告，是嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我可以到辦公室跟你報告。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，還是要我們排機密報告，在我們委員會排一個機密報告，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：如果牽扯到國安的部分，就是要機密報告。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，部長有慢慢進入狀況了。另外，我們看到現在連加拿大全齡的牛肉我們都進口了，所以加拿大也是，我們都可以去談。本席在這邊希望我們很多的顧忌及困難點必須要想辦法去突破，尤其是FTA，我們要去努力，讓我們在大陸的打壓又沒辦法進入CPTPP的情況之下，在區域經濟整合的部分，找出一個突破點，不要讓我們經濟孤立，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝，謝謝委員垂詢，我們會努力。"],["呂委員玉玲：好。"],["主席：謝謝呂玉玲委員，部長請回座。","下一位質詢請陳超明委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":424,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-11","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","陳超明","賴瑞隆","林楚茵","陳培瑜","黃仁","馬文君","賴士葆","麥玉珍","張嘉郡","林德福","陳冠廷","蔡易餘","賴惠員","林倩綺","黃建賓"],"page_start":365,"meetingDate":["2024-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1139501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、農業部部長、行政院經貿談判辦公室首長、外交部\n首長、大陸委員會首長就「我國當前經貿情勢分析及如何有效拓展國際經貿空間戰略規劃之相關\n政策作為，暨申請加入 CPTPP 進度說明、成員國立場分析與跨部會推動機制」進行報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1139501_00019"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}