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Agreement今年底會生效那請問川普上台之後你們掌控的情資會不會有所影響會不會"},{"start":513.417,"end":519.201,"text":"第二階段因為已經談判到一個階段了後面的二三階段我們必須因應他的對貿易的主張"},{"start":529.724,"end":546.982,"text":"在做一些談判這個部分目前第二階段大部分的項目也已經有了公示那你認為目前談判以及川普當選那會不會影響到我們年底要生效"},{"start":548.104,"end":564.686,"text":"年底的生效是已經確定的啦就是美方我想在拜登政府還任內嘛還沒有到新政府上任那就是這有分階段所以我們在第二階段"},{"start":565.697,"end":589.842,"text":"很多共識也已經有了但是能不能把它完成我們還要再跟新政府來談部長我想這個是你負責任的一個談法所以本席剛開始也希望我們好不容易在去年6月份所簽訂那今年年底呢一定務必要達陣成功因為接下來所面臨的挑戰跟現在的政府有很多的方向似乎有所不同"},{"start":590.842,"end":607.213,"text":"對,我們要鞏固一些美台關係在拜登總統任內已經有共識的項目那另外除了美台21世紀貿易商業就是避免雙重瞌睡那我們也期待說在美國大選完之後到這個交接期間他們國會也是會開議能夠把它順利的完成"},{"start":611.175,"end":631.59,"text":"所以我要給你一句話也就是說我希望的我們當然我們要鞏固我們的安全但是我們也不能讓人家予取予求作為一個交易的籌碼這個變化就請部長要說一定是我們以國家的安全跟這個人民的利益為依據"},{"start":632.771,"end":634.353,"text":"主席我最後邀請一下我們陸委會"},{"start":663.982,"end":681.401,"text":"我剛剛在經濟委員會特別提出川普時代老一齡出口的國家是壓力很大因為他是高關稅這樣的一個情況之下對台目前他宣示60%對其他的國家10到20%"},{"start":682.742,"end":709.765,"text":"那我請教我們我國目前的狀態我們所會受影響的那麼我們的郭部長直接回答本席說臺商影響最大臺商影響最大你認為郭部長回答的這一句話高關稅對大陸川普政府他目前規劃的是60%你認為郭部長說的對臺商的影響最大這一句話你的解讀呢"},{"start":711.291,"end":728.79,"text":"我沒有仔細看郭部長的講話但是如果假設美國真的對大陸的商品提高到60%的話那因為我們台灣有很多高科技廠商是在大陸生產然後出口到美國的所以確實會對台灣的"},{"start":731.612,"end":747.797,"text":"在大陸投資的這些廠商會有影響那這也會影響到說這些廠商會不會繼續留在大陸繼續生產的問題所以他可能會留到印度、越南或是回到台灣都有可能"},{"start":748.217,"end":751.54,"text":"因為郭部長有講了一句話我再請外交部長回答我一句話因為郭部長說什麼呢說因應這個方向有一個他的方法就是境外"},{"start":775.828,"end":777.369,"text":"有關委員這個政策我們現在佈局基本上就是"},{"start":796.883,"end":811.898,"text":"我們怎麼樣去把我們的領先優勢確保,然後去布局全球。所以半導體來講,我們現在也有一個晶片戰略啊,就技術深耕台灣,產線布局全球。我們不是被迫什麼China plus one,台灣 plus one,我們要台灣plus n。"},{"start":814.64,"end":830.17,"text":"郭部長已經說了境外轉產的概念所以在這種情況之下因為你是外交部長我要告訴你這個訊息本席告訴你這個訊息到時候我們的廠商要到世界各國去的時候外交部要發揮你的能力"},{"start":832.551,"end":835.333,"text":"臺灣政府也扮演一個角色,類似這個例子,日本也是,美國也同樣,大概以這樣的方式,我們不要把這個供應鏈的重組當威脅,要當作一個我們佈局全球的職位"},{"start":854.005,"end":855.889,"text":"至於說布局全球,台商都已經在布局全球了。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":544,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時32分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。邀請部長。"],["主席：請林部長。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，我們首先來討論昨天川普當選了，臺美關係會如何，指標又是為何。我們看到臺美關係的走向，以往美方重申我們的是臺灣關係法、美中三公報以及美國對我們有6項保證為基本的一中政策的說法，所以首先請教部長，在他當選之後、就任之後會不會有所改變？我們的看法，在指標方面，以什麼為指標來看他的變動？請說明。"],["林部長佳龍：是，跟委員說明，我想美臺關係在過去制定臺灣關係法之後，也歷經很多次他們政黨輪替，我們可以發現它有它的一致性跟延續性，所以在這個基礎上，當然行政、立法兩個部門，我們就是怎麼樣來鞏固甚至拓展美臺的關係。至於新政府的作法，外界大概都有所報導，就是更強調美國優先，然後會用一些經濟工具作為外交的手段；然後在國際政治上，就是對於多邊主義可能比較保守，會強調以美國為中心的雙邊主義，當然，有一些是單邊主義，這涉及到對於特定的議題，我想川普總統的政策主張，我們大概有通盤地針對他的外交政策，因為基本上我覺得他關注還是對中國，一個體制挑戰者，抗中這個方向甚至會有過之而不及，可是在美臺關係上，並不是只有抗中，也有美臺關係，其實互相之間要去協調，我想在這個方面，我們的外交空間可以因應新的變局，我對美臺關係的發展是建立在這樣一致性跟延續性的判斷上，我們要因應新總統的領導作風跟他的政策重點，要做一些因應的調整。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席給部長充分的時間說明，但是本席還是要提醒部長，因為川普的外交政策就誠如你剛才說的，他是偏向在美國的孤立，而且他是保護主義者，非常強烈，反中、制中的氛圍當然是一貫性，但是我要提醒的是，反中不代表他就是友臺，你可以認同這句話嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：對，這個不等同。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不等同，好，我們理念一致的時候，我首先要請問你，川普在競選的時候拋出一個臺灣保護費，他說軍費要增加到GDP的10%的這個說法，你認為呢？我方怎麼應對？"],["林部長佳龍：我想這個怎麼去解讀……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，請說。"],["林部長佳龍：好，就是所謂的保護費，他也不是用這個字啦，就是臺灣也要為自己的國防安全付費，我們也說我們也是有付費，因為臺灣跟美日的情況不一樣……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們的付費到目前為止，部長……"],["林部長佳龍：不是駐軍，不是說花它的預算。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席用實際的數字告訴你，2025年、明年的預算，我們增加了7.7%，六千多億。"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：國防預算，占我們的總體GDP的2.45%，如果誠如他說的要GDP的10%，等於26兆的2.6兆，那我方怎麼應對？請教。"],["林部長佳龍：好，也就是他希望我們再增加，我們也告訴他，我們過去有增加，未來也會再增加。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：未來還會增加？"],["林部長佳龍：至於說因為我們增加的這個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你認為川普上任了之後我們一定會增加？"],["林部長佳龍：我想隨著中共的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：至於增加的比例……"],["林部長佳龍：中共的軍事威脅越來越大，我們當然相對在國防的預算支出也會增加嘛！這是為了我們自己啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我再確認一件事情，部長，我們好好討論，也就是說川普上任之後，他之前所發表的言論，我們很緊張，如果說要達到GDP的10%，等於2.6兆，那絕對會排擠到我們的社福、我們的經濟等等，對不對？你認同，所以你剛才的說法就是川普上任之後，我們的國防預算應該會增加，是不是如此？"],["林部長佳龍：我們就持續在增加中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：持續在增加，所以會增加嘛！是不是？"],["林部長佳龍：對啊！明年的預算就增加，後面的趨勢也是如此。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：明年的預算增加7%嘛！後年的趨勢也是一直增加？"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，所以我要注意的就是說，我們不要排擠到，如果真的一直持續、一直持續地增加，當然這個是總統的職權，一直在增加的時候，如果真的達到10%，你認為會不會？"],["林部長佳龍：我想他的方向是希望增加，不是5%、10%的問題，其實川普包括他的副總統J.D. Vance，還有包括一些國安的幕僚……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：他提出了10%，我方會接受嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：沒有，他不是正式地提出來，那個是一個方向啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，就這個方向，我請部長你也詳實地去看川普時代臺美關係會怎麼樣的走向，當然你身為部長，這個是非常重要的工作，所以本席要請教，昨天外交部是不是有進府跟總統建議，在川普時代，你們討論到臺美關係，有沒有建議總統我們的方向必須是如何呢？有沒有？昨天有沒有討論？"],["林部長佳龍：有，我們本來週三也都有一些固定的會議，也有討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那其中有沒有建議總統說川普上任了，他的方向跟之前的政府是不太一樣的，而且對臺灣，目前川普的團隊裡頭以及現在的團隊，一定是不一樣的，有沒有建議總統要關注在哪一個部分呢？請教部長。"],["林部長佳龍：其實美臺的關係，一方面我想他重視選舉期間的一些訴求啦！投資美國……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席請教，昨天你有沒有告訴總統、建議總統，我們必須要關注……"],["林部長佳龍：我們有報告，也有在書面的報告上面……當然，總統也對外發表對川普總統的恭賀以外，對美臺關係的方向，他也有宣示嘛！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，也有宣示。請教2016年12月2日到2017年1月20日，川普在上一任的時候，我們蔡英文總統跟他打了電話、通了電話，這一次外交部會不會安排賴總統也跟川普準總統通電話？"],["林部長佳龍：我們目前並沒有這樣的安排。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好。接下來本席要請問的是，深化雙邊的經濟貿易關係，在整個臺美21世紀的貿易倡議當中非常的重要，這個倡議總共有11項，包括貿易便捷化、法規制定、農業、反貪污等等11項，臺美去年6月份的時候在華府簽署了首批的協定，有望在今年年底要生效，是不是？"],["林部長佳龍：對，first agreement今年底會生效。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問川普上臺之後，你們掌控的情資會不會有所影響，會不會？"],["林部長佳龍：第二階段因為已經談判到一個階段了……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們預計到年底要生效嘛！因為川普當選了，會不會有所影響？你們的掌控。"],["林部長佳龍：後面的二、三階段，我們必須因應他對貿易的主張，再做一些談判，目前第二階段大部分項目也已經有了共識。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：在外交部的立場，你認為在年底生效……是，就11項嘛！那你認為照目前談判以及川普當選，會不會影響到我們年底要生效的時間點？"],["林部長佳龍：年底生效是已經確定的啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是確定的，不會生變？"],["林部長佳龍：我想還在拜登政府任內，還沒有到新政府上任，這有分階段，我們在第二階段很多共識也已經有了，但是能不能把它完成，我們還要再跟新政府來談。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，我想這個是你負責任的談法，所以本席剛開始也希望我們好不容易在去年6月份所簽訂，今年年底一定務必要達陣成功，因為接下來所面臨的挑戰，跟現在的政府有很多的方向，似乎有所不同，所以我們必須……"],["林部長佳龍：我們要鞏固一些美臺關係在拜登總統任內已經有共識的項目，另外，美臺21世紀貿易倡議就是避免雙重課稅，我們也期待在美國大選完之後到交接期間，他們國會也是會開議，能夠把它順利的完成。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我要給你一句話，也就是說，當然我們要鞏固我們的安全，但是也不能讓人家予取予求、作為交易的籌碼，這個變化就請部長要隨時……"],["林部長佳龍：對，我們一定是以國家的安全跟人民的利益為依據啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，就這一句話，要照顧好我們中華民國。"],["林部長佳龍：有關於國防預算，除了盡我們該盡的自我防衛的決心……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你剛剛已經回答、告訴人民了，就是逐年會增加，我已經聽到了。"],["林部長佳龍：當然美國也要加速對我們軍購項目能夠如期交付。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝，請你掌控任何的狀態。","主席，我最後邀請一下陸委會好嗎？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長您請回，謝謝。副主委，我最後跟你討論一件事，我剛才在經濟委員會特別提出，我說川普時代來臨，出口的國家壓力很大，因為它是高關稅，這樣的情況之下，目前他宣示對大陸60%，對其他的國家10%到20%，請教我國目前的狀態、我們所會受影響的，郭部長直接回答本席說：對臺商影響最大。川普政府對大陸高關稅目前規劃是60%，你認為郭部長說的「對臺商影響最大」這一句話，你的解讀呢？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：我沒有仔細看郭部長講的話，但是假設美國真的對大陸的商品提高到60%的話，因為我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，他宣示了嘛！"],["梁副主任委員文傑：我們臺灣有很多高科技廠商是在大陸生產，然後出口到美國的，所以確實對臺灣在大陸投資的這些廠商會有影響，也會影響到這些廠商會不會繼續留在大陸生產的問題……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，所以陸委會……"],["梁副主任委員文傑：所以他可能會到印度、越南或是回到臺灣，都有可能。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不了解狀態是如何，但是身為陸委會，請你也務必看這個面向，怎麼樣協助我們的臺商。"],["梁副主任委員文傑：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為臺商在外也非常的辛苦，我們要怎麼樣協助他，郭部長有講了一句話，我再請外交部長回答我，好嗎？郭部長說什麼呢？他說因應這個方向，有一個方法，就是轉境外，比如說你在日本，因為它對大陸要課高關稅，所以請這些廠商回到大陸去，就沒有關稅的這個問題，我在這邊……"],["林部長佳龍：委員，有關這個政策，我們現在布局基本上就是怎麼樣去確保我們的領先優勢，然後布局全球，以半導體來講，我們現在也有一個晶片戰略啊！就是技術深耕臺灣，產線布局全球，我們不是被迫什麼China Plus One、Taiwan Plus One……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你沒有回答本席的議題，郭部長已經說了境外轉產的概念，在這種情況之下，因為你是外交部長，我要告訴你這個訊息，本席告訴你這個訊息，到時候我們的廠商要到世界各國去的時候，外交部要發揮你的能力，保護他們，好不好？謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：好，我舉一個例子跟委員分享，比如台積電投資德國，我們就希望這些歐洲國家能夠建立供應鏈韌性，臺灣政府也扮演了一個角色，類似這個例子；日本也是，美國也同樣，大概以這樣的方式，我們不要把供應鏈的重組當威脅，要當作我們布局全球的機會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是當威脅，你也不用緊張，本席告訴你的是……"],["林部長佳龍：至於說布局全球，臺商都已經在布局全球了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在外交部的立場要好好的保護我們臺商，協助他們，好不好？謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員，謝謝部長。","先休息5分鐘。","休息（11時47分）","繼續開會（11時53分）"],["主席：繼續開會。接下來我們請洪孟楷委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":364,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-11","speakers":["林憶君","王定宇","陳冠廷","黃仁","馬文君","林楚茵","徐巧芯","羅美玲","沈伯洋","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","賴士葆","李坤城","牛煦庭","羅智強","葉元之","陳永康"],"page_start":301,"meetingDate":["2024-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1139501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139501_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長、大陸委員會報告「美國總統大選後，對於美中台三邊關係及未來國際局勢發展\n之影響」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139501_00018"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}