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":"那西北客運轉運站這是市政府他自己用BOT方式在進行他沒有申請中央在轉運站上面的補助那他重點當然是說把重陽路這些國道客運放在那邊不是補助的問題而已喔你要提醒他啊西北市政府他不能夠閉門召軍全台灣最擁擠的車路道已經在五股交流道那你要跟他中盤考慮我也不是一定反對"},{"start":2677.136,"end":2701.907,"text":"但是你裝盤考慮你又把這麼多的交通動線又移到新莊來然後新莊來一定從五股上交流道嘛不然你新莊沒有其他的交流道所以這一部分你要提醒他說你要一併考慮在內我們要來提醒雖然他是自己辦理的案子那就交通就尤其他跟五股交流道關係密切以後他就上下嘛這部分我們來提醒整個交通的這些"},{"start":2703.448,"end":2719.239,"text":"相關的規劃啦、交通維持等等我們請...是,因為我擔心我們這麼努力做了一點點小小的改善一部分不能夠達到完成大家的理想那你現在是雪上加霜又增加他的負擔這一方面要綜合考慮或是有其他的"},{"start":2719.94,"end":2721.661,"text":"所以兩方面都有困難考慮了"},{"start":2737.691,"end":2765.828,"text":"第二個重要的交通建設我們講到的是我們臺65線新庄征社南向的第二個出口這個也是我很注重的拜託要跟新北市政府的溝通我知道現在已經基本上同意了可能今年就要發報室做了可是已經通過現在做中規要加油再來就是我們這個泰山板橋捷運輕軌的這個支線我叫他做後港西勝支線那"},{"start":2767.284,"end":2779.586,"text":"之前選前部長會去跟你開過幾次會你也都贊成然後甚至提出一些方案是走塔留坑溪跟潭堤溝的這個高架坐路廊"},{"start":2780.504,"end":2805.114,"text":"結果現在新北市政府你丟給他研究他的研究結果說要開一個30米的計畫道路開玩笑我們那邊的這個房子全部都已經蓋好了你要30米的計畫道路你要去猜誰的房子那要猜多少房子所以你沒有好好的做行政指導結果他自己閉門造局弄了一個根本就跟我希望的目標跟我們原來談好的東西越來越遠的東西啊"},{"start":2806.801,"end":2811.107,"text":"這一點是不是很遺憾?是不是你要跟他加強溝通?我們希望的是走"},{"start":2812.421,"end":2812.921,"text":"他目前就答應預留了。"},{"start":2874.469,"end":2879.013,"text":"謝謝吳委員秉立的質詢。接下來我們請丁委員學中質詢。麻煩請陳院長備詢,謝謝。"},{"start":2899.722,"end":2915.147,"text":"委員歐欣妮,董事長有事嗎?市長,我剛才看到三個案例。第一次當候委員的時候,我做代表為主席的運動社會院議長副委員的時候,你有去幹什麼?第二次就是我做定任的時候,我們黨額外領,那個天文朝,"},{"start":2922.749,"end":2933.018,"text":"還在討論的時候,你有沒有去關心?是,我也在想,你也在記得?對,三個月27時再回家啦。知道說上禮拜我們議長啦,針對到我們這個瘦肉清,以及我們這個大陸漁船這兩航宿航,有可能讓我們一些我們立院的一些同事,"},{"start":2946.751,"end":2963.541,"text":"言語上有一些比較衝動,我知道上禮拜會在四百五、四十多,所以我們今天用開講的方式,這樣好不好?我一向親民氣和,我也覺得委員很重視婚禮的整個發展。"},{"start":2970.345,"end":2978.908,"text":"對啊,我在這,就要探這個機會啦,就要這陣子這個瘦肉精的工作,我會探這個機會來行銷到我們婚姻的雲翔珠,我們婚姻雲翔珠是當我們這裡用一戶大家用先進的技術,來飼養出來我們這裡最健康的豬,而且我們婚姻受到我們中美政權領導之時,我們也是全國第一的"},{"start":2999.616,"end":3003.838,"text":"當非洲豬瘟疫情頭頂,我們第一次拒絕用處理來刺激的第一次。所以確實有來騷動我們的非洲豬瘟,這應該大家都了解。"},{"start":3017.603,"end":3028.529,"text":"我相信院長對我們中內省館長的施政應該是這樣,我們知道了。對,婚姻的主任和婚姻政府在對主任的照顧,我都有感覺到很認真、很努力,也做得很好。像你這麼寫的,因為這真的是高規格的養豬的產業。"},{"start":3039.654,"end":3063.74,"text":"是,感謝我們議長的領導,啊,剛好這早上這個收入金這個開放,我們台中市政府收入錢,我們中央的想法是沒有一樣的,啊,我可以跟你建議一項,因為我不相信說台中,它是私產地,我不相信,我相信議長也不相信,我也不相信我們國家會建這個收入金的資料,未來給我們的資料,"},{"start":3065.24,"end":3065.44,"text":"主席"},{"start":3087.67,"end":3088.15,"text":"這是你的建議啦齁?"},{"start":3109.196,"end":3128.589,"text":"因為我們在檢查地霸的DNA就是要看這是有對來的地霸但是現在台中市政府檢驗的那塊地霸實際上就是在我們台灣出的企業地那裡設的,都是台灣地設的,所以說沒關係啊沒關係,這個院長,我知道院長,我們一定是這個想法但是我們要讓人了解到這個意願"},{"start":3139.036,"end":3139.462,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":3139.642,"end":3155.165,"text":"我們想用這個,當然說我們台灣設立的地方,我們也相信啊,但是辣口的很多人我們相信啊,我們相信,我們要讓人相信,我們就是來做這個動作,大家就來相信,為什麼我要跟你說這個呢?因為當年我們有進口,我會知道那個新聞過的啦,我們有進口到一些法規黨的這個微博地啦,說什麼消息啦,結果啦,讓我們的食安單位查到是怎樣?"},{"start":3169.187,"end":3179.473,"text":"以分作義大利主、義大利主分作港大的地﹑切片、發貨規範及其民眾﹑讓我們的民眾去買東西吃。這件事我相信議長你也知道。所以我會說"},{"start":3184.836,"end":3196.899,"text":"：一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十"},{"start":3207.342,"end":3215.85,"text":"我跟委員報告,你的建議是一個很好的,可以說那塊地也到底是台灣的地,還是美國地,還是外國地。但是因為我們台灣,我們現在的土地、市場、土宅、分層、市場"},{"start":3227.5,"end":3230.402,"text":"議長所說的我都認同,我都認同,我們台灣在整個的留情安全的這個適用方式,我都認同,但是就是有出問題。"},{"start":3254.577,"end":3259.723,"text":"有出問題,我們是針對問題來解決。這五分鐘麻煩議長在研議一下。這不是重點,重點我是要介紹我們雲林的影響組。議員說,如果台中的你KFD"},{"start":3272.058,"end":3283.837,"text":"已經發生這個問題了,我們想可以來參考我們訓練的用電腦所取出來的這個地方的三分,我相信一定會比較好。好來,我現在訓練"},{"start":3286.741,"end":3289.764,"text":"我相信這幾年來,我們中央立委比較慷慨去講到的議題,也有一些農運較在意的問題,我們婚姻觀察有六成。"},{"start":3309.701,"end":3325.469,"text":"臨時討論會議"},{"start":3326.085,"end":3333.409,"text":"現在面對這麼多種的問題﹖黨軍農民遇到農藥這塊這麼堅持在刮手中﹖所以當天我們高軍委員有去講到,我們這個公糧收購的問題,不知道我們院長你的感覺如何?"},{"start":3345.334,"end":3347.576,"text":"今天委員對我們農民的關心"},{"start":3364.571,"end":3379.378,"text":"我相信大家都希望說我們中央有做得更好的收入,這是我們都一定要想的。不過對於公牛來的,我們一年要蓋基準,我們一百年那時候的經驗,一百年那時候蓋3戶跟2戶的香港匯,結果5戶蓋下去以後,本來的中足的面積,本來差不多24萬公頃變成27萬公頃。"},{"start":3389.142,"end":3398.606,"text":"結果事實上說,我們現在的公牛外面的收貨價格已經降低下去,因為我們現在公牛的收貨只有減30%而已,剩下70%都是我們一些私人的收貨的紐結,所以我們是希望說,私人收的紐結會越來越高。"},{"start":3411.372,"end":3422.983,"text":"所以我們現在用我們會倒座四選三的時候,我們現在在控制,我們把地方的面積控制到23萬至24萬公頃。而這個23萬至24萬公頃的水準裡面,我們的樹林的收入已經到每百台幣一千三百塊了。已經超過了我們的...進走面積我們有辦法控制嗎?"},{"start":3434.514,"end":3450.188,"text":"以我們現在的倒座四選三,以及灌溉輪座的方式,可以控制到23至24。你現在說公民的介紹都優廣起來的時候,很多人都伺候去請,伺候去請的時候,面積就優廣起來以後,就降低了。"},{"start":3456.893,"end":3468.175,"text":"我們不是每一塊地都有適合進水中,不是這樣,如果水溫比較強烈的土地,他們怎麼知道進水中。所以這個國分,要怎麼來控制這個量,可能我們都要保證,我們可能也是有辦法來控制這個範圍,這個進水中的範圍。"},{"start":3483.138,"end":3494.588,"text":"因為為什麼?我們已經12年沒有調整了。這12年當中,我們薪水有1萬7千多塊基金薪水。1萬7千多調整到現在已經2萬7千多了。我們所謂不計算法是已經調整14個月了。當然我們這個農園,因為你要知道,牛也起雞。牛也起雞,整體的工資也起雞。"},{"start":3509.821,"end":3531.067,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":3531.167,"end":3536.791,"text":"我跟委員報告,我們一定會去做一個整體的規劃,讓我們中央裡面的事業比較高,以今年的,今年的利益做的時候"},{"start":3549.76,"end":3551.941,"text":"我們會有一個更好的一個評估"},{"start":3570.111,"end":3585.475,"text":"一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、"},{"start":3589.136,"end":3590.357,"text":"我相信我相信"},{"start":3610.345,"end":3619.849,"text":"否定你臨來的作為都非常困難,或是困難你臨來,所以有多年國會,將對我們政府進行的推動,我也都非常認同。但是我知道啦,你們可能5201,有可能你們就換這位,我也知道,但是當你們520進行,"},{"start":3632.074,"end":3654.354,"text":"您有辦法給我們一個委員卡的一個答案嗎?我希望給我們農業部來整位。我要向委員報告因為接近老總統他還是會怕到這個小英總統的落選。所以說我們的施政一定是會有連續的。更重要的就是說這個"},{"start":3655.755,"end":3656.435,"text":"我們可以逐年慢慢來調整,因為我們現在有錢。"},{"start":3677.585,"end":3702.134,"text":"我們有在這個會議裏面,我們逐年逐一來調整啊,製造方法說,我們政府,我們當初總統的政府,他們要努力啊,進行,讓我們農民,登記以來支持我們民進黨,這些農民,讓他們有得力度的上當,讓他們一個民進黨的那個感覺。對啊,當你們要努力進行,你們有沒有,你們要調整就好了。"},{"start":3703.995,"end":3713.482,"text":"我會認真來顧及認真來發表,希望能夠達到這個委員的要求。對啦,因為你有可能到有可能,但是我還有4年的時間。這件事我一定會委託各位,委託我們農民的管理我絕對會委託各位。還有一項,我們這個天然災害保守條例,我們這個條例到現在已經30多年了。"},{"start":3733.976,"end":3760.174,"text":"其中有經過差不多將近十個月的修改內容,每一項有修改的就是人工勘栽。人工勘栽,我們現在風太當時要結成,我們氣候局都將要掉下去。風太當時要造成一項,我們氣候局也都了解。風速大大,火水流大大,我們氣候局也都將要掉下去。"},{"start":3763.456,"end":3771.046,"text":"我們現在的論壇,我們這個論壇,照你講這個天然災害,我們不能再用這個零工砍災。我在這裡要跟佛教請教一下,叫你去看那區分,那區分裏面說損失20%,你看得出來嗎?"},{"start":3780.799,"end":3791.903,"text":"我向委員報告,第一點就是說,現在的規定是20%都是公所及街上的專家去看,看在20%之下。我向委員報告,我們現在已經有用開發一種用手機及拍照的部分,及配合無人機去勘災的部分來協助這個人工的勘災。"},{"start":3803.146,"end":3804.367,"text":"所以我直接要跟大家報告"},{"start":3825.768,"end":3848.877,"text":"其實我們本人都人,他們不是年尾要報仇,不是這樣,但是人遇到,我們現在萬物的企業,好像這個農作物介紹沒有穩定的狀況,派人去遇到我們這個天然災害,我們中央教你講要重擁、重寬、重建的方式,來對抗我們這個天然災害過程的一個行動。"},{"start":3853.913,"end":3876.624,"text":"不是說我跟你們報告,我們去年剛好遭到小選颱風你知道嗎?小選颱風全國性,我們這個農村府受損都很嚴重。當小選颱風走行之後,兄弟,我們十幾個車公來走行這個小選颱風的財海,八十一位要在偏行公共活動。"},{"start":3878.945,"end":3885.21,"text":"我看我跟委員報告,那小選颱風因為他的檢控,檢控出來有一些延遲性的受損。就是說你當下看不出來說他有受損,不過你差不多一禮拜、兩禮拜以後,他才會慢慢地打起來。"},{"start":3900.402,"end":3910.468,"text":"所以這個小選臺方是比較特例的,就是說有緣分的部分會造成一些延遲性的災損。所以我現在在說的就是這樣,就是這樣,我們既然我們了解到我們這次的方針有去造成到我們這個天然災害,還有一項臨間抗災,我現在在說臨間抗災就是"},{"start":3924.956,"end":3939.401,"text":"他們的工作是做第一層第一層來推我們農業部來代管到收集我們這些農民的資料。是。是,他先要再去看生意順勢到20%才可以推他們上去,先這樣。"},{"start":3939.901,"end":3963.475,"text":"我跟委員報告,現在稍後有改革,就是說若有一些天然災害來的時候,我們的試驗單位會第一層去看,你若看有一些普遍性的災害的時候,我們農業部就主動公告,就不用叫地方政府來申請再來公告,這個會加快大概5天的時間。那是說基中有可能發生更加嚴重的啦,我是希望啦,"},{"start":3966.817,"end":3989.189,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":3989.309,"end":4003.885,"text":"瞭解到這個區域上只要放縮、補水量,若有特徵,我們這個天然災的補助會有一個條例,我們先用全面上全面來補助。這樣去做成就農民和基層公所的販輸領域的給分。你可知道這個小錢颱風,"},{"start":4009.051,"end":4012.713,"text":"這次小園颱風剛好遇到孫綺綺啦,剛好遇到孫綺綺,既然有發動人、政黨、農民去講掃、要控議,講講掃都在這個在下過程中不犯過,是講掃都要照我們農業部的規定來做。"},{"start":4028.208,"end":4029.529,"text":"是不是這樣?"},{"start":4029.529,"end":4048.096,"text":"了解,對啊。對啊,既然我們公訴對到我們論壇的規定,他們盡忠職守,他們非常認真照我們的規定去做,既然讓人來論壇,會讓人來做這個選舉、選舉的一個操作,我們要把論壇做小的,說什麼事都要在公訴啊,公訴是要我負責的論壇,"},{"start":4055.1,"end":4063.509,"text":"用這個整體操作來讓那些農民這樣來移農那些農民讓那些農民那些社會在那裡種來種去,這樣不對啦!我覺得這樣不對啦!未來啦!我競合中啦!我未來我不會去做這個事情,但是我希望"},{"start":4070.919,"end":4089.532,"text":"我希望,我們對這個天然災的保守條例,一定要事實來做修改。一定要事實來做修改,不可以再用這個人工勘測,我們中央決定的政策,我們中央自己來發布,我們中央來承擔。如果有什麼考慮,在地上合同來承擔,這樣好不好?"},{"start":4091.713,"end":4104.321,"text":"我向委員報告我們的天然災害救助方法一直在滾動修改在第一點第二點就是說我們現在已經盡量減少一些人工勘災已經目前已經差不多夠了因為有一些人工勘災用氣象參數的"},{"start":4109.625,"end":4124.131,"text":"他要有一些比較客觀的科學數據啦,就是說像三百億,你如果超過十多、二十四點鐘的人,你就不用看啦。我就知道說他一定是我們挑起的。所以每一個作物,他對運動、對風俗都有影響。這個數據如果我們有抓到的話,我們就有用。"},{"start":4127.512,"end":4135.255,"text":"會用科學的氣象參數來處理,就不用勘測啊。所以這是一步一步這樣處理的,我會盡量...希望啦,對啦,希望,保證我們可以教說,我們現在先進的科技的技術,可以好好來運用,我們現在就都一直在說農業智慧,"},{"start":4147.68,"end":4161.591,"text":"科技、科技農業、科技漁業,我們就一直開始一直在推廣這啊。有什麼就給他這個勘測,就要組成農園和基層工作人員,組成協同的一個糾紛。這真的,我做定調起來我會知道,那真的遇到的時候,有時候農園的人員和工作分數人員的人員完全不同。"},{"start":4171.724,"end":4179.335,"text":"對呀,當然他們是有他的管理,但是那個公所的管事人員,他是有的來修緩。"},{"start":4180.461,"end":4192.79,"text":"所以我們要顧到農民的權利,我們要顧到我們官方的這個法令,這個法令的事情。這真的造成了很大的困擾。所以我們如果用這個科技來看齋,專研型的實施,不管黨黨領、市領裡面用這個科技看齋,專研型實施絕對有很大的困擾。而且還有發展到我們的從事從寬從幼。"},{"start":4209.501,"end":4219.85,"text":"的這個過程的一個要領。我也是要說,我們農民用農藥保險啦,因為農藥保險都不用勘測啦,那到時候看你的生意,沒有,現在有27項的平衡,54張的保單,啊用這些都不用勘測,你到時候三年紀律就不會了。"},{"start":4233.281,"end":4246.729,"text":"好,這個過分再拜託我們農業部再繼續嚴厲,我們是要持續的進步,我們不要在原地塌附,這樣好不好?好,再來針對我們這個水利費的過分啦,水利費現在稍等要公佑啦,我們在之前我們都聽到很多聲音,以前水利費每一年都有兩個月的經費,可以下去給我們農民修繕,他們的農水囉,都可以修繕農水囉,現在稍等要公佑,"},{"start":4261.357,"end":4274.322,"text":"你能贏喔,自己開車,我們不要再整頓水庫,都不用水庫人員,你自己開車去我們訓練的處理站看。我們那裡的員工想贏贏,大家贏贏有事情好做。而且怎樣?你跟他們說過去只要水路、水海、熱水走,跟我們處理站說,我們處理站那裡就有辦法發揮到他們的共鳴聲,我相信來協助的都人。現在不是,現在都沒有。"},{"start":4290.228,"end":4301.093,"text":"我向委員報告,你剛才說的經費從過去水利費時代到現在我們農水水的時代,那個經費從40幾億變成每年127億,在第一天,我們的經費增加在那裡灌輸增加,在你的部分就是說,你剛才說的這些劇毒的施策...當我們那裡啦,我們那裡啦,我們沿海的十一鄉鎮啦,都聽到了啦,說的是怎樣,你水路啦,我做,"},{"start":4316.823,"end":4326.031,"text":"就要聽一個人的話,要去怪討一個人。沒有,這個完全不是事實,我們有感覺啊。我相信有事實,未來會不會這樣發生?會這樣發生,你未來將對我們分明關這個農水路的改善,你會怎樣讓我們有辦法適度、比較多資源來改善我們的農水路?"},{"start":4341.363,"end":4344.925,"text":"我知你講的這些我都知道啦。阿未來呢?未來主委會更多嗎?"},{"start":4367.254,"end":4396.193,"text":"我剛才講的齁,現在他主要計算的水利額是在40幾億,現在變27億,平均一年一百27億,另外我們有意好特別預算齁。那個,那個否定齁,你講的,均在這裡以前這是全國性還是只有婚姻官而已啊?喔,全國性的。全國性婚姻官,你知道婚婦有多少?沒有,這個分配性就是看各地方的郡路要不要修理,齁,這個會去,我們每年都會有,有統計啦,每個地區沒什麼工啦。"},{"start":4397.536,"end":4397.556,"text":"趙國昌議員"},{"start":4405.014,"end":4416.603,"text":"未來只要我們分明館只要這個農水路的輸給有輸給給予補給我希望我們國庭出境都要轉入台北我會軍心來幫你拜託這個補份再拜託一下再來我要請教議長我們現在是運營比較重要還是廠商的利益比較重要?"},{"start":4432.875,"end":4445.207,"text":"我認為兩邊都要堅固,尤其是整個國家的發展,我們有需要政府和民間做的來合作。我現在要跟議長報告的就是這樣,我們現在考五項這個社區的選擇,這個選擇。"},{"start":4454.206,"end":4455.946,"text":"臨時提案時間臨時提案時間臨時提案時間臨時提案時間"},{"start":4483.713,"end":4489.318,"text":"對這件案件來做最重要的一個抗議。還有一項,我聽過說假地開雙人會以地來施工,政府臨庭以假地開雙人會以地施工。"},{"start":4506.372,"end":4515.499,"text":"我跟委員報告他確實已經開了兩次的說明會那對地方的這些疑慮其實也都有說明那變電站這個環境的風險"},{"start":4520.543,"end":4541.548,"text":"反省環境風險但是探視他的程序就是有不符合啊。假定開會議定是說當天我到這裏的人我完全不知道要做這件事。結果是去跟六公里以外的政壇去開小園會。那些小園會那些人說出事去聰明莫名其妙去聰明聰聰的。回來我們這政壇的人完全沒人去。這樣就尊崇。"},{"start":4545.971,"end":4555.482,"text":"這樣可以遵守嗎?我們要確定他的說明會開到有合法嗎?就是這樣怎麼會有合法?這樣就是完整會議合法啊!當我們台灣比較好要做的工作,叫你說你要來說明給我知道說你這是要做什麼未來用途是要做什麼,做起來會怎麼樣?"},{"start":4566.795,"end":4567.335,"text":"我感覺..."},{"start":4589.27,"end":4607.962,"text":"相信,相信,我們的居民有他們的管理,跟這屆議員在擴充啦。我相信,我相信保證這案你互相了解。因為發展這個再生能源,讓綠電更多,我們當然是支持。我們文明館,文明文明館是一個很大的館,現在我們整個考核,"},{"start":4616.087,"end":4625.171,"text":"因為如果是在我們原來公園區那邊,那只是公園區的發展。沒有啦,你用一個像是地地律啦,福利跟專區啦,只要用這個說法就給予會很少人了。我只要你說,欸不對,只要你說你是要去兜風,你就去兜風回坑喔。"},{"start":4643.78,"end":4650.942,"text":"我跟委員補講,你剛才說的這個,我們的專區裡面,漁電工程裡面,兩萬九百五千,基中有在做光電的我們兩千幾公頃而已,沒有到兩萬幾。第二點,你剛才說的滴滴地區裡面有兩千一百六十二公頃,基中有大概六百幾公頃去做漁電工程,就是做這個光電的地方。所以不是說所有的東西都去做這個。"},{"start":4673.772,"end":4682.363,"text":"所以我現在要講的意思說,我們不要只想著我們要做什麼,我們就要做什麼。你要去地方,去了解地方的人。"},{"start":4683.729,"end":4699.095,"text":"他們對我們這個東西他們有認同喔,而且我們管政府他們對地方比較了解阿,公訴對地方比較了解,我們只要我們更強,我們希望這個地方會做什麼,我們可以找管政府找地方公訴,做到去開庭,在街頭訪問一個人道。"},{"start":4724.603,"end":4731.687,"text":"謝謝丁委員學中的質詢。接下來我們請登記第十位黃委員三三質詢。"},{"start":4746.465,"end":4769.9,"text":"好的請院長麻煩請陳院長備詢黃委員長恭喜你來回任這個立委謝謝院長我想今天是我第一次在立法院質詢我想問一下院長人民的生命財產大概是你最重要的任務了吧是"},{"start":4770.691,"end":4786.371,"text":"人民的生命財產安全包括前幾天大家爭執的非常多的食品安全當然也有財產上的安全所以院長您也當過副總統那現在是行政院長您覺得這8年來台灣是不是已經成為詐騙之島"},{"start":4789.034,"end":4814.583,"text":"確實全世界的詐騙的趨勢都有在增加特別是在COVID-19的這個期間那如果根據國際相關的組織的這個發布呢在已開發國家當中都受到詐騙的困擾台灣也不例外台灣的狀況應該是更嚴重你就是說沒有如果最嚴重的情形是新加坡新加坡好那當然我們不要跟他比差啦但是所有的台灣人應該都接過詐騙電話您接過嗎"},{"start":4817.126,"end":4843.94,"text":"我沒有,因為我比較忙,很少接電話。大概只要是正常人都有接過詐騙,或者是相關的訊息,或者是自己的親朋好友大概都有詐騙的經驗。所以詐騙在臺灣,今天部長在旁邊,臺灣的詐騙狀況法務部你覺得你滿意嗎?我們還有努力的空間。原因是什麼?為什麼這麼多,然後你還有努力的空間?"},{"start":4845.468,"end":4867.998,"text":"因為每一次都有新興的一個詐騙的手法那我們一定要針對他們新興的手法就是說詐騙的手法太新了新到我們跟不上是嗎等我們發現的時候我們就要擬進一個具體的一個做法來因應對部長我想臺灣是詐騙之島這個名字並不好聽第二個"},{"start":4872.004,"end":4896.589,"text":"詐騙的猖獗已經成為百姓的痛點尤其是剛剛過去的總統大選其實每一個陣營包括更多的相關的人包括立法院都一樣非常重視這件事情因為這是剛剛講的人民的財產安全人民有免於恐懼的自由所以詐騙、猖獗不應該成為臺灣政府的代名詞所以"},{"start":4897.473,"end":4920.684,"text":"的數量,院長可以看一下這個數字。這數字非常的驚人。其實在105年到現在,就是蔡英文總統上任之後,其實8年期間,8年的成長率,從原來的大概每一年是23000多件,一直到112年大概37000件。它的數量不斷的飆升,然後金額從"},{"start":4922.226,"end":4932.513,"text":"幾十億三四十億到五六十億現在已經到八十八億所以院長這個數字是尤其是這三年不知道為什麼這三年特別的嚴重"},{"start":4933.298,"end":4959.876,"text":"所以委員我剛才才跟你講說如果按照國際的這個狀況來看全世界都是這個趨勢那我們的這個上升的趨勢大概是在增加60%吧其他國家是有增加但是我要跟委員說明的是在這個詐騙的金額確實是有增加但是我們在打詐的努力當中我們追回來的這一些金額還有在這個銀行的欄櫃的金額大概有一筆一百"},{"start":4962.278,"end":4964.519,"text":"昨天我們開過記者會,我想部長大概也看到了,就是"},{"start":4988.295,"end":5010.107,"text":"電信詐欺3年之內成長了360%,也就是說檢察署的人力負擔真的是相當重。第二個它的數量從34000件漲到16萬件,這個比例這是非正常的狀況。所以就所謂電信詐欺目前大概是台灣最大宗的一塊,對吧?猜不著。"},{"start":5011.489,"end":5027.587,"text":"謝謝委員的關心那檢察官助理去年行政院也支持我們有一百名的檢察官助理來幫忙打詐那而且今年又答應給我們150名所以對檢察官這個打詐的效率來講一定會提升的"},{"start":5028.325,"end":5057.612,"text":"所以檢察官助理是在民國88年其實就有提案了但是當時只通過了法官助理還有檢察事務館那20多年來檢察官助理其實在檢改包括所謂的檢改團體他們一直都在主張那現在打詐不管是打詐也好或者是其他的刑事偵查犯罪也好其實相對檢察官的壓力是非常大的所以檢察官助理目前為止入法了沒"},{"start":5058.41,"end":5059.73,"text":"目前我們是行政上先來加強他們"},{"start":5087.495,"end":5113.336,"text":"所以院長明年113年明年還會有繼續給他們預算嗎?現在100個嘛還要再給他們150個對250個對所以但是什麼時候要入法?你什麼時候要送到立法院來?我想入法就像剛才我們部長講的嘛我們也曾經有過這樣的努力那我們會來研議以後來看看這樣的一個合適性當然需要我們來開相關的"},{"start":5116.019,"end":5122.734,"text":"您的看守時間到520,您能不能在你任期內把這個案子送到立法院來?"},{"start":5124.772,"end":5147.206,"text":"應該可以吧,應該都會寫那麼久了。是,我們馬上提出來,那希望委員能夠大力支持。我們會支持,而且我們希望你們盡快送進來,能夠在院長卸任的時候留下這個最重要的一個任務。不過跟委員說明,因為法院組織法是司法院所主管的法規,那會受到司法院的耽擱,不過委員提案了,當然我們盡快。"},{"start":5148.446,"end":5171.701,"text":"如果他是重要的就不應該受到耽擱。如果司法院要耽擱就請司法院快一點表示意見。而不是我們把責任推給司法院。部長這是你的責任。所以司法院如果他有更多...如果要做就不會有人耽擱。"},{"start":5173.042,"end":5190.348,"text":"所以我們要好好跟他溝通,了解他們如果要耽擱的理由在哪裡。 院長,如果這個案子之前已經編了預算,也給了100個表示他是重要的,接下去你要再給150個表示他非常的重要,但是我們現在還在說要通過律師法院溝通,那行政院的立場是?"},{"start":5191.528,"end":5210.523,"text":"事情的解決有兩個嘛一個就是立法嘛另外一個就是說從行政的角度嘛行政院的角度我們就先給他充實他的人力我需要的是時間啦我想大家都沒有爭議我現在就是時間了還要有司法院有三個院要一起來努力啦所以我才說嘛這是您如果假設您520"},{"start":5211.664,"end":5215.167,"text":"我當然樂觀其成我當然樂觀其成我盡力來追討我盡力所以我希望打詐不會只有一個打詐辦公室打詐"},{"start":5237.29,"end":5259.357,"text":"是全民一起。第二個,要給他武器,要給他人力。好,我們會。委員那個打仗不是只有打仗辦公室,打仗辦公室是coordinate,內政部、法務部、通常會議、法會。人民在看你的決心,人民在看你的做法。第二個,要給他充足的人力跟設備,他才能夠讓台灣脫離所謂的詐騙指導的惡名。我們有決心。"},{"start":5264.218,"end":5276.329,"text":"院長我們也希望你在會期520之前完成這件事好下一個問題是稅制改革我想院長您也在行政院非常久針對整個財政狀況台灣的財政狀況您覺得狀況如何"},{"start":5280.506,"end":5307.101,"text":"我覺得臺灣從COVID-19開始以後再加上全世界的這個供應鏈的改變臺灣的經濟成長在這幾年確實是比以往來說來得好很多而且說出盈餘委員可能也知道從2017年開始就是正的然後最近幾年都到3000億財政狀況是相當不錯因為出口也很好然後經濟發展也不錯但是"},{"start":5307.941,"end":5337.236,"text":"台灣針對所謂的稅制改革其實從蔡政府上任之後一直提出有一些稅務需要改我這邊列出來就是長期來大家在討論的叫做娛樂稅、貨物稅、印花稅我還記得很清楚蘇貞昌院長的時候在2019年大力說要廢除印花稅我當時代表台北市政府來立法院跟相關的單位陳情因為印花稅是重要的地方稅"},{"start":5338.194,"end":5358.762,"text":"如果要取消不是不可以而且它也是一個比較落後的稅制但是中央在稅制改革上面針對娛樂稅貨物稅還有印花稅這種已經不合時的稅制它的改革一直有提出來但是到現在為止沒有看到結果"},{"start":5361.149,"end":5387.115,"text":"八年的狀況是怎樣咧?你要不要告訴我一下咧?是不是跟委員說明一下印花稅的部分大概一年收取是170億是地方政府非常重要的一個稅源那這個部分呢我們也邀請地方政府來過開會他們都認為說這個部分是他們很重要的稅源所以他們不贊成廢除地方政府不是不贊成地方政府是需要有替代裁員"},{"start":5387.935,"end":5413.3,"text":"要有替代財源但是雖然是有替代財源對他們來說這個還是財政制度很重要這是因為地方稅為什麼蘇院長在沒有經過審慎思考的時候就說要廢呢那我想另外委員提到就是說你要回答我的問題啊是你們要廢的理由是什麼因為它是一個不合時宜的稅制對吧當然它有一定的一個時間但目前來說還是因為它是1934年民國23年時候訂的法是"},{"start":5416.641,"end":5441.243,"text":"那是一個非常落後的稅制。第二個娛樂稅的部分以前它是一種奢侈一種高消費但是現在的娛樂稅它已經是電影演唱會球賽已經是人民的基本的日常生活它沒有什麼特別的特別的高消費第三個是貨物稅貨物稅是嚴重的違反所謂的租稅的中立性不是嗎"},{"start":5441.954,"end":5445.057,"text":"我現在就是不知道我沒有時間給你講太多我的意思說這三個要檢討檢討了八年檢討出什麼東西來"},{"start":5467.159,"end":5471.181,"text":"我直接要問的是八年的部分的癥結在於我們從來沒有好好檢討過剛剛講的這些稅如果要取消它的替代財源是在哪裡?"},{"start":5489.65,"end":5519.005,"text":"沒有想過替代裁員有找到替代裁員了嗎還是還繼續在研議中還是之後說要廢但是反正沒有替代裁員我們就隨便說說就好我想任何財稅的改革中央地方都需要一起來研議然後各界也需要來講所以當時在廢印發稅的時候沒有跟地方政府討論就直接說要廢除所以我們當時臺北市政府才要帶人到立法院"},{"start":5519.905,"end":5521.187,"text":"所以稅制改革需要時間。"},{"start":5533.753,"end":5551.904,"text":"應該要檢討,但是需要溝通跟具體的作為。院長,這個爭解就是,執政8年檢討的結果目前還沒看到。第二個,你可不可以給我一個具體的調整的方向,還有影響程度的跟調整的角度。所以在這8年來我們有很多稅制的改革。"},{"start":5557.467,"end":5558.829,"text":"我今天的要求就是既然討論這麼久檢討的方向給我一個時間表"},{"start":5573.732,"end":5601.873,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分我們都有做檢討就是如同剛剛委員說要尊重地方政府的意見所以地方政府的意見是非常的分歧重視找替代財源他也認為這個破壞了他的財政自主因為他是地方稅他就要還有自主權我明白所以我們在幫你找替代財源接下去我要跟你說的是10年前蔡總統在他的10年政綱說要建立綠色的稅制2011年他其實就提出來所謂綠色稅制"},{"start":5603.237,"end":5605.439,"text":"綠色的稅制接下去我們現在2024了綠色稅制要在"},{"start":5634.435,"end":5658.966,"text":"2026歐盟要進行相關的碳稅的之前,我們現在就必須要準備。兩位同意嗎?委員這個部分已經在今年開始在環境部的部分依照氣變法已經開始徵收碳稅。我們現在的氣候變遷法是碳稅先行,碳稅再慢慢過渡。但事實上在歐盟大概2026就到了,現在已經2024了。"},{"start":5660.387,"end":5674.188,"text":"然後碳費的部分他其實並不是所謂的大家都有他是可能比較特殊的大的企業第二個他不是全民第三個最重要的是他可能沒有辦法接軌國際是吧"},{"start":5675.837,"end":5676.377,"text":"台灣政府必須針對碳稅開始做因應了。"},{"start":5704.131,"end":5728.968,"text":"因為他將會衝擊產業的出口最重要的是我們透過碳費大概很難引導人民在生活上面做一些改變但是如果碳稅全民都必須要配合的話這個可能會是將來臺灣可以面對氣候變遷還有所謂的產業轉型才能夠一次到位也就碳費先行碳稅"},{"start":5730.838,"end":5733.18,"text":"我們也只有兩年的時間這個時間不可能再讓大家滿滿演繹"},{"start":5759.878,"end":5779.625,"text":"所以我的意思是說剛剛講的替代裁員、判稅會是你的替代裁員的考慮的對象之一。這個方式現在就必須要痛定思痛。有時候比較先進的立法會造成一時的痛苦,但是它可以引力人民生活習慣的改變。"},{"start":5781.159,"end":5781.639,"text":"三位同意嗎?"},{"start":5809.906,"end":5812.428,"text":"我現在給你兩個建議嘛。第一個反正我們替代財源要漲。"},{"start":5830.265,"end":5832.267,"text":"這是我覺得在您的看守期間可以把這個方向明確的指出來。"},{"start":5855.209,"end":5870.454,"text":"還有我們環境部也是一個非常重要的任務。市部長要不要講一下呢?非常謝謝黃委員的建議。事實上我們跟財政部莊部長這邊都有保持密切的聯繫。就如同剛剛黃委員所提到的"},{"start":5870.954,"end":5876.015,"text":"所以我說嘛就是其實要做都要先溝通所以這是一個很重要的過程"},{"start":5893.22,"end":5915.181,"text":"那重點是政治的核心真的是執行力啦在這邊要跟院長抱怨一下我們臺北市在2022年其實就6月份就把淨零排放的管理自治條例送到行政院等於是在兩年多前我們就送過來光在行政院合併的過程大概就一年半"},{"start":5916.382,"end":5937.233,"text":"這個裡面有非常多所謂淨零碳排的路徑,包括可能將來在台北市的比如說旅館,它就不可以再放所謂的一次性的用品。類似這樣的東西是需要跟民間溝通的。也就是說一個法律的推展,它必須要事先而且要提早跟企業跟市民來過溝通。"},{"start":5938.584,"end":5956.353,"text":"但是一個法案躺在行政院一年半才核定有很多要跟地方溝通的事就會耽誤到所以院長我不知道為什麼一個法案要核定個一年半因為你已經離開嘛所以離開台北市政府我想我們請部長來說明為什麼我們會"},{"start":5958.862,"end":5983.271,"text":"需要一段時間來跟地方做溝通是我想非常謝謝黃委員在擔任台北市副市長的時候在2022年7月5號就把台北市的淨零排放因為我們的市議會非常認真很快就通過了但是因為我們的氣候變遷因應法事實上是去年2月15號才通過那氣候變遷法通過之後還有12個執法"},{"start":5985.012,"end":6011.603,"text":"所以地方的自治條例必須也在執法跟探盤查、探費等等相關的必須先公告之後才能夠去審地方的自治條例我要回到是說就是說像這種淨零探牌的事情已經很早我們大概就知道國際趨勢的方式連一個地方政府都跑得這麼快我的意思是說將來的環境不尤其是剛剛升格"},{"start":6013.083,"end":6041.52,"text":"將來可能應該是中央跑的要比地方快一點。地方等你的謀法出來、執法出來的地方都等不及了。所以我的意思是說今天既然環境部已經升格他就要變成行政院裡面淨零碳排的領頭羊。他要帶著這個國家朝向這個方向更高的位階甚至可能要院長來做領導。整個行政院要一起配合。當然"},{"start":6042.79,"end":6043.07,"text":"我一定努力來這樣做至少在這幾個月內"},{"start":6063.012,"end":6067.595,"text":"好的院長我覺得這個是很重要接下來還有一個小問題但這個問題我覺得也是地方政府很在乎的才化法蔡總統也說過才化法要修正也說了10年這10年8年的執政"},{"start":6092.401,"end":6111.389,"text":"有沒有送過財化法的修正案到立法院?基本上我想財化法不只是蔡總統的這一段時間。是所有的行政院長都說過要修的對吧?而且是立正的總統都有提到財化法。為什麼都不做呢?我想這個不做。或是立方有意見?"},{"start":6114.714,"end":6139.094,"text":"委員你當過副市長你很清楚這一個需要各縣市比如說六都、縣市明白了,我們都明白但是就是有沒有人要做嘛第一個財化法現在的問題我想院長也很清楚這當然委員我講還沒有講完我可以講一下嗎我們時間只剩7分鐘我還有一個題目我們認為財化法是很重要是不是讓部長簡單講一分鐘好不好部長很簡單是"},{"start":6143.623,"end":6170.103,"text":"這個財化法的問題分配不均,發展失衡,人均差異很大。臺北大概是兩萬四,新北的人大概只分到一萬二。更嚴重的是像新竹縣,它只分到九千多。然後最重要的是中央掌握了這個錢跟權,然後地方低頭,所以它就變成一個魔戒。到現在為止沒有一個中央的官員或中央的首長願意下放這個權利,你同意嗎?"},{"start":6170.883,"end":6198.357,"text":"跟委員報告財化法雖然沒有修但是中央透過中央統籌分配稅款跟一般性的補助款對地方的財政大力的益助加上地方政府的努力那財政狀況已經有所改善那至於財化法的修正院長已經指示要遵循各界的意見凝聚共識所以財政部也凝聚了六項的修法原則第一個就是提升財政自主第二個是調劑財政盈蓄第三個是劃一分配的基礎以及精進分配的機制"},{"start":6199.037,"end":6214.704,"text":"然後保障地方財源以及既有的財源不減少那這個部分的六個原則之下有關分配的指標也已經請各地方政府來提意見不過目前各地方政府提出來的意見都非常的分歧那差距很大所以你要分錢給他當然是其實你只要立原則就好第二個院長我覺得直接很簡單態度上"},{"start":6220.486,"end":6221.687,"text":"委員講得比較好聽21縣市來了意見真的相當分歧"},{"start":6242.85,"end":6268.315,"text":"就直接說我會好好分配就好啦也就是說不要承諾一些空話啦這才是我的問題好啦結論是我們希望說有一個制度性的改革方案第二個我們希望至少有個方向齁這個方向連馬英九任內喔都送一個版本你們連版本都沒有那為什麼會沒有通過呢我想就是因為這就是如果長期溝通16年都沒通過的話就是要"},{"start":6269.434,"end":6293.693,"text":"如果現在是你執政,你就必須要去處理啊。對,處理的過程就是剛才講的,我們已經有進步。我希望看守內閣不是空轉內閣,該做的事情就去做。第二個,剛剛講的不合時宜的稅要調整。第二個,碳稅要開始研議。第三個,財化法的方向其實還是要交代,即使蔡總統要卸任。"},{"start":6294.744,"end":6321.917,"text":"賴總統上任一樣要把這個問題跟全民交代清楚。好嗎?好,接下去我剩4分鐘了我還有一個比較重要的問題要來問一下院長。院長這8年你覺得台灣的居住正義落實的如何?我覺得蔡總統當時講的有一些有關於居住正義的事情確實有認真在做。那像是社會住宅的部分或者我覺得"},{"start":6323.382,"end":6331.484,"text":"效果應該是不錯但是對於但是台灣為什麼還是低薪高房價年輕人痛苦不堪"},{"start":6332.247,"end":6360.429,"text":"我想房價不可能在很短的時間內會有很大的變動但是我覺得解決臺灣的問題就好像你們所提出來的一樣就是要從社會住宅來著手八年來住宅的價格上漲了32%可是我們的員工就是薪水上漲10%也就是我們薪水成長趕不上房價第二個部分是八年執政從所得比"},{"start":6361.978,"end":6369.871,"text":"從8.97變成9.86也就是說可能要再多一年不吃不喝才能買房那聯徵中心認為也查到了"},{"start":6371.206,"end":6392.482,"text":"拜訪首購的年金往後挪移就從30到35現在首購要35到40然後臺北市當然更嚴重是15.67但也是世界級的第一個前面名列前茅那另外就是在平均地權新法當時是希望能夠打房可是目前為止好像後來又有新清安貸款"},{"start":6393.303,"end":6420.269,"text":"那其實又催促了買氣就是說我們在打房跟催促買氣的情況下其實兩個政策好像有稍微互相矛盾那比較嚴重的就是審計部也幫我這不是我講這是審計部講房價高青年負擔的能力即使提供了更高的補助還有更高的額度的貸款延長了貸款的年限還有補貼他更多的利息但是"},{"start":6421.34,"end":6437.858,"text":"議員："},{"start":6438.939,"end":6461.179,"text":"我想我們做了很多為什麼會這麼嚴重就像你剛才講的這個房價繼續往上飆那另外一個很重要的事情我覺得我們現在要解決臺灣這個住的問題特別是年輕人住的問題的話應該要從社會住宅的這個角度來擴建是一個最能夠建級旅居而且能夠做到更好的地方"},{"start":6461.459,"end":6465.361,"text":"所以我們才會有來推動社會住宅,然後有這個租金補貼,再加上所謂的這個包租貸款。但是你知道很多年輕人是拿不到租金補貼的嗎?"},{"start":6490.553,"end":6500.093,"text":"因為他的房東不准他去申請。這個部分我想你可能還不了解最近的狀況。如果他去申請了他就只有選擇搬家。"},{"start":6501.468,"end":6530.359,"text":"我想委員提到這個問題我們在去年的時候其實已經大幅的解決那當然可能還有一些狀況不過跟前年的狀況目前已經大幅改善了大幅改善院長其實我現在要說的是我時間也不多了租屋市場的黑市還是台灣很嚴重的一個問題即使我們租宅法修正我們可以拿去申請租金補貼但是他可能下一次續約的時候就被迫搬走了第二個就是"},{"start":6531.087,"end":6553.657,"text":"他可能也沒有辦法申請戶口所以所有在台北北漂的孩子其實都很難在台北有享受社會福利所以我覺得這幾個東西租黑市讓他能夠陽光化才是內政部接下來應該要做的事林部長怎麼樣租黑市陽光化是你最重要的任務吧"},{"start":6554.085,"end":6579.688,"text":"是,我們在於租屋的一個透明度,其實這幾年其實也進步很多。到目前為止,我們能夠...好,謝謝黃委員、珊珊的質詢。接下來,院會報告。現在院會報告我們休息10分鐘。謝謝。"},{"start":7164.855,"end":7166.869,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":7210.855,"end":7226.58,"text":"報告院會現在繼續開會接下來我們請林委員代話質詢主席有請陳院長麻煩請陳院長備詢"},{"start":7234.318,"end":7235.2,"text":"臨委員長,恭喜委員當選連任。"},{"start":7239.497,"end":7267.351,"text":"好本期呢針對兩個議題來建議我們行政院第一個是建立犬貓國家公益學庫另外一個是世青更新好在這個犬貓的部分呢我們現在寵物飼養的狀態在2023年去年年底的時候有晶片植入登記的已經達225萬但是台灣目前對動物用血是無法可管所以對於需要去輸血的寵物或買動物血液的飼主"},{"start":7267.791,"end":7291.903,"text":"就無公正第三支持單位來支援,所以讓寵物輸選成為高風險的行為。官方民間各怎麼做?官方在2019年的時候,農委會有犬貓宣輸選的公告,但是循同虛設。民間的部分在2022年的時候,有民間自主的募款透明選擇的計畫,但是最後還是無疾而終。那我們的寵物呢?"},{"start":7293.442,"end":7318.055,"text":"目前飼養狀況當娃娃車內的是寵物的時候臺灣就已經進入毛小孩的時代在去年年底15歲的人口是279萬人飼養犬貓登記的有晶片登記的是225萬隻我本席相信如果再加上沒有登記的這個寵物那更是高了好這樣子也不得不讓我們去重視"},{"start":7319.315,"end":7337.92,"text":"寵物醫療用血及他的醫療權益了。在去年在這個犬貓目前的輸血以犬來講與貓來講我們這個貓的血液有AB群有A型B型AB型犬的血液就有8群"},{"start":7339.56,"end":7347.388,"text":"好那正式的合格選庫的機構提供的在臺灣只有95%95%是未被公認的安全選役這95%當中的56%是來自以牟利為導向的獸醫院這其中的44%是來自非獸醫院的犬貓氏族"},{"start":7359.72,"end":7387.478,"text":"學犬、雪貓的悲慘事件就在臺灣上升也因為臺灣現況對動物用血無法可管即使民間有善意執行成立的血液互助會也因為沒有公正第三單位的支持讓寵物輸血成為高風險的行為所以本席強烈的主張同業部要制定相關管理的條例而這個條例當中一定有三個價值文明、道德、公義什麼叫做文明?"},{"start":7388.319,"end":7388.339,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":7418.739,"end":7439.851,"text":"一直到97年有正式的醫療財團法人臺灣血液基金會我們的寵物是不是可以比照辦理呢?好這樣的餵獵館的血液交易有什麼問題?四個第一個飼養血犬的超抽血液也但是呢這個超抽血液會導致狗狗軟腳貧血但還是沒有辦法管"},{"start":7440.151,"end":7464.598,"text":"只有法令規定說最高划環是15000元但是也沒有執行。第二個問題血液來源沒有保障第三個血品的設備與配備也有問題第四個缺乏公正第三方統籌外國怎麼做美國英國印度美國在2021年的時候有專訪任何生產動物血液的和血液的成品都要向農業部申請"},{"start":7465.418,"end":7465.438,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":7481.264,"end":7498.22,"text":"的銀行印度在2010年的時候首次啟動了全雪庫創亞洲先例。本期的主張容業部在3個月內嚴厲建立全貓公益雪庫的規劃方案,含逐年編列的預算。"},{"start":7498.72,"end":7523.877,"text":"好在這個當桌的運作呢這個本席也有這個建議的時程我們要強調文明在前12年我們就建立犬貓公益學庫的機制三四年落實道德學研合作研發的機制五六年鼓勵公益完成了永續經營學庫的平台本席期待的非營利動物血液的基金會能夠在六年後來落實"},{"start":7524.597,"end":7541.471,"text":"好這樣的具體建議政府支持政策的給力提升了動物平權的觀念學研機構的合作讓我們的有一個示範的學庫及透明學園的媒合平台一毛狗因為有這樣的保障民眾絕對有感政府的進步"},{"start":7542.572,"end":7562.971,"text":"縱使寵物貓狗的醫療和動物福利。院長您怎麼看這個議題呢?這個是講得很完整很佩服我想確實對於寵物學庫的建立是相當的重要我們一定會努力來推動那這一個部分農業部其實已經開始有一些著手"},{"start":7563.351,"end":7563.972,"text":"事經更新,刻不容緩。"},{"start":7579.805,"end":7605.695,"text":"好,這個施政更新就在本期的全區但是它是全國提供以西的重要的一個場區施政更新下游的產業鏈它是以主產以西為主以西有什麼重量它提供了高質化材料、基礎材料、高質化的材料所提供的5G材料、太陽能、光電、國防應用、電動車材、除能材料、風電材料、半導體材料在基礎的部分提供了民生工業、機能性布料"},{"start":7612.597,"end":7632.604,"text":"總共國內乙烯的總需求量平均400萬噸分別由中油跟台塑我們的產所需量都是相當的大概都200、300彼此這樣子的一個數量但是台塑是完整的自己自主提供他給他的集團但我們的中油所提供的乙烯卻要從國外來進口"},{"start":7634.344,"end":7648.174,"text":"好,那這個我們的老市卿啊,這個老市卿目前是沒有辦法面對新挑戰的,不管在ESG減碳跟產能的需求。我們中油的市卿在戴華的選區啊,在本市的選區已經運轉了40年了。"},{"start":7650.155,"end":7667.129,"text":"我們高雄歷經的氣爆、食安公安頻傳,高雄鄉親對新四季當然有所期待。這事情當中有多危險呢?原物料及產品都是亦然亦報的危險物品或毒化物。高雄居民已無法承受重大公安再度的發聲。"},{"start":7667.97,"end":7697.122,"text":"好,這新四期原版的規劃是2017年購地。2022年還平,要到2028年投產。這總共中油要赤字823億,針對31公頃。好,但是我們現在延宕了。延宕在我們勝院的版本是什麼呢?我們的這個建制的預算增加了239億,總共到106億而已。能命的期待落空,產業的需求無法滿足。"},{"start":7697.942,"end":7722.162,"text":"就算今年在行政院有真的合併的話,今年來進行環評也要6到7年後2030年才正式的投站。好,我們加速新思金是創造三贏的。本期要感謝經濟部跟中友,其實部長是非常的努力在做地方的遊說,不管是對我們高雄市政府或者是地方民意的整合,"},{"start":7722.662,"end":7750.696,"text":"所以今天戴華是帶著我臨元鄉親的名義帶著我高雄市民鄉親的期待來建言我們行政院如果我們能夠趕快的啟動新市區可能早日達成自己自主的目標我在這建設過程當中創造了四萬五千個就業機會完成之後可以增加六百個就業機會帶動地方發展最重要的能夠促進產業升級落實人員轉型導入智能化的設計與管理"},{"start":7751.876,"end":7754.259,"text":"好具體的要求行政院"},{"start":7763.84,"end":7792.779,"text":"要加速核定事情再造。院長這時候是最佳的時間點了。我3到10月也就在此時此刻各部會在以施政計劃編列概算7、8月這個主計總處就會整到各部會明年度的預算下半年10月開始我們本院就會審查明年的預算若行政院在這個第一季的時候會核定事情更新的計劃該計劃的時程也就會相比現在抱怨的時程"},{"start":7793.459,"end":7808.311,"text":"再慢兩年, 院長在您這個光榮融退的之前是否能夠送給高雄市民這樣的一個符合我們ESG近年轉型的這樣的一個大禮物呢?"},{"start":7808.311,"end":7808.331,"text":"院長"},{"start":7809.222,"end":7834.048,"text":"我們會來加速來評估然後來核定有沒有可能的因為其實這評估很久了重點還是民意的整合所以其實地方政府包括我在地居民其實是整合好的這當中中油包括我們部長這邊是花了很多的心力本席也才敢在這邊這個國會殿堂上來做這樣建議所以是不是請院長能夠"},{"start":7835.888,"end":7842.276,"text":"期待啦好不好能夠在今年在520以前至少3、4月前能夠拍板定案呢?"},{"start":7845.034,"end":7867.647,"text":"現在國發會已經通過了國發會已經9月的時候報院所以現在已經在院長基本上是在你的院本部了所以就等你裁決了我們請經濟部稍微說明一下謝謝委員那確實這個是因為計畫很大那影響對台灣的石化產業未來影響也很重要特別是乙烯委員都很清楚"},{"start":7868.067,"end":7885.678,"text":"那所以我也跟產業界做了很多次的溝通那地方就像委員也謝謝委員支持那也跟地方政府有做一些溝通那我想這一個的大計畫那確實是計畫是很大所以也謝謝國會幫我們審完那院裡面現在還有一些意見議題再跟我們請我們確認所以確認之後院裡面會走後面的程序"},{"start":7894.23,"end":7915.642,"text":"院長我們期待我們一起努力能夠在您農退的時候能給我們高雄一個大禮物那最後一點時間本席的感言這個院長這個三黨不過半在本席這個看您的質詢我只有簡單的一句話我一定要表達我對你的這個敬重之意是一個三黨不過半那可能"},{"start":7916.442,"end":7944.292,"text":"謝謝。謝謝。"},{"start":7950.579,"end":7956.743,"text":"謝謝林委員代話的質詢。接下來我們請陳委員學生質詢。謝謝主席。"},{"start":7979.12,"end":7991.943,"text":"陳院長還有各部會社長大家早安是不是請主席請陳院長備詢阿凡請陳院長備詢陳委員早恭喜當選連任院長早安最近這幾天發生驚嚇隨遇大陸漁民不幸歷難的事情那麼間接影響到馬祖的海域"},{"start":8009.102,"end":8030.659,"text":"部長您最近有沒有提到說入海警闖金門禁限制水域我們要加強取締必要時與驅離有沒有講這句話我們確實在金門是有禁限著水域那在這一個當有"},{"start":8040.943,"end":8060.154,"text":"因為事情一發生我非常關切金門的事情延伸到馬祖所以我們馬祖海巡的部分我也跟海巡隊長講我們保持警戒追逐的事情先暫時避免因為今夏的事情還沒處理好"},{"start":8061.414,"end":8086.386,"text":"所以我們在兩馬鬧元宵的時候我們的縣長、議長也到彼岸去跟大陸領導,我們在那邊氣氛都還不錯也就是金門馬祖我們關係還蠻好的雖然他們有三條海監船在我們離我們五海里的地方也在宣誓但是一切還蠻平和的那麼最近"},{"start":8087.903,"end":8113.188,"text":"我們的海巡署周署長也做了一些動作也比較低調一點我是建議就是說在法律跟人道的部分能夠把它切割畢竟人死為大大陸的珊瑚船也就是我們簡稱的白船白船是沒有牌照的他來這邊有兩個目的一個是我們金門馬祖是島礁比較多啊漁產比較多來釣魚的"},{"start":8116.437,"end":8144.001,"text":"一種是來割網的來竊盜的所以這個在海巡跟海警來講的話他們雙方在檯面下都有默契是共同打擊犯罪跟取締的目標但是海巡發生這件事情是漁船的魚尾勾到了底下據我的了解有可能是他的人掉到海裡去死亡也有可能是"},{"start":8144.434,"end":8169.455,"text":"我們海巡在執法過程中,我們的人掉在海裡面去死亡。這一種悲劇才會有的。像去年的4月在一次執勤的時候,也是落海四位,其中有三位就是我們的船員。那好在那個時候總數是三艘船,所以全部都救得起來。所以海巡同仁在執法的時候知道自己也是在搏命,所以跟委員報告"},{"start":8171.036,"end":8194.722,"text":"絕對不可能說我們的船比他小的情況下,我們的同仁會想要去撞這艘船。這個絕對不會是。我也不會幫海軍講話,也不會幫大陸講話。我們案情就是請檢察官來懷疑。不是我們樂意建造的。今天我們希望把法律的部分跟人造的部分分為兩部分來處理。"},{"start":8195.802,"end":8220.867,"text":"我們一直都是希望朝向人道撫慰的方式朝向這裡一起來談判但是整個談判的環境我方是如此但是對方我們也希望是如此所以目前在今夏海域有白船在追逐我們海巡的事情所以我們海巡在這個時候我們需要讓人賴我們戒備"},{"start":8225.399,"end":8242.655,"text":"我們一直都從事件發生以後,我也特別指示,一定是冷靜理智來進行我們常態性的巡捕。是事實上目前……不要繼續挑釁了。沒有,我們從來沒有挑釁。周組長最近做的事情很好啊。"},{"start":8243.075,"end":8269.29,"text":"我指派他去上香我特別指派他要到金門去然後請他上香他也接見了家屬他都做了事我們很希望在這個氣氛之下能夠有進展但是事實上有很多提出來希望我們去做的事情事實上真的是很難那我們很希望很希望趕快回到人道福威這件事情我想"},{"start":8270.791,"end":8288.644,"text":"我在這邊再次提醒,我們跟大陸不要為了一點點小事情,把兩岸人民的感情造成一種關懷。我瞭解,委員也幫了很多忙,縣政府跟縣議會也都幫了很多忙,我們都非常的感謝。我們也希望一座落花機,希望能夠解決"},{"start":8289.464,"end":8318.476,"text":"我們很希望在人道府衛的部分,集中到人道府衛的部分,朝向這裡我們好好的協商,然後來解決這件事情。我們有很大的誠意。盡快的把這件事情平復。我們很努力,我們很努力。那我繼續我想請教這個院長。是。飛安很重要吧。飛安?當然。飛行安全如果沒有的話,我們寧可把機場關閉嘛,對不對?是,當然。我們也不一定要飛喔。不造成人命的話,是不是?是。"},{"start":8320.175,"end":8347.138,"text":"85年4月5號我們馬祖發生空難國華航空飛機失事6個人死亡其中包含我們前任楊崔生現場也在飛機上他是逃命出去了甚至還救了一些人我們非常感佩民國86年8月10號國華航空又失事了16個人"},{"start":8348.635,"end":8377.53,"text":"全數罹難其中包含了我弟弟我弟媳婦我子女我親家母5個人16個人我們家佔了五分之一所以這種悲痛不是那種沒坐過飛機的人有些人沒坐過飛機有些人不敢坐飛機有些人懼高症不是那種那種那一些人那個痛苦能夠形容的我為什麼要去選立法委員"},{"start":8378.137,"end":8406.579,"text":"我就是為了這件事情我不停的呼籲不停的呼籲我們的機場要改善這很重要好110年5月10號我們有一架飛機因為南安機場側風他的右輪打到頭端東山寶到頭端以後那麼降落機場爆胎所幸人員安全"},{"start":8407.895,"end":8435.445,"text":"所以這一些都是全國最不安全的機場比較不安全的機場好了啦應該是馬祖倫南竿機場跟北竿機場院長您承認這件事嗎?我想南竿跟北竿機場確實是有可以均勁的地方所以下去的時候看到側風會怕是不是能夠安全降落會不會歪掉這是我們心中的痛嘛是不是所以"},{"start":8436.687,"end":8464.851,"text":"穆氏機場到目前為止因為氣候的因素天候的因素南北竿的航班經常停飛10年來一共有3625架次無法起降天候的因素側風風太大霧太大一陣霧飄來利龍航空有3593架次華信航空有32架次無法降落所以"},{"start":8465.404,"end":8492.771,"text":"北竿機場的擴建我從85年當第三屆國大代表的時候就已經提出北竿機場改善因為那時候就是我弟弟飛機失事嘛90年到98年時任縣長正好我當縣長我可以強力的推動北竿機場的改善方案103年學生要求行政院"},{"start":8493.772,"end":8519.998,"text":"要給馬祖一個安全的機場山西的機場到104年民航局提出來了馬祖北竿山西機場中建匯合方案111年行政院合定原則支持這件事情那麼112年7月通過環評的審查環境影響評估通過了到現在113年2月15號最近國發會"},{"start":8524.051,"end":8551.627,"text":"開一個會找了我們縣長、鄉長開這個會表示審查已經差不多了要送到行政院去核定去年的11月10月6號本席質詢院長的時候院長怎麼回答我我放一片影片給你看好不好我弟弟一家無口人命在北開機場失事"},{"start":8553.186,"end":8562.753,"text":"所以北竿機場最優先趕快擴增?所以北竿機場第一優先要把它做成安全機場?對,我們的目標就在這裡,已經核定了。將近200億我們已經核了,儘快把它完成,這個是我們最優先希望馬祖最先做的。然後北竿機場之外呢?"},{"start":8582.714,"end":8605.465,"text":"院長您在10月6日回答我,回答核定那現在委員的投影片也講說現在國會這已經審議完我相信院長你還沒看過還沒有我請那個報告委員因為2月15號我們大概原則上有召開會議大概原則通過了"},{"start":8606.545,"end":8625.177,"text":"那是說裡面大家有提議的所以唯一有一些感染的就是他那個就是那個機場在維修的時間現在大概預估要7年多了那大家覺得這個時間可能比較長那是不是就是請交通部這邊再跟民航局再討論一下"},{"start":8626.258,"end":8653.34,"text":"他實施的工序也好或方法也好或夜間施工等等的一些情況看能不能把那個時間再縮短。那我們大概就希望這個想好以後大概二月底就會報還給我們就盡快的付給行政院。那行政院就可以核定。郭主委,你講得很好。您在開的會裡面北開機站改建時程要多遠我告訴你齁第一期"},{"start":8654.13,"end":8669.845,"text":"要11年9個月第一期第一期幹什麼呢用力取得這個設計要4年6個月要4年6個月那時候我這一任又卸任了我又看不到了"},{"start":8671.616,"end":8697.799,"text":"第二個工期要7年3個月也就是說移動要11年9個月這是第一期的部分還有第二期第二期什麼新航站的工程需要蓋多久10年3個月一共加起來要多久要24年的2個月"},{"start":8699.164,"end":8719.255,"text":"二十四年兩個月,院長先生你幾歲?我九十幾歲我還看得到嗎?太過分了吧你們那麼多的各位首長在這邊蓋個馬祖機場要二十四年你們聽得下去嗎?"},{"start":8721.221,"end":8735.636,"text":"所以委員剛才我們才公主委才說我們希望這個交通部這邊再來檢討一下這個工期建設的期間是不是能夠跟廠商一起來考慮怎麼樣來說短這個是有必要的"},{"start":8738.218,"end":8764.744,"text":"報告委員因為第一期的部分那個部分只要機場的延長跟改善那個做好以後安全就沒有問題那第二期您剛才提到那個新的航站那個部分要配合你蓋50年100年關我什麼事啊沒有沒有就是第一期的部分那個工期7年多蓋完以後這個新的這個跑道就可以開始營運只是我們希望說那個7年3個月可不可以再縮短那你全世界機場有沒有蓋過20幾年了嘛哪一個機場是這樣蓋的"},{"start":8775.148,"end":8793.717,"text":"現在這個有一個環環相扣的關係第一個南岸機場的遷移要到豐山第一個我要炸山然後為了跑道延伸350公尺我必須填海所以現在想法是炸山填海把它做出來"},{"start":8794.639,"end":8813.625,"text":"那剛才談到青年三個月,他是因為我在跑道的這個算南端在填海的時候他會有一些這個施工,以及在某一個程度他要壓土的時候那個可能會有兩公尺高。我不聽那麼多啦。應該是講一共要多久,你跟我講就好了啦。"},{"start":8814.425,"end":8818.97,"text":"我跟委員報告我覺得用力取得還有設計的這個階段,如果縣政府跟民進黨來溝通,我想可以把4年6個月縮短"},{"start":8830.28,"end":8853.256,"text":"公期的部分就是說我們想辦法來縮短就是說因為現在剛才看到在北竿的飛機事實上不多所以他應該施工的空隙會比較多這部分我已經跟民航局討論過也就是說第一個11年9個月怎麼縮短我們現在已經有一些在討論討論了那第二個因為新航…還有細設吧對就是用地取得跟細設這個時間跟縣政府討論如果可以縮短縮短"},{"start":8861.242,"end":8865.927,"text":"合定的話就是他們剛才講二月底就送出來。那我三月初就來合定。"},{"start":8871.957,"end":8896.206,"text":"回覆給我們以後我們就會回覆行政院對我們3月份就會來核定了但是問題就是說在這有錄音的喔你要注意喔是是是剛才就講過因為他們還在等這個這個施工民航局把相關的這個時程再做一個檢討我們的目的都是一樣就是希望把這個期程可以縮短我去討論剛才六年"},{"start":8897.246,"end":8913.914,"text":"對啦我也覺得太久了不過這個工程我們也要了解說這工程確實有他的困難度那所以我們盡可能的要專家來審查看看這樣的工期這天海啊這20米啊20米的水深"},{"start":8914.694,"end":8935.747,"text":"你填海出去填350公尺嘛我跟委員報告,的確沒樣子在顧這個時間,第一個在離島一般的營造廠商不願意過去,他一定要談到這個問題所以我想說我們來檢討今天先不要浪費這個時間好不好月長你答覆我,兩個禮拜之內核定"},{"start":8937.225,"end":8966.247,"text":"三月份啊,對啊三月份,三月一號、三月三十號有30天我們收到這個你十月六號能跟我講合併的對啦,這樣就是國發會這個資料送上到行政院來,我們會盡快合併這一種事情已經辦了七八年了,八九年了會啦,我們會盡快你要慢慢拖,不是盡快,兩個禮拜好不好我們盡快努力嘛可以完成嘛"},{"start":8967.372,"end":8994.975,"text":"公主委你那邊的手續都已經差不多啦,就報行政院秘書長嘛秘書長送他一個院長看一下就差不多了嘛對啦,我們就等待相關的意見,我們會來催促好不好好,這個機長沒問題啦齁第二個我請教一下這個南北竿大橋南北竿大橋從106年齁一直扯到現在,106年,多少年了?"},{"start":8997.08,"end":9024.145,"text":"這個案子綜合規劃已經完成了喔跟機場一樣喔一直在那邊拖你們國發會的講法是什麼勒是說看南竿機場啊運量怎麼樣公主委我告訴你南竿機場是一個非常危險的機場喔他的進場那個側風那個地方他已經改善到極致了不安全的機場你不用關閉嗎不安全的機場你讓他繼續飛嗎"},{"start":9025.765,"end":9053.581,"text":"要等到出事了,縣長下臺,院長下臺,是不是這樣?向國人道歉,要搞到這樣的地步嗎?我不希望有這樣的事情發生。所以,你要坐南安高安機場的話,你這個大橋一定要坐嘛。你大橋不坐,你北安機場,你現在坐十幾年,我們那邊老闆已經快炸鍋了,蓋個機場要十幾年,我不蓋了,你可去吊飛機也沒關係。"},{"start":9054.878,"end":9082.674,"text":"我要忍受十幾年,我生意都不要做了嗎?不是震動企業,這長痛了欸。要十幾年欸。那你北竿機場做完以後呢?你北竿機場在做,北竿機場老闆一定要到南竿坐飛機。那北竿機場做完以後呢?那南竿機場要到北竿去坐飛機。那南竿機場怎麼辦?又來了,問題又來了。所以這個橋的問題一定要解決嘛。沒關係,你機場確定以後。"},{"start":9084.266,"end":9103.797,"text":"我希望喬的問題我們來討論喬的事情喬一定要做我想你行政部門不做我們立法院來推我會逼著你們做你喬一定要做所以喬的細則也很簡單誰說要做什麼600億公主委誰講的600億"},{"start":9110.309,"end":9128.175,"text":"發言委員,因為上一次院長指示說尋找第三方比較客觀的來重新評估,包括技術上還有經費上。那我們現在已經也招標了,就是國外的英國的一個工程顧問公司,全世界大概排名大概第11名。這話是你們國發會傳出來要600億。蔡總統也是誤聽你們的600億。"},{"start":9133.897,"end":9159.572,"text":"施西講288億啊,施西欸人家施西欸,一定比你專業吧。所以因為他那個,因為升到60公尺那個是我們沒有做過的,所以這個還要第三方的技術上的評估,所以我們已經有這樣的評估。施西這個單位就不要了嘛,要這個單位幹什麼?還有技術系施西也說可行啊,他說可行啊。"},{"start":9160.117,"end":9187.934,"text":"沒有說不可行啊,是你們在那邊講不可行啊,我很奇怪咧。你們找司機開了會了嗎?也沒有啊。這個事情我們到交通委員會再討論。還有高雄航線,高雄航線我在選舉期間啊,民進黨黨部主委一直講說,高雄航線他去連署啊,連署7000個人,連署8萬人也沒用啊。"},{"start":9188.53,"end":9197.358,"text":"航空公司飛不飛很重要啊。例如航空不飛,國華、國慶,哇你叫他飛嘛,不打。"},{"start":9198.567,"end":9227.638,"text":"你能不能找民航局我上次已經講過了民航局召集嘛用包機的方式用其他的方式去處理嘛你可以處理嗎現在就是用這個方向就是說馬祖高雄的航線在94年斷掉那當時就是運量不足運量怎麼不足呢我負責嘛當時當時的那個當時那現在可以啦然後現在民航局事實上除了立龍以外也找了像華系我們除了老百姓除了觀光客阿兵哥的占比在南部是"},{"start":9230.582,"end":9245.037,"text":"欸50%欸還不止欸阿平哥也是回家的路啊講了老半天你們也聽不下去我叫了老半天我們跟航空公司做過討論啦齁他們是完全沒有意願是民進黨民進黨黨部方向搞錯了嘛現在先用包機先用包機"},{"start":9246.348,"end":9274.853,"text":"你們能不能找一下嗎?好不好?包機的方式我想跟縣政府這邊,聯鄉縣政府來討論一下怎麼樣做一些這個獎勵的措施來做,這個可能比較可行。等包機有印量以後在這邊恢復定期航線。我要問一下我們院長,院長對部立院的手法,醫療系統。在選舉期間,我們的聯鄉縣黨部主委,你問先生,我很謝謝他。"},{"start":9276.104,"end":9304.676,"text":"他都為了王必勝次長,同意馬祖改為部立院,您看法如何?部立院只是換個招牌,縣立兩個字改為部立就好了嗎?不是這樣齁?人員組織編制醫藥病房,是不是?什麼神經外科、神經內科,這些都要準備了,人員要增加"},{"start":9305.731,"end":9332.001,"text":"部長你回答我好了那有關於部立院就是說有沒有答應?市長有沒有答應?目前的話是沒有啦沒有?沒有就騙人囉沒有,那個因為縣政府那邊是不是很贊成主要是地方我們縣政府的兩個院長,也就是兩個縣長啊是院長的學生啊,劉貞映啊對,貞映"},{"start":9333.646,"end":9351.077,"text":"他們覺得我們地方很小嘛,是不是?金門跟澎湖實施的不是很順暢。馬魯這個地方行之有年啊,非常的好。不錯啊。李衛先生跑去講說民進黨王必勝次長答應改為部立院,有沒有這回事?"},{"start":9352.399,"end":9368.77,"text":"並沒有直接說所謂的答應改為不立,而是說這一個部分的話必須還要再研議所以我們在1月的時候,那部裡面有派人過去縣政府跟縣長談過這個事情那目前的話沒有談過,縣長有談過會跟我講"},{"start":9371.453,"end":9396.759,"text":"我們會長如果有談過一定會告訴我1月17那有去拜訪那個黃碧珍部長嗎?應該是我要問的是王市長,王市長有沒有答應?這沒有沒關係,我一個問完就問今天顧問來我,我一定查個血絡指數好請你回去我要問我們國防部部長邱部長還有一點時間喔會長是"},{"start":9401.226,"end":9426.18,"text":"他的靶場設在我們的行政中心啊長照已經蓋好了醫院蓋好了國中蓋好了國小蓋好了在中間打靶槍打來打去院長你聽得進去嗎所以這個事情我有問過邱部長邱部長的問題在哪裡你知道嗎待拆待建我說清朝的靶場現在是民國啦現代化啦"},{"start":9430.745,"end":9456.355,"text":"那個是那個地推土地推一推有沒有弄個靶子啊就從那啪打過去是這樣打法的不是像現在現在那個警察你看在室內都可以打打了以後那個靶子自動彈回來看看有沒有打中靶心有沒有打中部長是不是這樣你國防部沒錢你也講嘛行政院主席長也在吧你另外能不能撥點錢啊"},{"start":9458.36,"end":9484.981,"text":"國防部預算很緊湊我知道啊他們裡面那個馬路啊我當縣長還是我幫他們鋪的我鋪了很多條啦國防部哪有錢鋪馬路咧沒有錢鋪嘛所以他這個靶場說代遷代鑒我們縣政府窮的你也知道一個是澎湖一個是馬祖金門有個酒廠在那個地方你說靶場搬就搬有什麼困難啊"},{"start":9485.97,"end":9494.925,"text":"他那個酒多賣兩瓶就有了馬祖沒有啊你知道只有扣我們公務人員薪水拿去做保產啊所以邱部長說沒辦法後來答應我說兩年"},{"start":9499.023,"end":9522.109,"text":"兩年到現在你們沒動靜欸,我們憲法幫你都預定好了沒有?報告委員我跟您說明好不好,我知道委員幾個會期當中提到靶場的問題,事實上我們也很積極,我們也編組到三個點去看,我想現在政府也很清楚,有封山、有板山、還有個大臥。這幾個地方經過評估以後,我們選那個點裡面有些困難,我們好像3月5號還要再開會嘛。"},{"start":9523.669,"end":9545.837,"text":"我跟我們同仁交代,我們針對問題不要讓人家覺得我們在拖,沒有在拖,一直在積極運作。但剛剛委員已經點出幾個問題來,我覺得這個在後面都可以談,都可以談。那幾個點選擇了以後,有些問題可能要麻煩縣政府要先處理完,才能夠走下一步。都處理了,甚至像你們現在,你們要代菜代鍵。"},{"start":9546.618,"end":9564.838,"text":"就四個字而已?代謝也是問題之一啦。我們要處理好啊。軍方也知道在什麼地方啦。軍方也不敢講話。大隊怎麼敢講話呢?一定不會不敢講話。不是不敢講話,因為有一些問題。那你們現在在代謝、再見四個字。代謝、再見這個問題又困在哪裡啦?邱部長?"},{"start":9565.776,"end":9565.816,"text":"拜託部長"},{"start":9594.656,"end":9604.719,"text":"你這個事情注意一下,不要為了這個事情影響到軍民的感情嘛,是不是?長照在那裡,學校在那裡,你每天那個子彈砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰�"},{"start":9621.67,"end":9649.911,"text":"部隊沒肉吃沒肉吃關我現在我什麼事啊因為你們那個副食供應中心跟台灣的肉商有簽約嘛你的肉一定要跟他買嘛我們馬祖地區的肉你不能買啊那問題又出來了你們有跟那個航商啊開船的啊公司有簽約嘛他船正好壞掉了所以肉也沒辦法送啊船也沒辦法開所以沒肉吃"},{"start":9651.019,"end":9659.386,"text":"一扯扯到縣政府說你們那個馬祖立法委員混蛋阿明哥沒飯吃沒肉吃跟我們什麼關係啊"},{"start":9660.559,"end":9687.771,"text":"我跟委員不會這樣,那個我跟委員說明一下,我們也在強化,怎麼樣強化?一個他原本的儲存量我們把給增加天賦。搞得陸軍司令還要去道歉。是,所以第二個就是我們現在那個這個復共站雖然沒有,但他的採購在外離島採購一切有,他部隊長自己做主就可以,我們沒有很大的限制。部長現在兵力也少了嘛,你跟民間去買就好了嘛。"},{"start":9688.731,"end":9710.96,"text":"讓他們吃一點生鮮的活豬肉好不好?不要吃青草那種冰得硬梆梆的冰得好幾年來熱欸那個魚都已經變成化石了化石用油炸一炸放點辣椒這些阿兵哥也是我們的子弟嘛好不好?有機會我請你吃一下青草的化石的帶魚給你吃好不好?"},{"start":9711.833,"end":9738.447,"text":"你吃吃看你就知道了我吃過我在馬祖服務過我知道部長你這個你注意一下好不好是好還最近一次部長跟主席黨請回我們教育部教育部勒最近發生什麼事啊崔世功有沒有啦五個變成兩個兩個變成勒兩個人力沒辦法炒菜啊好啦我們馬祖四鄉五島離島啊"},{"start":9740.54,"end":9770.196,"text":"小孩子沒飯吃了沒飯吃以後外面叫賣的什麼攤販賣香腸打香腸一堆就在校門口這一下生意搞好了學生家長就反彈不過那天在現場部長也跟我抱歉了部長馬上把這問題解決了63萬給了200多萬部長以後這個事情怎麼發現的又是民進黨的連江縣黨部又在罵我了說你這個立委怎麼搞的怎麼搞的"},{"start":9770.703,"end":9794.225,"text":"現在政府跟我什麼關係啊?這是你民進黨的單位啊?你的教育部啊?你的國立高中啊?關我們什麼事啊?部長你有注意一下好不好?學校的事情。這個我要謝謝委員,因為委員在217號當地了解這個情形,也召開那個很快的會議。還有船舶,船舶1.8公尺改為2公尺好不好?你注意一下。"},{"start":9808.723,"end":9812.107,"text":"謝謝陳委員學生的質詢。接下來我們請張委員齊凱質詢。"},{"start":9877.146,"end":9904.532,"text":"謝謝韓院長請陳院長麻煩請陳院長備詢張委員長恭喜張委員當選立委院長不曉得是不是該恭喜你今天最新的新聞說賴清德總統當選人問他的幕僚說想把你留下來這回事你本來要回中研院的你會有考慮520之後"},{"start":9906.387,"end":9934.1,"text":"繼續留下來當行政院長嗎?您也跟我很熟啦,那個學術研究一向是我的最愛。我是會要回到中央研究院從事我的學術研究。什麼狀況下有可能會留下來?沒有任何可能嗎?就是你確定是要回中研院?當然。包括賴清德來拜託你都不會留下來?我想對我來說我已經離開學術一段時間,我應該回去。"},{"start":9935.228,"end":9957.337,"text":"新聞裡面提到說可能拜託蔡英文蔡總統開口所以包括蔡英文蔡總統開口你都不會在520之後由現在當行政院長當時蔡總統請我當邀請我當行政院長的時候就是講好到520陪他一起同進退OK那我們就看看後續的這個狀況是怎麼樣那我們進入我們這個總諮詢院長還記得這一幕嗎記得謝謝你"},{"start":9965.467,"end":9989.615,"text":"這是你那時候當副總統的時候我邀請你到我的節目新聞追追追是我們那時候在討論這個年金改革那今天為什麼要有這一幕呢?因為那時候的陳建仁被稱為溫暖的大人哥我希望我現在是要溫暖而且要溝通而且要傾聽可是可是"},{"start":9991.121,"end":10003.788,"text":"院長你發現最近油電雙漲對人民的衝擊是很大的嗎?你會不會擔心溫暖的大人哥變成是一個漲價的院長?這會不會是你最後的歷史定位?"},{"start":10004.434,"end":10033.758,"text":"我想我不會是站這樣的院長我一向是願意傾聽願意來溝通願意協調但是我覺得如果在上個禮拜有些委員講的實在是不符合常理的時候我也應該要表達我個人對於這些不符合這一個特別是科學證據的一些回應我覺得科學是不容打著扣的啦"},{"start":10037,"end":10049.872,"text":"院長你的意思是水跟電是確定是要漲了嗎?你的任內520之前你要包括你的歷史定位變成是漲價的院長"},{"start":10051.833,"end":10077.762,"text":"你都一定要帶著崗位往前衝嗎?我想電費的部分其實是還蠻明確的就是說因為我們俄烏戰爭的關係那所有的燃料都上升所以現在台電是賣一度電就賠一度電在這樣的一個情況下我想為了要確保我們的經濟成長為了確保我們民生用電無虞"},{"start":10078.402,"end":10079.783,"text":"抱歉我提醒一下"},{"start":10107.072,"end":10135.254,"text":"現在是漲電價的好時機嗎?主席總署上個禮拜剛剛宣布我們的實質的總薪資創11年來收穫最大民間現在反對的聲音非常的大特別是會帶動物價你有沒有考慮過這個事情?我想我們也有做過評估如果政府有這一個挹注再加上漲部分的電價的話這樣台電才能夠比較有"},{"start":10138.755,"end":10164.899,"text":"所以我們在這一個部分還是請我們電價審議委員會來就全盤的情況來做評估我先提醒你一件事情好不好2012年的時候馬英九那時候提了油電雙漲你應該有印象我提醒你是有兩個因素第一個他在非洲訪問記者問他的時候他特別講"},{"start":10166.196,"end":10185.092,"text":"帶著鋼盔也要往前衝。他的心境看起來跟你是有點像的。第一個我更要提醒你馬英九從非洲回來以後他發現完全不對了不只民調掉到13%他上他是有做了某些改進的包括他去跟民間電廠談那個利息利率本來是8%都降到2%了"},{"start":10185.899,"end":10200.03,"text":"可是因為物價已經上去了,民念很深,你要不要好好再思考一下。這個部分我們會讓經濟部還有我們電價的審議委員會來討論。我看你這幾天你的講話看起來是要漲,而且幅度是不小。那我要提醒一個點,台電虧損,台電以前是經濟模。"},{"start":10213.277,"end":10223.624,"text":"是誰把他搞壞了?臺電現在這個虧損要人民來補嗎?要剝人民幾層皮呢?是不是應該回過頭先去把臺電的虧損原因把弄清楚,不是急著要漲價?"},{"start":10225.005,"end":10242.551,"text":"其實我們這個都有做非常詳細的在做評估那二五戰到現在如果委員我相信我也非常清楚很多歐美國家他們的這個電費的帳的幅度是非常非常高那台電一直吸收這個兩三年來的這個電費"},{"start":10244.512,"end":10247.434,"text":"你一直在強調戰爭跟國際因素造成的影響第二條線就是你一直在強調的"},{"start":10274.642,"end":10288.302,"text":"燃料成本對不對這是你們臺電跟經濟部的決算書裡面的資料燃料成本在什麼時候開始往下走110年是不是慢慢就往下走了"},{"start":10289.702,"end":10310.033,"text":"沒有其實整個我們的看起來是2022、2023的燃料成本其實是差不多的那主要是在2022的時候其實中油還有吸收請看這個趨勢圖台電有兩個很重要支出一個是燃料成本一個就是買電對不對第二條線中間這個黃色的線在"},{"start":10314.571,"end":10342.251,"text":"民國100年到110年確實是往上走的一個最高峰可是在110年的時候他就停住了往下走囉不是像你講的一直在往上走這是第一個點第二點我跟他請教你的當你的燃料成本往下降特別是燃煤特別是燃煤國際的燃煤已經往下掉的時候下面你台電去買電是不是應該跟著往下降"},{"start":10342.95,"end":10365.344,"text":"因為他也用到天然氣用到煤是不是這樣沒有錯但是因為我們有天然氣跟這個燃煤兩個所以我們整個看2022跟2023那2022其實前半年的天然氣其實還沒有中油沒有完全反應給台電所以如果就台電的購電的成本來講的話2022跟2023是差不多的"},{"start":10369.446,"end":10388.725,"text":"但是這裡講的4千多,我的理解應該是6千億左右。部長抱歉,這是你們的結算書喔。我要提醒一個點,這個是非常清楚的。當燃料成本往下,慢慢往下掉的時候,你們會發現非常奇怪,為什麼台電去買電是往上走的?"},{"start":10390.126,"end":10400.255,"text":"為什麼我們如果沒有錯台電的買電的部分當然有一部分是買綠電是買綠電那我買綠電呢從2022的500多億到2023年的900億是沒有錯有增加"},{"start":10407.26,"end":10429.917,"text":"但是發展綠電也是臺灣一定要去走的路那前半段前面這幾年呢臺灣就綠電的環境用等購費率等等來讓這個整個綠色的產業能夠發展起來那現在慢慢的特別委員也知道離岸風電已經全部都是直接用民間來購電了那太陽光電呢"},{"start":10431.878,"end":10461.11,"text":"所以部長你剛才回答就印證了兩件事情第一個你每次都講國際因素事實上這個不是那麼重要的對不對第二個更重要當他影響沒有那麼大的時候往下掉的時候為什麼要往上走是買了太多甚至是太貴的電我給你看一個數目字好不好"},{"start":10462.483,"end":10462.843,"text":"上個禮拜院長一直搖頭上個禮拜"},{"start":10491.267,"end":10506.484,"text":"臺南的八十八槍光電這個案子那個主嫌昂貴才判了10年。前兩年光是跟光電有關的至少起訴了60件喔。所以他有兩個問題一個是為什麼那麼好賺跟台電台電虧損那麼多還要拿那麼多錢去補。"},{"start":10508.885,"end":10528.989,"text":"那我們的錢去補可是只要臺電去買的都買的那麼貴而且發生幣安安。欸跟委員報告齁事實上那個短過匯率齁其實裡面有非常多的專家我們用非常精確的成本來算那當然他有一點利潤但是你不能說他是暴利那臺電自己發的太陽能力成本比較低因為"},{"start":10529.549,"end":10555.64,"text":"因為臺電是用自己的土地來做太陽能的這個我了解可是會不會太高了為什麼會發生弊案為什麼一段時間你就會出現很多光電的這個是不是應該院長我們現在要賬人民的錢要賬電價結果人民現在看到的是什麼你臺電去買的電是太貴了你看看最近的新聞光是一個過年光電的那些公司發了年終賬金他的紅利"},{"start":10558.3,"end":10562.869,"text":"欸當台電這麼辛苦的時候台電以前是一個很好的公司體質很好的公司是個經濟模欸"},{"start":10564.465,"end":10568.088,"text":"我們當然在所有的電價審議委員會在討論的過程當中我們當然也會就臺電的這個支出的部分包括購電的部分包括發電的部分做同盤的檢討"},{"start":10593.567,"end":10612.493,"text":"讓這個審議委員會來做了解但是剛才講的這些風力也好太陽能也好這個發電出來的東西都是因為有等受這個電價的關係才會有比較高那當時會有這樣的決定也是為了要讓國外的電廠還有國內的電廠願意來投資這個綠電的發展謝謝院長另外我再補充一下就是說實際上這個綠電"},{"start":10621.116,"end":10623.658,"text":"院長跟部長你們有一個真相沒有跟我們前名講沒有跟我們台灣人民講第一個"},{"start":10648.502,"end":10668.185,"text":"最近的這個價格還是往上走對不對買綠電的錢現在進入高峰期喔所以你明年不只今年要錢有虧損明年後年大後年至少未來5年在再生能源這一塊虧損會更大對不對這是第一個點第二個你們到目前沒有看到你們解決方案阿"},{"start":10669.039,"end":10685.246,"text":"你們現在談的是什麼2025要增加到20%那現在這個時間現在才18 9.9虧損已經這麼大你們要跟人民講清楚人民這是給了你錢漲了定價或者給你補貼之後未來5年漏洞會更大要不要跟人民講清楚"},{"start":10686.026,"end":10708.291,"text":"欸事實上發展再生能源臺灣其實已經走得很慢了那發展再生能源的時候那相關的這個部分臺灣當然要去支持這個再生能源的產業但是我剛才講了現在已經越來越多都已經直接賣給民間的企業不是用等購費率的部分所以這個部分呢臺電"},{"start":10709.731,"end":10735.986,"text":"我們在維持的時候穩定但是也會一直讓他稀釋出去賣民間所以我想委員對不應該是說再生能源要走回頭路啦這個還是台灣要走了台灣已經是比較慢了再生能源院長跟部長講我完全贊成我們支持再生能源可是我們反對買太貴給太多錢特別是在台電虧損這麼嚴重的時候第二個弊端頻傳所以我們很明確的要求"},{"start":10736.943,"end":10737.724,"text":"我們再看臺電最主要是兩個一個是外面買電對不對"},{"start":10764.38,"end":10790.882,"text":"另外一個看買了什麼電,我們再看民間電廠。民間電廠是第一天會議做總統的時候,本來要把台電要把它民營化。那後來為什麼去買電,包括9家民營電廠?就是為了效率,為了把價格降低嗎?結果你從這條線看出來,我們買的電都還是太貴。要給一定的利潤,業界認為有多少利潤是合理的?10%以內。可是我們買的都太貴,這是一個點。第二個,請大家看一下這個表。院長,看這個表。"},{"start":10793.646,"end":10818.651,"text":"臺電本身也用燃煤他一度是多少錢3.57到了112年的時候降到3.43臺電的燃煤成本是降低的可是臺電去跟民間的業者買電的時候跟民間電廠買電的時候3.69不只沒有降為什麼攀升到4.15"},{"start":10822.152,"end":10832.185,"text":"我們自己的燃料也降了,國際的趨勢也是降了,臺電自己自發的成本也是降了。請跟我說,請跟我講清楚,為什麼我們去跟民間電廠買的,反而是往上走。"},{"start":10833.323,"end":10859.24,"text":"跟委員報告這個其實都有非常專業的算計那我們也不會說這個都莫名其妙就給民間這個不應該給的這個費用但是民間該有的利潤是有可是絕對不會無緣無故給他增加那這個都有很細緻的一個算法那所以相關的怎麼算那相關的情形如果委員要我們也可以提供委員相關的"},{"start":10865.224,"end":10885.337,"text":"委員我想這個怎麼樣去算出來這個價錢經濟部一定有一套的這個的算法那今天的時間的關係我們請經濟部在質詢完以後在大的環境裡面燃煤再往下掉對不對第二個你如果就台電自己發電跟去買的這很簡單的一個比較啊"},{"start":10886.097,"end":10905.345,"text":"對,但是剛才講過,我們要給...其實我們都很清楚嘛,委員你不要還清楚,當我們的發電量很大的跟民間發電量小的時候,那個成本其實不完全一樣嘛,我們...對嘛,這個我想我們都可以了解,所以臺電的發電的價錢,"},{"start":10908.046,"end":10908.987,"text":"我到委員會我還是進一步要再推這個案"},{"start":10937.822,"end":10947.852,"text":"公開的一定都會提供給委員對那我們再看另外一個下一張院長你看所有的發電裡面哪個最便宜"},{"start":10951.653,"end":10952.833,"text":"但是不能夠再留子孫"},{"start":10972.218,"end":10989.824,"text":"我還把你試算了一下,因為你一直在發展再生能源,我說再生能源我們是支持的,可是不要發生弊案,不要買太貴,這是一個最重要的原則。那相對的,既然有很便宜的電,核能一度電成本才1.39,你現在不是在講虧損嗎?"},{"start":10991.448,"end":11009.669,"text":"你如果用核能的話你可以賺錢欸每發一度核能的電你是賺錢的那你為什麼要把它停下來呢我再幫你試算一個更恐怖的數字好不好這段時間你去買再生能源的如果用最便宜的核能計算都花了582億"},{"start":11012.622,"end":11041.954,"text":"那你現在你還要把核電慢慢還要,今年核三廠可能就要退,就要除以了對不對?委員就表示明年我覺得院長跟部長你們有責任跟民眾講清楚,臺電不只是去年虧損民眾,今年虧損民眾在你們能源政策之下,明年後年大後年至少或未來的五年,因為核能的這個變成零,虧損會越來越大怎麼辦?這真相要跟臺灣人民講清楚吧?好"},{"start":11042.745,"end":11059.164,"text":"委員那個和一和二和三當時在建設的時候就已經講好說他的服役期間是有多長那現在我們會讓他除役就是因為時間已經到了嘛40年到了嘛所以我們就是除役這是很早以前就訂定下來的這個規定那"},{"start":11061.546,"end":11077.897,"text":"委員講的是說好那核能很好可是這裡面剛才講的核廢料的處理是未來的成本還有廚藝是成本很高另外一個很重要的就是說在未來的這幾年如果我們貴黨有提到說核能要研議"},{"start":11078.797,"end":11094.029,"text":"那如果何能要研議即使要研議的話不是說我今天到期的時候我說研議就可以繼續發電不可以喔還需要有2到4年的時間才能夠來繼續發電這是按照這個安全的規定嘛"},{"start":11094.489,"end":11108.194,"text":"所以而且核能現在佔台灣的發電的這個佔比是相當的低的所以他對電價的影響度還是沒有我們所謂的電這個燃氣燃煤的這個影響因為他佔了90%"},{"start":11110.615,"end":11136.482,"text":"所以這樣子可以看起來的話,如果整個電價未來的結構都一定是受到國際燃料的影響。院長你聽過一句話吧,錯誤的政策比貪污更恐怖、更可怕。我不能講說你今天完全是錯誤的,可是至少遠征征的,我覺得院長跟部長今天有責任,要跟我們台灣的民眾講清楚。因為你現在要漲電價,人民已經被你包好幾層皮了,因為現在如果物價漲、電價又漲,"},{"start":11139.409,"end":11166.182,"text":"很多人是很苦的,今天院長站在上面,院長的名言是什麼?莫忘世上苦人頭,對不對?找完電架之後特別是民生又更苦,就是因為大家很苦的同時你們要仗那你們我剛講過了,你要跟民間電廠買的要透明公開,對不對?第二個跟太陽能跟再生能源你也是要清楚,第三個明明有一個"},{"start":11167.352,"end":11167.552,"text":"可以省錢"},{"start":11188.955,"end":11205.002,"text":"現在核能廠廚藝是依法規定的嘛你40年到來你就是要廚藝嘛那你現在如果說好假設就像您講的一樣就是說不廚藝要研藝的話那我們是不是要有研藝的法律的依據嘛對不對"},{"start":11205.942,"end":11212.327,"text":"提了以後我還是要強調那個核安的部分就是說你一個到了40年以後他要開始去繼續發電是需要有安全檢查國外的經驗大概都是2到5年的時間大部分都是5年"},{"start":11232.023,"end":11255.422,"text":"那所以為什麼要5年前就要申請研議嘛可是5年前申請研議的時間就是為了要這5年的期間來做安全檢查讓他截止那一天你講的依法這個當然一定不會違背嘛所以包括國民黨包括民眾黨都已經提案子了嘛對不對這個我們要共同努力我今天的執行重點是窟窿這麼大你們要跟大家講"},{"start":11255.942,"end":11258.164,"text":"我們一定會跟在考量所有的電價的時候跟以前齁"},{"start":11272.414,"end":11297.212,"text":"你講的前總統在調電價的時候是不一樣的因為我們看歷次你看我們調建價的時候都會考慮到民生用電大小商店的用電還有不同產業用電還有產業是在上升的這個狀況好的還是下降的我們都會有很仔細的來這樣的決定電價的調整原因就是讓產業能夠繼續永續讓民生不會受到影響"},{"start":11300.134,"end":11325.907,"text":"這就是我們在調電價的時候希望我們的審議委員會做很精緻的調整這是我們會努力來做委員你講的說要說清楚讓我們賣誰不知道這一定要大家一定要了解要不然的話我們是一定要帶慷慨但是我們就是說要好好的跟大家說理為什麼要這樣調說理清楚了大家也可以說共體時間這是我們要努力的"},{"start":11326.887,"end":11355.603,"text":"所以部長跟院長我提了三個可以讓電價不見得要漲的方案你們聽完之後到底有沒有可能這一次的要嘛就不要漲要嘛的話至少讓民生不要漲有沒有可能性如果你照我剛剛那個改革其實有很多錢是可以省下來的啊應該從改革做起把成本把它降低啊不是急著要去讓人民被撥老幾層皮啊有沒有可能民生不要330度以下不要漲這可能性存不存在"},{"start":11356.804,"end":11370.679,"text":"這個要專家委員會去評估啦,我們現在講齁,我們若沒數字齁,直接用嘴講齁,這樣不夠苛刻啦。苛刻的齁,比較有基礎的講法,就是講要有重大懲罰。你對民生用電,"},{"start":11378.798,"end":11398.403,"text":"第一個我們當然第一個確實臺電的這樣的虧損還是需要政府的裁員的益助。第二個那個店家我們會召開小組來討論。那現在就是對民生的用電確實我們很久很久都沒有帳。已經20年所以你這次如果調的為什麼我剛剛講會被帳下廉的。20年沒有人敢調的。"},{"start":11402.004,"end":11427.491,"text":"現在的物價上漲又這麼嚴重。現在的政府要去調它嗎?相關的這個惡霧戰爭之後整個電價的成本跟在過往的電價成本早期電價成本可能兩塊兩塊多一點但是現在電價的成本其實是差不多四塊左右那這個對我們已經長期因為體恤這個比較這個一般的民眾所以很久很久都沒有賬那所以這個我們會通盤去檢討"},{"start":11429.972,"end":11442.802,"text":"所以通盤檢討是不仗可能性的存在嗎?不仗的可能性是不是存在?我們會通盤來看這個相關的情形。委員你講的那是一個方案,這個方案如何比較好當然要有措辭,這措辭要有討論,讓專家來討論可能比較適合"},{"start":11455.131,"end":11477.749,"text":"而不是我們今天在這裡也沒有數據的依據來做但是我們我想在這裡要講我們在調整電價的這個過程當中一定會考慮到怎麼樣讓這一個民生用電的影響最小而且不要影響到物價的上升而且我們實際上也主計總署有在估算說這個電價調漲"},{"start":11481.071,"end":11495.08,"text":"謝謝院長,請記得把剛剛要的資料一個禮拜內給我,跟民間電廠沒買太貴了。第二個閉案怎麼去去除,跟整個公開透明。那我再問你一個,我再請教一個跟經濟發展很有關係的,台積電要繞腳到嘉義,台積電要繞腳到嘉義。"},{"start":11500.126,"end":11523.16,"text":"到底會不會跳票?之前賴清德總統當選人到嘉義的時候,他是說要潛力去促成。你們兩位會幫忙嗎?我想台積電到嘉義這件事情,我們會積極來努力。目前也已經有我們相關的部會或者是相關的就是我們副院長也有去協調。這個部分我們樂觀其成。"},{"start":11528.025,"end":11530.127,"text":"我們事實上對台積電在臺灣包括這個先進的製程包括先進的封裝等等我們都會讓他在臺灣落腳"},{"start":11542.918,"end":11571.038,"text":"那這個部分有時候相關的投資案會有需要廠商來宣布比較好但是對政府來講他在哪裡是合適做什麼產業我們都會跟產業界做詳細的溝通現在看起來照他園區的這個規定先進的風車廠是可以的所以我們全力爭取當然我知道主委有提到可能一寸經驗下可能有困難可是環評我們是會努力那謝謝院長跟這個部長的這個支持另外我再問一個嘉義的事情"},{"start":11571.724,"end":11582.755,"text":"現在一直在爭取一個輕軌,為高鐵太保站一枚加機器的這次。他那個報告已經到那個院長那邊嘛。院長、行政院這邊會支持這個輕軌嗎?他的載量已經從ROD那個是過的對不對?超過5萬人了。"},{"start":11587.594,"end":11596.179,"text":"國產只要講你支持就好了,你不用再講了。我們已經有撥了1290萬,請他做可行性的。所以基本上未來轉輕軌,我們支持這個方向。請嘉義市政府趕快提出這個報告。"},{"start":11613.008,"end":11616.709,"text":"請問一下,嘉義市鐵路高架化那筆錢,陳水扁總統到了嘉義市親親手手跟我們說的那38億是?"},{"start":11627.13,"end":11633.274,"text":"陳水扁總統那個時候答應的因為時代的變遷再加上我們已經有很多不同的在蓋這個高價化的時候都有新的規範所以這個部分我請部長說明一下"},{"start":11656.83,"end":11679.202,"text":"現在大概這樣,原來38億這個也是經過跟嘉義市政府討論的結果那現在多了10億齁我們現在初步是因為嘉義的財政負擔他原來從這個3級現在降回4級所以一個是補86%一個補84%所以我們現在初步就是因為總的預算是比較高國產理事會幫忙多少?就是2%可以討論現在2%多2%可以討論所以2%嗎?能不能再補出多一點?"},{"start":11685.986,"end":11688.391,"text":"現在因為我們必須全國有一樣的規則這是全國性的規定48.2億"},{"start":11720.355,"end":11734,"text":"謝謝張委員、齊凱的質詢。謝謝陳院長。報告院會上午質詢到此為止。本次會議未有委員提出臨時提案,就不進行臨時提案之處理。下午2點30分繼續開會,進行質詢。現在休息。謝謝。"},{"start":21279.087,"end":21280.384,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":21619.059,"end":21620.361,"text":"報告院會現在我們繼續開會。接下來我們請許委員複會質詢。"},{"start":21646.741,"end":21671.556,"text":"謝謝院長,我們有請我們行政院長跟我們的交通部武漢部長麻煩請陳院長備詢交通部報告部委員,武漢恭喜你當選立法委員,真是恭喜謝謝院長本期來自國進之南的屏東,那我想院長跟部長也常常到屏東來洽公"},{"start":21674.77,"end":21701.87,"text":"請教院長跟部長所以從不管從我們的潘賢縣長到我們的周春美縣長那我想我們長期在針對我們屏東的交通建設的這一塊真的要請我們行政院跟交通部要搭理的幫忙啦尤其我想我們屏東人不應該是騎尾保水那我想我們提出的交通品權"},{"start":21702.466,"end":21719.667,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":21719.929,"end":21733.459,"text":"我們要發展所謂的區域的經濟發展那區域的經濟發展最重要的要件最要改革的就是交通的問題我想這個院長應該是認同的因為如果交通不解決會連帶影響到我們整個經濟也好農業的發展也好甚至我們醫療的問題那所以本市這邊有幾項議題要請我們的院長跟部長來做一個答覆"},{"start":21746.048,"end":21772.754,"text":"那我想未來也希望我們的行政院跟交通部還有我們的屏東縣政府我們共同為了屏東的建設來共同的來努力那首先請教我們的院長我們的屏南快速道路這條我們鄉村叫做九名路那我想這一條屏南快速道路交通部在去年底已經將可行性評估已經報到院裡面審查那請教院長"},{"start":21773.339,"end":21800.541,"text":"我們相關計畫的一個期程目前進度如何?現在就是因為可行性評估已經送到院方來現在我們請這一個國發會來做這個審議的工作那如果可行性評估核定以後呢就會繼續接著辦綜合規劃還有環評跟施工的作業那順利的話呢可能可以在這一個126年的時候完工通車啦"},{"start":21801.884,"end":21814.621,"text":"委員長每次本席聽到這個交通規劃的時間跟完工的時間都要很等這聽下去真的是不是本席的問題是我們鄉親那個期待值真的會覺得說"},{"start":21816.964,"end":21830.374,"text":"為什麼我們總是屏東要一條交通建設這麼樣的困難?委員報告啦,實際上這個米蘭要做綜合規劃環評含施工,這部份有我們中央行政院來合作,看能不能把它的期程能不能把它縮減。但是當然現在他們在整個的情形就是按照過去,"},{"start":21839.701,"end":21844.185,"text":"本席是希望說是不是院長可以做一個採詢,請交通部跟我們相關的針對環評期程可以同步進行嗎?"},{"start":21859.841,"end":21862.704,"text":"其實國發會也好,還是交通部也好,他們都有主動的這個施政。是,報告委員因為現在那個"},{"start":21875.998,"end":21880.801,"text":"我再請教一下主委跟部長這邊我們有沒有可能採分段施工分段進行的方式加快期產來進行?"},{"start":21905.363,"end":21922.49,"text":"我們第一階段到香港第二階段到恆春那香港的部分就是我們現在第一階段先積極來進行因為那邊就是台九跟台一的分界而且是比較塞的路段那剛才談到就是說從現在開始6年大概做二階環評跟這個綜合規劃"},{"start":21925.411,"end":21946.41,"text":"當然就是它裡面也有談到也有算到這二階環評的時間你知道它的環評的這個敏感度可能要我們要去突破那另外就是有用地取得兩年真正它施工期只有五年而已啦前陣子都是那個前置座位但是剛剛院長有特別提到就是我們能縮短就盡量把它縮短"},{"start":21950.223,"end":21970.719,"text":"這個部長我想是這樣子,當然就是就我們鄉親的期待值來講,每個人都聽到這個環評的時間也好,還是這個施工的期待值也好,真的大家聽了都猶豫,所以這個要特別拜託我們部裡面,是不是跟我們的院長這邊能夠請我們相關部會能夠加快速度,這真的一定是要,"},{"start":21971.343,"end":21993.864,"text":"我們的救命路要拜託院長這邊要大力的幫忙我們會盡全力讓各部會一起來努力好那我想這個部分再麻煩這個時間點能不要聽到126年真的是很久很久了好那第二個部分我要請教我們針對表雄捷運延伸到我們屏東的部分那我想這一條我們在"},{"start":21996.48,"end":22017.078,"text":"平東鄉親也期待20年了,那我們目前有規劃了幾條的路線,那我想這幾條的路線110年7月份我們交通部這邊有一部分的部分有做核備,那我想目前也請部長說明一下我們目前我們小港、東港、林邊線還有其他路線目前的進度。"},{"start":22019.457,"end":22045.042,"text":"目前就是高雄紅線現在延伸到臨沿我們現在從臨沿到大鵬灣然後繼續往東港這邊來走目前是在做可行性因為過去有一段時間是在談紅線的延伸但是後來在縣政府跟市政府討論是覺得說那一段是另外一個系統"},{"start":22046.324,"end":22074.896,"text":"所以未來會在臨沿有一個轉層但是轉層在臺北我也知道很方便同業臺是很方便所以也沒什麼感覺那目前我們過的時間如果從現在開始應該是也是10年的時間因為裡面也一樣現在來就是中國規劃環評還有包括用地取得跟施工大概也要10年的時間現在部長我們鄉親也最關心的一車到底"},{"start":22076.672,"end":22104.641,"text":"目前是沒有一車到底,會在剛才談到在林園會做一個轉乘,但是我們現在捷運都會在盡量做到同業台轉乘,這意思說你車到的時候另外一邊的車也到了,就走過來而已這樣,大概類似這樣。我可以向委員報告一下,其實雖然沒有一車到底,但是你如果轉乘很方便的時候,沒有感覺,我們另外一個很重要的就是,那也未來還有延伸其他可能性,"},{"start":22106.813,"end":22129.691,"text":"我再請教院長,除了這個小港到東港臨濱之外,我們另外還有一個大寮、萬丹、潮州縣,還有一個大寮、屏東縣跟左營道、屏東縣,這三條的進度是不是請補充來說明一下?這個補充在那個屏東縣政府的整體路網裡面放下去,但是他個別的路線還沒有送到交通部。"},{"start":22130.401,"end":22150.86,"text":"他是在整體入行裡面有這幾條那現在就是縣政府看哪一個是優先優先送進來那目前他們是以這一個延伸延伸到這個大鵬灣這條是當他的優先路線後邊管政院什麼也不會我們就來處理我們會盡量的協助"},{"start":22151.906,"end":22155.908,"text":"現在就好像高雄捷運南線延伸有上來了,啊剩下這三條就要看管政府如果做好,那個可行性"},{"start":22173.177,"end":22175.998,"text":"我印象最深刻我們潘孟安前縣長2005年"},{"start":22199.667,"end":22202.289,"text":"我請教院長跟部長,到底我們現在高鐵難演的屏東的進度如何?"},{"start":22216.628,"end":22235.411,"text":"今天做環評跟綜合規劃,現在大概整個路線都已經確定了,到六塊處。那六塊處現在在行政這邊也把它做成一個特定區。其實你看六塊處那邊開始都有一些建設在做了。"},{"start":22236.144,"end":22259.455,"text":"所以大概端點就是到這個六塊處大概是這樣目前就是按照我們行程應該是本席很納悶的事我們好像最近幾年每隔一段時間就會聽到媒體有一些關於這個路線也好關於我們部裡面也有一些雜音也好弄這樣陸續的報導那到底我們現在路線到底定案了沒有"},{"start":22260.579,"end":22283.559,"text":"目前可行性已經定案不進入高雄市區目前當然在前一陣子也有高雄的立委在談說可不可以考慮到進到市區比如說我們走雲走到高雄鳳山到屏東但是這個問題就是說進入高雄市區有牽涉到二次施工就鐵路地下化有二次施工的問題"},{"start":22285.401,"end":22286.962,"text":"所以原本的左營案還有辦法就對了?"},{"start":22304.224,"end":22306.005,"text":"我們在2019交通部的對外宣布"},{"start":22332.284,"end":22361.193,"text":"我們要2029年要通車這個目標我看目前為止如果到現在都沒時間不可能了嗎?會完成吧?現在目標也是潮州那邊來建築因為他已經到環平的尾端了已經做一陣子了環境影響評估之後再繼續那另外我們鄉親也另外一個關心的部分除了他又快速之外有沒有可能難言到潮州因為我們的"},{"start":22362.88,"end":22388.982,"text":"蘇貞昌前院長來屏東的時候,包括賴總統說的這個部分,我們相信也在關心這個部分,是不是有做這樣的規劃?其實委員進入兵棟你就說得很對,就是說你進入屏東,我出不來了,可是你要跳一堆出來,所以在六塊柱當時就是預留是往南沿的這個空間,你在說的是很對的,就是說不進入市區就準備要南沿的那個留下彈性,"},{"start":22389.807,"end":22401.161,"text":"因為你沒到中秋,未來我們要連接到東部,會困難重重,所以這部分還是要請院長跟部長,這個我們努力的目標,2029年這部分真的要趕快點燃,趕快點燃"},{"start":22404.14,"end":22412.066,"text":"對,當然現在就是六個主席一定會做選擇,民眾到中心這裏到底要怎麼做,這很多討論,你看很多個體都想過這個鄉庭的地方,像台南也好,"},{"start":22423.815,"end":22442.391,"text":"不叫新國中心區,這就要有我們的管政府也要看我們這裡的鄉鎮地方、這裡的地方的頭人做個討論,看怎麼比較好。所以說這其實我也希望說管政府如果有這個想法,還有委員有這個建議,來想好,看要怎麼進行。如果地方的意見有議題,這樣當然就會更快。"},{"start":22449.456,"end":22463.027,"text":"這還是要特別請院長跟部長幫忙,我覺得我們一段時間應該要有一個進度出來,要有鄉親一個交代,不然大家都要望眼欲穿,還沒到一個好的結果。委員很認真,推動這裡的屏東的道路也好,軌道的建設也好,都很認真。我當然像剛才你說過,"},{"start":22472.535,"end":22484.582,"text":"謝謝院長,因為我相信院長對屏東也很疼愛,這真的是我們平安相信所有人的期待我們的平安的交通建設,屏東的交通建設,而不把任督而脈打通真的屏東的發展,永遠都是站不住的保水,這部分真的請院長多幫忙。"},{"start":22501.345,"end":22530.466,"text":"那因為時間關係那針對大鵬灣的未來的開發還有我們墾丁國家公園的建設武通的問題那我想這部分也要特別請我們交通部的王部長還有我們內政部的林部長針對這個相關大鵬灣的開發跟坑管處所面臨一些民怨的問題是不是可以來近來加快速度尤其大鵬灣的部分就是所謂的一些公共基礎的建設速度拖延"},{"start":22530.882,"end":22552.662,"text":"然後從2019年臺灣登會結束之後,聽到在爬風,就在鄉親都在歡領。那墾丸處的問題就是所謂的一個部落化出這個國家公園範圍的部分,那當然這個也有政壇兩面的意見。那這部分也要請我們的內政部加快武統的速度啦,可以讓這個問題改觀,不要讓白色在那"},{"start":22554.156,"end":22556.516,"text":"謝謝許委員的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請謝委員依奉質詢。"},{"start":22595.297,"end":22598.666,"text":"謝謝韓院長。我們是不是請陳建仁院長。請陳院長備詢。"},{"start":22606.232,"end":22623.098,"text":"是午安。恭喜你當選連任。謝謝。即使是連任,我們還是要從選前。我們選前的院會其實我有質詢,就是關於2025年的台紐經濟合作協定會導致就是紐西蘭的紐魯林關稅的進口。"},{"start":22625.339,"end":22643.728,"text":"那這是2030年7月時候所有臺灣諾農他們的連署書喔。他們希望政府可以協助他們,把他們找到產業未來發展的方向。那我想請問,去年我們也是同樣就是我們三位嘛。"},{"start":22644.628,"end":22662.817,"text":"我想請問當初我們的目標是希望臺灣的牛乳自主力還是可以達到7成那以目前為止你們的目標有沒有改變選前選後我想這件事情我們部長有積極的在跟諾龍有做相關的討論我請他做一個回答"},{"start":22663.403,"end":22686.65,"text":"我跟委員說明,針對臺灣的牛乳因應臺牛的自由領館罪進口的部分,我們大概已經從去年的9月到現在已經開了6次的會議,跟洛農本身的協調。我們也擬定了整個洛農精進的一個計畫抱怨。主要的內容大概分為幾個部分。"},{"start":22687.93,"end":22706.317,"text":"第一個部分就是委員所關心的就是我們未來台灣的牛奶本身的自給率的部分那現在目前國內的牛乳的部分大概是46萬噸但是在短期之內因為我們現在把一些比較寡產的這個乳牛做一些淘汰"},{"start":22706.877,"end":22709.578,"text":"因為我們現在的牛奶量是不是很多?因為從我們夏季的牛乳開始就發生了供過於求的這樣子的問題"},{"start":22728.644,"end":22744.184,"text":"是不是?那這個問題目前怎麼解決?所以你們當初在選前有承諾糯農協會承諾那些糯農的朋友你們要補助每一頭牛就是淘汰乳牛2.5萬是不是?"},{"start":22746.107,"end":22774.706,"text":"對,我們就是寡產的牛,不是全部寡,就是它產乳的量比較低的這些牛,寡產的牛我們會有一個就是淘汰的一個機制,對有一個淘汰的機制,那淘汰部分我們會做一些補助,那同樣的就是 那補助是多少?我們現在原來規劃大概是兩萬五左右,但是我們整個的經費現在在抱怨在審核當中,最後的經費我相信我們一定會為弱農爭取最大的一個量,會不會跳票?"},{"start":22775.997,"end":22802.625,"text":"他已經在申請了嘛。會不會跳票啊?院長會不會跳票?當然,我們說話算話。不會跳票嘛。那我是不是再請衛福部長,因為其實我們在上一次的時候也提到了,就是說如果未來紐西蘭的這個牛乳進入了台灣的能源系統,你們兩個說法是不一的。我不知道你們現在檢驗的標準已經合而為一了沒有?不要在台灣裡面搞兩次嘛,一國兩制嘛。"},{"start":22803.665,"end":22822.199,"text":"我想基本上我們第一個最重要的目標就是要讓我們的消費者認同我們台灣的牛奶所以我們針對標章的部分台灣乳的標章的部分我們已經重新設計了而且也經過酪農跟消費者本身的一個評選那是就台灣先入的部分對台灣的部分對"},{"start":22823.12,"end":22840.301,"text":"但是如果進入冷鏈系統未來紐西蘭的牛乳如果進入臺灣的冷鏈系統裡面當初我們衛福部薛部長也是薛部長你說以目前你們的檢驗方法是沒有辦法區分紐西蘭的牛乳跟臺灣的鮮乳"},{"start":22841.762,"end":22855.357,"text":"我根本不能報告,這個部分在續產會本,我們本身的續產試驗所已經開發出來的臺灣乳跟國外進口的乳的一個區別,這個技術已經有了。那如果他們是mix,就是說在冷電系統裡面已經mix了,"},{"start":22857.219,"end":22878.617,"text":"那你們有辦法檢驗出來嗎?我們可以查得出來所以我們現在透過標準的方式但是未來但是你們的續產所可以但是未來到了市場以後甚至到了各縣市以後都是由衛福部以及各縣市的衛生所去做集合的工作對不對?"},{"start":22880.639,"end":22904.755,"text":"不過這要標示啦,從進來開始。我知道,可是未來到時候也會有集合的動作啊。那集合的動作是採衛福部的標準還是採農業部的標準?我想整個的標章制度是由衛福部這邊規範的。那進口跟國產的區分只要它是混的,然後沒有標示的時候,那就是違法。"},{"start":22905.802,"end":22927.25,"text":"那第二個部分我要跟委員說明的就是違法違法是一件事情我當然知道只要混的就是違法但是如果混的你沒有辦法查的時候那你怎麼知道他違法我跟委員說明齁後市場的查那個是需要比較耗費大的人力跟物力所以我們現在設計是說我們在源頭的時候爐廠的時候我們台灣爐標章的時候"},{"start":22935.277,"end":22952.574,"text":"委員你現在講的就是說我們如果有這個牛乳的履歷然後有牛乳的標章然後看是台灣牛還是有西南牛你現在擔心的就是說有一些人少數的人他會去混用但是混用抓到當然就處罰"},{"start":22954.155,"end":22981.846,"text":"問題是怎麼抓?問題是怎麼抓?我們現在可以講檢驗的方式嗎?問題是到時候是採怎麼樣的檢驗方式嗎?那農業部應該既然農業部現在認為他們已經有辦法查核這樣子就是把就是未來外國的牛乳混沖成臺灣的鮮奶的時候那這樣子查核的機制總要給大家知道嘛"},{"start":22982.546,"end":22986.168,"text":"我們的技術一定要經過衛福部這邊經過一個程序認可以後就變成一個公告的法定的方法"},{"start":23007.961,"end":23008.561,"text":"我知道啊,我就是在問你說"},{"start":23036.809,"end":23057.936,"text":"你們這個部分要統合清楚嘛,是不是?到時候檢查的才不會標準不一嘛。他們去年說法是不一的嘛。去年是因為還沒有這個方法嘛,那現在已經統一了嘛。所以委員你不用擔心,我們一定不會各步走各的路,一定是整合在一起。"},{"start":23059.022,"end":23076.116,"text":"還有我們還提到了就是畜牧業的廢棄物那不只是就是不只是一般的廢棄物甚至是他們的糞尿的這個廢棄物其實目前民眾對於這些廢棄物的處理方式還是大有疑慮"},{"start":23076.957,"end":23078.798,"text":"我跟委員說明就是整個"},{"start":23101.272,"end":23124.018,"text":"續產的部分的這些廢棄物我們現在把它把它稱為農業剩餘資材因為它還可以再利用的部分然後這個再利用的部分我舉個例子就是養豬場本身的那些過去一直被詬病的那個情緒那樣的污水我們現在用高床的處理高床的處理的話就減少的用水那相對的它整個污水量就會變少然後把這些"},{"start":23124.818,"end":23147.096,"text":"那個情緒分量本身就發變。 那你們到底處理了多少?我們彰化縣你們處理了多少?你們補助了多少續設?你們做了多少這樣子高床的設施減少就是這樣子就是他們這些資材的那一種。 我可能要查但是以整體來講就是整個畜牧場裡面有大概有4"},{"start":23148.477,"end":23165.114,"text":"應該就2000多場在申請在改建了那totally大概有5000多場所以已經將近有三成的全國來講將近有三成的這些養豬場已經在做這樣的一個改善的部分張嬅有多少張嬅我想廢後我們廢後再提供給你廢後我再提供給你數字給你阿"},{"start":23171.241,"end":23192.524,"text":"對啊,執行完我們再給委員報告。對啊,那環境部呢?環境部你們到底在協助這部分,你們還是用潮運車,那有沒有更先進的方式呢?因為潮運車去運送這個過程當中還是會產生就是不必要的衛道啊或者是髒亂也好,那怎麼樣子減少這部分?"},{"start":23193.526,"end":23199.968,"text":"那如果你們現在已經未來你們預估的方式是採用在地利用,我甚至不知道你們在地利用這個方式到520之後會不會改變?"},{"start":23218.839,"end":23240.931,"text":"這個政策應該是不會改變,因為資源的循環事實上是未來的一個趨勢。我想這個農業沒有廢棄物啦,農業資源這些剩餘資產的這個再利用我們是一定是一貫的,而且不管是在現在或者520以後當然是因為還是仍然同一個"},{"start":23243.069,"end":23245.138,"text":"政黨在執政嗎?怎麼可能會改變?"},{"start":23249.822,"end":23275.817,"text":"這個是2024年1月22號我們嘉義縣的翁縣長他說的他說在嘉義台塘有非常多的地可以歡迎台積電來利用那我想請問為什麼我們在選前的時候也積極在爭取我們彰化縣也有非常多台塘的土地那甚至在這個我們20也希望設置20精密機械園區"},{"start":23277.418,"end":23295.496,"text":"像設置惡靈精密機械園區這樣子的難道是臺堂的農地發展成工業區的條件是不是跨縣市有不同選前選後有不同到時候換政府就是換政府執政的時候會不會有不同"},{"start":23296.107,"end":23318.727,"text":"委員你講話不必要這樣講我想讓我們部長來說明我先跟委員說明就是惡靈機械的精密園區本身事實上在97年就開始有一些相關的一個環評的一個審查那現在最大的一個問題就是在這個園區裡面它有所謂的兩種鳥類就是那個黑"},{"start":23319.668,"end":23341.3,"text":"黑尾煙還有一個雁橫這兩個保育類的鳥類必須要做適當的一個解決方案讓這個棲地能夠得以維持那目前為止到了大概去年12月的時候彰化縣政府提供的這些解決方案並沒有做任何跟他之前所提出來的說法有改變"},{"start":23342.02,"end":23363.523,"text":"換句話說在這個兩個保育類還沒有還沒有把它找到解決方案之前那個環評的二階的環評他大會是沒辦法召開的所以現在是目前的卡關是在整個保育類的部分那我們農業部會跟彰化縣政府我們也提過了我們會跟我們的生物多樣性研究所一起來努力把這個那個解決方案把它找出來"},{"start":23365.209,"end":23391.602,"text":"過去我們在發展其實這已經很久了在王惠美縣長之前甚至在那個衛明谷縣長的時候都已經提出這個惡靈精密機械遊戲那時候都沒有提出有這個保育鳥類的問題可是為什麼突然之間就產生這個問題甚至我們就是發現說沒有那環評大會在之前好像都沒有提出相關的問題"},{"start":23393.002,"end":23408.096,"text":"但是我想要請教的就是為什麼在嘉義是台積電可以使用台塘的農地而我們20的精密機械園區沒有辦法使用台塘的農地那是不是跨縣市有不同?"},{"start":23408.957,"end":23429.027,"text":"還是當然不是以農業部來講還是產業不同以農業部來講我們是針對土地本身的一個可利用性跟它土壤的質地我們不會去管說地上物是台湯的土地或是私人的土地或是國有地的部分這第一個要說明第二個要說明的就是我們在針對"},{"start":23430.909,"end":23452.291,"text":"我們一定會跟產業就是我們的經濟發展做一些相關的配合但是在配合的過程中我們會針對裡面如果說有有機的栽培區我們就會去提醒如果你要做一個園區就一定要想辦法把有機栽培園區做妥適的處理那如果裡面它有保育有棲地的必要性的時候那我們也會做提醒"},{"start":23452.791,"end":23475.96,"text":"那如果說提醒過了以後他有做適度的一個解決方案的時候那通常就不會有問題以惡靈精密園區來講我們在100年的時候就已經同意他做農地變更了對我就說他本來在之前他就已經同意要變成就是精密工業園區但是那個王美花部長已經在後面等了給他講一下好了"},{"start":23477.58,"end":23503.504,"text":"是不是就產業別有差別到底我們臺灣的精密機械產業有沒有前景還是以目前來看我們的電力上漲可能未來也有碳費的問題等等的再加上我們跟周邊國家的關稅貿易協定以及雙方的關稅貿易協定都沒有簽訂再加上地緣政治的問題讓臺灣的傳產"},{"start":23506.605,"end":23528.457,"text":"都發生了非常重大的結構性的問題是不是我們經濟部就乾脆讓這些隱形冠軍讓這些傳產讓他們自然淘汰就沒有辦法有生活的問題不會不會絕對不會我們其實非常重視委員提到這些產業那我們也希望他能夠升級轉型那委員提到這個惡靈精密園區因為他兩個步驟一個是都市"},{"start":23533.66,"end":23562.022,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":23562.122,"end":23586.247,"text":"那另外一個問題就是說常常在環評也被問到一個問題就是說目前的這個20科學園區的進駐率有沒有提升那這個也會就是說提升了以後就表示這個用地的需求一直在增加那這樣也會對我們開發20精密園區的需要性也會比較有幫助那所以這幾個問題的部分"},{"start":23588.147,"end":23596.975,"text":"那經濟部也會來跟相關的部會合作還是你們就是默默的就把他移到嘉義啊?嘉義有嘉義的嘉義的台湯的農地都比較不會產生保育類的那個動物啊委員你這樣說的話不是事實啊就是移到不會有抗爭啊"},{"start":23609.206,"end":23609.906,"text":"你如果再跟我講這個那我再跟你提到了"},{"start":23637.931,"end":23654.987,"text":"但是同樣的我發現了很多的光電業者他們要在我們的濕地就是方圓鄉啊大城鄉等等的濕地建立光電的就是要設置太陽光板那"},{"start":23655.447,"end":23680.23,"text":"我問你現在目前如果像這樣子的精密機械園區做的是比較有大規模的經濟我也想要請問那在那樣子的情況下為什麼有時候光電業者可以跟國產署對於相關的農地來申請變更成就是特殊事業用地嘛做光電的生產"},{"start":23680.871,"end":23702.273,"text":"那為什麼有時候在這樣子比較重大有工業就是有一些經濟前景的情況下這種大規模的有那個聚酪效應的產業沒有辦法使用這些農地而這些零碎性的可以使用農地那這對於環境的影響"},{"start":23704.315,"end":23718.662,"text":"我跟委員說明齁,現在目前以農地提供作為光電用使用的部分大概分為三大類。第一大類就是漁電工程區。那這個漁電工程區大概20905公頃。那第二個部分是不利耕作區是2162公頃。"},{"start":23721.704,"end":23747.05,"text":"那第三個部分是大概是用農地變更的方式這些地的圈出來之前他都一定經過生態檢核跟環社的一個檢核檢核完了確定了他不這裡面的區位是沒有跟所謂的棲地我們必須要保護的棲地有關我們才會把他框出來所以他有一定的隊長我跟你說好不好他們跟我講說"},{"start":23748.95,"end":23766.8,"text":"現在多少面積的光電需要申請環評?光電目前不是,是用環射檢測的部分,因為它對環境的影響相對跟設工廠本來就不太一樣。多少面積需要申請環射?"},{"start":23769.255,"end":23784.889,"text":"其實是區域的問題,那我們就跟農業部合作來做相關的...因為我聽到的現況,我們都在政府部門工作嘛,那我們必須要了解實地的狀況。"},{"start":23786.571,"end":23801.051,"text":"現況是他們就化整為零啊。他們就把那個就是同樣一個區塊,他們可以申請設立公司多一點,然後分塊來就是申請。那減少需要面臨這種環評或環設的條件啊。"},{"start":23803.274,"end":23819.627,"text":"反射檢測不會因為你的面積變小了就不做反射檢測就在我剛才說的就在我們所框定的漁電工程區兩萬多公頃我們已經初步做反射反射的一個檢核比較低敏感的但是你在申請的時候同樣會再確認一次"},{"start":23821.829,"end":23851.109,"text":"不管你是一公頃或是十公頃都還是要經過環社的檢核過這個是在整個的申請過程中一個必要的一個條件以農業部來講我們一定會去保護我們的農地所以到目前為止20905公頃裡面的餘電公升值用了大概2200多公頃不到十分之一不利工作區也用不到三分之一就是因為我們持續在跟經濟部一起努力有做一個非常嚴謹的審核不會對我們生態造成一些影響"},{"start":23852.35,"end":23868.907,"text":"但是在過去的時候在之前的時候其實就已經你們都把就是說國產署的土地或者是各部會的土地都已經希望設定成就是大家共同來推光電了是不是?"},{"start":23869.824,"end":23873.848,"text":"我知道說我具體沒有我們一定是先盤出說這個合不合適色光店然後才會去推如果那個區域是不合適我們第一關就會被農委會打槍了不太可能"},{"start":23885.439,"end":23909.984,"text":"我想部會是整合的啦委員你會有你的懷疑那是我是尊重但是我要跟委員報告在整個關店的發展上實際上我們部會之間都有很密切的協調我們是希望能夠在環境保育做得很好而且呢能夠發展關店的情況下一起來推動所以你會覺得哎呀怎麼會審查這麼多這麼多"},{"start":23912.624,"end":23940.222,"text":"問題就是說希望台灣能夠有產業的發展又有環境的保護通通能夠兼顧嘛所以你這樣講片面的實際上不是我們的情況我們部會是合作的我也是把就是說目前民眾他們的想法跟你分享嘛民眾的想法有些可能不正確啦我們必須要在這裡就是要對於國家未來的政策總是要在這裡達到溝通達到全民共識的方向啦對不對"},{"start":23941.002,"end":23941.382,"text":"這是台電的上一張"},{"start":23950.923,"end":23972.578,"text":"我們看到這是臺電它的發電成本那其實我們自發的電力在再生能源我們自發的電力是1.72塊在2022年的時候2023年的時候是2.53那其實我們都比購入的電力都非常的都是低很多那所以民眾就會希望說是不是"},{"start":23973.759,"end":23999.571,"text":"尤其是非常多中小企業廠商他們沒有辦法花那麼多錢那再加上有可能3月份的電價審議委員會未來對於電價的發電也會做適當的調整那這可能都會漲到民生電價以及所有的產業的用電那這個部分我們有沒有辦法調整再生能源的這個電價呢"},{"start":24002.052,"end":24027.519,"text":"在聖誕園部分事實上現在對新的這個離岸風電其實都已經是讓民間來買電了不用短購費率那所以臺電對離岸風電沒有再用這個短購費率來收購那太陽光電的部分事實上從今年開始那越來越多的企業會把甚至現在的短購費率會變成是他們自己去買電"},{"start":24028.519,"end":24043.749,"text":"所以這個太陽光電來賺購匯率給台電的部分的占比呢也會逐漸的來降低啦那因為發展再生能源對整個國家是很必須的所以我們還是要支持這個再生能源的發展"},{"start":24044.942,"end":24069.314,"text":"對可是我們即便是很必須我也我也認為啦因為未來整個就是說世界的趨勢但是在目前我們我們目前看到其實我有找了一張就是你們去年跟前年的電力供應供需的概況發現了其實我們今年度的就是工業用電就是減少非常大嗎"},{"start":24070.134,"end":24096.596,"text":"然後我們的工業用電工業部門的用電他的需求是暫比是56.1%嘛他就降低了2.8%所以在其實這是因為全球景氣的關係以及我們是仰賴出口的關係那導致於我們目前沒有缺點的問題有可能是因為景氣不好那工廠的生產沒有這麼大的需求的情況下所導致我們電力需求沒有這麼高的情況下"},{"start":24097.256,"end":24119.192,"text":"那是不是在這個時間點我們對於光電的這個發展要進行一些調整啊?我們再回來看喔就是看我們的電力結構裡面喔其實我們發現再生能源即便是我不要講你們是錯誤的能源錯誤能源等一下你陳院長就跳腳啦但是我們總要解讀"},{"start":24123.595,"end":24149.65,"text":"我們總要檢討一下嗎?我們總要檢討一下嗎?因為即便是目前我們希望我們的再生能源占比增加但是以目前你們的速度要達到你們2025年想要的20%的那個目標是遠遠不可能除非技術進步那現在目前我們有什麼樣子技術進步的能量嗎?"},{"start":24151.024,"end":24166.792,"text":"是不是能夠讓我們2025可以而且我再說一下尤其是太陽能光店我有看過臺電的就是太陽能光店的發展跟一般就是民間的太陽能光店的發展"},{"start":24167.432,"end":24196.286,"text":"其實為什麼民眾對於光電業的發展認為需要做部分的檢討那就是在法令限制的模糊的空間裡面第一個我們有沒有辦法提高太陽能光電的效率嗎即便我們要再生能源我們也希望說技術進步可以促進光電發電的效率嗎在既有的就是設施上面我們有沒有辦法提高光電的發電效率以及"},{"start":24196.966,"end":24215.116,"text":"怎麼樣子在臨近民宅臨近其他就是說設施裡面那怎麼樣子就是有退縮的這個機制嗎所以在法令上面有沒有可能在520之前你們做一個檢討然後在法規上面做改變"},{"start":24215.868,"end":24238.105,"text":"委員我聽不太懂這個退縮的機制是什麼?我是說不是他在一塊地裡面例如他比較接近民宅或者是接近因為有時候接近民宅他是可以設置光電的那這個部分你要不要做退縮的機制?有有這個然後這個這要修改法令對不對?"},{"start":24239.466,"end":24254.149,"text":"其實是我們的規範,不需要到法律的部分。這個部分是不是必須要做一個,然後發電的太陽能板也有非常多種。那未來比較高發電效率的太陽能板是什麼?"},{"start":24254.71,"end":24275.285,"text":"那未來是不是大家應該要採取高就是說高效率的發展的就是高效率發電量的太陽能板這都是需要做一個進一步的檢討不然以目前臺灣剩餘的土地有沒有辦法就是說全面性的發展然後你全面性的發展以外"},{"start":24276.245,"end":24293.922,"text":"對於民眾而言他們會不會覺得受到困擾因為太陽能板在旁邊很熱嘛很亮嘛這都是一種嫌惡的設施嘛那民眾會這也會影響到民眾居住的品質你不要笑啊太陽能板是邪惡的設施這樣的講法嫌惡"},{"start":24298.584,"end":24324.979,"text":"你被人家嫌、被人家討厭嘛。你的意思是這樣嗎?太陽能板被人家嫌惡的措施這樣的講法我想跟一般的理解是不太一樣可是我完全尊重委員講法確實太陽能發電的技術一直在進步我同意你的想法就是說如果有更好的技術我們當然要採用啊這個我完全同意然後呢不要讓民眾覺得嫌惡"},{"start":24329.441,"end":24342.226,"text":"所以兩個部分一個就是如果這個太陽能面板離居住的地方很近了目前我們有規範它四周一定要退縮然後用綠帶來隔離那不要造成這個附近"},{"start":24342.646,"end":24342.906,"text":"﹚一、二、三、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50"},{"start":24359.923,"end":24376.578,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":24376.678,"end":24377.859,"text":"那你們自己要不要修核子能反應設施管制法?"},{"start":24406.218,"end":24408.542,"text":"就是我們的核電廠研議的條例。"},{"start":24459.053,"end":24460.655,"text":"謝謝謝委員依奉的質詢。謝謝陳院長的答詢。接下來我們請林委員國陳請質詢。"},{"start":24499.637,"end":24505.522,"text":"其實本席第一次跟你在對質詢所以我特別一定要把我的個性"},{"start":24524.073,"end":24524.393,"text":"另外 院長"},{"start":24551.462,"end":24554.883,"text":"我沒有答會所問。我不會。我針對問題回答。好。好。院長。"},{"start":24581.343,"end":24605.225,"text":"我冒昧的請教你一個問題我今天要跟你談的是勞保年金破產的問題這個問題當然看起來對立的機會不會很大但是探討的價值絕對是一定要探討的所以院長我冒昧請教你"},{"start":24606.343,"end":24619.069,"text":"到底我們所有勞工他投保的人數現在在臺灣被保險人有多少?1050萬另外一點我再請教院長勞工有兩種"},{"start":24628.142,"end":24655.014,"text":"請問院長你知道哪兩種嗎?一個就是一般的勞工一個就是那個職業勞工這兩種那勞保局我要請教勞保的保險條例到底他是社會保險或者商業保險我必須要先釐清以後才有辦法再問下去社會保險"},{"start":24657.455,"end":24686.779,"text":"院長其實看起來你是寫者專家出身但是對於勞工的問題基本上你還是瞭解的非常多這一點我代表勞工我要特別謝謝你瞭解勞工委員那個勞保年金改革我在當副總統的時候也是其中的一個重點但是現在勞工的新生我必須要跟院長來做投訴"},{"start":24687.785,"end":24694.275,"text":"你知道一天到晚勞工繳錢你們說要破產請問我們將心比心"},{"start":24697.714,"end":24702.737,"text":"你身為勞工的心情你會感覺有什麼看法?"},{"start":24727.894,"end":24729.255,"text":"議長,你講這些,原則性我是同意。"},{"start":24756.405,"end":24772.231,"text":"但是任何解決問題一定要了解它真正的問題在哪裡。其實我要問院長一句話到底勞保要破產是政府的事或者勞工的事"},{"start":24773.499,"end":24790.795,"text":"政府要破產,我想這個制度當然是很重要的。當時我們在做老保年金改革規劃的時候,第一個當然就是採集的年數,第二個就是這個給付率是多少,第三個就是費率是多少。"},{"start":24791.215,"end":24818.41,"text":"那這些東西都要整體來考量的時候才能夠做一個可以永續的合理的勞保的健全的情況那當然這裡面有一個很重要的部分就是既然我們對於這個低收入的這些勞工要給他很好的奪地板的保護所以政府也一定要有政府這個補貼的經費進來所以現在大概有這四項政府的補助、撥補"},{"start":24819.93,"end":24845.208,"text":"然後呢這個採集的年數然後費率跟那個給付率嘛這四項一定要連動啦你講這些原則性都是對的啦但是真正的原因要把它找出來所以我要從頭把歷史啊也就是看來拋破雲來即使這個歷史一定要了解才有辦法去解決問題"},{"start":24846.454,"end":24874.613,"text":"我在乎的是身為一個勞工然後我規規矩矩繳了保惠動不動政府就說他要破產這對勞工的心理是非常沉重的那議長你聽我說完實際上政府動不動去做這些事基本上我真的要跟院長建議勞工破產的問題不是勞工的責任"},{"start":24875.089,"end":24883.876,"text":"是政府的責任所以我可以講一句話嗎?我可以講一下嗎?政府從來都沒有說過勞保會破產政府只說一定會負最後的幾戶責任那個破產是因為看到我們的收入和支出不平衡的時候就很多"},{"start":24900.749,"end":24907.333,"text":"很多媒體的heading寫出來的這個下標說會破產這個我們從來沒有說會破產"},{"start":24910.523,"end":24931.712,"text":"好啦一定 我跟你講實在話就是這樣來 我跟你講啦齁 這一些事情要讓你了解你才是真正的問題因為我為什麼會堅持政府經營不善不能把責任全部推給老公這一點我想院長你同意吧我同意 同意齁來 我們現在就是要先了解一下啦"},{"start":24933.353,"end":24933.873,"text":"好,我聆聽你的高見來第一個"},{"start":24959.964,"end":24985.867,"text":"四十九年成立至現在五十七年改建至五十九年把臺民地區最重要在這裡喔!最重要在這裡!八十五年1996年的時候我們臺灣省政府都承辦這些勞保但是這些勞保到最後是我們中央來承接在這裡喔一定有"},{"start":24986.598,"end":24998.289,"text":"我要向你請教一下,我們當初還有部長請問你們當初承接的時候到底虧損有多少?我沒想清楚,這1996年我沒想清楚"},{"start":25001.656,"end":25021.804,"text":"曾接的時候本來是臺灣省政府管轄的臺民地區的勞保局嘛那最後是我們中央勞委會曾接起來這個業務所以改屬我們中央政府嘛也是我們勞動部的前身勞委會嘛所以我請問85年開始的時候曾接起來請問那個時候虧損有多少"},{"start":25031.567,"end":25035.541,"text":"報告委員是不是有虧損或者虧損多少這部分我要進一步釐清"},{"start":25036.63,"end":25062.874,"text":"所以我坦白講嘛剛剛我問過院長到底我們是社會保險或者商業保險其實院長講得很清楚勞保本來就是社會保險其實那個時候動神之外把臺灣臺民地區勞保局所有的經費移到中央來的時候那個時候是沒有清算的"},{"start":25064.161,"end":25092.028,"text":"到底虧損有多少我告訴院長那個時候的勞保匯率只有6.5現在的匯率把所有84年把健保醫療的部分撥到中央政府健保局的時候那個時候其實從以後84年以後是沒有什麼虧錢的真正虧錢虧在哪邊是在"},{"start":25094.283,"end":25108.874,"text":"臺民地區那個6.5%結果他醫療給付各項保障通通有但是現在是12%加上健保的5.71%20%所以勞工繳錢是沒有減少的"},{"start":25114.537,"end":25137.065,"text":"也就是勞工繳得多領得少以前是繳得少領得多所以為什麼勞工現在都常常不講話常常不講話心裡面生悶氣政府動不動就說勞保要倒掉拜託議長我要報告你我說實在的今天這些事"},{"start":25138.687,"end":25158.167,"text":"勞保真的是勞工的養老本跟他的棺材本所以不要動不動就這樣我希望院長你在做事情你比過去的院長那當然跟你在對白在執行的時候確實你在整個問題的了解度是夠的"},{"start":25159.188,"end":25174.958,"text":"所以我今天跟行家要講話我特別真正的所有問題就是你們在承接的時候那個時候的洞大洞根本多少多少錢的虧損你們根本不知道嘛你們只承接出來"},{"start":25176.038,"end":25199.654,"text":"曾接出來但是你不曉得真正勞保的黑洞就在這個部分也就是49年到84年那個時候的大黑洞並非84年以後健保把它分出去的時候那個時候勞保接下來是沒有什麼虧損的"},{"start":25201.072,"end":25230.229,"text":"所以你不能最後85年以後用商業保險的計算清算方式去做計算那這個是對勞工是不公平的還有議長我現在在跟你報告之後你才表達一個意見我跟你講你看喔第二個當初拿了勞保基金去買股票那不用我跟你講不然你好好去查一下"},{"start":25231.581,"end":25242.436,"text":"好好去查一下政策副盤虧錢是勞工的事嗎?是你政府要負責欸結果現在不是把所有責任推給勞工"},{"start":25243.619,"end":25255.467,"text":"那這樣沒說白啦,但是我要說啦,一定要,你要聽我心聲,台鐵一千控五十萬人的勞工啊,這個聲音要出來嘛,你這樣去做決定,不是說你一定這個給你上課,不是。"},{"start":25263.853,"end":25290.033,"text":"這是勞工多年來他的心聲透過今天有這個機會我要替一千多萬的勞工把心聲把他講出來所以第二還有一點勞保基金過去確實在整個繳的多領的少的情況之下這個基金是隨便亂用的"},{"start":25291.812,"end":25320.238,"text":"甚至於我要跟院長投訴甚至於拿勞保基金去做建設基金為什麼像台電當初沒有錢做建設的時候南電北送所有那個電塔是拿勞保基金去做這個那做建設無所謂最不能原諒的就是什麼現在我舉兩個例子一"},{"start":25321.616,"end":25329.334,"text":"抬開這個案子,保證你回去查看看,向勞保基金借了上百億,請問"},{"start":25331.94,"end":25351.607,"text":"到去年才還掉欸拜託欸你看看勞保基金可以這樣用嗎?所以為什麼?一定 我要跟你報告為什麼會說這是政府的責任也就是財政紀律啊不夠監督周前產生今天勞保的虧損連連"},{"start":25353.968,"end":25372.016,"text":"說實在的政府要負起責任政府要負起責任所以我要向你報告就是剛才我給你投訴這裡一次一個你們沒有精算第二個你們講快一點那個勞保基金的財政紀律也不見錢說護盤就護盤結果輸了都是勞工的事"},{"start":25377.578,"end":25398.543,"text":"我特別跟院長報告因為這些都是我是有參與的那參與的時候我覺得這樣是不好所以今天勞保的虧損絕對不是84年健保撥出去醫療撥出去了以後勞保是沒有什麼虧損的"},{"start":25400.438,"end":25421.478,"text":"但是我不管怎麼樣我覺得這是不管是現在的政府或前政府當然你們要概括承受我們知道可是我很不服氣的就是為什麼明明是政府經營不善管理不得當那為什麼把所有責任"},{"start":25423.133,"end":25446.802,"text":"這個要勞工來扛勒,所以這一點是對勞工不公平。所以議長,我講這些都有憑有據喔。我希望院長,我當然希望你繼續連任。你好好督促勞動部,好好把這個事情查清楚。這水落石出嘛。到底是勞工的問題還是政府的問題。我的認知"},{"start":25448.271,"end":25452.533,"text":"謝謝委員你給我上了一課讓我知道勞工保險成立的嚴格還有勞保黑洞你認為的看法我在這裡做三點的說明第一點"},{"start":25477.466,"end":25504.368,"text":"政府從來沒有認為這個勞保的問題是要勞工來負責而是政府都沒有責任這個我完全不同意因為呢實際上我剛才講過政府會負最後幾戶的責任第二個你剛才說到1996年的時候呢那個時候沒有黑洞但是你也提到沒有精算那如果沒有精算的時候呢實際上那一些人都還在年輕的時候加入保險"},{"start":25505.069,"end":25532.057,"text":"那到了96年他領的錢少當然他還夠嘛因為還大部分的人還在工作可是如果你精算下來的時候也許到96年的時候推算到這一些還在工作的人以後退休要領勞保的時候搞不好那個時候就已經是黑洞了啦那這是第二個我的想法第三個我也完全同意你的意見就是說勞保基金呢應該要有很好的這個投資"},{"start":25532.677,"end":25532.998,"text":"我不是說你現在"},{"start":25549.939,"end":25555.664,"text":"我現在指責的並非是我們現在在執政這個從84年以後那當然國民兩黨都有在執政現在不是你的責任問題"},{"start":25578.641,"end":25605.558,"text":"而是要把問題查清楚。第一,如果今天勞工是繳費不足,那當然大家來想辦法嘛。那事實上不是這樣。因為齁,現在勞工啊,這傢伙放兩年賠了啦。因為健保他也要繳,勞保他也要繳。事實上真正虧損的部分是84年以前是"},{"start":25607.783,"end":25635.488,"text":"醫療跟勞保通通都是一張單子那當然這個部分確實是虧損那那個時候我問你有沒有精算你們也沒有啊那我不曉得說你們這樣接起來那那個是大動嘛那那個時候的政府當然要負責任我現在沒有講現在的政府現在的政府我坦白跟你講你要我讚賞我可以讚賞第一做得最好的"},{"start":25636.624,"end":25660.509,"text":"是陳菊院長那個時候對勞工假勞工的東西就是佔勞工便宜的錢最後他任內全部都退還第一舉例15年以下不能成熟退休給付結果他就老了他就走了最後陳菊花完一年第二許民春部長"},{"start":25661.715,"end":25676.448,"text":"他是公道的為什麼在前兩年疫情最嚴重的時候他去爭取不一定雇主的職業勞工可以紓困這些所以我沒有怪你但是我們要把問題理清楚"},{"start":25676.988,"end":25697.386,"text":"今天不是勞工的問題是政府的問題是當初你們沒有精算而現在產生這些虧損把所有責任推給勞工一定要多繳保費要掃零要什麼樣要改革這些東西對勞工是不公平一定 我跟你投訴的是這個問題所以你剛才有講過當然我還是肯定"},{"start":25703.391,"end":25704.733,"text":"委員我再補充一下好不好"},{"start":25721.432,"end":25722.253,"text":"正常的增加復減"},{"start":25747.347,"end":25772.201,"text":"都可以大家來看這勞工不是異窮不變的是他們的責任他們該繳的就繳但是一味的全部責任歸在勞工上面這個我不贊同我也不贊同所以一定我跟你說你剛才有講過撥補要繼續另外一個我還是比較在乎的就是跟院長報告你講的就是要入華啦"},{"start":25773.375,"end":25795.911,"text":"確定幾乎乎勞工放心,這點一定,你贊成嗎?我贊成啊。好,入閥這個部分本席也會為了這個事把它修改,把它入閥。這樣的話勞工的問題他不會人心惶惶。我現在驕急,連天你跟我說要倒,誰願意去繳錢?所以這個部分我還是希望,我還是希望,院長"},{"start":25797.179,"end":25814.768,"text":"你是一個我真正的學者出身我不希望這樣公開的我希望你連任連任以後才有辦法去解決這個問題因為我今天把所有歷史都已經跟院長報告了嘛所以我希望一定"},{"start":25816.209,"end":25836.626,"text":"這個部份我要拜託你責成部長特別去把他查清楚該是誰的責任把他理清楚不要一去到晚上就要怪他一千、一百萬的勞工你都叫不夠這是對勞工不公平好不好一定好現在要再來跟你談最簡單就是談最簡單的一個問題消防員組工會"},{"start":25843.908,"end":25861.909,"text":"來來來那個主席拜託內政部長上來一下阿時間要暫停吧委員好一六"},{"start":25863.483,"end":25881.58,"text":"這個當然是探訪生意但是我們什麼東西都不要檢討為什麼為什麼消防員他要組工會其實組工會很簡單嘛他真的是很簡單不要這10年來一定有這10年來是43個"},{"start":25885.516,"end":25898.848,"text":"問題在哪邊是你們設計你們沒有在訓練或者問題出在哪邊其實坦白跟你講主公會或者主公會最大的目的就是結社前你們也協會也有給他結社前"},{"start":25900.729,"end":25929.892,"text":"另外一個就是那個還有協商錢。你們也給了,但是給的是給一半。協商真正公會法裡面規定是有罰則。你們協會裡面那些協商是沒有罰則。一點那個約束力都沒有。所以,一定,我告訴你,這就是做一半沒效了。那最主要是罷工錢。那罷工錢,我說實在本席也反對消防人員他要罷工。"},{"start":25930.779,"end":25950.214,"text":"因為養兵千日用在一時,所以這些罷工錢當然也不能適用,但是一定我是建議重新在盤點各單位好好去研究一下,即使讓他主工會不要動作洪水猛獸,不用那麼緊張"},{"start":25951.98,"end":25956.701,"text":"我認為因為這裏面有個很重要的就是消防員本身是公務員"},{"start":25980.111,"end":25994.136,"text":"那教師的時候,不是每一個都是公務員。那第二,就是說公務員現在也有這個,你剛才有說過,我們可以做這個協會嘛。那協會裡面的時候,他可以有多少的諮商權等等,這可以再來修法啦。我們已經提出一份,在訂一個會期啦。"},{"start":26004.335,"end":26018.929,"text":"但是這個發展這個會議因為預期不續什麼,我又會再寫出來,來在大院講,聽這個委員的意見,看我們朝野的做法跟想,想要好讓他比較好,工會比較好還是協會比較好,其實這也要來聽我們這個消防"},{"start":26023.613,"end":26027.874,"text":"因為他們需要的是職業安全法只要主公會他就有職業安全法但是"},{"start":26048.519,"end":26067.532,"text":"我聽說你們內政部都沒同意我跟委員報告一下,你基本談的這是兩件事情這是兩件事情,完全兩件第一個是我們的消防人員依照憲法的規定國家的公務員是必須經過國家考試消防員的身份是公務人員,但老師並不是"},{"start":26072.995,"end":26090.08,"text":"公務人員兼具勞工身份的一大堆啦你不要跟我講這個啦沒有沒有這兩件事情怎麼會兩件事情勞工我時間有限我跟你講公務人員兼具勞工身份一大堆只是法令要不要解套而已"},{"start":26090.74,"end":26113.615,"text":"所以齁,我坦白跟你講也沒錯,沒錯,你從基層上來,那你來這站我就感覺說,你都在基層都白呆了。我說實在的,主公會沒有那麼可怕,但是我同意警消限制罷工錢,那他有其他的,他只要是要入,"},{"start":26115.379,"end":26132.02,"text":"職業安全法嘛因為您現在那是專業信念但是職業安全法它是有法則的喔它是有法令的喔所以他們現在缺法的是職業安全法對他們的保障嘛你放在協會裡面根本就不能放嘛所以"},{"start":26133.721,"end":26148.146,"text":"這職業安全法的部分,就是我們的政府可以在消防法裡面把這個職業的消防人員的職業安全的部分給訂單裡面。這也是另外一個做法。我們本來就有在想說在消防法裡面要來修這個人的職業安全的部分。當然委員我們的不公的見解,你說你就要"},{"start":26155.828,"end":26162.433,"text":"好啦我原則性我同意啦但是我坦白跟你講我坦白跟你講職業安全法限定公務人員兼具勞工身份是可以適用只要你用那個協會那個協會就是社會團體我跟你講那個不是專法啦"},{"start":26184.932,"end":26211.817,"text":"所以我跟你說,你若要說這些,沒關係,你們既然有這樣做,我希望部長,你們好好跟那個勞動部,這裡好好商量一下,我會繼續追,我會繼續追,好不好?來,那其他那個一定,我很少的時間來,時間暫停一下,請那個,請那個我們法務部,還有我們那個,"},{"start":26213.251,"end":26214.351,"text":"今天我們院裡面有一個打詐的公聽會現在打詐"},{"start":26241.042,"end":26244.75,"text":"我們說實在的這件事因為很多同意也很多了現在三萬多件"},{"start":26247.793,"end":26257.938,"text":"詐騙八十幾億,我們說實在的這依效國際啦,依效國際。我告訴你沒問題就是說,全世界都有現在有一個組織,國際組織,他在統計全世界的那個詐騙。我們說詐騙通行證的國家,其實就是紐西蘭、新加坡、美國這些國家啦。"},{"start":26271.104,"end":26271.644,"text":"來,議長,我跟您說"},{"start":26285.647,"end":26312.342,"text":"來,唐部長,你對這個有什麼看法?簡單就好了。我們覺得源頭防治是特別重要,那包含說我們想透過那個電子簽章法案很快會送到這個櫃院,盡可能的讓這種假冒帳號或者假冒名人的狀況可以有所緩解。好,那個蔡部長?我們省十幾萬跟警察跟調查局的人,大家都很認真在打架。"},{"start":26314.807,"end":26333.055,"text":"謝謝林委員過程的質詢。謝謝陳院長的答詢。謝謝。接下來我們請登記第17號蔡委員其他質詢。"},{"start":26370.346,"end":26394.235,"text":"主席好大家好請陳院長內政部林部長麻煩請陳院長備詢麻煩請林部長謝謝蔡委員午安我坐在上面八年都已經快忘了站在這裡的感情今天讓我有機會再回味一下"},{"start":26398.871,"end":26426.414,"text":"院長我想今天我有注意到台中市政府又打算開始賣台中市的土地。我也看到了今天內政部林部長針對台中市賣土地特別發了一個公文提醒一下台中市。那我想剛剛我又看到台中市政府發的新聞稿說他不想鳥你。"},{"start":26427.478,"end":26456.314,"text":"簡單講我用白話文講就是他照常準備開始飆售臺中市政府的這些底廢地在我的看法上齁其實市政府賣土地不是什麼新鮮的事情每一個市政府我想林部長你也當過市長你也賣過土地但是我想市政府賣土地在這個階段裡面我們所面臨的挑戰有兩個第一個挑戰就是"},{"start":26457.546,"end":26476.358,"text":"到底市政府的市長也就是一個地方政府的首長他願不願意把年輕人的問題當作他施政的首要目的。換言之大家在談社會住宅如果市政府的所有的這些住宅用地都給他賣掉"},{"start":26478.151,"end":26479.772,"text":"今天台中市政府我把它做了一個統計"},{"start":26506.906,"end":26531.004,"text":"臺中市縣市合併之後歷任的市長胡市長大概賣了234億的土地林佳龍市長大概賣了75.5億的土地盧秀燕市長大概賣了504億的土地所以這個叫做賣土地的巨人但是如果我們來看一下臺中市社宅的狀況我們就可以很清楚的發現"},{"start":26532.365,"end":26560.59,"text":"從林佳龍市長開始規劃興建有18個地方5200多戶的社會住宅林市長跟盧市長交接的時候大概就是兩個市長在交接這個階段規劃興建的大概有兩個地方是1200多戶到盧市長自己任內五年的時間他只規劃了四個地方1600多戶那中央有十個地方大概6400多戶"},{"start":26562.796,"end":26582.606,"text":"所以我稱之盧市長跟台中市政府這個叫做蓋社宅的侏儒所以台中市除了一個賣土地的巨人而是蓋社宅的侏儒所以台中市的社宅在我的看法上這個目標是遙遙無期"},{"start":26584.352,"end":26611.562,"text":"我也看到臺中市政府發了一個新聞稿說臺中市中央給的目標是一萬四千戶的社會住宅我想請問您部長有沒有這個目標那這個目標的訂定是怎麼來的各位委員報告一下我們過去訂的的確是一萬四那不過剛剛特別提到這個賣土地的問題其實最近這大概三四年左右這個房價上漲"},{"start":26612.763,"end":26639.466,"text":"民眾其實是對這個很敏感那所以我們是非常希望說地方政府因為中央政府已經沒有在賣地那所以我們非常希望這個地方政府在飆售土地的時候要特別注意因為這個是會產生所謂的定毛的效果那這一次我為什麼特別提是因為這一次他定了200億的這個底價其實已經比市場的行情高了許多所以我們必須要提醒這個是"},{"start":26641.023,"end":26653.731,"text":"所以林副長我定卯作用我待會再跟你討論我們先把第一個問題解決所以臺中市政府這樣的賣土地而不願意把市政府的土地拿來蓋社宅5年時間只規劃了1600戶的這個情形"},{"start":26658.068,"end":26670.515,"text":"他還誇口說他達成了這個目標他達成了目標所以我想請中央是不是可以規劃一下在我的看法上台中市最少五萬戶的社會住宅是絕對跑不掉"},{"start":26671.618,"end":26685.837,"text":"那我們可不可以立刻,院長可不可以立刻進行檢討,將各縣市到底設宅需要幾戶,臺中市14000戶那個目標那個是水準太低啦,標準太低的目標。我剛才就在跟林部長在請教"},{"start":26687.119,"end":26707.464,"text":"就是說我們當時是因為蔡總統8年嘛社會住宅20萬戶嘛那直接興建的部分是這樣子可是未來那18年欸那是未來我們要為年輕人著想為中低收入著想我們的社會住宅我想最起碼要4、5倍以上才夠啦"},{"start":26707.967,"end":26713.432,"text":"所以那個是在蔡總統任期的這個目標。所以接下來我們應該在蔡總統這個目標之外,應該要有新的目標。所以台中市政府並沒有去把這樣的目標放進去,而只是"},{"start":26731.217,"end":26757.754,"text":"現在還在談過去那個8年的目標所以我希望內政部要緊述將這個未來到底要目標戶多少像台中市我認為最少要五萬戶啦我認為這個目標是一定要去追一定要去達成的那第二個目標就是剛剛你部長所講的這個台中市政府尤其是政府他的這個土地的飆售對台中市的地價有定毛的作用"},{"start":26758.615,"end":26779.978,"text":"那這一次它的底價比普周邊所有的土地交易價格大概貴了兩成。所以換言之我們可預期台中市政府如果土地出費流標,否則的話如果飆出去,那換言之周邊的地主未來賣土地只要跟著政府賣就好了,就漲兩成。"},{"start":26781.931,"end":26789.525,"text":"至少。至少嘛。最少就起兩下。標的時候可能還會有溢價。對對對我假設算最低標準用他的底價得標好了。"},{"start":26790.131,"end":26819.277,"text":"他最少就是告訴大家說台中市的土地硬要自己去,要繼續上漲,要讓年輕人在台中市更買不起房子。因為所有的建商很簡單嘛,建商是加工業嘛,他買了土地,做了設計,做了興建,然後最後把它賣掉嘛。所以當土地成本大幅上揚的時候,勢必未來的房價在台中市又要繼續飆漲,又讓更多的年輕人在台中市買不起房子嘛。"},{"start":26820.067,"end":26848.401,"text":"這個其實是很清楚的而定保作用如果是一般的這些私有土地的業者那政府當然我們只能透過相關的政策跟法規來規範但最可惡的是政府帶頭做這個事情這個才是讓人寒心才會讓人覺得難道我們的台中市政府難道盧市長完全沒有把年輕人的想法年輕人的痛苦年輕人的期待放在心上嗎"},{"start":26849.548,"end":26867.119,"text":"林部長我今天你發了這個提醒文給盧市長我希望是肯定的但是我也知道你發這個文其實我也覺得沒什麼用我想他民調很高他這個政治聲望很高接下來可能是總統的候選人"},{"start":26868.12,"end":26893.115,"text":"所以他不會區區一個內政部的部長對他來講是小兒科啦雖然我知道你是很善意提醒我們都希望政府非常用心中央政府已經非常用心在蓋社宅非常用心在希望土地不要再飆漲了所以你做內政部長你做這個工作是必要的但是我也知道沒有什麼用但是我在這裡要提醒內政部對於居住正義的問題"},{"start":26894.909,"end":26913.24,"text":"一方面要跟所有的社會大眾特別年輕人說清楚到底誰在蓋社宅誰在主老蓋社宅或者誰在睡覺不蓋社宅或者誰裝睡不蓋社宅我覺得內政部有義務要讓國人同胞特別讓年輕人知道的很清楚"},{"start":26914.042,"end":26941.136,"text":"所以內政部應該要定期公布我們對於涉宅推動這個政策到底多久我們會供給多少量供給的位置到底在哪裡這是中央蓋的還是地方政府蓋的我認為我們在涉宅政策上面內政部一定要有標準這個標準甚至是你手上有的資源跟地方政府未來的配合都要把這個考核放到裡面去"},{"start":26942.335,"end":26957.778,"text":"我覺得這個才是讓涉宰這個政策可以推動不要忘記這一次的很多的年輕朋友他的選票並不支持民進黨因為他認為民進黨對年輕朋友的這些呼聲他們的期待並沒有做到回應的狀況"},{"start":26959.008,"end":26986.528,"text":"所以這一次的這個事件正是讓大家把那個照妖鏡拿出來到底中央政府對社宅的態度是什麼到底每一個地方政府無論它是什麼政黨它對於社會住宅的態度是什麼誰真正的在呼應年輕人的期待我覺得這件事情內政部一定要去做到否則的話稀哩呼嚕的大家呼嚨一通我們的市長還說中央都沒蓋半棟最後發現自己資料錯誤還出來道歉"},{"start":26987.759,"end":27012.439,"text":"所以這個就是長期內政部或者中央被抹黑就是從這個地方來所以我希望內政部要加油我們的社宅政策我們還要再加把勁要比蔡總統過去8年的時間要蓋得更多要更加積極回應年輕人的需要這個是我對你的期待是謝謝委員我想那個賴總統他也有定了新的一個目標我們會全力來達成"},{"start":27013.6,"end":27036.106,"text":"第二個委員剛剛也特別提到即便是地方政府蓋的社宅其實中央政府不管是對土地對興建的這個成本我們都有補助補助沒有錯接下來院長我想那個辣椒粉毒辣椒粉的事件我今天早上也看到你發言我覺得很清楚是我們積極在邊境檢查所以所檢測出來的"},{"start":27037.489,"end":27056,"text":"我還是覺得說我們在手段上面可能要更積極一些也就是說我們在管理上應該要採取差別化管理我們現在譬如說光去年來自中國的辣椒粉不合格件數越來越多去年16件今年不到兩個月就有7件"},{"start":27056.68,"end":27081.572,"text":"所以換言之我們不是講中國是剛好這個事情是中國那特別在食安上面就是對食品的管理上面我們一定要差別就是雞優生啊不要耗費太多的公務人力在處理但是對於那些成績不好那些劣等生常常這個作怪常常讓我們台灣陷入食安的這個困難困擾的這個這些國家或者"},{"start":27082.427,"end":27110.948,"text":"這一種產品我們應該要差別的加強檢驗甚至最嚴重就像我們在檢查現在你的措施逐批檢驗這個就是最嚴格的標準而且我們最近還讓21家有不合格的產品的大陸的廠商我們暫停他的入口所以這個就是差別管理的手段一定要出來因為我們不可能什麼東西都逐批檢驗"},{"start":27112.146,"end":27138.586,"text":"這個是科學這個也是實務的問題所以我們一定要有辦法把那個差別的管理把它做出來同時不好的我們就要最嚴厲的手段那好的相對就可以鼓勵在相關的這個行政措施上面可以鼓勵這個是我大概一點小小的建議謝謝那最後我想這個謝謝院長謝謝我們的行政團隊對於台中市的重大幾個重大的交通建設在這個"},{"start":27142.506,"end":27162.352,"text":"謝謝委員這委員實在是給我們很多的指導我今天特別感謝是因為以前在上面都沒辦法感謝你因為你知道我這幾年來盯得非常緊王部長不知道去我那裡多少次了歷任部長都到我那個地方常常幾乎我們都在追這些案子"},{"start":27163.032,"end":27186.553,"text":"我在上面沒有機會公開的謝謝,所以今天有機會站在這裡,我就要特別表示感謝。但是我們感謝歸感謝,後面他還不是完工。例如說我們台中市捷運南線,在我的建議底下,我們中央先給他核定,不要讓台中市政府再繼續抹黑中央。所以中央先核定,地方再對計畫進行修正。我想請問部長,"},{"start":27187.947,"end":27212.361,"text":"地方政府的修正有沒有時程?什麼時候可以完成捷運南線的修正?因為不完成修正還是動工不了嗎?主要在過去有很多的問題最後的問題是在沙路站就是三個包括鐵路、南線還有平面沙路大橋的問題這個部分初步的方向委員有特別說這部分要趕快來進行"},{"start":27213.802,"end":27214.843,"text":"每三個月跟本席報告一次可不可以?"},{"start":27241.857,"end":27265.413,"text":"報告臺中市政府到底什麼時候完成修正因為捷運南線大家等著要動啊等著要趕快完工啊那他一定要報交通部對不對對所以你每三個月告訴我臺中市的進度我就定期公布看臺中市要拖到什麼時候才可以把捷運南線這個修正計畫把它做好那其實不只只有殺戮嘛其實還有"},{"start":27267.068,"end":27288.068,"text":"一直在主張的我們的第一站就是港務公司大樓跟捷運站的共同開發共同規劃甚至共購這個也是修正計畫還有地方政府自己核定到底要在平頂站或正陰站這個是地方政府核定這不是你交通部同意的因為場站的選址是地方的事情"},{"start":27317.531,"end":27327.87,"text":"謝謝蔡委員提倡質詢。謝謝陳院長。現在報告宴會。我們休息10分鐘。現在休息。辛苦了。"},{"start":27927.348,"end":27928.469,"text":"報告院會現在我們繼續開會接下來請萬委員美玲質詢"},{"start":27945.916,"end":27949.697,"text":"好,謝謝主席。我們有請陳建仁院長。再請陳院長備詢。好,院長好。院長,我想這個是您在520之前那應該是最後一次可以來質詢您了。那我想今天的議題其實非常的多。"},{"start":27971.003,"end":27995.156,"text":"首先我想請教一下您應該知道其實在聯合報每年的年底其實它有一個活動那這個活動您過去也有參與過就是它會請針對台灣的民眾然後請一些人寫出一個字代表整個台灣在這個段期間之內或者那一年內的一個社會的一個樣貌那在您的這個任內2023的時候我們看到那個字是缺這您有意向嗎?"},{"start":27998.529,"end":28007.753,"text":"因為我很早以前我曾經有寫過一個字被選為當年的字但是去年是缺這個我不知道因為好久沒看聯合報"},{"start":28008.749,"end":28009.929,"text":"以往也都很負面"},{"start":28032.436,"end":28055.737,"text":"他會很負面他可能反映的都是一些老百姓現在的一個新生民間的疾苦啦但是足以讓我們這執政的人來看一看什麼地方是應該我們要加強改善的反而我們是應該用正面去看待說反映出了這個問題所以我們我想本席就前年2022年的時候一個是漲那去年就是缺而缺這個事實在您執政的當行政院長這一年當中"},{"start":28056.998,"end":28071.143,"text":"我想今天早上我有聽到您在備詢的時候特別有講到我們看到漲這個字在早上好像您有回應說我們在今年電價確定要漲這是真的嗎?電價現在在請電價審議委員會來盤點因為每一年我們電價的審議委員會都會來就電價是否要調整來做一個討論所以我們現在確實有這樣的一個啟動討論的機制"},{"start":28086.816,"end":28089.506,"text":"所以聽起來是今年確定要漲有沒有說什麼時候會漲還是還在討論階段"},{"start":28091.363,"end":28116.418,"text":"一般是在4月1號公布了。都會在3月份討論有可能會要漲所以我在想當我們看到漲這個字的時候我們很希望看到它是漲薪資它是生育率漲正向的但是我們今天聽到漲電價我想大家其實是陷入很大的憂心因為那個沒有關係因為染料也在漲啦我們只能被迫接受嘛有很多原因但是我們來討論這個缺這個事情"},{"start":28118.979,"end":28134.909,"text":"我想在上一屆的這個會期當中我有跟您討論過缺兩樣事情本期非常在意我相信院長也有放在心裡一個缺護理師非常缺第二個就是我們的客運司機非常缺這兩件事今天"},{"start":28135.709,"end":28152.762,"text":"老問題但是越來越嚴重我必須還要再跟您繼續做討論那麼我們來看到缺護理人員這個部分根據全球資料庫網站最新的公佈臺灣在醫療照護指數上面再一次奪得了世界第一那這是我們共同的驕傲"},{"start":28153.783,"end":28175.493,"text":"那同時啊我們在這個調查報告中顯示在醫療可敬性醫療費用的性價比還有合理性我們也都是全球第一這也是我們大家共同努力來的我想這都是要這個讚許的啊那不過呢我們看到在平均餘命新生兒死亡率可避免死亡率疾病別死亡率以及癌症5年的存活率"},{"start":28175.953,"end":28199.37,"text":"等等非常重要的健康指標那也在國際期刊上面我們看到我們的排名竟然掉到了35到37的世界排名同時在亞洲各國我們還輸給了日本、南韓跟新加坡那當然這是有好的也有不好的那這都一定可以讓我們來參考但是院長你知道為什麼會出現這樣落差我想我們來討論看看"},{"start":28200.771,"end":28219.836,"text":"那在這個社區醫院協會的理事長我們朱毅宏他有說出一個說法他說台灣新生兒的死亡率、平均餘命等等這些指標落後其他的國家他認為凸顯出來在醫療人力和運算資源投入不足才有這樣的一個結果那當然我也看到我們區議員部長有回應說"},{"start":28221.016,"end":28221.776,"text":"我可以講一講護理師的不足"},{"start":28250.652,"end":28274.979,"text":"我覺得您聽這件事情非常的重要我有聽但是我覺得再來我會給您時間回答好不好那再來世界第一的這個醫療照護這麼棒的一個成績我們也不希望我們台灣的護理師的工作壓力也成為世界第一這都是我們不希望看到的那我想我對薛議員部長其實寄予厚望我想有一件事情我是非常肯定您的"},{"start":28275.439,"end":28298.044,"text":"在我們桃園疫情期間那個時候所有的診所上千家的診所沒有防疫的物資那我記得我在一個禮拜五的深夜打電話給您二話不說您去盤點你也沒有因為我不是執政黨的委員跟您反映這個問題你置之不理禮拜天我們9萬份所有的防疫物資來到了我們桃園那下放給所有的診所我想這件事情"},{"start":28298.624,"end":28322.48,"text":"那在當時的鄭文燦市長也知道我們都非常感謝中央不分黨派只有做防疫但是呢我們看到啊其實部長上來以後其實那一份肯定我想有稍稍失望這個我非常持平在講這件事情尤其我們看到這一次在衛福部所公告的夜班獎勵金的這件事情引發很多的爭議我想再來跟您這個回憶一次"},{"start":28323.14,"end":28340.516,"text":"我們看到不管是醫學中心區域醫院或者是地區醫院小夜班、大夜班這個獎金是不一致的這件事情在基層已經真的快要爆炸了那各界人士也給你很多的建言我們也有算出來地區醫院的護理師如果他一整個月他都是輪值大夜班這22天下來"},{"start":28341.877,"end":28370.816,"text":"每一個月他會比醫學中心薪資要少了8800塊一年下來超過10萬塊你知道這個對基層的護理人員來說非常不公平心理不舒服那也有很多的這個護理師大家呢就在想那是不是大家通通要往醫學中心去你是不是逼著地區醫院醫護人員護理人員去出走這是第一個那第二個呢這是上一次我有跟這個陳院長這個討論過的也就是我們老是只重視大夜班"},{"start":28371.676,"end":28397.134,"text":"但我們沒有說大夜班不重要而是我們覺得白班也非常的重要當然我也很肯定院長在上次我質詢完畢的時候您也接受了這樣子一個建議所以你也說到去年11月你有說你會研究我們白天班的工作繁重加級所以呢很棒這代表你也知道他們工作繁重那本期想請教一下院長現在這個工作繁重加級進度到哪裡了什麼時候會給予"},{"start":28398.135,"end":28415.564,"text":"現在在演繹中,我是不是請我部長來說明?好,那跟委員報告齁,那工作繁重加擠的這一個部分我們正在規劃設計,我預計大概在下半年就可以開始實施。下半年?對。有說幾月份嗎?"},{"start":28418.021,"end":28429.509,"text":"那幾月份我沒有辦法說得很確定。那院長,這樣子我覺得有點可惜。2020之前你有沒有辦法做到?我當然也是想越快越好,但是呢"},{"start":28430.407,"end":28452.998,"text":"就好像這個大小月班齁你看看不同等級的醫院就有很多不同不同的意見齁對院長520之前沒有辦法做到所以我們現在要加強來溝通來了解這是您提出來的如果可以在520之前做到那不是很完美嗎我當然很希望但是但是我們要實際一點所以要到下半年那下半年一定會做嗎"},{"start":28454.785,"end":28472.815,"text":"一定會因為這一個第一個要有預算預算的部分我們大概已經有了那我想如果今天還可以得到一個承諾下半年一定會做那麼我們也希望520之前如果我們沒有辦法去實施至少告訴我們大概在幾月份我們可以下去做"},{"start":28474.276,"end":28475.377,"text":"有12個措施,不是兩件事,12件事"},{"start":28494.318,"end":28515.9,"text":"好這是相關的措施那去年度考選部在11月9號突然公告說降低護理國考的門檻那要把難度比較高的也是比較重要的一門科目叫做基礎醫學2024開始起我們的比重要從原來的20%調降成10%而且這過程當中有一些粗糙所以不管是台大醫院"},{"start":28516.34,"end":28516.36,"text":"委員長"},{"start":28535.345,"end":28549.696,"text":"我們缺的從來不是叫做執照的人數而是能不能留得住這些護理師好的環境那接下來我要跟你討論的是就很重要的我也希望你能夠聽一下也就是說"},{"start":28550.276,"end":28566.136,"text":"根據衛福部自己給我最新的統計目前護理人員總職業率是63%領證的人數30%但職業的人數卻只有領證的人數是30萬人而職業人數卻只有18萬人就很多人不願意投入到這職場不是沒有人"},{"start":28566.536,"end":28566.856,"text":"三班互併筆入法"},{"start":28582.904,"end":28605.955,"text":"所以這個會變成一個惡性循環。所以當然本席更不以為然的還有一件事情就是其實我們在這個賴清德這個副總統他的在競選的時候政績有說到說要解決護理師荒他是要增加他去增加這個所謂的護理師的這個相關科系的招生名額上個會期我也講過這個方向真的是錯的"},{"start":28607.136,"end":28622.578,"text":"您聽聽看,我想我們教育部長也上來,我們一直以來統測護衛類的報考人數大概就是在3%多,這是第一個。第二個呢,我們看到這個表格,大家可以看一下,下一頁。"},{"start":28623.559,"end":28649.589,"text":"我們在這個相關的護理相關科系別五專二年制四年制學士後等等我們都可以看到注冊率都是在75%最多的在92%這代表什麼意思白話來說是我們都已經招不滿了你提高沒有意義你提高只是讓這個注冊率更低而已再來上面還發生一個問題院長不知道能不能看得出來也就是說很奇怪我們現在"},{"start":28650.489,"end":28650.97,"text":"我想我可以回答"},{"start":28670.132,"end":28697.737,"text":"院長我把他講完喔那我想因為數據在這個地方喔是不是啊要回去檢討一下第一個如果我們要提高這個掃聲明這個方向也錯了第二個這個方式也不對因為以前註冊率就是就是這個要問護理師學會跟護理師工會啦他們對於護理師在訓練的過程當中希望達到什麼樣的level那你可能也很清楚你可能專家比我清楚現在我們護理師希望每一個護理師都得到"},{"start":28698.197,"end":28714.444,"text":"比較完整的教育的體制。我想護理學會一向是如此。你也很清楚。所以你講的我認同,但我講的你沒有注意聽。你講的我完全認同。但是重點就在於,如果我們在國考那個階段,我們把最重要的"},{"start":28715.424,"end":28715.524,"text":"﹚一、二、3、4﹚"},{"start":28739.009,"end":28739.27,"text":"我剛才講過這個"},{"start":28761.139,"end":28778.192,"text":"讓副理人員願意留任,那這裡面有很多的措施,剛才已經講。那薪資是其中之一,當然是嘛,很重要。但是除此之外,他的這個就業的成就感,民眾對他的重視,以及他能不能有進修等等這些都很重要。"},{"start":28780.594,"end":28804.346,"text":"院長我想這些問題當然都很重要但是我相信在這個新思跟改善環境我想這個會後我將來我們在外環委員會還會再跟這個部長再來就教我們希望我們共同找出問題看到問題不用覺得說好像很可恥還是看到問題不想面對不是看到問題要高興因為我們就知道怎麼去解決了可是要面對那接下來我想"},{"start":28805.126,"end":28825.121,"text":"院長為什麼我討論過那麼多次那本席非常關心護理人員荒因為這關心的是關心的是全國人民的健康尤其在桃園院長知道嗎我真的覺得本席這個選區桃園真的很可憐桃園的這個平均床數在六都倒數第五而且每萬人口只有27.5張的一般病床"},{"start":28828.624,"end":28850.54,"text":"每萬人口只有27.5張一般病床只有2.68張的家戶病床這很可怕一萬個人只是去搶27張病床那你看現在護理人員不足我們還一直關床然後我們桃園市人口一直在增加所以這個問題非常恐怖所以你可以從這個數據上看到這在我們桃園它是一個嚴重的問題那再者再來"},{"start":28852.264,"end":28878.437,"text":"我正替我們桃園教區本來在這一次醫學中心的升格的評鑑我們要知道桃園有一個長庚醫院算醫學中心至於桃園人來說只能算0.3或0.5肩膀因為其實在新北市其實這個醫學中心大家都在共用的原本桃園地區所有的民眾們都引領期盼這一次的醫學中心的升格會是花落桃園"},{"start":28879.938,"end":28906.329,"text":"本來應該是在去年12月要公布的可是看起來選前沒有公布直到選後所以我們在桃園大家也都在說這莫非是這個衛福部行政院在懲罰我們桃園只因為桃園可能在這個立委的選舉國民黨六席權上結果原來啊連之前王必勝次長都常常跟我們說他非常肯定我們桃園不立議院我們有最好的醫師我們最好的護理師他們有最好的服務最好的態度最好的專業而這次縱見落馬"},{"start":28908.87,"end":28933.309,"text":"對他們來說對整個部桃來說是很大的一個挫折對桃園市民來說也是很大的不公平所以我想這就是我非常非常的期待我們能夠讓我們桃園的醫療能夠再升級一點好這個是過去了但是有一件我們現在病床數不足的問題部桃現在正在興建第二醫療大樓那我們也確定行政院已經合訂了對嗎對"},{"start":28934.96,"end":28935,"text":"總預算經費是85億對嗎?"},{"start":28954.799,"end":28963.483,"text":"85億對嗎?對,差不多。這個85億,其中自償性經費53億,要我們不逃自籌。非自償20億,地下佔備空間6億,這個部分中央由工建計畫來支應。然後我們醫療儀器的設備5億,如果這個工程順利完工,這個5億中央一樣從工建計畫當中會來補充。這出了一個問題了。"},{"start":28983.433,"end":29002.149,"text":"我想不逃去哪裡找這53億啊?顯然現在公共工程如果要我們的這個工程能夠順利都有一點困難所有工程都是所以看起來醫療儀器的設備武藝搞不好也會落在不逃的地方所有的醫院都是這樣"},{"start":29003.03,"end":29023.177,"text":"布陶現在的現狀讓院長知道一下那現在布陶準備要拿出的是他歷年來辛苦所賺積蓄所得40億拿出來好40億還是不夠怎麼辦他現在要再去貸款40億那為什麼還要貸款到40億呢因為我們有一個新屋分院也在蓋"},{"start":29024.097,"end":29051.955,"text":"第二醫療大樓現在也在蓋也是行政院合訂的合訂我的感謝然後呢我們這個部桃啊還有急症中心動力中心也都需要錢所以貸款40億那院長你不能光合訂啊然後不給錢啊委員我想你可能不太了解什麼叫做自償性經費為什麼叫做自償性因為一旦醫院開一擴增了以後呢他就會開始有這一個收入那這個收入呢他會慢慢的來償還"},{"start":29053.516,"end":29082.122,"text":"那這個衛福部的醫院通通是這樣子不是只有對桃園這樣所以我想而且每一個醫院也都是因為這樣但是他的治常性的部分都能夠達到目標嘛譬如說岐山醫院也好或者是台北醫院也好都是這樣子的那我們是一視同仁我們也知道桃園很重要所以你看看桃園我們馬上合併兩個醫院所以這個治常性不用擔心你不用替他們擔心"},{"start":29082.982,"end":29096.618,"text":"我非常理解但是我一定要替他們擔心真的因為我替他們擔心就是幫助我們全桃園市的市民的健康所以我相信您也很重視我相信我們薛瑞元這個部長也很重視所以本市也希望在這過程當中"},{"start":29097.779,"end":29113.201,"text":"有需要讓他們去花掉所有過去的積蓄這40億尤其這40億我的理解關於部桃很多的軟體設備的添購維修都會要用到這個錢將來會不會有排擠我也是希望在會後部長是不是能夠把部桃請來"},{"start":29115.043,"end":29143.975,"text":"那好好地開個會去研究一下那核定給我們以後啊這當然非常重要因為現在這第二醫療大樓啊要擴建大概400床的病床而且還要增加外科手術室負壓隔離病房高危險產房嬰兒室等等啊我們希望絕對不能延宕但是這不會是不逃啊自己就有辦法把它好好這個工程全部完成的我們希望中央啊衛福部也會協助他啦對就是希望衛福部要全力協助也希望啊就是"},{"start":29144.495,"end":29169.152,"text":"院長在柏林之前能夠再多關注一下這個案子能夠給予更多的補助那對布陶來講會更公平一些那所以這個議題我想會後我也希望有個機會跟我們薛瑞文部長我們再約個時間仔細的討論一下怎麼樣讓布陶這個工程盡快完成不過有一件事情我先跟委員做一個很簡短的報告我們的護理人力"},{"start":29170.012,"end":29180.531,"text":"往年的話都是12月開始減少那1月就一直降一直降到4月5月以後才上來今年因為我們的措施下去的話1月沒有減少"},{"start":29181.681,"end":29184.103,"text":"那我會找時間跟薛部長再來提出這件事情。"},{"start":29204.482,"end":29204.502,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":29225.367,"end":29239.618,"text":"有優惠有票沒有車這在很多地方都有那當然我想我們交通部也提出了獎勵的措施3億9千萬公共運輸駕駛擴大徵才獎勵方案那本來是希望招募客運駕駛1800人遊覽車司機3000人但目前指導到客運司機868人遊覽車司機94人"},{"start":29246.944,"end":29269.716,"text":"執行率剛好站上20%所以這執行率是非常差的那我本期希望部長跟院長可以再討論一下這樣的方案執行率這麼差需不需要再做一個調整那以逃課為例去年逃課二月份的時候跟交通部提報了149名司機的缺額透過這個方案也不過才增到了38名缺額高達111名"},{"start":29273.538,"end":29288.524,"text":"還有更離譜的是這個方案是去年3月實施的結果到去年12月我們發現你實施完這個方案全國客運的人數不增反減這是很誇張的事情所以這個政策顯然有需要調整跟改變的地方"},{"start":29289.624,"end":29305.895,"text":"當然過去跟部長跟院長在討論的時候與司法系也好與實際的狀況也好與你們對這個問題不夠了解也好常常都說要地方縣市政府也要自己來處理但我必須要講地方縣市政府財源狀況不一"},{"start":29308.257,"end":29325.551,"text":"所以沒有辦法每一個人都可以寄出像張善政市場這樣子業者提供2000塊我們再下8000每個月1萬給我們的這個司機讓他們可以留住不離開那甚至於在這個新考進來的這個司機員在訓練當中我們也可以撥錢給他但不是每一個縣市都做得到的"},{"start":29325.871,"end":29327.872,"text":"當然吶,這個缺司機最嚴重的代表性我想在我桃園吶也就是"},{"start":29342.437,"end":29361.804,"text":"五二零三A一六六二一三五六九零零五這都是原本今年要到期以後業者就不續約了當然部長那天有提到說你不會讓他斷線但你沒有提到你不會讓他斷線這個時間可以維持多久半年不會斷線一年永久不會斷線這是第一個問題"},{"start":29363.444,"end":29389.679,"text":"第二個就是說不只是剛剛所說的5203、1662、1356、9005包括我們的9023、9009、5009等等這些都是到臺北、新北非常重要的一個路線所以我是想請教我們的部長、院長我們可以承諾桃園這些連外道路的公車、國道客運都不會斷線這是永久的嗎?"},{"start":29391.247,"end":29406.372,"text":"公委報告事實上你剛才談到擴大徵才就業我們已經總共1454人全國的確在這個環境很多人疫情以後就不願意回來我上次提到因為地方的公車的部分這可能在市政府"},{"start":29406.732,"end":29410.933,"text":"我只是想請教您一下,您那時候回答的絕對不會斷線,指的是永久的嗎?所以只能做階段性的,做緊急階段性的處理嗎?我想喔,那個"},{"start":29427.938,"end":29450.145,"text":"部長跟院長我們再來討論一個問題我想這個科運商業同業公會全國聯合會在去年的10月17號曾經提出一個方案就是他們希望運價要調漲那也希望增加營運的補貼那這個方案我聽說還是在這個部長您的桌上那現在到了什麼樣的地方了我們過去的這個給"},{"start":29454.542,"end":29473.164,"text":"公車的這些補助有增加兩塊錢是給公車司機的啦這個在做那當然就是說審查過來的這個討論我們必須經過一個委員會那這個程序事實上沒有在我報告﹖所以還在審議還在審議委員那裡沒有在我桌子上因為我每天都會幫他看那我覺得啊既然我們有需要協助我們速度要加快"},{"start":29474.265,"end":29500.918,"text":"另外我想本席認為其實我們來把這個國道運價這客運的運價調漲這不是不可行那也就是說因為過去我們運價大概有17年左右不曾調漲那現在所有的成本都往上漲是可以考慮的時候那當然TPAS上路之後我們看到特別是桃園到台北桃園到新北的國道客運公車以及基隆到"},{"start":29501.858,"end":29523.789,"text":"臺北這是比較屬於叫做特殊通勤路線因為生活圈工作圈都在一塊所以剛才我們說到不管9005、9023、9009、5009現在的狀況其實都非常吃緊都是去的時候大排長龍常常過了兩三班都上不了車看起來是爆滿的量可是回程沒有客人"},{"start":29524.249,"end":29542.045,"text":"所以其實業者都還是虧損狀態那當然他們就會不想要開就不想要繼續行使這條路線所以我想我們是不是能夠部長在這邊跟我們承諾一下院長看看有沒有辦法支持我們來想辦法解決這樣的一個問題就第一個我們能夠在這個運價調漲的這件事情上面"},{"start":29544.087,"end":29560.947,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":29561.427,"end":29573.796,"text":"是不是可以把這個補貼在這個特殊的這個服務路線上面給予我們桃園或者基隆特別我們桃園再多一些這個補貼可不可以有這樣的一個這個方案來給我們"},{"start":29574.938,"end":29598.389,"text":"我目前有補貼機制基本上就是說印價跟實際成本的這個差有他的關係那剛才您提到如果他最後整個成本提高我們補貼本身就會跟著這個提高這個本來就會這樣做那現在這個本身要經過一個機制包括我們公路局的審查機制我想等他們審查機制出來我們再一一協助"},{"start":29599.668,"end":29627.544,"text":"我相信一定要審查啦沒有什麼事情是說了嘛他們可以做的喔那第一個速度要快第二個呢我想本席剛剛特別講到的桃園啊齁這些啊有非常多條我們的這個聯外聯外的這個通勤路線喔尤其是國道路線非常的多那這些比較特別的特殊服務的路線啊本身希望在這裡啊現請啊院長啊部長啊能夠針對我們這些路線讓他們能夠繼續安心的行駛下去讓我們桃園市的市民"},{"start":29628.284,"end":29644.726,"text":"國道路線上要往返臺北新北這種大共同生活圈的工作圈不至於沒有公車可以搭那也會失了TPAS的一個美意能不能給我們這個特殊服務的路線能夠提出一個補貼的方案"},{"start":29645.781,"end":29670.633,"text":"我們沒有辦法說特別,因為國道科研全國都有,但是我們是確保他通行不會停止。你如果沒有一個特殊服務路線的補貼方案,你的確保很難有幸福度。我意思說不要用特殊,比如說如果他成本提高以後,我們就是審查通過,我們就補貼。我想這個是我今天跟您提出來的。"},{"start":29671.573,"end":29672.293,"text":"最後我想那個院長"},{"start":29693.288,"end":29693.788,"text":"我們修一下這個表格"},{"start":29709.321,"end":29730.286,"text":"那這當中我們也看到因為不斷的去流標有一個很嚴重的狀況出來了我們看到在這個臨時軌的電子連鎖系統工程第一次招標的預算8億多決標的金額12億增加了3億多這還不是最嚴重的往下看我們在中壢車站的鐵路地下化已經決標了"},{"start":29731.206,"end":29747.785,"text":"他第一次開標124億然而最近的這次開標絕標出去155億這個相差31億那更遑論桃園這個車站鐵路地下化中路車站鐵路地下化都還沒有標出去我們就個別增加了26億跟35億都還標不出去這個問題非常嚴重"},{"start":29752.23,"end":29753.131,"text":"謝謝萬委員美玲的質詢,也謝謝陳院長。"},{"start":29781.226,"end":29786.408,"text":"接下來我們請登記第19位黃委員秀芳請質詢。謝謝院長,我們請陳院長跟交通部部長。"},{"start":29820.351,"end":29834.995,"text":"謝謝院長我記得我在2016年剛就職上任立法委員的時候我在第一個會期同樣質詢林全院長就是有關彰化的鐵路高架"},{"start":29835.655,"end":29857.606,"text":"那時間也經過了8年那我還是在第一會期這個第11屆的第一個會期同樣在質詢我們的陳院長彰化的鐵路高架真的講得非常的久那在這個兩年這個差不多接近兩年的時候行政院已經這個核定那現在是進入到綜合規範對"},{"start":29859.347,"end":29882.299,"text":"我看到綜合規劃將近兩年的時間這個綜合規劃還是停在到底是要三軌或四軌還沒有確定那我是不是可以請院長或者是部長跟我回答一下因為我覺得總是要有一個時間要不然可能在時間再過了四年可能還在討論所以我覺得地方都等不及了是不是可以請院長來回答"},{"start":29882.879,"end":29909.776,"text":"我目前是如果成整個台鐵的營運來講要試軌因為山海縣的會籍就是在彰化這個地方我們是朝這方面來進行那目前中國規劃已經到結束現在剩下最後一個課題就是現在的彰化檢修廠要移到哪裡那過去他是放在花壇花壇是因為他往北嘛往北他可以經過彰化台中"},{"start":29910.509,"end":29931.8,"text":"那後來在這個縣政府是希望說能夠移到大渡去那大渡的話就是他往北就是這個臺中了所以彰化服務不到那兩個各有他的比如說在花壇有徵收的課題那目前這個部分我們是希望在商業跟地方政府做一個討論我們初步還是希望在花壇以台鐵的營運來講"},{"start":29934.002,"end":29947.242,"text":"現在的這個檢修廠就在彰化站的南端嘛。它的重點就是要往北,因為它很多是從花壇到南港或花壇到花蓮的這個車子。如果在這個大渡的話它就要回車。"},{"start":29950.432,"end":29963.949,"text":"這個可能是技術性的吧那是不是有可能去克服如果說按照目前的這個計畫可能要徵收可能有35公頃那徵收這個這個民地或者是民房可能是"},{"start":29964.589,"end":29964.609,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":29988.656,"end":29988.676,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":30004.517,"end":30004.537,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":30023.05,"end":30030.596,"text":"目前的進度是怎樣?目前就是最後在這個檢修廠的位置。我想最後大概這個問題,綜合規範已經做差不多了。最後就是靠這個在三頁會做跟地方政府做最後的確定。"},{"start":30050.27,"end":30077.518,"text":"所以3月份會做最後的確定我想中央跟地方一定要坐下來好好談然後要互相了解怎麼樣才是最好的方案我也希望委員有機會的話也請縣政府也跟我們這邊能夠坐下來好好談然後彼此了解需要那如果真的是需要再發談的時候那怎麼來解決我是覺得溝通是很重要"},{"start":30078.354,"end":30079.676,"text":"現在的檢修廠很多都是"},{"start":30094.775,"end":30094.795,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":30110.177,"end":30125.756,"text":"我想這方面我們也有跟張華縣政府做過討論那當然他最大的壓力來自於說這個拆遷啦拆遷這個是他最大的壓力但是我覺得要不要一起克服然後讓民眾也不要太吃虧我想這方面我們可以再跟他討論"},{"start":30126.741,"end":30152.442,"text":"那是全部都會在花壇還是有一部分會在這個大都或者是有一部分會在二水目前我們是在花壇就是說因為你了解嘛彰化鐵路高架以後他爬不上去所以要往南跑所以有一塊基地做往北車輛的這個檢修廠現在目前我們是希望在花壇大都已經要往南因為他主要花車都往北的你這樣服務不到彰化"},{"start":30153.618,"end":30157.639,"text":"所以我這邊真的要再次的拜託行政院還有我們的交通部這邊真的針對這個議題這個重大的建設真的要費心一點而且"},{"start":30173.817,"end":30197.184,"text":"要定期跟地方政府要去溝通要不然地方政府如果說是中央卡他一直都不動的話其實我相信院長在這個這次的選舉你應該也聽到很多就是地方政府就一些重大建設都說中央卡中央卡地方政府的建設那我是認為這個重大建設是不論是中央跟地方是一起的"},{"start":30198.044,"end":30223.131,"text":"所有的民眾看到就是說這個到底有沒有進度,大家不會去分說這個是中央的權責或是地方的權責,不會。所以就是說拜託這個行政院這邊真的針對這個彰化的鐵路高架,真的要費心,因為讓它有進度。那我相信院長你在去年11月的時候你有自己親自到彰化的這個扇形車庫,"},{"start":30224.171,"end":30224.191,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":30241.292,"end":30262.509,"text":"所以感覺就是說整個彰化影響最大就是整個鐵路高架彰化目前沒有比較重大的一個建設那就是鐵路高架還有捷運綠線還有捷運綠線所以我拜託這個院長還有部長真的針對這一部分真的要用心那是不是可以給我們一個期程比如說剛剛部長講剛剛部長講3月份你們會這個"},{"start":30266.852,"end":30267.252,"text":"好不好?"},{"start":30293.769,"end":30303.616,"text":"另外一個我要問的是捷運,這個捷運,院長你知道?我知道,這是綠線延伸嘛,綠線延伸彰化。院長去年在選舉的時候,"},{"start":30308.979,"end":30335.247,"text":"台中捷運綠線延伸到彰化北延到大坑南延到彰化那這個也是地方覺得可以帶動地方發展的一個很重要的軌道建設剛剛我講的鐵路高架的建設那還有一個就是台中捷運綠線延伸到彰化那很高興的也很感謝就是說行政院也通過就是可行性評估是有條件的通過那就是未來這個在綜合規劃之前"},{"start":30338.368,"end":30361.736,"text":"這個東張的這個擴大都市計畫要聯動要一起一起嘛那我也希望也要拜託就是說因為這個捷運綠線未來這個是也是影響到整個彰化的發展因為我們是期待臺中捷運綠線延伸到彰化如果未來到彰化之後那未來再規劃到彰化的鹿港"},{"start":30362.316,"end":30391.191,"text":"那這個是可以整個帶動整個彰化的一個都市發展那我希望就是說也拜託院長針對這一部分也是要請中央跟地方要一起配合委員你講到很大的重點就是因為在這個延伸到彰化的這個部分的這個都市計畫的部分現政府扮演一個很關鍵的角色那當時我們也一直盼望著能夠在"},{"start":30391.971,"end":30408.729,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":30410.417,"end":30426.764,"text":"所以我就說希望就是未來是鐵路高架或是台中捷運綠線因為一般的民眾他不會分說這個是中央權責或是地方的權責只要是地方政府說這中央卡他"},{"start":30427.404,"end":30444.051,"text":"議長你不覺得這一次就是你一直聽到就是中央在卡地方的這樣的聲音嗎?所以說我們也要拜託委員我本身也要跟民眾講一個建設可以成功或不能成功其實中央、地方兩方面都很重要如果說地方沒辦法配合、沒辦法做"},{"start":30451.614,"end":30463.861,"text":"這我們就要講清楚,像這個綠線的延伸彰化一塊,我們真的很擔心的是說中華營自己的綠色計畫的部分是不是做好,這點是我們到現在還沒信心,說實在的,但是這一定,但是"},{"start":30470.385,"end":30475.969,"text":"所以我一家就是說我當一個民意代表那我也希望就是說中央跟地方一起合作那地方可能碰到一些問題那是不是也拜託中央這邊來協助讓進速讓這個鐵路高架還有台中捷運綠線能夠進速"},{"start":30498.644,"end":30508.291,"text":"這個能夠在綜合規劃之前,當然就是說這個章化的東章的這個都市計畫能夠趕快來進行。那確實就是說……那都市計畫有什麼問題要請教,我也可以請那個賴正波來幫忙,到三天。"},{"start":30515.555,"end":30521.877,"text":"所以就是說我一件拜託就是說我們應該中央跟地方也要有一些時間比如說幾個月幾個月內大家一起合作一起討論碰到什麼樣的問題那那個期程"},{"start":30536.101,"end":30553.114,"text":"﹗"},{"start":30553.214,"end":30570.627,"text":"我們想這樣,我們看什麼事情是內政部國土署可以做的,什麼是交通部可以做的,什麼是管政府要做的,我們把它分得清楚。像你說三個月給你們報告一次,這沒問題,但是報告一次的時候,我們也要看什麼單位應該負責的部分。"},{"start":30576.432,"end":30579.935,"text":"院長我要講的就是說軌道建設也是我們在這個前就是小英政府時期我們講的就是"},{"start":30596.949,"end":30613.077,"text":"很重要這個前瞻基礎建設裡面的軌道建設這個部分台中捷運綠線是這個軌道建設之一那78年都快過了那都還在都還在剛可行性評估才剛通過所以我是"},{"start":30614.978,"end":30634.296,"text":"認為說這個應該是政府的一個重大建設是中央跟地方大家一起合作就是不分這個是地方的事情當然就是說我們一起把這建設把它完成因為我們知道說臺灣人很喜歡到日本去玩那為什麼很喜歡到日本去玩"},{"start":30634.616,"end":30650.606,"text":"﹚"},{"start":30650.919,"end":30674.346,"text":"其實交通部因為金還要死去,說我國政府趕緊做什麼事情,那就是他們金,但是一邊金就不好,那要兩邊。我們交通部實際上在軌道建設,你看這一次綠線延伸,我們會可行性的核定,還有有條件性的核定,就是我們也急著要把它趕快推出來。所以說這個我們會全力以赴。"},{"start":30677.307,"end":30703.49,"text":"好,那剛剛部長也在這邊,其實在剩下幾秒鐘的時間,我希望說部長可能要去討論一下整個臺灣的這個道路,大家講的這個道路可能對行人很不友善,可能要去做一個整體的一個盤點,那如果說讓開車的人或者是這個行人都要安全,"},{"start":30704.07,"end":30705.232,"text":"我跟委員報告現在院長的合作"},{"start":30737.097,"end":30740.879,"text":"謝謝黃委員秀芳的質詢也謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第20號呂委員玉琳質詢謝謝院長請陳院長再請陳院長備詢"},{"start":30768.516,"end":30772.685,"text":"六人午安 郭卿麟今天再來一天 我是最後一個"},{"start":30773.447,"end":30799.434,"text":"所以我們可以慢慢來回答首先請問院長因為我們兩岸的局勢一直在升溫雙方的互信基礎非常的薄弱那尤其這一次的大陸快艇翻覆的這個事件在2月14號發生那當時他進入我們金門的海域的時候海巡署第一時間他是需要去上船去來做檢查但是大陸的漁船拒檢"},{"start":30800.194,"end":30822.111,"text":"而且他在逃逸的時候捨行去碰撞到那在2月20號的時候我們海巡署特別的表示因為大陸漁船他聚解而發生碰撞所以現在確定想請問的是院長是因為碰撞而發生翻覆的情形嗎這有沒有相關聯這個已經請相關的專家"},{"start":30828.522,"end":30856.542,"text":"小組在做鑑定現在鑑定結果還沒有出來現在確定是傳之有凹痕嗎?就是碰撞碰撞是跟這個翻覆有關係囉有關案情的部分跟委員報告謝謝您的關心有關案情的部分目前都在檢察官的偵辦的過程之中有檢察官全盤的在掌握那有關案情的說明我們認為說任何一方的說明都是片面之詞那就是要真相"},{"start":30857.422,"end":30857.562,"text":"所以院長"},{"start":30882.225,"end":30890.895,"text":"因為現在就是沒有影像無法還眼所以我們真相還是要釐清在這個當下我們就是希望我們可以溝通協調把各方的問題找出來解決這個歧見"},{"start":30897.59,"end":30925.128,"text":"而且現在的話沒有辦法達成共識是目前罹難的家屬是希望把罹難的這個遺體跟船隻可以送回大陸但是我們海巡署是無法接受的報告委員兩個部分一個部分是有關於案情的偵查這個部分沒辦法透過溝通協調這絕對是檢察官他的偵辦才能夠去懷疑因為我們是尊重檢察官的偵辦但是我們希望趕快"},{"start":30926.249,"end":30927.07,"text":"所以你現在對此委員．他現在已經宣布"},{"start":30947.41,"end":30954.792,"text":"這件事情目前因為個案被做這樣的政治的連結我們非常的不樂見但是我們比較不宜說在這個時候我們就去說這是一個如何的常態如何的長遠"},{"start":30975.137,"end":30997.265,"text":"現在他已經進入我們金門的海域了,那海巡署應該有什麼應變的措施?我們都有應處,在台灣的海域不管是各國的船隻,不只是中國的船隻,越南的船隻,或者是甚至於哪一國的船隻,我的舉例並不代表他們會進來。任何一個國家的船隻在我們所執法的海域,只要一直進來,"},{"start":31003.106,"end":31027.133,"text":"我們都有應對。都派船出去應對。我們會廣播。堅守海域的安全。那是因為現在有M503我們整個的航線衝擊了我們整個非安的安全。但是我們在這種情形之下我們看到的我們對大陸的嚴正抗議是必要的。但是你禁止了我們台灣的團客赴大陸。這個是在懲戒"},{"start":31028.473,"end":31054.955,"text":"大陸來代表著來對我們國家的尊嚴嗎?還是說在犧牲了我們臺灣我們國民的這個旅遊的旅遊業者和我們國民旅遊的權益嗎?我想任何國家兩個國家在旅遊觀光上呢應該是彼此互惠的那臺灣呢一向就是准我們的這一個"},{"start":31057.018,"end":31059.059,"text":"是這樣子才互相有善意嗎?"},{"start":31085.846,"end":31112.527,"text":"王部長我記得你有說過喔在我們總統當選人賴清德總統他的這個當選的時候他特別有講到要多多釋出善意而且也會開放我們的團客的來往嘛那尤其是我們在部長在去年11月的時候也有宣布開放在3月1號就開放這個入客要來台嘛"},{"start":31113.234,"end":31113.354,"text":"我跟你們報告"},{"start":31140.885,"end":31160.012,"text":"如果逆差公關逆差800億損傷的是比如說以桃園來講我們的旅宿業者公關的這個餐飲業者是損失在他們身上這先跟委員報告第二個營業者損失我們現在已經3月1號到5月底我們知道因為組一個團三個月嘛所以我們當時就算這樣讓他這個團都出去"},{"start":31160.672,"end":31172.382,"text":"所以這個都出去所以你認為6月1號禁止就可以嗎?你要知道7、8月是暑假很早就把這個團隊團客的都賣出去喔旅遊的單價都賣出去喔這個都算了7、8月這個也算嗎?我跟委員報告7、8月就可以併團請他併進來"},{"start":31177.947,"end":31196.677,"text":"另外他們現在最大的7、8月是暑假要怎麼樣併進來呢?第一個如果能併團不能併團的部分現在最大的要補償嗎?現在最大一筆就是航空公司的訂金這個我們現在米朗姐來幫忙他們所以部長你答應要補償就對了這個部分我們在處理中處理是補償嗎?就是"},{"start":31200.539,"end":31218.558,"text":"當然就是說溝通看他最後的大概有什麼損失啊所以剛剛聽到部長你特別講說這因為是大陸陸客不來我們一直去的話這個有逆差對不對800億選擇了我自己對有逆差那我們相對來講的話如果說這樣講本席就看了一下子喔像我們2022年跟2023年進口"},{"start":31222.041,"end":31239.093,"text":"美國進口的這個豬肉啊他就成長了百分之一千兩百八十三那這也是貿易的逆差那我們是不是要終止這個中斷這個美國的這個貿易逆差那是豬肉欸不是貿易豬肉也是貿易啊也是逆差啊"},{"start":31240.353,"end":31259.743,"text":"所以我們要整體性,我們要以觀光產業,不能因為是逆差,我們要去發展其他觀光產業,對不對?我們要從別的地方來補這個缺點嗎?不管哪一個產業,兩個國家如果有互信、有對等,然後彼此很好的交流"},{"start":31260.243,"end":31271.611,"text":"這就是善意的回應所以觀光也好所以善意是互相的啦互相才能夠所以院長的意思說他大陸客來的話我們的臺灣的團客才可以去了就基本的這樣子的說法嗎"},{"start":31280.437,"end":31288.885,"text":"不是我要呼籲院長我們要共同的來解決溝通協調才有共識解決這問題一起努力我們現在是討論觀光產業啦所以請王部長這個部分的話我們要看觀光產業因為我怎麼"},{"start":31301.476,"end":31323.065,"text":"你瞭解這觀光產業呢?就是說2019年我們的所有的這整個觀光這個國際觀光客有1186萬嘛你特別在去年的時候你也說你有信心今年會達到1200萬對不對那你的信心那入客不來的話入客佔了271萬"},{"start":31325.166,"end":31339.219,"text":"但將近四分之一,你們要怎麼補呢?我舉個例子嘛,去年我們本來說是六百萬人次的觀光人數,我們沒有看到對岸的善意,可是我們從"},{"start":31341.701,"end":31349.327,"text":"所以臺灣是四處善意,我們現在來解決問題,院長、黨結組都已經提出到這個問題上面,現在部長要解決我們觀光人士的問題啊,他已經誇下海口說要1200萬嘛,1200萬,國際有這麼多國家嗎?你只有陸克而已嗎?"},{"start":31361.337,"end":31362.818,"text":"我們看到喜歡來台灣的觀光客裡面尤其是"},{"start":31378.203,"end":31398.781,"text":"港澳、日本、韓國是前三名的這個是我們的重點目標對對對那我本席在這邊建議就是說除了這個鄰近我們這個三個國家之外我們是不是還可以開發到像歐美國家歐美國家我們看到他的人次大概30萬人嘛那港澳的話是120萬人次喔"},{"start":31400.743,"end":31416.117,"text":"所以我們是不是要開辦他那邊有個辦事處多的宣傳來補助這個人事呢?我們現在去年大概16個辦事處最近今年包括印度跟歐洲本來就有"},{"start":31416.818,"end":31417.839,"text":"因為這個消費這個市場會比較大一點比較高一點是嗎?"},{"start":31436.038,"end":31458.633,"text":"對,歐洲過去來台灣比較少,比起來因為比較近啦,東岸比較近。因為距離的關係啦,跟對台灣人的不了解,所以要去多宣傳嘛。對,這個是我們重點之一。是,好,所以我們希望我們兩岸的關係趕快都能夠在這個開春的時候能夠春暖花開,也能夠撥雲見日,好好的兩岸釋出善意,才能真的來解決這個問題啦齁。"},{"start":31460.414,"end":31482.285,"text":"接下來本席要談的就是我們桃園跟台北、雙北、新北都是一個共同的生活圈那尤其是我們在整個基礎建設以外的完善還有產業還有很多的工作的機會都會連結在一起尤其是我們這次桃園也有來申請"},{"start":31483.618,"end":31511.501,"text":"申請聯合醫學中心很可惜沒有在評比裡面前面有委員提到這個問題本心想救教的就是說我們桃園物理醫院也有來申請我們看到整個臺北地區申請合格有10個醫院那整個北區的話有3個醫院來申請只有2個"},{"start":31514.776,"end":31537.496,"text":"請問這兩個在哪裡?一個在新竹一個在桃園一個在林口的長庚醫院嗎?所以這個我要就教的就是我們薛副長我們醫學中心的門檻是要多少人才有一個醫學中心?本來的規劃是200萬人桃園有多少人口?"},{"start":31538.673,"end":31548.065,"text":"那是要一個區一個區北區嘛北區北區是炒豬鳥那台北新北這個雙北有10所醫院為什麼"},{"start":31548.988,"end":31568.019,"text":"我們桃園一所醫學中心都沒有剛剛特別講的就是林口的長庚醫院他離新北最近大概都服務於新北的人那你現在何止你一所在新竹新竹在這個一兩年的時候我們桃園增加的人口數將近有12萬13萬"},{"start":31570.541,"end":31587.082,"text":"新竹增加的人口只有5萬,我們為什麼桃園不能夠升格,不能有醫學中心,我們桃園有234萬人口欸。所以我們整個醫療非常匱乏的情況之下,所以我們非常不了解為什麼我們沒有被審查通過啊。"},{"start":31587.983,"end":31588.604,"text":"請院長本席有個建議啦"},{"start":31613.888,"end":31614.209,"text":"哪一個?哪一所?"},{"start":31623.735,"end":31625.716,"text":"應該是再努力就會有,因為今年是差一點點"},{"start":31653.786,"end":31674.281,"text":"某一個項目的話因為沒有達標所以就就沒有哪個部分沒達標在醫院評鑑的部分有一個有一個部分病床數還是醫療是什麼原因還是醫療項目就是我所知道的是跟資訊系統所以他現在是準醫學中心了"},{"start":31675.795,"end":31682.76,"text":"所以醫學中心的話表示我們衛福部會繼續輔導嗎?當然啦,那是我們的意願我請院長跟部長要重視桃園234萬我講很多遍了"},{"start":31690.851,"end":31712.968,"text":"所以請重視我們的醫療那尤其是現在我們桃園國軍總醫院現在要蓋新的醫療大樓會增加到病床數有876床所以我也請重視我們桃園國軍總醫院它是在南區剛剛講的部立院是在北區讓我們南北醫療能夠均衡"},{"start":31713.709,"end":31732.405,"text":"平衡之下,我也請把這兩所列為準醫學中心,讓我們的醫療能獲得更完善好不好。我說他們現在都已經升格為醫療中心了,不只是醫療大樓病床的問題,還有很多項目,所以也是可以符合大家的規定嘛。"},{"start":31733.166,"end":31759.066,"text":"整合的標準我知道有整合標準我現在是建議好不好那我們市政府也會提出整個完善的輔導他們要努力達到標準這是根據專家的醫院評鑑而來的所以在這個準醫學中心之前可不可以我們桃園市政府就先來找一些地方我們也評鑑好幾個地方提出了幾個地方來做聯合診所"},{"start":31761.487,"end":31788.649,"text":"跟委員報告齁,如果是醫院是小於100床以下的,那市政府就可以核定了。超過100床以上才需要送到...聯合診所欸?聯合診所基本上都是在市政府就處理了。診所啦,沒有住院的那一種診所。還是要送衛福部來輔導?沒有,就是市政府就可以核定了。可是我們醫療的資源啊?"},{"start":31793.641,"end":31820.877,"text":"沒有,這剛剛委員講的是診所嘛,阿如果是醫院當然就有醫院的規定,醫院就是有收住院的病床嘛。所以我們這兩所都可以了嘛齁,兩所這個部桃跟我們桃園國軍總醫院,它下蓋新的醫療大樓9月份就蓋好了,今年9月份就會蓋好了。是啦,我們都知道我們這空窗期還有一些聯合診所,我們請桃園市府這邊也趕快的來把這個完善的計畫做出來齁,好不好。"},{"start":31822.073,"end":31837.428,"text":"好那接下來這一聊講完我們想跟我們部長討論的就是龍科三期龍科三期謝謝薛部長我必須要講一下"},{"start":31839.588,"end":31862.748,"text":"院長在前行政院長蘇貞昌跟行政院的副院長鄭文燦接連的禁制宣布台積電的1.4奈米先進的這個製程會在龍潭然而台積電自始至終都沒有明確的表態要進駐龍潭草率的把科技產業當成選舉的支票讓台積電龍潭設廠產生變數"},{"start":31868.991,"end":31885.072,"text":"民眾直到2023年的7月份竹科管理局召開了公聽會前才知道自己的土地被劃設在農科三期的預定範圍內,所以溝通協調慢半拍才導致民怨。"},{"start":31886.209,"end":31909.675,"text":"我想這一件事情能夠成功是有公論不是只有像你念的這樣但是我想國科會這一邊也可以國科會、竹科、管理局那時候7月25號的時候在開公聽會的時候所有的民眾都已經反映了這個就是溝通不了慢半拍沒有溝通清楚提早宣布做選舉支票"},{"start":31912.52,"end":31939.03,"text":"才會產生的情形那本席要跟我們主委所講的跟院長所談的就是現在農科三級一定要繼續開發因為農科12期已經飽和了現在農科三級繼續開發的情形之下我們雖然是台積電我們還是會繼續來爭取但是我們有其他的產業像輝達輝達他現在也宣布了"},{"start":31940.23,"end":31956.557,"text":"他的物流中心在我們航空城的大園還有呢就是這個AI的這個研發中心我們就可以爭取來到我們的榮科三期所以我們在這個開發的時候我們是不是要先來找一些科技產業也來進駐我們的榮科三期呢"},{"start":31959.827,"end":31981.464,"text":"那個我跟這個委員報告事實上我們這個竹科管理局持續在跟農科那邊的居民有沒有去談找其他的科技產業我們持續會來跟居民溝通看看有哪些地方我們可以來處理事實上最近也會有一些溝通的這個公聽會"},{"start":31983.154,"end":32009.564,"text":"我們是希望在這個繼續開發我們現在直接講的你們也繼續都會再開發而且要邀集其他的科技產業進來但是要重要我剛剛講的溝通所有我們的鄉親的土地跟他們的這個居住權我們要溝通清楚不要溝通到一半而已讓我們的產業跟我們的民眾跟我們的這個整個科技"},{"start":32011.444,"end":32038.895,"text":"政府都能夠三贏的局面這才是最好的解決方式事實上我們也會跟當地的政府一起來合作事實上當地的那個政府應該對當地的居民應該是最了解那那個持續在進行當中而且現在特別有講到就是說在這個上半年今年的上半年還要再開兩次的公聽會嘛現在已經快要三月了你什麼時候再開兩次公聽會你的期程在什麼時候三、四月應該會啟動"},{"start":32040.299,"end":32042.14,"text":"接下來本席要繼續討論的就是我們桃園的建設"},{"start":32066.718,"end":32067.899,"text":"桃園鐵路"},{"start":32082.21,"end":32082.83,"text":"關於委員報告,現在它是個主體的標"},{"start":32104.896,"end":32129.085,"text":"在應該一個月內全部都會發報完畢所以主要的都會在去年的確有一年非常不順利都一直留標現在我們居然跟我說明說現在有兩標已經審查過了審查過就馬上公佈誰了另外兩標正在審查就是有廠商投進來所以主體標都沒問題但是唯一的這個在桃園車站的標會碰到這個文資的課題"},{"start":32130.425,"end":32157.893,"text":"這個部分是他們現在最擔心的。因為在我們憑證段的時候那個新光路那個平交道要做臨時軌嘛。去年大概10月要封路做臨時軌結果一直都沒有。我不曉得工程卡到哪裡。一樣就是花包不順利經費有點不足。那現在第一個我們在提這個修正計畫但最重要的工程在這個主體主體的這個四個標在一個月內應該都會花包完成。"},{"start":32158.554,"end":32163.848,"text":"我想說臨時軌的部分包括我們預算的調整也趕快來做所以我想說會趕快來追上這個進度"},{"start":32167.732,"end":32195.072,"text":"應該要讓整個工程能夠如期如質所以我剛剛特別提到的就是我們新光路這個品交道那因為我們南端的出土的位置不適當在666前面那因為這個問題我們附近十幾個里根包括我們張市長我們也都溝通在跟交通部這邊溝通協調現在已經拍板電了要南移1.2公里在鹿橋南路那這個計畫也要鐵道姐來做計畫送交通部再到行政院請問"},{"start":32196.733,"end":32212.083,"text":"現在送出了沒有?是,他還沒送到交通部。因為我跟委包,因為全面都進行一陣子齁,那你這個憑證的難以齁,他重新要做一點初步的可行性,所以他還需要時間。我知道他們現在加速在進行啦,也是。"},{"start":32212.989,"end":32226.555,"text":"這個是去年差不多9月的時間現在到這麼久了現在因為他只是難以1.2公里只要做環差而已啊很快的啊那請問部長什麼時候送進交通部在行政院他們現在他還在進行中還沒有給我時間點還沒有送上來大概多久現在加速中"},{"start":32239.005,"end":32259.753,"text":"我們希望整個工程都能夠順利那尤其是我們剛才講的整個計畫你們的發包的問題預算的問題預算穩定你發包才會順利才讓工期如期如質的完成所以請部長你們整體的要盤整要去精算一下那到時候不要跟我們講什麼缺工缺料的問題"},{"start":32260.913,"end":32276.715,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":32277.035,"end":32291.711,"text":"我們王副長要重視一下我們平鎮車站必須要有大車站所謂新都心帶來地方的繁榮發展才有讓我們建制這鐵路過去的這個如期的更加的加倍的效果好不好是"},{"start":32292.792,"end":32309.304,"text":"這一個部分我想說大車站計畫他重點在都市計畫。我知道臺灣市政府在延耐。都已經在做了。對在進行。我想他提出來以後有些都市計畫程序或是因為基本上車站旁邊跟這個土地開發這也是我們期待的。"},{"start":32309.784,"end":32335.591,"text":"所以我們希望趕快去把請示我會請市政府趕快把計畫送到我們交通部來然後合併之後來併入我們陶地的這個工程才不會耽誤會如期的來完成好不好無縫接軌吧是不是我們在等啦委員也是跟市長講一下委員跟市長拜託然後請市政府加緊啦有有都在做計畫了我們都在營運了很好啊很好好那鐵路講完我們講公路了這個"},{"start":32338.14,"end":32357.87,"text":"我們在地方的這個公路建設因為桃園也身處於國門有桃機有國一跟我們的國三還有一些橫向的尤其桃園市政府特別完成了這個五縱五橫的高快速道路的這個路網希望能夠打通我們整個桃園的路廊"},{"start":32358.45,"end":32383.59,"text":"那這個五條高速公路裡面快速道路裡面有兩條板龍快速道路跟新梅龍快速道路我們行政院已經同意做可行性的評估了那這個是這兩條剛好都屬於我們南桃園的那我們北桃園部分有三條是城中快速道路跟我們環城西路跟國一甲東沿道我們桃北這個地方那這個三條的部分我們"},{"start":32384.471,"end":32397.352,"text":"行政院這邊並沒有來協助,那我想跟地方請願,這三條因為是北桃跟南桃是連結整個路網路廊,所以可不可以一起來做評估呢?"},{"start":32399.075,"end":32418.003,"text":"因為現在的新屋、陽美跟龍潭還有包括板橋道龍潭這個是因為我們現在有一個計畫是投豬苗產業延期的這個規劃所以優先把它放進去那這個部分在應該在四頁兩個都可行性都會發報出去"},{"start":32421.043,"end":32424.967,"text":"可行性的一年就可以完成了那另外三條可以並做嗎因為他這整個路網路廊是連貫的嘛在整個桃園地方"},{"start":32437.023,"end":32450.782,"text":"對其他三條事實上我個人沒有看到臺灣市政府曾經提到這樣的計畫是那如果計畫送進去的話可以幫我們一起做評估嗎我先看那個計畫的內容一下好那就是我們部長在這邊待如果送進去的話一起來做評估了"},{"start":32454.766,"end":32474.191,"text":"謝謝王部長那本席為什麼特別要提到這個路網的非常的重要性因為這個板龍快速道路從土城一直到龍潭連接新北那尤其新梅龍的話更從龍潭到陽梅到新屋這個就在我們龍科三期的這個範圍內"},{"start":32475.791,"end":32504.16,"text":"那如果說未來這個人流跟我們的產業到我們的航空城這個物流的方面的話會更加的需要讓我們地方的不會有塞車的問題要讓我們地方產業地方發展不管是產業跟觀光最重要的就是交通所以整個連貫是非常重要的所以請部長在這邊一定幫我們這整個這個五條快速道路五縱五橫裡面這五橫裡面非常重要幫我們一併的來解決這個問題"},{"start":32506.641,"end":32522.82,"text":"我講現在比較有計畫就是板農跟新梅農這兩個現在就是在進行其他三個我們再看一下你已經同意了我說這三條剛好都是在北桃的這個部分我們先看他初步的方案好不好是因為過去"},{"start":32523.4,"end":32551.879,"text":"像這些道路是在政府院長當市長的時候也提過所以很明確其他我是三條我再看一下他們提出來的還是需要市政府的提出來他們的這個初步的方案出來我們討論一下因為都有提出來了因為市府特別在講說說因為因為有五橫的這個兩條我們行政院已經同意嘛所以另外北桃市三條的話也整個整個路網路廊來講的話是有必要性的喔那尤其是新聞龍"},{"start":32553.18,"end":32553.84,"text":"謝謝李委員、玉琳的質詢。謝謝陳院長。"},{"start":32582.503,"end":32599.946,"text":"報告委員會本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢。謝謝陳院長、政府院長以及各位部會所長的列席答詢。現在做以下的決定。下次會議繼續進行施政方針及施政報告之質詢。現在散會。謝謝大家。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}