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第二個我問你一下齁最近呢我想有看到一些訊息我覺得兆豐銀行那個董董他對這個非實名制的社群的部分行銷廣告連同這個網紅直播組、盤組都停止下廣告這個部分連同其他的民營銀行都已經加入了我覺得這是好事情啊這會不會是財政部的未來的政策"},{"start":119.708,"end":141.667,"text":"這個部分對於這個詐騙的這樣一個情形確實是而且我們兆豐起頭來做然後各個商各個金融機構都相繼加入是會讓他的效益更明顯兆豐都已經做了公股銀行從N年前就所組一個所謂ESG大聯盟結果到現在是兆豐來推這個社會責任的一個典範就財政部的做法到底在哪裡你有沒有要加碼"},{"start":144.172,"end":159.606,"text":"這部分我們可以再做思考可以再做檢討什麼檢討要加碼還有什麼好檢討的對不對這還什麼好檢討對的事情就要加碼要檢討什麼另外一個部分有些地方做得好的你要形成財政部的政策"},{"start":160.467,"end":183.932,"text":"所以我就看到核庫銀行他把一些5個分行給整併掉了這5個分行整併掉之後你知道嗎你自己有沒有算過整個分支機構台灣的這個銀行本土銀行、外商銀行、信用合作社、郵政儲蓄還有農業信用合作部、漁會、票券金融公司高達5890家我跟你講這比全家還多全家3932家"},{"start":186.252,"end":206.073,"text":"比7-11還少7-11呢6957家問題是現在網銀盛行啊問題是實體銀行的需求度沒有那麼高啊那財政部對這個部分的態度又是如何我覺得這底下的人在做啊做對的事情那你有沒有予以肯定有沒有可能加碼有沒有可能拉高這個決策的位階有沒有可能不漲"},{"start":208.24,"end":230.194,"text":"謝謝委員這樣的一個建議確實是對於正確的一個方向財政部本來就應該要再做更加大的一個推廣以至於做一個其他的分支機構都要再做一點你應該拉台內外接形成一個政策嘛不用個別銀行去處理用一個通用的方式來做處理你去看台南市一家零百貨公司零百貨旁邊不到200公尺有5家銀行"},{"start":231.815,"end":247.445,"text":"有五家不到200公尺五家銀行你去Google一下那這種情況底下就代表分支機構非常的多以前分支機構之所以會留著的原因是有它的道理為什麼因為以前在做銀行合併的時候一家分行啊行情是一億啊大家都捨不得關啊"},{"start":249.226,"end":273.437,"text":"現在還有這種行情嗎所以這種情況底下你應該去思考這個問題還有合併的部分今天報紙有提到所謂的公共不可行民營病可能比較有可能但是到底要怎麼併是不是可以透過子公司下層底下機構去併這也是一個考慮的方式就是互補這不一定是併什麼方式財政部要一個態度出來不誤雜"},{"start":274.938,"end":304.037,"text":"好不好是那是什麼時候給本席答覆跟委員報告我想您剛剛提到第一個就是布點的部分也就是實體銀行分支機構的布點的部分看有沒有對它的效益或有必要性應該是做一個全面性的一個盤整我想這個部分那您提到就是說有關公共病或者是下面的子公司銀行以外的相關子公司要不要做合併的我想這個部分還是要看它有沒有相關的負比有沒有中效"},{"start":305.157,"end":326.126,"text":"要發揮這樣的效果以及公會以及我們公會的立場這個都要去展覆大部分的人去銀行不是存錢跟領錢嘛我剛剛給你算了全家加7就超過1萬家了嘛再加上我們現在所有的相關的金融機構這個分行來算將近有6000家嘛對不對有需要那麼多家嗎這想也知道"},{"start":327.546,"end":342.625,"text":"怎麼弄會比較好不要影響到員工的權益這個部分你要去考慮為前提然後節省效率提高到效率嘛不是嗎我想這個股東或員工還有客戶的權益還有國家整體利益都要做考量的ESG的部分請你加碼"},{"start":343.106,"end":371.047,"text":"第二個部分那個分行的時候要調整的時候你要去思考把它政策化另外一個部分需要政策化一個面對的問題剛剛有委員提到你看中國啤酒主打台南牛肉湯我不曉得你們有喝過還有美國品牌產地都是中國然後都說世界知名品牌然後還寫到台灣原創品牌拜託這個酒類標準的辦法當中第13條就不能這樣做我們那天開公聽會之後"},{"start":372.182,"end":373.126,"text":"副署長有沒有回去跟你報告這個問題"},{"start":375.984,"end":383.688,"text":"我看你還在狀況外跟委員報告有關您今天開的相關的記者會這個部分我再跟你講中國大力補貼這個中國的啤酒啊從2013年開始為什麼中國的內需市場持續萎縮萎縮得非常的嚴重這是第一第二產品又過剩就是鄰近的國家就遭殃嘛"},{"start":403.018,"end":428.715,"text":"台灣就是啊台灣請消的方式在解決它產品過剩內需不足的問題啊啤酒就是一個最典型的例子嘛你去看2013年開始啊它有至少六大計畫最著名中國啤酒的十三五十四五大規模的補助喔現在還在補助喔要補助到2025喔它目標就是提高啤酒的產量銷售跟利潤還有呢它這樣的情況底下"},{"start":431.096,"end":449.426,"text":"總共中國的這個補助啤酒啊這個補助領了四五十億的補助之下中國的啤酒市佔率暴增四成啊2021開始啊每年都有17到24億的補助一罐啤酒啊這跟台灣的啤酒的價差高達3.65到6.21之間請銷率高達76.9啦然後過往"},{"start":456.01,"end":480.515,"text":"我們有對中國課反請銷稅不論是平板印刷或特定旅業或者是毛巾的部分中國也對我們課反請銷稅過我要問你的是說部長你面對這個問題的時候你有沒有可能啊把它視為啊這個請銷的可能性提出請銷提出反請銷的一個反制的可能性部長"},{"start":481.802,"end":495.245,"text":"跟委員報告這個啤酒這個就是中國政府對這個啤酒的補貼會不會構成傾銷目前關務署也正在處理當中那這個部分要進行處理的態度是什麼基本的立場是什麼我們會有關稅審議小組的會議來處理因為它有一定的流程來做而且要去做相關的調查所以朝廷有可能傾銷的可能要調查這部分要有小組的"},{"start":507.147,"end":523.316,"text":"對 就是調查是否是有傾銷的可能嘛傾銷以及對國內產業造成的一個傷害都要朝這個都必須要有一定的程序這已經很多年了捏 部長你知道嗎他們現在的市佔率從2015 8%現在已經暴增到34%進口的啤酒當中啊10罐當中有6罐是中國啤酒欸到現在才有感覺啊你要多久調查出來 我問一下"},{"start":534.961,"end":559.455,"text":"有一定的程序一定的程序可以加快嘛不是?不是嗎?副長報告委員這產業主管機關就是說還有這個產業工會還有業者那邊他會跟我們海關來提出申請反請銷的一個申請案件那再由財政部來審查他有沒有請銷的一個事實再由財政部來審查有沒有經濟的最快"},{"start":561.596,"end":576.509,"text":"署長這個已經有案例可循了我們有客戶他們的反省銷稅啊是最快多久報告委員這個最快齁這個成立反省銷稅照我們以前處理這個案件的經過可能都要8個月到1年以上你們盡量以8個月為目標好不好"},{"start":577.73,"end":591.309,"text":"這有一定的那個對阿就8個月到1年阿本期就要求你最快的速度8個月好不好當然就是這事情已經發生快10年之久了好不好就主要他要申請進來我們才有辦法去審那只要他申請進來我們會加快腳步"},{"start":594.333,"end":622.501,"text":"盡量喔 另外一個部分你來看喔那個署長你慢點走 我跟你講一下你看 我們銷去中國的這一個台幣齁被限制得很嚴重啊只有9.5萬啊 銷到中國中國進來我們這邊呢 是高達一千九百一千三百九十七萬的美金啦兩邊的貿易逆差啊高達一千兩百倍一千兩百倍那我們有沒有其他反制的方式讓我們台幣可以順利的進入中國市場 有沒有可能"},{"start":625.475,"end":640.043,"text":"目前還是暫停進口啊目前中國大陸對我...對啊他們可以一直進來源源不斷10罐裡頭有6罐的中國啤酒而且我們去卻不行這相當不公平的貿易嘛"},{"start":642.25,"end":662.749,"text":"部長要斷然的作為啦好不好不要說你知道這個沒有用啦要有效啦才有用啦好我最後問一下喔也是關務署的事情喔這個入境代酒的部分到底什麼時候能夠放寬成兩瓶啊老實說我就舉一個關鍵點啦"},{"start":663.59,"end":676.162,"text":"你們也知道稅損非常的有限稅損既然很有限的話那對產業的衝擊就相對非常有限嘛啊為什麼這個問題你們都要放出風聲之後只聞樓梯響沒有看見人下來啊"},{"start":678.323,"end":687.406,"text":"是跟委員報告,就是說我們現在正在彙整各產業主管機關的檢控會,是,那當然有一些可能贊成,對,我們大概一個月之後就會報到部裡面去,是"},{"start":694.846,"end":714.974,"text":"一個月報部部長你覺得這個有沒有合理?自用送你兩箱椅合不合理?至於自用一瓶送你一瓶啦自用送你兩箱椅啦這樣合不合理?這個部分我們會就關務組所提報出來我們整體做評估是製作評估?整體評估進度給我外界答案啦好 謝謝好 謝謝國務委員接著請代事保委員那個花妍"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:02:16+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:02:18.473000+08:00","text":"主席，有請財政部部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-13T10:02:18.473000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:02:20.946000+08:00","text":"請部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:02:20.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:02:21.206000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:02:21.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:02:23.369000+08:00","text":"部長，我們來談一下雲端發票吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:02:24.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:02:33.522000+08:00","text":"雲端發票出事的時候，你們有做了檢討，但是檢討之後卻改成匿名，這就改成黑箱，好像不願意面對問題，又變成鴕鳥！","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:02:33.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:02:34.803000+08:00","text":"我覺得這樣不對吧！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:02:34.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:02:35.104000+08:00","text":"可以這樣處理事情嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:02:40.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:02:45.205000+08:00","text":"第一個，我們應該要用誠信而且公開、公正的方式……是啊！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:02:45.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:02:48.947000+08:00","text":"怎麼可以這樣又變成匿名、私下通知，這樣不敢面對問題呢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:02:48.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:02:51.548000+08:00","text":"在這個問題還沒解決之前，部長，類似這種抽獎活動是不是應該先暫停啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:02:57.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:02:59.154000+08:00","text":"這個部分確實要檢討，我們也會做全面的……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:02:59.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:01.077000+08:00","text":"檢討最好的方式就是先暫停啊！","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:01.077000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:02.259000+08:00","text":"一定要檢討和改善。對啊！","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:02.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:11.412000+08:00","text":"你們還沒有重新提出改善方案之前，舊的方式就應該先暫停才對啊！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:11.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:13.294000+08:00","text":"沒有一個斷然處理的方式！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:15.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:23.017000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，目前因為已經接近年底，相關的活動大概都已經結束了，所剩的都是比較小額的部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:23.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:23.858000+08:00","text":"該斷然處理就要斷然處理！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:23.858000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:24.858000+08:00","text":"一定會處理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:23.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:24.238000+08:00","text":"該止血就要止血！對。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:24.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:24.939000+08:00","text":"不要讓人家覺得財政部毫無作為！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:24.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:25.819000+08:00","text":"要有一點擔當、有一點魄力好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:32.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:33.966000+08:00","text":"不會的，我們一定會好好地檢討、改善。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:34.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:38.648000+08:00","text":"你說到年底，所以你的意思是要讓它一直拖、拖、拖，拖到年底才停止嗎？","quality":0.679},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:39.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:40.128000+08:00","text":"這個個案已經……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:40.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:41.889000+08:00","text":"是不是由臺北國稅局來說明？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:41.889000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:42.889000+08:00","text":"什麼個案！","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:41.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:42.889000+08:00","text":"這是機制，這哪是個案！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:43.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:46.171000+08:00","text":"這整個機制當然要做檢討，我們會全面檢討。對啊！","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:46.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:03:52.596000+08:00","text":"所以明年的部分如果沒有重新調整機制的話，這個活動就停止，對不對？對。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:03:52.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:14.159000+08:00","text":"第二個要問你的是，我最近有看到一些訊息，兆豐銀行的董董事長對非實名制登錄之社群平台的行銷廣告，連同網紅、直播主、版主都停止下廣告，這個部分連同其他的民營銀行都已經加入了，我覺得這是好事情，這會不會是財政部未來的政策？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:15.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:25.316000+08:00","text":"這個部分對於詐騙的情形確實是，而且我們兆豐起頭來做，然後各個金融機構都相繼加入，會讓它的效益更明顯。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:25.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:26.197000+08:00","text":"兆豐都已經做了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:26.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:37.266000+08:00","text":"公股銀行從N年前就籌組一個所謂的ESG大聯盟，結果到現在是兆豐來推這個社會責任的典範，財政部的做法到底在哪裡？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:37.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:37.667000+08:00","text":"你有沒有要加碼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:40.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:43.815000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們可以再做思考、可以再做檢討。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:43.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:44.456000+08:00","text":"什麼檢討？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:44.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:45.077000+08:00","text":"要加碼！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:45.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:45.757000+08:00","text":"還有什麼好檢討的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:45.757000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:47.018000+08:00","text":"是，要加碼。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:47.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:48.239000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:48.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:48.940000+08:00","text":"這還有什麼好檢討的！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:48.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:51.182000+08:00","text":"對的事情就要加碼，還要檢討什麼！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:51.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:04:55.586000+08:00","text":"另外一個部分是，對於有些地方做得好的，你要形成財政部的政策啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:04:56.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:05:03.548000+08:00","text":"我看到合庫銀行把5個分行給整併掉了，他們把5個分行整併掉之後，你知道嗎？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:05:03.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:05:14.691000+08:00","text":"你自己有沒有去算過，臺灣整個銀行的分支機構，包括本土銀行、外商銀行、信用合作社、郵政儲匯，還有農漁會信用部和票券金融公司，一共高達5,890家。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:05:17.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:05:24.975000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，這比「全家」便利商店還多，全家3,932家；比7-ELEVEN還少，7-ELEVEN有6,957家。","quality":0.472},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:05:25.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:05:31.161000+08:00","text":"問題是現在網銀盛行，實體銀行的需求度沒有那麼高啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:05:32.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:05:34.044000+08:00","text":"財政部對這個部分的態度又是如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:05:34.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:05:35.666000+08:00","text":"我覺得這都是底下的人在做啊！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:05:36.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:05:37.828000+08:00","text":"他們做了對的事情，那你有沒有予以肯定？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:05:38.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:05:39.230000+08:00","text":"有沒有可能加碼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:05:39.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:05:41.652000+08:00","text":"有沒有可能拉高這個決策位階？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:05:41.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:05:41.932000+08:00","text":"有沒有可能？部長。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:05:44.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:05:54.607000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員這樣的建議，確實是，對於正確的方向，財政部本來就應該要再做更加大的推廣，以及做一個其他分支機構都要……是啊！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:05:54.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:05:57.349000+08:00","text":"底下的公股銀行做對的事情，你應該拉抬它的位階，形成一個政策嘛！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:05:57.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:00.611000+08:00","text":"不用個別銀行去處理，而是採用一個通案的方式來做處理。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:01.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:04.113000+08:00","text":"臺南有一家林百貨公司，你去看那邊不到200公尺就有5家銀行。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:04.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:06.174000+08:00","text":"不到200公尺有5家銀行！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:09.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:10.397000+08:00","text":"你去google一下就知道。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:12.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:15.120000+08:00","text":"在這種情況底下，就代表分支機構非常多。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:15.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:18.222000+08:00","text":"以前分支機構之所以會留著是有它的道理，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:18.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:27.988000+08:00","text":"因為以前在做銀行合併的時候，一家分行的行情是1億，大家都捨不得關，現在還有這種行情嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:27.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:31.209000+08:00","text":"所以在這種情況底下，你應該去思考這個問題。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:31.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:42.054000+08:00","text":"還有合併的部分，今天報紙有提到公公併不可行，民民併比較有可能，但是到底要怎麼併，是不是可以透過子公司、底下的機構去併？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:42.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:43.595000+08:00","text":"這也是一個考慮的方式嘛！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:44.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:46.696000+08:00","text":"這是互補，不一定是併。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:46.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:47.276000+08:00","text":"什麼方式？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:48.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:49.417000+08:00","text":"財政部要有一個態度出來嘛！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:50.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:53.320000+08:00","text":"部長，好不好？是。「是」？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:53.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:06:54.881000+08:00","text":"什麼時候要給本席答復？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:06:55.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:07:06.848000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我想您剛剛提到第一個就是布點的部分，也就是實體銀行分支機構布點的部分，看對它的效益有沒有必要性，應該要做一個全面性的盤整。對！","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:07:08.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:07:26.019000+08:00","text":"您提到有關公公併或是下面的子公司、銀行以外的相關子公司要不要做合併，我想這個部分還是要看它有沒有綜效，要發揮這樣的效果，以及工會的立場，這個都要去……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:07:26.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:07:29.661000+08:00","text":"大部分的人去銀行不就是存錢跟領錢嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:07:30.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:07:41.565000+08:00","text":"我剛剛給你算了全家加上7-ELEVEN就超過1萬家了，再加上現在所有相關金融機構的分行將近6,000家，有需要那麼多家嗎？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:07:41.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:07:42.106000+08:00","text":"這想也知道！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:07:43.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:07:44.748000+08:00","text":"怎麼弄會比較好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:07:45.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:07:46.310000+08:00","text":"不要影響到員工的權益……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:07:46.310000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:07:47.832000+08:00","text":"是，這個要兼顧，對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:07:47.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:07:51.737000+08:00","text":"這個部分你要去考慮，以它為前提，然後提高它的效率嘛！","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:07:51.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:07:52.678000+08:00","text":"不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:07:52.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:07:57.404000+08:00","text":"是，我想股東、員工和客戶的權益，還有國家整體利益都是要做考量的。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:07:57.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:03.549000+08:00","text":"對，ESG的部分請你加碼，第二個部分是分行要調整的時候，你要去思考把它政策化。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:03.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:11.195000+08:00","text":"另外一個需要政策化去面對的問題是，剛剛也有委員提到，你去看中國啤酒主打「台南牛肉湯」等地方特產耶！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:11.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:13.437000+08:00","text":"我不曉得你有沒有喝過啦！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:13.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:15.998000+08:00","text":"還有，美國品牌的產地都是中國耶！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:15.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:20.502000+08:00","text":"然後都說是世界知名品牌，還寫說是「台灣原創品牌」。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:21.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:25.145000+08:00","text":"拜託一下，根據酒類標示管理辦法第十三條的規定就不能這樣做啊！","quality":0.536},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:25.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:29.126000+08:00","text":"我們那天開公聽會之後，副署長有沒有回去跟你報告這個問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:31.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:32.924000+08:00","text":"我看你還在狀況外！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:33.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:35.466000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有關您那天開的相關記者會……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:35.466000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:36.466000+08:00","text":"還在狀況外！","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:36.466000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:37.466000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們同仁回去都有做說明……","quality":0.267},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:35.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:37.046000+08:00","text":"我再跟你講，中國從2013年開始大力補貼他們的啤酒，為什麼？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:37.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:38.167000+08:00","text":"因為中國的內需市場持續萎縮，而且萎縮得非常嚴重，這是第一點。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:38.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:39.668000+08:00","text":"第二是產品又過剩，結果鄰近國家就遭殃嘛！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:08:59.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:08:59.678000+08:00","text":"臺灣就是啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:09:01.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:09:04.402000+08:00","text":"他們用傾銷的方式在解決產量過剩、內需不足的問題啊！","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:09:05.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:09:06.943000+08:00","text":"啤酒就是一個最典型的例子嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:09:07.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:09:17.850000+08:00","text":"你去看，2013年開始，他們至少有六大計畫，最著名的就是中國啤酒的「十三五」、「十四五」的大規模補助，而且現在還在補助，要補助到2025年喔！","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:09:19.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:09:23.394000+08:00","text":"目標就是要提高啤酒的產量、銷售收入跟利潤。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:09:23.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:09:45.126000+08:00","text":"還有，在這樣的數十億補助的情況底下，中國啤酒的市占率暴增四成，從2021年開始，每年都有17至24億的補貼，一罐啤酒跟臺灣的價差高達3.65元至6.21元之間，傾銷率高達76.9%。","quality":0.746},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:09:45.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:02.552000+08:00","text":"過往我們有對中國課反傾銷稅，不論是平版印刷、特定鋁業或毛巾，中國也對我們課過反傾銷稅。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:04.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:16.095000+08:00","text":"部長，面對這問題時，你有沒有可能將它視為傾銷，提出反傾銷的反制可能性？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:17.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:27.384000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，中國政府對啤酒的補貼會不會構成傾銷，目前關務署正在處理中，這部分要……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:27.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:28.304000+08:00","text":"處理的態度是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:28.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:28.864000+08:00","text":"基本的立場是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:28.864000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:29.864000+08:00","text":"能不能講一下？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:28.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:29.864000+08:00","text":"就基本立場而言，我們會由關稅審議小組會議來處理，因為有一定的流程，而且要做相關調查，看對國內產業……","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:30.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:30.865000+08:00","text":"所以是朝向有傾銷的可能來調查？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:30.865000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:31.865000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:30.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:31.225000+08:00","text":"這部分要由小組委員來討論。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:44.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:45.989000+08:00","text":"調查是不是有傾銷的可能？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:46.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:48.330000+08:00","text":"調查傾銷以及對國內產業造成的傷害……衝擊……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:48.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:48.870000+08:00","text":"都要朝這個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:50.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:53.873000+08:00","text":"這已經很多年了，部長，你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:53.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:55.213000+08:00","text":"他們的市占率從2015年的8%，現在已經暴增到34%！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:55.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:57.955000+08:00","text":"在進口啤酒當中，10罐當中有6罐是中國啤酒，你到現在才有感覺？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:10:58.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:10:59.296000+08:00","text":"多久可以調查出來，我問一下？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:11:10.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:11:11.802000+08:00","text":"有一定的程序及作業……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:11:12.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:11:18.645000+08:00","text":"雖然有一定程序，但可以加快，不是嗎？署長。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-13T10:11:18.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:11:34.674000+08:00","text":"報告委員，產業主管機關就是，產業工會，還有業者會跟我們海關提出反傾銷的申請案件，再由財政部來審查有沒有傾銷的事實，再由經濟部審查有沒有經濟的……","quality":0.754},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:11:34.674000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:11:37.596000+08:00","text":"最快會多久認定？","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:11:37.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:11:40.579000+08:00","text":"署長，這已經有案例可循，而且我們有課過他們反傾銷稅啊！","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:11:41.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:11:41.920000+08:00","text":"最快多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-13T10:11:42.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:11:50.027000+08:00","text":"報告委員，最快……成立反傾銷稅，照我們以前處理這類案件的經過來說，可能要8個月到1年以上。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:11:50.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:11:52.489000+08:00","text":"你們儘量以8個月為目標，好不好？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-13T10:11:53.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:11:54.350000+08:00","text":"這有一定的規定的期程……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:11:55.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:11:58.617000+08:00","text":"就是8個月到一年，本席就要求你用最快的速度，8個月，好不好？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-13T10:11:59.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:11:59.618000+08:00","text":"當然，就是他……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:11:59.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:02.903000+08:00","text":"這個事情已經發生快十年之久了，好不好？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:03.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:06.568000+08:00","text":"主要是他要申請進來，我們才有辦法去審。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:06.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:07.129000+08:00","text":"只要他申請……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:07.129000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:08.129000+08:00","text":"對，他們申請……","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:07.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:07.289000+08:00","text":"我們一定會加快腳步。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:07.289000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:10.873000+08:00","text":"你們要加快，可以吧？是。儘量。","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:10.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:13.874000+08:00","text":"請看另外一個部分，署長，你慢點走，我跟你講一下。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:15.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:31.079000+08:00","text":"我們銷去中國的台啤被限制得很嚴重，銷到中國的只有9.5萬美元，但中國進來我們這邊的則高達1,397萬美元，兩邊的貿易逆差高達1,200倍！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:33.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:38.141000+08:00","text":"我們有沒有其他反制的方式，讓我們的台啤可以順利進入中國市場？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:38.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:38.481000+08:00","text":"有沒有可能？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:41.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:44.277000+08:00","text":"目前還是暫停進口。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:45.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:46.618000+08:00","text":"目前中國大陸對我們……對啊！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:48.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:12:55.883000+08:00","text":"他們可以一直進來，源源不斷，十罐啤酒裡有六罐是中國啤酒，而我們去卻不行，這是相當不公平的貿易！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:12:58.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:01.813000+08:00","text":"部長，要有斷然的作為，好不好？是。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:02.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:09.300000+08:00","text":"不要只說你會、你知道，這個沒有用，要有效才有用啦。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:10.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:16.988000+08:00","text":"我最後問一下關務署，入境帶酒什麼時候能放寬成兩瓶？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:18.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:32.142000+08:00","text":"我舉一個關鍵點，你們也知道稅損非常有限，既然稅損很有限的話，對產業的衝擊就相對有限，為什麼這個問題你們對外放出風聲之後，只聞樓梯響，沒有看見人下來？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:34.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:40.705000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們現在正在彙整各產業主管機關的意見，工會……","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:40.705000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:41.705000+08:00","text":"你們彙整好幾個月了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:41.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:42.306000+08:00","text":"當然有一些可能……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:42.306000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:43.306000+08:00","text":"暑假都過了，寒假快來了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:42.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:43.306000+08:00","text":"我們大概一個月之後就會報到部裡面去。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:43.306000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:50.846000+08:00","text":"一個月？是。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:50.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:51.386000+08:00","text":"一個月報部？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:52.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:53.367000+08:00","text":"部長，你覺得有沒有合理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:54.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:13:56.148000+08:00","text":"自用送禮兩相宜，合不合理？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:13:58.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:14:01.770000+08:00","text":"自己自用一瓶，送你一瓶，這樣自用送禮兩相宜，這樣合不合理？","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-13T10:14:04.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:14:08.793000+08:00","text":"就關務署所提報出來的，我們會做整體評估。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:14:08.793000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:14:09.793000+08:00","text":"是不是做評估？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2024-11-13T10:14:09.793000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:14:10.793000+08:00","text":"整體評估，是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2024-11-13T10:14:09.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:14:09.933000+08:00","text":"儘速給外界答案，謝謝。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T10:14:09.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:14:10.033000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-13T10:14:10.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:14:10.073000+08:00","text":"謝謝國文委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-13T10:14:10.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:14:10.413000+08:00","text":"接著請賴士葆委員發言。","quality":0.5}]},"gazette":{"lineno":594,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（10時2分）主席，有請財政部部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：部長，我們來談一下雲端發票吧！雲端發票出事的時候，你們有做了檢討，但是檢討之後卻改成匿名，這就改成黑箱，好像不願意面對問題，又變成鴕鳥！我覺得這樣不對吧！可以這樣處理事情嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個，我們應該要用誠信而且公開、公正的方式……"],["郭委員國文：是啊！怎麼可以這樣又變成匿名、私下通知，這樣不敢面對問題呢？在這個問題還沒解決之前，部長，類似這種抽獎活動是不是應該先暫停啊？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分確實要檢討，我們也會做全面的……"],["郭委員國文：檢討最好的方式就是先暫停啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：一定要檢討和改善。"],["郭委員國文：對啊！你們還沒有重新提出改善方案之前，舊的方式就應該先暫停才對啊！沒有一個斷然處理的方式！"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，目前因為已經接近年底，相關的活動大概都已經結束了，所剩的都是比較小額的部分……"],["郭委員國文：該斷然處理就要斷然處理！"],["莊部長翠雲：一定會處理。"],["郭委員國文：該止血就要止血！"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["郭委員國文：不要讓人家覺得財政部毫無作為！要有一點擔當、有一點魄力好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：不會的，我們一定會好好地檢討、改善。"],["郭委員國文：你說到年底，所以你的意思是要讓它一直拖、拖、拖，拖到年底才停止嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個個案已經……","是不是由臺北國稅局來說明？"],["郭委員國文：什麼個案！這是機制，這哪是個案！"],["莊部長翠雲：這整個機制當然要做檢討，我們會全面檢討。"],["郭委員國文：對啊！所以明年的部分如果沒有重新調整機制的話，這個活動就停止，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["郭委員國文：好。第二個要問你的是，我最近有看到一些訊息，兆豐銀行的董董事長對非實名制登錄之社群平台的行銷廣告，連同網紅、直播主、版主都停止下廣告，這個部分連同其他的民營銀行都已經加入了，我覺得這是好事情，這會不會是財政部未來的政策？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分對於詐騙的情形確實是，而且我們兆豐起頭來做，然後各個金融機構都相繼加入，會讓它的效益更明顯。"],["郭委員國文：兆豐都已經做了！公股銀行從N年前就籌組一個所謂的ESG大聯盟，結果到現在是兆豐來推這個社會責任的典範，財政部的做法到底在哪裡？你有沒有要加碼？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分我們可以再做思考、可以再做檢討。"],["郭委員國文：什麼檢討？要加碼！還有什麼好檢討的？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，要加碼。"],["郭委員國文：對不對？這還有什麼好檢討的！對的事情就要加碼，還要檢討什麼！","另外一個部分是，對於有些地方做得好的，你要形成財政部的政策啊！我看到合庫銀行把5個分行給整併掉了，他們把5個分行整併掉之後，你知道嗎？你自己有沒有去算過，臺灣整個銀行的分支機構，包括本土銀行、外商銀行、信用合作社、郵政儲匯，還有農漁會信用部和票券金融公司，一共高達5,890家。我跟你講，這比「全家」便利商店還多，全家3,932家；比7-ELEVEN還少，7-ELEVEN有6,957家。問題是現在網銀盛行，實體銀行的需求度沒有那麼高啊！財政部對這個部分的態度又是如何？我覺得這都是底下的人在做啊！他們做了對的事情，那你有沒有予以肯定？有沒有可能加碼？有沒有可能拉高這個決策位階？有沒有可能？部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員這樣的建議，確實是，對於正確的方向，財政部本來就應該要再做更加大的推廣，以及做一個其他分支機構都要……"],["郭委員國文：是啊！底下的公股銀行做對的事情，你應該拉抬它的位階，形成一個政策嘛！不用個別銀行去處理，而是採用一個通案的方式來做處理。臺南有一家林百貨公司，你去看那邊不到200公尺就有5家銀行。不到200公尺有5家銀行！你去google一下就知道。在這種情況底下，就代表分支機構非常多。以前分支機構之所以會留著是有它的道理，為什麼？因為以前在做銀行合併的時候，一家分行的行情是1億，大家都捨不得關，現在還有這種行情嗎？所以在這種情況底下，你應該去思考這個問題。","還有合併的部分，今天報紙有提到公公併不可行，民民併比較有可能，但是到底要怎麼併，是不是可以透過子公司、底下的機構去併？這也是一個考慮的方式嘛！這是互補，不一定是併。什麼方式？財政部要有一個態度出來嘛！部長，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：「是」？什麼時候要給本席答復？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我想您剛剛提到第一個就是布點的部分，也就是實體銀行分支機構布點的部分，看對它的效益有沒有必要性，應該要做一個全面性的盤整。"],["郭委員國文：對！"],["莊部長翠雲：您提到有關公公併或是下面的子公司、銀行以外的相關子公司要不要做合併，我想這個部分還是要看它有沒有綜效，要發揮這樣的效果，以及工會的立場，這個都要去……"],["郭委員國文：大部分的人去銀行不就是存錢跟領錢嗎？我剛剛給你算了全家加上7-ELEVEN就超過1萬家了，再加上現在所有相關金融機構的分行將近6,000家，有需要那麼多家嗎？這想也知道！怎麼弄會比較好？不要影響到員工的權益……"],["莊部長翠雲：是，這個要兼顧，對。"],["郭委員國文：這個部分你要去考慮，以它為前提，然後提高它的效率嘛！不是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我想股東、員工和客戶的權益，還有國家整體利益都是要做考量的。"],["郭委員國文：對，ESG的部分請你加碼，第二個部分是分行要調整的時候，你要去思考把它政策化。","另外一個需要政策化去面對的問題是，剛剛也有委員提到，你去看中國啤酒主打「台南牛肉湯」等地方特產耶！我不曉得你有沒有喝過啦！還有，美國品牌的產地都是中國耶！然後都說是世界知名品牌，還寫說是「台灣原創品牌」。拜託一下，根據酒類標示管理辦法第十三條的規定就不能這樣做啊！我們那天開公聽會之後，副署長有沒有回去跟你報告這個問題？我看你還在狀況外！"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，有關您那天開的相關記者會……"],["郭委員國文：還在狀況外！"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分我們同仁回去都有做說明……"],["郭委員國文：我再跟你講，中國從2013年開始大力補貼他們的啤酒，為什麼？因為中國的內需市場持續萎縮，而且萎縮得非常嚴重，這是第一點。第二是產品又過剩，結果鄰近國家就遭殃嘛！臺灣就是啊！他們用傾銷的方式在解決產量過剩、內需不足的問題啊！啤酒就是一個最典型的例子嘛！你去看，2013年開始，他們至少有六大計畫，最著名的就是中國啤酒的「十三五」、「十四五」的大規模補助，而且現在還在補助，要補助到2025年喔！目標就是要提高啤酒的產量、銷售收入跟利潤。還有，在這樣的數十億補助的情況底下，中國啤酒的市占率暴增四成，從2021年開始，每年都有17至24億的補貼，一罐啤酒跟臺灣的價差高達3.65元至6.21元之間，傾銷率高達76.9%。過往我們有對中國課反傾銷稅，不論是平版印刷、特定鋁業或毛巾，中國也對我們課過反傾銷稅。部長，面對這問題時，你有沒有可能將它視為傾銷，提出反傾銷的反制可能性？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，中國政府對啤酒的補貼會不會構成傾銷，目前關務署正在處理中，這部分要……"],["郭委員國文：處理的態度是什麼？基本的立場是什麼？能不能講一下？"],["莊部長翠雲：就基本立場而言，我們會由關稅審議小組會議來處理，因為有一定的流程，而且要做相關調查，看對國內產業……"],["郭委員國文：所以是朝向有傾銷的可能來調查？是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：這部分要由小組委員來討論。"],["郭委員國文：調查是不是有傾銷的可能？"],["莊部長翠雲：調查傾銷以及對國內產業造成的傷害……"],["郭委員國文：衝擊……"],["莊部長翠雲：都要朝這個……"],["郭委員國文：這已經很多年了，部長，你知道嗎？他們的市占率從2015年的8%，現在已經暴增到34%！在進口啤酒當中，10罐當中有6罐是中國啤酒，你到現在才有感覺？多久可以調查出來，我問一下？"],["莊部長翠雲：有一定的程序及作業……"],["郭委員國文：雖然有一定程序，但可以加快，不是嗎？署長。"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，產業主管機關就是，產業工會，還有業者會跟我們海關提出反傾銷的申請案件，再由財政部來審查有沒有傾銷的事實，再由經濟部審查有沒有經濟的……"],["郭委員國文：最快會多久認定？署長，這已經有案例可循，而且我們有課過他們反傾銷稅啊！最快多久？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，最快……成立反傾銷稅，照我們以前處理這類案件的經過來說，可能要8個月到1年以上。"],["郭委員國文：你們儘量以8個月為目標，好不好？"],["彭署長英偉：這有一定的規定的期程……"],["郭委員國文：就是8個月到一年，本席就要求你用最快的速度，8個月，好不好？"],["彭署長英偉：當然，就是他……"],["郭委員國文：這個事情已經發生快十年之久了，好不好？"],["彭署長英偉：主要是他要申請進來，我們才有辦法去審。只要他申請……"],["郭委員國文：對，他們申請……"],["彭署長英偉：我們一定會加快腳步。"],["郭委員國文：你們要加快，可以吧？"],["彭署長英偉：是。"],["郭委員國文：儘量。請看另外一個部分，署長，你慢點走，我跟你講一下。我們銷去中國的台啤被限制得很嚴重，銷到中國的只有9.5萬美元，但中國進來我們這邊的則高達1,397萬美元，兩邊的貿易逆差高達1,200倍！我們有沒有其他反制的方式，讓我們的台啤可以順利進入中國市場？有沒有可能？"],["莊部長翠雲：目前還是暫停進口。目前中國大陸對我們……"],["郭委員國文：對啊！他們可以一直進來，源源不斷，十罐啤酒裡有六罐是中國啤酒，而我們去卻不行，這是相當不公平的貿易！部長，要有斷然的作為，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：不要只說你會、你知道，這個沒有用，要有效才有用啦。","我最後問一下關務署，入境帶酒什麼時候能放寬成兩瓶？我舉一個關鍵點，你們也知道稅損非常有限，既然稅損很有限的話，對產業的衝擊就相對有限，為什麼這個問題你們對外放出風聲之後，只聞樓梯響，沒有看見人下來？"],["彭署長英偉：跟委員報告，我們現在正在彙整各產業主管機關的意見，工會……"],["郭委員國文：你們彙整好幾個月了。"],["彭署長英偉：當然有一些可能……"],["郭委員國文：暑假都過了，寒假快來了。"],["彭署長英偉：我們大概一個月之後就會報到部裡面去。"],["郭委員國文：一個月？"],["彭署長英偉：是。"],["郭委員國文：一個月報部？部長，你覺得有沒有合理？自用送禮兩相宜，合不合理？自己自用一瓶，送你一瓶，這樣自用送禮兩相宜，這樣合不合理？"],["彭署長英偉：就關務署所提報出來的，我們會做整體評估。"],["郭委員國文：是不是做評估？"],["彭署長英偉：整體評估，是。"],["郭委員國文：儘速給外界答案，謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝國文委員。接著請賴士葆委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}