{"error":false,"id":["156739"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":156739,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156739","日期":"2024-11-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-35-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-11-13T10:15:49+08:00","結束時間":"2024-11-13T10:22:01+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:12","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678caf95a596e6684da5158c0789247a306d434f0d3d07bbac119161ef466b908c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳永康","委員發言時間":"10:15:49 - 10:22:01","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)。（僅詢答）\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：（僅詢答）\n      （一）作業基金：\n                   1、國軍生產及服務作業基金。\n                   2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金。\n                   3、國防醫學院軍事教育基金。\n     （二）資本計畫基金－國軍營舍及設施改建基金。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":0.03096875,"end":1.80284375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"李院長世強","start":2.03909375,"end":2.76471875,"speaker_score":0.875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":9.869093750000001,"end":11.05034375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":10.594718750000002,"end":14.138468750000001,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":14.796593750000003,"end":17.54721875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":18.20534375,"end":18.79596875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":19.89284375,"end":20.85471875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":21.816593750000003,"end":30.203468750000003,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":30.49034375,"end":32.59971875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":32.98784375,"end":34.979093750000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":35.805968750000005,"end":38.28659375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":38.59034375,"end":42.37034375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":42.72471875,"end":44.29409375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":44.71596875,"end":45.64409375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":46.352843750000005,"end":53.085968750000006,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":53.71034375,"end":58.31721875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":58.65471875,"end":61.47284375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":61.742843750000006,"end":63.447218750000005,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":63.93659375000001,"end":65.13471875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":65.47221875000001,"end":66.73784375000001,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":66.94034375000001,"end":68.59409375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":69.87659375,"end":70.68659375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":71.59784375000001,"end":80.01846875000001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":80.37284375,"end":104.70659375000001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":104.99346875,"end":111.37221875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":111.55784375,"end":124.70346875000001,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":125.04096875,"end":137.68034375000002,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":138.08534375000002,"end":142.55721875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":142.87784375,"end":144.02534375000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":144.51471875000001,"end":149.62784375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":149.88096875000002,"end":164.54534375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":165.20346875,"end":167.36346875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":167.81909375,"end":171.80159375000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":171.95346875,"end":180.20534375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":180.86346875,"end":191.05596875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":191.44409375,"end":195.30846875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":195.71346875,"end":211.66034375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":212.06534375,"end":223.23659375000003,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":224.04659375000003,"end":241.63034375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":241.93409375000002,"end":245.30909375000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":246.05159375000002,"end":248.48159375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":248.83596875,"end":263.07846875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":263.38221875,"end":274.31721875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":274.60409375,"end"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in the loop on the loop這個時候再回頭請示是來不及的那麼他的能量管制能量非常大處理目標非常大這個是因為他這兩天在珠海仔已經出來了是不是這個參考的我們請院長做一個回應因為這個值得我們做借鏡甚至要挑戰超越"},{"start":292.679,"end":314.872,"text":"我很簡短地跟委員回應這裏面包含兩個挑戰第一個就是不同網路中間怎麼去安全地去傳遞資訊流那這個部分我們已經克服了我們會引進後量子加密的技術來去做最有效的資訊流的傳遞所以跨網界階的部分不會有問題第二個部分就是ROE輸入的問題因為ROE會牽涉到智慧決策的COA"},{"start":316.673,"end":339.279,"text":"你ROE輸入的不正確你出來的行動方案就不會是這最明確最正確的行動方案那有關ROE輸入部分這個部分我們還要對我們部隊在做再教育那我們也希望能夠引進類似相關的經驗能夠讓部隊去授課接受這樣的訓練輸入最精準的ROE我們才能去做最正確的智慧決策"},{"start":341.5,"end":370.599,"text":"最後提醒一個就是這種先進武器運用導入的概念我們希望在國防大學的課程要及早納入以上謝謝對我們現在也跟廣東大學正在就來進行研討讓他們這些教官們都能夠吸取最新的這個我們的不管是戰術戰網還有這些相關的這些應該有的這個觀念來教導這些子參學員或戰員的這些人謝謝各位大家共同努力"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:15:49.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:15:51.271000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-13T10:15:51.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:15:59.157000+08:00","text":"來，部長請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-11-13T10:15:59.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:15:59.757000+08:00","text":"是，陳委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:15:59.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:15:59.877000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:16:00.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:16:35.700000+08:00","text":"今天聽取了這個重大的建軍計畫跟強化韌性的報告，在第二頁的施政重點中談到了三個重大的軍售，正好是三個軍種各占一個，其中第一個就是遠程精準火力打擊的系統M142海馬斯，第二個是海軍魚叉飛彈防衛系統，它是岸基的CDCM、RGM-84L-4，以及空軍的高空無人機。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:16:35.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:16:46.971000+08:00","text":"這三個重大軍售案在交貨以後完成戰備，但是是分屬三個軍種，請教部長，在整體運用構想上如何納入C4ISR？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:16:47.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:16:57.542000+08:00","text":"有關於目獲、目標分配、目標的損害判別這個整合系統，我們國軍能不能在國內的發展配合裝備的獲得？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-11-13T10:17:01.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:17:29.815000+08:00","text":"我們現在指管的這個系統正在進行研議當中，我想委員也一直在關切我們陸軍用的是UTM，海空軍用的是WGS84，就這兩個部分如何進行一個有效的整合，現在也正在進行討論當中，我想應該是可以來進行相關的整合，然後來介接。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:17:30.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:17:37.861000+08:00","text":"我們希望的就是在裝備獲得以後，它發揮戰力的時間不要因為國內指管系統比較慢而延宕了，讓它的系統無法整合發揮，這個是我們要提出的一個重點。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-11-13T10:17:54.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:18:05.983000+08:00","text":"其實我們在昨天之前就已經在做這樣的準備了，我想應該是可以整合，沒有問題。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:18:09.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:18:57.760000+08:00","text":"很好，在這個月的12號到17號，剛好在珠海航展就是中國大陸的航空航天博覽會，除了有邀請各國，也請俄羅斯展出它的先進武器裝備、飛機、海上載具，它這次推出了一個實際上是反無人機的系統，這個系統等於把共同圖像COP、CTP以及火協，包括整個無人機的反制系統，全部納入了，我建議我們的情蒐、情研人員在公情部分或是由其他管道去了解這套整合系統，它的能量非常強大，這個對我們中科院來講，不管是借鏡或者是挑戰，這是值得參考的。","quality":0.614},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:18:58.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:19:16.770000+08:00","text":"下一頁是我特別做出來的，現在我們民間廠商做出的無人機交給軍中，尤其是陸軍基層單位的同仁在用，他對這個飛機的操作性能以及回傳的訊息、影像有沒有辦法整合？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:19:18.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:19:33.773000+08:00","text":"因為它的開發單位是中國航天，對我們來講，相對的就是國家中山科學研究院，其角色跟它是相同的，所以現在看了這個系統裡面的圖像，我們特別講它的目的適合城鎮作戰、任務伴隨、要域防禦、多種無人機反制，它都要能夠做，現在我們不管是用雷射、火砲或是其他電子干擾，它是單向在機場附近，我們希望未來中科院在這上面做一個整合。","quality":0.453},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:19:36.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:20:05.918000+08:00","text":"它現在的特點是整合防空飛彈、火砲、微型和輕型的飛彈、雷射武器，軟殺、硬殺同步整合，對於目標這個源頭、訊號源不同，它要做驗證。","quality":0.623},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:20:06.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:20:26.014000+08:00","text":"我之前有跟院長提到，我們要把ROE納入這個系統，因為這裡面就是戰務令，就是授權長官的責任承擔，以及下屬的任務受領，那個時候如果沒有man in the loop，要再回頭請示是來不及的。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:20:26.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:20:35.340000+08:00","text":"那麼它的管制能量非常大，處理目標非常大，因為它這兩天在珠海展已經出來了，是不是可以參考？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:20:35.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:20:41.083000+08:00","text":"我們請院長做一個回應，因為這值得我們做借鏡，甚至要挑戰、超越。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李院長世強","start":"2024-11-13T10:20:41.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:20:59.409000+08:00","text":"我很簡短的跟委員回應，這裡面包含兩個挑戰，第一個就是不同網路中間怎麼去安全的傳遞資訊流，這個部分我們已經克服了，我們會引進後量子加密的技術去做最有效的資訊流的傳遞，所以跨網介接的部分不會有問題。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"李院長世強","start":"2024-11-13T10:20:59.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:21:28.259000+08:00","text":"第二個部分就是ROE輸入的問題，因為ROE會牽涉到智慧決策的COA（Course of Action），如果ROE輸入不正確，出來的行動方案就不會是最明確、最正確的行動方案，有關ROE輸入的這個部分，我們還要對我們部隊再教育，我們也希望能夠引進類似的相關經驗，讓部隊去授課，在接受這樣的訓練後輸入最精準的ROE，我們才能去做最正確的智慧決策。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:21:30.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:21:40.046000+08:00","text":"我最後提醒一點，就是這種先進武器運用導入的概念，我們希望在國防大學的課程要及早納入，以上，謝謝。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-11-13T10:21:40.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:21:57.177000+08:00","text":"對，我們現在也正在跟國防大學進行研討，讓這些教官們都能夠吸取最新的，不管是戰術、戰法，還有這些應該有的相關觀念，來教導指參學院或戰院的這些人。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2024-11-13T10:21:58.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T10:21:59.579000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝各位，大家共同努力。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-13T10:22:00.079000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:22:04.079000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝陳永康委員，你的腿也保重。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-13T10:22:04.379000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T10:22:08.950429+08:00","text":"好，接下來進行詢答的委員是黃仁委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":270,"blocks":[["陳委員永康：（10時15分）謝謝主席，有請顧部長。"],["主席：來，部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：是，陳委員。"],["陳委員永康：部長好。今天聽取了這個重大的建軍計畫跟強化韌性的報告，在第二頁的施政重點中談到了三個重大的軍售，正好是三個軍種各占一個，其中第一個就是遠程精準火力打擊的系統M142海馬斯，第二個是海軍魚叉飛彈防衛系統，它是岸基的CDCM、RGM-84L-4，以及空軍的高空無人機。這三個重大軍售案在交貨以後完成戰備，但是是分屬三個軍種，請教部長，在整體運用構想上如何納入C4ISR？有關於目獲、目標分配、目標的損害判別這個整合系統，我們國軍能不能在國內的發展配合裝備的獲得？"],["顧部長立雄：我們現在指管的這個系統正在進行研議當中，我想委員也一直在關切我們陸軍用的是UTM，海空軍用的是WGS84，就這兩個部分如何進行一個有效的整合，現在也正在進行討論當中，我想應該是可以來進行相關的整合，然後來介接。"],["陳委員永康：我們希望的就是在裝備獲得以後，它發揮戰力的時間不要因為國內指管系統比較慢而延宕了，讓它的系統無法整合發揮，這個是我們要提出的一個重點。"],["顧部長立雄：其實我們在昨天之前就已經在做這樣的準備了，我想應該是可以整合，沒有問題。"],["陳委員永康：很好，在這個月的12號到17號，剛好在珠海航展就是中國大陸的航空航天博覽會，除了有邀請各國，也請俄羅斯展出它的先進武器裝備、飛機、海上載具，它這次推出了一個實際上是反無人機的系統，這個系統等於把共同圖像COP、CTP以及火協，包括整個無人機的反制系統，全部納入了，我建議我們的情蒐、情研人員在公情部分或是由其他管道去了解這套整合系統，它的能量非常強大，這個對我們中科院來講，不管是借鏡或者是挑戰，這是值得參考的。下一頁是我特別做出來的，現在我們民間廠商做出的無人機交給軍中，尤其是陸軍基層單位的同仁在用，他對這個飛機的操作性能以及回傳的訊息、影像有沒有辦法整合？因為它的開發單位是中國航天，對我們來講，相對的就是國家中山科學研究院，其角色跟它是相同的，所以現在看了這個系統裡面的圖像，我們特別講它的目的適合城鎮作戰、任務伴隨、要域防禦、多種無人機反制，它都要能夠做，現在我們不管是用雷射、火砲或是其他電子干擾，它是單向在機場附近，我們希望未來中科院在這上面做一個整合。它現在的特點是整合防空飛彈、火砲、微型和輕型的飛彈、雷射武器，軟殺、硬殺同步整合，對於目標這個源頭、訊號源不同，它要做驗證。我之前有跟院長提到，我們要把ROE納入這個系統，因為這裡面就是戰務令，就是授權長官的責任承擔，以及下屬的任務受領，那個時候如果沒有man in the loop，要再回頭請示是來不及的。那麼它的管制能量非常大，處理目標非常大，因為它這兩天在珠海展已經出來了，是不是可以參考？我們請院長做一個回應，因為這值得我們做借鏡，甚至要挑戰、超越。"],["李院長世強：我很簡短的跟委員回應，這裡面包含兩個挑戰，第一個就是不同網路中間怎麼去安全的傳遞資訊流，這個部分我們已經克服了，我們會引進後量子加密的技術去做最有效的資訊流的傳遞，所以跨網介接的部分不會有問題。第二個部分就是ROE輸入的問題，因為ROE會牽涉到智慧決策的COA（Course of Action），如果ROE輸入不正確，出來的行動方案就不會是最明確、最正確的行動方案，有關ROE輸入的這個部分，我們還要對我們部隊再教育，我們也希望能夠引進類似的相關經驗，讓部隊去授課，在接受這樣的訓練後輸入最精準的ROE，我們才能去做最正確的智慧決策。"],["陳委員永康：我最後提醒一點，就是這種先進武器運用導入的概念，我們希望在國防大學的課程要及早納入，以上，謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：對，我們現在也正在跟國防大學進行研討，讓這些教官們都能夠吸取最新的，不管是戰術、戰法，還有這些應該有的相關觀念，來教導指參學院或戰院的這些人。"],["陳委員永康：好，謝謝各位，大家共同努力。"],["主席：好，謝謝陳永康委員，你的腿也保重。","好，接下來進行詢答的委員是黃仁委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-12","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","馬文君","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)\n（僅詢答）；二、審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：\n（僅詢答）(一)作業基金：1、國軍生產及服務作業基金、2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金、3、國防\n醫學院軍事教育基金；(二)資本計畫基金─國軍營舍及設施改建基金","agenda_id":"1139702_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}