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家很需要的所以請你趕快去看世界各國我就舉例布丹給你他們花了15年全部完成好不好你去了解順便資料給本席最後一個議題齁"},{"start":567.182,"end":570.363,"text":"我們現在物價指數從93.58漲到104.7成長41%本期要跟你討論的也就是我們的這個農民津貼的這個問題因為呢我老農津貼是10年前所定過八萬那現在因為"},{"start":587.688,"end":596.293,"text":"年這個這個物價指數提高也因為它幅度很大也因為極端氣候也因為年房現在這個房屋啊他這真值稅一直這麼這麼高啊地價稅也一直這麼高那你是10年前所訂的500萬很多人說我一樣這個房子"},{"start":608.26,"end":628.295,"text":"但是他因為政府你提高所以他超過了這個讓我沒有辦法領老農今天我個人認為如果是他沒有增加那這是不對的啊他沒有增加一樣的範疇那是政府你給我提高那應該是不是要來提高本學具體建議從500萬來建立到800萬真正的來照顧這些老農你的看法呢"},{"start":633.459,"end":648.265,"text":"我跟委員報告其實在上上個會期裡面針對老農津貼我們也提出了說明現在是根據4年的CPI去調整那這個要調整我們有設計的一個新的方法但是也要看其他的社福基金的一致性"},{"start":648.925,"end":650.686,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":673.123,"end":677.207,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":690.639,"end":713.894,"text":"應該在去年年底的時候我們已經⋯⋯你什麼時間點可以告訴我們你的提升要提升多少沒關係你告訴我們時間我們農業部有規劃了在去年年底已經有報到院裡面去了那院裡面因為考量到這個老農機器那現在怎麼辦你還沒答案那現在怎麼辦所以我們的版本要經過院裡面核定以後什麼時候要再送"},{"start":714.827,"end":729.856,"text":"我們如果說我們可以我會跟行政院請示就是說這個議題要聯同其他的八大社福基金一併來討論不是單一的因為他就是根據CPI就只有你的老農今天什麼時候可以再一次提到這個行政院"},{"start":730.576,"end":746.682,"text":"我們可以把我們在原來的版本先提供給委員參考就是說這個議題討論的時候絕對不是只有處理老農津貼他還必須請問你老農津貼你把你目前的方案給本席那你也要告訴我你什麼時間可以再送到行政院"},{"start":747.242,"end":770.621,"text":"我會想如果根據委員的要求我們可以再次提報給行政院對因為明知道嘛必須要調你已經58%了嘛上漲的程度是58%十年前到現在當然不服所用啦對不對而且條件基準不一沒有改變那你把人家取消這沒道理的好不好我們會報告行政院然後既然你說對你就要加油好不好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:02:37.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:02:38.615000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:02:39.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:02:40.896000+08:00","text":"首先邀請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-13T11:02:40.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:02:48.560000+08:00","text":"請陳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:02:48.560000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:02:49.560000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:02:48.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:02:48.880000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:02:49.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:03:05.169000+08:00","text":"部長，在114年度的預算裡頭，針對動保管理編列的是5.6億元左右，當然我們希望能夠好好落實、推廣，減少虐待動物的情況。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:03:07.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:03:11.874000+08:00","text":"據資料，每一年虐待動物──顯性的喔！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:03:12.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:03:22.741000+08:00","text":"隱性的還不知道，顯性的部分，通報大概有上千件，但是受到法院判決、動保處開罰的案件每年不到100件，換句話說，裁罰的比例大概只有7.8%，96%施虐者只要繳繳罰金就可以免除牢災，這樣的情況讓坊間認為好像虐打毒殺可以花錢了事。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:03:22.741000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:03:24.142000+08:00","text":"我覺得這樣的觀念如果持續在我們的社會面生根，會與當時設立的方向完全背道而馳。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:03:24.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:04:14.357000+08:00","text":"現在動保機關跟委託的協會也很無奈地說要有遺體、要有屍體，法院才會判案，目前是如此。","quality":0.676},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:04:15.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:04:28.806000+08:00","text":"所以本席要請教部長，如果為了定罪，得有無辜動物當祭品，那也是很負面的教育，這是絕對不對的！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:04:31.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:04:51.776000+08:00","text":"動保法第二十五條規定，必須動物嚴重殘缺或死亡才能夠判處，實務上等於最好是在虐待當時就要趕快錄影、拍照起來，但這樣要怎麼保護動物的安全？","quality":0.565},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:04:51.776000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:05:49.172000+08:00","text":"所以本席特別提出第二十五條的修正，以往條文規定是要致使動物肢體嚴重殘缺，或重要器官功能喪失，問題是目前有很多方式的虐待行為，本席認為，如果依現行法律的文字規定，根本就誠如剛剛所說的，只有零點幾個百分比可以判處而已，所以本席提案，如果使動物遭受傷害、故意傷害或是使動物遭受傷害致動物肢體或器官功能受損就成立。","quality":0.282},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:05:49.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:05:52.973000+08:00","text":"針對本席具體的文字建議，希望得到你的同意。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:05:53.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:05:53.734000+08:00","text":"你的看法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:05:55.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:05:58.471000+08:00","text":"非常謝謝委員長久以來對動物保護的關注。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:05:59.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:06:05.895000+08:00","text":"關於剛剛委員提的問題，在現在的規定，第一個一定要是故意，第二個是要造成重大傷殘啦！對。","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:06:09.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:06:11.298000+08:00","text":"以我們現在的資料，大概每一年……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:06:12.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:06:14.100000+08:00","text":"還有一個，重要器官……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:06:14.100000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:06:15.100000+08:00","text":"對，重要器官……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:06:14.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:06:16.001000+08:00","text":"但每一個都是重要器官啊！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:06:17.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:06:18.583000+08:00","text":"哪一個不是重要器官？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:06:18.583000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:06:19.583000+08:00","text":"我知道，就是重大傷殘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:06:19.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:06:41.342000+08:00","text":"我要跟委員報告，過去幾年來，平均一年大概在1,200件到1,400件左右，今年到目前為止大概有883件，但這是通報的，也誠如你講的，通報以後，還要有證據，對於證據部分，我個人是支持委員的看法，當然，故意跟非故意是由相關單位判斷，但是在造成重大傷殘或損害重大器官的時候，也許可以分級跟分類，分級跟分類以後就會……","quality":0.531},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:06:41.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:06:46.597455+08:00","text":"對，這很重要，部長現在的回答跟本席的方向一樣。","quality":0.05},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:06:46.597455+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:06:51.852909+08:00","text":"故意傷害或者致使動物遭受傷害是基本條件，問題是致動物肢體或器官功能損傷就應該罰他。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:06:51.852909+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:06:57.108364+08:00","text":"因為依照現行條文是要涉及重要器官還有嚴重殘缺，照這個評論點就沒有辦法判啊！是。","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:06:57.108364+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:07:02.363818+08:00","text":"任何一個器官都很重要，什麼叫重要器官啊？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:07:02.363818+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:07:07.619273+08:00","text":"對不對？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:07:07.619273+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:07:12.874727+08:00","text":"心是重要器官？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:07:12.874727+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:07:18.130182+08:00","text":"還是肺啊？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:07:18.130182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:07:23.385636+08:00","text":"是哪一個啊？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:07:23.385636+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:07:28.641091+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:07:28.641091+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:07:33.896545+08:00","text":"條文根本讓執行者沒有辦法執行。","quality":0.214},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:07:33.896545+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:07:39.152000+08:00","text":"所以本席……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:07:39.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:07:44.815000+08:00","text":"所以我剛才說了，就是我希望未來對於傷殘這部分也要作一些分類，這樣比較能夠達到目的。","quality":0.447},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:07:44.815000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:07:48.758000+08:00","text":"趕快做，趁本席也提案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:07:48.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:07:50.639000+08:00","text":"第二，第二十五條之一也很重要。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:07:51.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:07:53.701000+08:00","text":"原來的條文寫什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:07:53.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:04.183000+08:00","text":"「使用藥物、槍械，致複數動物死亡情節重大者」，也就是一定要有槍械、也一定要有藥物。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:05.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:14.948000+08:00","text":"那本席要修正文字，除了使用藥物、槍械，暴力或者是施以其他凌虐方式這些都要納入。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:15.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:19.351000+08:00","text":"哪有一定要用槍、一定要用藥才算凌虐？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:21.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:23.994000+08:00","text":"很多人用棒球棒，是不是啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:24.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:29.959000+08:00","text":"有人用棒球棒把動物打到死，連頭顱都打破了，這不用判？","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:31.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:32.141000+08:00","text":"怎麼可以這樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:32.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:33.182000+08:00","text":"莫名其妙！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:33.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:35.224000+08:00","text":"我完全同意委員的看法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:36.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:39.588000+08:00","text":"現在槍械本來就是受管制的，要找到槍械其實也困難。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:39.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:40.228000+08:00","text":"所以條文這樣寫，你還不改！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:40.228000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:41.479000+08:00","text":"我們的版本會尊重委員會裡討論的這些意見，適度把它納入。","quality":0.04},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:41.479000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:42.730000+08:00","text":"到時候會尊重委員的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:42.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:08:44.971000+08:00","text":"你同意本席所說的，除了藥物、槍械，也應納入暴力或施以其他凌虐方式，對不對？","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:08:45.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:04.262000+08:00","text":"基本上同意，但針對暴力部分可能要作一些界定啦！","quality":0.381},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:04.262000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:07.031429+08:00","text":"這牽涉執行面的問題……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:07.031429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:09.800857+08:00","text":"界定沒關係，你趕快去研討。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:09.800857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:12.570286+08:00","text":"我們原則上同意，原則上同意用這種方式。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:12.570286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:15.339714+08:00","text":"原則上同意嘛！是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:15.339714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:18.109143+08:00","text":"那我要謝謝你。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:18.109143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:20.878571+08:00","text":"至於細節部分，你趕快去研討，這非常重要。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:20.878571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:23.648000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:23.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:34.022000+08:00","text":"接下來我要告訴你，零撲殺政策在2017年上路，你們花了1億元，補助各縣市政府犬隻結紮，我們還看到政府2020年宣示，預計12年之後街頭遊蕩犬要清零。","quality":0.439},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:35.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:38.307000+08:00","text":"可是我告訴你，遊蕩犬愈做愈多，現在有15萬隻！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:41.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:42.635000+08:00","text":"這怎麼辦？我……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:42.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:44.817000+08:00","text":"為什麼花了那麼多錢，反而更多呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:46.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:46.638000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:47.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:49.380000+08:00","text":"對於2032年要達標，你有沒有信心？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:50.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:51.842000+08:00","text":"你的目標是2032年。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:52.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:53.623000+08:00","text":"我不知道當初訂這個目標是怎麼樣……","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:54.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:09:57.946000+08:00","text":"2032年流浪犬隻絕育的目標會不會達到？我很……","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:09:59.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:00.247000+08:00","text":"這是你現在的KPI喔！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:01.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:10.795000+08:00","text":"對，我很務實地跟委員報告，當初2020年定12年清零目標時，我覺得做不到，我第一個想法是覺得做不到。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:10.795000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:16.034000+08:00","text":"但是我要跟委員報告，現在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:16.034000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:21.273000+08:00","text":"你願意承認當時的政策是錯誤的，那麼執行的過程怎麼調整？","quality":0.08},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:21.273000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:26.512000+08:00","text":"愈弄愈多，這怎麼辦？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:26.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:26.853000+08:00","text":"我們沒有愈弄愈多啊！","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:28.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:33.518000+08:00","text":"這點我要跟委員報告，我們也算過，以流浪犬本身的繁殖率來說，如果我們沒有任何作為的話，現在可能變成18萬隻、20萬隻了，但現在還是壓在15萬隻與16萬隻之間，表示我們現在的作為有一些成效。","quality":0.662},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:33.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:33.658000+08:00","text":"我承認沒有辦法……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:33.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:34.198000+08:00","text":"有一些成效是不夠的嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:34.198000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:35.198000+08:00","text":"對，是要努力，我了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:34.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:34.619000+08:00","text":"跟2032年的目標相比，現在還是15萬、16萬隻啊！","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:34.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:34.819000+08:00","text":"那很恐怖欸！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:34.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:35.519000+08:00","text":"我們的公園現在有很多人不敢去欸！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:35.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:35.539000+08:00","text":"這怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:53.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:53.417000+08:00","text":"我了解。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:54.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:55.618000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，所以現在熱區擴大，是以鄉里為單位的熱區。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:55.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:56.478000+08:00","text":"另外，我們也對外公開徵求，看看有什麼好的辦法，因為……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:56.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:56.759000+08:00","text":"你講到重點了！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:56.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:10:57.339000+08:00","text":"有什麼好的辦法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:10:57.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:00.460000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，不丹這個國家只花了15年，將全國流浪犬隻全部結紮完畢，我要問：臺灣要多久？","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:00.460000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:06.270000+08:00","text":"相關單位要趕快去看世界各國怎麼做，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:06.270000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:12.080000+08:00","text":"了解，我們會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:12.080000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:17.890000+08:00","text":"你趕快去看看怎麼做。會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:17.890000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:23.700000+08:00","text":"要不要檢討啊？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:23.700000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:29.510000+08:00","text":"一定要檢討。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:29.510000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:35.320000+08:00","text":"一定要檢討喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:35.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:41.266000+08:00","text":"你有guts地承認2032年是達不到的，所以我拜託你，我用「拜託」的，因為我覺得面對這些動物、毛小孩，一定要把牠弄好，對不對？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:41.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:50.536000+08:00","text":"這是整個國家很需要的，所以請你趕快去看世界各國，我就舉例不丹給你，他們花了15年全部完成！","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:50.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:51.097000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:51.097000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:52.097000+08:00","text":"對，我們會去了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:51.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:51.297000+08:00","text":"你去了解，順便把資料給本席。好。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:51.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:51.477000+08:00","text":"最後一個議題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:57.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:11:58.463000+08:00","text":"物價指數從93.58漲到現在的104.7，成長率是11%，本席要跟你討論的就是農民津貼的問題。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:11:58.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:12:43.405000+08:00","text":"老農津貼領取標準10年前規定在財產500萬元，但現在物價指數提高幅度很大，也有極端氣候，還有房屋增值稅一直這麼高、地價稅也一直這麼高，標準仍然是10年前所定的500萬元，很多人說他住一樣的房子，但因為政府將房地價值提高，讓他財產超標，沒辦法領老農津貼。","quality":0.679},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:12:44.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:12:55.494000+08:00","text":"我個人認為，如果他的房屋沒有增加，那這是不對的，如果他的房屋沒有增加，仍在一樣的範疇，政府卻提高其價值，那是不是也應該提高領取標準？","quality":0.644},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:12:55.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:12:56.935000+08:00","text":"本席具體建議從500萬元提高到800萬元，真正地照顧這些老農。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:12:57.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:12:57.275000+08:00","text":"您的看法呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:02.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:17.245000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，其實在上上個會期，針對老農津貼我們也提出了說明，現在是每4年根據CPI調整；針對調整我們設計出新的方法，但也要看與其他社福基金的一致性。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:17.245000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:20.777833+08:00","text":"第二部分，針對500萬元……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:20.777833+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:24.310667+08:00","text":"社福基金跟老農津貼的基本基礎並不一致，因為房價指數從79.75調漲到126.33，調漲率是58%欸！","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:24.310667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:27.843500+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:27.843500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:31.376333+08:00","text":"對，我也了解，所以我們在上次報院版本的建議中提到，不只是財產500萬元，也包括個人所得的部分……","quality":0.051},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:31.376333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:34.909167+08:00","text":"對，怎麼調？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:34.909167+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:38.442000+08:00","text":"我覺得可以做適度放寬的建議，但是相對的，當時……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:38.442000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:41.974833+08:00","text":"什麼時候要出來？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:41.974833+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:45.507667+08:00","text":"我們有一些版本……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:45.507667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:49.040500+08:00","text":"本席就提案，要求你將500萬元提升到800萬元。","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:49.040500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:52.573333+08:00","text":"這部分可能要配合其他社福基金處理。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:52.573333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:56.106167+08:00","text":"多久時間可以研討出來、交給我們？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:56.106167+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:13:59.639000+08:00","text":"給我一個時間點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:13:59.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:02.361000+08:00","text":"應該是在去年年底已經……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:02.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:06.483000+08:00","text":"什麼時間點可以告訴我們，你們說的提升是要提升多少？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:06.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:07.644000+08:00","text":"不是，我跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:07.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:09.185000+08:00","text":"沒關係，你告訴我們。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:09.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:16.610000+08:00","text":"農業部有規劃了，去年年底已經報到院裡去了，院裡考量老農津貼跟其他社福……","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:16.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:17.510000+08:00","text":"那現在怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:17.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:19.612000+08:00","text":"你還沒有答案，那現在怎麼辦？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:19.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:22.193000+08:00","text":"我們的版本要經過院裡核定以後……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:22.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:22.874000+08:00","text":"什麼時候要再送？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:23.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:34.453000+08:00","text":"我會向行政院請示，但這個議題要連同其他八大社福基金一併討論、不是單一的，因為都是根據CPI調的。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:34.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:38.836000+08:00","text":"就你的老農津貼，什麼時候可以再次提到行政院？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:39.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:49.580000+08:00","text":"我們可以將原來的版本先提供給委員參考，但這個議題討論的時候絕對不是只須處理老農津貼，還必須處理……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:49.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:52.001000+08:00","text":"本席請教你老農津貼，請你把你們目前的方案給本席。是。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:52.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:14:55.662000+08:00","text":"你也要告訴我，你們什麼時間可以再送到行政院，好不好？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:14:56.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:15:00.185000+08:00","text":"如果根據委員的要求，我們可以再次提報給行政院。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:15:01.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:15:02.827000+08:00","text":"對，因為明知道必須調嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:15:02.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:15:04.209000+08:00","text":"已經58%了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:15:04.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:15:09.072000+08:00","text":"房價指數上漲的程度是58%，10年前的標準到現在當然不敷所用啦！","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:15:09.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:15:10.213000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:15:10.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:15:15.638000+08:00","text":"而且條件基準不一，沒有改變就取消資格，這是沒道理的啊！","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:15:16.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:15:16.539000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2024-11-13T11:15:16.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:15:18.680000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們會報到行政院，然後看社福基金……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2024-11-13T11:15:18.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T11:15:19.621000+08:00","text":"既然你說「對」，那就要加油，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席（楊委員瓊瓔代）","start":"2024-11-13T11:15:20.121000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T11:15:23.263857+08:00","text":"接下來請呂玉玲委員詢答。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":550,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時2分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。首先邀請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。部長，在114年度的預算裡頭，針對動保管理編列的是5.6億元左右，當然我們希望能夠好好落實、推廣，減少虐待動物的情況。據資料，每一年虐待動物──顯性的喔！隱性的還不知道，顯性的部分，通報大概有上千件，但是受到法院判決、動保處開罰的案件每年不到100件，換句話說，裁罰的比例大概只有7.8%，96%施虐者只要繳繳罰金就可以免除牢災，這樣的情況讓坊間認為好像虐打毒殺可以花錢了事。我覺得這樣的觀念如果持續在我們的社會面生根，會與當時設立的方向完全背道而馳。現在動保機關跟委託的協會也很無奈地說要有遺體、要有屍體，法院才會判案，目前是如此。所以本席要請教部長，如果為了定罪，得有無辜動物當祭品，那也是很負面的教育，這是絕對不對的！","動保法第二十五條規定，必須動物嚴重殘缺或死亡才能夠判處，實務上等於最好是在虐待當時就要趕快錄影、拍照起來，但這樣要怎麼保護動物的安全？所以本席特別提出第二十五條的修正，以往條文規定是要致使動物肢體嚴重殘缺，或重要器官功能喪失，問題是目前有很多方式的虐待行為，本席認為，如果依現行法律的文字規定，根本就誠如剛剛所說的，只有零點幾個百分比可以判處而已，所以本席提案，如果使動物遭受傷害、故意傷害或是使動物遭受傷害致動物肢體或器官功能受損就成立。針對本席具體的文字建議，希望得到你的同意。你的看法？"],["陳部長駿季：非常謝謝委員長久以來對動物保護的關注。關於剛剛委員提的問題，在現在的規定，第一個一定要是故意，第二個是要造成重大傷殘啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對。"],["陳部長駿季：以我們現在的資料，大概每一年……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還有一個，重要器官……"],["陳部長駿季：對，重要器官……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但每一個都是重要器官啊！哪一個不是重要器官？"],["陳部長駿季：我知道，就是重大傷殘。我要跟委員報告，過去幾年來，平均一年大概在1,200件到1,400件左右，今年到目前為止大概有883件，但這是通報的，也誠如你講的，通報以後，還要有證據，對於證據部分，我個人是支持委員的看法，當然，故意跟非故意是由相關單位判斷，但是在造成重大傷殘或損害重大器官的時候，也許可以分級跟分類，分級跟分類以後就會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，這很重要，部長現在的回答跟本席的方向一樣。故意傷害或者致使動物遭受傷害是基本條件，問題是致動物肢體或器官功能損傷就應該罰他。因為依照現行條文是要涉及重要器官還有嚴重殘缺，照這個評論點就沒有辦法判啊！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：任何一個器官都很重要，什麼叫重要器官啊？對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：心是重要器官？還是肺啊？是哪一個啊？對不對？條文根本讓執行者沒有辦法執行。所以本席……"],["陳部長駿季：所以我剛才說了，就是我希望未來對於傷殘這部分也要作一些分類，這樣比較能夠達到目的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：趕快做，趁本席也提案。","第二，第二十五條之一也很重要。原來的條文寫什麼？「使用藥物、槍械，致複數動物死亡情節重大者」，也就是一定要有槍械、也一定要有藥物。那本席要修正文字，除了使用藥物、槍械，暴力或者是施以其他凌虐方式這些都要納入。哪有一定要用槍、一定要用藥才算凌虐？很多人用棒球棒，是不是啊？有人用棒球棒把動物打到死，連頭顱都打破了，這不用判？怎麼可以這樣？莫名其妙！"],["陳部長駿季：我完全同意委員的看法。現在槍械本來就是受管制的，要找到槍械其實也困難。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以條文這樣寫，你還不改！"],["陳部長駿季：我們的版本會尊重委員會裡討論的這些意見，適度把它納入。到時候會尊重委員的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你同意本席所說的，除了藥物、槍械，也應納入暴力或施以其他凌虐方式，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：基本上同意，但針對暴力部分可能要作一些界定啦！這牽涉執行面的問題……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：界定沒關係，你趕快去研討。"],["陳部長駿季：我們原則上同意，原則上同意用這種方式。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：原則上同意嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那我要謝謝你。至於細節部分，你趕快去研討，這非常重要。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來我要告訴你，零撲殺政策在2017年上路，你們花了1億元，補助各縣市政府犬隻結紮，我們還看到政府2020年宣示，預計12年之後街頭遊蕩犬要清零。可是我告訴你，遊蕩犬愈做愈多，現在有15萬隻！這怎麼辦？"],["陳部長駿季：我……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：為什麼花了那麼多錢，反而更多呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對於2032年要達標，你有沒有信心？你的目標是2032年。"],["陳部長駿季：我不知道當初訂這個目標是怎麼樣……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：2032年流浪犬隻絕育的目標會不會達到？"],["陳部長駿季：我很……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是你現在的KPI喔！"],["陳部長駿季：對，我很務實地跟委員報告，當初2020年定12年清零目標時，我覺得做不到，我第一個想法是覺得做不到。但是我要跟委員報告，現在……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你願意承認當時的政策是錯誤的，那麼執行的過程怎麼調整？愈弄愈多，這怎麼辦？"],["陳部長駿季：我們沒有愈弄愈多啊！這點我要跟委員報告，我們也算過，以流浪犬本身的繁殖率來說，如果我們沒有任何作為的話，現在可能變成18萬隻、20萬隻了，但現在還是壓在15萬隻與16萬隻之間，表示我們現在的作為有一些成效。我承認沒有辦法……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有一些成效是不夠的嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：對，是要努力，我了解。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：跟2032年的目標相比，現在還是15萬、16萬隻啊！那很恐怖欸！我們的公園現在有很多人不敢去欸！這怎麼辦？"],["陳部長駿季：我了解。跟委員報告，所以現在熱區擴大，是以鄉里為單位的熱區。另外，我們也對外公開徵求，看看有什麼好的辦法，因為……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你講到重點了！有什麼好的辦法？我告訴你，不丹這個國家只花了15年，將全國流浪犬隻全部結紮完畢，我要問：臺灣要多久？相關單位要趕快去看世界各國怎麼做，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：了解，我們會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你趕快去看看怎麼做。"],["陳部長駿季：會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要不要檢討啊？"],["陳部長駿季：一定要檢討。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一定要檢討喔！你有guts地承認2032年是達不到的，所以我拜託你，我用「拜託」的，因為我覺得面對這些動物、毛小孩，一定要把牠弄好，對不對？這是整個國家很需要的，所以請你趕快去看世界各國，我就舉例不丹給你，他們花了15年全部完成！好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們會去了解。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你去了解，順便把資料給本席。"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：最後一個議題。物價指數從93.58漲到現在的104.7，成長率是11%，本席要跟你討論的就是農民津貼的問題。老農津貼領取標準10年前規定在財產500萬元，但現在物價指數提高幅度很大，也有極端氣候，還有房屋增值稅一直這麼高、地價稅也一直這麼高，標準仍然是10年前所定的500萬元，很多人說他住一樣的房子，但因為政府將房地價值提高，讓他財產超標，沒辦法領老農津貼。我個人認為，如果他的房屋沒有增加，那這是不對的，如果他的房屋沒有增加，仍在一樣的範疇，政府卻提高其價值，那是不是也應該提高領取標準？本席具體建議從500萬元提高到800萬元，真正地照顧這些老農。您的看法呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，其實在上上個會期，針對老農津貼我們也提出了說明，現在是每4年根據CPI調整；針對調整我們設計出新的方法，但也要看與其他社福基金的一致性。第二部分，針對500萬元……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：社福基金跟老農津貼的基本基礎並不一致，因為房價指數從79.75調漲到126.33，調漲率是58%欸！對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我也了解，所以我們在上次報院版本的建議中提到，不只是財產500萬元，也包括個人所得的部分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，怎麼調？"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得可以做適度放寬的建議，但是相對的，當時……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：什麼時候要出來？"],["陳部長駿季：我們有一些版本……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席就提案，要求你將500萬元提升到800萬元。"],["陳部長駿季：這部分可能要配合其他社福基金處理。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多久時間可以研討出來、交給我們？給我一個時間點。"],["陳部長駿季：應該是在去年年底已經……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：什麼時間點可以告訴我們，你們說的提升是要提升多少？"],["陳部長駿季：不是，我跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒關係，你告訴我們。"],["陳部長駿季：農業部有規劃了，去年年底已經報到院裡去了，院裡考量老農津貼跟其他社福……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那現在怎麼辦？你還沒有答案，那現在怎麼辦？"],["陳部長駿季：我們的版本要經過院裡核定以後……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：什麼時候要再送？"],["陳部長駿季：我會向行政院請示，但這個議題要連同其他八大社福基金一併討論、不是單一的，因為都是根據CPI調的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就你的老農津貼，什麼時候可以再次提到行政院？"],["陳部長駿季：我們可以將原來的版本先提供給委員參考，但這個議題討論的時候絕對不是只須處理老農津貼，還必須處理……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席請教你老農津貼，請你把你們目前的方案給本席。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也要告訴我，你們什麼時間可以再送到行政院，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：如果根據委員的要求，我們可以再次提報給行政院。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，因為明知道必須調嘛！已經58%了嘛！房價指數上漲的程度是58%，10年前的標準到現在當然不敷所用啦！對不對？而且條件基準不一，沒有改變就取消資格，這是沒道理的啊！好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：對，所以我們會報到行政院，然後看社福基金……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：既然你說「對」，那就要加油，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席（楊委員瓊瓔代）：接下來請呂玉玲委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}