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（二）資本計畫基金－國軍營舍及設施改建基金。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.26721875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.3303437500000002,"end":2.0897187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.94096875,"end":9.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.290968750000001,"end":14.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.52221875,"end":28.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.364093750000002,"end":30.524093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.91221875,"end":33.072218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.595343750000005,"end":40.767218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.31971875,"end":46.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.55096875,"end":52.461593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.11534375,"end":54.992843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.174093750000004,"end":60.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.523468750000006,"end":70.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.60284375,"end":66.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.77096875000001,"end":73.30221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.67346875,"end":88.28721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.07284375,"end":83.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.08971875,"end":84.22034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.28721875000001,"end":90.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.69596875,"end":99.25596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.52159375000001,"end":104.30159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.47034375000001,"end":105.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.66846875,"end":105.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.51221875,"end":138.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.45659375,"end":138.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.54096875000002,"end":138.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.69284375,"end":143.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.75534375,"end":151.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.99034375000002,"end":162.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.57409375,"end":180.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.84659375,"end":187.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.91721875000002,"end":188.64284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.01409375,"end":190.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.53284375,"end":193.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.20721875,"end":195.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.13534375,"end":208.60596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.92659375000002,"end":229.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.49284375000002,"end":235.85909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.43284375000002,"end":252.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.70471875,"end":252.73409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.61596875,"end":291.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.09096875,"end":301.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.12346875000003,"end":299.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.41846875000005,"end":302.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.35909375,"end":333.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.64971875000003,"end":346.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.92596875000004,"end":365.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.94846875,"end":378.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.73971875,"end":381.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.59159375,"end":382.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.12721875,"end":402.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.78659375,"end":406.75221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.74784375,"end":409.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.44784375,"end":415.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.93221875,"end":416.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.23159375,"end":436.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.60409375,"end":444.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.69659375000003,"end":438.78096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.52346875,"end":440.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.15971875,"end":448.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.19721875000005,"end":451.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.91846875000005,"end":456.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.24659375000005,"end":457.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.80346875000004,"end":465.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.64221875000004,"end":463.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.39284375000005,"end":467.89034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.41346875000005,"end":471.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.92346875000004,"end":473.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":472.51409375000003,"end":474.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.87659375000004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部長請是 鴻偉部長我想請教因為這幾天昨天晚上翁小林委員想要刪除吳斯懷條款的提案其實當然大家都有很多的討論"},{"start":24.722,"end":52.062,"text":"那據我所知看起來這個翁小英委的提案可能會因為他連署人數不足不會提出可是我今天早上我們看了這個國民黨團尤其是他們書記長對這個事情的回應他說這個我們的退退退退退出席將領到對岸去唱對方的國歌這是基於禮貌"},{"start":54.164,"end":77.824,"text":"部長你同不同意我想如果是就是說認定已經認定比如說前面有一個個案這個張又俠的那個案子他我們已經做成一個他起立聆聽這個中國國歌這樣的一個行為我們已經依照違反兩岸人民關係條例9條13的規定給他"},{"start":79.918,"end":105.559,"text":"五年停止零售業推崩的百分之七十五（所以我已經認定像這樣的行為是屬於有損害國家尊嚴的一個行為是那我說現在我們看到災黨說認為這是基於禮貌甚至說你們這樣處罰這是對於思想自由的禁錮啊部長你同意這個講法嗎這是你在前置思想自由啊"},{"start":106.547,"end":124.533,"text":"沒有我想我們的處分已經表達了我們國防部的還有其他各部會因為我們這是經過審查會通過的這個審查會不是只有國防部也包括了像陸委會還有包括國安局等等其他各單位所以是大家的有權機關的也也參"},{"start":125.413,"end":150.282,"text":"就是對於兩岸關係條例這個有權解釋機關的看法那國防部也同意這樣的一個看法所以我想應該是已經不是一個單純的基於禮貌的這樣的一個行為好我希望國防部可以對這項這樣子的事件我們的立場要表達夠清楚我想這邊沒有什麼任何理由我們跑到對面對岸去然後在一個真正沒有思想自由的地方說"},{"start":152.085,"end":160.352,"text":"唱了國歌反而你處罰他還叫做思想自由的禁錮我想這是絕大無法接受的事情那我接下來想要跟部長討論我想請政戰局"},{"start":170.068,"end":193.165,"text":"部長跟局長上個會期其實在4月的時候我當時有質詢當然很多委員都關心到國軍心腹人員人力嚴重不足的問題我們看到一位心腹人員需要關照到405位的官兵甚至有心腹證照的人員要照顧2318位的官兵平均下來"},{"start":195.256,"end":223.769,"text":"那現在大家都知道說這個心理的健康其實是國軍戰力非常非常重要的基礎很重要那當時其實我們也建議說要求說應該要培育心腹的專業人才尤其是要藉助民間的力量跟民間的資源那後來政戰局有回覆我確實有回覆我說他們有這個往年有所謂連結民間福島資源的這個計畫我想請問大家經過了半年以後目前就"},{"start":225.43,"end":252.465,"text":"這個我們的國防部目前還有什麼精進的作為這部分是委員好徵案局局長報告就是在這近期我們已經規劃了國軍心理健康照護方案那這個方案原來就是我們鏈結民間心腹資源的部分對那我們呢會這個增加預算來服務照顧我們的官兵那另外增加多少預算"},{"start":253.085,"end":275.602,"text":"我們明明年是編列兩千零一十六萬那另外呢我們也會增設聚症照的心腹人力區分兩年兩個階段來增加44位的心腹人力還有就是我們在軍醫局在今年的七月一號已經將心理健康"},{"start":276.683,"end":300.96,"text":"納入年度體檢裡面所以像我們去執行年度體檢包含我在內都會有一關就是心理健康的一個評估的這個項目來增進我們官兵的心理健康據說我有看到資料包括預算書上面資料看到你們相比於今年然後去年明年的預算的編列好像是今年的10倍是"},{"start":301.48,"end":321.188,"text":"那在這個心理健康上面的預算尤其是這個委辦費上面從一百七十幾萬變成一千七百四十幾萬當然這在你們整個國防部的預算裡面佔的比例還是非常低可是就這個增加的幅度當然我們可以肯定可是我其實是想要問一下局長"},{"start":322.428,"end":345.956,"text":"我手上有一份這個這其實是20應該2022年之前這個監察院的一個調查的報告針對你們陸軍其實一位黃姓中衛的步兵他的上吊自殺的事件的一個調查的報告我不知道你們有沒有看這份調查的報告這上面其實裡面也提到了很多關於我們在新府機制上面的問題包括他其實談到"},{"start":347.99,"end":350.892,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基"},{"start":366.762,"end":369.644,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基"},{"start":382.03,"end":409.464,"text":"這個工作部分很可能就會在工作時間上面被排擠那也提到包括我也看到了我們在審計部之前的報告也提到其實我們在過去五年國軍智商的案件中其實有80%的官兵並沒有在現在的三級防處機制裡面被發現局長你覺得針對這些這都是我們幾個單位出來的報告你們有沒有提出什麼改善的做法"},{"start":410.509,"end":416.036,"text":"是跟委員報告在這個部分就是我們"},{"start":417.301,"end":443.166,"text":"每年在官兵組就是聯保長跟我們的新府官在第一線初級防處的部分我們每年篩略出來需要輔導的個案有兩三千位的個案那這些個案都是經過長期的輔導之後狀況穩定我現在講的事情是說我們審計部的報告裡面說過去智商事件智商事件有80%"},{"start":445.242,"end":471.054,"text":"沒有在我們的三級防處機制裡面發現啊是 這個也是我們需要所以代表我們有防處機制有三級防處機制但是他沒撈到這些人他無法掌握到這些人啊是 我不好意思現在直接說這防處機制是不是失敗也許他在某些部分也扮演了一點角色可是百分之八十這個數字很大啊是 報告委員 這個就是我們國人欠缺主動求助的一個觀念"},{"start":473.295,"end":500.172,"text":"所以你是要怪給國人嗎是我們改進因為這個部分我們也希望能夠盡量去發掘局長跟部長我想表達第一個我們對於尤其在明年的預算裡面你們在新府的資源包括委辦費的這個增加的部分我們當然支持可是看起來不是只是預算增加就可以的事情我覺得這幾份報告裡面我其實全部都詳細讀過了"},{"start":502.233,"end":518.782,"text":"這讀過裏面有很多其實還是有機制性上面的問題我們目前在這些機制上面的問題這不是只有預算的問題機制上面的問題我自己是希望我可以提供這份報告的內容我們可不可以請國防部至少有個我可以給兩個月的時間你們研議一下在這些機制上面"},{"start":519.682,"end":541.469,"text":"能夠有什麼精進的空間包括裡面講到說我們這些表面形式文化變成這些辛苦人員其實已經很少了每天他都在不斷地趕這些形式上面的表單排擠到他們實質上面可以做的協助助人的工作這倒看起來是有很大可以改善的空間是不是可以給兩個月的時間然後有一份報告讓我們知道國防部接下來在這些機制性上的問題"},{"start":542.529,"end":569.193,"text":"要怎麼改善來對應你們的預算的增加不然你們預算即便增加假如實質的部分落實沒辦法做好也還是白搭好不好這部分部長跟局長可以嗎是方委員我們提出精進做法部長可以嗎是我想主要是要怎麼樣子來主動這個發掘這個主動來篩理這個有異常徵喉的這個部分要如何能夠真正的做到"},{"start":569.793,"end":588.236,"text":"那我想他剛剛局長要表達的應該不是在貴賊任何主要是就是在於是說我們應該要將這一些作為要把它要實質啦就是說去掉你剛剛也講到了不要"},{"start":589.017,"end":606.983,"text":"做過多的這個形式的這部分部長上任以後我覺得做了很多這方面的事情我們都可以肯定阿對那我現在也打算我們要增加這個新埔的政照的人員那也要給他們一定的加級然後來主動來因為有涉及到缺乏專業政照這個部分"},{"start":608.343,"end":619.475,"text":"那有關剛剛提到的那些表面的形式文化這個下來之後我想我會跟政財局我們再來好好地研議兩個月的時間好不好給國防部的這邊來檢討謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}