{"error":false,"id":["156794"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":156794,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156794","日期":"2024-11-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-19-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-11-13T11:42:17+08:00","結束時間":"2024-11-13T11:53:09+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:52","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678825a774bbb1da80e9fc666e425fd8fe7ce953f66f7e506053a001556f561b11a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳超明","委員發言時間":"11:42:17 - 11:53:09","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           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文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":764,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時42分）謝謝主席。首先有請農業部陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員早。"],["陳委員超明：部長早。今天主要是討論動物保護法，我請教你一個問題，幾十年來我們的流浪狗、流浪貓只有增加，沒有減少，原因到底在哪裡？"],["陳部長駿季：第一個部分就是棄養，這是一個原因。第二個部分就是這些野外的流浪貓自然的繁殖，如果以現在的繁殖倍率跟公母的比例來說，現在的一些作為的確有抑制，但是沒有辦法馬上就清零。"],["陳委員超明：好，我告訴你，做事情要追求本源，我現在看這個社會很奇怪，現在推寵物車的比推嬰兒車的還要多。第二個，我是實際講，我的秘書告訴我有關動物的部分不能亂講話，現在照顧這些寵物的比照顧他的爸爸媽媽更重要，而且下的心力又多，一隻寵物過世，如喪考妣，我們每天跑婚喪喜慶，感觸良多，所以在此我要說，既然寵物也要跟人一樣，對於敢養寵物的人，我要問，我們現在所有的寵物體內只有植入晶片而已，對不對？你要養寵物，那麼就要跟人登記身分證一樣，都要登記下來，我覺得這個很重要，你敢養，就要負這樣的責任，為什麼會有這樣的情形？養人是有責任的問題，養孩子壓力很大，隨時都會被盯著，你沒有做，會覺得良心不安，各種條件就會來制裁你，要你好好照顧下一代的孩子。如果是養寵物，今天我心情好，我就把牠抱在一起，我生氣了，或是各種理由，我就把寵物放到外面，沒有負一點社會責任，所以你要從根本上去處理，你敢養寵物，你有拿政府的補助或是各方面的補貼，真的，照顧寵物的錢比照顧小孩子的錢還多，所以你們要限制一個條件，不然你說了那麼多也沒有用。現在政府為什麼不敢做？因為年輕人養寵物很多，跟選票有關係，只要稍微講得對寵物不好的話，選票都跑掉了，但是我這個人是實際做事情，我把這個問題拿出來，你們好好研究，你的看法怎麼樣？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，第一個，我們其實已經在推動寵物身分證，寵物身分證除了代表寵物的身分以外，也代表了寵物的登記，有了登記以後，後面的管理就可以做。","第二點，我們看到現在很多流浪貓、流浪犬，包括現在整個寵物市場，我覺得非常重要的就是飼主的責任……"],["陳委員超明：對，對，對，源頭管制好。我是跟你說這點，這個主題我不敢亂講，因為我看到實在的情形，照顧寵物跟照顧人不一樣，我們有感受到，但是不敢講，聽得懂嗎？","第二個，我還記得立法院第10屆委員會的時候，南部的人說獼猴跑到果園裡面去，你們怎麼樣去防治？有沒有進一步的成果？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在第一個就是對電幕網的部分去補助，然後更重要的就是，我會請我們的林保署去公開徵求更好的方法，我們給予獎金。"],["陳委員超明：徵求出來了沒有？"],["陳部長駿季：現在還在徵求當中。"],["陳委員超明：好，現在表示你們復育成功，以前在我們苗栗、臺中都沒有獼猴，結果你把網子做下來，獼猴就從南部一直跑到北部、中部來了，我現在為什麼提這個問題出來？我下鄉的時候，那些果農告訴我：欸！陳委員，你家做高科技的，不然你也去找一些生技的東西來，那些猴子來，就對牠們注射，不是要讓牠們死，我先講好，是讓牠們不能生。我說：我不敢做，你叫我去做這個東西出來，那些養寵物的人會把我罵死。但是我們苗栗縣現在山區的果農都已經碰到這樣的問題。我還記得從第10屆開始說到現在，我現在來取經，我每一次下鄉的時候，那些果農說我都沒有反映，也沒有解決問題，所以我就等著這一天，南部的經驗怎麼樣？獼猴對水果的損害，我跟你說，一棵梨子果樹原本可以生產140顆至160顆梨子，被獼猴偷吃以後剩不到10顆，要怎麼解決？有沒有好的方法？那麼久了，有沒有想出一套辦法？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，之前獼猴是保育類動物，所以我們保護的強度比較強，獼猴的繁衍速度太快，現在已經降為一般類的野生動物，在一些情況之下，是可以獵殺的，可是我們通常不喜歡獵殺，所以我們都是用電幕網圍捕的。"],["陳委員超明：部長，你說臺灣是一個進步的國家，你說我們農業一流，我們的動物實驗所那麼多，其實可以做一個專案去想，你們現在沒有在想，只會花錢來補償，要是有一種生物製劑，不傷害寵物又能斷絕牠的繁衍，你們就要去研究，不要照傳統的做法。我今天的重點只有一點，我苗栗的問題要如何解決？我先說，我們苗栗的水果都是種在山坡地，跟南部種在平地不一樣，網子圍了以後，還要拉緊，拉高拉低來調整，你幫我想一下怎麼來解決，我給你考試一下。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，第一個，像這樣的防猴的部分，應該跟當地的居民、農民一起合作，提供巡守，然後驅趕，試驗單位現在有非常多的驅趕的作為……"],["陳委員超明：你都作表面文章，我怎麼知道如何捉猴？我怎麼知道猴子晚上要來還是白天要來？我們人不就要每天都去巡視？你們要出多少錢？現在人工就不夠了嘛，我們要用有實效的方法嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在是用圍捕的方式，我們會根據委員的意見，看有沒有更積極的作為。"],["陳委員超明：這樣好了，你們真的是不作為，不研究一個新的技術，那麼這樣的問題就沒有辦法解決，你們那麼多的實驗所，你們那麼多的專家，卻束手無策，要說臺灣農業有多進步，我也不怎麼相信，尤其你是科技出身的來當部長，應該想出新的辦法，我現在只是要解決我們地方的問題，你說要裝那個電網，你說要抓猴，我不曉得猴子是早上還是晚上來，我天天要派人去繞，山區那麼大，如何去找？所以這不務實。我看到我們縣政府說不錯，我不相信這不錯，我說是很爛的做法。再來，你要怎麼處理這些猴子，來保護農民？你們一定有一套辦法，過了五、六年，這個問題沒有辦法解決。"],["陳部長駿季：委員如果有比較好的辦法，我們也樂於接受，因為我們對外徵求……"],["陳委員超明：好，改天你請我吃飯，我再跟你說。再等我一下，我還有幾個問題，現在有這樣的情形，能不能用農業災害補償的方式來處理？災害確實嚴重，我特別發誓給你看，你用農業災害的補償辦法，先補償這些農民，不然他們水果種了那麼久，採收的量那麼少，你於心何忍？這個用農業災害來補償，不會用很多錢，你能不能這麼做？我現在是要求做出解決事情的辦法。"],["陳部長駿季：災害的救助是一個事後的處理，我們還是希望有更多的方法，包括外界也都……"],["陳委員超明：我現在不能等到你有更多的方法，災害已經造成了，目前的辦法你要先幫我想出來。"],["陳部長駿季：我會慎重地考慮，以現在來講，我們只有天然災害救助的辦法……"],["陳委員超明：你不能說照以往，這個是天然災害啊！你們說不能把獼猴殺了，牠們來吃農民種的水果，不是天然災害是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：天然災害有天然災害的範疇。"],["陳委員超明：這也是天然災害的一種，你把它納入裡面嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：這個我們會來檢討……"],["陳委員超明：我跟你講，花的錢不多，你為什麼不改變？颱風受災叫做天然災害，獼猴從山上跑下來，你們說不能動牠、不能怎樣，又說不算天然災害！天然災害有好幾種，你要幫忙解決，不然這個問題永遠不能解決。"],["陳部長駿季：事後的救助，我們會再來看用什麼樣的方法是適合的，但是最前端的這些源頭，我們還是希望說……"],["陳委員超明：事後發生的事情，希望你們提出一個辦法，一個月內我們好好研討一下，不然我承受不了壓力，每一次下鄉，吃到那個水果，我就不好意思吃，水果被猴子吃了，我是人卻不好意思吃，我跟你講，我是有良心的。"],["主席：好，請部長一個月內到陳委員辦公室去說明。"],["陳委員超明：好，謝謝。"],["主席：中午不休息，我們延長會議時間。","現在請邱志偉召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}