{"error":false,"id":["156803"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":156803,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156803","日期":"2024-11-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-35-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-11-13T11:51:49+08:00","結束時間":"2024-11-13T11:59:30+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:41","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66783280a34c127ee8eb5158c0789247a306ea236d48226e86be2dfc6c4b509e5c9c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"11:51:49 - 11:59:30","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)。（僅詢答）\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：（僅詢答）\n      （一）作業基金：\n                   1、國軍生產及服務作業基金。\n                   2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金。\n                   3、國防醫學院軍事教育基金。\n     （二）資本計畫基金－國軍營舍及設施改建基金。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.06471875,"end":0.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.26284375,"end":1.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.45159375,"end":9.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.71721875,"end":10.662218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.168468750000002,"end":15.640343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.872218750000002,"end":17.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.03659375,"end":20.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.090968750000002,"end":24.617843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.719093750000003,"end":25.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.204093750000002,"end":28.465343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.937843750000003,"end":31.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.367843750000002,"end":32.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.32534375,"end":34.759718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.962218750000005,"end":36.987218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.409093750000004,"end":39.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.197843750000004,"end":39.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.31159375,"end":41.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.16784375,"end":43.095968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.66971875,"end":44.665343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.64409375,"end":48.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.799718750000004,"end":49.525343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.86284375,"end":53.642843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.99721875,"end":57.524093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.743468750000005,"end":59.93721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.713468750000004,"end":61.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.19846875,"end":63.126593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.70034375,"end":66.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.69971875,"end":69.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.16346875,"end":73.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.92659375000001,"end":78.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.56721875000001,"end":78.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.68534375,"end":86.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.83596875,"end":90.81846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.17284375000001,"end":93.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.54784375000001,"end":119.87721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.10346875,"end":103.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.87721875000001,"end":122.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.06659375000001,"end":125.41221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.00284375000001,"end":129.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.45784375,"end":132.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.24221875,"end":134.27159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.18284375000002,"end":136.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.33846875,"end":139.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.87409375000001,"end":141.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.91596875000002,"end":142.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.18159375000002,"end":144.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.44284375,"end":147.43409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.90659375,"end":151.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.99034375000002,"end":152.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.66096875000002,"end":154.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.26409375,"end":158.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.66846875000002,"end":160.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.38971875000001,"end":161.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.75659375,"end":169.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.35471875000002,"end":175.15971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.05409375000002,"end":177.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.58971875,"end":179.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.42471875,"end":183.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.32284375,"end":186.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.20409375,"end":189.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.57096875000002,"end":191.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.52409375000002,"end":194.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.81909375,"end":196.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.35034375,"end":200.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.91096875000002,"end":201.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.04159375,"end":203.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.74159375000002,"end":206.09159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.74971875,"end":211.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.57596875000002,"end":214.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.88346875000002,"end":215.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.92971875,"end":219.27096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部長請Sir 黃委員好"},{"start":9.981,"end":31.746,"text":"部長美國總統當選的川普他宣布了說他會任命退役的陸軍軍官當然絕大多數的媒體大家報導都是他是福斯電視台的主持人但我覺得他比較重要的背景是他其實長期待在軍隊當中"},{"start":33.446,"end":44.419,"text":"右左邊列出來的是他在服役的期間當中曾經得過的勳章、獎項待過阿富汗、待過伊拉克、也待過古巴"},{"start":45.943,"end":62.393,"text":"當然在這樣子的一個軍事背景的背後早上我也看到了部長說對於他出任國防部部長是樂觀其成我們尊重美國的民主程序我們當然也會尊重美國的總統準總統對於他未來國防部長"},{"start":67.748,"end":93.23,"text":"任命的權利當然從台灣的角度來講我們會比較關心的事情是說對台灣所會造成的衝擊所會造成的影響以及台灣跟美國未來在合作上面是不是會因此產生什麼樣子的變化部長對於這位即將要出任美國國防部部長的Hexes有基本的認識嗎"},{"start":94.985,"end":121.787,"text":"我的理解是他還相當的年輕嘛是1980年出生的那有念過這個然後後來到2013年去念哈佛那從軍的經歷對他的當然影響應該是很大那川普在介紹他當然是強調是他非常的重視美國優先這樣子您知道他為什麼不想要待在軍中嗎"},{"start":123.763,"end":150.49,"text":"這個我沒有掌握我跟部長說明一下這個是11月8號的時候他接受一個YouTuber訪問的時候那訪問的內容從他的觀點來講從我們的術語來看他對中國絕對是一個硬派在他眼中看起來中國正在打造一個可以擊敗美國的軍隊"},{"start":153.966,"end":173.551,"text":"當然過去這幾年他可以說是非常的out spoken對於美國的軍隊在過去這幾年當然我必須要先強調我們不宜介入美國共和黨跟民主黨他們之間政黨的競爭但是不同的政策立場的確會影響到台灣"},{"start":176.272,"end":186.353,"text":"在這個專訪旁邊放了一本書那個書我把它放大長成這個樣子叫做《Rule on Warriors》"},{"start":188.226,"end":205.903,"text":"他大概描述了他在軍中服役的過程那以及他所看到對於民主黨的政府可能在對於軍隊讓這一些在服役的軍人沒有得到必要的尊重沒有得到必要的尊重"},{"start":206.804,"end":230.65,"text":"而這樣的心情對於他離開軍隊產生非常大的影響所以某個程度上面來講他的確是川普在實踐美國優先政策的時候去任命他當國防部部長這樣子的一個背景這樣子的一個政策立場老實說令人並不意外但是看了"},{"start":232.597,"end":260.685,"text":"相關對於他這本書所描述心情的報導其實我覺得對我們台灣某個程度上有一點啟發那個啟發是說我們必須要讓在我們軍隊當中冒險犯難為國家出生入職的軍人我們一定整個社會要給他們支持跟尊重這樣子的話才會讓我們這一些國軍的弟兄願意繼續為這個國家"},{"start":262.766,"end":283.455,"text":"來分展那我相信這樣子的立場會繼續的延續到會繼續的延續到他上任國防部部長以後因為對中鷹派這樣子的立場一定會去影響到我們跟美國在軍事合作上面政策的調整那最後一件事情主席我可以再問兩個問題嗎?謝謝就兩個問題非常快的問題好謝謝"},{"start":291.189,"end":313.159,"text":"這個就直接牽涉到了因為financial Times對台灣很熟悉的Catherine Hill放出這樣子的消息部長你有沒有掌握這個消息是誰放的我不清楚但不會是我們的政府人員吧我了解應該不會是我們國防部但是是不是其他政府人員你沒有辦法掌握"},{"start":314.798,"end":328.276,"text":"我沒有辦法回答幫國防部以外的人回答我老實講就是說這種嚴肅的事情我認為希望我希望不是我們政府部門放的"},{"start":329.057,"end":345.809,"text":"因為對整件事情到底是有幫助還是會造成障礙其實還很難說當然總統府在第一時間說目前沒有新一個階段的討論所以總統府的發言算是否認嗎部長您的理解"},{"start":346.933,"end":371.398,"text":"我覺得總統的發言跟我之前的回答是一致的也就是說我們會循台美既有的這一個綿密的制度性的交流的機制來提出我們所要籌購的這一個項目那F35在清單上嗎我沒有辦法對特定的這個任何武器的裝備做下一回答因為我們對任何的這一個個別的武器的裝備我們都會先跟美方進行溝通"},{"start":372.813,"end":380.862,"text":"因為我看到總統府這個發言以後我有點驚訝因為去年在國會的時候其實已經有立委問過了"},{"start":382.319,"end":405.755,"text":"當然前一任的國防部部長回答的比較率直就是我們曾經有提過採購的需求但是美方沒有同意這個是在立法院公報上面記載的內容就你接任國防部部長以後美國就這件事情的態度有改變嗎還是維持去年的前國防部部長在這個委員會裡面回答立委問題的時候沒有同意"},{"start":406.873,"end":424.022,"text":"呃我想呃現在呃呃對我我想我還是同樣的說明我們對於個別的這個項目沒有辦法在呃在這裡做一個公開的一個說明那我們認為符合我們這個提升自我防衛能力的這個部分我們都會跟美方來進行溝通這樣"},{"start":427.344,"end":444.454,"text":"時間的關係我最後只講一件事情強化我國的國防自主防衛能力我相信不分黨派的委員大家都支持那只不過在進行相關事件的時候部長您謹慎的態度我基本上是認同的"},{"start":445.234,"end":457.438,"text":"因此我也希望這一次financial ties所出現的那個報導不是我們政府人員放話因為我覺得這樣對整件事到底是主力還是助力恐怕會是一個很大的問號"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":626,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時51分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：是，黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。美國總統當選人川普宣布會任命退役陸軍軍官出任國防部長，當然絕大多數媒體報導的都是他是福斯電視臺的主持人，但我覺得他比較重要的背景其實是長期待在軍隊當中，投影片右手邊列出來的是他在服役期間曾經得過的勳章、獎項，他待過阿富汗、待過伊拉克，也待過古巴。在這樣的軍事背景背後，早上我也看到部長說對於他出任國防部部長樂觀其成。我們尊重美國的民主程序，當然也會尊重美國準總統對於他未來國防部長任命的權力。","當然，從臺灣的角度來講，我們會比較關心的事情是對臺灣會造成的衝擊、會造成的影響，以及臺灣跟美國未來在合作上面是不是會因此產生什麼樣的變化。部長對於這位即將出任美國國防部部長的Hegseth有基本的認識嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我的理解是他還相當年輕嘛！是1980年出生的，念過……"],["黃委員國昌：Princeton。"],["顧部長立雄：Princeton，後來2013年好像去念哈佛。當然從軍經歷對他的影響應該很大，川普在介紹他時，強調他非常重視美國優先。"],["黃委員國昌：您知道他為什麼不想再待在軍中嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：這個我沒有掌握。"],["黃委員國昌：我跟部長說明一下，這是11月8日他接受一位YouTuber訪問時的訪問內容。從他的觀點來講、從我們的術語來看，他對中國絕對是一個鷹派，在他眼中看起來，中國正在打造一個可以擊敗美國的軍隊。當然，過去這幾年，他可以說非常outspoken，對於美國的軍隊在過去這幾年……當然我必須先強調，我們不宜介入美國共和黨跟民主黨之間的政黨競爭，但是不同的政策立場的確會影響臺灣。在這個專訪場地旁邊放了一本書，我把那本書放大後是長這個樣子，書名叫做「The War on 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