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院長好我今天要談一下有關於陸配身分證從6年取得可以變成4年的問題"},{"start":1854.691,"end":1878.004,"text":"國民黨團提出這個法案的本意是想要減少我們這個社會當中的歧視特別是陸配的小朋友新二代他們在跟其他外籍配偶的小孩聊天的時候就會感覺到極度的不平等別人的媽媽要取得身份只要4年的時間但是他們的媽媽取得身份要6年的時間"},{"start":1879.264,"end":1906.831,"text":"他們會覺得說天下的媽媽不是都是一樣的嗎為什麼我媽要6年別人媽媽只要4年這就產生一個非常明顯的不平等那結果我發現最近民進黨對於這個法案的反對反而造成更大的歧視特別是行政官員的發言非常的不得體我覺得非常不得體像昨天我看到行政院官員的發言是說因為陸配是來自於對立國"},{"start":1908.351,"end":1929.559,"text":"所以沒有不平等的問題。什麼時候我們國家取得身份是看你跟別的國家的關係好不好來決定他的取得身份證的年限。那如果按照這樣的邏輯是不是應該改成邦交國,如果我們台灣人取得是邦交國的配偶,你的年限是不是更要縮短,因為關係特別好。"},{"start":1930.279,"end":1940.347,"text":"美國民進黨現在跟美國關係非常好所以年限是不是要改成兩年日本也兩年其他國家關係不好的四年更差一點六年是不是要變成這樣"},{"start":1941.724,"end":1960.679,"text":"所以官員講出這種話簡直荒腔走板而且更加造成了這些陸配小孩心中的那種剝削感哦原來我媽媽是來自於對立國所以他要6年那其他小朋友會怎麼看待陸配的小孩你媽是來自於對立國啊活該6年啊"},{"start":1961.46,"end":1988.86,"text":"所以拜託一下我們的行政官員你們講的話一句話每一個動作都在都會對這些造成很大的影響所以不要造成更大的歧視我們又看到民進黨立委說如果讓陸配取得身份證年限縮短大陸會洗人口就跟香港一樣派個200萬人去讓香港整個人口質變不要笑死人了台灣是結婚欸是結婚才能取得婚"},{"start":1989.58,"end":2015.272,"text":"所以現在是怎麼樣?中國大陸那邊解放軍下面成立一個美人軍團是不是?射誘台灣100萬人,把這些陸配架過來,然後顛覆台灣喔?這種話都講得出來我真是笑掉我大牙了。然後講說來自於對岸的這些配偶有國安問題,拜託你不要誅心亂好不好?你會不會害台灣不是看你來自於哪裡啦,是看你這個人怎麼樣啊?"},{"start":2016.152,"end":2017.452,"text":"謝謝葉委員原汁的發言接下來我們請登記第二號陳委員金威發言"},{"start":2049.895,"end":2076.453,"text":"院長,各位行政首長,還有立院的同事以及媒體朋友,大家早安。今天要聊的是從去年底以來呢,各大食安的事件席捲全台,包括大家知道的進口蛋標示有誤,豬肉席產地,台湯安心豬含瘦肉精西部特羅。再到近期,其實很多家長都很恐慌的,日本進口的草莓,居然驗出台灣不得驗出的農藥。"},{"start":2077.794,"end":2104.694,"text":"還有小朋友很喜歡吃的零食蝦味仙等等的含了這個致命的調味料蘇丹紅食安事件已經流到許多的下游廠商。為了守護食安大家知道說這週提出行政院進行食安專報但是送來的報告卻僅僅只有9頁只字未提大家很關心的蘇丹紅事件檢討的對象甚至也不是政府"},{"start":2105.194,"end":2131.741,"text":"而是8年前的馬英九政府更誇張的是居然在裡面讀到了小籠包、珍珠奶茶深受國際友人的喜愛這根本就是一本大內宣啊自誇已經落實了食安待人尋味的是去年台灣外銷了過期珍珠粉源到日本達27噸卻在食安報告裡面隻字未提"},{"start":2133.516,"end":2155.096,"text":"為了落實食安,蔡政府跨部會花了大錢成立食品雲資料庫。但是在109年監察院就糾正了食品雲,認為這個預警的效果不彰而且欠缺許多食品業者的資訊。那為何到今天食品雲都依然沒有發揮功效?難道對於監察院的檢討敷衍帶過了事嗎?"},{"start":2158.359,"end":2184.49,"text":"近期我們政府在處理食安問題上少了很多關心民眾的層面也沒有溫柔多的都是政治的口水跟鬥爭守護食安本來就是仰賴我們全國人民的團結跟自律好比過去幾年總是誇讚自己防疫很成功的蔡政府其實根本就是國人為國犧牲而不是阻擋疫苗的蔡政府"},{"start":2185.43,"end":2214.549,"text":"所以本席在這邊認為我們不能把食安當成政治口水戰我們應該仔細的去檢討食安的流程實質的追本溯源而且利用現在的科技強化食品雲資料庫的建置並且全方位的聯繫能力最後呼籲我們民進黨政府不要再將責任丟到地方少一點政治口水多一點對我們民眾的承擔還有關心吧謝謝大家"},{"start":2217.204,"end":2224.42,"text":"謝謝陳委員的敬畏的發言接下來我們請登記第三位丁委員學中發言"},{"start":2235.695,"end":2242.438,"text":"韓院長以及我們各部會所長。今天分析非來向國體公司討決的功德。我們分臨國體開通到這時已經幾年。每一年坐車的人數都在上升。每日處理站人數從1896年開始5591人。上升到1812年已經增高到4579人。"},{"start":2262.287,"end":2262.487,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2278.374,"end":2286.879,"text":"到此時,我們大阪地區因為沒有車票必須要到嘉義路線的鄉親。我們的車關飛去法蘭無卡車,法蘭的車車又是直達車。我們本領人要到萬安站到我們這個停車的區間車馬。現在每天早上5點10分,要坐車的時候,常常沒有車票的單位。"},{"start":2307.532,"end":2328.86,"text":"告立問題的更加嚴重,民眾早就動不動了,請問為什麼婚姻人要回來處理,那困難。：要跟大家報告,婚姻不是次等公民,溝通是機關性外的一個管理,不能在有這個程序的一個差別,在這要合約。"},{"start":2330.36,"end":2347.324,"text":"若提的公信,不要忽視婚姻人、受賊人的一個訴求。若提婚姻事章,要依實的運用,盡加關注。婚姻不是自動公允。若提事章,儘管事在必行。感謝大家。謝謝丁委員學中的發言。接下來我們請登記第4號吳委員終限發言。"},{"start":2371.738,"end":2394.046,"text":"韓院長、各位立院同仁、前院長以及各部會首長先進、在場媒體記者大家好。大家早安。我想要今天跟大家討論的一個議題是有關公投的議題。憲法第17條有賦予我們人民參政權,我們有選舉罷免、創制複決。那既然這是憲法賦予人民的權利,"},{"start":2396.167,"end":2413.852,"text":"公民投票他的理念是創制跟複決的概念所以政府他對於一些重大比較爭議性的事件通常他可能會利用公投的方式來讓全民能夠表達對於這個議題的想法是什麼"},{"start":2414.679,"end":2433.504,"text":"所以政府該做的責任應該是把每個議題透明的所有資訊告訴人民而不是去誘導人民該在公投上面怎麼投所以從2004年我們的公投法過了之後到現在其實已經經歷過非常多次的公投"},{"start":2434.644,"end":2459.65,"text":"我們回過頭去看在民國110年的時候的四大公投我們舉一個例子在核四到底要不要商轉的部分在那個議題裡面政府的立場他不希望使用核能所以他在所有的宣傳上面包括行政院的公投意見書都大肆的宣傳使用核能的壞處以及不使用核能的好處"},{"start":2460.47,"end":2488.256,"text":"但是我必須告訴大家政府該做的是告訴人民事實是什麼告訴人民資訊是什麼而不是誘導人民該怎麼去投公投票所以這個時候政府應該負的責任是告訴人民核能使用的好處有什麼壞處有什麼以及不使用核能的好處有什麼壞處有什麼公平一致的告訴人民而不是單方面的告訴人民該怎麼投"},{"start":2489.036,"end":2508.585,"text":"所以在上一次的四大公投甚至發生了你怎麼投如果你不這麼投你就是中共同路人甚至從總統一路以下的行政官員都這麼做但是這不是我們公投的真正意義公投其實是一個還政於民主權在民的憲法基本精神"},{"start":2509.185,"end":2532.372,"text":"所以我希望將來不管哪一個政黨執政都一定要切記一件事情公投的意義是政府在高度爭議的事件中必須去傾聽人民的想法人民的意見而不是用政府執政者的觀念去誘導人民該怎麼投票如果是誘導人民該怎麼投票其實政府直接去做這個行政行為就可以"},{"start":2532.972,"end":2561.44,"text":"而不是說他不想擔負這個政治責任所以叫誘導的方式用人民來去誘導成政府要做的那個想法好將來政策錯誤的話這個是全民的意志不是我執政黨的意志我希望將來的任何一個政黨執政都能這麼做好謝謝謝謝吳委員中線的發言接下來我們請登記第5號張委員嘉峻的發言"},{"start":2576.755,"end":2597.72,"text":"院長各位行政首長還有各位同事大家早安那16年前我就站在這裡向劉兆璇院長跟接下來的吳敦義院長爭取雲林高鐵涉戰那期間包括毛志國部長還有殷琦董事長等等進行了十數次的會談"},{"start":2599.101,"end":2613.797,"text":"最後以行政院為高鐵作保藉心還救一年省下一百多億的利息才成功爭取了雲林高鐵涉戰那當然彰化跟苗栗也跟著受益。"},{"start":2617.097,"end":2634.386,"text":"從2016年通車以來幾乎每個月雲林站都維持著20萬以上的進出站量那近年來每個月更將近30萬這個數字遠高於同期啟用的彰化站與苗栗站那雲林與嘉義的運載量"},{"start":2637.227,"end":2652.756,"text":"﹗"},{"start":2652.876,"end":2672.145,"text":"每週末跟假日車票就供不應求。張立善縣長上任之後就不斷為鄉親爭取高鐵增班,到目前為止只增加了10個班次,遠遠無法滿足民眾的需求。那面對雲林高鐵增班的需求,"},{"start":2673.072,"end":2699.51,"text":"高鐵公司常常說班次是依照市場需求來規劃的其實這樣說不盡公平這是一個蛋生雞雞生蛋的問題班次不夠導致民眾買不到票只能轉往嘉義站、彰化站或者是台中站來搭乘民眾不但多花時間還要多花錢如果以每班次運載量來計算"},{"start":2700.811,"end":2729.845,"text":"根據1月份的資料雲林站每個班次所帶來的進出站旅客就高達352人同期間呢嘉義站只有284人臺北的板橋站也更僅有318人所以雲林站的載客量真的不差民眾假日買不到票更是不爭的事實我們只希望高鐵公司跟中央官員能夠重視這個需求"},{"start":2730.745,"end":2754.353,"text":"讓返鄉想要看看父母的妻兒的路讓我們的鄉親更方便更簡單一些那也希望高鐵公司能夠聽到雲林人的聲音讓我們回家包括通勤、孝親能夠更加的easy在這裡本席強烈爭取高鐵增班在這裡感謝大家謝謝"},{"start":2757.648,"end":2762.722,"text":"謝謝張委員、嘉峻的發言。接下來我們請登記第6號徐委員、宇珍發言。"},{"start":2785.188,"end":2795.503,"text":"主席、陳院長、其各位部會官員、還有我在座的各位立法院的同仁以及各位媒體朋友,大家早。宇甄今天所要探討的是電價調漲的問題。"},{"start":2797.631,"end":2818.541,"text":"蔡政府從今年4月將全面的調漲電價,而且這次不是只有工業用電要大幅的調升,連長期動漲的330度以下的民生用電也會不分級距的全面調漲,而這次的電價的調漲也勢必會造成物價的再次上揚。"},{"start":2820.049,"end":2844.096,"text":"而我們勞工的薪資相對成長的卻非常的緩慢。電價大幅的調漲對於民生經濟的影響甚至蔡政府和賴政府應該要審慎的面對並檢討錯誤的能源政策。在2016年蔡英文擔任總統前臺電上有近800億的盈餘可以成立電價穩定基金。"},{"start":2846.462,"end":2871.168,"text":"因此總統候選人蔡英文才敢在選舉的時候高喊十年電價不大漲而時任副總統候選人的也就是我們現在的行政院長陳建仁也曾說若能充分的利用電能源再加上節能減淡的政策臺灣電力的供應是足夠的漲價的機率不會太大"},{"start":2872.128,"end":2894.04,"text":"但是到了2018年的8月蔡英文總統還批評說國民黨四處說會缺電會漲電價那都只是唱衰臺灣但是事實證明國民黨歷年來對蔡政府的建言都是對的現在是民生用電全面漲百工百業炒雷彈"},{"start":2895.416,"end":2907.853,"text":"過去幾年,美國商會跟歐洲商會均對我國提出示警,建議蔡政府應該確保可長久、價格具競爭力的能源,強調這對我國的經濟成長非常重要。"},{"start":2912.395,"end":2940.044,"text":"蔡英文總政府的錯誤的能源政策不僅造成工業民生用電不穩還讓臺電虧損連連負債已經高達3826億人民必須承擔更高的用電價格蔡政府不先檢討自己錯誤的能源政策卻要大漲電價以價值量限制人民的用電變相的在懲罰人民實在是讓人看不下去"},{"start":2941.562,"end":2967.29,"text":"四月的電價調漲後上游工業用電的成本增加必然會轉嫁到中下游的產業對CPI消費者物價指數勢必會造成極大的壓力只要電價一調漲餐廳、小吃店也被迫要能夠漲價本席要在此呼籲蔡政府大幅調漲電價以前應該要先提出相關的配套措施立即檢討錯誤的能源政策謝謝"},{"start":2970.128,"end":2994.437,"text":"謝謝許委員與真的發言接下來我們請登記第7號吳委員春晨發言好委員我們陳院長"},{"start":3000.838,"end":3028.071,"text":"今天我要來講一個主題叫做新人類壯世代媒體稱50歲叫半白老翁60歲叫花甲老翁那我要請問在座我們這個席間在座的超過60歲的有多少人我想應該有八成難道我們的內閣叫花甲內閣嗎"},{"start":3032.127,"end":3052.694,"text":"這當然是一個錯誤的觀念但是我們現在政府對於高齡政策的思維邏輯就是這個邏輯前一陣子本席到大學演講我告訴大學的董事長說明年畢業的孩子五個人當中我們的社會五個人就一個人超過65歲"},{"start":3055.008,"end":3082.099,"text":"當這個孩子35歲的時候就是2034年臺灣有一半的人要超過50歲意思就是說這個孩子一輩子都要在高領社會他要賺錢要賺誰的錢高領者的錢他要選總統要誰的票高領者的票董事長聽了以後嚇一跳就問旁邊的校長說我們有在告訴孩子這件事情嗎校長說"},{"start":3083.649,"end":3109.243,"text":"我們都告訴孩子我們永遠是一個青春無敵的社會更恐怖的是本席看到我們現在各部會所規劃的政策幾乎都跟這位校長的想像沒有差異去年2023年戰後嬰兒草全部進入了60歲目前60歲上人口台灣已經高達到500萬人口"},{"start":3113.697,"end":3133.671,"text":"媒體稱這個叫做引髮海嘯,面對這個龐大的高齡大浪潮,各部會幾乎都視而不見,不敢面對。政府的政策只有一招,就是大撒幣。但是,今年的社福預算已經超過了8000億,佔政府預算的28%。"},{"start":3137.513,"end":3159.66,"text":"但是沒有一個社會可以照顧超過一半人口的社會。繼續這樣大撒幣下去,台灣就沒有希望,年輕人就沒有希望了。其實戰後嬰兒草的這一批人,也就是現在60到80歲的這一間,其實他們非常的強壯。我們不要再稱他們叫老人,也不要稱他們叫銀髮族。"},{"start":3161.021,"end":3163.303,"text":"謝謝吳委員春晨的發言。接下來我們請登記第8號嚴委員寬恒的發言。"},{"start":3208.815,"end":3215.363,"text":"立法院韓院長以及各位列席官員,中科擴建二期交通用電配套準備好了嗎?"},{"start":3216.891,"end":3243.712,"text":"中部科學園區成立目前有238家廠商將近5萬5千個工作機會就業人口每逢上下班高峰時間車滿為患把臨近的東大路、中科路、西屯路塞得水洩不通。中科西南向延伸向上路特5號道路雖然已經通車有效舒緩都會原路到臺灣大道這段的車流但是作為銜接"},{"start":3244.913,"end":3272.489,"text":"重要道路的西屯路卻成為交通瓶頸。台中科學園區擴建二期目前已經通過都市計畫變更,預計今年6月就可以交地給台積電設廠。台積電未來也會在中科繼續擴廠。中科二期面積89.75公頃,未來可能創造近5000個就業工作機會。目前,台中園區就業人數加上"},{"start":3273.183,"end":3298.695,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":3299.324,"end":3323.165,"text":"發展半導體產業和精密科學是我國的發展目標但本席認為不論原料、產品、專業人力都和交通息息相關所以必須把周邊的交通納入整體規劃而不是一昧的開闢產業園區卻疏忽了交通的重要環節此外用水用電以及環境污染本席和台中人一樣擔心"},{"start":3324.662,"end":3346.277,"text":"中科園區擴敞後用水用電會大增水利署針對中部地區已經進行多項的水利工程是為了解決用水的問題現在台積電更是用水大戶水利署配套措施做好了嗎用電部分根據數據統計在2025年台積電用電比例會佔全台12.5%我們都知道台積電屬於24小時連續製程全天候不停機"},{"start":3356.382,"end":3379.732,"text":"本席認為臨近中科的臺中火力發電廠藉此又要負擔起臺積電這個用電大戶的發電量。目前中火有10部燃煤機組。未來在天然氣發電上線後,當初臺電承諾的一部天然氣換兩部燃煤可能面臨跳票的危機。本席的擔憂正和所有臺中人一樣。"},{"start":3381.053,"end":3398.002,"text":"臺中市民應該有知的權利本席希望中央政府能夠就上述問題主動向民眾揭露而不是最後又是用臺中人的健康換取臺灣的未來。謝謝委員寬恆的發言接下來我們請登記第9號羅委員志強的發言"},{"start":3418.032,"end":3433.939,"text":"主席然後我們行政院的官員們大家好首先我要問第一個問題陳建倫院長請問蘇丹紅是系統性食安問題還是個案問題蘇丹紅是系統性食安問題還是個案問題我們發現了蘇丹紅的辣椒粉產品越來越多流竄全台"},{"start":3448.875,"end":3470.851,"text":"從上游我們邊境把關的檢驗實際上半年前就驗出來直到事情鬧大了才說要逐漸檢驗我們的邊境管理就是鬆散形成了破口然後延伸到全國性的食安問題人心惶惶"},{"start":3475.54,"end":3499.945,"text":"我要問我們的院長請問你這是系統性的食安問題還是只是個案為什麼要從這個地方來切入我要跟陳建仁院長說你上次做的食安報告正好應驗了一句話還馬英九食安的"},{"start":3501.232,"end":3525.501,"text":"就是陳建仁還馬英九食安公道的就是陳建仁陳建仁在院長在要做食安報告之前大張旗鼓的到處宣揚說我們會特別來比較馬英九執政跟蔡英文執政對食安的成效我本來是萬分期待"},{"start":3526.923,"end":3554.409,"text":"可是我發現從頭到尾你跟大家講你的食安做得比較好只有一個論點就是你的系統性食安事件只有兩件馬英九政府系統性食安事件有七件所以馬政府是蔡政府的3.5倍但好像是正在蘇丹紅全台灣在恐慌的時候你的食安報告竟然沒有蘇丹紅在裡面"},{"start":3556.071,"end":3582.396,"text":"蘇丹紅明顯就系統性食安問題你就可以直接無視蘇丹紅把蘇丹紅的這個食安事件從報告當中踢出去照你這種算法你乾脆把自己算零件把政府算500件好了你自己去定義系統性食安問題你當一個所謂的鴕鳥頭埋進沙子裡就看不見自己的食安問題"},{"start":3584.008,"end":3602.522,"text":"而當我在質詢你我問你說食品中毒人數最高的是誰?蔡英文每年將近5000多人馬政府平均每年少400人然後你可以說食品不是食安問題現在請你回答大家蘇丹紅到底"},{"start":3607.867,"end":3608.627,"text":"主席各位在場的委員"},{"start":3630.051,"end":3641.87,"text":"跟行政官員我今天要談的主題是收出氧的問題我個人認為臺人有一些觀念需要做一些修正很多人把不運"},{"start":3643.035,"end":3643.135,"text":"主席"},{"start":3667.899,"end":3691.269,"text":"其次,收出養的背景我們都不能否認。它背後有一些非正面的因素,包括經濟因素、家變因素,甚至是十幾歲生出的孩子可能需要出養。還有有一些我了解的,包括我朋友收養的孩子,是因為母親被強暴而後來出養的孩子。"},{"start":3691.989,"end":3716.109,"text":"所以這個孩子整個成長過程當中未來要面對相當多的問題包括原生家庭他的因素是不是改變了他是不是有不同的想法包括收養家庭他自己要面臨的一些怎麼樣來帶所有的所謂的非血人的孩子還有孩子本身要面對很多朋友或是同學們當中的一些疑問"},{"start":3717.21,"end":3731.662,"text":"那麼收養問題我個人認為比起我們現在人工生殖法做的捐精捐卵或是我們現在努力要加入的這個代孕是複雜多了因為收養孩子代表一個"},{"start":3732.322,"end":3732.442,"text":"﹚一、三、4、5、6、7、8、9、10﹚"},{"start":3756.682,"end":3756.862,"text":"臨時提案會議"},{"start":3772.879,"end":3773.399,"text":"謝謝陳委員召之的發言"},{"start":3802.401,"end":3806.804,"text":"登記國是論壇發言的委員均已發言完畢,現在休息。"},{"start":5412.647,"end":5439.763,"text":"請秘書長報告出席人數報告院會出席委員73人已足法定人數現在開會報告院會本次會議議事日程因程序委員會尚未組成依例由秘書長編寧草案送院會處理現在進行確認議事日程請問院會本次會議議事日程照原編寧議程草案通過有無異議"},{"start":5441.983,"end":5462.074,"text":"無異議通過本次會議議事日程確定。現在進行報告事項。請秘書長宣讀第一會期第二次會議議事錄。宣讀立法院第11屆第一會期第二次會議議事錄時間中華民國一百三年二月二、三日上午九時三分至九時35分"},{"start":5464.795,"end":5481.855,"text":"時時四分至十二十三分下午二十三十分至五十二十五分二月二十七日上午九十一分至十一時四十五分下午二十三十分至五十三三分地點本院議場出席委員吳委員村長等一百十三人內席官員"},{"start":5483.396,"end":5503.174,"text":"行政院院長陳建仁等39人,主席院長韓國瑜,報告事項第一案,宣讀本院第11屆第1會期第一次會議事路,決定,確定第二至37案,第三十九至八十九案均決定交互相關委員會審查處理或交互相關委員會。"},{"start":5504.375,"end":5510.482,"text":"第38案決定交黨團協商會議處理。第90至94案、第139案、第147案為交易及文化委員會等所提出報告案。第90至99案均決定展延審期期限。"},{"start":5524.298,"end":5552.31,"text":"第140至146案為行政院韓宋本院委員提案之原處情形。行政院院長提出有關民進黨政府執政八年臺灣食安問題總檢討專案報告並答覆質詢。決定一、將個人發言紀錄及書面質詢韓宋行政院請就位答覆部分予以書面答覆。二、以提出之書面質詢尚未登載公報則一律補刊。"},{"start":5554.896,"end":5579.443,"text":"．對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢．決定．下次會議繼續進行施政方針及施政報告之質詢．其他事項．一、113年2月20日朝野黨團協商結論一項．二、本市會議一事事程除一協商結論修正通過外．其以均照原編擬議程草案通過．三、主席宣告一項．宣讀完畢"},{"start":5581.892,"end":5611.178,"text":"報告委員會,針對第一會期第二次會議一事錄,並無委員或黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處,作以下之決定。第一會期第二次會議一事錄確定。請宣讀第二案。第二案,本院委員賴世寶的二十五人離居,預算法第八十三條條維修政策案情緒一案,依視處意見,您請委員會交財政委員會審查。宣讀完畢。報告委員會,有異議,無異議,通過。"},{"start":5613.516,"end":5640.649,"text":"下一案。第三案。本院委員賴世寶的23人離聚。公共債務法增定第5條之1條文草案請水案。議事處意見你請院會交財政委員會審查。宣讀完畢。報告院會有異議無異議通過下一案。第四案。本院委員賴世寶的24人離聚。公務員員退休之前撫恤法第37條檔維修證草案請水案。議事處意見你請院會交司法及法治委員會審查。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":5642.199,"end":5646.902,"text":"五議通過下一案五議通過下一案五議通過下一案"},{"start":5671.957,"end":5699.504,"text":"五一通過下議案。第七案,本院委員柯志恩等17人鄰居國民體育法第五條條維修政策案請申案,一時初見年輕運會教教育及文化委員會審查,宣布完畢。五一通過下議案。第八案,本院委員柯志恩等16人鄰居大學法第35條條維修政策案請申案,一時初見年輕運會教教育及文化委員會審查,宣布完畢。五一通過下議案。"},{"start":5700.114,"end":5726.918,"text":"第九案 本院委員柯志恩等17人離聚,中小企業發生條例第36條至2條維修正常案情緒一案,依時促進理情和交通經濟委員會審查,宣布外閉。無異議通過下一案。第十案 本院委員范雲等16人離聚,蘇維新聞發生與民主任性法常案情緒一案,依時促進理情和交通教育及文化兩委員會審查,宣布外閉。無異議通過下一案。"},{"start":5727.506,"end":5753.175,"text":"第11案本院委員分與等17人離聚,無異議以致保存條例草案請審案,依次促進立行院會教教育及文化委員會審查,宣言完畢。無異議通過下一案第12案本院委員分與等17人離聚,學生輔導法部分條文修正草案請審案,依次促進立行院會教教育及文化委員會審查,宣言完畢。無異議通過下一案"},{"start":5753.732,"end":5779.66,"text":"第13案,本院委員範圍的16人鄰居,學校公參法草案請水案,議事促進例行會交交易局文化委員會審查,宣讀完畢。無異議通過下一案。第14案,本院委員範圍的17人鄰居,學生障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案請水案,議事促進例行會交校外福利及外交環境委員會審查,宣讀完畢。無異議通過下一案。"},{"start":5780.216,"end":5807.572,"text":"第15案本月委員范雲等17人鄰居性別平等工作法部分條維修戰場請水案。依次處意見您請會交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。宣讀完畢五一通過下一案第16案本月委員范雲等17人鄰居就業保險法第11條及第19條2條維修戰場請水案。依次處意見您請會交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。宣讀完畢五一通過下一案"},{"start":5808.103,"end":5830.513,"text":"第17案 本院委員範圍短17年連續《社會救助法》部分條維修正常案請審一案。依次處意見臨時會交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。宣讀完畢。依次處意見臨時會交社會福利及衛生環境司法及法治兩委員會審查。宣讀完畢。依次處意見臨時會交社會福利及衛生環境司法及法治兩委員會審查。宣讀完畢。依次處意見臨時會交社會福利及衛生環境司法及法治兩委員會審查。宣讀完畢"},{"start":5834.38,"end":5847.963,"text":"第19案 本院委員範圍等19人鄰居,民法部分條文修正草案請審議案。依次促進,您請獲交司法及法政委員會審查,宣言完畢。依次促進,您請獲交司法及法政委員會審查,宣言完畢。依次促進,您請獲交司法及法政委員會審查,宣言完畢"},{"start":5859.977,"end":5882.385,"text":"無異議通過下一案。第21案委員委員王鴻圍等24人凝聚,國軍老舊捐存改進條例第3條條維修認財案請審議案。議事處意見立行會交外交及國防委員會審查,宣言完畢。無異議通過下一案。第22案委員委員賴月龍等16人凝聚,財政收支劃分法第16條之1條維修認財案請審議案。議事處意見立行會交財政委員會審查,宣言完畢。"},{"start":5887.625,"end":5912.554,"text":"無異議通過下一案。第23案 委員委員賴瑞隆的16人鄰居公平交易法不犯條文修正常請審議案。議事處意見你請會將經濟委員會審查。 宣告事項跟院會報告報告事項第23案現在有國民黨團提議退回程序委員會重新提出請問院會有異議"},{"start":5914.793,"end":5940.939,"text":"無異議通過。我們本案退回程序委員會重新提出下一案。第24案本院委員賴月龍等17人領據《森林法》部分條文修正草案請審議案。議事處理屆你請會將經濟委員會審查。宣告完畢。報告委員會有異議。無異議通過。下一案。第25案本院委員賴月龍等17人領據《能源管理法》部分條文修正草案請審議案。議事處理屆你請會將經濟委員會審查。宣告完畢。"},{"start":5945.728,"end":5972.825,"text":"報告委員會有異議,無異議通過下議案。第26案本院委員賴若龍等16名人聯聚,野生動物保育法不分條文修正草案請審議案。議事處意見立請院會交經濟委員會審查。宣讀完畢。報告委員會有異議,無異議通過下議案。第27案本院委員賴若龍等16名人聯聚,立法委員行為法不分條文修正草案請審議案。議事處意見立請院會交司法及法制委員會審查。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":5974.076,"end":5994.913,"text":"報告委員會有無異議．無異議．通過下一案。第28案本院委員賴瑞隆等16人聯聚立法院各委員會組織法第4條、第9條及第22條條維修擅長及審議案。依次推薦立即獲交司法及法制委員會審查。宣讀完畢。有無異議．無異議．通過下一案。"},{"start":5995.472,"end":6022.114,"text":"第29案本院委員賴岳龍等16人凝聚立法院議事規則第9條第22條及第50條條文修正草案請審議案。議事處理屆理情會交司法及法制委員會審查。宣讀完畢。無異議通過下議案。第30案本院委員賴岳龍等16人凝聚民法第1085條條文修正草案請審議案。議事處理屆理情會交司法及法制委員會審查。宣讀完畢。無異議通過下議案。"},{"start":6022.642,"end":6046.825,"text":"第31案本院委員賴岳龍等16人理據中央行政基本組織基準法第32條條維修正常情緒案一時出現離情壞交司法及法律委員會審查宣言完畢五一通過下一案第32案本院委員賴岳龍等16人理據行政院組織法第9條條維修正常情緒案一時出現離情壞交司法及法律委員會審查宣言完畢"},{"start":6048.018,"end":6074.432,"text":"無異議通過下一案．第33案本院委員賴月龍等17人離聚政府財務法第八十七條條文修正草案請審一案．一事促進立行外交司法及法治經濟兩委員會審查．宣布外避無異議通過下一案．第34案本院委員賴月龍等16人離聚政府財務法第八十七條條文修正草案請審一案．一事促進立行外交交通委員會審查．宣布外避無異議通過下一案．"},{"start":6074.98,"end":6098.769,"text":"第三十五案本院委員賴月龍等16個人理據建築法第九十一條條維修政策案請審議案。依次促見您請換交內政委或審查。宣讀完畢。第三十六案本院委員賴月龍等16個人理據噪音管制法第26條及第28條條維修政策案請審議案。依次促見您請換交社會福利及衛生環境委或審查。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6099.557,"end":6102.879,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":6127.421,"end":6130.924,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":6156.411,"end":6176.47,"text":"第41案 本院委員陳冠廷的十九人領據《農產品市場交易法》第35條條文修正草案請選一案,議事處意見,立行會交經濟委員會審查,宣讀完畢。無異議通過下一案第42案 本院委員陳冠廷的十八人領據《森林法》增令第八條之一條文草案請選一案,議事處意見,立行會交經濟委員會審查,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6180.236,"end":6186.58,"text":"五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案五、一、通過下一案"},{"start":6210.083,"end":6213.345,"text":"五一通過下議案五一通過下議案五一通過下議案"},{"start":6237.622,"end":6264.298,"text":"第四十七案本院委員楊瓊英等20人離聚海洋保育法草案請選一案。依次處理件您請回交內政委員會審查。宣言完畢。無異議通過下一案。第四十八案本院委員楊瓊英等20人離聚地方民意代表費用之際及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文書證草案請選一案。依次處理件您請回交內政委員會審查。宣言完畢。無異議通過下一案。"},{"start":6264.892,"end":6288.343,"text":"第四十一、九、二﹐本院委員楊崇英等20人聯聚﹐農會法部分條文修正草案請水恩﹐依次促見,依請會交經濟委員會審查﹐宣讀完畢。無異議﹐通過下一案。第五十二﹐本院委員楊崇英等20人聯聚﹐接避者保護法草案請水恩﹐依次促見,依請會交司法及法治委員會審查﹐宣讀完畢。無異議﹐通過下一案。"},{"start":6289.09,"end":6289.911,"text":"第51案．第52案．第52案．"},{"start":6314.349,"end":6343.206,"text":"第53案,本院委員郭育晴等19人擬拒中央領執及高齡者就業促進法第26條條文修正草案請審議案。依事處意見,擬請和交社會福利及外相環境委員會審查。宣告完畢。無異議通過下一案。第54案,本院委員郭育晴等19人擬拒勞動基準法第42條第77條及第79條條文修正草案請審議案。依事處意見,擬請和交社會福利及外相環境委員會審查。宣告完畢。"},{"start":6344.707,"end":6349.371,"text":"五一議通過下一案五一議通過下一案五一議通過下一案"},{"start":6373.683,"end":6376.964,"text":"五一議通過下一案五一議通過下一案五一議通過下一案"},{"start":6400.663,"end":6423.752,"text":"第59案 本院委員陳慶輝等19人聯聚全民健康保險法第5條談維修正常請選一案。一事出現,您請回交生物福利及衛生環境委員會審查,宣讀完畢。第60案 本院委員陳慶輝等16人聯聚癌症防治法第16條談維修正常請選一案。一事出現,您請回交生物福利及衛生環境委員會審查,宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6424.892,"end":6451.033,"text":"無異議通過下一案。第61案本院委員陳慶輝等16人聯聚公益勸募條例第6條條文修正草案請審議案。依次處理件依請會交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查宣讀完畢。無異議通過下一案。第62案本院委員陳慶輝等16人聯聚人工生殖法部分條文修正草案請審議案。依次處理件依請會交社會福利及衛生環境司法及法制兩委員會審查宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6452.467,"end":6476.246,"text":"無異議通過下議案。第六十三案本院委員陳慶輝等18人聯聚教育部組織法第2條條文修正草案請審議案。議事處理屆臨時會交司法及法治教育及文化兩委員會審查。宣告完畢。無異議通過下議案。第六十四案本院臺灣民眾黨團聯聚將主行及非將主行營業稅法第2條條文修正草案請審議案。議事處理屆臨時會交財政委員會審查。宣告完畢。"},{"start":6479.656,"end":6495.941,"text":"五一一通過下一案。第六十五案。委員臺灣民眾黨老團理據法院組織法第六十六條之五條文及第七十三條副表修正草案侵水案。侵水案。侵水案。侵水案。五一一通過下一案。五一一通過下一案。"},{"start":6509.67,"end":6535.638,"text":"第67案本院委員蔡其昌等20人鄰居實現衛生法第7條條文修正常案請審議案。依次促見你請回交教育及文化委員會審查。宣讀完畢無異議通過下一案第68案本院委員蔡其昌等20人鄰居國有財政法第52條之2條文修正常案請審議案依次促見你請回交財政委員會審查。宣讀完畢無異議通過下一案"},{"start":6536.172,"end":6562.91,"text":"第69案 本院委員在其中的20人聯聚,大眾及立法部份條文修正草案行水案,依次促進,依請回交交通委員會審查。宣告完畢。無異議通過下一案第70案 本院委員和新選的17人聯聚,國民聯經法第54條之一及第55條條文修正草案行水案,依次促進,依請回交生物福利及衛生環境委員會審查。宣告完畢。無異議通過下一案"},{"start":6563.53,"end":6566.271,"text":"第七十一案．第七十二案．第七十二案．"},{"start":6592.537,"end":6614.129,"text":"第七十三案 本院委員黃捷等二十三人離聚,人工生產法部分條文修正草案請水一案,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,依系處意見,�"},{"start":6620.319,"end":6621.92,"text":"第七十五案．第七十六案．"},{"start":6643.826,"end":6647.549,"text":"無異議通過下議案．第七十七案．無異議通過下議案．第七十八案．"},{"start":6672.233,"end":6674.734,"text":"五一通過下案五一通過下案五一通過下案"},{"start":6698.612,"end":6722.358,"text":"第81案,本院委員領域僅得22人領據,國家委員研究發展中心設置條例草案及審議案,依次處意見,依期會加入司法企業法治教育及文化聯盟委員會審查,宣讀完畢五一通過下一案第82案,本院委員領域僅得21人領據,廣播電視法第五條之一條維修性草案及審議案,依次處意見,依期會加入交通委員會審查,宣讀完畢"},{"start":6724.516,"end":6751.315,"text":"報告院會報告事項第82案現有國民黨團提議退回程序委員會重新提出請問院會有無異議沒有異議我們本案退回程序委員會重新提出下一案第83案本院委員另引請23人一聚數位新聞發展與民主認識法參請選一案議事區議員你請回交交通教育及文化聯會會審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":6753.069,"end":6779.062,"text":"有無異議．無異議．通過下一案。．第84案本院委員林一景等19人聯聚人工生成罰負案條文修正草案請選一案。．議事處意見議請回交社會福利及衛生環境司法及法治聯委員會審查。．宣讀完畢。．有無異議．無異議．通過下一案。．第85案本院委員林一景等21人聯聚公職人員隨即罷免法第26條條文修正草案請選一案。．議事處意見議請回交內政委員會審查。．宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6781.909,"end":6810.627,"text":"有異議無異議通過下議案．第86案．本院委員領引的21人聯聚政黨法部分條維修政策案請選一案．依次促見立行會交內政司法及法治兩委會審查．宣告完畢．有異議無異議通過下議案．第87案．本院委員楊耀等17人聯聚．人類免疫缺乏病毒傳染防治及感染者權益保障條例第12條條維修政策案請選一案．依次促見立行會交生物福利及衛生環境委員會審查．宣告完畢"},{"start":6811.874,"end":6839.907,"text":"有無異議．無異議．通過下一案．第八十八案本院委員楊耀等17人聯聚社會救助法第16條條文修正草案請審議案。依次注意見您請獲交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。宣讀完畢有無異議．無異議．通過下一案．第八十九案本院委員楊耀等17人聯聚勞工保險條例第66條集體69條條文修正草案請審議案。依次注意見您請獲交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。宣讀完畢"},{"start":6841.331,"end":6870.297,"text":"由於無意通過下議案。第九十一案本院委員楊耀等十七人聯聚公職人員選舉罵免法第67條及第69條條文修正草案清水案。依次處理屆你請會將內政委員會審查。宣讀完畢。由於無意通過下議案。第九十一案本院委員楊耀等十六人聯聚公域大廈管理條例第十條條文修正草案清水案。依次處理屆你請會將內政委員會審查。宣讀完畢。由於無意通過下議案。"},{"start":6870.814,"end":6896.537,"text":"第九十二案 協政院海警審議《全國性公民投票不在籍投票法》草案案,依釋處意見,釐清華僑內政委員會審查,宣讀完畢。有異議,無異議,通過下一案。第九十三案 協政院海警審議《陸海關軍城防法修正草案及軍人權益事件處理法》草案案,依釋處意見,釐清華僑外交及國防司法及法治兩委員會審查,宣讀完畢。有異議,無異議,通過下一案。"},{"start":6897.179,"end":6926.002,"text":"第九十四案 行政院還請審議廢止內政部一件署組織條例、內政部消防署組織條例、內政部一件署組織法及內政部消防署、港務消防隊組織通責案。依其處理件,依其會交司法及法律內政兩委員會審查。宣讀完畢。第九十五案 行政院還請審議廢止行政院原住民組委員會文化原住管理局組織條例案。依其處理件,依其會交司法及法律內政兩委員會審查。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6927.13,"end":6941.639,"text":"有無異議．無異議通過下一案．第96案．行政院案警權已廢止．行政院大陸委員會組織條例案．依次促進臨時促進外交司法規法律內政兩委員會審查．宣讀完畢有無異議．無異議通過下一案．"},{"start":6942.264,"end":6947.246,"text":"第97案 行政院院期選一份者經濟物工業局組織條例經濟部國際貿易局組織條例經濟部國際貿易局所屬各辦事處組織通則經濟部能源局組織條例經濟部中小企業處組織條例經濟部選利署組織條例經濟部選利署"},{"start":6959.631,"end":6976.734,"text":"臺北水源特定區管理局組織條例。經濟部水利署各區水資源局組織通則。經濟部水利署各河川區組織通則。經濟部水利署水利規劃事業所組織條例。經濟部加工出口區管理處組織條例。經濟部加工出口區管理處所屬各分數組織通則。"},{"start":6977.875,"end":6978.695,"text":"有無異議通過下一案。"},{"start":6998.322,"end":7008.25,"text":"第九十方案 行政院行政委員會執行政院農業委員會組織條例 行政院農業委員會農糧署組織條例 行政院農業委員會農糧署各分署組織通則 行政院農業委員會漁業署組織條例 行政院農業委員會動植物防疫檢疫局組織條例 行政院農業委員會動植物防疫檢疫局所屬各分局組織通則"},{"start":7019.278,"end":7019.859,"text":"有異議無異議通過下一案"},{"start":7033.834,"end":7052.222,"text":"第99案 行政院案件審議廢止 江東部觀光局組織條例 國家風景區管理處組織通則 江東部中央氣象局組織條例 江東部中央氣象局附屬氣象測報機構組織通則 江東部公立總局組織法 江東部民用航空局組織條例 江東部民用航空局"},{"start":7053.122,"end":7054.423,"text":"有無異議﹚無異議通過 下案"},{"start":7076.411,"end":7093.394,"text":"第120行政院行政審議費指交通部、臺灣區國道高速公路局組織條例、交通部公路總局各區養護工程處組織通則、交通部公路總局各區建立所組織通則、交通部公路總局材料事業所組織條例、交通部五金龍港務局鎮部管理局"},{"start":7094.255,"end":7120.846,"text":"管理處 組織條例 交通部基隆港務局港部工程處組織條例 交通部基隆港務局傳播機械修造工廠組織條例 交通部基隆港務局傳播管理所組織條例 交通部基隆港務局蘇澳港分局組織條例 交通部基隆港務局台北港分局組織條例 交通部台中港務局政部管理處組織條例 交通部台中港務局港部工程處組織條例 交通部台中港務局傳播機械修造工廠組織條例"},{"start":7121.986,"end":7122.126,"text":"宣讀完畢"},{"start":7150.509,"end":7154.912,"text":"有無異議,無異議,通過下一案。第10議案有無異議,無異議,通過下一案。"},{"start":7177.847,"end":7198.775,"text":"第102案 行政院行政院原子能委員會組織條例 行政院原子能委員會河南研究所組織條例 行政院原子能委員會放射性物料管理局組織條例 及行政院原子能委員會輻射專策中心組織條例案 依次書意見 依情況交司法執法事教育界文化聯委會審查 宣讀完畢"},{"start":7200.046,"end":7202.508,"text":"無異議通過下一案。無異議通過報告宴會第105案。"},{"start":7223.953,"end":7246.709,"text":"第1042 行政院罕見水益一百雙年度中央政府總預算第二預備金動枝數額表案,依次處理屆臨時委員會交財政委員會會同有關委員會審查,宣讀完畢。無異議通過報告院會現在第105案至132案請依序宣讀其中第105案"},{"start":7248.143,"end":7264.72,"text":"第109案、第124案臺灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查。宣讀後以上提案均改交相關委員會審查。其一案均照議事處意見通過請問院會有異議。異議宣讀後通過請宣讀。"},{"start":7270.663,"end":7290.44,"text":"第105案 經濟部,第120案 國家發展委員會,第12金案 行政委主席總署,第131案及第132案司法院,判為113年度中央政府總算決議,分別解送相關報告,宣讀完畢。有異,無異,下一案。第133案及諮詢四項,請一併宣讀。"},{"start":7298.607,"end":7322.022,"text":"宣讀後,第133案准予被查。請宣讀。第133案為本月人事處橫送立法院立選屆第一會期委員會召集委員名單。名單如下。立政委員會高進委員宋梅,吳委員齊銘。歐江籍國防委員會馬委員文君,王委員定宇。經濟委員會楊委員瓊英,邱委員易營。財政委員會羅委員明才,郭委員郭文。"},{"start":7322.962,"end":7322.982,"text":"好﹖"},{"start":7349.588,"end":7377.046,"text":"報告委員會,現在對行政院院長施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。在進行質詢之前,請秘書長報告部會首長請假情況。謝謝。報告委員會,行政院來函鄧正委員正宗本日因公請假。外交部吳部長遭謝本日下午4時起因公請假,由田政務處長鐘光代表列行。報告完畢。"},{"start":7378.991,"end":7379.291,"text":"請陳院長備刑。"},{"start":7407.185,"end":7409.287,"text":"請問院長你覺得為什麼我會當選?那為什麼我可以得到選民的支持?"},{"start":7428.302,"end":7430.143,"text":"這七年他們過得很好,但你過得好嗎?"},{"start":7453.977,"end":7462.746,"text":"這幾年來你辛苦念書卻幹到他們拿著假學歷在高位上思維素餐你每天收到詐騙簡訊他們卻開著詐騙集團的車用詐騙集團捐的法"},{"start":7467.822,"end":7495.843,"text":"連找份工作都要擔心會不會被凌虐、被性侵、被強摘器官永遠回不了家而這些人卻只要10萬元就能交保回家你買不到的雞蛋他們只需要花1000元開個公司過一手就賺好幾千萬你買不到的快餐他們可以讓小吃店轉型轉手就拿16億的標案連你開燈吹冷氣他們都能找出方法讓自己有得賺"},{"start":7497.595,"end":7522.117,"text":"這7年你的薪水有增加嗎?你有感受到公平正義嗎?他們把8800億的負債留給你的孩子,把高昂的電費留給你的孩子,把充滿詐騙、低薪、貪腐、不公的台灣留給你的孩子,甚至讓你根本不敢生孩子。這7年他們過得很好,但你真的過得好嗎?"},{"start":7523.413,"end":7528.728,"text":"你想要就這樣算了嗎?請您和我一起為了下一代找回公平正義。"},{"start":7533.524,"end":7555.004,"text":"跟院長報告在過去一年的選舉中我們辦了超過一百多場的街頭演講會這支影片每一場演講會我們都放搭配我們常常在演講中常講掛在嘴邊的一句話叫做黃青國氣發大財深斗小民苦哈哈搭配這支影片我們在選舉的過程中講出了平民百姓的苦和怒"},{"start":7557.193,"end":7581.372,"text":"務價飛漲、房價飛漲,我們覺得不公平。各種國家對爭議連連,我們覺得不公平。詐騙橫行、打擊不利,我們覺得不公平。論文造假、硬拗,我們覺得不公平。院長可以等一下再回答,但是我要跟院長講,我剛剛問說為什麼我會當選,我告訴你我的答案。如果我們在選舉過程中作為民意代表,沒有辦法反映社會基層真實的心聲,"},{"start":7582.313,"end":7604.498,"text":"我這個年輕人何德何能可以當選呢?也請院長理解當選之後我們如果沒有把這樣子的心聲帶進國會那是有負選民的托付我現在要開始請問院長民進黨雖然在這一次的選舉延續了中央的執政權力但在國會的席次大幅的衰退失去了完全執政的優勢請問院長這算勝選還是敗選?有勝有輸有勝有負那你覺得總體來說是勝選還是敗選?"},{"start":7612.989,"end":7628.278,"text":"其實商黨都是有勝利的部分也有失敗的部分。你覺得你不應該為這樣選舉的結果負起一定的責任?我想每一個人在競選沒有辦法這個全勝的時候都應該要檢討。"},{"start":7629.485,"end":7631.866,"text":"我想這是我跟天主的事你沒有辦法過問不能過問是吧"},{"start":7658.086,"end":7673.522,"text":"好 這個本席願意尊重但是我願意正面解讀剛剛院長講說面對這一場選舉可能要檢討的事情我個人是非常希望對我尊重院長這是您的信仰的問題但我們都非常非常的希望在這個檢討的過程中您已經不再是單純的一個人"},{"start":7677.335,"end":7700.608,"text":"在這個議場來檢討國家的政務是對的你不要來檢討個人跟信仰的問題沒錯本期當然不會在這裡跟你講個人的問題就要談國家大政嘛如果我們的院長願意在國家大政上面也把他納入深自檢討我認為這對國家大政是一件好的事情2016年您當初聲望崇隆是中研院的院士您是執政團隊那個時候的副總統"},{"start":7702.989,"end":7715.933,"text":"2020年蔡英文總統競選連任的時候遇到了政治風暴,您選擇成全禮讓,等於為黨解圍有功。到了蔡政府任期的最後,您接手行政院院長,能在這個當下為蔡政府的八年受仁。"},{"start":7724.136,"end":7724.916,"text":"太好了 首先來開始三分鐘"},{"start":7752.462,"end":7775.516,"text":"實際上蔡總統上任以來我們都可以看得到中華民國台灣在世界上確實是響亮亮的受到國際的重視。那我們就從2016年開始馬總統不敢做的年金改革我們已經完成了。馬總統的任期內沒有辦法做的國家人權委員會我們也已經成立了。"},{"start":7775.916,"end":7790.976,"text":"然後在經濟發展上特別是在COVID-19的這一段期間全世界都認同台灣的COVID-19的防疫是全世界的典範所以總統也被十幾個雜誌作為雜誌的封面更重要的在COVID-19的這一段期間"},{"start":7791.597,"end":7813.527,"text":"根據美國經濟研究所的統計在40個世界上最重要的國家當中在2020年的時候台灣的COVID-19的死亡率是全球最低而經濟衰退的情況下是唯一正成長的國家所以在2020到2023年我們台灣的稅入稅出都有大量的盈餘都在3000億以上特別是2020年"},{"start":7814.727,"end":7836.806,"text":"二年的時候高達將近5000億因此我們有足夠的經費來推動所有的改善那台灣我們也可以看得到在這一段期間我們所有的建設增加我們不再缺電我們不再缺水更重要的我們民眾有很大的信心那當然我們自己講是沒有用啦更重要的我們在看國際的評比在國際的評比上"},{"start":7838.847,"end":7841.008,"text":"而且更重要的如果在外交上我們可以看得到我們跟美國、歐盟"},{"start":7868.135,"end":7869.176,"text":"更重要的我們在人權保障上已經被認為是"},{"start":7896.934,"end":7898.155,"text":"所以不管在政治、經濟、文化"},{"start":7926.327,"end":7954.75,"text":"觀爭等等都有很大的進步那你剛才講的那一些數據可能是以偏概全謝謝你時間到謝謝院長還願意尊重不過院長我覺得你剛剛這三分鐘的講話基本上完全叫答非所問我剛剛問你的題目是為什麼民進黨是有何不得民心的地方以至於你到最後國會選舉的席次大幅衰退你有沒有相關的檢討方案你花了三分鐘的時間大幅的論述我們的成績有多麼的好評比有多麼的高"},{"start":7955.371,"end":7956.361,"text":"院長這不叫檢討"},{"start":7958.53,"end":7985.778,"text":"這個場合不是你的施政報告也不是你大內宣的舞台我願意給你時間是因為我希望我也相信院長是一個願意反省檢討用嚴格的標準要求自己的行政團隊的人但是你把剛剛的三分鐘的時間對不起請你不要打斷我你把那三分鐘的時間拿來講自己有多好多好我實在很懷疑你心裡到底有沒有檢討兩個字我可以回答嗎不行你的時間已經過了我舉一個例子給你聽既然要談檢討我們就檢討比如說前一段時間我就講桃園的例子"},{"start":7986.967,"end":8008.632,"text":"政府我認為有若干可疑之處,當初台積電當初說要來龍潭設廠,行政院當時在沒有完成任何龍科三期可行性評估的前提之下,更不用說沒有完善的徵收計畫的前提之下,內閣就急功近利,越組帶跑搶先宣布,一個廠要不要來這邊設廠是企業的事,不是政府的事,以至於人民焦慮抗爭頻傳。"},{"start":8010.572,"end":8037.924,"text":"最後讓台積電被迫宣布設廠計畫暫緩政府卻選擇在選舉期間大肆抹黑桃園市政府趕走台積電這樣子的說法無助於解決問題反而加深中央跟地方的矛盾這就是錯上加錯。事實證明天下雜誌也說這個龍潭台積電破局的案子該檢討的是政治人物的急躁表態與粗糙的政策產製流程"},{"start":8040.545,"end":8064.895,"text":"這個讓園區的擴建計畫一波三折這是天下雜誌的報告我原句轉述我告訴院長事實證明桃園鄉親的眼睛是雪亮的我們都期待農科擴大可以順利的進行我們都希望台積電可以順利的來桃園但是人民不會買單政府空泛的大內宣因為人民期待的是務實可行的政策而不是空頭支票更不是政治詐騙"},{"start":8065.775,"end":8092.706,"text":"本席要求政府未來在開發產專園區導引產業發展的同時應該要務實的解決用地、能源、財務的問題要低調的規劃要確認所有的程序完備之後你再來宣布好消息這樣才是做產業的後盾這樣才是成就護國神山的正確方式院長我剛剛講這個案例我舉個例子給你聽"},{"start":8093.106,"end":8095.287,"text":"我可以回答嗎?你剛剛講的我不同意。而且地方政府沒有盡到自己的責任。"},{"start":8111.118,"end":8111.258,"text":"我想逃逐"},{"start":8126.405,"end":8147.9,"text":"大細股的計畫齁,連桃園市政府都贊成嘛當然嘛,我當初也沒有反對農科三期的誇大計畫當時農科也是大家都贊成可是這件事情當國科會在準備這一個用地的時候當廠商在努力的時候地方政府有沒有幫忙來做協調呢所以你剛才講的根本是不符合事實嘛"},{"start":8148.2,"end":8151.943,"text":"所以我會覺得以偏概全啦沒有錯各縣市在爭取科學園區的時候就只有桃園市沒有成功啊"},{"start":8164.972,"end":8173.877,"text":"委員長深呼吸。大家都說你是大人哥,不要戰狼上身變成大狼哥啦。聖騎士就聖騎士,不要變聖戰士啦。冷靜。局長。委員長。冷靜。我一問你一答嘛好不好。質詢我們回到這樣子。但是我要有時間嗎?你這樣子就沒有讓我發的時間。委員長你要先聽我說明嘛。"},{"start":8189.727,"end":8195.629,"text":"當初行政院在宣布台積電要來桃園的時候連可行性評估都還沒有做請問這樣宣布是合理的嗎?請院長回答"},{"start":8196.946,"end":8197.266,"text":"發生了什麼事?"},{"start":8227.462,"end":8242.137,"text":"現在台積電確定了沒?還沒對不對可是我告訴你院長這是我們來自基層的觀察宣布來龍坑龍潭土地大廠宣布去嘉義嘉義土地大廠宣布去高雄高雄土地大廠通通炒地皮但最後台積電請問去了哪裡?請問去了哪裡?我告訴院長"},{"start":8250.425,"end":8267.94,"text":"大家都希望爭取,我也希望政府盡量來促成,但是手段程序要完備,做法要務實,完備之後你再來宣布好消息,是不是比較正確?我們當然是完備才來宣布啊,當然,但是地方政府可以宣布他的努力方向。"},{"start":8269.104,"end":8270.145,"text":"院長 現在各縣市政府先讓我講"},{"start":8299.287,"end":8316.881,"text":"各縣市政府要爭取,非要爭取,但是由中央來宣布,你宣布了嗎?要去雲林了嗎?你要不要現在宣布?還是現在宣布去嘉義?是不是由中央來宣布?是不是?應不應該?我想,就我剛才講的嘛,地方政府要來宣布,都是一樣的,這樣的方式啦。"},{"start":8318.161,"end":8341.066,"text":"我跟你講你現在不要找一個特別的例子來講科學園區的發展國科會有自己主導的權利但是地方政府我們也尊重地方政府的爭取我在當國科會主委的時候嘉義縣政府就已經來爭取他也對外宣布那我們很尊重可是我們會告訴他要可行性評估什麼叫做西部規劃什麼叫做環評"},{"start":8343.607,"end":8352.783,"text":"這才是正確的流程但問題是論壇科學是誰宣布的是內閣行政院親自會刊親自宣布的這就是問題嘛我現在講就是不對的嘛"},{"start":8354.02,"end":8374.693,"text":"見識政府可以爭取你可以全力協助真的有成績一起宣布拍拍手可是論壇的問題是還沒有程序的時候行政院就宣布這就不對了所以我拿這個例子告訴院長政府的施政哪怕你剛剛花了三分鐘時間講有多好都還是有很多地方是值得改進的是值得商榷的我希望在這場諮詢我們去談總檢討的時候是可以聽到這樣的事情的嘛對不對好啦 院長顯然看起來齁這個總諮詢到這個時候"},{"start":8384.981,"end":8398.833,"text":"總檢討大概也講不出什麼東西啦因為剛剛給你三分鐘給你宣布給你去講你也講不出個東西來我拿一個案例給你聽你還非常強硬說你都是對的所以顯然這八年沒有任何檢討好吧既然沒有檢討那我們就面對未來好了"},{"start":8399.775,"end":8420.396,"text":"我最近發現你變蠻多的以前溫文儒雅現在很兇悍大家都在想說是不是政治上有新的考量請問院長新的總統上任之後你會不會續任行政院長不會賴清德總統親自邀請你會不會續任不會如果賴清德總統不會就是不會跟蔡英文總統也不會嗎不會"},{"start":8422.057,"end":8437.049,"text":"好,看來您的這個意志非常堅決。那麼現在就是看守階段對不對?是。看守對不對?請教院長。但是看守還是要做事。要戰戰兢兢做到5月19日。戰戰兢兢。而且每一個事情該推動的就推動。何況民進黨繼續執政,所以賴總統跟"},{"start":8441.412,"end":8447.475,"text":"好,非常好啊本期要跟你講的就是說看守內閣啊不應該是等待任期結束的空轉內閣看守內閣要回應人民的期待這就是我剛才講過啦但是我為什麼要跟你檢討"},{"start":8461.601,"end":8486.898,"text":"因為人民不滿的政策內閣有這個責任喊停還議啊所以我剛剛問你哪些做得不夠好是因為看守內閣有為有守的過程中福過利民的繼續做但是政策有爭議的民眾顯然不買單的你要喊停還議讓新政府的意志來做決定延續性的重大建設當然不能浪費時間院長你在選舉前就是行政院長根據責任政治的原則"},{"start":8487.739,"end":8490.541,"text":"我告訴跟院長分享本席心目中看守內閣其實有一個蠻不錯的例子跟你分享2016年的張善政內閣其實當初得到了不分朝野的正面評價"},{"start":8517.401,"end":8537.876,"text":"面對國民黨當初的敗選張善政前院長在看守內閣的任內他充分尊重了地方的意見他支持林佑昌前市長核准基隆軍港部分移交基隆市政府他支持林佳龍前市長因應台中市的升格核准了台中市府公務人員的名額他支持賴清德前市長"},{"start":8538.836,"end":8558.814,"text":"讓臺南會展中心的建設預算順利通過。儘管這些縣市當初都是綠營執政但福國利民的事情張善政前院長他沒有浪費時間他也沒有大小眼張善政市長面對不得選民的支持的政策他擔起責任及時喊停桃園的鐵路高架化跟地下化之爭其實"},{"start":8559.955,"end":8581.709,"text":"談了非常多但人民在2014年跟2016年的兩場選舉用選票否定了國民黨提出的高價化方案。張善政前院長他就擔起了相關的責任在他的任內喊停了高價化的行政程序讓當初執政的鄭文燦前市長有那個空間可以去提出地下化的版本。"},{"start":8582.649,"end":8610.983,"text":"張前院長的施政留下不分朝野的好評也為當初敗選的國民黨稍微贏回了一些尊嚴這個證明了即便是看守內閣的看守期間我們也依然期待內閣有為有守院長我說有為有守是有些事要做有些事要停才叫有為有守我現在給院長幾個建議看看我們院長面對最新的民意是不是一樣能夠有為有守院長看到這個投影片你知道我常常搭集結來立法院開會嗎"},{"start":8612.728,"end":8631.981,"text":"我不曉得我常常搭這都是我上班途中留下的剪影這幾天的照片給你做一下參考尖峰期間本來是桃園桃園跟台北的通勤組的權益是非常重要的機場捷運的列車還有國道客運常常是班班滿大排長龍的一個情況之下"},{"start":8633.122,"end":8648.269,"text":"機場捷運線不只服務機場的觀光客也要服務平常北桃之間的通勤客現在的狀況是桃園捷運公司在張三正市長的領導下已經連續增班了七八次但是如果要再增班讓桃園機場"},{"start":8649.249,"end":8650.33,"text":"請問一下院長或是部長的想法,請回答。"},{"start":8665.023,"end":8692.543,"text":"我請部長回答現在季節一天大概10萬以上尤其T-PASS上路以後那台灣市政府也提出這個徵購車廂的這個計畫但是現在有一個題目就是說資產轉移在前任市長已經談好大概10億的轉移所以我們是在內部台灣希望轉移後我們來支持直達車的車廂我想這部分大概已經在去年12月12號行政院做這樣的結論"},{"start":8693.544,"end":8705.893,"text":"那這個部分會再跟台灣市政府再做一些溝通,目前就是支持,直達車的部分會支持直達車的部分佔全部當初提出的車廂採購需求的多少?總數是80幾億,直達車應該是有50億吧,我在猜"},{"start":8713.959,"end":8739.223,"text":"我們當然站在地方的角度啦,站在桃園市發展的角度,而且這一條其實憑良心講也不是只有服務桃園的旅客,我每天從A8搭到A1,常常其實新北的旅客他也是被服務到的,台北市的旅客他也是被服務到的,更不用講全台灣要去機場,這個臨時有需求要去機場這些旅客,所以我希望中央啊,這一條不是桃園市內部的捷運線而已,它是一個跨縣市的中央級的運具嘛,是不是"},{"start":8739.463,"end":8742.505,"text":"現在就是用那個他的財政他現在三級就是84%就直達車就是購車費用的84%普通車他自己處理普通車是他當時的地方的捷運"},{"start":8759.835,"end":8778.853,"text":"大概初步但是我們是希望那個資產移轉在我們行政院討論室趕快來處理因為這個不處理變成營運或是活動都地方政府在辦資產還掛在中央所以基本上至少會有自駕車的50多億的補助就對了我們現在初步是這樣的一個方案但是這個跟台灣市政府還在討論"},{"start":8779.594,"end":8807.899,"text":"還在討論大概具體的時間表大概交通部裡面心裡有一個規劃嗎?現在我們已經發案給桃園市政府但是他現在針對尤其那個資產轉移這部分還沒有同意所以我們是說轉移以後這個營運都因為現在的決定都是地方這部分我們會後因為今天時間有限委員最重要的是資產轉移這件事情你請桃園市政府趕快來做然後要購車再提出計畫這樣子就是循序漸進"},{"start":8808.979,"end":8830.44,"text":"中央地方好好合作啦我完全同意好謝謝第二個是這個本期運氣還算不錯啦我住的地方離機場捷運算近但選區內很多市民朋友南侃的也好大竹的也好大塊西的也好鄉親非常需要穩定的國道客運來進行通勤近年國道客運的狀況非常不OK遇到疫情然後再來是通膨"},{"start":8831.081,"end":8850.529,"text":"成本大增苦不堪言以至於各個客運業者要退場撂挑子不幹今天早上南崁的5203A就出事了因為前一個業者退場了接續的業者落高結果今天通勤客全員馬上受到損害這件事情談個案在這裡談個案太小了我們要談通案怎麼徹底的改善國道客運的品質"},{"start":8851.049,"end":8851.109,"text":"請回答"},{"start":8865.698,"end":8889.687,"text":"各位報告就是說目前第一個是司機不足的部分我們現在每位司機大概花15萬在幫地方訓練現在大概已經到2000位了逐步比如說桃園、桃園科研部也在那個第二個現在那個他的這個整個成本提升最近他們送了一個這個條件新的版本進來嗎對不對我想這部分我們會來支持"},{"start":8890.447,"end":8915.3,"text":"本席要求重訴啦,這應該是贅述審核嘛,因為現在退場的狀況很嚴重。意思是說讓他有充分的這個收入,來因應來因應。殺頭生意有人做,賠錢生意沒人做嘛,對不對。這個部分現在就是公路局,然後交通部會來做審查。有沒有具體的時間表,這件事我非常關心。他現在初審已經審過,他們應該在幾個禮拜內會送到交通部來,那我們會透過我們委員會來審查。"},{"start":8916.411,"end":8931.293,"text":"通過委員會來審查好不好這部份也希望部長多用你心把他變成施政的第一優先順位啦第一怕是1200是好政策他是造福的通勤組但你不要有好政策就實際上配套跟不上我覺得這就為德不足了好不好所以不管是季節的列車增班"},{"start":8931.693,"end":8932.173,"text":"再來是大的建設 院長"},{"start":8949.827,"end":8950.908,"text":"這本席還是議員的時候我們要感謝一下副院長"},{"start":8967.21,"end":8967.31,"text":"很快"},{"start":8995.553,"end":9020.553,"text":"這個就是 這個批了沒 這個公文對 很快就會有好消息很快 有沒有一個具體的時間嘛 鄉親很期待嘛 我講這個福國利民的延續性的建設不久 不久就會有好消息不久就會有好消息 你這不能再透露一點嗎 不可以為什麼不可以 建設的好消息 這都確定的是啊該宣布 就你剛才講的嘛 該宣布就宣布你現在又要我提前講 所以你自己前後矛盾啊 院長"},{"start":9021.374,"end":9028.938,"text":"這可是因為,來來來,你看一下這張圖表,你剛才講到,院長你看一下這張圖表,可行性研究,輕軌改,中間環評通過,交通部審核通過,國發會審核通過,這叫程序完備。"},{"start":9037.742,"end":9046.01,"text":"所以你如果批了就可以宣布?還沒有批就是沒有程序完備對不對?還在審查就是沒有程序完備對不對?現在在講這個我就跟你講你說什麼時候核定我說時間快了嘛"},{"start":9055.339,"end":9083.356,"text":"那你還要我之前宣布我這樣換一個角度問好了院長會不會核定我們退一點會不會核定應不應該核定在這個都已經前面專業的幕僚單位都處理完的情況下會不會核定當然核定就像經過各式各樣的審查的資料都完全的時候才能核定啊但是我是跟你講說快了我現在已經跟你講快了雖然這個我們剛剛有吵架但沒關係只要大的建設能落地我都感激你好不好"},{"start":9084.376,"end":9105.804,"text":"好,最後兩分鐘了好不好,我也要請教幾個爭議的議題,我們剛剛講看守內閣有為有守,剛剛這些扶國立民的政策叫有為啊,那有些爭議的題目啊,那叫有守啊,因為時間不多了啊,我們也就別吵了,我簡單講一下就好。比如說這段時間大家在討論的印度勞工來台,人心惶惶,它也許只是一個MOU啊,但是這個政策的溝通落地啊,"},{"start":9106.164,"end":9132.098,"text":"本席認為這個應該是交給新政府來處理嘛因為這剛好在看守期間的事情那也許新政府會有新政府的想法也許值得院長深入的考慮因為民進黨連續執政所以新舊政府之間有很好的溝通而且印度移工的這件事情我們也一再跟總統副總統有在討論所以不需要像你講的你講的張善政的事情是因為"},{"start":9133.539,"end":9155.464,"text":"沒有連續執政嘛所以才需要這樣做我們現在現在我開始跟你講印度移工就是要做最後一分鐘我把講完復路團客的經歷也是一樣政府當然有決策的理由你有你的模式我尊重但這個政策的時間點我要講的是時間點你是預判賴清德政府會跟大陸烽火連天所以壞帳先扛嗎還是你要先言後寬讓賴清德釋放善意面價調漲也是如此嘛"},{"start":9158.805,"end":9172.194,"text":"這個姿勢體大嚴重影響民生啊很有可能會導致下一次的通告膨脹看守期間你要幫賴清德當壞人嗎本期先提這幾個案例啊我只是嚴肅提醒嚴肅提醒這些議題啊值得在國會有深入的討論而決策應該要尊重新政府的意志而不是看守內閣趁亂過關我希望院長聽得進勸不要一意孤行"},{"start":9186.423,"end":9215.144,"text":"但你如果非得要一意孤行,那我們知道國會見真章了好不好,謝謝啦。我想喔,這個還有16分鐘,16秒。實際上在這一個過去的這一段時間,總統、副總統跟行政院長都有很好的討論,再加上民進黨要繼續執政,所以這一些的政策實際上就有通盤的討論。所以你根本不只有台哥嘛,講白了就是這樣嘛,謝謝啦。謝謝年委員雪婷的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。"},{"start":9216.847,"end":9241.278,"text":"接下來我們請登記第22號王委員定語質詢。謝謝院長。麻煩陳建林院長。麻煩再請陳院長備詢。"},{"start":9249.994,"end":9276.022,"text":"我今天題目比較多大概都跟關市選區或者台灣民眾比較關心的事情那第一件事情可能我也聽王國才部長也提過了現在我們在基層民眾有兩件事情我們請行政院在最快的速度回應人民的聲音第一個是濫刑檢舉你知道那個檢舉達人有一個人檢舉兩萬件的"},{"start":9279.77,"end":9307.895,"text":"就是說類似這樣的案例違法當然不對違規當然該處罰但是當檢舉達人已經形成很多人的困擾的時候這個要做一個處理處理的方法我們今天時間不夠我有看到王國才部長你有說過你在這個會期要做調整第一個是檢舉達人的問題第二個是什麼呢違規我還是贊成就罰交通安全人命安全是至高無上的價值但是祭典制也應該要有所調整"},{"start":9309.017,"end":9325.563,"text":"為什麼你知道嗎?我們現在寄點蠻容易都寄到點了。然後呢,對一般用路人,啊,記點啊,駕照,我駕照扣掉了。那我就這幾個月不要開車就好。你們忘了有一種人,他一家三餐生活都靠這張駕照。職業駕駛、小貨車、上迴。他一停,自己當老闆的。"},{"start":9332.619,"end":9344.937,"text":"他趕快扣尿,馬上就沒工作了。你幫我公司開貨車,你駕照都不能用了,三個月不能用,一年不能用。所以祭典制會剝奪了一些基層人民謀生的能力。"},{"start":9345.447,"end":9374.874,"text":"所以我一開始這兩件事情請行政院跟交通部最快的時間進行相關不管是修法或行政命令的調整我不知道院長對這個事情有沒有看法這件事情我們實際上正在積極進行當中我們希望在下一個禮拜的院會對這件事情就會有提出下禮拜因為檢舉魔人那已經不叫達人了檢舉魔人以及祭典制的調整我覺得是"},{"start":9375.697,"end":9376.537,"text":"議員長那天我們在那邊發燈籠小籠包"},{"start":9399.502,"end":9425.672,"text":"八十六號的塞的狀況,那個不是因為台灣燈會而已。八十六號從我選區的最西側,從萬里喜宿一路到關廟,未來要打通到岐山。那這一條路現在上下班,二高會回堵塞到我們這個關廟這一個交流道這邊。然後呢,八十六號呢往二高的方向也會回堵塞到中山路上面。"},{"start":9426.55,"end":9449.945,"text":"那現在這個工程延伸要打通關廟到前段打通關廟經過新的砲校到龍崎這是很大啦第二段是182線沿路一直走走到龍船經過五間打通到內門有兩段我覺得這個問題很簡單就是那邊的交通阻塞已經是刻不容緩一定要快點改"},{"start":9450.285,"end":9450.945,"text":"兩件事情請院長協助。"},{"start":9469.148,"end":9491.485,"text":"還平能不能更快一點提報再來還平的過程他現在是壓3年能不能縮短還平的期程來請院長回答這個還平的資料如果準備得很完整的話呢那當然這個期程就有可能會縮短那在準備的情況我請部長再做一個很簡單的回答提前上次跟委員到現場就是跨"},{"start":9492.325,"end":9498.487,"text":"現在這兩個合起來我們是民國122年完工的確還品如果能提早做完工時程都會縮短所以我們還是朝這個盡量縮短那目前目標也是122年全部完工對你122年才能完工嘛對對盡量加速盡量加速"},{"start":9522.696,"end":9548.255,"text":"那個我到現在不太有信心啦齁但是我現在是希望我們一段一段加速環評環境部這邊我不是說要省略而是資料齊備可以一次完成不要再提前三、五月三、五月又再來來來去去就慢了能不能一次把它弄好來齁這個進度我們希望我們公路總局跟那個交通部這邊齁進度隨時讓本席這邊掌握這個地方很關切的事情"},{"start":9548.735,"end":9552.16,"text":"好 下一件事情我們請管委員跟那個院長 管主委這個"},{"start":9557.732,"end":9583.686,"text":"臺美和美國在2021年3月26日簽了一個海巡合作瞭解備忘錄這個備忘錄呢當時的背景是我們臺美臺灣關係法40年然後臺美關係一直升溫那也因為中國在印太地區的擴張中國不僅騷擾了菲律賓的經濟水域也騷擾了越南也騷擾了日本也騷擾了韓國他還騷擾了俄羅斯"},{"start":9586.613,"end":9588.854,"text":"美國在那個時候就把他們的海岸巡防隊要派了船艦來到印太地區搭配第七艦隊這是時空背景"},{"start":9610.422,"end":9636.281,"text":"2021 二零二一年三月二十六號臺美簽訂了海巡合作瞭解備忘錄﹖裡面有我們每年要選任六個七個海巡優秀的我們這些兄弟姐妹到美國受訓那另外有一個叫護魚我們的合作項目有護魚那本席請教院長跟管主委我們從簽署合作備忘錄到現在有沒有臺美聯合護魚的行動的案例"},{"start":9637.322,"end":9663.227,"text":"我們有一些合作那事實上在互娛所謂互娛的部分漁業合作的部分最主要的還是在共同打擊IUU所以簽訂的這個內容主要是我們兩國之間彼此是容許相互登檢來打擊IUU主要是這個部分相互允許對方去執法這是一件事情那有沒有聯合互娛案例現在看起來是還沒有"},{"start":9663.667,"end":9691.886,"text":"我們目前還沒有聯合賦予的案例我是不是建議這樣子像美國在吉里巴斯跟吉里巴斯的水上警察有聯合賦予他們在菲律賓的經濟水域有聯合賦予那日本也有他們用的是海岸巡防隊就降低軍事上的直接的摩擦我倒不是指金門那邊金下是敏感地區那個地方是越降溫越好明明就是一個違法的刑事犯罪者"},{"start":9692.566,"end":9694.147,"text":"報告委員海巡的執法我們還是以優先無論如何"},{"start":9713.758,"end":9733.355,"text":"海巡的執法,要不要精進,要不要增加設備,這個是可以,但是我們在我們國家的水域的執法權不容侵犯,這個是沒有打折扣的條件,所以館主委我現在講的是另外一件事情,我特別怕以為我們說臺美要去金門,不是這個事情,我指的是,"},{"start":9734.424,"end":9754.52,"text":"我們不會升高政治的對立。就是說在不是緊張區域,臺美既然有簽署海巡的聯合護魚的相關的合作備忘錄,我們就把它carry out,我們就讓它執行出來。也許在南泰,也許在我們巴士海峽的漁場或哪裡,建立彼此合作也訓練我們。"},{"start":9756.941,"end":9782.348,"text":"這幾年有一些合作的項目在進行,但是基於外交上面的尊重,我們恐怕不適合在這裡做詳細的報告。好,那有合作的方向等到具體成熟的時候,我相信要讓國人知道啦。好,謝謝管主委喔。我今天有兩個事情,院長這兩個事情可以隨著耶。這個要跟院長報告,一個是跟農業部有關,一個是跟內政部警政署有關。"},{"start":9783.254,"end":9811.099,"text":"第一個老農津貼老農津貼呢在我們去年有經過物價調整所以有把它調高到8080元沒多高啦但是總是有調高從過去的7000塊一直慢慢調調調到8080那我們的物調呢是每4年一次嘛現在規定這樣子可是從這一個民國102年那時候是馬政府的時候他把它丟了一個牌付條款"},{"start":9812.419,"end":9827.056,"text":"五百萬財產的人他就不能捏老農津貼當時這個排富條款,坦白講農民之間的反彈很大那到現在呢,也經過了一二十年的時間所以我今天不是單純講發多少錢的問題"},{"start":9830.279,"end":9833.381,"text":"我跟委員說明就是說我們針對老農津貼的一個針對上個會議有提修正版本我們有提一個"},{"start":9859.801,"end":9876.55,"text":"的一個方案提到行政院這裡面有特別針對排富條款包括所得的50萬包括那個財產的500萬還有一個自用的400萬的部分我們都有建議行政院這邊就是在考慮的時候"},{"start":9877.466,"end":9878.907,"text":"陳院長,都是我們台灣社會最堅固的一塊。"},{"start":9901.215,"end":9905.177,"text":"我聽到數據是800萬啦,行政院對這個事情能不能在這個會期內把它進行所有相關的調整?"},{"start":9924.042,"end":9945.66,"text":"我們會跟八大社福一起來考慮但是我答應說一定會在這個會期來這個會期一定要處理社福我尊重但老農這一塊牽涉到農業產業我覺得我們已經年金都出來了老農津貼這一塊的牌付條款的調整我覺得應該給予調整影響的人其實他是一種感覺"},{"start":9946.781,"end":9966.511,"text":"他多領的也沒有多少錢,但是你給他白賭債挖不太合理,這個我謝謝院長承諾這個會期要把它做處理了。接下來有關緊勤津貼的部分,我們在去年7月行政院,感謝行政院我們總體經濟表現不錯,所以把警察加薪就緊勤津貼加擠增加了15%。"},{"start":9967.992,"end":9994.418,"text":"所以呢在第一線的外勤基層員警每個月開大概會增加1265塊在雙北的刑警每個月多增加大概3289塊這一塊是我們已經做的但是我要跟林右昌部長跟院長講的是加班費我們現在的加班費公務人員軍警消警消公務員都一樣加班費是用這個薪資"},{"start":9995.818,"end":10023.787,"text":"專業加擠加主管加擠這三個來算加班費。然後在警察根據釋憲案之後呢加班一天只能加4個小時每一年每個月可以增加班的時數有所限制。那我們把我們把加班費那個超勤津貼超勤加班費調高到一萬九結果我們最基層的員警越低階的員警他的本縫清水"},{"start":10024.622,"end":10046.423,"text":"警勤津貼沒有算進去,他的專業加擠放進去,他沒有主管加擠,算一算每個小時大概只有一百七十七塊,你要領到一萬九的加班費,要加班每個月一百零七小時,所以這句話在基層警員就告訴我們,看得到領不到,你給我一萬九我根本領不到,因為你限制我加班的上限了。"},{"start":10047.213,"end":10064.493,"text":"然後呢我的薪水又比較低所以就只有177塊的加班費的基準本期在這邊具體建議你看我們那個條例我們的這一個是警察人士條例裡面的現行警察人員你看一下第27條的第二項"},{"start":10067.093,"end":10082.847,"text":"跟公務人員完全不同的只有一個叫做勤務加擠這個是警察獨有的所以不會影響全面只有警察獨有的如果把勤務加擠列入警察加班費的計算基準數裡面"},{"start":10084.068,"end":10110.286,"text":"那基層高階的其實沒影響啦,高階本來就已經緊繃到一萬九,不會再增加了啦。但基層員警領不到。所以如果把這個勤務加給我們給他加班,我們加到百分之十五,這勤務加給,列入加班費的計算金儲。其他都沒有,這只有警察獨有的。那可以讓我們基層的員警在外面車巡啊,在你看昨天基隆發生不幸的事件,那都是我們第一線最基層的警察兄弟姐妹齁。"},{"start":10111.206,"end":10112.607,"text":"我問議員報告一下,我們本來是有函各位18小時的上線,現在沒有函,但是有一個問題"},{"start":10131.602,"end":10154.89,"text":"您現在加班 加班警察加班有汗費嗎?我這事拜託議長及尤雙部長當過地方父母官的齁 去書科看來 把警勤這個 把他列入加班費的計算基準 你去算一下真的就幫助到基層員警 中高階的警察警官反而影響"},{"start":10161.254,"end":10164.056,"text":"好,謝謝王委員定於的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第23號林委員配降質詢。"},{"start":10213.542,"end":10236.734,"text":"請直接發言,沒問題,麥克風已經開了。院長,請陳建仁院長備詢。好,麻煩請陳院長備詢。特別跟林委員報告,三個麥克風都可以用。對,對。林委員長,恭喜你當選立委。院長,謝謝。我們是行政院院長,"},{"start":10238.115,"end":10240.777,"text":"今天不管如何我希望有個善意的質詢跟回應"},{"start":10261.278,"end":10289.591,"text":"為什麼先把北北基的這個議題拿出來講因為我記得沒有錯的話賴清德總統當選人在選舉的時候曾經提出來的桃竹苗大細股一年200億的計畫那我就很想知道說那對於我們北北基桃目前的規劃是什麼畢竟來講北北基桃加起來可能超過1000萬人口也是目前我們全國最大人口區"},{"start":10290.451,"end":10292.694,"text":"我想北北寄討我們本來就是把它當作首都生活圈"},{"start":10305.148,"end":10306.989,"text":"那我想請問一個事情就是TPASS上路之後當然是成效蠻好的"},{"start":10333.9,"end":10340.204,"text":"但是這個財源來講嚴格來說本席也認為說這個TPAS1200那這個會延續到多久?現在我們的預算我們當然是希望能夠繼續編下去那當然這個預算的編列還需要送到大院來審查但是現在的預算是到114年"},{"start":10363.777,"end":10364.678,"text":"我請部長回答你"},{"start":10380.536,"end":10398.86,"text":"跟委員報告目前基隆捷運環評跟中規都合訂了所以現在是在新北市政府他會來做興建的工作那目前是在民國123年完工目前的目標年是123年那請問我認為是可能馬上通車馬上就會完工通車馬上出問題為什麼因為我們知道說現在基隆捷運"},{"start":10410.81,"end":10435.917,"text":"從八堵到南港就要33分鐘。也就是說我們如果現行的台鐵區間車只要23分鐘到24分鐘目前的自強號只要14到17分鐘的時候當通車的那一刻也就是表示那是空車的那一刻因為從基隆到台北上班的人我很難想像說他們會願意搭一個比較普遍節如果一票"},{"start":10436.937,"end":10465.636,"text":"一票一站基隆火車站直基隆火車站直達台北火車站他們的這個火車不用而改去搭捷運而如果說像這樣的情況之下會不會說當基隆捷運第一段完工的時候就是空車就是噩夢的來臨了這個噩夢不只是給中央政府也是給新北市台北市會不會有這樣的事情發生我想大家都喜歡來爭取捷運包括基隆也是一樣那最主要呢委員可能也很清楚"},{"start":10466.058,"end":10476.297,"text":"解運的班次跟台鐵的班次是不一樣的,我請部長來詳細跟你說。委員你注意看路線圖,它跟台鐵已經分離了。"},{"start":10477.244,"end":10477.264,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":10503.098,"end":10505.219,"text":"基本上我個人我本人我本席認為不管怎麼樣捷運的"},{"start":10520.926,"end":10550.149,"text":"前提不是為了都市發展而是為了交通運輸為了通勤足額準備的對吧?都市發展很重要但是如果排二以先順序來講的話應該是通勤為主再來才是都市發展那我如果最後的目標是希望做軌道運輸整體的軌道運輸可以提升的話那就變成是說假設從八堵到南港端都要花33分鐘而從基隆到台北火車站的時間可能會比這個"},{"start":10550.709,"end":10568.87,"text":"中國時間來得少很多的話以本席一個今天早上自己開車從基隆開自己開車從基隆來台北上班的人或以前從坐火車從基隆到台北來上班的人我會覺得說他們要趕上9點的那一個班要趕上9點能夠順利打卡"},{"start":10569.931,"end":10589.742,"text":"這個是對於未來做捷運會很辛苦的事情。我不知道部長有沒有這個...我跟各位報告以阪南線來看,你說阪橋到台北有火車也有捷運,可是阪南線的後端是服務包括這個相關的以前台鐵沒有服務到的地方。"},{"start":10591.663,"end":10602.19,"text":"部長我直接問另外一個問題好了,請問一下基隆捷運最多可以做,如果全部,1、1階段全部都可以做人的話,請問一下基隆捷運這一列車廂可以放幾個人?"},{"start":10604.161,"end":10622.778,"text":"一般沒有這樣,就是一小時大概五千人,可以運送五千人。五千人次還是五千人?五千人次也可以,人次。五千人有很多,因為院長每一句話我們現在每個人都在記錄,因為五千人次等於兩千五百人是嗎?今天有個好處,比如說班次收短一半,就變成一萬人。"},{"start":10624.199,"end":10648.189,"text":"我現在要問的問題是在於說請問這一列列車我剛剛有講一列列車多少人?應該是300人。那請問台鐵呢?台鐵像普悠瑪那些是500多人。那請問你知道基隆市每天搭乘火車到台北上班的人有多少人?大概應該是有6萬人。"},{"start":10650.478,"end":10651.018,"text":"總數10萬啦,鐵路大概6萬"},{"start":10663.272,"end":10685.14,"text":"市長,我認為您對數字的掌握其實很有問題,真的很有問題。不過我想請問說,如果假設一萬五千人,你剛剛說是三、四百人一列列車,那麼你如何在七點到九點之間能夠順利的把一萬五千人從基隆到台北運送呢?"},{"start":10686.917,"end":10710.296,"text":"你認為捷運做得到嗎?不是,你現在都在算車廂車廂的話現在一列414人啊這是昨天出來的報告上面寫的啊33分鐘也是昨天出來中國的報告上面寫的啊那我只想問你這報告是真的還假的順便我也想問其他的我覺得都是很弔詭的事情那我想請問說我們想從這邊這個資料來看一下好了"},{"start":10714.949,"end":10719.917,"text":"這是你們自己從文部報告寫出來的資料嗎?是,來,謝謝這是什麼東西?"},{"start":10728.811,"end":10745.436,"text":"本席是基隆市市民那對於基隆市的財務本席相當關心那我想請問一下以現行台鐵的運量來為參考是否以後可以支撐整個基隆捷運的運作因為我們要知道一件事情喔"},{"start":10747.951,"end":10759.049,"text":"現在基隆捷運第一段完工的點是在八堵八堵附近有多少人願意去搭捷運還是直接開車到台北這件事情請部長列入考量"},{"start":10760.151,"end":10762.353,"text":"請問一下如果說在這個單就營運成本跟預期收益的推估之後就基隆地區"},{"start":10781.587,"end":10794.17,"text":"而言需要負擔多少虧損才能支持營運?畢竟你把二氧化碳跟造勢的效益跟土地開發的效益不能直接折成金錢或薪水來做維護吧?"},{"start":10795.287,"end":10796.388,"text":"市長我還有另外一個最現實的問題要問"},{"start":10820.35,"end":10825.732,"text":"我們現在基隆市政府有提出一個巴獨到基隆火車站的這個申請經費大概一千多萬我們會給予協助"},{"start":10838.317,"end":10840.761,"text":"本期對於你說要給予協助、給予肯定,不過本期更希望說我們行政院可以給基隆市多一點幫忙。"},{"start":10854.909,"end":10882.718,"text":"因為這一個規劃基本上我如果我記得沒有錯話因為少林部長也在場當初是國家海洋門戶計劃剛開始是一毛錢都不用付現在好行政院改朝換代之後說使用者付費那基隆人也就認了但是這條基隆捷運本席認為對於都市發展是有幫助的但對於通勤運輸對於這些10萬通勤族幫助非常的小"},{"start":10883.798,"end":10901.271,"text":"這是本席要先把這件事講清楚的地方。再來通勤人數10萬大軍,天天台北基隆兩邊跑。這就是基隆人的困境。部長我剛剛跟你講的是15000人,本來是以前高峰的時候是到17000人的。"},{"start":10905.827,"end":10924.067,"text":"總數10萬,我剛才講10萬嘛。可是10萬是總數,1萬7是1萬5,現在掉到1萬5,因為快捷公車掉到1萬5,甚至到1萬3。這個是基隆人天天往台北跑的困境。那部長請問你知道說天天開車的人有多少,天天坐國道客運的人有多少嗎?"},{"start":10926.69,"end":10952.202,"text":"數字齁,我據我當時的了解是大概有5萬啦齁,5萬是這一個。所以說沒有錯,這樣加起來5萬人開車,其他4萬人搭國道客運。這也就是為什麼本席特地要拿出來這個講。因為我們國道客運現在我們知道缺工缺班次,天天你看到可憐的基隆人在臺北的街頭等車,本席陪他們等了5年。"},{"start":10954.246,"end":10979.065,"text":"在這種天氣今天晚上還是有人在外面等車現在基隆人已經可憐到說我們在高速公路上面塞著我們還可以勉強忍受但是你在路邊站著沒有車子來的時候那個怨氣是直接往本席跟政府上面發的所以說為什麼本席在一上任之後我今天在交通委員會我就是來針對國道客運的事情來討個說法"},{"start":10982.827,"end":11011.004,"text":"白天來臺北的班班客滿這個是1802這條路線1802這條路線是目前基隆市十大路線之一排名第七的路線他是從基隆到三重我們可以清楚的看到白天上班的時間從基隆到臺北班班客滿晚上下班時間從臺北到基隆班班客滿更直接的班聚來講這是基隆人的需求"},{"start":11013.141,"end":11038.027,"text":"這就是我們看到基隆人的需求班距尖峰時段跟離峰時段差非常的遠但是對於客運業者來講其實是很辛苦為什麼這樣說因為客運業者不管在什麼時候全國的客運業者都是一樣的運價補助也就是說全國都是一樣的時候基隆到台北部長請問你知道部長或者院長院長請問你知道基隆到台北到底有到底幾公里嗎"},{"start":11039.397,"end":11056.603,"text":"我不太清楚二十五公里同樣的問題也發生在桃園剛剛劉許廷、劉委員也講到他們的國道客運也是一樣問題為什麼因為從桃園到台北三十五公里可是如果你只給這樣的補助這些業者當然是入不敷出啊更何況說"},{"start":11058.291,"end":11059.553,"text":"國道客運的票價他們最近有提進來我剛才有回答過"},{"start":11073.251,"end":11079.294,"text":"市長,我可以直接跟你講,對基隆、對桃園不會有幫助的。葛瑪蘭還是一樣遭倒,國光還是一樣向你訴苦。為什麼?因為很簡單的,還是里程數的問題。你的新的票價條是給全國的,對於短程的我們並沒有特別去尊重。"},{"start":11097.145,"end":11123.977,"text":"變成是說基隆人、桃園人要離鄉背井來臺北上班的時候,他一定要做國道公車為了要省錢,為了要讓自己方便,因為不是每個人都有能力開車。院長,不是每個人都有事業,不是每個人都有能力開車,但是不管怎麼樣,他們如果在臺北上班,因為基隆沒有工作機會,基隆工作機會是少的,基隆港沒落之後基隆港工作機會少的,這是我下一個要講的議題。"},{"start":11124.577,"end":11131.778,"text":"而造成說他們必須來台北上班的時候他們就要想說我要怎麼樣9點整能夠打卡"},{"start":11133.339,"end":11156.564,"text":"那部長知道要9點整從基隆發車能夠打卡到臺北幾點要出門嗎?6點半,如果自己不開車的話,因為你在基隆就要等車啊,不是晚上你在臺北的路口等車,白天你也在基隆的路口等車,中間還要再塞三、四十五分鐘到一個小時的車,而且你到臺北之後,你不是直接到你的公司門口,你還要再轉車,轉三、四下。"},{"start":11160.163,"end":11175.237,"text":"部長也好,院長也好,你們覺得這樣的人生會是幸福的嗎?這樣的感覺會是好的嗎?所以我想整個交通的規劃很重要的就是怎麼樣快捷而且合理。那剛才我們"},{"start":11176.158,"end":11191.526,"text":"我講通則啦齁那你現在講的這一個捷運很重要然後呢國道的客運也很重要那未來在長遠來看我們需要有一個捷運讓大家不必要等很久就可以搭到車而且捷運的體系"},{"start":11192.625,"end":11216.459,"text":"在新北市、臺北市我們都可以看得到還有桃園市都是很方便的。國道的部分你剛才講到的應該檢討這一個相關的...院長不好意思容我打斷我認同你的講法捷運到基隆是好事但是在好事10年之後才能到的時候而且10年之後我們現在只到八堵"},{"start":11217.475,"end":11218.396,"text":"不好意思,讓我講很重要的一句話"},{"start":11240.649,"end":11241.029,"text":"委員 我跟你報告齁"},{"start":11258.296,"end":11280.991,"text":"談國道,因為國道走高速公路不穩定,半次,所以一般像基隆是全國公共運輸使用率第二高的城市,所以我們現在才有基隆捷運,就是說當你培養一陣子一定要捷運。第二我可以說明,那個八堵到基隆也不是不做,當時討論就是拆遷的課題沒辦法克服,"},{"start":11282.592,"end":11299.613,"text":"部長,我覺得如果比較務實一點,你講到基隆捷運到八堵,我希望規劃能夠照常理實施,我希望我在永生之年我看得到基隆捷運進基隆市區,但是比較現實的就是說你的feeder system要不要趕快做一做,也就是八堵站旁邊"},{"start":11300.754,"end":11319.644,"text":"八堵站、七堵站旁邊這些Feeder這些所謂的R字頭的公車是不是中央可以先暫時補助先把這些人養起來啊你這些人沒有養起來你之後未來說捷運到了之後你再叫他們去做來不及的這個我們跟地方一起來討論R線公車我想一講部長您就懂了"},{"start":11320.104,"end":11340.734,"text":"這個是已經有客源的已經習慣的如果未來捷運要到基隆要能夠讓他們能夠活得下去要使用率要高那R線公車不能廢現在R線公車天天基隆市政府在那邊撐著這不是正確的方法這是當初台鐵捷運化出來的時候的輔助公車現在如果捷運真的要到基隆為什麼R線公車中央不能幫忙"},{"start":11342.127,"end":11363.795,"text":"我還有另外一個更大的議題我先把這個議題講完請你好好去修改所謂的運輸業管理規則因為老實講25公里35公里就是用國道客運來計算這根本一點都不公平業者也辛苦我們搭車的人也辛苦"},{"start":11365.043,"end":11379.294,"text":"而且離峰跟尖峰不到50公里的國道客運這基本上在計算方面來講是個笑話而且最現實的離峰的時候如果沒有人坐不要讓司機累死"},{"start":11380.094,"end":11381.055,"text":"公共運輸的離婚跟監控"},{"start":11401.118,"end":11415.794,"text":"﹗"},{"start":11416.885,"end":11437.3,"text":"我是希望你們能做出例外,因為老實講這個問題不是只有基隆有,我剛剛講過,這問題不是只有基隆有,桃園也有,葛馬南客運兩條線要收了,許廷很辛苦的把他救回來,但是這樣事情其實不應該讓他發生。我們來維持一個服務品質,我們不會確保他中斷,我想說如果相關要檢討我們來討論。"},{"start":11439.755,"end":11467.634,"text":"院長,您有聽過美國一個報導說,假設你通勤的時間超過3個小時,你的生活品質、你的家庭關係就會瀕臨破裂嗎?我沒有聽過這樣的說法,但是我在美國住過滿堂一段時間。其實美國離婚率最高的地方叫做矽谷,因為他們通勤的時間,如果用通勤的話,他們通勤時間超過5個小時。很多人因為矽谷的薪水高,所以跑去矽谷。"},{"start":11469.855,"end":11497.512,"text":"同樣的狀況其實發生也在北北基陶尤其是在基隆跟臺北之間臺北市把很多基隆的精華人才吸到臺北市但是通勤的狀況導致說基隆人越來越不快樂我們基隆有三高失業率高、離婚率高跟自殺率最高這個數據我沒看過了我為什麼要這樣講呢其實根本上來講是因為失業率"},{"start":11498.789,"end":11518.627,"text":"基隆以前是40年前時間過很快40年前1984年基隆是全世界十大海港那時候基隆在十大海港排名很高將近第7最高的時候1987年排名第7那是基隆港最高的時候後來我們知道貨運轉型再加上WTO再加上港空權各方面各方面港口轉型"},{"start":11519.107,"end":11519.627,"text":"所以當失業率高、離婚率也高的時候"},{"start":11549.4,"end":11575.694,"text":"基隆港的90%以上的收入都來自貨運商港並不是大家想的郵輪港或郵輪母港本席以前在港務公司待過將近5年的時間本席曾經代表台灣代表港務公司去外面拉過航線過來本席很清楚郵輪不會賺錢郵輪提高工作機會在基隆是很困難的事情因為基隆沒有腹地"},{"start":11576.654,"end":11590.861,"text":"遊輪母港需要有人上下船之外,還要有補給跟修船的功能。您認同這句話嗎?總統當選的賴清德說,他也說他是基隆子弟,他說未來要把整個基隆港變成遊輪港。"},{"start":11591.981,"end":11615.805,"text":"我想這是部分的商港要轉為郵輪港那這個郵輪確實在全世界現在在海洋航運上是扮演一個蠻重要的角色我必須跟您談這個事情我願意花多一點時間這是他在12月24號的時候親口在媒體上面講的他希望把所有目前看起來這句話的解說是他希望把所有的貨運都移到台北港"},{"start":11617.216,"end":11633.024,"text":"那以海運的知識來講,基隆港比台北港好太多了,因為台北港你只要把64號觀音山那個隧道一出問題,所有的貨都出不去進不來。根文報告目前是這樣。不好意思讓我講完,為什麼要講完的原因是因為"},{"start":11635.787,"end":11658.853,"text":"過去幾年因為疫情我們不知道下一次什麼時候疫情會來其實疫情就跟戰爭一樣隨時可能會發生那疫情也好戰爭也好一發生的時候觀光業是最倒楣的那郵輪基本上來講是個高檔的觀光業那請問一下如果郵輪港真的在基隆出事我們行政院我們中央政府有任何補救措施嗎?"},{"start":11659.946,"end":11660.266,"text":"王部長,很多港"},{"start":11689.997,"end":11696.33,"text":"港運前輩跟我提過說您是這幾任部長裡面算比較負責比較專業的部長那我想請問你"},{"start":11697.935,"end":11721.066,"text":"基隆監獄到基隆經過的北五堵經過的五堵北五堵這些貨櫃倉儲未來是不是會變成捷運用地變成商業用地好再來你說這13000人那最後面去到台北港去因為沒有附地基本上基隆西岸你說貨都在西岸對吧西岸就是中山區那邊如果不管是東岸還是西岸的貨如果後面沒有後場的話請問這個港這個貨運怎麼做啊"},{"start":11725.208,"end":11746.347,"text":"他現在也沒有全部轉移啦。當然還沒有轉移啊。可是未來很有可能轉移。所以未來我要知道新政府未來對金融的規劃啊。現在就是郵輪跟貨就是這個客戶都兼顧了。目前是兼顧。所以我剛剛問我剛剛講說你們認不認同下一任總統賴新德賴總統當選人的說法。他應該是說要加強郵輪的這個功能。應該是加強這個郵輪功能。如果說"},{"start":11751.992,"end":11766.043,"text":"假設他的計畫真的把臺北港變成全北部第一大港,那我可以很負責的跟院長跟部長跟所有內閣報告,基隆市的交通絕對會完蛋,基隆市一定會造反。"},{"start":11767.383,"end":11770.164,"text":"剛才講過這個發展成郵輪是在東岸的部分那西岸的部分還實際上是香港的部分這剛才已經講過了"},{"start":11792.272,"end":11820.072,"text":"委員這一個整個全體的規劃我想交通部都有自己的看法當然委員你的意見很寶貴我們也願意來聆聽你的意見我們看看你的意見有什麼建議市長想一想基隆港從全球第7大港掉到現在全球排名可能的150名之外為什麼因為船隻巨大化再加上說我們沒有腹地我們真的沒有腹地唯一的腹地就是在北吳都那邊的貨櫃集散站那邊的倉儲用地"},{"start":11821.213,"end":11833.614,"text":"現在因為基隆捷運要把這些倉促用力拿掉,然後你跟我講說你們來規劃,那我很想知道說你們未來規劃怎麼樣幫基隆商港留下來,因為基隆商港如果這個功能一旦不在,一萬三千人馬上上國道。"},{"start":11834.338,"end":11851.217,"text":"市長跟委員現在都在轉型有時候就是因為全國裡面基隆的郵輪母港是所有全世界的這些遊艇業者最喜歡來的一個地方那因應這個我們才做西岸跟東岸的禮運中心我知道那個委員你也看到現在"},{"start":11851.798,"end":11856.862,"text":"我希望部長您講這句話現在媒體都在看這句話是有會議記錄的因為這是代表基隆的一萬三千人雖然你們這是一萬三千個家庭喔這是一萬三千個家庭的生計"},{"start":11875.925,"end":11894.279,"text":"這是我基隆13000那個家庭的生氣請記得這句話我再強調一次齁我們把基隆港定位為北部海運貨物的進出港以及國際郵輪的母港這是我們的定義這是在我們的國際商港未來發展及競爭的話裡面陳院長您剛剛講這些話這是在110年10月12號未來下一個執政團隊會買單"},{"start":11903.729,"end":11911.231,"text":"委員因為你是新的委員嘛我再請問一件事情我再跟你講111到115年的計畫就是剛才我講的啦不好意思我現在直接問一個最直接的事情基隆關全國57%的關稅是在基隆關"},{"start":11925.194,"end":11945.704,"text":"但是基隆港說真的基隆市說真的財政很困難基隆市的所有的公共建設基隆市的所有公共基隆市的空屋基隆市很多方面公共建設不變嚴格講起來都是基隆港帶來的沒有錯有港才有市但是我們現在基隆市36萬人全體在為了基隆港在去做我們做出犧牲"},{"start":11947.379,"end":11973.696,"text":"我想請問這種以前有一句話叫taxation without representation有付稅但是沒有代表權或taxation without benefit你要我的稅我們幫國家犧牲這麼多但是我們在這港口的城市居民沒有得到合理的對待那我想請問未來的關稅是不是可以某種程度上比例而且嚴格講起來我也必須講一句實話"},{"start":11974.659,"end":12002.702,"text":"基隆、台中、台北、新北還有高雄都自詡是海洋城市我們台灣自詡是海洋國家但是我們對港口旁邊都市的建造一點都沒有重視新北、高雄、台中是剛好是六都不是因為說我們台灣中央政府對他們這些港都、港部城市有任何的重視所以我認為說在未來不合理的關稅分配至少要分還給當地的城市"},{"start":12006.839,"end":12035.102,"text":"跟委員說明一下關稅的部分那是進入博庫來統籌分配那中央對地方有一個中央統籌分配稅款這裡面有一個指標就是那個營業額那營業額如果這個還商港在這個城市那他相對的工商活動會比較活潑那他的營業額的高那對於中央稅款的分配也可以有所回饋另外在主計總署的一般的補助款裡面對於商港城市也有加權的一個加重的"},{"start":12042.332,"end":12046.376,"text":"好,謝謝林委員沛翔的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。謝謝。接下來我們請登記第24號李委員博弈請質詢。"},{"start":12086.687,"end":12095.532,"text":"我們都來自高雄那過去院長在高雄成長的過程裡面高雄長怎樣從過去院長齊山"},{"start":12116.886,"end":12121.371,"text":"這幾年蔡英文政府的轉型之後我想拿一個最經典必須要拿出來再跟全國人民來說明的這個事情"},{"start":12139.285,"end":12168.077,"text":"日前上個禮拜台積電雄本廠在日本開幕那日本政府其實這第一個廠呢他給台積電超過1000億台幣的補助這是補助台積電的部分第二個廠聽說要加碼補助到1500億給台積電的補助這些補助不包含當地的這些地方建設包含這個鐵公路"},{"start":12168.632,"end":12198.455,"text":"包括周邊道路包括污水處理場包括工業用水等等不包含我們再如果再算一下他給這個地方政府的這些地方建設的這些補助呢其實包含水可能就高達100億台幣那包含其他的這些交通補助是超過150億台幣那我要講的是台積電目前在高雄南梓目前我們政府給予台積電多少補助"},{"start":12199.208,"end":12225.254,"text":"請問院長我們有沒有給台積電任何補助我想在台積電設廠的這個過程當中我們對於交通的建設也好或者水的供應也好等等其實都有同盤的這個規劃那當然我們這個譬如說交通的建設我們很難說單獨對台積電沒有沒有我是說單純對台積電的補助我們沒有嘛沒有沒有那我們是不是更應該對於周邊"},{"start":12228.529,"end":12251.579,"text":"將來可能影響到這個城市的改變這個城市所有的交通的建設這個城市未來可能遇到的問題都要加緊布局所以其實台積電會在高雄廠是跟經濟部有關當時在2015年關廠的時候2016年其實終有提出來當地的土屋整治的年限"},{"start":12252.489,"end":12276.441,"text":"高達17年那一年我剛好42歲17年的整治我剛好要60歲才可以看到這個中油的整治完成才有下一步中油未來要怎麼規劃所以在2020年的時候陳其邁市長就任跟經濟部跟行政院來提出用3年280億加速台積電加速中油廠區的整治所以"},{"start":12276.974,"end":12277.334,"text":"事實上整治的行程"},{"start":12303.336,"end":12304.457,"text":"所以這281是陸續到位,那什麼時候可以完成解列?"},{"start":12324.038,"end":12351.874,"text":"完成節的原來高雄市政府就希望3年可以完成,那所以這個經費其實都持續在投入當中。好,謝謝,謝謝。王部長請你先回,我等一下還會請你回來。沒有,是王美花部長回來,請王部長留下來。因為王美花部長先回的原因是因為280億已經到位,高雄市政府已經在做這個土屋的整治。目前有五分之三的廠區、台積電已經正在建廠或籌劃要建廠。"},{"start":12353.277,"end":12380.607,"text":"王部長接下來王國才部長接下來是你的工作阿在陳建宇院長在上任之後其實就已經開始在做相關的佈局齁包含今天我要質詢的兩個很重要的議題第一個就是我們的捷運紫線捷運黃線他在2017年2019年完成可開始開始動作2019年完成可行性的評估之後在去年都做了動工"},{"start":12381.414,"end":12404.929,"text":"也就是在4到5年的期間內捷運黃線把它從這個高雄的這個5G IOT園區那沿林雅區、山明區到仁武它會貫穿到一些醫療的醫療的院所包含長庚醫院那它也經過高雄醫學院我們希望捷運紫縣未來從捷運黃線的Y9站"},{"start":12407.123,"end":12427.587,"text":"從高雄醫學院往民族路往北可以連到高雄榮總再往西到左營高鐵再沿左營高鐵進入右昌社區進入高雄大學地區再進入橋頭科學園區往右延伸以前的這個高雄學園線目前這個可行性評估"},{"start":12428.209,"end":12443.724,"text":"我們已經跟交通部有爭取到可行性評估的經費請王國才部長回應這一個可行性評估的報告什麼時候出來報告出來之後行政院跟高雄市政府的合作我們希望可以拼在四年內跟捷運黃線一樣"},{"start":12444.885,"end":12468.824,"text":"可以動工。來,請王部長來說明。經過委員和以前劉少安委員的爭取,當時我們大概1680萬補可行性。就像你這裡講的,它是在6月才會完成可行性報告。這是高雄市政府在做。那它提出來以後我們會加速按照我們捷運建設的這個來審查。但是有沒有辦法追到黃線我覺得蠻困難的,黃線已經動工了。"},{"start":12471.526,"end":12500.736,"text":"我意思是說4到5年內黃線是4到5年內動工可行性評估通過之後4到5年內動工這一個就是因為我們現在捷運都是地方可行性中和各位要到施工的地方我們如果有行政程序要縮短我們來縮短那我們跟施政委員一起合作讓他加速第二題有關台鐵立體化台鐵立體化在左營跟南梓其實是非常大的一個課題這個南梓百慕達這個是全台灣最出名的"},{"start":12501.28,"end":12525.82,"text":"怎麼樣解決南子百慕達包含有通勤的功能剛好也在台積電它這個園區裡面它會有台鐵的經過如果台鐵的立體化或者是不管是地下或者是高架它其實同時會解決南子這個高架橋的問題所以在這邊也要提出來在陳院長的任內其實"},{"start":12526.468,"end":12543.386,"text":"也已經提出台鐵立體化的這個可行性報告我們也希望這個可行性報告的時程可以跟我們所有高雄的知名朋友來報告什麼時候可以完成什麼時候可以施工兩個方案差在哪裡到底高價跟地下的方案差在哪裡是不是也可以請"},{"start":12545.449,"end":12555.545,"text":"市長來做一個說明我們補了這個1265萬現在就在做齁但是他是到明年才會有一個可行性報告出來那目前他的確是從高價跟地下齁這個來討論"},{"start":12559.182,"end":12583.884,"text":"總數我不知道是應該你寫這裡168億跟570億高價比較便宜168億地下的話可能會超過576億而且地下可能還會評估到可能經過這個TSMC的園區裡面這個可能還要做相關進一步的評估跟說明他裡面大概會再加兩個通勤車站我有稍微看過他們的這個報告但是還沒有完整"},{"start":12584.384,"end":12613.571,"text":"在明年的這個明年初會提出來那同樣因為高雄鐵路地下化的這個軌道已經都下地很久了107就下地了所以我想說北沿的部分是可以開始動了可以開始動但是就是如果這個定案出來我們其實跟我們加速審查加速審查是好謝謝第三題男子交流道的引道要直接進入到這個男子產業園區裡面為什麼現在整個台南跟高雄"},{"start":12615.155,"end":12639.945,"text":"國道1號的車流量已經非常非常大未來高雄的南子產業園區的台積電園區跟台南的整個科技產業園區會形成一個聚落到時候交通用量會更大再加上左營跟南子的市區的道路我們勢必需要一條交流道引道可以進入園區請問這一條引道的進度跟經費"},{"start":12641.052,"end":12664.046,"text":"委員長,交通部到位了沒有?委員長,這個我們因為已經放在這個國科會這個送國化會審議中,審議完以後,它經費大概78.4億,我們現在整個規劃大概117年合完工,只要這個合定以後我們就細設跟施工,就馬上來進行。委員長,好,117年完工,這其實完工的"},{"start":12665.506,"end":12679.396,"text":"這個到我們完工到台積電可能園區開始有工程師進駐還有兩三年的空窗期所以我們還是要加緊所有的這些速度在這邊也感謝內政部雲建署在新台17縣從2017年趕快的從橋頭科學園區旁邊的這個橋頭進入南梓進入左雲"},{"start":12687.386,"end":12701.882,"text":"目前的進度包含南段也已經跟國防部也感謝國防部這邊有給予相關的協調方案可以順利讓這一條路可以動工之外我們期待這一條路在2026年也可以動工完成"},{"start":12702.489,"end":12731.554,"text":"那請內政部 林厚昌部長也可以對新台17線這一條路來做一個說明新台17線的部分北段的現在已經完工而且通車那南1段的部分去年動工那南2段的部分這個預計在今年4月會上網招標那這兩個部分都是預計在115年底完工那南3段的部分現在正在進行規劃跟進部長我打斷一下我先請王部長先回座"},{"start":12732.182,"end":12732.362,"text":"請國防部邱部長備詢"},{"start":12746.345,"end":12763.806,"text":"目前內政部跟高雄市政府的這一條方案國防部目前的狀況有沒有完全給予同意那對於接下來內政部跟高雄市政府的一個方案這個動工國防部有沒有相關還需要行政院這邊來配合跟支持的地方"},{"start":12764.704,"end":12779.631,"text":"所謂委員報告,對我們事件中推動,我很感激吳政務委員從中在這裏協調,高雄市政府也出了很多力,但我們軍方也很配合,直到目前為止哪一條路該擴寬或讓出來的,對我們作為很好的協調規劃。"},{"start":12781.032,"end":12783.494,"text":"在這邊也跟部長說明,我在擔任市議員的期間,也就是去年的事情還跟高雄市政府講"},{"start":12806.381,"end":12827.275,"text":"這個中海門要往內移,國防部願意同意,這個我們真的要感謝國防部之外,待拆待建的事情呢,高雄市政府也願意來出列相當的經費。那看國防部這邊有什麼需求,我們趕快把這個中海門往內移,讓未來這條新台17線以及很重要的"},{"start":12827.745,"end":12855.058,"text":"我們海軍總醫院他可以進化成社區醫院服務到社區的民眾所以這一方面我也要請院長這邊海軍總醫院未來這個醫療量能的提升以及國防部這個他的這個所有的哨口內移的這件事情配合新台期期限的這一個建設我們希望可以完全來支持國防部讓內政部國防部高雄市政府可以促成一條"},{"start":12855.919,"end":12881.296,"text":"灌川、高雄、南北非常重要的一條交通建設。院長我們來通盤來配合然後規劃進行。這個我想都是很重要。我們所有的部會都會來努力。謝謝院長。謝謝兩位部長。兩位部長也請回座。最後從2016年到2024年整個蔡英文政府整個行政院團隊"},{"start":12882.398,"end":12882.458,"text":"﹚完整會議"},{"start":12902.882,"end":12927.792,"text":"在2016年2015年中油這個場區停產之前在2016年政黨剛剛輪替的那一段時間其實中油公司提出來中油土屋的整治的期間是17年那到當然這個蔡英文政府到2020年之後我們用3年的時間把這個土屋整治完成"},{"start":12929.209,"end":12956.728,"text":"完成這個圖之外其實高雄市政府也協助中油把旁邊原本的行政區規劃成循環材料園區規劃成有商業空間有企業總部大樓但是目前中油的評估還是很牛步我來舉高雄市現在最人家說淡黃區目前有三個大案子正在進行也就是企業總部大樓正在進行高雄市的金城集團"},{"start":12957.657,"end":12982.152,"text":"他在蓋地上32層的這個商辦總樓地板面積5萬多坪高雄的藝聯集團他在異想天地的V館他在蓋地上29層他也有商業空間總樓地板面積超過4萬坪還有高雄著名的這個VOT這個地上全案富邦總樓地47樓總樓地板面積超過4萬7千坪"},{"start":12986.161,"end":12992.166,"text":"謝謝那確實高雄市政府也希望那邊做一個非常好的整體規劃那坦白講高雄中油公司也去尋找一些相關"},{"start":13018.094,"end":13027.761,"text":"謝謝林委員博弈的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。現在報告委員會上午質詢到此為止。我們下午2點30分繼續開會進行質詢。現在休息。謝謝。"},{"start":21611.226,"end":21612.667,"text":"報告院會現在繼續開會,我們進行質詢。接下來請翁委員小林質詢。"},{"start":21640.558,"end":21653.707,"text":"主席、秘書長、在座的行政院的院長、陳院長、會會所長們大家好。我先有請陳院長。請陳院長備詢。歐美文,恭喜你當選立委。是,謝謝陳院長。"},{"start":21665.965,"end":21686.244,"text":"今天是本席首次站在立法院的質詢台上執行憲法上這個神聖的權利那麼讓我有這個機會能夠基於立法委員的職責來監督行政機關那麼在我開始這個對院長您今天"},{"start":21686.96,"end":21705.66,"text":"在進行質詢之前呢,我想我在這邊先要說幾件事情。我想要先強調的就是憲法上所制定的立法委員質詢官員的制度。這個是行政院向立法院負責的一個很重要的問責機制。"},{"start":21707.32,"end":21720.767,"text":"立法委員．立委．勇問．官員才回答我希望在今天的我的質詢的這個場合裡面希望院長能夠尊重我作為立法委員的質詢權"},{"start":21721.88,"end":21749.717,"text":"所以待會在我質詢的時候我如果有請院長回答那再麻煩您答詢否則的話我不希望發生在之前這個院長跟委員同時搶劃的這樣的一個場景那麼如果說今天的這個在場的部會首長有違反剛剛我想的這樣的意識規則的話還拜託主席可以制止"},{"start":21750.902,"end":21778.622,"text":"那麼首先我想請教院長就是從1月13號我們的總統立委選舉之後您現在這個領軍的陳院長內閣是扮演一個什麼樣的角色在520賴清德總統上任之前這一段時間您認為您的內閣的角色是具有什麼樣的角色扮演什麼樣的角色以及具有什麼樣的功能"},{"start":21779.926,"end":21803.448,"text":"可以回答了嗎?是,麻煩請院長回答。好,謝謝,你這樣講我就比較清楚。我想內閣是始終如一,就是做福國利民的事情。所以現在到520為止,我們整個內閣還是承續以往為國為民來努力的這樣的一個心情,來做好所有的內閣還有各部會應該做的事情。"},{"start":21804.749,"end":21830.062,"text":"我想院長您可能誤會了您現在所扮演的角色我想您在2月1日之前您就曾經在1月18日的時候您就向蔡總統提出總辭後來也被蔡總統慰留所以您現在的內閣的角色應該是屬於我們這邊講的看守內閣、看守政府"},{"start":21831.677,"end":21843.98,"text":"請問哪一個法律有寫看守政府呢?這個不是法律,這是一個憲政的常識。您現在的角色就是看守政府,看守內閣。而看守內閣到底該做些什麼?"},{"start":21861.707,"end":21887.055,"text":"我想這是非常清楚的在西方先進的民主國家裡面看守內閣它就是一個在新政府上任之前的一個臨時政府組織那麼它基本上主要的功能就是只是在維持一般性日常的政府職能是不適合在做一些人事的任命或者是推動重大的政策以及法案"},{"start":21888.717,"end":21897.198,"text":"不知道是不是現在賴總統已經邀請您續任接下來擔任新政府的行政院長了嗎?請院長回答。"},{"start":21898.783,"end":21925.115,"text":"沒有但是你剛才講的我並不同意實際上現在的內閣還是繼續要做事不是像你這樣講的不能推動重大政策跟法案如果這樣這個內閣就是失職的內閣好謝謝您的回答謝謝您的回答我想在這邊還是要給院長一些簡單的一些憲法的一個知識你講的不對那麼在新政府上台之前"},{"start":21926.42,"end":21940.897,"text":"在所有的西方民主國家這個階段就叫做看守政府、看守內閣。就是續任的這個院長是不適合在做任何重大的政策推動您所做的"},{"start":21941.237,"end":21962.494,"text":"您所做的政策、您所做的決定,基於責任政治,難道要讓接下來的新院長承擔嗎?這個是非常簡單,請...不好意思,因為我想我剛才講得很清楚,我並沒有請您回答,我只是要告訴你一個憲法的一個教育的知識。我沒有請你回答,可以請您先中斷您的談話。"},{"start":21973.254,"end":21984.541,"text":"因此在看守政府的這段時間就像我說的是不適合做任何重大政策的推動以及法案那麼在那麼在這邊我也必須說"},{"start":21996.192,"end":22017.042,"text":"如果您再繼續推動這些重大政策跟法案的話會讓一般的民眾一般老百姓認為您是不是試圖在利用您剩餘的價值要去完成您沒有完成的事情您所謂的扶國利民的政策對於一般社會大眾而言是真的扶國利民嗎?"},{"start":22018.708,"end":22039.14,"text":"這個部分您沒有辦法代表新的民意請記住您現在的角色您是代表的您是被已經即將卸任的總統任命而不是由新任的賴清德院總統來任命除非您今天已經跟賴總統取得了默契"},{"start":22039.62,"end":22065,"text":"您即將會是行政院的這個接下來的新院長這個可能在憲法上來說可能都還會有些問題但是以您今天這樣的態度我認為您其實並不了解民主憲政的真諦這個是我在這邊要提醒您作為一個看守政府現在是不適合做任何的這個重要的政策那麼接下來"},{"start":22066.462,"end":22087.245,"text":"我就要講在您現在最近我們看到新聞上面以及從您行政院政策官網上面來看我們看到了其實有幾個重要的政策基本上都不適合在看守內閣的情況之下所做的決定包含我們重申要禁止這個組團到大陸旅遊"},{"start":22088.507,"end":22109.644,"text":"以及最近勞動部才剛簽署的臺印勞工合作備忘錄以及又推動2025年到2028年的地方創生計劃以及又陸陸續續的提出了一些重大的法案像電子簽章法還有全國性的公民投票、不在籍投票等等這些法案"},{"start":22110.385,"end":22131.127,"text":"我必須說這些法案並不是完全沒有爭議而且它基本上涉及非常多復雜的權益關係我們也知道其實社會上對於這樣的政策及法案都有很多的意見那麼在今天的這樣的一個場合以您的作為一個看守"},{"start":22131.847,"end":22160.249,"text":"政府看守內閣基本上根本不應該繼續去推動要了解我們2月1號我們立法委員就職我們是新國會新民意的產生我們沒有必要再去針對您現在所推動的法案來多進行詢問我問了您之後您接下來如果不是行政院院長我不是白費口舌跟您討論那麼多所以我必須再次的提醒您必須要了解"},{"start":22160.751,"end":22166.786,"text":"您今天作為一個看守政府的行政院院長您的職責、您的角色"},{"start":22171.977,"end":22190.849,"text":"所以我不希望看到我們現在的行政院的各部會你們在利用憲法上法律上或行政上面的剩餘價值去推動你們過去那8年沒有完的推動完的政策如果那是那麼重要的話為什麼不早早做要剩下這3個月還要來做呢接下來當然在這個"},{"start":22201.766,"end":22201.866,"text":"主席"},{"start":22222.677,"end":22250.32,"text":"今年你預計要做些什麼你的施政重點因為您剛剛說了您也不會是下一任的行政院院長所以我接下來呢我想我不會為難院長對一些您可能做不到的事情去做些承諾那我希望接下來我想和院長一起來談談來檢視您這個行政團隊這些年來的施政成績"},{"start":22251.988,"end":22272.919,"text":"我在這裡特別關注幾個問題,包含近期的就是進團令的問題。這個當然我在一些新聞媒體上面已經有表達過我的意見,但是我還是同樣覺得非常奇怪的就是明明這個禁止觀光業者去大陸組團,"},{"start":22274.87,"end":22302.231,"text":"的限制當時的法源依據是依據是有新冠肺炎條例那時候成立了中央疫情指揮中心所以呢發布了種種的限制措施可是在去年的7月1號新冠肺炎特別條例已經廢止了所有的法制都應該要回歸常態既然"},{"start":22303.857,"end":22323.129,"text":"禁止組團去大陸的旅遊的這個法令限制已經不復存在。那麼為什麼還要持續限制呢?在這裡我想請院長或是請您可以指定您的這個部長回答。"},{"start":22323.959,"end":22351.271,"text":"如果照你剛才這樣講的說這個部會還有院長現在所做的事情回答的都不算數你今天是在浪費時間請注意您的發言您現在是在進行反質詢嗎我剛才一開始有講到就是說這個是立法委員的質詢權利我請您注意我從學界來我很不願意用不理性的問政我也是是的所以我希望我們能夠站在一個"},{"start":22353.097,"end":22355.578,"text":"我剛已經講了我是要跟你一起重新檢視過去這8年來你們所做的施政的問題難道我不應該這麼問嗎"},{"start":22378.746,"end":22379.888,"text":"執行是上對下嗎?執行是上對下嗎?"},{"start":22392.205,"end":22394.806,"text":"時間暫停這個是行政院對立法院負責這一點我特別要提醒大家也請委員跟官員之間大家互相尊重"},{"start":22417.162,"end":22445.716,"text":"那接下來你們是不願意回答我剛剛所提的問題到底法源依據何在嗎?如果不願意的話我可以繼續闡述那請那個部長先回答各位報告禁條案例的確新冠肺炎特別條例會址已經不用了我們現在適用發展觀光條例跟旅行業管理規則那旅行業管理規則賦予我們觀光署有監督管理職責然後在發展觀光條例裡面對於損害國家利益"},{"start":22446.274,"end":22467.573,"text":"我們解釋這是損害國家利益所以就透過我們理性管理規則本一行政權來宣布說這個事情這個整個組團是從3月1日到5月底那個6月以後就看他對方的善意來處理我想我們的確已經轉換到這個理性管理規則跟發展觀光條例來處理"},{"start":22469.761,"end":22491.871,"text":"委員我可以補充嗎不需要我還沒有問到您不好意思是這樣的因為從各個新聞媒體還有包含陸委會跟交通部、觀光署、經濟部都有曾經共同說有開會大家在進行這個相關的這個行政規劃那麼我只是想請教這個行政規劃的法律性質是什麼"},{"start":22495.075,"end":22495.576,"text":"請部長回答"},{"start":22516.252,"end":22543.786,"text":"我想這個不管是八百億觀光基金還是什麼我現在問的非常簡單就是一指行政計畫它是法律嗎?它是行政命令嗎?它可以不好意思我還沒有講完我也沒有問你可以用一個不是法律不是法規命令來限制人民的基本權利嗎?這個部分我希望"},{"start":22547.86,"end":22567.761,"text":"處長您回去不好意思部長您回去可以好好想一想你們的理由在於說如果我們的旅行業者去了大陸他的組團的經營行為就已經損害了國家利益對那麼依據發展觀光條例第53條的規定您剛剛已經有說到了"},{"start":22572.177,"end":22588.922,"text":"請再讀一下這個條文。觀光旅館業、旅行業等等有損害國家利益,才處罰款。請問他們有損害國家利益嗎?"},{"start":22590.725,"end":22608.633,"text":"我不知道什麼時候我們的發展觀光條例的規定是有處罰欲備犯嗎?你是已經心裡面有所知道他即將要犯罪嗎?我們刑法上面是禁止處罰欲備犯的。"},{"start":22610.503,"end":22631.437,"text":"我不知道一個行政法規可以這麼做嗎?你們可以做這樣的解釋嗎?你們今天這樣解釋簡直是讓我側目結舌。我不知道為什麼交通部的觀光署法制沒有法制人員嗎?不知道跟部長您這邊做解釋嗎?這樣子的損害國家利益可以做這樣解釋嗎?"},{"start":22633.7,"end":22655.459,"text":"請部長回答所謂國家利益我剛才已經談到了啦就是觀光利差跟像N503嘛那我們現在是這樣就是不好意思好謝謝部長回答我知道了所以因為有利差就叫做損害觀光損害國家利益那我們跟太多國家都有利差呀但是呢但是呢我們"},{"start":22657,"end":22681.682,"text":"就是跟中國逆差就不行跟大陸逆差就不行我覺得這樣子的說法這個是不能夠讓一般的民眾所接受好 那麼大人除了我知道交通部的為難其實我知道這個政策也不是交通部自己一個可以做的它畢竟是一個幾個部會大家一起決定的所以陸委會看起來也有角色是嗎"},{"start":22682.982,"end":22699.766,"text":"請主委回答第一個我想先從前面的開始我想剛剛委員可能對於所謂的政策的延續可能把它擴大到所有的政策都是重大政策這個是兩個的因為你剛剛講這個進團令是重大政策所以我要從是不是重大政策開始做這個剛剛的解釋對不對"},{"start":22708.328,"end":22730,"text":"不用了,好,謝謝您,我想我這邊保留我的...因為你剛剛講禁團業是重大政策嘛,所以我要從重大政策開始講起啊。沒問題,再一次呼籲,好不好,這個請繼續,翁委員,請繼續。對,剛剛好像佔用了我10秒鐘的時間,麻煩要幫我加回來,謝謝。"},{"start":22732.998,"end":22747.551,"text":"我在這邊要給陸委會一個提醒如果你們今天真的是想要限制我們的觀光旅遊業者的這個組團去大陸的權利也請你們依法律做一個明確的決定"},{"start":22748.692,"end":22773.735,"text":"我這裡都幫你們找好法條了大家看一看在我們兩岸人民關係條例的第9條第9項裡面有提到對不對你如果說你因為考慮到兩岸的這個重大利益等等的你要對臺灣地區進入人民進入大陸地區才行禁止限制或其他必要的措施那麼也請你們把這個你們"},{"start":22775.706,"end":22786.464,"text":"預備要做的措施送立法院讓我們決議這個不是你們說的算我要再加強調這不是你們說的算"},{"start":22789.076,"end":22807.332,"text":"我真的很感慨就是我們為什麼臺灣這個政府的行政官員尤其是部會首長你們難道忘記你們是行政機關要依法行政嗎?法律是你們所有行為的這個準則可是你們今天好像無視於法律的存在"},{"start":22810.619,"end":22816.1,"text":"接下來我想要再講的第二件事情就是我個人非常關心臺灣的新聞媒體環境"},{"start":22841.567,"end":22869.436,"text":"最近其實我們都知道其實臺灣新聞媒體越來越難經營整個廣電媒體這個頻道電視有線電視都是一樣的在最近市場上面還有一個傳聞就是說這個富邦集團的蔡明忠董事長打算要淡出電視頻道他打算要賣掉他這個經營多年的MOMO TV因為"},{"start":22871.038,"end":22880.564,"text":"他認為電視頻道市場已經榮景不再準備要轉換跑到去轉去投資數位頻道了"},{"start":22882.022,"end":22906.269,"text":"那麼看到這個新聞我當然感慨萬千啦因為我也知道就是隨著網路媒體的發展而且是沒有過多限制給他們比較多的自由發展的空間所以呢網路媒體的發展是非常的蓬勃但是相較於平面媒體和廣電媒體的經營環境則大不如前現在的經營廣電媒體業者或是新聞的平面媒體業者"},{"start":22907.089,"end":22932.545,"text":"他們基本上已經不太敢奢求還有什麼高獲利能夠收支打平就這個謝天謝地能夠圖生存求生存圖文保就不錯了當然我也不認為政府應該要給予這些廣電媒體產業或者是說普一般來說的新聞媒體產業有過多的這個輔助扶植因為基於我認同在我們談到這個"},{"start":22934.747,"end":22945.26,"text":"新聞媒體法上面有一個很重要的國家應該要與媒體保持一個遠距原則那麼所以我認為政府其實不該介入"},{"start":22945.868,"end":22964.94,"text":"媒體的這個扶植發展但是也不應該要給媒體太多的限制現在我們看到我們整個的管制環境是給媒體太多的束縛綁手綁腳制定了非常多不必要而且沒有意義的管制措施讓他們無法施展"},{"start":22966.516,"end":22979.012,"text":"我這個圖是我從這個NCC在112年才剛公佈的這個通訊傳播事業的這個報告書裡面所擷取的我自己呢又在幫你們補劃上了112年的這個有線電視訂戶數跟普及率"},{"start":22985.069,"end":23007.119,"text":"的這個圖表大家可以看得非常清楚從105年106年當時我們的有線電視的家庭普及率都還有高達六成都還有六成我記得我當年謝謝委員說那個時候大概還有七成那麼105年106年之後就差不多只剩六成大家看看在現在從106年之後"},{"start":23011.129,"end":23014.132,"text":"有限電視訂戶數以及普及率明顯地下降,至少從60%減少到48%,這個是非常非常大的一個差距。"},{"start":23031.468,"end":23051.955,"text":"那麼訂戶也少了將近70萬大家知道這個對於業者來講這個大概一年就是10億的損失可能都還不止那麼看到這樣的狀況其實我想問問看請問院長您看到這張圖您有什麼看法"},{"start":23053.31,"end":23073.962,"text":"實在在變遷所以有限電視自然而然的就會訂付率會下降家庭普及率會下降這不只在臺灣全世界都是這樣那當然這個業者本身要妥善的經營政府呢實際上已經給業者很好的經營的這個法規的這個訂定那世界潮流很難逆轉"},{"start":23075.388,"end":23092.504,"text":"世界潮流很難逆轉。你剛才也講過。是的,我知道因為是網路媒體的發展,但是我知道很多國家都還非常積極努力的要去維持Cable TV的市場。大家不要忘記了其實有線電視仍然是我們台灣的主要的"},{"start":23093.164,"end":23093.645,"text":"﹚主流媒體"},{"start":23123.004,"end":23150.757,"text":"的廣電訴訟案件的訴訟費用。那麼大家可以看到我現在這邊這個圖表上面所顯示的是他目前為止已經定驗的訴訟案件。據我了解目前還有80幾件的訴訟案件是在高等行政法院。你們可以看到我們的訴訟費用也是從106年開始直線攀高。請問院長這代表什麼意義?"},{"start":23152.659,"end":23153.279,"text":"這個圖大家都有不同的看法"},{"start":23168.686,"end":23187.309,"text":"但是呢一旦有訴訟的案件我們就應該要來好好的讓司法來相信司法尊重司法而且司法已經有做過很好的審判審判的結果呢你也很清楚我就不用再多說了好的OK好了謝謝接下來不要浪費我的時間我要趕快來講了"},{"start":23188.23,"end":23191.993,"text":"總共有30件,其中NCC勝訴20件,敗訴10件,它的敗訴率高達三成,這個在一般的行政機關是非常罕見的,大家可以去看看公平會,公平會所做的這個"},{"start":23215.031,"end":23241.181,"text":"的處分他的不服率他的這個訴訟率他的勝訴率是遠遠高於這個NCC敗訴率大概也頂多只有10%左右我從這張圖我只是想反映一件事情就是NCC法NCC委員的法律和廣電媒體專業能力不足因此做出的處分常常會有嚴重的法律瑕疵媒體業者不服所以呢這個徵送"},{"start":23243.737,"end":23260.525,"text":"委員 這個訴訟案只是117年我沒有請您回答陳主委不好意思請你尊重我作為立法委員的質詢的權利那麼不僅是業者不服連行政法院也直接打臉在"},{"start":23261.755,"end":23281.438,"text":"我去有很多的案件我都可以看到行政法院基本上是撤銷NCC的原處分所以從上下這兩張圖裡面我可以看得到就是說大家知道NCC的這個監理的績效他的成績單是每況愈下一落千丈但是他的訴訟業務卻是蒸蒸日上形成非常大的反差"},{"start":23283.867,"end":23305.446,"text":"當然NCC這幾年的施政不佳是大家社會普遍都有這樣的認知尤其是我想陳主委您在領軍NCC的這幾年其實爭議不斷我在這邊因為時間的關係我也不再贅述我想這幾個案件都是眾所矚目的案件"},{"start":23307.128,"end":23322.721,"text":"不好意思,我並沒有請教您。正所謂降帥無能,累死三軍。其實NCC它有一群非常優秀的事務官幕僚,我在NCC待過,我非常清楚NCC的幕僚,不好意思,請您尊重我質詢權利。"},{"start":23326.225,"end":23348.508,"text":"但是在高度政治化的NCC主委以及委員會的帶領之下我現在發現在NCC裡面是政治凌駕專業政治凌駕依法行政原本應該是中立獨立的行政機關要維護言論自由維護新聞自由但是現在卻變成像是警總"},{"start":23350.538,"end":23351.579,"text":"我們會被說明我們業務報告所歡迎委員提問"},{"start":23371.961,"end":23371.981,"text":"時間暫停"},{"start":23385.031,"end":23401.557,"text":"那麼根據立法委員職權行使法的22條的精神對於委員質詢之答覆是由行政院院長或諮詢委員指定之有關部會首長答覆委員如果沒有指定敬請部會首長不要搶答法謝謝請繼續時間繼續"},{"start":23405.715,"end":23432.816,"text":"我認為現在台灣媒體環境最該改革的其實不見得是媒體業者而是監督機關NCC。NCC委員會的非專業化和政治化已經失去作為獨立機關的基本資格,比一般行政機關都還不如。我本席認為黨政軍退出媒體已經不是重點,黨政軍退出NCC才是當前改革的重點。"},{"start":23434.258,"end":23442.71,"text":"接下來我還要再反映一件事情就是有關於在選舉期間的新聞媒體報導的這個事情大家知道其實這個"},{"start":23446.271,"end":23461.034,"text":"安歇歇在2020年總統選舉裡面曾經針對中天新聞台不該挺韓等等的在當時做了很多的處分都是針對選舉的新聞報導可是在2024年我們才剛剛經過的總統選舉安歇歇"},{"start":23468.556,"end":23471.617,"text":"有沒有依職權開始進行調查?"},{"start":23471.617,"end":23478.139,"text":"有線電視新聞台的新聞報導和政論節目到底有沒有特別偏袒某個候選人?"},{"start":23478.139,"end":23480.78,"text":"有沒有特別打壓某個候選人?"},{"start":23480.78,"end":23490.543,"text":"那麼電視灌票的問題基本上非常嚴重。陳炳宏教授投書說三立財經台在開票的"},{"start":23492.024,"end":23501.2,"text":"一分五十五秒就已經開出了千百萬的票。NCC有去查核嗎?對於電視灌票的事情"},{"start":23515.097,"end":23523.806,"text":"好,謝謝翁委員小林的質詢,也謝謝院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第26位蔡委員易瑜質詢。"},{"start":23540.546,"end":23568.392,"text":"謝謝院長,我們有請陳院長再請陳院長備詢跟經濟部王部長請王部長備詢蔣委員,午安院長好這陣子事實上台積電對於所謂他們的先進封測那要考慮在嘉義科學園區來做一個落腳那如果以先進封測大概是未來的台積電的趨勢"},{"start":23569.697,"end":23589.853,"text":"因為他們未來的封測不是單純的像過去的傳統封測他們未來是朝向3D然後更多維的面向可以把他們的晶片可以有更高程度的一個發揮所以像這個封測場落腳嘉義這個對嘉義來講是一個大概是驚天動地啦就像說人家太保爪跌宕這個就是知道說可能今天有一個很重要的消息啦"},{"start":23598.783,"end":23612.779,"text":"但是我想台積電要來我們一定要面對的就是水跟電一定要供應無餘那所以我想要在這裡請教院長以及部長就是說我們捐救水的部分來討論"},{"start":23614.06,"end":23629.611,"text":"就說水的部分大概之前跟王部長也有討論說朝向幾個面向有包括要再生水廠那如果再生水廠的話我想請教我們行政院規劃嘉義來設置再生水廠它的期程以及它的範圍要怎麼看呢?"},{"start":23633.551,"end":23659.745,"text":"短期之內就是說對於這個用水比較大的這些企業那我們一定會事先來規劃那包括短期用相關的原來的水源那後來再增加這個再生水場那再生水這個部分呢內政部一定會跟地方政府來協調因為再生水一定要接管那所以對地方的這個接管部分那互相要搭配的問題那這個"},{"start":23661.306,"end":23687.301,"text":"我們什麼時候要開始呢?在用水需要之前一定都會做好相關的準備。一定要先準備嘛。所以我們事實上也想要就是說確認說我們這個再生水那到底接管的範圍是指單就太保釋還是說要擴及到鄰近包括鋪子啦包括路草甚至水上這鄰近的鄉鎮都把它納為再生水的一個範圍當然"},{"start":23688.302,"end":23718.234,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":23719.459,"end":23722.793,"text":"接下來就是除了再生水,像這個海淡廠,"},{"start":23723.905,"end":23750.593,"text":"海淡廠的部分因為我們現在目前院裡面通過的是新竹跟台南那後續針對高雄甚至針對嘉義那我們都會先做掀起的評估那評估如果有需要的時候我們再會提出詳細的計畫去送審部長我想這個大概就是希望可以加速因為台積電的封測廠在嘉義我覺得對嘉義來說除了"},{"start":23753.374,"end":23766.142,"text":"台積電在嘉義這六個月以外更加重要的是帶動整個嘉義它的基礎設施可以朝向進步的城市然後大前往前大邁向一大步這樣好不好"},{"start":23771.206,"end":23788.496,"text":"對臺灣來講,就是這些先進的封裝不斷在臺灣擴廠,它其實也有非常重要的實質的意義,代表臺灣的重要性。包括說台積電它需要很多綠電,所以我們現在加以沿海大概是整個光電的一個優先區。"},{"start":23790.237,"end":23804.375,"text":"那大概從役主部帶到公使,光電這麼多。所以這裡的光電要怎麼用專線的方式然後把它拉回到嘉義科學園區。這個中間也需要包括說要生壓站,然後要蓋新的一個變電廠。"},{"start":23805.476,"end":23826.745,"text":"我認為這可能除了蓋,然後跟地方的溝通也很重要。所以我覺得我們早點去補,讓我們這裡的市民也可以知道說,未來我們要朝向上去努力。所以有部分的一些設施要來興建,那我想這個溝通都應該要提早來起步。是,那像台積電這種廠商,"},{"start":23827.705,"end":23845.828,"text":"﹗"},{"start":23845.888,"end":23866.807,"text":"部長還有那個馬籌厚園區嘛那如果以我們前次在園區這邊有討論到的就是說未來是不是馬籌厚園區因為它臺坦的部分它大概有100多公頃它的產業園區開發起來臺坦分配100多公頃這100多公頃耶未來是不是把它變成大概就是台積電的"},{"start":23869.149,"end":23884.799,"text":"上下游的一個原料及設備的一個供應鏈,然後把它這個馬槽後變成一個原中原,那中間的部分可能就需要經濟部、產業園區這邊先來先行承租,是不是這部分也要快點發動?"},{"start":23885.76,"end":23911.688,"text":"是是那因為那個台積電的先進製程跟先進封裝在臺灣的話確實會帶多更多的供應鏈那這個供應鏈包括本地的供應鏈跟外國的供應鏈都會有這個增加的需求那所以我們會積極來這樣的招商那第二個就是落地的部分那確實這個碼頭後還有相關的用地那我們也會積極讓相關的半導體的供應鏈可以來成型"},{"start":23913.408,"end":23934.518,"text":"事實上要真的很感謝行政院那大概這陣子來對嘉義事實上對我們幫忙頗多幫我們做一些產業落腳的一些提前佈局我們要謝謝蔡委員蔡委員努力爭取我們當然就是我們在我們林議代表在旁邊配合真的行政院大力的一個協助"},{"start":23934.718,"end":23934.958,"text":"衛福部"},{"start":23965.796,"end":23974.544,"text":"文化部,委員部長備選院長,下一個題目這比較嚴重,叫備言上的哀問事實上這個就有點講到就是說從大法官617號解釋"},{"start":23983.651,"end":24010.584,"text":"事實上617解釋就是針對刑法235號。235號是針對617號解釋針對刑法235條做一個合憲但是限縮的解釋也就是幫猥褻物品把他分為兩大類一個叫做硬蕊一個叫做一個屬於軟蕊那如果是硬蕊的部分他可能就涉及到的性暴力啦、性虐待、人獸交這一種是沒有藝術性、醫學性跟教育性的"},{"start":24011.064,"end":24028.36,"text":"那如果是在軟尾的話他就說上述要件外除以刺激或滿足性慾而令一般人感受不能忍受且未加封套或警語等安全隔離措施所以大法官是在這個情況之下他是有條件的開放所謂的軟尾"},{"start":24029.361,"end":24029.381,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":24053.742,"end":24075.119,"text":"從抽象的猥褻到具體的他的防護措施好那所以這個是在大法官他開了這樣的一個解釋然後未來應該大家要這樣去適用但是我們現在我們在兒童性剝削防治條例第二條第三十六條第三十八條他一樣是用的叫做"},{"start":24077.06,"end":24093.025,"text":"你不管是拍攝、製造那跟兒童以及少年性影像或性相關而客觀上足以性慾或羞恥的圖畫語音或其他物品那基於這個兒少法"},{"start":24095.226,"end":24115.538,"text":"第46條所謂有一個愛運的一個機構那這個機構後來也擴充了解釋他認為說他沒有特別指涉法條中的圖畫是指虛擬或者真人也就是說你他只要屬於虛擬的他一樣是適用兒少性剝削的防治條例這樣起來大概"},{"start":24116.118,"end":24132.848,"text":"我們可以想像上的就是很多虛擬的人物虛擬的人物他只要看起來像小朋友看起來像兒少也不用說小朋友所謂的兒少是指18歲以下所以18歲以下只要他看起來像是青年18歲以下的"},{"start":24133.328,"end":24135.109,"text":"他認為說這樣的話對於所謂虛擬的創作是很大的打壓然後用看起來感覺的主觀判定這個對於網路上是非常的一個不利"},{"start":24150.077,"end":24167.93,"text":"所以我們現在來在下一頁就進入了所謂網路的大戒嚴時代那這個聽起來就很嚴重了所以我們也可以取得很多的一個照片這個照片都是我們童年的回憶事實上這些照片的影像雖然我們以前在看"},{"start":24169.011,"end":24169.031,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":24182.793,"end":24183.833,"text":"我有什麼答案啊?一千歲"},{"start":24210.627,"end":24216.195,"text":"齁,他超過一千歲了啦,他們都一看起來,怎麼這麼年輕啊,超過一千歲,所以他不屬於喔。"},{"start":24217.63,"end":24241.536,"text":"這個角色是不屬於這個兒少的、兒少色情的範圍。然後再下一頁。這個畫面我們從小都看到大。這是七龍珠。悟空跟布馬。一個12歲一個16歲。當然以現在這個虛擬人物到現在他們也長大了都已經做阿公、做阿嬤。可是這是他們年輕時候的一個部分的一個畫面。那這樣又屬於這個兒少的範圍。"},{"start":24243.925,"end":24266.688,"text":"所以我想要請教我們在場的各位對於這樣的一個管制措施然後讓網路炸鍋那這個是我們行政我們要的目的嗎?我們當時候為了要保護兒少有要連這樣的一屬於網路創作的這一塊全部都把它一螺框限制住嗎?來 這個是不是請"},{"start":24268.578,"end":24269.982,"text":"國務委員報告這個是在法條裡面本來對圖像就有"},{"start":24275.931,"end":24300.459,"text":"是列入到這個管制的範圍但是過去對什麼樣的圖像屬於青少年那有一個標準就是什麼眼睛的比例等等這一些那我有跟我們部裡面的同仁討論過可能這樣子形式的審查是不太恰當的因為他會牽涉到會影響到創作的自由"},{"start":24301.095,"end":24327.95,"text":"所以要判斷他是否為兒少而有同時又有這個猥褻等等的這一個的內容的話應該不能去脈絡化而是要整個去看到底他所指的是是不是在這一個前後的整個的劇情裡面是不是他就是指涉的是兒少那第二個到底他是不是這個所謂的剛剛"},{"start":24328.82,"end":24356.791,"text":"委員所提到的這個猥褻的內容。這個還是有一個審查跟認定的過程。依我的看法啦,那個次元就是虛擬的人物,連管都不用管。那事就創作。因為在大法官解釋617號有講,617號他就是軟蕊,他剛剛就是軟蕊。那軟蕊勒,他就叫做那個叫做層次的法律保留。層次化。他就必須要包裝,他的網路必須要進去的時候告訴他是18禁。"},{"start":24358.414,"end":24371.996,"text":"他的管理是到這裡喔他不是在用後面的角度去認定說你這個是屬於這個兒少社群那你需要被管理那就會像我再舉更多例子你會覺得越來越矛盾來再下一頁"},{"start":24373.716,"end":24380.8,"text":"創作人物,二創,這歷史人物,這兩三千歲了,三國時代的人。這個三國志有講,這個張飛,三國志貴略夏侯淵狀,這個張飛,他說他去喬駿這個地方去砍柴的時候,看到這個女生叫做夏侯氏,差不多13、14歲。"},{"start":24397.931,"end":24420.252,"text":"然後被張飛所得,張飛得知他是梁家女子,就把他取為妻室。然後後來二串就跑出來了,這個曾三國無雙八代。張飛這個看起來大老粗,這位女子才13、14歲。啊張你如果這個要管理,那不是很矛盾嗎?然後再下一月。"},{"start":24421.65,"end":24448.301,"text":"那如果你要管的話,到底什麼是藝術品?什麼是兒童色情咧?我現在用的就是法國弗羅宮,他這個圖叫做破壺,然後這個女生也是未成年,這個女的也是未成年喔,然後他就帶著一個水壺,然後水壺破掉,這暗示什麼大家也知道。然後在旁邊這一個叫做7歲的盧維娜莎女王的伊莉莎白。好,接下來,時間要補了。"},{"start":24449.982,"end":24456.489,"text":"唐詩山白首李白的長歌詩17、15、16都是在說少女時代的時尊所以你要講"},{"start":24459.145,"end":24466.25,"text":"﹖三、4月5日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":24485.542,"end":24509.861,"text":"有被害人來大聲說,誒,這個擔心就是要罵我,就在講我,要罵我欺負人,所以這個纏綱要跳出來分,部長這樣讓人們理解嗎?我舉了很多例子吧,這例子都是庶民到臺灣去講,如果這些都是兒少的話,太可怕了。"},{"start":24521.421,"end":24525.444,"text":"好,謝謝蔡委員易於的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第27號羅委員庭委質詢。請。好,謝謝院長。有請院長,謝謝。"},{"start":24544.973,"end":24565.689,"text":"麻煩請新任陳院長備詢首先我可能也會關心NCC主委陳耀祥陳主委羅永文恭喜你當選立委院長謝謝您的恭喜謝謝我想請問一下NCC主委來了謝謝"},{"start":24571.778,"end":24587.268,"text":"主委我想剛剛歐委員有提到在NCC這幾年有許多的爭議我想這些紛紛擾擾也都在你上一次有提到可能就不會再繼續擔任主委這一職我想請問一下NCC主委"},{"start":24588.138,"end":24612.566,"text":"陳主委請問一下你卸任後的人生規劃方便跟大家提供一下嗎?我在媒體上講得很清楚我是要回學校去任教因為我卸掉時間已經8年了已經到任了要回去教書好的那另外請問陳院長4位NCC的委員即將在7月要屆滿那我想這個4月底前要提名請問您目前有沒有這個提名的人選或者是條件"},{"start":24613.346,"end":24631.897,"text":"我們現在請各界來推薦那這個條件當然是具有電信資訊傳播法律或財經等專業學士或者是有實務經驗的這些人才我們來網絡他們來作為我們向大院推薦的這個人選"},{"start":24633.018,"end":24660.088,"text":"主委謝謝您剛剛有說出是條件那目前有沒有人選已經開始在稍微面試當然我們陸陸續續有請各界來推薦已經看起來應該是有人選了那沒關係就還在了解嘛是當然等你方便公佈的時候時間到了以後我們就會一定準時來向大院推薦主委謝謝您OK那另外我想有一些在我準備要跟您詢問之前另外有想詢問幾個問題"},{"start":24661.772,"end":24677.389,"text":"我想中國搶奪邦交國的企圖從未停歇那院長我想現在12個邦交國關係是否都穩固最穩固的你心中可不可以跟我們分享一下我想我們跟各個邦交國現在就是邦誼都相當的不錯"},{"start":24677.99,"end":24681.111,"text":"您心目中有沒有覺得最穩固的是哪一個國家?您印象最深刻的呢?"},{"start":24705.027,"end":24732.372,"text":"沒有 院長您自己印象深刻的我印象深刻的其實有蠻多的搬家國跟我們都相當好啊方便舉例嗎現在這方面我不方便啦沒關係沒關係那之前傳出帛琉有可能跟台灣斷交啦齁那大陸就想要挖牆角還要開架嘛說要訂滿所有帛琉飯店的房間結果華航宣布從7月起一週要變成4班航班"},{"start":24733.052,"end":24736.735,"text":"我想這是難道要挽救邦交國嗎?"},{"start":24736.735,"end":24738.115,"text":"有這麼多人要搭嗎?"},{"start":24738.115,"end":24751.945,"text":"是否有政治考量?回來委員的問題,有關於我們台灣跟帛琉的關係的確是非常的穩固,這個絕對沒有問題。但是我們跟帛琉之間的關係有很多的層面必須要進行合作。"},{"start":24752.421,"end":24771.282,"text":"那我們在那個疫情之前每週就有試班所以從疫情開始簡單之後我們就逐漸的恢復那今年的夏天應該可以是恢復到那個疫情前的這個狀況那我想這個對帛琉來講也是一個好消息所以是因應疫情準備要回溫之前的一個狀態是 是嗎 好 OK"},{"start":24772.145,"end":24799.111,"text":"好那謝謝那以下呢我有準備幾個問題想要先詢問院長其中四個是是非題啦那其中一題是簡答題請院長簡單的回答我就可以了部長謝謝您謝謝這五題很簡單我想不需要靠其他人院長就有辦法自己來回答那我們先來看一下Paul Poe我想詢問一下院長行政院所屬各機關及之下是政府辦理答覆立法委員質詢案件的處理原則院長您知不知道這個原則呢"},{"start":24800.644,"end":24828.732,"text":"我不太清楚這2016年的這個105年1月有修正那我想以現在來說應該都還適用給您參考一下但沒關係我會在後面再繼續說明依據原則的第九點來說本院交達之質詢案件如為代理代判院稿案件各機關應於第六點所定的秘書長所含文到十日內用院函回復立法院"},{"start":24829.432,"end":24843.56,"text":"我想換句話說,最簡單的講就是資料最慢10天內要回覆,對嗎?欸,照這個文章上是這樣寫OK好,那我們再來看齁,食安法第5條規定PTT,那我想這個"},{"start":24844.76,"end":24860.989,"text":"委員長這個應該您非常熟悉您是公衛專家啦齁那我們再來看看食安法的第40條規定喔可以簡單的來說就是各級主管機關在發布預警措施時對於所發布的食品衛生檢驗資訊時也應該同時公佈檢驗方法檢驗的單位還有結果判斷依據這樣子的簡單解讀對嗎?"},{"start":24871.526,"end":24887.57,"text":"對但是這裡有一個很重要的一個關鍵就是檢驗的結果必須是正確無誤的正確科學我之前有看到您有提到這樣子的一個質詢答覆我沒有問題沒有意見OKOK但是我想跟您詢問一下"},{"start":24888.19,"end":24913.865,"text":"再來就是我的簡答題跟您詢問,院長106年您身為中華民國的副總統,當時大家都說您是大人哥,還記得吧?那106年4月彰化地區的蛋機廠,雞蛋被驗出代澳星含量超標的事件。雞蛋到底怎麼會有代澳星?請說明源頭到底在哪裡?怎麼發生?最後結果怎麼樣?這個部分院長您可以回答我嗎?"},{"start":24915.206,"end":24917.568,"text":"根據輸入藥物邊境抽查的檢驗辦法第20條規定"},{"start":24942.91,"end":24957.577,"text":"報驗醫務人於收受前項通知時,次日起15日內得向查驗機關申請復驗,但以一次為限復驗時由查驗機關就原抽取餘存樣品之。對不對?"},{"start":24959.555,"end":24986.337,"text":"這是法律規定的法律規定的嘛就是要抽樣品而且是原樣的抽樣餘品好那謝謝院長以上的答覆那我想我們繼續往下看我想院長您知道戴奧辛旦有被監察院糾正嗎您看一下這個糾正文監察院在106年1月8日糾正文呈現以下的事實一"},{"start":24987.662,"end":24997.07,"text":"清楚直接的點名找出源頭是中央政府的責任不是地方政府。二、戴奧欽的事實是存在的"},{"start":24998.086,"end":25021.316,"text":"所以糾正當時的環保署農委會待於行政業務的踐行。三、若當時的農委會或環保署將此視為單一事件僅以產品端進行檢驗或驗證的時候,卻未能正視問題並積極地追查、防堵、待澳新污染食安的事件,仍將層出不窮。"},{"start":25022.436,"end":25035.651,"text":"執行末端的食品安全查驗的人員或者是下架的人員都會疲於奔命當然他也有糾正地方政府彰化縣政府的管理不當那院長"},{"start":25038.993,"end":25060.318,"text":"您講臺中西部特羅案首次的檢驗驗出後沒給臺堂15天的復驗時間就進行公佈這是臺中市政府的錯但是院長市府依食安法第5條他就是需要公佈如果像您說的還要再等等等"},{"start":25061.038,"end":25088.095,"text":"等到中央說可以公布再公布如果有一天監察院抓到太晚公布導致台中市政府的公務人員被糾察被懲處誰負責?難道行政院院長陳建仁院長您負責嗎?從今天早上的答覆您在牛許廷這個部分回覆說520之後您是堅定支持絕對不會再繼續擔任行政院長那您要怎麼負責?"},{"start":25089.246,"end":25102.905,"text":"您說台中市政府錯在太早公布了現在我們是公開直播我想問一下那如果您可以承諾以後類似有這樣子的公務人員被監察院糾正的時候"},{"start":25103.953,"end":25128.032,"text":"有人可以負責嗎?您敢在這邊直接說你會負責嗎?正確的科學那一件事情就是他必須要確定他檢驗的結果是正確那台中市政府的檢驗人員在同一塊肉做了很多次的檢驗前後的差距相差十倍以上那這個時候他自己也感到困惑"},{"start":25128.592,"end":25133.435,"text":"好的 院長謝謝您的回覆那院長根據報導您指稱臺中市食安處實驗室的汙染是有可能的有可能"},{"start":25156.55,"end":25170.172,"text":"而現在坐在臺下的鄭文燦副院長是直接直指不管用什麼方式表達都不會改變台中市實驗室污染的這個事實。第三"},{"start":25171.499,"end":25198.669,"text":"我們現在可以看到臺中市衛生局長曾子展表示說實驗室的污染證據在哪裡而且先後有派官員專家來查看都定調實驗室沒有污染院長我今天想要特別請問的是請問一下實驗室污染的證據在哪裡您可以提出來嗎再來一個行政院有三種版本有可能這是事實"},{"start":25199.775,"end":25221.472,"text":"以及沒有污染請問一下到底國人要怎麼樣才知道哪一個才是正確的答案我想這件事情需要靠我們專家委員會來做最後的認定那專家委員會現在會議已經開完然後他們現在的報告要出來但是我在這裡要跟委員做報告的就是"},{"start":25221.912,"end":25222.693,"text":"我們今天就想請問您一個很簡單的問題"},{"start":25250.569,"end":25273.939,"text":"我現在看到三種版本您可不可以今天公開直播跟我確定一個版本是有可能的還是這是事實還是這是沒有不能排除不排除有污染的可能性好所以就是有可能嘛對吧三種版本我們找到了一個版本您說的就是有可能但我很遺憾的是有人說這是事實"},{"start":25275.491,"end":25303.639,"text":"這一點就這一點我們應該要抱持著應該要否定的態度我希望您維持我們有科學我們就等專家來判定嘛那現在是有可能汙染而不是事實而現在有人大言不慚的直接告訴我們所有的媒體這是事實我想這就是傷害台中市傷害所有的台中市願意認真去檢驗的這些公務人員所以"},{"start":25304.119,"end":25326.352,"text":"我們今天我跟您詢問的是有可能不排除對吧?對我跟您講的是這樣但是我要跟您報告就是說在接受媒體訪問的時候有些人在回答的時候呢那他你要看那個回答的時間啊等等啊看在哪一個時程裡面所做的這個結論比較好一點謝謝"},{"start":25328.77,"end":25350.272,"text":"科學是講數據的政治才是拐彎抹角才是含沙射影才是有證據應該直接講明若沒有講的人應該道歉甚至應該直接下台我想根據媒體報導大約97%的肉量已經被吃掉了行政院指出本次抽驗同批的豬肉共計52件"},{"start":25351.67,"end":25361.441,"text":"我想可代表這都沒有檢測出乙型受體數且檢驗的數目符合科學統計的數目也就是抽樣數大於30"},{"start":25363.291,"end":25385.08,"text":"可代表母體,表示台糖豬肉安全無虞。我想就教於院長,抽驗數目符合科學統計數目,抽樣數大於30,可代表母體。不好意思,您是公衛專家,我不敢說我比你強。那我想請問一下,今天的這句話,可代表母體的依據是什麼?可否釋之本教?"},{"start":25387.3,"end":25405.548,"text":"當N大於等於這個30的時候那它的那個95%訓練期間的測定值呢就是在可信的範圍內嘛所以這個是一般的食品檢驗的時候我們為什麼要用抽樣檢查的原理就在這裡這就是統計的重要性統計科學的重要性"},{"start":25405.708,"end":25425.216,"text":"那今天農業部跟衛福部兩部都共驗了2885件的樣品有關西部特羅都未檢出但台中市就是檢出來了那食藥署的相關單位也都去驗了台中市那一批也有驗出來而且台中市政府的這個實驗室也都是食藥署認證的衛福部長對吧"},{"start":25426.481,"end":25453.483,"text":"是經過事務室認證那有驗出的話就要抓出問題在哪不要再扯台中市政府作假有拜託你抓出來讓我們知道台中市作假如果沒有就不要一直講台中市委員但是這一個檢驗是在台中市政府的實驗室去驗出來有的所以負責任的實驗室應該要去找出來為什麼他可以檢驗出來而別人檢驗不出來好的"},{"start":25453.803,"end":25472.535,"text":"他是實際上的檢驗者他有責任的報告他還是要求是中央政府的責任來幫助協助不管是最近的判斷專業判斷我們都尊重但是就是目前是有可能不要馬上就定調就是台中市"},{"start":25473.095,"end":25496.497,"text":"那您能夠想像嗎?106年食藥署副署長林金富公開的強調告訴民眾不用恐慌根據資料顯示就算終生都吃戴奧辛蛋每日的平均曝露量仍低於世界衛生組織的建議值樣這樣子的向全民信心喊話我想當時他有這樣做出這樣子的一個喊話"},{"start":25497.678,"end":25516.093,"text":"如果他當時有做這樣的一個喊話而且他也參考了Codex就是這個世界上的這個大澳新的含量的標準有這樣的一個依據那他按照數學上的計算他確實是沒有到達Codex的標準減出跟達到這個國際標準"},{"start":25518.255,"end":25520.778,"text":"院長您看本席多次發函食安辦所知這些所知的資料多久了本席跟你們要檢驗結果的判讀依據等資料"},{"start":25536.898,"end":25563.635,"text":"這些都是已經存在的內容為什麼不能在10天內的期限交付本席?依食安法規定檢驗的資訊要公開你都已經驗完了公佈檢驗的結果同時都應該載明偵測的定量極限值的判讀依據這些最基本的資料都已經是現成的不用再另外找答案為什麼遲遲沒有交給我?我們辦公室所知很多天了"},{"start":25564.956,"end":25592.879,"text":"這個部分剛才您的您說的那個條文是含到後10天內但是因為這個比較細節我請部長看看他知道10天內對那我先你可以給我資料嗎我是沒有收到或看到委員要所知的內容我想我們公文來往都會有證據白紙黑紙沒關係我會回去再查查看我後面可以再貼給你看那是不是您可以給我資料"},{"start":25593.879,"end":25622.899,"text":"欸,如果他是屬於一些可以公開的資料的話,這絕對沒有問題啦。這一次的檢驗報告,我想剛剛講很清楚,實驗法規定檢驗資訊都應該要公開。所以應該沒有所謂的可公開跟不可公開吧。那我想這些公衛專家都很了解,判斷依據的這個原始資料檢驗的結果可信度占有極大的重要性。這個時候您跟我講的好像有一點點就是,好像內部有不能夠告知、不能夠公開的,是這樣嗎?"},{"start":25623.819,"end":25637.295,"text":"沒有,如果是檢驗的數據的話,那的確是可以公開,但是我不知道委員要的數據的範圍到哪裡。我要的範圍內一定都是食安法所規定的,那我們會後再來討論,我再跟你要資料,這樣可以嗎?"},{"start":25639.216,"end":25653.382,"text":"數據就是科學是資訊公開的是法律規定的而你現在我不知道您剛剛給我的回應感覺好像都是有政治的感覺好像我帶有因為如果是內部的簽證的過程的話那個是可以不公開"},{"start":25654.142,"end":25669.884,"text":"OK 我要的就是資訊公開而且是法律規定可以公開的這些數據這樣子可以嗎?那我想我必須再提出一個您看PTT2016年4月民進黨立委許志傑舉國家環境獨物研究中心的研究報告"},{"start":25671.525,"end":25698.699,"text":"當時這一份報告當中有指稱開放瘦肉精美牛進口前2005年到2008年國人的尿液樣本當中約有1.39%到5.56%被驗出4種瘦肉精其中也包含西部特羅依此比例來換算國內恐高達將近115萬人左右來受害。院長我想"},{"start":25699.451,"end":25717.382,"text":"我的訴求越來越清楚,您聽聽看,既然國家環境毒物研究中心曾經在2005年到2008年做過這樣子的研究報告,為何中央在溯源管理人找不到源頭,這是我所疑慮的。但"},{"start":25718.042,"end":25719.503,"text":"您剛剛也有在其他的委員提到看守內閣要負責任"},{"start":25737.034,"end":25751.055,"text":"暫暫靜靜的做到5月19日。您是做事的院長。我要拜託你。院長西部特羅的同批豬肉有97%已經吃下肚。本席為了台中市市民的健康著想我懇求我也要求"},{"start":25751.776,"end":25766.583,"text":"中央比照國家環境讀物研究中心的研究報告案例辦理編列經費給台中市政府或者是其他的公部門再一次執行相關的研究報告可以嗎?"},{"start":25767.463,"end":25790.404,"text":"好,首先我要講一下你們三個委員的講法不一樣,一個要我有所有為,一個要我認真負責,一個叫我說你這個是Council內閣你不能做任何事情。我就一句話,做你自己,您回答了,5月19戰戰兢兢做到,您願意負責任嗎?那所以剛才的委員講錯了嘛,好,那我現在想講的就是說,"},{"start":25791.745,"end":25815.78,"text":"對於這一個檢驗的部分那需要再做進一步的抽驗我們已經講好會對於這個豬肉我們本來要做2000件的我們會擴大做到4000件的這一個以這個meta broker這個做底數的檢驗我知道您有要擴大我都看過這些其他相關的對話那我現在要拜託你 讓台中市政府"},{"start":25817.501,"end":25840.869,"text":"給經費要給補助臺中市政府去做什麼檢驗﹖或者是其他公部門沒有一定要給臺中市政府﹖好沒有問題那其他公部門我跟你講了就已經要從2000件的豬肉擴大到4000件﹖那我希望是比照2016年許智傑委員所看到這個國家環境毒物研究中心這樣子的一個報告從國人的尿液再一次的抽樣檢出看看有沒有所謂的乙醯重體數嗎﹖你說從尿液來檢驗喔"},{"start":25844.112,"end":25855.63,"text":"兩件事情跟委員報告第一個剛剛提到說西布特羅的毒性是什麼萊克多巴胺的一千倍那個是賴老師在我沒有說一千倍我說十倍"},{"start":25857.077,"end":25860.96,"text":"我要跟委員報告的就是說因為這所謂的瘦肉精其實它就有乙型瘦體素那乙型瘦體素的裡面的這些許多種的話其中有一些是在藥物裡面有"},{"start":25883.956,"end":25909.347,"text":"對,像我們的氣喘感冒的時候也經常會用到所以你去驗這些所以2005年到2008年他所指出的這些報告當中是沒有用的所以當時許智傑拿出這份報告有可能是吃藥然後看他當時的政府也是錯的嗎您剛剛院長一直跟我強調上一個委員講的是錯的那我現在是不是您間接打臉了許智傑拿出這一份報告"},{"start":25911.168,"end":25935.601,"text":"委員我要跟您講兩件事第一件事情那個時候瘦肉精都還有可能在台灣在使用第二個這個檢驗出來的結果的解釋很重要我覺得做一個好的科學家你去檢驗出來有了你怎麼解釋呢?如果這個乙型瘦體素本來就在藥物裡面那你檢驗的對象裡面檢驗的出來你怎麼分辨這是來自豬肉還是來自這個藥物呢?"},{"start":25939.083,"end":25964.948,"text":"所以我想科學很重要。我很高興你強調科學。我在這邊沒有要跟您比個高下。我在這邊是希望能夠爭取這一個經費再一次做這樣子的研究報告。其實我覺得是利益良善。您也是為了國人的健康。我想這大家都可以再討論看看。那另外我想再跟您提問。院長您平常有滑臉書的習慣嗎?或者是看看LINE?"},{"start":25965.408,"end":25965.768,"text":"網路上購藥要小心"},{"start":25992.349,"end":26006.875,"text":"教師全聯會也發出呼籲要求政府要重視這樣子的一個問題。院長今天有宣稱醫療效能的LINE臉書廣告到處充斥。針對該類廣告的處理方式"},{"start":26007.694,"end":26035.983,"text":"可以說一下嗎我請衛福部來解釋這基本上在藥事法裡面對這一類的話就是應該要處罰藥事法可以處罰嘛 對吧 對那不好意思 那如果IP都設在國外國外怎麼處理這是廣告的部分的話那IP如果是在國外的確有它的困難但是民眾要買藥一定是現實的那個藥在國內所以我們可以來追啦"},{"start":26037.052,"end":26060.51,"text":"這希望您追得到啦但是我必須跟您講國外廠商設架網站其廣告的內容違反國內的法定規定時因為管轄權不在國內所以無法約束制止該行為而如今業者都在國內網站刊登這種誇大不實宣稱醫療廣告違反藥事法、食安法等規定"},{"start":26062.196,"end":26083.026,"text":"但若是在國外架設網站國內刊登廣告違反國內的法令就沒事這根本就抓不到所以沒辦法抓就變成一個漏洞那甚至就會開始越多人仿效那政府不就是鼓勵大家採取做法"},{"start":26083.946,"end":26091.702,"text":"所以藥師全聯會已經砲轟中央政府都不管數位部都只賣蚵仔麵線"},{"start":26093.697,"end":26117.759,"text":"打詐也不能打到底在幹嘛國人的健康可以等待嗎這一種要你錢要你命我想院長剛剛我們還是提到您會戰戰兢兢的做到5月19這件事情您可以幫忙協助處理嗎當然要啊這個如果說是一個詐騙的這個廣告一定要隨時下架你即刻下架這是很重要的"},{"start":26118.96,"end":26141.332,"text":"那去年我們就下架有3萬多折啦好 謝謝院長正面的回覆我們持續努力但我要跟您報告藥師全聯會都提到這件事情代表已經已經有一段時間了齁這件事情到現在都沒辦法處理好我也希望5月19看到您是輝煌的去回歸您原本人生的規劃那您把這個東西都做完我們看到了這"},{"start":26143.394,"end":26159.052,"text":"我希望這件事情已經全聯會他們都在說了我們應該正視這個問題國人的健康我們會正視這是很重要那謝謝我在這邊要謝謝陳建仁院長行政院合定了台中藍線"},{"start":26161.529,"end":26181.843,"text":"這條捷運的計畫總經費1615.14億元。未來完工後不只臺中市民會受惠,全國國人來到臺中玩也都會一樣受惠。但是院長中央的補助啊真的不能大小眼。您聽聽看當初高捷興建的時候六成由中央來負擔。"},{"start":26185.408,"end":26193.821,"text":"現在中捷藍線新建台中市負擔939億接近6成要台中市政府負擔6成的理由"},{"start":26194.963,"end":26211.972,"text":"新聞都有寫都有指出臺中市市府財務狀況改善了財政等級由三級成為二級對吧﹖對所以由行政院認定臺中市市政府的財政改善了"},{"start":26212.532,"end":26239.317,"text":"沒有沒有沒有 這個有一個標準啦有標準啦喔沒關係那我還要補充一下等我一下等我一下待會我就會給您喔那院長地方政府努力改善財政我個人覺得要值得鼓勵啦不管是口頭的不管是實質的實質的啦實質鼓勵很多那但是我看到的是為什麼補助反而變少了那不就意味著懲罰好學生鼓勵大家不要當好學生嗎那我有PTT您看一下"},{"start":26240.485,"end":26268.697,"text":"這一張是各直轄市的縣市政府財力及次表我們先看到左邊啦不好意思因為左邊被翻譯人員擋到了齁我簡單跟您報告左邊花蓮縣的財力及次是第五級是第五級喔院長左邊是第五級但是跑到右邊的表格你們的表格啦齁花蓮卻是唯一例外他卻只有82%"},{"start":26270.805,"end":26284.374,"text":"不是90%但今天我要跟您探討的是第二級跟第三級最高的補助比例是70到78兩者是差8%第四級到第五級是82到90%這之間差了4%"},{"start":26290.453,"end":26314.427,"text":"對不起82到90%也是差了8%但3級到4級的時候是78%到82%這就差了4%而已喔所以我想問一下為什麼沒有一致性的等差比例或者是固定比例的征服這當時這樣子的一個表格當時這樣的比例到底是怎麼定的"},{"start":26314.867,"end":26341.598,"text":"是政治決定的嗎?跟那個委員報告一下,這個原則是多年來都是大概我們每兩、三年公布一次。那您剛才講的臺中市的升級,事實上我們都會有獎勵金。據我知道臺中市這個三年會多到3億的獎勵金升級。謝謝。我想還是很少。我們當然希望各縣市的都是第一級,但是有可能嗎?不可能。"},{"start":26342.498,"end":26363.766,"text":"我們應該不只是獎勵而已我們想我們這幾年包括我們在地方一直在喊財政化分收支法我們希望能夠擁有這樣子前頭有擁有這樣這麼好的法令讓各個縣市能夠公正公開後面這樣子的一個補助計劃性補助我覺得也都減少我覺得是血"},{"start":26389.295,"end":26391.14,"text":"好,謝謝農委員聽委的質詢,謝謝陳院長的備詢。我們報告院會現在休息10分鐘,現在休息。"},{"start":27013.53,"end":27016.954,"text":"報告院會現在我們繼續開會接下來請登記第28位吳委員立法質詢"},{"start":27045.233,"end":27055.905,"text":"主席好,有請院長有請陳院長備詢五言五行,恭喜你,連著"},{"start":27058.122,"end":27085.994,"text":"謝謝院長我第一次選舉當時您是副總統您是我唯一造市場的嘉賓我第二次選舉您是行政院長也是我造市場的唯一嘉賓所以今天很高興在這邊跟您見面選舉的時候我們常說選對的人走對的路人的確很重要我相信您是對的人"},{"start":27086.65,"end":27103.018,"text":"因為你的溫暖比任何人更溫暖。你的堅韌我們也已經看到比任何人更堅韌。在這邊跟您說聲謝謝您的承擔付出。那其實我每一次做院會質詢我其實花比較多的時間來論述。"},{"start":27105.049,"end":27127.487,"text":"為什麼因為我總覺得其實我們臺灣這片國土之下的人民對我們自己本身的原住民族認識還是很少很有限所以我們有時候受到的這些所謂的歧視他不僅僅是對人的歧視甚至對我們的土地"},{"start":27128.989,"end":27150.787,"text":"說到這個所以人很重要因為觀念他可以改變很多的政策那以我們過去原住民守護山林我們守護了千百年那麼直到蔡總統2016年原住民終於開始領取禁法補償金"},{"start":27152.264,"end":27177.905,"text":"那這個禁法補償金上路以來其實也是且戰且走那像我這幾年我一直針對禁法就是要落實禁法的精神不要東扣西扣像那些崩塌地路面等等那非常謝謝園民會在今年度已經正式上路就是會落實禁法精神大家也很高興那像我們的林保署幾十年來有所謂的獎勵輔導造林"},{"start":27180.728,"end":27204.661,"text":"過去原住民很辛苦啊,造林20年60萬,說一句實在話,請工人都不夠。可是現在為了要提升國有財的自主利耗,而且我們配合未來的趨勢探櫃,有這種新殖林6年的這樣的一個規定趨勢,所以我們的新造林政策今年也會上路。"},{"start":27205.401,"end":27233.064,"text":"已經改成6年60萬最高那我覺得這都是好事所以院長您記不記得我上個會期就特別提醒了既然碳匯未來是新殖林6年的有價既然我們的新造林政策也是提高很多很多倍那麼如果我們的淨法補償金不提高恐怕會面臨許多人砍樹造林"},{"start":27234.025,"end":27257.933,"text":"那如果我們的法令沒有配合其成同步上路你不要說慢個兩年三年很可能這兩年三年就很多人就砍樹了就照領了所以院長您上次有答應我就是責成原民會把經費做適當的調升所以我其實也很想知道族人也很想知道到底進度如何"},{"start":27259.236,"end":27270.945,"text":"我先請主委談一下,然後我再來做補充。簡短回答就好。好,跟委員報告,因為原子民族保留地進法補償條例,我想委員都很清楚,因為"},{"start":27272.386,"end":27272.726,"text":"我們來修法"},{"start":27293.962,"end":27313.437,"text":"我們會很想聽聽您的態度,或者是主記長的態度啊。像現在以7萬公頃來計,就是3721億。那如果以我上次講的提高到5萬,5、7、35億。我不知道主記長您會支持嗎?您覺得很多嗎?"},{"start":27314.824,"end":27337.418,"text":"我想第一個如果這個要修法我們當然來修法不過我首先要謝謝委員反映了這個族人的心聲這對我們來說是相當的重要那第二個呢如果這個經費的部分的話我請主席長那個跟那個委員報告一下經費到如果是如果是復活法令大家是認同編在預算裡面我們當然就會"},{"start":27338.058,"end":27358.361,"text":"好那也順便謝謝院長主委還有主計長因為我多次的質詢終於今年度我們已經正式看到進法補償金不再動用原民會的綜合發展基金而是列在原民會的公務預算在這邊謝謝大家那另外我也要提到就是國土計劃法"},{"start":27359.713,"end":27379.531,"text":"其實我們喊了幾十年,終於明年4月要正式上路。原住民很期待很期待,因為終於有人正視我們了。謝謝我們的新政府,因為過去我們詬病的就是為什麼要用平地的那一套土地的規則來去看山坡地的土地規則。"},{"start":27380.712,"end":27389.851,"text":"明明我們的農牧用地就是長在山坡上可是為什麼要用試用平地的標準明明我們在山上蓋房子我們的建壁率"},{"start":27390.896,"end":27391.236,"text":"委員會送我們的"},{"start":27414.036,"end":27436.596,"text":"﹗"},{"start":27437.417,"end":27451.414,"text":"好 謝謝那再來我要講的就是元寶條例上個會期元寶條例幾乎要通過了其實我們在協商的時候我也是最後一個離開那個會場那我懂大家對這個"},{"start":27452.495,"end":27470.263,"text":"原保條例有很多的疑慮但是我要借這個機會要來跟院長報告原保條例很重要很重要原住民期待很久第一個至少要把它提升它的法律位階因為我們一旦面對一般的法我們就要退讓"},{"start":27471.463,"end":27500.683,"text":"另外呢,好比我們過去長期的購併的建民登記,或者是現在很多人都現金買原保地,我們在等待的這幾十年,其實原住民保留地已經很多很多都流失到別人的手上。又或者攸關轉型正義的,像公有土地的真化邊,我舉個簡單的例子,那些居住在永久屋的回不了山林的家的這些人,他們的原保地"},{"start":27501.926,"end":27504.458,"text":"我們是不是應該讓永久屋也變成元寶地?"},{"start":27506.001,"end":27532.502,"text":"另外我們談的像那些我們過去的主居地也許現在在林保署手上在退府會手上我們也在等待這步法讓我們的主居地可以回來變成原保地又或者我們很多具有歷史傳統淵源的使用事實的那過去我們振化邊只能夠用在原鄉地區那這個法通過的之後只要有歷史淵源使用事實我們都可以透過這個法振化邊"},{"start":27533.243,"end":27542.081,"text":"所以我想要請教的就是說因為屆期不去審那我希望說這個會期那個園民會會提出來嗎?"},{"start":27543.92,"end":27546.443,"text":"我進入到立法院的第一年,主任有來找我。"},{"start":27568.464,"end":27594.8,"text":"他們就是提到小型露營場可不可以合法化所以我也陪伴他們走了兩年透過質詢開公聽會很多場的協調會那終於也在2022年正式上路可是我要跟院長報告當然我要謝謝交通部願意成為主管機關也要謝謝內政部願意去修改非都土地管制規則第6條的副表1納入容許項目可是這一年半以來喔"},{"start":27595.62,"end":27604.548,"text":"聊聊可數申請合法通過的可能不會超過時間那最主要的原因是我們的19項環境敏感地區"},{"start":27605.683,"end":27633.764,"text":"原本我們立這個法是為了讓2000多個小型露營場非法的讓它合法化而且我們是農地農用、林地林用而且是低限度的利用去讓小型露營場合法化所以在這個過程當中我們發現原來大部分的人都位在19項環境敏感地區結果我們用這個法反而是去幫新設的露營場開門"},{"start":27635.578,"end":27658.668,"text":"我覺得這個是本末倒置的所以這個部分我們是希望說我們還是希望那個觀光署去邀集各部會就是來去做一個19項環民地區因為我查過很久都沒有檢討都沒有更新而且一話都是一大塊的話所以這個部分院長我們可以來請我們交通部來重新檢討嗎"},{"start":27659.548,"end":27674.548,"text":"﹗"},{"start":27675.796,"end":27689.492,"text":"主要還是在地幕使用,剛才談到環境敏感地帶,因為它跨了很多部門,尤其在農業部的部分。我想我們已經講到,我們希望把兩千多場違法的合法的確現在碰到用地的瓶頸。"},{"start":27690.874,"end":27711.512,"text":"我們來請光耀召開會來討論。好,謝謝院長,謝謝部長。那又例如那個野保法,也是列入優先法案,但是我看到農業部的法案說明說,未來不論預防農損或原住民狩獵,皆不得使用獸甲。我是不曉得立法的理由,但是我想讓院長知道,完全的禁絕,"},{"start":27713.018,"end":27732.174,"text":"那其實如果有農損其實會有補償的措施嗎又或者我要講的是說今天住在山上的這些人這些年來比幾十年前的山林更困苦又要跟猴子又要跟山豬又要跟山羌他的農損很嚴重"},{"start":27734.116,"end":27757.292,"text":"但是我覺得如果完全禁絕那就是他真的有這個生活需求他走入地下化未來呢動輒被罰引起民怨我們的民意代表一定會有很多很多的質詢跟反應那我想這也不是大家所樂見的所以我覺得是不是應該用治理去取代完全的禁絕"},{"start":27758.112,"end":27768.704,"text":"就是什麼人可以,什麼人不可以,什麼地方可以,什麼地方不可以,什麼材質可以,什麼材質不可以,應該要去訂定這樣的管理辦法,不曉得部長您覺得?"},{"start":27770.038,"end":27795.552,"text":"跟委員說明一下就是我們禁止那個狩獵的獵甲是一個非常傳統的獵甲那個是當動物被獵了以後牠腳可能會斷掉的部分那其他的那個套索的部分我們是沒有禁止的這個第一個說明那第二個說明是針對原住民的狩獵那我們也尊重原住民的整個文化的多元性所以我們在狩獵方面也做了三階段的改進最後的一個階段就是讓原住民自主狩獵的管理"},{"start":27796.172,"end":27815.442,"text":"就是由原住民自己定他的狩獵公約用背他的方式那部長這樣子我明白謝謝您那我剛剛舉這些例子其實我都只是在反映住在山上的這些人的意見那恐怕就是因為我們居住的環境不同生活習慣不同文化關係不同"},{"start":27815.942,"end":27838.804,"text":"我們常常用自己的想法去幫人家想辦法結果呢弄得大家都不開心所以像礦業法去年修法修訂了那個霸王條款之後經濟部就有了第一個就是針對產商申請駁回的行政處分書那所以台南部都很高興可是呢說一句實在話台南部落會這件事情吵了很久"},{"start":27839.724,"end":27854.278,"text":"甚至我也陪他隔壁的地利村去打過高等法院那也勝訴那其實浪費時間可是我要講的是說在地人怎麼會不知道可不可以開發呢所以部落之章同意辦法非常的重要他們知道那個地方"},{"start":27854.818,"end":27882.899,"text":"是水源地是會崩塌的可是為什麼我們的辦法不清不楚讓廠商有這個機會想要去試試看然後引起很多的一個紛爭所以談到這個部分我們就是要談到說現在經濟部做了很好的示範礦業法裡面做了一個諮商同意的指引所以我們有了這樣的一個好的結果因此我們也希望不要每一步法都來做應該統一在原基法下的部落諮商同意辦法我們趕快來把它處理"},{"start":27884.44,"end":27911.632,"text":"所以主委這樣可以嗎?關於諮商統一辦法我們現在正在研擬按照過去遇到的一些問題研擬一個新的辦法出來那講到這個部落諮商統一一定要講到部落公法人院長你可能不知道齁部落公法人才會有部落會議主席跟部落會議但是原住民齁已經很多年十幾年都沒有開過村民大會都是開部落會議那這就有趣了部落會議有法律地位"},{"start":27912.312,"end":27926.054,"text":"部落諮商同意辦法具有效力但是沒有所謂的部落公法人也沒有所謂的部落會議主席還是存在村長所以像這樣子一個很奇怪的辦法是不是我們應該要讓他盡速把部落公法人法治化院長"},{"start":27927.782,"end":27942.471,"text":"聽起來是這樣子不過這個委員主委比較清楚那之後再請那個主委再到辦公室那我想今天我其實要表達的就是說人對了事情就對了所以我們原住民人才的自治的培育搖籃"},{"start":27943.431,"end":27959.296,"text":"所以原住民族學校法很重要那未來的原住民族大學的催生也很重要甚至如何讓現在的原住民專班就成為原住民大學的一個雛形科系那這個部分我想之後我會再透過各委員會的質詢再來一一的"},{"start":27972.53,"end":27975.957,"text":"謝謝吳委員立法的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第29位黃委員建斌請質詢。"},{"start":28007.153,"end":28013.398,"text":"謝謝,謝謝院長。請一下我們的行政院陳院長。麻煩請陳院長備詢。報告委員午安,恭喜你當選立委。謝謝院長,院長平安。"},{"start":28026.369,"end":28047.708,"text":"我聽說之前院長在擔任副總統的時候曾經到過臺東縣大武鄉的一個主教的神父西神父的墓園去追思過法是不是?我很喜歡臺東而且那裡有那個我們瑞士白冷會的神父們很多所以我很想念他們"},{"start":28049.164,"end":28074.573,"text":"謝謝院長,我其實是那時候擔任那個鄉的鄉長,所以一直沒有機會跟院長見面,那今天第一次見面是在我們立法院這邊,謝謝天主保佑。我今天來這邊其實是在替台東人說一些台東人心聲的話,來這邊跟院長來這邊來說報告。其實台東是一塊多元的土地,那在"},{"start":28076.638,"end":28099.169,"text":"這塊土地上其實除了原住民的朋友以外我們的同胞以外有很多是來自其實其他縣市來到台東這塊土地開墾的像是台南或是彰化雲林各個縣市都有像我的外省主婦也是早期來到後山來開墾那我想這麼多的人其實從我們的"},{"start":28100.149,"end":28113.104,"text":"三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、兩、三、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、三、一、二、"},{"start":28117.248,"end":28141.806,"text":"所以我相信也是因為這樣造就台中人非常刻苦耐勞的精神那可能又是在這樣的環境好山好水然後跟原住民同胞一起生活相信相對的樂觀也非常的友善堅強我相信但是其實院長友善的背後其實含著很多的無奈我大概跟院長講一下台中曾經是被譽為被遺忘的城市"},{"start":28146.23,"end":28164.464,"text":"臺中縣的土地面積是全國第三大,人口大概是21萬,我們這個就是百分之一的人口住在十分之一的土地上。西部的朋友很羨慕我們,我們的生活空間很寬闊,很舒服,但其實也相對的是相對的發展落後跟不方便。"},{"start":28166.803,"end":28194.406,"text":"那過去臺東縣政府的臺東縣的人口的這個不管是人口增長率、自然增加率還有社會增加率在108年的時候調查是全國縣市排名第22也就是倒數第一名經過很多年的努力一直到了110年轉為正的2.02%那排名大幅提升是全國第5那在這個過程裡面其實臺東縣政府用了很多的力氣來發展屬於自己的產業"},{"start":28197.506,"end":28211.748,"text":"那我想要問院長,在台東的改變裡面,你覺得中央給予了台東什麼樣的協助?這是一個很好的問題,因為台東確實它是一個農業縣,所以在"},{"start":28212.261,"end":28236.288,"text":"臨時會議"},{"start":28236.598,"end":28238.159,"text":"臺東縣政府簽證計畫分到七十五億八年"},{"start":28251.127,"end":28272.437,"text":"八年民進黨執政75億這麼大的土地人口這麼大的土地這樣少的人口用這樣分配其實不太公平特別是我們台東縣內族群多元所以原住民、客家人、民漢還有新住民我們還要管理兩個離島綠島跟蘭嶼這樣的經費其實不夠的也希望院長能夠多多幫助台東"},{"start":28275.005,"end":28275.186,"text":"發言委員"},{"start":28298.164,"end":28320.502,"text":"我們覺得可以的,我們就盡量來幫助,只要他執行力。當然當然,中央政府也會努力我們看到,可是臺東縣政府如果有更大的資源,他不用去走自己的路。當然。OK好,謝謝院長。我們現在來談,不好意思,那個院長不好意思,因為我之前的工作比較少質詢,所以待會我質詢不是這麼準確的用語,也請多多包涵。好,沒關係。"},{"start":28322.438,"end":28328.8,"text":"我們現在談的就是剛才提到的就是有提到農業我們直接就來講農業好了臺東大概兩個問題一個農業問題OK我們到農業這一塊好了農業也是臺東慢經濟的一環我也好好謝謝副長副長好"},{"start":28346.344,"end":28363.597,"text":"臺東因為天然環境的關係,我們的交通不便,我們人口少,商業行為少,所以我們其實就從基礎的農業來發展。那這幾年來我們找到了一個可以代表臺東很重要的一個經濟產物,就是市價。臺東縣政府的風水市價在2019年的時候產值已經達到了10億美元。"},{"start":28367.495,"end":28395.417,"text":"是,那這個是我們從農業部裡面調到的資料這個是在民國110年的12月到113年的1月份那院長跟部長可以空這表格看到其實現在臺東的世家最主要的輸出的地點還是在我們中國大陸不管是他的產量或是他的產值部分他可以看得到那接下來我就要請教一下院長"},{"start":28397.876,"end":28419.557,"text":"委員長最近我們發生了一個兩岸發生一個金門撞船的事件鬧得悲悲揚揚。我想請教院長,這個事項已經有一個很好的商業模式,那如果未來遇到類似這樣子會造成兩岸關係緊張的議題而中斷,我們如果沒有辦法銷往中國大陸,請問"},{"start":28421.536,"end":28439.595,"text":"院長或部長,你要告訴我們農民我們要銷到什麼地方去。這個部分我想我們農業部有一個對策。我想跟委員說明,第一個部分就是我們絕對不會輕易的放棄任何一個市場,包括中國市場。第二個部分就是過往我們對於中國輸出的比較"},{"start":28442.705,"end":28459.155,"text":"﹗"},{"start":28459.48,"end":28460.76,"text":"謝謝部長我相信農業部非常努力不過我們還是看一下圖表剛剛哪一張圖表上一張圖表"},{"start":28489.813,"end":28498.86,"text":"我們也很努力的想要開拓新的市場只要能夠賺錢農民絕對支持不過現實告訴我們最大的市場還是在中國大陸"},{"start":28500.233,"end":28502.154,"text":"這個我想是應該嘛 剛才我們主委已經講得很清楚"},{"start":28528.986,"end":28530.327,"text":"我相信農業部也會盡力幫我們農民來"},{"start":28555.263,"end":28571.981,"text":"做外銷再做努力那我們現在提到第二個問題就是其實也是同樣張圖表上你可以看到在中國道在110年大概是9月的時候就是那個46980後面那個數字之後開始數量都停止甚至減少"},{"start":28572.782,"end":28590.142,"text":"那是被中國禁止那時候。對,部長我要講一件事情。這件事情就是在我們的110年9月20號,應該是9月20號那個時候,因為中國用因為檢查出有假借可寵這個理由,停止輸出。對嘛,應該是這個時候。所以所有私家完全沒辦法進入嘛。是。"},{"start":28592.073,"end":28616.973,"text":"我不想分享一個故事我一個朋友當年因為看到世家產業好他辭掉北部工作返鄉然後青年返鄉從事農業他那時候是騎著Ducati在巡產水我前幾年看到他是騎著狗狗的在送外賣為什麼會這樣其實上面已經告訴大家了我想要講的是我們還是要回到事情的本質如果今天是假借殼種的問題我們就來解決它"},{"start":28618.988,"end":28638.869,"text":"我相信部長也同意這個事情。甚至是一個影響因素,但是提高自己本身的本質才是外銷最重要的事情。所以台中縣政府也很努力的來尋求這個解決的方法。我們開始找了我們台中大學來解決怎麼樣讓我們對本屆各種的這個載存率能夠降低,然後提升我們的品質。"},{"start":28639.89,"end":28667.17,"text":"所以在去年我們老縣長也率隊到大陸去來做這樣的說明跟談判所以回來之後也積極的推展這個農業的這個產業外銷履歷還有最重要的是我們甲蟹殼蟲宅蟲的侵採的降低它的侵採率那當然因為這樣子獲得中國大陸再次的同意我們可以輸出農民看到了我們的果農看到了一線的升級"},{"start":28669.824,"end":28694.672,"text":"當然一開始的政策推動一定會有些缺失嘛,對吧?因為我們在,也是在同年我們在外銷的300多件的這個市價裡面確實也發現了還有殘留大概10%的這個甲介殼蟲。我們農業部也很認真的在同年到我們台東縣的17個包裝廠來做這個做一次的再一次的檢驗。還是也有用到對吧?有點大嗎?"},{"start":28698.139,"end":28724.444,"text":"我想跟委員說明一下就是藉口總的部分我們大概現在有一個系統性的一個輔導的方案從我們的整個的公國園本身的一個登錄跟他的一個輔導的系統特別是我們成立的一個鳳梨世家的一個輔導團隊然後這個輔導團隊裡面特別針對藉口總本身的清潔因為過去的清潔通常是比較沒有一個系統性的清潔等於說就是用噴槍噴一噴以後那個藉口總會"},{"start":28726.237,"end":28744.224,"text":"﹗"},{"start":28744.224,"end":28744.985,"text":"部長,我了解。部長,我們後門是不是還有院長有假借格寵?"},{"start":28761.25,"end":28783.808,"text":"還是會有?陸陸續續還是會有?我們有沒有可能會為了這一層的沒有及格的包裝廠而影響其他九層合格的其中的包裝的產品?我要先跟委員說明,這個從通常在國際規範裡面,它如果被驗到它是被用被薰針就可以再進去的。"},{"start":28784.728,"end":28809.259,"text":"而不是直接退運,這個是包括在其他的國家沒有,他的宣稱要看你的成熟度跟他的方法所以我們現在就是在邊境三倍的把關所以能夠攔檢一部分但是我們不能夠確保說田間裡面的清潔能夠百分之百我們會有一個系統性的輔導希望說他把他的頻度降到最低"},{"start":28809.699,"end":28838.01,"text":"好,這樣我部長的說明非常的詳細那我今天其實也有一件事院長我要表達一件事情就是說現在當時台中縣政府發現假借歌蟲的時候其實很想要來輔導他就像有人考試沒有及格我們會趕快找來嘛應該補考嘛對不對所以他就發文去我們的台中縣政府發文去我們的農業部那院長部長請看就是農業部給台中縣政府的公文"},{"start":28839.158,"end":28863.328,"text":"是他依據這個政府資訊公開法第18條第1項第7款規定為確保當事人的權益﹖所以請縣府盡洽輸出業者包裝廠了解及採輔導措施就是說你自己去問哪幾家我不知道你自己去問部長誰沒有寫功課的舉手"},{"start":28864.892,"end":28890.817,"text":"不過我想這件事情要跟委員特別說明就是當初中國同意我們的鳳梨思佳在出口的過程中他的檢疫的相關的規定並沒有正式通知我們那因為兩國的一個貿易的檢疫都是必須要有一個互相的智慧就是你必須要用什麼樣子的一個包裝而且中國他核准的包裝廠"},{"start":28892.037,"end":28911.361,"text":"他也沒有提供說他是根據什麼樣的條件去核准的所以對我們農業部來講對房檢署來講我們並不能夠很確定的中國核准包裝廠是基於什麼樣的一個條件所以我們回應的時候就是說我們不知道這樣子的一個包裝廠是哪一個"},{"start":28911.986,"end":28940.185,"text":"有跟臺東縣政府公過嗎?我們也問過,問題是臺東縣政府說是根據他們所擬定的相關的一個輔導規範那確實檢驗出藉口總則是事實那臺東縣政府想要了解這幾家廠商有難度嗎?對啊,所以我們是從我們的邊境的檢疫的部分然後通過我們的輔導團隊部長,臺東縣政府只是想要知道哪幾家不及格我們並沒有要公開它對"},{"start":28941.499,"end":28967.601,"text":"然後縣長花了那麼多心思,無非就是希望世家這個產業能夠持續永續的發展下去。所以台中縣政府苦尋無路,找了本席。好,那現在這樣,本席也發文,在過年前趕快發文到農業部拜託一下給我們知道。結果我們的回應還是一樣,這個我讀的,我認識的資格不是那麼多,就是後面那個紅線。"},{"start":28969.89,"end":28994.347,"text":"議事長就是說,委員,你自己去一間一間查。我想我絕對不會講這種話。你叫我伯伯就好了。我絕對不會講這種話。因為我一向認為就是說,中央跟地方一定是共同合作去協助這個產業。部長,我們先回到這份公文,那這份公文的內容是這樣子嘛。同志的部分啊。部長,其實我們並沒有要"},{"start":28996.142,"end":28996.622,"text":"臺中新聞絕對絕對絕對會配合"},{"start":29031.288,"end":29047.602,"text":"請"},{"start":29047.942,"end":29064.337,"text":"我跟委員說明,其實我們現在農業部跟縣政府跟農會也好,其實都有非常好的一個溝通的管道。那有一個東西就是包括已經被驗出的這種包裝廠,因為他是屬於他個人的資訊,我們沒辦法就正式的去公開,但是我們會透過輔導團隊去協助。"},{"start":29065.538,"end":29068.74,"text":"中央跟地方要合作而且公司也要協力所以廠商本身這個種植的農戶本身也要對於"},{"start":29092.039,"end":29092.059,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":29106.109,"end":29107.931,"text":"接下來我們就談第二個長久以來一直困擾台中的問題就是交通的議題"},{"start":29132.338,"end":29159.069,"text":"議長你去台東的時候是坐車還是開車?我是坐火車,然後在台東去看不同的教堂的時候,我是當然是坐這個巴士。台東其實沿途都非常漂亮,從台九縣一路都非常漂亮,從太平洋到中古縣的風景都非常優美。可是台東其實也很危險,我們以前一個笑話就是台東縣常常在獨立,"},{"start":29160.265,"end":29162.106,"text":"我印象很深刻戰爭的過程好像就是這麼樣子"},{"start":29188.948,"end":29212.295,"text":"現在突顯出我們的整個交通的困境就是我們就一條路而已。好。OK,我們下一張。那個部長這個是最近才熱騰騰剛出爐的照片。那前幾天發生的吧。部長知道這個是那個路段嗎?"},{"start":29214.643,"end":29233.245,"text":"應該是台九縣應該是跟部長說明這是台九縣鹿野剛好拖寬的那一段這個地方的拖寬造成民眾非常多的怨言因為民眾其實不太了解就是說樓盒好大大為什麼要再裝手啊然後弄得這樣子只是事實上不是很明確"},{"start":29234.67,"end":29238.931,"text":"當時的臺九花東景觀大道就是用景觀大道。當時的想法就是說臺九縣這麼漂亮,希望把這些綠化再把它弄得更好。"},{"start":29257.5,"end":29283.619,"text":"他這個有得過得名阿,就說得過有評比是很優的就類似臺11跟臺9,希望把它做漂亮一點美化很重要,路還是拿來開的啦部長我其實真的代表六個地區民眾的心聲部長你們有跟在地的鄉親公所跟居民討論過嗎有,他那個整條都有地方的討論,包括有一些地方要不要"},{"start":29284.4,"end":29288.544,"text":"我認為這個會後非常穩還要再跟當地的鄉鎮公所來提因為本席從上一陣子一直收到關於這個拖寬案的一些澄清案這個我們會後再來討論我們在委員會的時候也可以來討論這個部分"},{"start":29303.778,"end":29307.161,"text":"不過這駕駛是我覺得他本來是要把他分隔讓他比較安全"},{"start":29327.335,"end":29342.954,"text":"我是覺得這個這張好像不是設計錯誤啦我只是我個人的猜測這個是這個照片是我們東部執行長洪宗凱發的照片對我是說這個到底是駕駛的因素還是設計的因素那我實際上是能夠再檢討這件事情是是是"},{"start":29349.724,"end":29376.72,"text":"我們台中12年,先前一位,我們前一位立委,最後12年都在交通委員會。民進黨在這8年也在執政。那我們等了12年,其實我們等來什麼路?院長,我們看一下這張照片。我們整個一年等在這條路啦。關山、站北道。院長有發現這條路該在什麼地方嗎?這個我不是很清楚。台九。"},{"start":29378.419,"end":29406.774,"text":"市長跟部長,這個是國防部是不是?國防部這條戰備跑道蓋在農田上,這些都是糧田,台東的糧倉就在縱谷地區,你把戰備跑道蓋在糧田上,我不知道是基於什麼樣的原因?我這個跟委員要報告一下好不好?"},{"start":29407.488,"end":29433.454,"text":"這戰備道原本就是本來要修條路把拓寬為了交通方便那既然有這戰備道既然有道路的話但我們也想到講說這個道路的機場啊可以停機啊是不夠的關於西部地區但花東地區我們也找到但我們絕對不會想說為了要做一個戰備道讓飛行能夠起降而影響到其他的交通這都既有的往那拓寬"},{"start":29438.498,"end":29463.172,"text":"國防安全我們絕對支持,因為守護國家安全是每一個人的責任可是我們為了要專門跑道把它蓋在糧田上這件事情我覺得很奇怪明明旁邊不是還有道路為什麼一定要跟農民爭農地我跟委員報告目前委員提供這個圖我們以前所規劃跟地方政府協調過都沒有問題"},{"start":29464.096,"end":29493.071,"text":"現在怎麼會影響到講說毀棄糧田,我要做一個查證以後再去跟我們做什麼?部長,這個下去衍生的問題很多耶。你站在跑道你是不是未來也有那個空白那個那個農機的一些限制,譬如說現在農田撒藥是用無人機,那這個會影響到?會嗎?敢沒?好,這個問題再來討論,我想要表達的是說"},{"start":29495.538,"end":29521.612,"text":"如果戰爭都還沒爆發,就先爆發糧食危機。我想要問一問在場的每位長官,今天真的有打仗的話,你們是挨餓上戰場,你們是吃飽上戰場,還是挨餓上戰場吃子彈?糧食的問題同樣重要不是嗎?這是戰略無知吧?但是兩個一起重要,一樣重要。所以我們這個東西是不是用它來檢討本席堅決的要求?"},{"start":29525.057,"end":29547.335,"text":"這路線一定要改,不能因為為了要做正面法道而犧牲農民,這個是他們吃飯的,他們養家糊口的地方。部長,這是我代表農民跟部長來陳情。是,我跟委員報告,委員講得很卑微,王國勳做任何工程的話也要考量這個,不能貿然去做,一定跟地方政府、跟整個...部長我還是建議要求,我們旁邊其實..."},{"start":29554.281,"end":29560.524,"text":"國防安全我們絕對支持,但是是不是可以不要犧牲農民的權益,這個是本席的要求。"},{"start":29582.847,"end":29610.233,"text":"委員長,其實台東人要的很簡單,真的很簡單,就是一條平安、安全、快速回家的道路。那,我們為了國防安全,我們都會支持,但是也要還給台東人用路的正義,還給台東人一條平安、回家、快速的道路。所以我另外也堅持,我們堅決的支持新建花東快速道路。學院院長你知不支持這件事情?"},{"start":29612.222,"end":29613.268,"text":"在這核心性研究當中。"},{"start":29615.68,"end":29639.374,"text":"這個委員我先跟你簡單說明一下我們要開一條路一定要做可行性評估然後在需要的話還黃評然後細部規劃等等的會有一個質詢那現在的時程是在可行性研究這個階段那可行性研究對台東的話可能我們交通部都會給個可行性研究的相關的經費了我現在院長會這樣院長你都提到你520之後要離開行政團隊嗎"},{"start":29644.141,"end":29672.338,"text":"那不過我相信不然院長在那裡都會繼續支持也協助我們臺東的發展就像院長我第一次聽到院長你到南興看我們習神父的精神一樣習神父在臺東人的心目中地位非常的崇高因為他是第一個到偏鄉來傳教而且是照顧臺東子弟的一位神父所以我相信院長也因為這樣的精神來照顧偏鄉的子弟我也謝謝院長"},{"start":29674.827,"end":29702.56,"text":"那也謝謝我們兩位部長剛剛還有一點點的時間我想我再插播一下齁接下來可能那個問題會跟我們韓院長有點關係院長我待會可能會提到韓院長不好意思齁那個院長我最近在新聞上看到廢廢樣的就是這個民主基金會董事長這件事情那我們也看在新聞這邊有執政黨的委員說"},{"start":29704.728,"end":29717.745,"text":"如果接下來有辦了董事長之後我們的方向整個方向會改變我不知道我聽不太懂這個意思那我也不知道說在擔心什麼這個要問哪一個部分問哪個單位"},{"start":29719.031,"end":29738.84,"text":"我想這個部分民主基金會它是一個獨立運作的基金會那基金會在2月28日的時候的新聞稿已經有表示董事長出缺以後三個月必須要重新改選董事長目前正在協調要召開董事會的過程"},{"start":29740.221,"end":29763.837,"text":"這是民主基金會?對,那我們要開始尊重?為什麼那個執政黨的委員會說,如果是換人之後方向不一樣?我不知道哪裡方向不一樣,我們不是都共同都有一樣的信念嗎?我們不是都共同要守護中華民國嗎?我相信在場都一樣吧,都是捍衛這塊土地上的自由民主,應該是這樣吧?對,我想這個基金會"},{"start":29767.159,"end":29767.859,"text":"我請次長來說明比較清楚。"},{"start":29792.725,"end":29813.916,"text":"委員好,現在基金會他們要找一個確定的時間,先開會,開董事會,那麼董事會也有按照章程去處理這個事情。對啊。謝謝。謝謝院長。應該我們都是在同一條船上的。對。我們共同的信念都是捍衛這塊土地的自由跟民主。我相信是這樣子啦。我們一定是尊重傳統啦。謝謝院長。"},{"start":29816.697,"end":29819.298,"text":"接下來我們請登記第30號郭委員欲請請質詢主席好想請陳院長再請陳院長備詢"},{"start":29851.048,"end":29868.885,"text":"國永安恭喜你當任這個立委我想先問一下院長你有養寵物嗎我沒有我女兒家養了三隻貓跟我一樣我是三隻貓一隻狗那再請教一下我們的院長知不知道其實我們在這個"},{"start":29872.381,"end":29891.288,"text":"1959"},{"start":29892.466,"end":29921.327,"text":"我想這個動保的議題其實到目前為止其實從過去到現在其實也都在陸陸續續因為大家重視這個動物保護的一些觀念那我想這個從前年的叉叉案歷時了兩年在去年的時候其實已經確定這是第一個我覺得在動保法是非常大的一個鼓舞跟進步就是說這個施虐的行為人他其實已經真的確定被定焉就是他違反動保法而入獄服刑"},{"start":29922.028,"end":29936.902,"text":"那我想這是我們在臺灣的動保界是一個很大的一個鼓舞喔但是其實在動保我們還存在了有很多很多的一個問題那包含現在其實我們大概知道說在動檢員也就是動保員他們其實在接獲所謂的1959的一個通報的專案的時候"},{"start":29939.104,"end":29945.127,"text":"我們可以大概看一下比方說我們以新北市來說他們整個所有整體的動保員也就是動檢員的編制包含動檢員大概只有六七個就我所知因為其實我有跟他們接觸過"},{"start":29964.415,"end":29988.945,"text":"那另外在動保員的一個整個所有的編制內其實大概就是28位但是他們在去年統計他們接到的報案量是高達了將近快要到3萬多件將近快4萬件那也就是說每一位動檢員他們的這個所身上所背負的案件其實是非常非常之多那再來他們立即碰到的一些困難就包含第一收證不易"},{"start":29990.265,"end":30010.794,"text":"﹚接到電話的同時因為動檢員自己本身他們是屬於編制內的那以新北市來講他們是所謂的編制的公務人員的這樣子的一個上班的制度他從早上8點9點到當晚的5點大概就已經下班了下班之後那這些如果真的碰到他們接到這個電話的時候其實他們"},{"start":30011.354,"end":30012.595,"text":"我跟委員說明現在目前整個的"},{"start":30028.545,"end":30042.846,"text":"動保的一個接受1959的案件裡面全台灣大概有13萬件那其中比較大的數量比較大的就是雙北跟高雄的地區平均大概就像委員所說的2萬多件的部分然後"},{"start":30043.467,"end":30072.154,"text":"也的確他的動保人員的整個分配以目前來講全台灣的動保檢查人員大概是239人那農業部從去年8月1日我們成立農業部以來我們特別成立一個動保師那其實我們成立動保師的目的就是說希望更加強整個動物福利系統的一個處理方式那第二個部分是整個動保人員他接受到報案以後再去查核的部分那依現在的動保法其實"},{"start":30074.334,"end":30094.922,"text":"警方就會依相關的職權可以來協處的部分那現在目前我想我們朝向的就是第一個增加我們想辦法增加這些財力比較弱的這些縣市本身的動保檢察人員第二個部分就是我們跟市府那個警察系統能夠做更多的橫向的一個聯繫"},{"start":30095.222,"end":30104.055,"text":"所以這個其實我們講動保警察這件事情其實提案已經很久的一段時間但是一直到目前為止其實我們是沒辦法落實這個制度的"},{"start":30105.306,"end":30126.241,"text":"我們現在就是因為整個動保檢查本身的職權制內政部但是我們也跨部也討論過整個動保本身的一個執行是因為法律授權的關係所以只要我們在相關的動保法裡面有規範的時候一般的警察也可以介入來協助而不一定是一定要專責是動保警察"},{"start":30126.957,"end":30141.305,"text":"但是因為其實我所接觸到的就是本席所接觸到的一些就是他們跟我說的陳述的一些狀況是通常這些動保員到了現場第一線的時候其實他們常常是不得其門而入所以只要是"},{"start":30142.537,"end":30158.579,"text":"被通報的這一戶所謂的行為人他如果他的寵物是外觀上看不出來的沒有明顯的營養不良也沒有明顯的一個外傷其實是我們是沒有辦法在第一時間把動物就是帶走救援"},{"start":30159.779,"end":30185.847,"text":"另外一個狀況就是他們所碰到的是我剛剛講經常是資深前往但是午點之後變成是外包的單位這些外包的單位他們也許在動物保護的這些法令上面其實他們是嘗試是比較不足的所以其實在實施所以剛剛為什麼看到他們的成案率會這麼的低如果是以新北市來講他的成案率只有0.02"},{"start":30188.969,"end":30208.671,"text":"一整年當中有三萬多件但是它真正能夠違反動保法成案的比例是非常非常之低的那我相信除了在新北市其實還有很多的縣市成案率是零那這個我在想是不是我們在這個部分可以在所謂的動保員或者動檢員的人力的配置"},{"start":30209.432,"end":30237.419,"text":"分配不均的一個狀態之下那再來就是他們有時候必須去協同警方去幫忙一起去處理前往去處理因為警察比較知道要怎麼樣去做修正的工作但是問題是動保員他們沒有這方面的一個權利他們是你們是不是可以稍微跨部會比方說我們可能跟警政署這邊來做一些配合那我舉例來說因為警察的工作當然我們知道他們的工作其實是非常繁忙的啦"},{"start":30237.739,"end":30238.099,"text":"對行政院院長"},{"start":30247.731,"end":30267.472,"text":"做出這樣子的一個員員就的一個動作那是不是可以就是我們鼓勵這些員警就是我們可能跨部會可能到時候再跟我們的警政署這邊看怎麼樣來協調是不是鼓勵這些所謂的警察他們有一些獎勵的一些機制然後他們可以有一些所謂的績效上面的記點"},{"start":30268.513,"end":30294.378,"text":"然後鼓勵他們去陪同來做這件事情我相信一個人去跟兩個人去的效果我覺得兩個人去其中一位是警察是不是真的就能夠嚇阻所謂的施虐的行為人他們的即將要施虐的一個動作他們可能會收斂一點我們的成案率是雖然偏低因為這個部分目前搜證是比較無解的一個狀況但是是不是在這個部分我們是可以來做跨部會的一個協調"},{"start":30295.914,"end":30314.866,"text":"非常謝謝委員的建議,就是說我剛才也說的,現階段我們是去強化我們跟警政署、警察單位本身的一個聯繫跟互動。那您剛才講的一些誘因的機制有沒有,就是說讓警察更有意願的誘因機制,我想我們後續我們會朝這個方向去跟內政部、警政署那邊來處理。"},{"start":30315.566,"end":30324.917,"text":"我們請內政部長說明一下好不好。謝謝國會委員的指教。那依據大法官的一個釋制第588號的一個解釋,廣義的警察權還有動物保護法第23條的規定,這個動檢員這個是主管機關農業部的法定動保警察。"},{"start":30334.868,"end":30350.244,"text":"當然現在其實農業部也已經在辦理設立動保這個警察的專案的一個研究。他們的人數其實是少的喔。他們其實在整個所有的編制內的這個任務是繁重的,但他們的人數其實是少的。"},{"start":30350.444,"end":30366.318,"text":"是,因為這兩件事,一個是人數的問題,人力的問題,第二個是現在在研議有一些這樣的一個意見,就是修改動保法來給予這個凍結員部分司法警察權的一個方案。"},{"start":30366.878,"end":30393.902,"text":"另外站在我們警政署的一個角度我們會全力來配合農業部相關的一個方案跟政策現在我們已經定班處理動物保護作業的程序的相關的規定我們也進行相關員警的一個訓練來協助配合我們希望很快可以聽到就是大家可以讓成案率提高然後真的能夠救援更多的動物因為其實在2月份的時候我不知道"},{"start":30394.823,"end":30409.624,"text":"我想很大的一個新聞啦就是在嘉義發生一位核心女子那麼在她的因為她是租金繳不出來後來是被房東說她為什麼這個門很久沒開了打開之後發現有70幾隻的毛孩子"},{"start":30410.247,"end":30434.94,"text":"﹚"},{"start":30436,"end":30459.942,"text":"另外其實就是在我們的檢疫所我知道其實昨天這個也要給我們一些肯定啦在昨天其實我們公布了就是如果有市主他們是從國外回來然後帶著他們的寵物回來其實有條件的是可以開放他可以放寬他是不用7天隔離隔離期這樣那我記得其實在去年10月的時候其實我們農業部他們你們你們也真的也"},{"start":30460.502,"end":30485.631,"text":"也說這個我們的檢疫所現有的檢疫所其實在一個月之內是去年10月講的在一個月之內希望能夠改善這個檢疫隔離所的就是寵物的他們的一個環境那這個部分有做到嗎我想跟委員說明我們現在目前的觀音的那個隔離檢疫所大概分兩個部分一個部分是經濟動物的部分那另外一個部分是跟寵物有關的那寵物有關的現在的最主要是貓犬的部分"},{"start":30486.431,"end":30514.746,"text":"那貓血那個隔離的那個房舍我們基本的改善都已經完成了但是我覺得它還有更大的改善空間所以我們在上個禮拜我們內部也討論了我們準備提一個中長層計畫用4年的時間因為它第一個在海邊它的籠子很容易鏽掉所以有一些基礎的設施它是可以在更精進的部分那我們希望說透過這樣的一個改善能夠"},{"start":30516.867,"end":30543.141,"text":"因為特別現在很多毛小孩都是從國外有沒有,國外進來的時候讓這些毛小孩的主人去到觀音的這些隔離檢驗室的時候是會有不一樣的感覺的。我想其實可以放寬事主去探望自己的毛小孩的一個時間。因為我想說一般寵物旅館都可以做到24小時可以隨時監看自己的寵物在幹嘛。沒道理我們自己的檢驗所做不到,好不好?好,這個一定做得到。好不好?"},{"start":30543.581,"end":30545.463,"text":"影視文化的從業人員的職災是一般勞工的大概幾倍?"},{"start":30570.963,"end":30594.214,"text":"這個方面我是大概是八倍所以一般呢其實以電視電影從業人員他們的工時其實都是超過一般勞工很多很多有時候可能一連這個戲一拍下來可能真的都要好幾天沒睡覺都14個小時到16個小時叫做一般啦叫做平均啦那當然其實我們知道這個在2022年3月份"},{"start":30596.396,"end":30612.25,"text":"我們馬上其實文化部這邊也啟動了所謂的勞檢的制度對不對那那個時候其實是文化部給我們的一些資料就是說有提供這個勞檢就是的部分是25家對不對那這25家的名單是怎麼來的"},{"start":30613.406,"end":30615.948,"text":"主動積極的就是這個氛圍我們可以掌握到多少?因為我想25家其實包含我們的棚內"},{"start":30633.86,"end":30658.433,"text":"或者是我們到了外縣市到了其他的鄉鎮市去取景的時候其實我相信我們臺灣的影視公司絕對不只25家所以我們希望能夠擴大然後再更多的一些掌握的數據所以我剛剛跟委員報告不只25家因為現在每個縣市其實都有協拍中心只是要他申請協拍我們就會知道說他其實他的開拍狀況那事實上都會跟各縣市或者是各地方的勞檢單位連線都會主動來進行勞檢"},{"start":30661.394,"end":30681.609,"text":"所以我剛剛講到其實職安的措施其實它是非常非常的重要就針對所謂的影視那我們將來是不是有可能可以把所謂的職安的這樣子的一個觀念因為現在其實有很多的大專院校是相關影視的他們可能一畢業之後就會投入這樣子的一個產業是不是也要加強是不是有可能成為他們的必修課這個我們來"},{"start":30683.711,"end":30693.577,"text":"我們現在是沒有必消課不過我們是透過工協會事實上有持續在進行有關於勞教以及相關的宣導事實上參加的人數也一直持續增加"},{"start":30696.084,"end":30721.23,"text":"最後一個部分其實我想要提到的就是其實在我們的影視工作產業當中不管是幕前或幕後有很多的資深的人員他們其實真的一輩子為臺灣貢獻尤其是在這樣子的一個影視文化的一個平台當中那我們是不是能夠啟動一些主動關懷而不是他們要用急難申請的方式還要經過審核既然是急難救助"},{"start":30721.63,"end":30728.66,"text":"﹗"},{"start":30729.181,"end":30755.392,"text":"以前可能真的叱吒風雲可是現在我要讓大家知道說我需要幫助這對他們來講已經是身心上面的一個小小的障礙了更何況我還要經過審查然後真的審查到審查過後的所謂的極難的救助可能又有一段的時間這個部分我們是不是很快的希望能夠由我們文化部這個地方我們自己來做起能夠讓更多的這一方面的"},{"start":30767.913,"end":30768.914,"text":"請登記第31位陳委員培餘質詢。"},{"start":30800.353,"end":30819.964,"text":"有請行政院長,謝謝。麻煩再請陳院長備詢。還有教育部長,謝謝。麻煩請教育部部長備詢。兩位院長很不好意思因為我確診,所以我要戴著口罩。沒關係,多多保重。陳委員午安,多多保重,然後恭喜你再繼續擔任立委。"},{"start":30826.589,"end":30851.506,"text":"關於這個部分我們今天一直以來我們其實都跟教育部一直在討論關於體育改革的部分但是體育改革題目真的非常龐大又複雜那我們今天只選幾個比較重要的事情希望教育部搭配行政院的高度來解決今天我們所說的一些小小的問題但是非常有機會從這些小小的問題上來看到政府的決心"},{"start":30853.147,"end":30874.504,"text":"好第一個我個人非常認同賴清德在當選總統之後他告訴我他告訴大家民進黨要當改革第一個品牌那這第一名的品牌是什麼意思我想先請部長跟院長看一下在選舉之前我們看到體育署有出了一個這個list說體育政策大盤點也就是說在這八年當中有非常多體育改革已經積極在進行中"},{"start":30875.985,"end":30901.468,"text":"但是這些改革裡面我們卻看不到一個很重要的東西就是單向協會的改革那通常會在網路上引起非常多公民的討論常常就出現在協會跟選手的溝通上那上個禮拜莊瑞雄委員在質詢的時候其實也有提到一個非常重要的事情就是教育部不能再或是體育署不能再只當單向協會的提款機不知道這個部分院長跟部長您他們印象"},{"start":30902.923,"end":30903.283,"text":"國民體育法"},{"start":30925.586,"end":30929.429,"text":"的單項數量也相當多。而且事情很多。目前應該說多數的這些單項不管他們在選舉"},{"start":30937.174,"end":30944.879,"text":"所以聽起來部長確實非常明白確實還有很多事情需要努力但是我說我今天只提幾個小小的現象而且是我們可以立刻解決的在這個照片不知道院長你有沒有印象"},{"start":30962.049,"end":30985.629,"text":"臺威斯杯那這個比賽呢其實我也到現場去看了我必須要說但是在這個比賽前呢出了一些事情其實當時我們在12月的時候我們在教育文化委員會就黃國書委員還有陳慶明委員還有我我們透過臨時提案就已經要求體育署要去提醒網協在臺威斯杯關於選手的出場費還有保險費必須要趕快去協商跟討論因為我們聽到都還沒有進展"},{"start":30988.271,"end":31012.099,"text":"我們在1月的時候就收到了相關教育部的回函說網協已經跟選手往外溝通但是在比賽前6天在這個頭影片的右半部我們看到了有一個應該是選手的朋友或者是選手的家人他說臺威斯北已經只剩6天但選手依然沒有聽到任何跟保險費還有票房分潤或是出場費有關的事情"},{"start":31013.444,"end":31033.502,"text":"而且還發生更離譜的現象以我過去做文化工作網協他們甚至還製作了相關選手肖像的周邊產品是沒有告訴選手的甚至他們還規劃了簽名會也是沒有告訴選手的但是所有的事情都已經對外對球迷公告於是選手就必須要忍氣吞聲配合網協"},{"start":31035.472,"end":31062.826,"text":"那我們知道了這個事情之後我們第一時間去到國手他們練習的場地去跟他們對話那這個對話看起來應該是很平和的一個現場對嗎我們只是想要聽一聽到底網協還疏漏了哪些事情其實立法院可以透過跟體育署對話去協助選手可是就當我們那一天分享完這張照片在社群媒體上告訴選手請他們不用擔心我們會積極的跟體育署溝通我馬上就收到另外一封來信"},{"start":31064.585,"end":31083.955,"text":"就是我貼出來這個有一個選手家人就寫信到我們辦公室信箱我想念給院長聽喔他說我們這張照片可不可以從臉書上面拿下來因為他看到他自己的家人就出現在照片當中他的第一個反應是完了他說委員我相信你應該理解臺灣的階級文化跟行政文化"},{"start":31084.395,"end":31112.766,"text":"用膝蓋想也知道之後往協賽分配資源或是任何的溝通合作我們的選手家人都會非常容易被針對被貼標籤或者莫名遭受刁難在選手與協會的溝通都已經不是很順暢的情況下這樣子露出他們臉的照片非常容易被誤解可是第一時間其實我們要貼這個照片的時候我就跟助理溝通說是不是現場所有的選手都同意我們才發在社群媒體上當然選手是都同意的可是"},{"start":31113.266,"end":31134.649,"text":"竟然這件事情是選手的家人感覺到恐懼,那院長你也知道我過去一直在做兒童界的人權教育,其實我非常非常難過,當我看到選手的家人第一時間必須站出來為選手發聲,連這樣的照片他們都感到恐懼,我先說我當天的處理是我就自己回信,同時我也第一時間把照片撤下來。"},{"start":31135.249,"end":31150.988,"text":"可是我要說的是為什麼我們的選手還要擔心被協會清算、被協會針對甚至有可能成為相關政治活動下的祭品這樣真的是我們要給選手的選手人生嗎?我想問一下院長您看到這邊您有什麼感覺?"},{"start":31151.829,"end":31178.193,"text":"因為您也到過臺灣慈悲現場看到這樣的臉書我是覺得蠻難過的尤其是那一封來信對嗎對那我會覺得如果是這樣的話那選手跟協會之間的溝通顯然是出現了很大的問題那這一個部分我想這個體育署是責無旁貸一定要好好的來跟這一個單項協會做更好的溝通而且要保障"},{"start":31178.703,"end":31179.083,"text":"相信院長講到這邊應該就是"},{"start":31199.073,"end":31222.845,"text":"可以想像可是院長可能很好奇為什麼我在總質詢的時候講一個這麼小的事情是因為其實我們還有女足公會的陳情那女足公會跟協會這邊是因為協會要他們簽了一個不合適的合約甚至告訴他們如果你們不簽這個合約你們後續集訓的費用是會沒有的甚至要他們讓渡包含肖像權的事情又是發生跟往期很類似的事情我們再往下看"},{"start":31224.719,"end":31241.772,"text":"還有這個包含籃球國家隊的部分也發生了類似類似的事情所以我想要問部長跟院長讓我們來看一下籃球隊的國家隊長他在比賽完後他也在臉書上寫了一篇他自己語重心長其中有一段話他說說實話去國外參加這麼多的國際賽事"},{"start":31244.594,"end":31258.18,"text":"偶爾會跟其他國家的運動員交流我們真的還有很多地方需要改進跟進步有沒有機會把各項制度規章都訂好讓大家可以更明確知道要怎麼透明的運作這些球隊也就是說我剛剛只是講了網協、足協跟藍協如同剛剛部長說的"},{"start":31262.722,"end":31273.088,"text":"的制度跟協會的數量種類跟必須要整理的工作真的很多很多所以我真的想要拜託我認為陳院長您絕對不會只是看守內閣我們機會在520以前我們就開始進行"},{"start":31277.67,"end":31305.006,"text":"現在短時間之內就可以做到的體育改革。包括我們今天講的問題光是這三個協會所發生的很多事情有沒有機會在520以前進行相關的了解跟處理當然需要教育部這邊協助再來就是針對近年協會的改革讓民眾失望的部分還有選手權益平傳這個問題有沒有機會提供一份完整的檢討報告這個部分真的也需要行政院的高度來幫忙最後一個相關球員的權益問題"},{"start":31306.227,"end":31326.941,"text":"是不是應該以後教育部來主責而不是只有交給體育署再來不要再給立法院很多不實的報告就像我剛剛已經給院長看到了我們要求他們要及早舉行協商會議可是他們給立法院的回覆卻是根本都沒有這件事情但是他們卻說有所以這個簡單的幾個訴求是不是可以請院長在這邊先表示您的想法"},{"start":31327.501,"end":31343.703,"text":"我可以答應委員,既然這個是需要做很好的改革,所以這個部分我會請教育部來做一個很徹底的檢討的報告,然後我也要來聽他們報告的內容,然後看看怎麼樣來做進一步的改進。"},{"start":31344.404,"end":31344.845,"text":"主席"},{"start":31365.003,"end":31389.228,"text":"其中有一個是適應體育的部分因為我們聽到特教生的學生、特教生的家長還有老師他們都很清楚知道特教生所需要的是適應體育可是不管是特教老師或者是一般老師對於如何協助特教生進行適應體育其實雖然體育署有相關的事辦計畫但其實在現場的實施都還不夠貼近第一線的需求甚至量能是不足的"},{"start":31389.528,"end":31414.352,"text":"那這個部分我們是不是就快速的請教一部有沒有機會現在開始來盤點或者是規劃相關的計畫讓這件事情可以走得更快因為部長你一定知道這幾年來關於特教生的數字一直上升所以適應體育這件事情可能過往我們以為是給少數的特教生但特教生越來越多的情況下我相信這件事情已經非常非常急迫這邊是不是可以請部長回應一下"},{"start":31415.832,"end":31443.872,"text":"謝謝委員我想這次特教法經過14年在修委員在上一屆也充分的參與了解確實是一個比較全面性的將我們面對特教生的所相關的這些議題因為目前也都幾個執法都正在做最後的這個討論跟確定碰碰看委員提到對於適應體育的這部分過去體育署在這上面是有一些規劃但是我想要落實到"},{"start":31445.114,"end":31471.656,"text":"這個學校的這部分需要再跟國教署我想需要他們兩個單位就這個議題來從過去我們所對適應體育的一些規劃做法到到位的這部分我想我會請兩個署在這方面能夠來協力能夠往下來進一步的更深化這個部分除了我剛剛講的適應體育之外今天早上我們辦公室也跟范雲委員還有陳俊文開了一個記者會"},{"start":31473.337,"end":31492.014,"text":"有一個宜蘭的學校他用了沒有正式教師資格也沒有特教老師專業的代理老師去現場去幼教的現場對待特教的幼童有非常不當的體罰跟管教的方法那我們可以發現有沒有可能是因為相關的待遇不夠好"},{"start":31492.914,"end":31522.034,"text":"導致有很多有教育背景專業的老師或是特教背景的老師他們不願意進入教育現場甚至我們聽到非常多特教老師告訴我們他們寧願去做普生教師他們有特教專業在身上他們有特教徵召但是他們並不想去當特教老師我相信這個事情部長你一定知道所以這個部分我們後續也想要跟教育部繼續討論如何提供特師正常的工作環境保障特師的權益同時也保障特生他們在學校現場的受教權"},{"start":31522.814,"end":31538.637,"text":"這個部分因為時間有限我們是不是就先簡單帶過之後再跟教育部積極討論還有包含特教助理員他們相關的福利措施有沒有機會提升到全國一致這當然需要跟全國各地的縣市政府教育局討論可是我們現在看到很大一個明顯的不同"},{"start":31539.338,"end":31543.739,"text":"我還是跟委員補充報告一下因為這個部分我也要跟委員報告也要謝謝院長我想對於特教法這次的修當中特教的助理員這一塊因為"},{"start":31567.645,"end":31592.974,"text":"確實是過去相當不足的,那院這邊在去年的下半年也合訂了一個這個有關特教學生助理員的品質服務計畫,這個4年其實是有很大的改變,尤其是專任助理的部分,4年總共會有1600位,那對於部分的這一方面對於他們的薪資跟這一方面"},{"start":31593.424,"end":31620.215,"text":"也有一個比較整體性的規劃這個相較過往由縣市自己個別定落差非常的大那現在目前國教署也正在定相關的要點跟手冊也就是如委員所說的未來應該是要讓全國在這方面比較走向一致的做法那經費也有大幅的提升目前特效助理員在11、3年已經到10億相較於1、2年是增加4億多我想這部分"},{"start":31620.951,"end":31645.14,"text":"主臉也就希望能夠在這方面因為特教老師、特教的孩子真的是特別辛苦所以我想這方面我們就積極討論好嗎您剛剛說的我都認同所以我剛剛只是說有沒有機會全國一致我們要繼續討論跟努力那接下來營養午餐的部分我想部長一定都知道我一直一直在跟您討論營養午餐我們也很高興看到部長您在之前開記者會承諾那我們就是幫部長整理了"},{"start":31645.6,"end":31671.516,"text":"我們在還沒有看到行政院的版本之前我們持續協助整理問題那我們就不讓部長回答因為時間有限但是我就分享了10個我們看到很大很大的問題第一個專訪適用範圍到底有沒有包含幼兒園及高中職還有跨部會合作的部分因為有沒有可能食材是跟農業部有關衛生管理跟衛福部有關可是我們在食農教育法裡面已經實施的食農教育法裡面看到一個很重要的問題當它跨部會的時候有沒有"},{"start":31672.196,"end":31672.216,"text":"的規範．"},{"start":31688.604,"end":31702.81,"text":"還有中央跟地方學校有沒有就營養午餐的供應政策運作的方法飲食的教育設置相關的委員會我們提到委員會的格局是希望有專業的討論進到這裡頭然後讓大家的聲音都被聽見了好接下來"},{"start":31705.465,"end":31705.586,"text":"接下來﹖"},{"start":31761.684,"end":31784.217,"text":"謝謝陳委員培餘的質詢。也非常謝謝陳院長、政府院長以及各位首長特別跟大家報告。報告院會本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢。謝謝,再一次感謝陳院長、政府院長以及各部會首長列席答詢。3月5日星期二上午9時繼續開會進行施政方針及施政報告之質詢。現在休會。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}