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委員好部長你好今天審查預算啊我給他算了一下你這個樹花部啊花錢毫不手軟欸樹花部大概我不知道這預算是不是你編的那個你其實部長以前編的還是你知道"},{"start":32.441,"end":46.394,"text":"委員這個是這個是你編的這個是但是我們各個署跟不是是不是你編的啦你有沒有看啦有看啦有看你可以看喔各位看喔國外旅費"},{"start":48.369,"end":65.307,"text":"蘇巴部平均6.19萬本部8.5萬中央政府平均1.7萬所以旅費就3.54倍平均本部就你蘇巴部4.86倍尾半備用"},{"start":69.15,"end":96.722,"text":"委辦費用委辦給人家平均40%數位產發署等於數月產發署68%委外了中央只有2%所以是3、4倍啊這張圖啊要看你啦部長啊你這個部啊結果呢你要打造儀表板啊"},{"start":98.697,"end":113.862,"text":"一天被騙5億九成都是投資詐騙到現在為止我們政府的單位成立的越多打詐國家隊打詐辦公室成立越多詐騙越多一年就是87億"},{"start":117.177,"end":134.598,"text":"這個東西你要不要回應一下你們為什麼這樣胡亂編啊編成數花部這樣國外旅遊部啊編這樣子啊國外旅費不是就國外旅遊部啊尾半倍啊你們是不是人都不要用了通知委員會就好了人家二十倍三十四倍到底是什麼意思啊"},{"start":136.84,"end":163.647,"text":"我們因為數位發展我們數位經濟本來就會跟國外尤其是資安跟國外有很多互動所以我們在這邊的經費會...阿幾個月出國?沒有就是...幾個月出國?沒有那個...阿就是3.54倍阿平均你們部裡面4.86倍阿我跟你講阿我全部砍喔那個我可以請那個...那個我們...我全部砍喔我告訴你這數法部成為國外旅遊部"},{"start":165.98,"end":175.773,"text":"跟委員報告齁那因為速發部成立之後有非常多的業務包含跟美國或者是歐洲這邊會有很大量的這種玩法你們的成效過去唐鳳當部長呢弄個點面線APP 這樣而已什麼成果也沒有還要講兩個半天"},{"start":184.504,"end":203.859,"text":"是,各位再補充一下,比如說以歐洲地區好了,那歐洲因為我們現在跟英國其實也在做禁賣談判。啊人家都不要出國,你講這個假講話啦,沒有人相信啦,成效也很差。啊人家點名台灣的詐騙,三大機關要負最大責任,數位發布。"},{"start":205.225,"end":209.571,"text":"政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":224.09,"end":233.959,"text":"拜託委員我上任之後在資安的這些工作都有在加強包括集合你沒有回答我啦為什麼委你講出國陸陸登委辦為什麼這麼高啦委辦不用為什麼這麼高"},{"start":236.681,"end":237.781,"text":"為什麼你是人家的3、4倍?為什麼你是人家的20倍?你這個為什麼?"},{"start":266.389,"end":280.031,"text":"為什麼啊 為什麼會這樣子啊 34倍 別人你剛剛講那個理由 別的單位也要啊 也要回給工人院 也要回給工協會 為什麼你們特別多 就代表你們特別懶惰啊"},{"start":280.987,"end":299.755,"text":"你們特別懶惰啊!你們的人就欸欸啊!都放棄!還是你們特別不專業!人家也專業!產業推動我請署長說明一下跟委員報告我要送經濟部來我們在以前在工業局其實委辦會也是因為就是要做產業報告你給我查一下齁你今天你回答我都不滿意了根本都沒有回答我重點齁你給我寫個簡單的報告可以嗎?這個禮拜寫給我3天3天給我齁還我問一下部長"},{"start":308.399,"end":311.663,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":325.987,"end":353.242,"text":"像OneWeb的那個推動跟使用是塑化部在推動啊他們在STARLINK那個馬斯克那個SpaceX要離開台灣有沒有這回事啊這個因為這屬於經濟部的那個產業面我不清楚但是在服務上那個STARLINK我們有試著去跟他好那你給我時間表齁你不管怎麼樣因為我時間到了齁不要花太多時間你回答我"},{"start":354.022,"end":377.612,"text":"我們什麼時候台灣可以見到全面性的低軌道軌心可以取代我們現在的海底電纜否則的話一打仗有什麼問題這個是在國科會那邊在太空中心你告訴我你有參與嗎我們這不是在commercial已經在run的系統我們去想辦法讓他在台灣落地"},{"start":378.092,"end":379.895,"text":"現在都沒有?什麼時候可以?什麼時候?什麼時候可以有6G啊?"},{"start":393.524,"end":397.027,"text":"6G20302030那個標準還沒定現在不是有B5G嗎B5G還在對B5G到6G還有點距離但是6G2030B5G2030有沒有"},{"start":412.501,"end":412.882,"text":"主席主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":767,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（11時57分）謝謝主席！有請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：部長你好。今天審查預算，我算了一下，你這個數發部花錢毫不手軟耶！部長，我不知道這預算是不是你編的？是你接部長前編的還是你知道？"],["黃部長彥男：委員，這個是我們各個署……"],["賴委員士葆：是不是你編的啦？你有沒有看？"],["黃部長彥男：有看啦！"],["賴委員士葆：請各位看好喔！國外旅費這一項，數發部平均6.19萬元，本部是8.5萬元，中央政府平均才1.7萬元，所以你們的平均旅費是中央的3.54倍，數發部本部則為4.86倍；委辦費用的部分，人家平均是40%，數位產業署委外卻高達68%，中央只有2%，所以是34倍，這張圖真的教人看不下去啦！部長，你這一個部離離落落，可是結果呢？打詐儀表板顯示一天被騙5億元，九成都是投資詐騙，到現在為止，我們政府的單位成立得愈多、國家打詐隊、打詐辦公室成立得愈多，詐騙愈多，一年就是八十幾億元！你們要不要回應一下為什麼這樣胡亂編，變成數發部國外旅遊部？國外旅費不就是去國外旅遊嘛！至於委辦費，你們是不是都不要用人了，統統委辦就好了？經費是人家的20倍、34倍，到底是怎麼一回事？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，因為數位發展、數位經濟跟資安本來就會跟國外有很多互動，所以我們在這邊的經費……"],["賴委員士葆：真的需要出國？錢都用來出國？"],["黃部長彥男：沒有啦！就是……"],["賴委員士葆：明明就是人家平均的3.54倍啊！本部是4.86倍啊！我跟你講我全部砍喔！我全部砍喔！我告訴你，數發部成為國外旅遊部。"],["黃部長彥男：我可不可以請司長說明？"],["莊司長盈志：跟委員報告，因為數發部成立之後有非常多的業務，包含跟美國或者是歐洲這邊會有很大量的互動……"],["賴委員士葆：你們的成效，過去唐鳳當部長弄了一個「點麵線」app而已，什麼成果也沒有，還在那裡講了半天。"],["莊司長盈志：跟委員再補充一下，比如說歐洲地區，因為我們現在跟英國其實有進行新的談判……"],["賴委員士葆：奇怪！人家都不要出國！你說這些都是白說的啦！沒有人相信啦！成效也很差。人家都點名臺灣的詐騙，三大機關要負最大責任─數發部、金管部、法務部，你們詐騙的事情也做不好，防詐很重要也做不好，資安也做不好，現在人家只要花差不多500塊美金就可以買到臺灣全部的個資，你知道嗎？部長，你知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我上任之後，在資安部分剛剛講的這些工作都有在加強，包括稽核……"],["賴委員士葆：你沒有回答我啦，你講了落落長，沒說為什麼出國費用、委辦費用這麼高啦！"],["黃部長彥男：委辦是因為我們有很多計畫是委託給比如工研院、資策會、工協會去執行，包括剛剛講的就是，因為我們發展用AI去做很多數位轉型，這些計畫都需要再做研發，所以……"],["賴委員士葆：你這些理由其他單位都存在，為什麼你的委辦費是人家的34倍？為什麼你的平均數是人家的20倍？為什麼？為什麼會這樣子？你剛剛講的那個理由別的單位也要啊！也要委託給工研院，也要給工協會，為什麼你們特別多？就代表你們特別懶惰啊！你們特別懶惰啊！你們就全都推給AI啊！還是你們特別不專業？"],["黃部長彥男：產業推動部分請署長說明一下。"],["林代理署長俊秀：跟委員報告，我是從經濟部來，以前在工業局，其實委辦費就是要去做產業發展。"],["賴委員士葆：你去查一下喔，你今天的回答我都不滿意，根本都沒有回答到重點，你給我寫個簡單的報告，可以嗎？這個禮拜前要給我，3天給我。","我再問一下部長，你知道Starlink嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：知道。"],["賴委員士葆：臺灣有沒有在發展低軌道衛星？"],["黃部長彥男：臺灣現在是用OneWeb，臺灣現在成兩部分，一部分是既有的系統用英國的OneWeb。"],["賴委員士葆：數發部有沒有角色扮演？"],["黃部長彥男：像OneWeb的推動跟使用是數發部在推動。"],["賴委員士葆：現在SpaceX的Starlink要離開臺灣，有沒有這回事？"],["黃部長彥男：因為這個屬於經濟部的產業面，我不清楚，但是在服務上，那個Starlink我們有試著去跟他談。"],["賴委員士葆：請你給我時間表。因為我發言時間到了，你不用花太多時間回答我，臺灣什麼時候可以見到以全面性的低軌道衛星取代我們現在的海底電纜？否則的話，一打仗或出什麼問題都沒辦法處理。"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，這個是國科會太空中心在處理。"],["賴委員士葆：你剛剛說你有參與啊！"],["黃部長彥男：我們是在Commercial已經在run的系統，我們去想辦法讓它在臺灣落地。"],["賴委員士葆：現在都沒有？"],["黃部長彥男：現在就是OneWeb。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼時候？"],["黃部長彥男：今年已經通了，OneWeb年底全通，年底在臺灣任何地方、24小時都可以有低軌衛星通訊。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼時候可以有6G？"],["黃部長彥男：6G還早，那個標準還沒定，所以要到2030年。"],["賴委員士葆：現在不是有V5G嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：V5G到6G還有點距離。"],["賴委員士葆：V5G什麼時候？"],["黃部長彥男：V5G也還在研議。"],["賴委員士葆：6G是到2030年，V5G是什麼時候？"],["牛司長信仁：現在還在規劃當中，全世界都在嘗試在做這件事情。"],["賴委員士葆：在6G之前還是6G之後？"],["牛司長信仁：6G之前。"],["黃部長彥男：先有V5G，但是5G現在都還在布建中。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員。","接下來邀請黃國昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}