{"error":false,"id":["156837"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":156837,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156837","日期":"2024-11-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-2-20-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":2,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-11-13T12:46:57+08:00","結束時間":"2024-11-13T12:52:56+08:00","影片長度":"00:05:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678acceaf25a3364b7856f61c8275d0c8f2ea236d48226e86be4c7f6e4539bc04505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"12:46:57 - 12:52:56","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai 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Tahovecahe等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人"},{"start":36.735,"end":58.03,"text":"公布的獎額有沒有公布得獎人得獎人應該沒有沒有啊你知道為什麼沒有公布得獎人還是很多民眾會去買都根本不知道誰得獎欸為什麼大家去買那當然去買的人都希望有一些希望嘛存有心中的一個美好的希望對啊我告訴你去買的人就是因為相信政府啦沒錯吧"},{"start":59.91,"end":66.724,"text":"如果說講希望的話我也可以再辦一個大樂透對不對大家來跟我買那中獎是我決定來誰中獎會有人來買嗎?"},{"start":71.474,"end":93.414,"text":"委員意思就是說政府在辦這一類的這樣的時候第一個很重要的就是誠信公開公正公平我覺得這個是一定要做到的所以我想部長你也知道我要質詢哪個題目啦我要特別講你們辦的那個雲端眾數區一起集點數的抽獎活動那現在已經在網路上是炸開很多人真的這件事情就是"},{"start":94.625,"end":115.359,"text":"足以潰體啊就是讓財政部的公信力受損的話那政府辦的任何抽獎大家都會質疑啊那我們再提出來這個就是有四位民眾重複中大獎那時候我跟財政部曾經質詢過這機率多少啊?機率多大?天文數字吧"},{"start":116.087,"end":132.904,"text":"我知道很多人去試算了一下,可能是什麼兆分之一啊,大家都在那邊試算,當然我覺得這個事情,這個廠商在這個程式的邏輯上,用很多的方式是有問題的來來來,然後你們說要去檢討嘛,我有看到你們檢討報告,那我想請問部長,你對這個檢討報告滿意嗎?"},{"start":138.41,"end":161.359,"text":"我們第一個就行政調查的部分我們做到第一個我們相關的人員跟這些中獎人士沒有任何關係包含三金等一類都不是我這樣講好了第二個就是說在他發票取得的部分我跟你講我就報告來跟你說是政府公信力三大基礎啦公平公正公開嘛對不對你的報告說吼廠商吼他沒有按照一般隨機抽獎方式你辦個抽獎一般來說一定就是隨機抽獎吧"},{"start":168.51,"end":192.19,"text":"你不按一般隨機抽獎就是不公正第二個你又說他才調高積極參加者之全數值給予優先抽獎機會嘛對不對那怎麼調高我想第一我先問問廠商沒有按照一般隨機抽獎的方式事前有讓財政部知道嗎你們同意嗎台北國稅局主辦這個我們也詢問過他並沒有告知台北國稅局對啊"},{"start":193.649,"end":203.886,"text":"你們也知道這會有問題的吧因為這會傷公信利的嘛然後第二個他可以採調高積極參加者的權值給予優先抽獎的機會他決定啦 對不對"},{"start":205.197,"end":231.187,"text":"對 所以這個部分我們認為這個有沒有什麼樣的不法行為在裡面跟中獎者之間有沒有什麼關聯第三個 我覺得這個財政部報告最不能接受的地方你說每位抽獎者能否中獎取決於前開抽獎程式鎖定變數尚難計算其中獎率你財政部主辦的抽獎到時候你告訴人家中獎率你都算不出來那我想請問"},{"start":233.015,"end":245.334,"text":"那請問我怎麼相信你在後面的後台比如說我後台怎麼調抽獎方式就後台決定啊如果這一套模式是用在大樂透你覺得大樂透會不會崩盤啊"},{"start":247.042,"end":272.548,"text":"我們這個部分才請檢調去調查局去做調查我跟部長說啊檢調當然要去查可是這一個所謂的抽獎的整個的流程你事前沒有掌握然後呢事後的報告你寫的這種狀況我覺得就提油救火嘛網路上評價這個報告叫裝效為報告啊你知道嗎你根本沒有沒有辦法修補你財政部的公信力啊"},{"start":273.55,"end":296.698,"text":"什麼叫做沒有按照一般隨機抽獎的模式他可以後台自己去調高所謂的所謂積極參加者那我就問嘛積極參加者什麼叫積極參加者到底多少張發票收集叫積極參加者部分我們去把它檢視它的程式以後我們誠實的去呈現也就是跟一般認為說這種隨機抽獎記錄最後我跟部長說我們非常誠實去呈現這個部分也請提票去調查提饋以穴"},{"start":304.056,"end":323.504,"text":"因為財政部不管是我們的發票對不對首獎一千萬動輒幾億的大樂透跟所謂的威力彩這些公益彩券其實人民之所以願意買只有一個原因啦我相信政府的公益我覺得政府不會搞我嘛一定是公平公正嘛"},{"start":324.244,"end":344.369,"text":"可是今天如果財政部自己主辦的抽獎活動大家覺得你不公平不公正我當然就開始對政府產生懷疑啊我跟部長不客氣的講當我質詢這個題目上個禮拜的時候底下留言一堆都是開始質疑什麼公益彩券啊我們當然不樂見這種情形可是財政部這種事情不能再發生好不好"},{"start":345.305,"end":357.226,"text":"不能讓它再發生好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝郭子強委員那鄭振全、鄭振全、鄭振全委員不在那我們接著請洪曼凱委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:46:59.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:00.701000+08:00","text":"主席，有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:01.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:03.425000+08:00","text":"我們請財政部莊部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:03.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:08.974000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:09.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:10.337000+08:00","text":"部長，請問你買過大樂透或威力彩嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:10.337000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:16.186500+08:00","text":"沒有耶！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:16.186500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:22.036000+08:00","text":"沒有啊，您作為公益彩券的主管機關，我建議你還是要買一下啦！好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:22.036000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:27.885500+08:00","text":"起碼體驗一下吧，你走到路口隨便一家去體驗，你是主管機關，總是要體驗一下。好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:27.885500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:33.735000+08:00","text":"請教大樂透跟威力彩有公布得獎人嗎？","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:33.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:34.976000+08:00","text":"公布的獎額……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:34.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:36.137000+08:00","text":"有沒有公布得獎人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:36.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:38.218000+08:00","text":"得獎人應該沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:38.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:45.543000+08:00","text":"沒有啊，那你知道為什麼沒有公布得獎人，還是很多民眾會去買，根本不知道誰得獎耶，為什麼大家去買？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:46.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:50.847000+08:00","text":"當然去買的人都有一些希望嘛，存著心中的一個美好的希望。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:51.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:51.267000+08:00","text":"希望啊？對啊！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:51.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:47:55.010000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，去買的人就是因為相信政府，沒錯吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:47:56.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:48:00.718000+08:00","text":"如果講希望的話，我也可以辦一個大樂透，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:48:00.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:48:03.724000+08:00","text":"大家來跟我買，中獎部分由我來決定誰中獎，那會有人來買嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:48:08.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:48:15.961000+08:00","text":"委員意思就是政府在辦這類事情的時候，第一個很重要的就是誠信、公開、公正、公平，我覺得這個是一定要做到。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:48:16.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:48:38.530000+08:00","text":"所以我想部長也知道我要質詢哪個題目，我要特別提到你們舉辦的「雲端種樹趣e起集點樹」抽獎活動，現在已經在網路上炸開，這件事情真的是足以潰堤，如果讓財政部公信力受損的話，那政府辦的任何抽獎活動，大家都會質疑啊。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:48:39.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:48:50.658000+08:00","text":"我們再提出來，有四位民眾重複中大獎，我曾經向財政部質詢這個機率有多大，請教機率多大？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:48:51.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:48:52.339000+08:00","text":"天文數字吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:48:53.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:48:59.333000+08:00","text":"我知道很多人去試算了一下，可能是什麼兆分之一或是多少，大家都在那邊試算。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:48:59.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:49:06.460000+08:00","text":"當然我覺得這個事情，廠商在這個程式的邏輯上，很多的方式是有問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:49:07.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:49:09.904000+08:00","text":"你們說要去檢討，我也看到你們的檢討報告，我想請問部長，你對這檢討報告滿意嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:49:15.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:49:23.433000+08:00","text":"第一個就行政調查的部分，我們做到相關的人員跟這些中獎人士沒有任何關係，包含三親等以內都不是。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:49:24.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:49:26.855000+08:00","text":"第二個就是有關發票取得的部分……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:49:27.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:49:34.218000+08:00","text":"我就報告來跟你說，政府公信力三大基礎就是公平、公正、公開，對不對？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:49:34.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:49:38.339000+08:00","text":"你的報告說廠商沒有按照一般隨機抽獎方式，你辦個抽獎，一般來說一定就是隨機抽獎吧！是啊！","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:49:45.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:49:47.492000+08:00","text":"你不按一般隨機抽獎就是不公正。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:49:48.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:49:56.199000+08:00","text":"第二個，你又說他採調高積極參加者之權數值給予優先抽獎機會，對不對？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:49:56.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:49:56.799000+08:00","text":"那怎麼調高？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:49:59.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:50:03.985000+08:00","text":"廠商沒有按照一般隨機抽獎的方式，事前有讓財政部知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:50:03.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:50:04.826000+08:00","text":"你們同意嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:50:04.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:50:09.169000+08:00","text":"這個是由臺北國稅局主辦，我們也詢問過，他並沒有告知臺北國稅局。對啊！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:50:10.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:50:12.172000+08:00","text":"你們也知道這個有問題了吧！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:50:12.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:50:13.814000+08:00","text":"因為這會傷害公信力的嘛！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:50:14.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:50:20.385000+08:00","text":"第二個，他可以採調高積極參加者權值給予優先抽獎的機會，他決定啊！","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:50:20.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:50:20.886000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:50:22.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:50:28.240000+08:00","text":"對，所以這個部分我們認為有沒有什麼樣的不法行為在裡面，跟中獎者之間有沒有什麼關聯，這要調查局去做調查。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:50:28.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:50:31.241000+08:00","text":"第三個，我覺得這個是財政部報告最不能接受的地方啦！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:50:32.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:50:40.624000+08:00","text":"你說每位抽獎者能否中獎，取決於前開抽獎程式鎖定變數，尚難計算其中獎率。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:50:42.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:50:57.026000+08:00","text":"財政部主辦的抽獎，到最後你告訴我連中獎率你都算不出來，我想請問，我怎麼相信你那後面的後台，也就是說後台怎麼調，抽獎方式就後台決定啊！","quality":0.817},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:50:58.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:51:02.314000+08:00","text":"如果這一套模式是用在大樂透，你覺得大樂透會不會崩盤啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:51:04.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:51:07.543000+08:00","text":"我們這個部分才請調查局去做調查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:51:07.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:51:21.566000+08:00","text":"我跟部長說，檢調當然要去查，可是所謂抽獎的整個流程，你事前沒有掌握，然後事後的報告，你寫的這種狀況，我覺得就是提油救火嘛！","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:51:22.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:51:24.567000+08:00","text":"網路上評價這個報告叫莊孝維報告啊！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:51:24.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:51:26.067000+08:00","text":"你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:51:26.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:51:29.528000+08:00","text":"你根本沒有辦法修補你財政部的公信力啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:51:30.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:51:33.571000+08:00","text":"什麼叫做沒有按照一般隨機抽獎的模式？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:51:34.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:51:38.893000+08:00","text":"他可以後台自己去調高所謂積極參加者，我就問嘛！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:51:39.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:51:40.693000+08:00","text":"什麼叫積極參加者？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:51:41.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:51:43.694000+08:00","text":"到底收集多少張發票叫積極參加者？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:51:45.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:51:53.398000+08:00","text":"針對這部分，我們去檢視他的程式以後，我們誠實的去呈現，也就是跟一般認為這種隨機抽獎的，我們非常誠實去呈現這個部分，也請檢調去調查。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:51:53.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:52:15.322000+08:00","text":"部長，最後跟您說堤潰蟻穴啦，不管是我們的發票首獎1,000萬元，或是動輒幾億的大樂透跟所謂的威力彩等這些公益彩券，其實人民之所以願意買只有一個原因啦！","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:52:16.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:52:19.063000+08:00","text":"我相信政府的公信力，我覺得政府不會搞我嘛！","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:52:19.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:52:20.484000+08:00","text":"一定是公平公正嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:52:21.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:52:28.446000+08:00","text":"可是今天如果財政部自己主辦的抽獎活動，大家覺得你不公平、不公正，我當然就開始對政府產生懷疑啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:52:28.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:52:35.207000+08:00","text":"我跟部長不客氣地講，當我上個禮拜質詢這個題目的時候，底下留言一堆都是開始質疑什麼？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:52:35.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:52:35.868000+08:00","text":"公益彩券啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-11-13T12:52:36.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:52:41.349000+08:00","text":"我們當然不樂見這種情形，可是財政部這種事情不能再發生好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-11-13T12:52:42.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:52:45.811000+08:00","text":"是，不能讓它再發生，謝謝委員。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-13T12:52:45.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:52:47.214000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝羅智強委員。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-13T12:52:49.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:52:52.283000+08:00","text":"鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐委員不在。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-11-13T12:52:53.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-11-13T12:52:54.226000+08:00","text":"接著請洪孟楷委員。","quality":0.75}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1439,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（12時47分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：我們請財政部莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長，請問你買過大樂透或威力彩嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有耶！"],["羅委員智強：沒有啊，您作為公益彩券的主管機關，我建議你還是要買一下啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：好。"],["羅委員智強：起碼體驗一下吧，你走到路口隨便一家去體驗，你是主管機關，總是要體驗一下。"],["莊部長翠雲：好。"],["羅委員智強：請教大樂透跟威力彩有公布得獎人嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：公布的獎額……"],["羅委員智強：有沒有公布得獎人？"],["莊部長翠雲：得獎人應該沒有。"],["羅委員智強：沒有啊，那你知道為什麼沒有公布得獎人，還是很多民眾會去買，根本不知道誰得獎耶，為什麼大家去買？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然去買的人都有一些希望嘛，存著心中的一個美好的希望。"],["羅委員智強：希望啊？"],["莊部長翠雲：對啊！"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，去買的人就是因為相信政府，沒錯吧？如果講希望的話，我也可以辦一個大樂透，對不對？大家來跟我買，中獎部分由我來決定誰中獎，那會有人來買嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員意思就是政府在辦這類事情的時候，第一個很重要的就是誠信、公開、公正、公平，我覺得這個是一定要做到。"],["羅委員智強：所以我想部長也知道我要質詢哪個題目，我要特別提到你們舉辦的「雲端種樹趣e起集點樹」抽獎活動，現在已經在網路上炸開，這件事情真的是足以潰堤，如果讓財政部公信力受損的話，那政府辦的任何抽獎活動，大家都會質疑啊。我們再提出來，有四位民眾重複中大獎，我曾經向財政部質詢這個機率有多大，請教機率多大？天文數字吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：我知道很多人去試算了一下，可能是什麼兆分之一或是多少，大家都在那邊試算。當然我覺得這個事情，廠商在這個程式的邏輯上，很多的方式是有問題。"],["羅委員智強：你們說要去檢討，我也看到你們的檢討報告，我想請問部長，你對這檢討報告滿意嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個就行政調查的部分，我們做到相關的人員跟這些中獎人士沒有任何關係，包含三親等以內都不是。第二個就是有關發票取得的部分……"],["羅委員智強：我就報告來跟你說，政府公信力三大基礎就是公平、公正、公開，對不對？你的報告說廠商沒有按照一般隨機抽獎方式，你辦個抽獎，一般來說一定就是隨機抽獎吧！"],["莊部長翠雲：是啊！"],["羅委員智強：你不按一般隨機抽獎就是不公正。第二個，你又說他採調高積極參加者之權數值給予優先抽獎機會，對不對？那怎麼調高？廠商沒有按照一般隨機抽獎的方式，事前有讓財政部知道嗎？你們同意嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個是由臺北國稅局主辦，我們也詢問過，他並沒有告知臺北國稅局。"],["羅委員智強：對啊！你們也知道這個有問題了吧！因為這會傷害公信力的嘛！第二個，他可以採調高積極參加者權值給予優先抽獎的機會，他決定啊！對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，所以這個部分我們認為有沒有什麼樣的不法行為在裡面，跟中獎者之間有沒有什麼關聯，這要調查局去做調查。"],["羅委員智強：第三個，我覺得這個是財政部報告最不能接受的地方啦！你說每位抽獎者能否中獎，取決於前開抽獎程式鎖定變數，尚難計算其中獎率。財政部主辦的抽獎，到最後你告訴我連中獎率你都算不出來，我想請問，我怎麼相信你那後面的後台，也就是說後台怎麼調，抽獎方式就後台決定啊！如果這一套模式是用在大樂透，你覺得大樂透會不會崩盤啊？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們這個部分才請調查局去做調查。"],["羅委員智強：我跟部長說，檢調當然要去查，可是所謂抽獎的整個流程，你事前沒有掌握，然後事後的報告，你寫的這種狀況，我覺得就是提油救火嘛！網路上評價這個報告叫莊孝維報告啊！你知道嗎？你根本沒有辦法修補你財政部的公信力啊！什麼叫做沒有按照一般隨機抽獎的模式？他可以後台自己去調高所謂積極參加者，我就問嘛！什麼叫積極參加者？到底收集多少張發票叫積極參加者？"],["莊部長翠雲：針對這部分，我們去檢視他的程式以後，我們誠實的去呈現，也就是跟一般認為這種隨機抽獎的，我們非常誠實去呈現這個部分，也請檢調去調查。"],["羅委員智強：部長，最後跟您說堤潰蟻穴啦，不管是我們的發票首獎1,000萬元，或是動輒幾億的大樂透跟所謂的威力彩等這些公益彩券，其實人民之所以願意買只有一個原因啦！我相信政府的公信力，我覺得政府不會搞我嘛！一定是公平公正嘛！可是今天如果財政部自己主辦的抽獎活動，大家覺得你不公平、不公正，我當然就開始對政府產生懷疑啊！我跟部長不客氣地講，當我上個禮拜質詢這個題目的時候，底下留言一堆都是開始質疑什麼？公益彩券啊！我們當然不樂見這種情形，可是財政部這種事情不能再發生好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，不能讓它再發生，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅智強委員。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐委員不在。","接著請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}