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權責是在行政院是在行政院嗎核定權是在行政院所以這個人是你提上去的還是行政院交辦下來的當然這邊是由我們財政部簽辦的"},{"start":313.123,"end":341.203,"text":"是你簽辦上去的嘛那你跟大家解釋一下你當初為什麼會簽呂政章上去我們想對這個部分對他個人的相關的經濟力我們都有所了解是所以你了解而已會就提一個沒有財經背景的之前沒有辦法幹農業金庫的董作可以幹台灣金聯的董作所以我才請教你嘛台灣金聯的董作這個位置重不重要嘛如果重要的話我們的財政部啊把它當兒戲喔"},{"start":343.314,"end":364.011,"text":"我們是沒有把他當兒戲的如果沒有把他當兒戲的話幹了三天就下來部長會不會覺得很遺憾他不應該辭應該繼續幹下去我想他個人在辭職的理由在說明書裡面都有說到了我們尊重他個人對啊你找了一個人只幹了三天就不幹了你不會覺得很丟臉嗎你們當初在選這個人的時候有慎重嗎"},{"start":369.875,"end":397.17,"text":"你說是你簽上去的嘛簽了幹了三天就下台財政部都不用負責今天你如果說是卓榮泰決定的那卓榮泰負責嘛但你剛剛說什麼是你簽上去的啊所以我才請教你人怎麼選的嘛你人怎麼選的幹了三天以後就下台部長你有沒有什麼話想說你從這件事情裡面你有沒有得到任何的教訓"},{"start":398.511,"end":426.824,"text":"還是這一次人事的作業財政部的作業完備、完整、專業他幹三天就下台是我們國家的損失部長你從這一次的事件當中到底得到了什麼教訓、學到了什麼我想委員您說的也很清楚當然我們在用人上是要謹慎沒有錯好再一次一個主席站起來了現在他辭職以後這個位置懸缺嘛"},{"start":427.626,"end":449.94,"text":"目前是由總經理代理是是是那我會一直代理下去嗎當然這個部分我們會另外做考量對我只講一件事啦我希望喔這次重新任命的時候財政部簽出來的人是要真的有專業讓社會幸福的人不要用政治酬庸的方式啦"},{"start":450.973,"end":475.069,"text":"找一個莫名其妙的人上去啊到時候社會大反彈啊我希望這一次財政部的人事作業啊真的要慎重啊不要犯一樣的錯誤 可以嗎是的 謝謝委員好 謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員接著我們請張智倫、張智倫、張智倫委員不在胡坤祺、胡坤祺、胡坤祺委員不在接著我們請"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1522,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時59分）謝謝主席，第一位是不是可以麻煩有請財政部莊部長？"],["主席：財政部莊部長。"],["黃委員國昌：然後第二位土銀何董事長。"],["主席：好，土銀董事長。"],["黃委員國昌：第三位第一金控邱董事長。"],["主席：好，第一金控邱董事長。"],["黃委員國昌：第四位合作金庫林董事長。"],["主席：好，合作金庫。"],["黃委員國昌：然後是臺灣中小企銀劉董事長。"],["主席：好，臺灣中小企銀劉董事長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長、各位董事長，因為時間的關係就不一一問候。首先請合庫董事長，本來合庫派去台灣金聯的法派是施俊吉。"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["黃委員國昌：後來換成一位呂先生。"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["黃委員國昌：這是誰要你換的？"],["林董事長衍茂：報告委員，因為這個是公股事業機構裡面的聯繫事項，國庫署有跟我們通知。"],["黃委員國昌：上面有很多董事長來，每家銀行幾乎都有法派到台灣金聯去。"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["黃委員國昌：所以你們法派到底是誰去當董事這件事情是由財政部直接指揮，對不對？"],["林董事長衍茂：董事長的核定權是在行政院，董事的法派是銀行這裡。"],["黃委員國昌：所以我就具體的問你，合庫把施俊吉換下來，施俊吉本來是你們合庫的法派嘛。"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["黃委員國昌：是財政部通知你把他換下來的，是嗎？"],["林董事長衍茂：國庫署。"],["黃委員國昌：好，國庫署通知你換下來的時候有給理由嗎？有告訴你為什麼要把他換下來嗎？請董事長回答。"],["林董事長衍茂：國庫署告訴我們的時候是沒有敘明理由。"],["黃委員國昌：他沒有敘明理由？"],["林董事長衍茂：因為按照公股事業管理的部分，如果說超過68歲的時候，應該是……"],["黃委員國昌：我們來看一下，老實講，我們國家的制度有一點畸形，法人董事這個制度本身在公司法裡面有很多討論，但我們尊重既有的制度，就按照既有的制度來談，這個法人董事是你們合庫派的嗎？"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["黃委員國昌：好，請教一下合庫，針對台灣金聯這幾年的營運表現，合庫作為派出法人董事，派出的法人董事榮任董事長，你覺得他的績效如何？"],["林董事長衍茂：他的部分我們每一年都有進行考核。"],["黃委員國昌：你覺得他的績效如何？"],["林董事長衍茂：如果是按照他這幾年的績效來看是維持相對的穩定。"],["黃委員國昌：它的EPS看起來，老實講我有去看你們合庫的EPS，你們合庫的EPS也沒有比人家高多少，我說的沒有錯吧！"],["林董事長衍茂：沒有錯，我們一年大概一點多。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！這樣子的績效表現，毫無預警被換下來，換一位姓呂的先生。我請教一下部長，台灣金聯歷任的董事長有哪一位是沒有財金背景的？"],["莊部長翠雲：歷任的董事長當然有好幾位。"],["黃委員國昌：是、是、是，有哪幾位沒有財金背景，請說給大家聽。"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有財金背景……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有財金背景的。"],["莊部長翠雲：因為我大概知道的是最近的幾位。"],["黃委員國昌：最近的幾位都沒有財金背景？"],["莊部長翠雲：應該是有吧！"],["黃委員國昌：應該是有？"],["莊部長翠雲：應該是有。"],["黃委員國昌：來、來、來，我給您看，您不用背，我把台灣金聯歷任的董事長全部都列在上面，我全部都把他列在上面，歷任董事長沒有財金背景的有兩位，一位是林美珠，我們前總統的親戚，當過勞動部部長，部長，你知不知道他幹了幾天下臺？"],["莊部長翠雲：1天吧。"],["黃委員國昌：1天嘛，現在這位呂先生是第二位，為什麼我把他們全部列出來？台灣金聯是我們每一個銀行要派法人董事，接受財政部的命令，共同撐起來的一家公司，給他當董事長，只要有政治酬庸，下場就像今天這個樣子，讓所有國人看得瞠目結舌，國營事業拿來當酬庸已經讓人沒有辦法接受了，結果竟然當兒戲！竟然當兒戲！上任以後3天就辭職，所以台灣金聯的董事長看起來不是很重要嘛，台灣金聯的董事長這個位置重要嗎？部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：每一家公司的董事長當然都是重要的。"],["黃委員國昌：如果重要的話，幹了3天就辭職耶。"],["莊部長翠雲：我想他的辭職書的內容，他也都有說明了。"],["黃委員國昌：呂政璋他政治上面的背景，之前記者會都講過，我就不多說了，他的任命恐怕也不是部長你可以決定的，是誰決定要用呂政璋的？部長，是您決定的嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個人事案的核定權責是在行政院。"],["黃委員國昌：是在行政院嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：核定權是在行政院。"],["黃委員國昌：所以這個人是你提上去的，還是行政院交辦下來的？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然是由我們財政部簽辦的。"],["黃委員國昌：是你簽辦上去的嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["黃委員國昌：你跟大家解釋一下當初為什麼會簽呂政璋上去？"],["莊部長翠雲：對這個部分，對他個人相關的經資歷，我們都有所了解。"],["黃委員國昌：是，所以你了解以後就提一個沒有財金背景的，之前沒有辦法幹農業金庫的董座，可以幹台灣金聯的董座？所以我才請教你，台灣金聯的董座這個位置重不重要？如果重要的話，我們的財政部把它當兒戲喔。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們是沒有把它當兒戲的。"],["黃委員國昌：如果沒有把它當兒戲的話，幹了3天就下來欸，部長，你會不會覺得很遺憾，他不應該辭，應該繼續幹下去？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想他個人辭職的理由在說明書裡面都有說到了，我們尊重他個人。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！你找了一個人，只幹了3天就不幹了，你不會覺得很丟臉嗎？你們當初在選這個人的時候有慎重嗎？你說是你簽上去的嘛，簽了一個幹了3天就下臺，財政部都不用負責？今天你如果說是卓榮泰決定的，那卓榮泰負責嘛，但你剛剛說什麼？是你簽上去的啊！所以我才請教你人怎麼選的嘛，你人怎麼選的？幹了3天以後就下臺，部長，你有沒有什麼話想說？你從這件事情裡面有沒有得到任何教訓？還是這次人事的作業、財政部的作業完備、完整、專業？他幹3天就下臺是我們國家的損失，部長，你從這次事件當中到底得到了什麼教訓、學到了什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想委員您說得也很清楚，當然我們在用人上是要謹慎，沒有錯。"],["黃委員國昌：好，因為主席站起來了，現在他辭職以後，這個位置懸缺嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：目前是由總經理代理。"],["黃委員國昌：是、是、是，那會一直代理下去嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然這個部分我們會另外做考量。"],["黃委員國昌：我只講一件事啦，我希望這次重新任命的時候，財政部簽出來的人是要真的有專業，讓社會信服的人，不要用政治酬庸的方式，找了一個莫名其妙的人上去，到時候社會大反彈，我希望這次財政部的人事作業真的要慎重，不要犯一樣的錯誤，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員。接著我們請張智倫、張智倫、張智倫委員不在。","傅崐萁、傅崐萁、傅崐萁委員不在。","接著我們請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}